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Nancy Grace
Balloon Boy`s Mom Confesses to Hoax
Aired October 26, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Colorado, the whole country on pins and needles, a little 6-year-old boy`s life hanging in the balance and a beautiful silver space-like balloon soaring through the clouds. Police, sheriffs, National Guards, volunteers, the FAA, even a whole airport and commercial carriers trying to save the life of a 6-year- old boy whose brothers and parents say is trapped inside that homemade balloon. Eyewitness reports something or someone falls thousands of feet to rough terrain near the Colorado Rocky Mountains.
After 60 miles of terror, the balloon lands. No boy. Was he dead? Was he injured? Was he lying down a ravine with every bone in his body broken? No! He was hiding in the family attic the whole time, blurting out on national TV it was all, quote, "for the show." On not one but two morning shows, that same boy so nervous, he vomits when asked the question.
Breaking tonight, a stunning confession blows this case wide open. We learn the mom confesses to police it was a hoax from the get-go, the Heenes forcing their little boys to lie on TV and to police, all to make the family famous.
More disturbing news about the boys` home environment, video of another attempt of Daddy using the boys as fodder for a reality show. We have the video. In addition to an alleged domestic abuse 911 call to the home, the boys, ages 6, 8 and 10, appear on YouTube in a rap song allegedly their dad wrote and taught them, full of filthy language. The title is so vulgar, a smear on women, I will not repeat it on the air.
Richard Heene`s ex-wife with us live, taking your calls tonight. Looks like bye-bye reality show, hello cellblock!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Is the flying saucer gone, as well?
MAYUMI HEENE, MOTHER: Yes, about 20 minutes, I think.
911 OPERATOR: It`s been -- they`ve both been missing for about 20 minutes?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
MAYUMI HEENE: Oh, my God! Oh, my God! (INAUDIBLE) my son!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
RICHARD HEENE, FATHER: Did you hear us calling your name at any time?
FALCON HEENE, "BALLOON BOY": Uh-huh.
RICHARD HEENE: You did?
MAYUMI HEENE: You did?
RICHARD HEENE: Then why didn`t you come out?
FALCON HEENE: You guys said that we did this for a show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a hoax.
RICHARD HEENE: I`m really sorry I yelled at him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a publicity stunt.
RICHARD HEENE: Absolutely no hoax!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigator says Mayumi Heene came clean on the whole deal. Specifically, she said she lied to police.
MAYUMI HEENE: I don`t know what happened to the ties, but it got loose or something. So it`s flying!
911 OPERATOR: OK. You think he`s flying around in the air somewhere?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes.
RICHARD HEENE: He`s in the air!
911 OPERATOR: He`s in the air?
RICHARD HEENE: Yes. He`s only -- he`s only 6!
BOYS: (RAPPING) Let me tell you a story about three cool kids. We`re on "Wife Swap." We`re not some pigs. We go storm chasing with Mom and Dad. We are the Heene boys. We are fortified. We`re not whipped punks. We`re not (DELETED). We are the Heene boys. We are fortified. We`re not whipped punks. We`re not (DELETED)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And breaking news, Satsuma, Florida. A 5-year-old girl tucked into bed. Five hours later, she`s gone. Daddy comes home from the night shift to find not a trace of little Haleigh. The last person to see her alive, new stepmother Misty Croslin. Croslin flies to New York, taking to the airwaves to declare she`s innocent. But even in one brief interview, she can`t keep her story straight, including a 180 on a failed lie detector, claiming she passed, then admitting on TV she failed.
Bombshell tonight. According to sources inside the search and investigation, little Haleigh is dead. Search teams pack up and leave town, convinced Haleigh is no longer alive. Tonight, as insiders announce Haleigh is dead, Croslin goes AWOL, skipping town again. Why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: I pulled into the yard. The front door was wide open. She was standing in it. I asked her what she was doing up. She told me that the back door was wide open and Haleigh was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New developments in the case of missing 5-year-old Florida girl Haleigh Cummings. A searcher looking for Haleigh Cummings says he believes Haleigh is dead.
MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S EX-STEPMOTHER: I know I didn`t do anything to that little girl. I would never hurt her. They love me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The founder of Texas Equusearch, Tim Miller, believes Haleigh is no longer alive and authorities will be lucky to find her body. Miller says his group will no longer search for Haleigh as they only search for missing children who could possibly still be found alive.
GRACE: Ronald Cummings, did it ever disturb you that Misty Croslin`s story actually changed?
CUMMINGS: Yes, ma`am, it did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Putnam County authorities continue to work day and night on the case, poring through over 5,000 leads, hoping to find the one tip that could bring Haleigh home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We would love to have a break in this case, and we really would not care who it implicates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Misty has been deceptive, that her stories don`t make sense, and that the key to this case lies with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In other developments, stepmom-slash-baby-sitter Misty Croslin`s 911 call has been released.
CROSLIN: Some black guy just jumped in my car and stole my whole purse and threw me out the car and said he had a gun and said he was going to shoot me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Croslin called cops after being robbed at gunpoint while allegedly trying to buy drugs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With these highly addictive substances, we`ve seen people commit crazy crimes against their own family members because the drive of these drugs are so strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. A stunning confession blows the case wide open. We learn Mom confesses to police it was all a hoax from the get-go, the balloon hoax, the boy in the balloon. And video surfaces tonight of another attempt of Daddy using his own three boys as fodder for a different reality show. Tonight, we have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD HEENE: experimental flying saucer. It wasn`t supposed to fly.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
RICHARD HEENE: We thought we had this thing tethered down.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
RICHARD HEENE: And my -- I think my 6-year-old boy...
911 OPERATOR: What`s up?
RICHARD HEENE: He got inside and it took off!
He says he was hiding in the attic and -- because I yelled at him, and he scared the heck out of us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The act was convincing.
RICHARD HEENE: I`m really sorry I yelled at him!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First there was the tear-filled post-attic news conference, and then to top it off, you had the 911 call where quiet Mayumi Heene gives quite performance.
MAYUMI HEENE: We were doing experiment (INAUDIBLE) flying saucer made -- we made it here. And it`s supposed to be tied down so it`s just floating and it`s 20 feet up. But I don`t know what happened to the ties, but it got loose or something, so it`s flying!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is he flying around in the air somewhere?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then on CNN, the story started to crumble.
FALCON HEENE: You guys said that we did this for a show.
RICHARD HEENE: One of the guys told him it was for some TV show. So that`s what he was referring to. That`s what he was referring to when he made that statement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I know I want to point out that the sheriff`s office said last night that they believe your account of what happened, but they do want to question you a little bit more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing the Heene family on the NBC "Today" show.
Out to Nia Bender with 17 KNUS radio. I understand that Mommy made a confession.
NIA BENDER, KNUS: Mommy made a confession.
GRACE: After all this?
BENDER: She did.
GRACE: After all this, what happened?
BENDER: Apparently, she went ahead and confessed in an affidavit -- or when they were taking an affidavit, that she was aware of the whole thing, knew it was a hoax, that her husband knew it was a hoax, and they`d planned it for about two weeks before it took place.
GRACE: To Clark Goldband. Clark, give me the story surrounding this alleged confession by Mommy. After all we`ve been through, she coughs up to police just like that? They told their boys to lie to police and on TV?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER Well, it didn`t go exactly like that, Nancy. There was a bit more involved. and here`s how law enforcement convinced the wife to talk. In fact, what happened was they talked with the husband, they said -- now, this is on Saturday. The hoax happened Thursday. They said, Come on down to the police station, we`ve got the aircraft for you and we`ll turn it back. He comes down. They start questioning the husband.
At that time, law enforcement converges on the home of Mayumi and the children. They question her. She talks with them willingly, law enforcement says. They take her down and she begins to talk.
