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Plane Misses Landing Target by 150 Miles; Senate Health Care Bill Might Include Public Option; Afghan Runoff Presidential Elections Scheduled; CDC Says Swine Flu Worse for Kids; Microsoft Teams Up With Burger King to Launch Windows 7; Pay Czar Lets Three Executives Keep Their Bonuses; National Report Card; Who's Thirsty Now?; Gays Get Hate Crimes Protection
Aired October 23, 2009 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And we're coming up once again on the top of the hour. Welcome this Friday. It's October 23rd, I'm Kiran Chetry.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm John Roberts. Thanks for joining us on the Most News in the Morning. Here are this morning's top stories. We'll be telling you about them in the next 15 minutes.
Investigators are trying to determine whether the crew of Northwest Airlines Flight 188 was asleep at the controls. The plane left San Diego last night bound for Minneapolis, but over shot its landing by 150 miles. Ahead, why air traffic controllers briefly believed that the plane might have been highjack.
CHETRY: Talk about health care compromise on Capitol Hill. Sources say senate democrats and the White House officials may let states opt out of a government to run health with. Senators were at the White House yesterday, and we're live in Washington with where things stand right now.
ROBERTS: The Centers for Disease Control says about 20 percent of kids across the country had flu symptoms this month, and it was most probably the swine flu. Doctor and hospital visits are up across the board.
So why is the vaccine still so hard to come by? Answers from an infectious disease expert just ahead.
But we begin the hour with the troubling journey of Northwest Airlines Flight 188. It has people across the country once again wondering just how safe we are when we fly.
Authorities now want to know if the pilots fell asleep at the controls. The plane overshot its landing and not by a little -- by 150 miles, and had some officials wondering if it had been hijacked.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: At 5:41 p.m. Eastern time, Northwest Airlines Flight 188 departs San Diego bound for Minneapolis. The takeoff is routine. As the Airbus A320 flies at an altitude of 37,000 feet over the Rockies, the crew makes radio contact with Denver Center air traffic controllers.
A short time later, when Denver Center tries to reestablish contact, there's no response from the cockpit. Controllers try texting the crew. Nothing.
At 7:56 p.m. Eastern, the FAA designates the flight NORDO status, short for "no radio communication." Denver Center hands off tracking responsibilities to Minneapolis Center. Controllers in Minneapolis can't make radio contact either.
So fighter jets are mobilized in Madison, Wisconsin, fears mounting that Flight 188 might have been hijacked.
CNN's Chad Myers, one of the first reporters on the story, tracking the flight minute by minute.
CHAD MYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This plane was supposed to start to descend. It never did. It never took the power off. It kept flying, flew over Minneapolis and kept right on going.
ROBERTS: Flight 188 overshoots Minneapolis airport by 150 miles. There has been no radio contact for more than an hour.
Finally, at 9:14 p.m., air traffic controllers are able to connect with the crew. By that time, the plane was already well past Minneapolis and over Wisconsin.
Controllers asked the pilot to make a 180-degree turn and then ordered him to perform a series of maneuvers to make sure he's in control of the aircraft, not hijackers.
The pilot's explanation for overshooting Minneapolis? The NTSB says, quote, "The crew stated they were in a heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness."
At 10:02 p.m. the plane finally lands safely in Minneapolis one hour and 14 minutes late.
MYERS: This was a crazy little flight, and I think the NTSB will have a lot to say about this. They have the voice recorder and the flight data recorder. They had taken those out of the plane, taken them back to D.C. They will download all the data and they'll know by tomorrow what actually happened in this cockpit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Delta Airlines owns Northwest. They have issued a statement saying that they are cooperating with the NTSB and FAA in their investigations while also conducting an investigation of their own. Until those investigations are complete, the pilots of Flight 188 have been grounded.
CHETRY: Also new this morning, high stakes talks at the White House about the future of your health care. There's now talk of an optional public option. This would give states the chance to opt out of a government-run insurance plan.
Our Dana Bash has the latest developments live from Washington. So it's looking more like they're at least talking about this possibility that Senate Democrats could actually pass a health care bill with a public option in it.
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think Democratic leaders, certainly, Kiran are struggling to answer the question, and the key question is whether the votes are there.
But what Democratic sources tell us is the Senate Majority Leader, as you said, Harry Reid is leaning toward a modified public option that allows states to opt out because he hopes that will appeal to conservative Democrats who may have an easier time selling a government-run health care option back home in states like Nebraska and Arkansas if they know they can opt out.
Reid is apparently so close to deciding that the president called him and other Democratic leaders down to discuss this strategy at the White House late yesterday -- it was a last-minute meeting -- and to discuss really whether this could be the best approach that would lead to that magic number, 60 votes to pass the health care overhaul in the Senate -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Where does Olympia Snowe stand on this one?
BASH: Unfortunately for Harry Reid, she is the monkey wrench to this approach because she opposes this idea of a public option and allowing states to opt out.
