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Joy Behar Page

Sax, Drugs and Rock & Roll; Susie Q & A; Obama Administration Attacks Fox News, Nevada Takes on Harry Reid, Lily Tomlin.

Aired October 23, 2009 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Tonight on the "Weekend Wind Up," the decider is going to put his money where his foot usually is, in his mouth. George W. Bush takes a gig as a motivational speaker.

Then Clarence Clemmons Springsteen`s main man in the E Street Band will be here to talk about his new book.

And Ernestine is the strip; the fabulous Lily Tomlin joins me to discuss her new show opening in Las Vegas.

All this and more.

Welcome to the "Weekend Wind-Up." I`m joined by comedian Nick Dipaolo, comedian Carol Leifer, who is also author of the book, "When you Lie about your Age the Terrorists Win" and "People" magazine senior editor Galina Espinoza. Ok, first welcome to the show.

CAROL LEIFER, COMEDIAN/AUTHOR: Thanks Joy.

NICK DIPAOLO, COMEDIAN: Hi.

BEHAR: The first story is about this balloon boy, that everybody covered it this week, it was all over the media, right?

DIPAOLO: What happened?

BEHAR: You know the story. Don`t let me go over it again. I have a headache from it.

Now they`re saying that the wife didn`t really know. That`s the latest; that she was like the (INAUDIBLE) of it, not really aware.

LEIFER: There`s your reference.

BEHAR: What do you think?

LEIFER: Well, I think the whole thing is an insult to people who work long and hard to get on TV like Tori Spelling and the Kardashians.

BEHAR: You`re right.

GALINA ESPINOZA, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: And just like Paris Hilton.

LEIFER: Yes, these people have really been in the trenches and...

DIPAOLO: She`s right.

BEHAR: Yes, you think so too?

DIPAOLO: I`ve been telling jokes to drunks for 20 years and all I have to do is tie my nephew`s leg to a box kite and call the cops?

BEHAR: He was kind of creative in a certain, weird sort of way.

GALINA ESPINOZA, SENIOR EDITOR, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: He was a mad genius...

BEHAR: Yes.

ESPINOZA: ...definitely, he was also very controlling those, if you saw the "Wife Swap" episode, there was a lot of fix of anger going on this. You could almost believe that maybe she was just too scared to even question.

LEIFER: Right.

BEHAR: He has a history of violence this guy. Here`s a sample of his short temper from ABC`s "Wife Swap."

BEHAR: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD HEENE, BALLOON BOY`S FATHER: Mayumi starts a project, and she finished it and you suck.

MAYUMI HEENE, BALLOON BOY`S MOTHER: I only have one word to say, loser.

R. HEENE: What`s with the hair cut?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don`t you not be so obnoxious? Your kids are picking that up.

R. HEENE: Your kids are (BLEEP) just like you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: He`s lovely man.

LEIFER: Yes.

DIPAOLO: That`s considered getting mad today?

LEIFER: You would think there would be a couple that would make Jon and Kate look like Ozzie and Harriet?

BEHAR: Well, don`t you think she should divorce him now? It`s enough. If in fact she didn`t know anything. She made the 911 call.

DIPAOLO: But what about the kids, joy? Who`s going to buy the kites for the kids?

BEHAR: How much therapy are these kids going to need? How much Prozac is that little...

DIPAOLO: Maybe they probably have a deal for a reality show. We`ll have a generation of nit wits for the next 20 years to watch because of this guy and his shallow wife that he met in acting class in L.A., by the way. .

BEHAR: Oh, is that where he met her?

DIPAOLO: I just made that up.

BEHAR: The 911 call, she sounded like Meryl Streep on it. She was so sincere and she meant it. So maybe she did mean it, maybe she`s not that good an actress, she meant it. Is that possible?

DIPAOLO: Are we talking about the balloon story or the Steve Phillips?

LEIFER: She had to know. Come on.

DIPAOLO: She was in on it. BEHAR: Let`s change the subject. .

George W. Bush, remember him.

DIPAOLO: Sure.

BEHAR: One of the most inarticulate presidents we have ever had?

DIPAOLO: Yes. Go ahead.

BEHAR: He`s going to be a motivational speaker. He and Laura are going on the road, like you, like a comedian.

DIPAOLO: Houston.

BEHAR: They`re going to Houston. I mean he and Laura are going on the road and they`re going to do motivational speeches. I think that they`re going to do three of them and they`re making $500,000.

What do you think about that? Isn`t this like the Menendez brothers being family counselors? It`s ridiculous.

DIPAOLO: let`s say your company is doing too well, you want your sales to go down, you bring him in.

LEIFER: I think being a motivational speaker is a lot like asking Adam Lambert from "American Idol" who he likes in the Patriots-Steelers game.

BEHAR: That stark reference went right over my head. I have no idea.

The seminar includes Rudy Giuliani and Colin Powell. I thought Colin Powell didn`t hang around with these thugs anymore.

DIPAOLO: Here`s the thing. Being a greatest speaker is overrated as far as presidents go. Because we have one now and he`s not doing a thing. The best speaker ever. Great speech maker ever and he stinks.

BEHAR: I have to take issue with that. First of all, Bush did too many things that were bad, let`s face it. I would rather have someone who doesn`t do anything, oh, let`s invade a country, let`s take your rights away. Let`s torture people.