GRACE: And it`s my understanding, Clark Goldband, that the morning after, that the lawyers are all mad that the affidavit she submitted to was released. They don`t want the public to know the parents are admitting it was a hoax. They`re not talking about, Hey, we`re sorry we caused thousands and thousands of dollars, we had everybody upset, we used our own flesh and blood, our 6-year-old boy, we made him vomit on TV. They`re not worried about that. They`re mad that the affidavit was released. Am I right?
GOLDBAND: Yes, Nancy. And in addition to that, the husband`s attorney is also saying, Well, the confession may not be all that important because the wife`s command of the English language is not that great.
GRACE: Well, hold on. Hold on. Norm (ph), let`s play part of that 911 call. Let`s check out her English. OK, I`m waiting on that 911 call. Tell me when you`ve got it cued up, Norm. So -- you do have it? OK. Let`s roll.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Hello?
MAYUMI HEENE: Hi.
911 OPERATOR: Hi. What`s going on?
MAYUMI HEENE: We were doing experiment (INAUDIBLE) flying saucer made -- we made it here. And it`s supposed to be tied down, so it`s just floating and it`s 20 feet up. But I don`t know what happened to the ties, but it got loose or something, so it`s flying!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is he flying around in the air somewhere?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss, New York, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta, Daniel Horowitz, famed defense attorney, San Francisco. All right, Odom, give me your best shot. Now the lawyers are saying, the husband`s saying she has a problem with English? Did you hear the rest of that call? Not only is her English not fluent but perfect, she even knows how to inject emotion. This is all a big act. She`s crying. She sounds like she`s hyperventilating about her little boy that could die any moment.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Ultimately, Nancy, if this case ever goes to trial, if they`re ever charged with anything, it`s going to be a case about mitigation of sentencing...
GRACE: Put Odom`s face up.
ODOM: They don`t have criminal records...
GRACE: Put his face up. Why can`t you address -- you know, forget it, Odom. You had your chance. Horowitz, what do you have to say about that lame excuse she doesn`t speak English?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s a lame excuse. But it`s just one big hoax, Nancy. It`s the American tradition. It`s not really a great crime.
GRACE: OK, you know what? Tradition, BS. OK, Sue Moss, let`s hear it.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: This guy is the Joe Jackson of Colorado, and he`s going to be arrested. He`s going to be charged with filing a police report and child endangerment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Hello?
MAYUMI HEENE: Hi.
911 OPERATOR: Hi. What`s going on?
MAYUMI HEENE: We were doing experiment (INAUDIBLE) flying saucer made -- we made it here. And it`s supposed to be tied down, so it`s just floating and it`s 20 feet up. But I don`t know what happened to the ties, but it got loose or something, so it`s flying!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is he flying around in the air somewhere?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes! (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK.
So it was an experimental plane?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes. It`s a flying saucer.
911 OPERATOR: It`s a flying saucer?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: And that`s gone too, right?
MAYUMI HEENE: I`m sorry?
911 OPERATOR: How long -- is the flying saucer gone, as well?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes, about 20 minutes, I think.
911 OPERATOR: It`s -- they`ve both been missing for a bout 20 minutes?
MAYUMI HEENE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
MAYUMI HEENE: Oh, my God! Oh, my God! (INAUDIBLE) my son!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: And this is the mother who Richard Heene`s Colorado lawyer, David Lane (ph), says cannot speak English. All right. That is lame. At least if you`re going to come up with a story, come up with something I can kind of believe, that I can at least wonder if it`s true. We all heard that 911 call. Not only is she speaking perfect English, she`s also using perfect emotional inflection throughout to display her distress that her son is about to fall thousands of feet through the air to his death.
I have right here in my hands the affidavit -- let`s see the full screen of that, Norm -- that she signed, Mayumi Heene signed, where she states the hoax was planned approximately two weeks earlier, the flying saucer was specifically made to carry out the hoax, that she and her husband had instructed their children to lie to authorities, as well as to the media. There you have it.