And Democrats, especially over at the White House, are very focused on keeping her support since she is the only Republican of course, so far to back a Democratic plan, and they really want to label it bipartisan, especially at the White House.
In fact, I'm told at the White House meeting yesterday the president voiced support for including Snowe's idea of a so-called trigger in a Senate bill. That's a public option down the road only if health care costs don't come down first.
But it's very interesting, Kiran, talking to Democrats, one big factor at play is CNN's new poll this week and others just like it showing there is actually growing support out there for a public option. And that's putting even more pressure on Democratic leaders to include it.
And it's pretty dramatic, because any approach right now is a gamble. It's not clear where the votes are.
CHETRY: It's that time of year when people start to see what their health care coverage will be for the next year, people who are employed, and they're seeing all those premiums and costs rise. And so that's a very interesting poll as we've talked about before. You're paying more for it no matter what, so we'll see what happens. Dana Bash for us this morning. Thanks.
ROBERTS: This morning President Obama under pressure for a strategy to prevent fraud from marring Afghanistan runoff election in two weeks. It pits President Hamid Karzai against ex-foreign minister Abdullah Abdullah.
And for the first time since the runoff was announced Karzai is speaking exclusively to CNN and our Fareed Zakaria. Our Chris Lawrence is live for in Kabul for us this morning. And Chris, what is Karzai saying?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, he's saying that the runoff has to be more legitimate than the first election, but that the first election wasn't as bad as some made it out to be.
He compared Afghanistan's democracy to "a toddler," saying "Sometimes we walk and then we fall." And he also in an exclusive interview for "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" addressed the burning question of more American troops in his country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": So you support the McChrystal report and you would like to see 40,000 more American troops in Afghanistan?
HAMID KARZAI, PRESIDENT OF AFGHANISTAN: I support General McChrystal's support specifically when that report talks of providing protection to the population, providing them better reconstruction activity, and that the war on terror must not be pursuing and killing the Taliban, but it must rather concentrate on providing protection to the people.
Now, with regard to the addition of troops, this matter that we have to discuss as the election gets over, with the U.S. government, the arrival of troops, if it contributes to better security for the Afghan people, if it contributes to better protection for the civilian population, and if it enhances the ability of the Afghan forces to eventually stand on their own feet and defend their country, that's something we can work about and agree about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAWRENCE: We also just got out of a briefing with some senior U.S. military officials here in Kabul. And they tell us that basically we'll be very tough. It's going to be a tough job to secure this election in just this short amount of time.
But they say all other missions now become secondary. This election is the primary focus, and they expect that U.S. forces will have sort of the same role they did the first time, which is letting the Afghan police be the initial layer of security, the Afghan army the second layer, and U.S. forces the third layer, providing a quick response in the case the Afghan army or police need to respond to the situation, they can give them quick transportation and drop them into those trouble spots -- John?
ROBERTS: Stability is certainly something Afghanistan can use in no small measure. Chris Lawrence for us in Kabul this morning. Chris, thanks so much.
And don't miss the entire exclusive interview with President Hamid Karzai on "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS".
CHETRY: It's nine minutes past the hour.
Also new this morning, a bill more than ten years in the making the headed to the president's desk. It will make assaulting a person based on their sexual preference a federal hate crime. It's named for Matthew Shepherd, a young gay man who was tied to a fence and beaten a decade ago.
Religious groups have argued that the law could criminalize conservative speech, but the attorney general says it will only be used to prosecute violent actions.
ROBERTS: More than 2.5 million people visited each year. Now a new report says Mt. Rushmore has some big security lapses. "USA Today" reports that hundreds of people have been getting access to secure areas of the national icon and that there aren't enough rangers there.
A security review was launched after Green Peace demonstrators were able to get close enough to hang a banner from Abe Lincoln's side burn. That was last summer. And that would be a wake- up call.
CHETRY: American League Championship series is headed back to the Bronx. The L.A. Angels were able to fight off elimination. They blew a four-run lead, then came from behind 7-6 in a victory over the Yanks in Anaheim.
The Yankees do still lead the series, but now we're getting down to the wire. It's three games to two. Game six now moves to Saturday night in New York.
Game seven, if needed, will be Sunday. Hopefully the weather will cooperate there. And the winner goes on to play the Phillies in the World Series.
ROBERTS: You know the Yankees just wanted to win it at the new stadium.
CHETRY: There you go.
ROBERTS: Hot off the presses this morning, the White House unveiling this portrait of the first family just minutes ago. It's the first official White House portrait of the Obamas. The picture was taken by Annie Leibovitz who has done other Obama family photos in the past before the president was elected.
And you may recall that Bo, the first dog, had his portrait down back in June.
CHETRY: It's hard to get the dog in with all the kids.
ROBERTS: There's not a lot of room left in those photos. There's a lot of folks in those photos.