DIPAOLO: what rights have been taken away? No rights have been taken away.

ESPINOZA: But he was great at selling. He wanted a war and he got the war that he wanted. So he`s great...

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Let`s go have a war, that`s a good motivation.

ESPINOZA: See? He sold all of us. Right?

DIPAOLO: That was just out of the blue. We just had that war for no reason, Joy? We`re going to go back to that again.

BEHAR: You know it`s true. Let`s not even -- let`s not revisit it.

LEIFER: Well, I hear the first speech is supposed to be in Texas. So if I were the bordering states, I would be a little worried.

BEHAR: Why?

LEIFER: That he might invade for no reason? Like Iraq.

BEHAR: What about this other case that we have been talking about this week? This sex scandal between this ESPN analyst, baseball analyst, Steve Phillips, he`s having an affair with a 22-year-old assistant.

DIPAOLO: In a balloon.

BEHAR: No.

BEHAR: The guy has a wife and four kids. Just to bring you up to it. You know, when are these husbands going to learn?

LEIFER: Let`s ask you now? What is wrong with these guys, these powerful guys that destroy it all? Why can`t they put a post it on your zipper, keep it in your pants?

DIPAOLO: He`s going to lose a house and the woman he`s been sleeping with for 20 years. What a loss.

Espinoza: Well his network is saying he`s on a leave of absence from ESPN and he could lose his job.

DIPAOLO: And that`s not a bad thing either.

ESPINOZA: For us maybe. But for him I say...

(CROSS TALK)

DIPAOLO: I love how we discuss this like it`s a monolithic thing; it`s just men who cheat on their wives.

ESPINOZA: Are you feeling picked on?

DIPAOLO: I have always been faithful to my wife. I have slipped up twice in 5 years. That`s faithful.

LEIFER: But I love that the other woman is very -- was described in "The Post" as schlubby.

DIPAOLO: By other women too.

ESPINOZA: Here`s another. "She kind of looks like the Philly fanatic in shorts."

(CROSS TALK)

LEIFER: I think it makes it a little different when the other woman is a little bit schlubby.

BEHAR: What does it mean?

LEIFER: I think that he doesn`t. I think people come down on them harder. It`s like if she were a very attractive woman, hey, ok.

DIPAOLO: Some guys like girls who look like Jack Black. But maybe the wife wasn`t meeting his emotional needs because it obviously wasn`t a physical thing.

BEHAR: I think he had an affair in the old days working with the Mets.

Please, he`s a dog this guy. But even Letterman`s girlfriend was not like a beautiful girl and even his wife, she`s a regular-looking person.

LEIFER: Yes.

BEHAR: No glamazon.

LEIFER: But he`s like a crazy stalker and I like how the Glenn Close from "Fatal Attraction" has become like Suzanne B. Anthony of female stars.

BEHAR: That`s true.

LEIFER: They all rally around here.

BEHAR: She actually told me, on another show that I do, "The View" she said that women all over have said to her, thank you, that has really controlled my husband. She`s just the greatest.

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: This guy Hundley, I mean, the woman Hundley.

DIPAOLO: She got it right the first time.

BEHAR: You got me so crazy that she`s so not attractive, I think she`s a man. She allegedly left creepy voicemails for Phillips and his wife and even paid a visit to their house which led to this 911 call from his wife.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Wilton 911 what`s your emergency.

MARNI PHILLIPS, STEVE PHILLIPS` WIFE: Please hurry and come to (BLEEP)

I have a crazy woman who is involved with my husband and she has comes to my house to harm me and my children.

911 OPERATOR: Ok, ma`am is she outside?

PHILLIPS: She`s pulling down my hill right now. She is in a blue Prius. She just pulled past me. She`s pulling down my driveway on (BLEEP) street. It`s a blue car. It`s a blue sedan.

911 OPERATOR: Ok, I`m sending officers right now. What`s your name ma`am?

PHILLIPS: Please hurry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Ok was that an overreaction or what? She did have a woman in her driveway and she looked a little dangerous.

ESPINOZA: And we have all seen "Fatal Attraction" as we`ve talked about. You don`t know what she`s there for.

DIPAOLO: She`s taking my kid to a roller-coaster ride.

LEIFER: The bunny is in the pot, come quickly.

BEHAR: So this is a natural instinct for the wife to just be petrified of the other woman when she crashes into her house?

DIPAOLO: For the woman with an 18-inch neck, yes, I`d be nervous.

I`ve got Danny Devito in my driveway.

BEHAR: Phillips` fellow ESPN baseball analyst, Carl Reynolds (ph) was fired in 2006 after being accused of sexually harassing a co-worker.

Galina, why would Phillips take the risk if a colleague was fired for a similar act?

ESPINOZA: I think men -- these kinds of men don`t think they`re going to get caught. They think they`re above it all. These kinds, we know you have established you`re not one of those kind of men. You said you`ve been faithful.

His wife had already tolerated another affair. He had been accused of this before. She stayed with him. He probably thought, she`s in it I have nothing to lose. This isn`t going to happen to me.

BEHAR: It seems like their powerful positions is what`s annoying.

DIPAOLO: This doesn`t speak well for men but you know women who want to have it all which a family, a career, and kid but this is for men.