But let`s take a look at video that we have just obtained of another failed attempt by the Heenes to use their children to make a reality show, to make some kind of a show for TV. You`re seeing it right there. That is video from TMZ.com of the Heene boys on a show produced by their father called "Box Time." And you`re going to see the little boy, I believe the youngest one, Falcon, jumping in and out of the box.
To Susan Moss. You`re the child advocate. What the hey is going on with this bunch?
MOSS: Oh, this is absolutely awful. I mean, these children are not only being taught how to lie, but they`re taught that they need to lie on such a grand scale that it caused one kid to throw up repeatedly on national television. This is just devastating. And there`ll be penalties for this.
GRACE: OK. What is Heene saying right there, Norm? Do we have sound with that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD HEENE: ... would you like me? I don`t think so. That`s what I`m saying. The boobs, fake, I think. What do you think, fake or real? Which is better? I`ve got a few other things I want to talk about...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, you know what, Norm? I don`t want to hear the rest. But what I do want to see is the rap video Mr. Heene apparently, allegedly, wrote and produced for his children. It`s been all over YouTube. And the title is a slur on women. Let`s hear the sound, Norm. Where are the lyrics?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOYS: (RAPPING) Let me tell you a story about three cool kids. We`re on "Wife Swap." We`re not some pigs. We go storm chasing with Mom and Dad. (INAUDIBLE) we`re out in the road, drop our pants (INAUDIBLE) Colorado, Dallas, Amarillo, Oklahoma City (INAUDIBLE) Omaha, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We`re going to show you those lyrics shortly. In another shot in that rap song, Peter Odom, Daniel Horowitz, defense attorneys joining us tonight, they actually have one of the children smeared in, I assume, fake excrement sitting on a commode. And you all know the lyrics by now. I`m sure our producer sent them to you. It`s full of filthy language, calling a gay guy a faggot up a tree, using slurs on women, sexual slurs on women. That little boy is 6 years old now, Daniel Horowitz. I don`t know how old he was when he was spewing that kind of filth on YouTube. What about it? You`ve got a child to raise now, a new child. What do you think, Horowitz?
HOROWITZ: Well, Nancy, unfortunately, I think it`s a sign of our times. This type of conduct is seemingly widespread, and he`s not going to lose his children because of it.
GRACE: Is that your best defense? I`m going to give you the commercial break to come up with something else.
HOROWITZ: All right.
GRACE: Everybody, as we go to break, congratulations to Georgia friend of the show, homecoming queen Miss Taylor Minton (ph), Miss West Side 2009. Now, coincidentally, it runs in the family. Her mother, Dana Graham Minton (ph), was on homecoming court several years ago. Congratulations, beautiful Taylor.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Right now to special guest joining us and taking your calls, Richard Heene`s, the balloon boy`s father, who apparently orchestrated the entire hoax, ex-wife, Patty, is with us. Patty, thank you for being with us. I understand that you guys were married, that you brought two children, daughters, into the marriage with you. What was his demeanor during your marriage? Why did you guys break up?
"PATTY", RICHARD HEENE`S EX-WIFE: We lived in a house of terror. It was run by terror.
GRACE: What do you mean by that?
PATTY: Well, like, for instance, when he kicked the platform that the balloon was on when it escaped, that`s a normal outburst several times a week.
GRACE: So what...
PATTY: He was always yelling and screaming...
GRACE: What effect did that have on your children?