CHETRY: Still ahead, we'll be speaking with Dr. Anthony Fauci. He's going to be telling us a little bit more about the questions we have over swine flu. The outbreak growing, more and more states reporting swine flu.
We know that we're a little bit behind on getting the vaccines out there. So what should people do? Some answers.
It's 11 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. It's 14 minutes past the hour.
Here at AM, we're committed to tracking the swine flu for you. so here is a look at the nationwide map. The CDC says cases are widespread in 41 states. The worst outbreaks right now are the ones in red, so you can see a lot in the west and a lot in parts of the north.
Meanwhile, the Department of Education says 301 schools were closed yesterday in 16 different states, and that's more than 102,000 kids out of school. Yesterday when we told you there were 65,000. And on Monday there was only about 28,000. So, as we can see, this is something that is growing each and every day.
New York, by the way, no longer forcing its health care workers to get seasonal flu and swine flu vaccines to keep their jobs. Workers had been upset over those requirements and actually sued the state. Governor Paterson though says that the state is backing down because of the H1N1 shortage right now, and that they should be reserved for those most at risk.
ROBERTS: So the numbers show that the swine flu epidemic is getting worse. The Centers for Disease Control says one out of every five kids in America had flu symptoms this month and most likely those flu symptoms were caused by H1N1. So just how bad can it get? And why is the vaccine still in such short supply?
Let's bring in Dr. Tony Fauci. He's the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infections Diseases, and he's in Washington.
Dr. Fauci, great to see you this morning. So this is what? Many public experts had warned us about last winter, early this spring that the virus would mostly lie low for a while during the summer and then explode upon us in the fall. Are you surprised at all by what you're seeing?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: No, not at all. In fact, that was the major concern because we had originally seen it in April towards the end of the school year with a big blip. And then when the school year ended, it went down, but it never went away. It was always lurking there with the expectation that when you get young children, kids who are vulnerable to a virus they've never seen before again congregating in schools, it's not at all surprising to us that we're seeing this blip.
The concern is how highest they're going to go and how widespread it can be. It looks like this virus is very, very good at spreading from person to person. It has no trouble doing that, so we expect that this will continue.
ROBERTS: Right. So barely into flu season now answering that question, how bad do you think it could get?
FAUCI: Well, number speaking, you saw the numbers and you mentioned them, John, that we have about one out of five schoolchildren now have flu-like symptoms. If you look at the entire population at any given year, anywhere from five to 15 percent of the population gets seasonal flu. With this flu that spreads so well, it could be 20 percent or more of the population, even up to 25 or more of the population could get infected as we go into the flu season when it gets colder with the winter, with a lot of indoors and confined spaces, that could happen.
Hopefully, by that time, we'll have enough doses of vaccine so that everyone who needs one and wants one can get it. As you mentioned right now, the production of the vaccine has been slow. We expect that a lot more than we have right now. But as we get into the end of October, the beginning of November, the curve of vaccine availability is going to start to go very, very high. Right now, unfortunately, it's lower than what we want it to be.
ROBERTS: All right. On that point, there was supposed to be 120 million doses of vaccine by this time. There have only been about 13 million. And it raises the question, will the vaccine come too late to prevent a major epidemic? That is by the time that the vaccine becomes widely available, will this thing have already spread about as far as it's going to spread?
FAUCI: Well, you know, there's always that possibility. But I don't think so, John. What I think is going to happen even though you can never fully predict with influenza is that this flu likely will continue right into the late fall and early winter. We see that with flu. It's obviously widespread in many states as you mentioned just a moment ago. But it really is not going to be too late ever to get the vaccine, because if you get the vaccine next week or the week after, the week after, we're still going to see a lot of flu as we go into the winter. So I don't think people should get the impression that it's going to be too late to get the vaccine.
ROBERTS: You see a real split here. A lot of people are worried that this vaccine is not yet available, and then there are -- I don't want to say an equal number of people, but there are a lot of people who are worried about its safety, perhaps remembering back to the 1976 flu outbreak when there was some evidence that the vaccine that was impure caused Guillain-Barre syndrome in some folks. What is the extent of the safety testing on this vaccine and would you -- would you give it to your children?
FAUCI: Absolutely. My children will be vaccinated with this vaccine, and I can say that with confidence. I leave it up to them. They're at that age where they can make up their own mind, but I strongly suggesting to them and it looks like they're going to do it when it becomes available. I have three daughters and all three of them are going to do that.
Myself, I'm a health worker, so I should be getting the vaccine and I will get it when it becomes available to me. The safety issue is as such, this vaccine is made exactly the same way, the same materials, the same processing, the same companies as the seasonal flu vaccine that we make and distribute every year to tens and tens and tens of millions of people in this country and hundreds of millions of people worldwide. It has a very good safety record. For this specific one, we've been testing it over the past few months in thousands of people and we see no, what I call "red flags of safety," no serious adverse events that could be associated with the flu definitively. So, you know, you never can give anyone 100 percent guarantee. But the track record of these types of vaccines is very good with regard to safety.