But this is having it all for men.

BEHAR: Oh, I see.

DIPAOLO: You know what I mean? Having a young girl on the side, the wife at home; that`s having it all. I`m not saying it`s right, but I`m just telling you.

LEIFER: But what about the old-fashioned way? Hair plugs and a Porsche, doesn`t that sound horrible?

BEHAR: Yes, I know. Why can`t they go through their midlife crisis just becoming shopaholics.

DIPAOLO: We can`t do anything right. You`d hate us no matter what.

BEHAR: We don`t hate you. We love you so much and we thank you for coming on the show. You`re so funny, we love you.

And if you`re in Texas, Nick Dipaolo will be at the Houston Improv October 29th to November 1st.

Up next, Bruce Springsteen`s big man Clarence Clemons; what a show.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: One morning in 1972, he kissed his wife and kids goodbye and headed out on the road with Bruce Springsteen and they have been together off and on for over 35 years. That`s a marriage. Just one chapter in the extraordinary life of Rock & Roll saxophonist and long-time member of the legendary E Street Band, Clarence Clemons. His new memoir is "Big Man, Real Life and Tall Tales." Welcome to the show Clarence.

CLARENCE CLEMONS, SAXOPHONIST: Thank you so much Joy.

BEHAR: So nice to have you here.

It sounds like the two of you -- your ex-girlfriend thought you and Bruce were gay, is that a fact?

CLEMONS: Yes. That`s a fact. From the first time we saw each other, we stayed together for two weeks. We were just inseparable.

BEHAR: You were in love?

CLEMONS: I was. I still am in love. But it`s a masculine kind of love; it`s not a sexual love. It`s beyond sex.

BEHAR: What do you love most? Is it his eyes? What is it?

CLEMONS: His dedication to what he does, it`s in his belief in what he`s doing and the energy that he creates, still is in the whole band, you know.

BEHAR: Yes. He works very hard.

CLEMONS: He works hard.

BEHAR: And I`m sure you did all those years.

CLEMONS: Yes, yes. We still do.

BEHAR: In the book, you say that you started to -- you talk about your love life a lot. How many exactly women have you had over the years in the E Street Band?

CLEMONS: Marriages or...

BEHAR: Just having them for one night.

CLEMONS: How many he had? You`re asking about me?

BEHAR: You.

We don`t want to say anything him because he`s married.

CLEMONS: Well, I`m married too.

BEHAR: But, I mean, you do talk about the women in the book?

CLEMONS: Yes, I do and I have had my share of good times and it was fun. But now I have really found the person I want to spend the rest of my life with.

BEHAR: You do?

CLEMONS: Yes.

BEHAR: Why? What`s she like?

CLEMONS: She`s young and she`s very...

BEHAR: How young, Clarence?

CLEMONS: She`s younger than me.

BEHAR: How much younger?

CLEMONS: I think I`m older than her parents.

BEHAR: You`re older than her parents? That`s always kind of hairy when you go for Thanksgiving.

CLEMONS: We talk about it. We laugh about it. But they`re Russians so they don`t speak English.

BEHAR: They`re Russians? Oh good. So they don`t speak English.

CLEMONS: It makes it a lot easier.

BEHAR: They don`t even know what`s going on, probably.

CLEMONS: She`s very mature for her age. And she`s a very mature woman and she`s helped me through so much. She`s been with me through the hard times, went through this whole operation. Every day...

BEHAR: Tell me about that.

CLEMONS: Yes, I had both of my knees replaced and they cut off my legs and to straighten my legs. And it`s a very painful thing I`ve been through. And she was with me from day one -- the day I went to the hospital, every day she was by my side.

BEHAR: That`s nice.

CLEMONS: She slept every night with me on an extra bed decide me. Because I did know I couldn`t do without her. She was there for me.

BEHAR: You were married five times before, right?

CLEMONS: My ex-wives and I are all good friends.

BEHAR: You`re all friendly.

CLEMONS: Yes. We`re all one big family.

BEHAR: That`s nice.

When you were in the band with Bruce, I read that he had two rules for the band, no drugs and be on time. What do you think was harder to stick with?

CLEMONS: Being on time I guess was harder.

BEHAR: And you say that Bruce`s wife Patty likes you? Is that true?

CLEMONS: Yes, we`re friends.

BEHAR: You`re friends with Patty?

CLEMONS: Yes.

BEHAR: Why, was there something that maybe she did?

CLEMONS: I don`t know. People thought there was some animosity because Bruce and I were so close, same thing. You know, same old, same old.

BEHAR: Maybe she thought you were luring the young groupies away from her towards Bruce.

CLEMONS: Yes, I don`t know.

BEHAR: If I were married to a guy who was on the road like you guys were, I would be very nervous.

CLEMONS: If you got a man like Bruce or a man like me, you don`t have to worry about that kind of thing because we`re so dedicated to our music and what we`re doing is so important to me.

BEHAR: I know that but you had time to have five wives meanwhile.

CLEMONS: Yes. Well, I was searching. That was like a job, just looking for the right one to share your life with.

BEHAR: You also had an interesting -- well, you talked about your knees. But the other thing I saw in the book that was interesting to me, Red Foxx, the comedian Red Foxx, he told you to watch out for Bruce because he was a white guy?