PATTY: My kids were terrified. They and I, too. We both -- we all were terrified. He abused me a couple times. I had to call the police and file reports.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hate these pajamas. This pajamas always stick to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pajamas are (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Singing) Let me tell you a story about three cool kids. We`re on Wife Swap. We`re not some pigs. We go storm chasing with Mom and Dad. In a tornado and make us glad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We eat Slim Jim`s, we`re out in the road. Drop our pants, we take a big load.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Texas, Colorado, Dallas, Amarillo, South Dakota, North Dakota, Kansas City too. Oklahoma City girls got big (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Gainesboro, Wichita, Omaha, too, half passed the monkey`s ass quarter to his (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We chase dirt devils, get sand in our pants. Our flies are itching, it`s the fire ants. If you try to (INAUDIBLE) us, and can`t keep us. If you`re talking about me, then shut the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s my momma and a big white (INAUDIBLE). People are plastic, you pay it in cash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Ryo, I love big trains. I`ll run your ass over if I think you`re a pain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s my papa and make it (INAUDIBLE). Take it away, Daddy, he ain`t no (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am Bradford, I am number one. I get good grades, let`s have some fun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: OK. It gets worse after that. And I`m leaving out the part where you have the sex slurs on women.
I want to go back to Patty, Richard Heene`s ex-wife. You alluded to the fact that you got out of the relationship because your children were in fear. What, if anything, did Mr. Heene do allegedly that caused your children to be afraid, your two little girls?
PATTY, "BALLOON BOY" DAD, RICHARD HEENE`S EX-WIFE: Well, they watched him verbally throw fits and throw things at us. He was like a master of mental warfare. He put us down, hollered at us a lot.
He pushed me one time over a couch and then flipped the couch with me and the children on it. Threw things at me, and sometimes the things, you know, would not hit me but hit them.
I filed a police report in Lake Arrowhead, California. And that was the night that he flipped us over the couch and flipped the couch and.
GRACE: OK.
PATTY: He left marks on me from throwing things.
GRACE: With me is Patty. This is Heene`s ex-wife. Giving a little insight into their family life.
Out to the lines, Tamara in Texas. Hi, dear.
TAMARA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question?
TAMARA: first of all, let me tell you, God bless your family. God bless your twins. And they`re just adorable.
GRACE: And they`re almost 2.
TAMARA: I know it.
GRACE: It went by just like that.
TAMARA: But with this Heene family, Nancy, shouldn`t there be somebody, CPA or some kind of -- you know, these kids are going to need counseling for so, so long. And I cannot believe -- to me the parents need to be thrown under the jail and these kids need to be got out of the environment they`re in. And maybe it won`t be too late to fix them.
GRACE: To Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist and M.D., what about Tamara`s point?
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, I mean, clearly they do need some intervention, some psychological evaluations. And my hope is that the kids wouldn`t get taken away from the parents but some real strict -- you know, if somebody has to go to jail and they go to jail and you keep this family together and teach them about how to raise their kids from here on. Because potentially that could be more destructive if you remove these kids.
GRACE: Right. Out to the lines, Ann in Iowa. Hi, Ann.
ANN, CALLER FROM IOWA: Hi, Nancy. First of all, prayers for your mom`s recovery coming from Iowa.
GRACE: Thank you so much. This is a blouse she gave me for my birthday last week. I`ll pass that on to her. Thank you. What`s your question, dear?
ANN: I`m a parent and a grandparent, and I don`t condone anything that I`ve watched about this family. My question, though, is do you think that possibly the mom confessed, A, to potentially avoid prosecution but, B, to possibly think that it was the only way to get out of an abusive relationship?
GRACE: Excellent question. Sue Moss, Peter Odom, Daniel Horowitz. There`s nothing that says police cannot trick you into a confession. Miranda applies when you are in custody. She was not in custody. She was in her own home. So that`s not going to apply here.
So do you think she did this to avoid prosecution of her, of herself, Peter Odom?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It very well could be, Nancy. The authorities are no doubt going to use her confession. They`re going to try and get her to cooperate against him.
GRACE: Right.
ODOM: And if he`s as abusive as people are talking about, that might just happen.
GRACE: OK, guys. I`m hearing in my ear we are going live now to our story on little Haleigh Cummings. Insiders in the investigation and the search now say the little girl is definitely dead. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ronald, do you feel that Misty is the key to this investigation?
RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: No, I don`t. I think they`re barking up the wrong tree.
GRACE: I don`t believe you. I think you do suspect your ex-wife, soon to be ex-wife`s story.
MISTY CROSLIN-CUMMINGS, RONALD CUMMING`S WIFE, LAST SEEN HALEIGH: I seen the back door open, and then I go and look and she`s gone. And that`s all I know.
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, SPENT TIME WITH MISSING HALEIGH`S FAMILY: Here`s the back screen door, the one that was propped open with the cinder block. OK? Now, if you see when it closes, it slams, it makes a loud noise. But if you leave this door, this slowly closes as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is such a travesty and such a circus that I`m waiting for the acrobats to come in. It`s one ridiculous story on top of another. It`s all very ludicrous. And what about Haleigh?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ron marries a woman that is questionable as to losing his child. And his child is missing, maybe being raped and tortured.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If this girl keeps doing what she`s doing, it`s only a question of time before she`s charged with something having to do with this kid`s disappearance. She just repeatedly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Art Harris, investigative journalist at Artharris.com. Art, people inside the search now saying they`re packing up and leaving town. They`ve left.
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, ARTHARRIS.COM: Right, Nancy, I talked to.
GRACE: They say Haleigh is dead. Why?
HARRIS: I talked to Tim Miller a little while ago. He believes that Haleigh is dead. Not so much for the evidence that he has but for the lack of it. He is the one who set up the polygraph. Nothing she has said has helped investigators at all. So many inconsistencies.
And nothing solid has led anybody to believe that she is alive. They can`t prove she`s alive. They`ve traced down, tracked down leads, about possible sightings, about one side of the family or the other.
GRACE: But, Art. Art, this pronouncement that Haleigh is in fact dead is coming from people inside the search and people that have had personal access to Misty Croslin, the new stepmother. What, if anything, has she revealed that makes them so sure it`s over?
HARRIS: Nancy, it`s pretty much what she hasn`t revealed and what she -- they believe she is hiding. And I`ve spoken with people in the investigation, and they agree with Miller privately. They will not say so publicly. They say they`re treating this as if a child is still missing, but they investigate it the same way.
GRACE: Joining me right now, a special guest, Teresa Neves. This is the paternal grandmother who has been front and center since the day Haleigh went missing trying to find her, trying to publicize her photo.
And the tip line, which is 888-277-8477. There is a reward for information.
Teresa, I know that you disagree with search insiders that say she is dead. Give me your side.
TERESA NEVES, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING GIRL, HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I absolutely disagree 100 percent. I believe that God hears prayer. I believe that there have been thousands and thousands of prayers for Haleigh. I believe that she`s alive. And I do not believe that Tim Miller is god or has a straight line to god. So until he can produce something else, I don`t -- I just refuse to believe that my granddaughter is not alive and with us.
GRACE: Well, Miss Neves, if the Lord listens to a sinner, I hope he`s heard my prayers, because I and so many other people are praying that you are right.
We are taking your calls tonight on Haleigh Cummings.
I want to first give you tonight`s safety tips. A baby can drown in less than two inches of water. Keep your baby safe at bath time. Never leave the child alone. Have all your bathing supplies ready at one time. And if you forget something, take the baby with you if you`ve got to step away.
Baby bathtubs can help stabilize a wet slippery child so they don`t fall. But they should be slip resistant, made of thick plastic and stay firm under the weight of water. Stay away from those bath rings and flotation devices and suction seats that don`t have restraints.
They flip over, and babies can drown, and baby`s stuck in the circle. Always drain the tub completely when you`re through. And know CPR. For more info go to kidshealth.org.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So are you saying that you didn`t fail the polygraph like people and law enforcement are kind of claiming that you did?