ROBERTS: Dr. Tony Fauci of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, good to talk to you this morning, doc. Thanks for coming in.
FAUCI: Thank you. Good to be here.
ROBERTS: And still ahead, what can schools do to stop the spread of swine flu. We're going to ask Education Secretary Arne Duncan. He joins us live in about 20 minutes time right here on the "Most News in the Morning." Of course, we'll also ask about educating teachers and what about those fourth grade math scores? What's going on there.
Twenty and a half minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Good old weird Al, huh? Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. The land of the rising sun is now the home of the whopper this morning. A whopper in a whopper, actually. The mother of all promotions.
ROBERTS: The mother of all whoppers, the mowow (ph), where seven patties of flame-broiled goodness about all the calories that you have in an American meals needs in a day, wrapped up in a bun there.
Our little Kyung Lah took on this monster. It's literally the size of her head. One customer who ate it said that he needed to shower afterwards. How did she do? Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This week Microsoft is launching in Japan Windows 7, its new operating system. In a promotional move, it decided it wanted additional publicity, so it decided to join with Burger King and launch the Windows 7 whopper.
So there are seven patties in the Window 7 burger, and for this week at every single Burger King in Japan you can buy this for 777 yen. Only the first 30 customers, that's about $8.5. That's about $9. That's about 791 grams of meat, which is just under a kilo but also about 1.7 pounds. In case you're wondering who would eat all this, we actually found some people who are eating it, but not everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looked good, but I don't know if I can keep all that down. I went with the double whopper.
LAH (voice-over): In Japan's economic slowdown, McDonald's has seen record profits, fast, big portion food at low prices. Burger King has a smaller market share, but hopes this joint promotion in tech-loving Tokyo will generate buzz and business.
(on camera): My turn. In case you're wondering, 2,120 calories, a whole day's calorie intake.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: OK. You know what we've got to do? Next 4th of July, Kyung Lah against Takeru Kobayashi (ph) at the Nathan's hot dog eating contest.
CHETRY: Yes. Yes, she could win it.
ROBERTS: This we must do.
CHETRY: She could win it. Because it's not how big you are. She's tiny, so is Kobayashi.
ROBERTS: How big this is.
CHETRY: Yes, it's how much you can store in there.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I think that more than a pound of beef there, that's seven -- I think that's a metaphor for the rich, fat pay packages that really were empty calories in much of the late 1990s and early 2000s.
ROBERTS: Christine Romans here "Minding Your Business" this morning.
CHETRY: Got a metaphor that many people were all too eager to gobble up.
ROMANS: Oh, yes, indeed.
CHETRY: And now they've got to regurgitate it.
ROMANS: That's right. Yes. That's right.
CHETRY: I'm sorry.
ROMANS: Four of their patties have been taken away by them by the White House pay czar. We are talking about huge cuts to pay for those seven big firms that have received exceptional assistance from the American taxpayer to stay alive. And one of the things that a lot of people are zeroing on this morning -- Kenneth Feinberg, the guy is responsible for cutting that pay, actually allowing three top executives at AIG to keep retention bonuses. One of them gets $4 million. One of them gets $5 million. One of them gets $7 million.
A lot of people are saying wait a minute. AIG is kind of the center of the storm here. Why are these three allowed to keep this money? This is what Kenneth Feinberg said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNETH FEINBERG, TREASURY DEPARTMENT SPECIAL MASTER FOR COMPENSATION: What these three AIG officials are entitled to is a prior valid contract entered into long before the law was passed or I arrived. And the fact of the matter is that I met with the AIG officials, and there's clearly an understanding that these contracts are valid. However, since those contracts are valid, I did take those dollars into account in setting compensation for 2009 and going forward into 2010.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: In the end, Feinberg found that paying out those retention contracts, paying out all that money for those three was in the public interest essentially. They wanted to retain those people and keep them doing the job they're doing at AIG which is, of course, owned by the American taxpayer. And the goal here is to get these companies back up on their feet.
But Kenneth Feinberg said that it was a very thorny situation in the case of AIG. The company lobbied hard to let those three top employees keep their money and they will.
ROBERTS: You know, you just get like a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach when you mention the figures that you do. But how is Wall Street reacting?
ROMANS: There's a lot of surprise I think by how deep some of the cuts went. You know, the base salary will be $500,000 or so, and then a lot of the other compensation will be deferred.
Bank of America, interestingly, came out sort of the most forcefully. And this is what a Bank of America spokesman said. "People want to work here but they want to be paid fairly. Competitors already are exploiting the situation by identifying our top performers and using pay concerns to recruit them away for fair market compensation."
In some cases folks at Bank of America can make maybe twice as much someplace else that's not under the gun, not in one of these seven companies. And so there is this feeling that, you know, we own Bank of America. We taxpayers do. So you want like the top talent to be able to stay there.