That`s interesting.

CLEMONS: That was Red Foxx.

BEHAR: Was he being funny or did he mean that?

CLEMONS: He was being funny. He was being funny.

BEHAR: Oh, I see.

CLEMONS: He was like a lot of the older comedians and actresses, actors, they have this kind of thing of not trusting people or anybody not trusting him or anybody, black or white.

BEHAR: Well, Red Foxx lost all his money so he didn`t...

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Now, you know, Bruce has been on countless magazine covers, you see him everywhere. But this was a recent one that caught my eye. He was on the cover of AARP magazine.

CLEMONS: They did it when he was 60. His 60 birthday, they celebrated his 60th birthday.

BEHAR: Here he is.

How did he feel about that being on AARP on his 60th birthday?

CLEMONS: It`s something to be proud of. But you just do it.

I`m a lot older than him and I`m still doing it. I`m (INAUDIBLE) the gray foxes.

BEHAR: I went to see the Rolling Stones in concert like a couple of years ago. And they`re all almost close to 70 at this point. The tickets were very expensive, but with the senior citizen discount, it was pretty good.

BEHAR: Ok Clarence. Thanks very much for coming on.

CLEMONS: Thank you so much for having me here.

BEHAR: I love you.

Back with comedian and actress Susie Essman in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Earlier this week, one of my best friends and the wonderful comedian Susie Essman stopped by. I had to ask her how Larry David thought she`d make such a great shrew for her role on "Curb Your Enthusiasm."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSIE ESSMAN, COMEDIAN: He saw me on the Rose -- he was casting the part of Jeff`s wife who he wanted to have a certain facility with language in the character. He saw me on the Rose and he called me up and gave me the part.

The interesting thing about that is, I almost wasn`t on the Rose because comedy, the Friars Club, which I has made my bones as at the Friars Club with all their events with all those...

BEHAR: It`s not easy.

ESSMAN: Not easy.

BEHAR: Because you`re really dealing with some very heavy duty comics over there. And they don`t really love women.

ESSMAN: Legends.

BEHAR: Legendary, of course they were all drooling, but still...

ESSMAN: They were still legends -- Alan King, whatever. So, anyway, the Friars Club fought for me to be on the Rose. Comedy Central did not want me on the Rose because I was not their demographic.

BEHAR: Who was their demographic?

ESSMAN: Who knows?

BEHAR: Somebody who`s not funny.

ESSMAN: A 12-year-old boy, I don`t know who their demographic is. And the Friars Club fought for me to be on the Rose. And to me that was all about how -- both of us -- how we did our careers for many years. Which is just -- you keep showing up. Everybody was knocking us down and knocking us down, but you just keep showing up and showing up and doing good work and doing good work.

BEHAR: That is the key.

ESSMAN: And sooner or later...

BEHAR: And that took you out of your depression? Stand up?

ESSMAN: Yes. But that was already 2 years before that.

BEHAR: But still, you had a lot of therapy. So let`s not pretend that didn`t help a lot.

ESSMAN: No, the analysis...

BEHAR: Yes. Both of us have been in a lot of therapy.

And their life just opened up for you after years of having difficulties and then you got married recently at the advanced age of...

ESSMAN: 53.

BEHAR: Oh, you`re saying it. Ok.

ESSMAN: 53. That was the whole thing. I have a whole chapter about that in the book.

When they wanted to put the wedding announcement in "The New York Times" they said they`re going to have to say your age. I thought about it for a little while and I was like, "You know what? The hell with it, put my age. I don`t give a damn anymore."

And then it became incredibly liberating because it said -- in "The Times" it said -- the bride, 53 is keeping her name. In every story "People" magazine, they all picked it up and they all said Essman, 53. Why was that relevant to the story, I would like to know.

BEHAR: Because "People" magazine is like that.

Now before you go because I promoted this, you must tell people how they know that their husband is gay.

ESSMAN: Well, I have a chapter called, "Gay, Not Gay, Should Be Gay."

BEHAR: Just give us the top three...

ESSMAN: He owns five cats and they`re all named after characters in Barbara Stanwyck movies. He spends an inordinate amount of time worried about pillow shams (ph). He rolls his eyes and says "whatever" on at least three occasion occasions.

BEHAR: What about the pictures -- the photos on the...

ESSMAN: That`s the whole thing.

In Hollywood they say if a guy has photos of a family facing in, then he`s straight. If they are facing out, he`s gay. I say if he has the pictures of family facing the pictures of Mario Lopez and Brad Pitt then he`s definitely gay.

BEHAR: That`s the tip for the day.

ESSMAN: Exactly.

BEHAR: Ok thank you.

ESSMAN: That`s it?

BEHAR: That`s it. It goes so fast. The book is called, "What Would Susie Say?" She knows everything.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BEHAR: I must take a break and check the pictures on Steve`s desk.

Up next, President Obama and his fight with the fringe right. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: The biggest news in politics this week has been the Obama administration`s "attack" on Fox News. Earlier this week I got a chance to ask comedian and actress Janeane Garofalo and conservative commentator S.E. Cupp about that very thing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Let me start with you, Jeanine, do you think it`s a good idea?