One of the things for Kenneth Feinberg I think that's interesting is that either way people are going to be disappointed.
CHETRY: Right.
ROMANS: Wall Street is going to be disappointed because they're going to look at this pay cut and say, well, we're not going to be able to keep our top people.
CHETRY: Right.
ROMANS: Main Street is going to be disappointed. They're going to say what, some of these people are still getting $1 million, $2 million? And that's a cut of 50, 60 percent?
CHETRY: Right.
ROMANS: Either way the optics on both sides is not great.
CHETRY: And Feinberg said he believes they struck the right balance to making that happen, to being able to retain them.
ROMANS: Yes.
CHETRY: So we'll have to see.
ROMANS: Yes. And you know, I just want to quickly add that it's been a remarkable week for "YOUR MONEY." I mean, pay cuts got all of the headlines but the president is launching a big new thing on small businesses. The Consumer Finance Agency made it through the House. I mean, a lot of stuff is happening on "YOUR MONEY" that it's been a really remarkable week.
CHETRY: That's why we've got to watch your weekend show.
ROMANS: Yes. "YOUR MONEY" Saturdays at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, Sundays at 3:00 p.m.
CHETRY: Hope you're watching. Christine, thanks so much.
Well, still ahead, you know, Elizabeth Cohen has been doing a very eye-opening look at just how many germs there are out there and everything. Now, she tackles the fountain of "ick."
Our moms always told us don't put your lips right on the water fountain, right? Don't put your lips right on the spout. But should you just avoid them at all costs? Elizabeth Cohen with a look coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: ... half hour now, and here are this morning's top stories. Air safety investigators are trying to determine whether a Northwest Airlines crew fell asleep at the controls. They overshot their landings by a little bit, about 150 miles and couldn't be contacted by air traffic controllers for an hour and 18 minutes. That has a lot of people again wondering just how safe are we when we fly.
CHETRY: Investigators are saying they don't know what caused an explosion that set an oil refinery on fire earlier this morning. It happened in Puerto Rico. Police report minor injuries right now at the Gulf Oil facility. At least 11 of the plant's 30-plus tanks have already exploded. Firefighters say it could take days to put out the flames.
ROBERTS: Defense Secretary Robert Gates is speaking to NATO defense ministers in Slovakia at this hour. He's calling on America's allies to consider more economic and security aid for Afghanistan. He's calling any reduction of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, very unlikely calling the mission, quote, "critical to America's security."
CHETRY: Meanwhile, Afghanistan's fraud-ridden election making things even more challenging for President Obama and the allies. So, what is the best way forward? Joining me now with more is Andrew Exum, a fellow at the Center for a New American Security. He's also served in General McChrystal's strategy review team.
Thanks for being with us this morning, Andrew.
And also with him, this morning, is Rajiv Chandrasekaran, an associate editor at "The Washington Post." He just returned from a trip to Afghanistan.
Rajiv, great to have you as well.
RAJIV CHANDRASEKARAN, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Great to be on with you.
CHETRY: Rajiv, let me start with you about Senator John Kerry going to Afghanistan and helping to hammer out an agreement to actually hold another election, set to take place on the 7th of November. Senator Kerry saying he does think it's a good idea to hold off on making decisions, both strategic and on troop levels until that election takes place. What do you make of that?
CHANDRASEKARAN: Well, what's going on here is the White House is concerned about having any decision out of Washington, fundamentally sort of affect the political dynamics in Afghanistan in the run-up to the November 7th runoff. While discussions are still ongoing at high levels here in Washington, it appears that they're not going to be making any big announcement until Afghans go to the polls.
There's also a lot of interest, in Washington, to see whether they can even compel the two challengers in this, President Karzai and Abdullah Abdullah, to see if they can actually come up with some sort of political compromise that may even potentially avert this runoff in November.
CHETRY: Right. Right.
And, Andrew, let me ask you, how much does it matter in your opinion of who is in power as it relates to us hammering out and verbalizing our policy moving forward? ANDREW EXUM, FELLOW, CENTER FOR A NEW AMERICAN SECURITY: I think it matters quite a bit. One of the conclusions we arrived at this summer was that the weakness and/or predatory behavior of the Afghan government is as big or greater a threat to mission success in Afghanistan as anything the Taliban, or the Khani (ph) network, or any of these other insurgent groups do.
I think right now it's a good thing that the president's advisors are going back, revisiting some of their assumptions that went into their planning process. Having said that, if they're not using this time, this time, when Afghanistan's leaders think we might reduce our presence in Afghanistan, if they're not using this time to exert leverage on Afghanistan's leaders to talk about the composition of the next government, to talk about what types of figures we'd like to see included, I think that would be a lost opportunity.
Because if the composition of the Afghan government looks a lot like the same people that the Taliban threw out of power, who ruled Afghanistan between 1992 and 1996, then I think we've got a problem. We need to have an inclusive Afghan government to go forward with the counterinsurgency strategy.
CHETRY: And Rajiv, the military is saying they have a short window to shift momentum in Afghanistan. Meanwhile, as we know, public support, here in the U.S., for this war is waning. How much time, realistically, does the administration have to decide?
CHANDRASEKARAN: Well, this is a central part of the political debate going on here in Washington. Obviously congressional Republicans are hammering the White House, saying that they're taking too long. Obviously, Vice President Cheney accusing the administration of dithering here in recent days.
But what administration officials say - and backed by senior military officials - is they do have time. They wanted to make a well-thought-out decision here. Take the necessary time to go over all the options. If it's just a matter of weeks here, what I hear from military officials is that's not a problem. They will have time to get the necessary troops in order to get out to Afghanistan starting by next spring, when the spring fighting season starts to resume over there.
CHETRY: And that's the interesting thing, people are talking about let's hurry up and make a decision. Andrew, you can give us some more insight into this. Whatever decision is made, we're still talking years before a strategy is completely implemented, before anything is actually -- any major changes take place in terms of our presence in Afghanistan, correct?
EXUM: Yeah. That's the really tough thing. The first time I fought in Afghanistan was at a young infantry platoon leader in 2002. We've been in this war for quite a long time. And I think the public's - and not just the United States, and also some of the other troop contributing nations, are a little wary of the war. But the reality is that this has been an economy of force mission for the past six, seven years because of the Iraq war.
We're only starting to get serious in Afghanistan right now. It's going to take a long-term commitment, especially towards building Afghan institutions, specifically the Afghan national security forces, the police, the army. It's going to take a long-term commitment before we can really turn the conflict, and turn the country over to our Afghan partners which, of course, is the most desirable outcome.
CHETRY: I want to thank both of you, Andrew Exum, as well as Rajiv Chandrasekaran. Thanks for being with us this morning.
EXUM: Sure thing.
ROBERTS: We have been talking this morning about the swine flu epidemic and just how widespread it's going to be, the number of schools and students affected. We'll be talking with Education Secretary Arne Duncan about that, coming up next. We also have questions about him about how to provide appropriate teachers for the coming century. And what's going on with math scores in elementary school? Lots to talk about this morning. Its 37 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Swine flu is spreading in America's schools at an alarming rate with the vaccine in very short supply. More than 300 schools in 16 states were forced to close on Thursday because of H1N1. What can educators do to deal with the virus? Joining us from Washington to answer that question, and many others, Education Secretary Arne Duncan.
Mr. Secretary, great to see you. So, at your department's count, 102,000 students out of school yesterday. We saw the situation in Saint Charles, Illinois, where almost 50 percent of the student body called in absent. How bad do you expect the flu epidemic is going to be? How hard will it hit our schools?
ARNE DUNCAN, SECRETARY OF EDUCATION: We don't know going forward what's going to happen. We have seen an uptake, literally, in just the past two days. This is why prevention is so important. I think students and parents and staff are doing a great, great job so far, making sure if the we're coughing, we're coughing into our sleeves, making sure to wash hands thoroughly. And most importantly the children who are sick are staying home.
As you know, the vaccination is starting to become available. It's not been available as quickly as we would have liked. We're starting to get children with access to it. And we have thousands and thousands of schools around the country that are willing to be vaccination sites. That's so important as we move from prevention into the vaccination stage, that students with their parents' permission sign up and get that vaccine.
ROBERTS: On Capitol Hill, on Wednesday, you were urging students to get vaccinated. As you said, a big shortage of vaccine. There's a possibility, as we talked with Doctor Fauci, from the NIH, a couple of moments ago, that the vaccine may be late to prevent the spread of this disease. What are parents and students to do?
DUNCAN: It's starting to become available. Again, it is not as much available as we would like at this point in time. There are students around the country who are start to have access. I'm actually even more concerned that families and communities with access may not take advantage of it. Again, we're strongly urging folks, if the vaccine is available in their community to sign the permission form, and make sure their children do get the shot, or get the nasal spray.
My wife and I filled out the paperwork for our two children over the weekend. When the vaccine becomes available in our community, we're absolutely going to have our children receive the vaccine.
ROBERTS: Let's switch gears and look at education here. Because you made some very critical comments earlier this week, about the state of teaching our teachers in this nation. There's going to be as many as a million new teachers needed over the next five years. What's going wrong here? What are you worried about?
DUNCAN: There's a phenomenal opportunity with the baby boomer generation retiring, we're going to have about a million new openings for teachers over the next five years. This is a booming field. We're going to be hiring up to 200,000 new teachers across the country. As I've traveled the country and been to over 30 states, it's actually been really tough. I talked to great, great young teachers throughout the nation. So many of them have been frankly disappointed with the level of education and the rigor of their courses they received in schools of education.