JANEANE GAROFALO, ACTRESS AND COMEDIAN: Well, I don`t think that he`s picking a fight. And I wouldn`t characterize that as blasting. He seemed very reserved there. But, I would say Fox News in general has always been very unkind to any Democrat, or -- whether they be in the White House or outside of it. I would agree with that. I don`t se the value in Fox News and going on Fox News for those people. It`s a very...

BEHAR: You don`t see the value?

GAROFALO: No, no, no I don`t see the value. There`s no reason for somebody who has something substantive to talk about to go talk to Hannity or go talk to Bill O`Reilly or "Fox and Friends" or really any of their very obvious propaganda...

BEHAR: Machine.

GAROFALO: Machine. Now, having said that most mainstream news networks are wanting. Most mainstream, or if not all corporate mainstream news entities, are subpar, and tell versions of stories. But Fox, I think, with Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch has very clear mission statement.

BEHAR: Well, some people say MSNBC has a mission statement from the left, I think you would agree with that, right S.E.?

S.E. CUPP, CONSERVATIVE BLOGGER: Yeah, and to Janeane`s point, I think they all suffer from some kind of bias. But the value of going on Fox or an MSNBC is that you`re speaking to a huge swathe of the country and in Obama`s case, this is the very demographic that he needs right now to get on board with health care and Afghanistan.

BEHAR: Do you think that they`ll ever come on board with Obama over at Fox? Those viewers? I don`t even think they would ever come on board.

CUPP: Well, if the Obama administration would stop condescending and insulting and ignoring those people who don`t like a public option, then I think, yeah, they`d be more interested in what he has to say, but they don`t like being dissed, which is kind of like what the White House is doing right now.

GAROFALO: I would disagree. There`s no condescension coming from the White House and I would say the majority of the country supports a public option. Fox`s whole reason for being, if you will, is to obstruct and to try and make inroads with the average Fox viewer is a fool`s errand. There`s no way any of those people are going to go...

BEHAR: I know, as comedians, we don`t go in front of audiences that hate us after a while.

CUPP: Oh, sure.

GAROFALO: But it does happen. But I deliberately do it.

BEHAR: No, but after a while, you just say no. OK, former Bush advisor and current Fox News contributor, Karl Rove got his two cents in. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: This is an administration that`s getting very arrogant and slippery in its dealings with people and if you dare to oppose them, they`re going to come hard at you and cut your legs off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GAROFALO: Talking about the Bush administration?

BEHAR: No, talk about the pot the kettle. I mean, come on, even S.E., have to admit that this is complete hypocrisy on Karl Rove`s part.

CUPP: No, I don`t think so. I think he`s absolutely right, you don`t silence the opposition. I mean, that`s just not politically a good move. Honestly, it really doesn`t make a whole lot of sense for Obama to completely sensor an entire demographic or an entire media organization that speaks to a large demographic.

BEHAR: But Karl Rove is responsible for possibly, I mean allegedly, firing the the United States attorneys who are not loyal to Bush. So that`s really silencing a whole group of people, isn`t that very similar?

CUPP: Well, well, there are some nuances to that story that I don`t think we have time to really delineate, but, you know, here? But no, I think, it doesn`t matter who`s saying it, I think Karl Rove is right, I think this is a politically silly move. It doesn`t look presidential, it doesn`t make the president look serious, it makes him look a little whiney.

GAROFALO: Of course we`re going to disagree with each other. I mean, there`s just no two ways around that we will take opposing sides of this. Karl Rove is the master of silence and yes, he is responsible for the attorney general firings without any nuance in addition to attacking any dissenters for the Bush administration. But there is no censoring going on. Then saying they won`t go on that show, some of them won`t go on that show has nothing to do with censoring, It`s that -- like I said, Fox News is a complete propaganda outlet. That is not to say that other outlets are good or -- in fact they should all turn in their SEC license.

BEHAR: They seem to have the intention to be obscuring and obstructing the Obama administration. I don`t think that that was the intention of CNN or MSNBC.

CUPP: During the bush administration? I think it was. I think it was.

BEHAR: I think they were critical of it, but fo course there were a lot of things to criticize, really a lot.

CUPP: I think Fox was critical of the Obama administration in a way, but as a reaction. It`s filling a void. It`s as a reaction to the lack of criticism, the lack of any vetting...

BEHAR: But fine, then don`t call it "fair and balanced."

CUPP: But, you`re not talking about two different things. There are opinion shows on Fox News, like Hannity and O`Reilly. And then there`s hard news. I don`t think anyone would call Sheppard Smith`s show unbiased. It`s straight news reporting.

BEHAR: Well, the only one I would go along with is Chris Wallace`s show. I think that his show, he could have gone on Chris Wallace`s show. I think that Chris tries to be fair and balanced and he has Juan Williams, a Democrat on the panel. Well, then he has some other attack dogs.

But there`s fighting within the Democratic Party, as well. Progressives aren`t just taking on the president. They`re now taking on Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in Nevada. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m your typical swing voter, I voted for Republicans for president and I voted for President Obama. I also voted for Senator Harry Reid many times. But in 2010, I`ll only be voting on one issue. I`m watching to see if Harry Reid is strong and effective enough as a leader to pass a public health insurance option into law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: OK, since Reid is in trouble in Nevada and I think 52 percent of Nevadans are in favor of the public option. Is he going to be forced now to vote for that -- to push the public option?