So, as a country we're trying to get dramatically better educationally. Schools of education have to be part of the solution. They have to really step it up. These great young teachers have asked for two things. One, they want more hands-on practical experience, teaching children while they're getting their education, so they can enter the classroom with those classroom management skills. And secondly they want to be better trained in the use of data.
So, we're challenging schools of education to really step up. There are some phenomenal examples of success, but quite frankly, not enough. There are too many schools of education that are mediocre and the status quo isn't good enough. They have to get a lot better.
ROBERTS: You have described some of these teaching institutions, Mr. Secretary, as nothing more than cash cows. But leaders in teaching teachers say they need some specific and definitive proposals; constructive guidance, instead of blanket criticism. What sort of constructive guidelines could you lay down here, from your perch at the Department of Education?
DUNCAN: Again, it is simply listening to those great young teachers and asking them what did you receive? And what didn't you receive? And what would you like better? And universally what they're asking for is more hands-on, practical experience in the classroom, more time as a student teacher. Not just learning the theory of education, but actually working with students in classrooms. That's the biggest request the good young teachers are asking for.
Secondly they're asking for more training in the use of data. Really taking these great assessments, and learning those skills while they're still in school, not having to learn those on the job. I've been to about 32 states. It's amazing...
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: Yes, but I'm just wondering...
I'm just wondering, do you have to do more as the secretary of Education than saying to these institutions listen to the teachers?
DUNCAN: We're going to challenge them to really step up and do some things differently. But I think it's so important they listen to their graduates. Those graduates know what worked for them, they know what didn't. Some schools of education are doing a phenomenal job. We need more to step into that category and raise their game.
ROBERTS: There was also some alarming statistics included in the nation's report card, just a little while ago, that math scores among eighth graders continued to improve, 2005 through - sorry, 2007 through 2009. But nothing really much happened with the fourth grade. It's so important to have those children learning at such an early age. What's going on with that? And how can - I'll let you put that back in your ear. What's going on with those math scores in fourth grade? Here we are the most powerful country in the world, the biggest economy in the world and we are nowhere even near being a model for public education in the world.
DUNCAN: You're exactly right. That's why we're pushing so hard for everyone to change behavior and get dramatically better. You're right. The results of the math results were disturbing. Fourth grade test scores were flat, no improvement. Eighth grade jumped up a little bit. But there is still a tremendous achievement gap there, which is a real challenge.
The disparities in outcomes between white children and African- American and Latino, are still far too large. So, as a country we can't sit back and pat ourselves on the back and rest on our laurels. We have to get dramatically better, so all of us have to do more. Our dropout rate is 30 percent as a country. That's 1.2 million young children every single year dropping out. That's not good enough. We have to do dramatically better. All of us have to be part of that solution.
ROBERTS: Mr. Secretary, a lot of people will be looking to you for leadership on this and will be watching closely over the next three years, what you have to do this on this. Secretary Arne Duncan, thanks for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.
DUNCAN: Thanks for the opportunity.
ROBERTS: For more on this topic, by the way, and why parents are so divided over getting the H1N1 vaccination, go to our blog at CNN.com/amfix.
CHETRY: Elizabeth Cohen joins us with her next installment of her special series on "Germ Nation". She tackles the water fountain. Should we be avoiding water fountains all together? Its 46 minutes past the hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. You know, your mother probably told you, like mine did, don't put your mouth right on the water fountain spout.
ROBERTS: Ick.
CHETRY: You know, it didn't use to - but it would - you know, it wasn't a very, like - it wasn't a good enough stream, so you had to get really close to it to get the water out, you know what I mean? So sometimes you ended up sucking water out of the fountains.
ROBERTS: Those were the streams that I used to look at and say the stream out back of the school looks better than this one.
CHETRY: Well, you know, what with swine flu around, some are asking should you just avoid water fountains altogether?
ROBERTS: Better yet, you know, avoid all of this stuff at all costs. You know, button yourself on one of - on one of those biohazard suits and walk around like the girl or the boy in the bubble.
Our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has got today's "Germ Nation" special report. Look at this.
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ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's flu season and the germs are out in full force. I bet you think you're so smart. You wash your hands at every opportunity, you spray down your computer keyboard to disinfect it. But I bet there's one thing you haven't thought about. I bet you haven't thought about this.
COHEN (voice-over): That's right, the water fountain. They're everywhere - in parks, in schools. Could they be a hiding spot for germs?
COHEN (on camera): We were wondering just how many pairs of lips touch this spout every day, so we brought along bubbler cam.
COHEN (voice-over): Within an hour, not one, not five, but 14 people came up and drank from this fountain or filled up a water bottle. That's about one person every four minutes. If any of them were sick, does that mean you could get sick too?
According to research from microbiologist Charles Gerba - better known as Dr. Germ - the chances are high. He says germs like H1N1 can linger on inanimate objects for hours, on fountain handles, doorknobs, keyboards, and, yes, water bubblers. He say they should be disinfected regularly to prevent disease, especially in schools. In fact, over fears of H1N1, schools like this one in Kansas have actually shut down their water fountains, at least until the end of the flu season.
But is that really necessary?
COHEN (on camera): Dr. Gerberding, we went to a gym and we mounted a camera and we watched people as they drank from a water fountain. So take a look at this. Do water fountains worry you at all?
DR. JULIE GERBERDING, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT: I'm not really worried about water fountains.
COHEN: So shutting down water fountains in schools you think might be kind of going overboard?
GERBERDING: Well, generally speaking, I don't think that's going to be very helpful or important in preventing flu. I think it's just common sense. Let the water run a couple seconds before you start drinking, don't touch the spout with your mouth, and when you're done, if you've touched the bar, turn it on or off and clean your hands.
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COHEN: Now as Dr. Gerberding said -- she's the former head of the CDC, by the way - you don't have to avoid water fountains altogether. But you can let the water run a little bit before you take your sip. Now what she says is that that can help flush out any germs that might be on the spout - John and Kiran.
CHETRY: You brought up another good point when you saw the people using their water bottles because they're drinking that, right? They're drinking on the little mouth of the water bottle and they're putting it right up against either, you know, your water cooler or the water fountain. I mean, that seems like a recipe for germs, too.
COHEN: Right. Exactly. Take a look at what we're showing you right now. I know whose water bottle that is, so I know that she drank from it before she got water this morning, and now that's on that little back piece. The next person who comes behind her could get it too.
So again, you could try a common sense approach here. Use your fingers to push back that bar, let the water flow in, and then you can go wash your hands. If these things concern you, you can think through strategies like that.
ROBERTS: Elizabeth Cohen this morning with some good tips. Elizabeth, thanks so much.
So guess who's giving a press conference today at the National Press Club in Washington? CHETRY: It is, actually, a very, very popular guy, rapper and hip hop artist Ludacris. He's talking about kids stepping up to the plate, giving back to their communities and the importance of helping young people.
ROBERTS: Yes, and we'll be talking to Ludacris, coming up in our next hour here on the most news in the morning.
It's 53 minutes right now after the hour.
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CHETRY: We're coming up on four minutes before the top of the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
A bill more than 10 years in the making is headed to the president's desk today and it will make violence based on a person's sexual orientation officially a federal hate crime. It's named after Matthew Shepard. He's a young gay man who was tied to a fence and beaten to death a decade ago.
Dana Bash is working on this story live for us from Washington this morning. We also just want to warn people watching that some of the language they may find offensive.
Tell us a little bit more about why it took so long to get to this point?
BASH: Well, it took so long because this is very controversial. In fact, Republicans are furious because Democrats actually attached this hate crimes measure to a must-pass (ph) defense bill. Senate Democrats admit it was the only way to find enough votes.
Well, we talked to a victim of a hate crime who says this legislation is a crucial step in making him feel safe again.
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BASH (voice-over): Todd Metrokin came here for a late-night pizza last summer, he offered a slice to some people sitting outside.
TODD METROKIN, HATE CRIME VICTIM: I thought it was a nice exchange, and as we were walking away, my friend mentioned, you know, that - he said - he called me a faggot under his breath.
BASH: As they walked through this Adams Morgan neighborhood in DC, Metrokin didn't realize they were being followed until they were suddenly attacked.
METROKIN: The attack occurred right about here. They were calling us names, faggot...
BASH: What's the last thing you remembered?
METROKIN: I - the last thing I remembered was the first hit.
BASH: He woke up in the hospital looking like this - bruises and broken bones, even a shoe mark on his face.
METROKIN: Somebody had to actually stomp on my face while I was on the ground to achieve that, and that's when it became just so crystal clear to me the kind of hate that requires someone to do that.
BASH: Attacks like this will now be a federal offense under a legislation expanding the hate crimes law which now covers race, color and religion to also include victims targeted because of their sexual orientation.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D-VT), JUDICIARY CHAIRMAN: Violence against members of any group because of who they are is not going to be tolerated in our country.
BASH: Many Republicans object, arguing violent crimes are already illegal, and this creates what they call "thought crimes."
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), MINORITY LEADER: The idea that we're going to pass a law that's going to add further charges to someone based on what they may have been thinking I think is wrong.
BASH: But supporters note this would punish acts, not beliefs, and point to government figures showing crimes against gays and lesbians are on the rise and say federal dollars, attention and penalties this new law would provide are needed.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I will sign it into law.
BASH: Politically, the White House hopes passing this long- fought priority in the gay community will ease frustration that President Obama is slow to act on their issues.
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BASH: Gay rights groups praise Democrats for passing what they call the "first major piece of civil rights legislation for lesbian, gay and transgender Americans." But, Kiran, privately, gay rights activists say the president has a long way to go in tempering anger that he's still dragging his feet on other priorities, like reversing the military's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy - Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. Dana Bash for us this morning. Thank you.