GAROFALO: One would hope. I mean, he is -- I don`t understand why some Democrats like Harry Reid are being as obstructionist as the Republicans. When he is being weak, though, he should be called out. I agree with that. There`s nothing wrong with infighting among parties, it should be. There shouldn`t be anybody marching lockstep with one another.

BEHAR: It doesn`t look like the public option is going to get any kind of traction. The Baucus bill hasn`t got it in there and I`m wondering how the Democrats are going to do in 2010 if they don`t get it. What you think?

GAROFALO: Well, hopefully they would suffer for it, as they should. The public option should be in there and there should be, you know, like Grayson, is that his name, Alan Grayson, great guy, you know, that speaks with conviction and I don`t know why there aren`t more Democrats -- there`s a lot of great Democrats, but a lot of them are too weak in the face of...

BEHAR: Wussy. Wussy, Wussy. Wussy.

GAROFALO: That`s fine. Wussy`s fine.

BEHAR: And Harry Reid is wussy.

GAROFALO: Yeah, sure.

BEHAR: He`s a wuss.

GAROFALO: Yeah, I don`t like it and in the name of so-called bipartisanship, which is a farce, there is no need to pursue bipartisanship with a group of people that will have no interest in bipartisanship, and so yeah, he should be criticized.

CUPP: Well, I don`t know, you know, I think I agree bipartisanship is really a silly kind of goal. But at the same time, I...

BEHAR: Why do you think it`s a silly goal? Isn`t that the ideal?

CUPP: Politics are polarizing. I mean, these are incredibly important issues, people feel very passionate about them. Trying to come to consensus is watering down these issues. And no one wins when you try to please everyone. People should stick to their guns. And frankly in Nevada and I don`t know if this poll is entirely accurate, but if it is, if Nevada wants a public option, as much as I detest it, Harry Reid should vote for it. Absolutely he should represent his constituents.

BEHAR: OK, let me switch to Miss Sarah Palin, the media and Fox News darling. She`s in the news. She posted her resume on the social net working site LinkedIn. OK? Why does she do this? She`s looking for a job, right?

GAROFALO: Well, I guess that makes sense, then. You would, I guess us the -- being industrious and posting her resume.

BEHAR: But, she says that she`s governor. She`s writes "governor." She`s not governor anymore.

GAROFALO: Well, she was and that title lasts.

BEHAR: That ship has sailed.

GAROFALO: I don`t know, was it a joke. I mean was supposed to be funny?

BEHAR: No, are you kidding. I don`t think she has that great a sense of humor that she would pull something like he that. Do you?

CUPP: She`s unconventional. I think, you know, she`s on FaceBook a lot, she Twitters and she`s reaching out in every way she knows how. And people like to say she`s crazy, but she generally proves out to be crazy like a fox, so...

BEHAR: I don`t think she`s crazy at all.

CUPP: Oh, well there`s are people who routinely call her crazy and a whole host of other names.

BEHAR: Would you call her crazy, Janeane?

GAROFALO: No, I would just say she`s a kind of an intellectually incareous (ph) person with charisma.

BEHAR: That`s very well put. But you know, her favorability, popularity rates are going down. Is it possible that her 15 minutes are up?

CUPP: No way. I mean, no. No. No, she`s been out of the spotlight, a little bit, written her book.

BEHAR: Maybe that`s why she`s going this, to get herself back. Maybe she wants to be the next Paris Hilton.

CUPP: No, I think that`s a little cheap. I mean, Mitt Romney has been out of the spotlight and his favorability is down a little bit. And Mike huckabee`s is up because he`s on Fox News all the time. I think this sort of ebbs and flow and once her book comes out I think that the ratings will go up again.

BEHAR: People call me, you know, people just call me and say, do you think she`s actually going to have a shot at the presidency? I say, well, I lived through Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush and I never thought that those two mental midgets would ever become president and they did.

CUPP: Two of my heroes. Two of my absolute heroes.

GAROFALO: You`re such a young person and so bright. I`m hoping you`re doing an art installation project.

CUPP: That`s what people think, I must be joking, somehow.

GAROFALO: I`m praying that you are -- this is a very complex situation...

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: (INAUDIBLE) thank you, girls, thank you, ladies. I shouldn`t say girls. We`re not girls. We`re men. OK, back with more in a bit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who`s this?

LIILY TOMLIN,M ACTRESS: Hi, Dr. Heller, I`m Lindsay Thorn, I`m mag give`s supervise and she`s confused and about to get fired and we just need you to confirm for our records that you`re treating a man named David Williams.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your Medicare id number?

TOMLIN: Um, I`m not sure, we`re in the process of converting to the metric system.

BEHAR: Well, that was the brilliant Lily Tomlin in "Desperate Housewives." her new Vegas show "Not Playing with a Full Deck" begins November 10 at the MGM Grand. She joins me now.

So Lily, you`re like a Vegas girl now or what?

TOMLIN: Yeah, no, I -- years ago when everybody -- people went to Vegas to make big money, I wanted to go so badly for the money. But I couldn`t bring myself to do it. This is in the 70s, early 80s so I did a big TV special about going for the money, to sort of sublimate the desire. And it was called "Lily Sold Out," and because the (INAUDIBLE) I did character schtick with a message. I mean, that`s what we said in the special.

BEHAR: But, you do, kind of.

TOMLIN: Oh, yes, you`re probably right. So, and then anyway, I was doing this really high, artistic, pretentious thing off Broadway called "Seven Ages of a Woman, so then it`s all about me going to Vegas and corrupting it into a huge Vegas act, you know, motorcycle and diving into the tanks. So now I really am going to Vegas and I only wish I could dive in a tank and drive in on a motorcycle.

BEHAR: Call Bette Milder, she gets anything she wants. In fact Bette`s going to be there. You know, she`s there.

TOMLIN: I know, I`ve seen her there, of course.

BEHAR: Are you going to hang out with her. You`ll have fun.

TOMLIN: Yeah, no, I love Bette, I did a movie with Bette, "Big Business."

BEHAR: That`s right, "Big Business."

TOMLIN: Two of me made movie a movie with her, we were twins.

BEHAR: And the thing about it is that your work, just the body of work, is considered brilliant by so many people. And you always sort of always put it down in a way that you didn`t do it, that Jane did it, Jane Wagner, your long-time partner.

TOMLIN: Partner. Yeah, right. Well, Jane is much more brilliant than I am. But I do, I can potchkey with things and, but she brings a certain level to things, an elevated level.

BEHAR: Well, she`s written most of your shows, right?

TOMLIN: Well, most of them. She certainly wrote "The Search" I mean, that was the zenith for me, you know, "The Search," "The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe."

BEHAR: Right, yeah, even the title is intimidating.

TOMLIN: I know but this show is not. The show is very embracing, it embraces the human species.

BEHAR: That`s when you started screaming, "enough with the cake, stop talking about the cake."

TOMLIN: No, that`s "Appearing Nightly," no, that`s our first Broadway show, The teenager, right, but in "Search" of Lud and Marie are older and they`re grandparents, and they have -- extensively it`s a girl, their daughter`s granddaughter who`s in "The Search" Agnes Angst. But these things, you know, the characters evolve over, they grow older. Everyone grows older except Edith Ann. She stays six.

BEHAR: How long were you with Jane?

TOMLIN: For 38 years, 39 in March.

BEHAR: So, will you get married if California makes it legal?

TOMLIN: No, no, I mean, I certainly want gay people to be able to be married, absolutely.

BEHAR: If they want to.

TOMLIN: If they want to, yes.

BEHAR: Do you want to?

TOMLIN: I don`t want to.

BEHAR: Does she?

TOMLIN: No, it would. The wardrobe alone, Joy, is an ordeal and then I`d have to postpone the reception because Jane wouldn`t be there on time, she wouldn`t show up.

BEHAR: She`s like that. She`s a darling person.

TOMLIN: She is. She`s totally wonderful.

BEHAR: I love her, She`s a lovely person.

TOMLIN: But she`s a southern girl, she has no sense of time, but when she gets there, she`s so gracious and people see so little of her because she has no sense of or fear of social obligation. So, I go all the time and I`m like such an -- I`m like an old shoe. And then when they find out she`s coming, it`s like, you know, they elbow me aside to get to her.

BEHAR: She has no interest to be on camera, on stage?

TOMLIN: No. She was an actress too when she was a young girl and got brilliant reviews, she played Laura in "Glass Menagerie" at the Barter Theatre and the Gateway Playhouse that was the place, because she was from Tennessee, I mean the Barters in Virginia. But Connie Dewhurst, all kinds of people used to play there and she was an agenue (ph). But she`s very sensitive, she wouldn`t take the stuff you and I take in this was business.

BEHAR: It`s tough because there`s a lot of criticism. How do you deal with that? How do you deal with criticism?

TOMLIN: I just cry, cry, cry, cry, cry. I tell you a story, I auditioned once for -- remember when Renee Taylor and Joe Bologna wrote "Loves and Other Strangers" and it was going to be on Broadway and I had never done anything and Chuck Groeden directed it and I went up to the girl who, you know, her boyfriend comes over and for five minutes he tells her why they`re not going to get married and she just listens and then at the end, she says, "did you pick up your tux?" and so, I`ve never done anything. I go in for the audition. You can imagine what I did for five minutes. I must have done every -- to try to make sure they notice me. I didn`t have any sense of to be an actress just to listen and be in the moment. And Chuck pulled a chair up, later, I mean I know him very well and I`ve done a movie with him and everything, but he pulled up a chair and he says, honey, have you ever acted before?

BEHAR: Oh, how humiliating?

TOMLIN: Oh, I went in the phone booth and I cried.

BEHAR: How old were you? A kid?

TOMLIN: Not that young, no, no, because I was a late bloomer that`s why I look so well.

BEHAR: I`m a late bloomer too.

TOMLIN: Yeah, so I was probably, I was in my 20s, because I didn`t come to New York until I was about 20.

BEHAR: Yeah, it`s pretty bad, the criticism and the rejection.

TOMLIN: Oh, the rejection is terrible.

BEHAR: I don`t know how kids do it. Some of these young actors.

TOMLIN: And nowadays it`s even worse. But, I use to, I just block it out, sort of. But, I`m still scared when I go on stage. I`m still excited an nervous.

BEHAR: Still sense a little stage fright?

TOMLIN: Yeah. I want it to be glorious and I want to...

BEHAR: But, you`re supposed to be a little nervous.

TOMLIN: Sure, of course.

BEHAR: I mean, Carol Burnett, I read a story one time she said that one time she went out and she wasn`t nervous and she just bombed. She said she sort of let down her guard and it just wasn`t as good. You`ve to be a little scared. Even Lawrence Olivia had stage fright.

TOMLIN: Yeah, it`s natural. I mean, if you care about what you`re doing and you want the audience -- it`s like a blind date, you want it to be a great, wonderful experience.

BEHAR: I also think when you`re a performer art person, like we are, it`s like being a ballet dancer in the sense you don`t know how high you`re going to be able to leap that night.

TOMLIN: Right.

BEHAR: It`s just not in your hands to hold on to.

TOMLIN: You get inspiration or are suddenly in the zone and you`re just floating somewhere, you know? And you can just soar and you cannot soar.

BEHAR: Or you can get sore. We`ll be back with more from Lily Tomlin in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In 30 days for one glazed donut.

TOMLIN: A 59-cent donut. If it had been rock `n` roll she could have thrown sofas out the window. Hotel window, not even her own sofa, she could throw somebody else`s sofa out the window.

You don`t know what kind of passersby at the bottom, she could have been hitting people, it wouldn`t have mattered. But, when you were playing the Christian family audiences like we were, you so much as forget to pay for a damned donut, they throw you out like a piece of garbage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: That was a scene from "A Prairie Home Companion," the last film directed by the great Robert Altman. I`m back here with Lily Tomlin.

TOMLIN: Yeah, I was lucky enough to do five films that were associated with Bob.

BEHAR: "Nashville."

TOMLIN: "Nashville" was my first movie.

BEHAR: You were great in that. Did you have a crush on...

TOMLIN: I got nominated too.

TOMLIN: You did, that`s right. Did you -- everyone had a crush in Keith Carradine, because he was like so cool and cut up. And women love a guy like that who doesn`t pay attention to anybody.

BEHAR: It`s unfortunate, isn`t it?

TOMLIN: I know, it`s wrong, totally.

BEHAR: It`s wrong. But, you know, one of the things I read about you one time when you were a kid, you weren`t a good student, I take, it were you?

TOMLIN: No, but I was intuitively smart.

BEHAR: But, I can relate to something you said. You said, if that your hair didn`t look right, you I wouldn`t go to school.

TOMLIN: I didn`t. I stay -- out of three years, cumulatively I was absent one year in high school.

BEHAR: All those bad hair days?

TOMLIN: By the end of the day -- I was a cheerleader, so by the end of the week on Friday, my hair started to get in shape and I`d cheer the game and of course then I`d get in trouble. My picture would get in the school paper or something. But yeah, one year out of three years I was absent.

BEHAR: Wow. And "Laugh-In" -- we were talking about "Laugh-In" during the break. Now, who was mean on "Laugh-In?" There`s always somebody who`s nasty on those shows. There`s one person that everybody hates. Who was it?

TOMLIN: Not on our show.

BEHAR: No, everybody got along?

TOMLIN: The kids were all great. Yeah. Maybe -- I came in the third year.

BEHAR: Oh, so they hated them the first two years? I know which one it is.

TOMLIN: Who is it?

BEHAR: I`m not saying. It`s too mean. I`m not going to say.

TOMLIN: Was it one of the guys?

BEHAR: No.

TOMLIN: Rowan and Martin?

BEHAR: No, no, no.

TOMLIN: Someone else?

BEHAR: Someone else.

TOMLIN: I`m not even hip to it.

BEHAR: Is this new show you`re` doing in Vegas, is it all characters?

TOMLIN: Oh yeah, bunch of characters. And, and lots of, you know, it`s not like I`m doing a theater piece.

BEHAR: No.

TOMLIN: So it`s much more informal and fooling around.

BEHAR: Fooling around, so it doesn`t have the through line and organizing principle to it like your other shows?

TOMLIN: Yes. Art.

BEHAR: It has art. Oh, excuse me.

TOMLIN: Art and a deep commitment to the audience`s enjoyment.

BEHAR: Before we go, I just want to know, I want you to clear up something about Jane Wagner. Because she wrote that famous line that Ann Richards said about George Bush.

TOMLIN: Being born with a silver foot in this mouth.

BEHAR: Yeah, everybody thought Ann Richards said it, but Jane Wagner.

TOMLIN: Well, Jane did say it and she`s never really been credited with it. You know? But, Ann was a very good friend of ours and we were actually playing at the Kennedy Center in Washington and Ann was going to be the keynote speaker that year. And Jane was faxing lines to her and stuff and we sat down that Monday night. I was dark that night and, to watch the show and when they said -- we didn`t know what Ann would pick. That`s one of the lines she picked. And then it was like it exploded. Because we didn`t think it was one of the better lines. You know, we thought it was a good line.

BEHAR: Oh, it was hilarious line and he deserved it. Thanks for coming on.

TOMLIN: Oh yeah. Oh, it`s my great pleasure.

BEHAR: Good luck with the new show.

TOMLIN: All right, thank you.

BEHAR: And thank you all for watching, tonight. Good night, everybody.

TOMLIN: Good night, everybody.

(LAUGHTER)

END