M. CUMMINGS: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: OK. So bottom line, you don`t know where Haleigh is?
M. CUMMINGS: Bottom line.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news in the case of missing 5-year- old Florida girl Haleigh Cummings. The head of a search group involved in trying to find Haleigh admits he`s convinced that Haleigh is dead.
GRACE: Do not lie to me. You`ve never lied to me before to my knowledge. Don`t tell me that you didn`t know police want to talk to her again.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Founder of Texas EquuSearch Tim Miller says his group focuses on children who still have a chance to be alive, and that does not include little Haleigh Cummings. The family disagrees, maintaining their hope that Haleigh is still alive, being held against her will.
NEVES: I believe Haleigh is alive. I have faith in God to take care of my baby girl and find her. And I don`t care who had something to do with it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Meanwhile, Croslin`s 911 call released. Misty Croslin called 911 last week after being robbed while allegedly trying to score drugs.
M. CUMMINGS: Oh, my god, my leg and my arm hurt so bad.
911 OPERATOR: Do you need an ambulance?
M. CUMMINGS: Yes, I think so. Oh, my god. My purse is ripped. I can`t move it. I can`t move it. I can`t move it.
GRACE: You have made an accusation that Croslin was on a drug binge. Do you have any evidence to support that claim?
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, MOM OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: No, I don`t.
GRACE: Then why did you say it?
SHEFFIELD: It was just a thought. I mean maybe she was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, my apologies to Crystal Sheffield, the ex-wife of Ronald Cummings, because apparently when the new stepmother, Misty Croslin, calls 911, her two cohorts with her are saying they`re out scoring dope when they get armed robbed.
Now that`s a good one. Let me go to the lawyers.
Susan Moss, what does she say to cops? Come help me, the dope dealer robbed me of my dope and money?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: If you lay down with fleas, you know what they say. This is just absolutely ridiculous. And it really shows what type of person we`re dealing with and the fact that her credibility is absolutely nil.
This is just one further step to get her to hopefully, hopefully break because she is the key to tell us where this kid is.
GRACE: Norm, let`s hear that 911 call where she was allegedly scoring dope.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: I need to you stay on the phone with me. OK?
M. CUMMINGS: Oh, my god, my leg and my arm hurt so bad.
911 OPERATOR: Do you need an ambulance?
M. CUMMINGS: Yes, I think so. Oh, my god. My purse is ripped. I can`t move it. I can`t move it. I can`t move it.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Stay on the phone with me. OK?
M. CUMMINGS: OK. Oh, my god.
911 OPERATOR: Do you know what he was wearing?
M. CUMMINGS: All black. I know where he -- which way he ran.
911 OPERATOR: What did his gun look like?
M. CUMMINGS: I don`t know, he just.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You go score some dope right near a crack house, and then you call police crying because Mr. Dope Dealer grabbed your arm during the transaction and you got a bruise. OK. I think that sums it up.
Let`s get back to the issue at hand.
To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, what can you tell me about reports of insiders with access to Croslin who say this child is dead?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, that`s Tim Miller. He`s the founder of Texas EquuSearch. He is saying that after being with Misty Croslin during that polygraph that he set up, after that layered voice analysis, he says that she keeps insisting that Haleigh is alive, which makes him think that Haleigh is actually dead and they`re not going to find her.
GRACE: To Marlaina Schiavo, when she says that on the lie detector, that the child is alive, was that proven to be a lie?
SCHIAVO: According to Tim and his polygrapher, yes. I mean, they said that it was full of deceit, all of the answers that she was giving. But at the same time, Nancy, we have to keep in mind that as much as Tim Miller doesn`t have any evidence that she`s still alive, he hasn`t really given us much evidence that she is dead.
GRACE: Absolutely correct. And that is the point made by grandmother Teresa Neves. I want to go to Ron Shindel, former NYPD deputy inspector. What, if anything, can police do now? They seem to be at a dead end.
RON SHINDEL, FORMER NYPD DEPUTY INSPECTOR: Nancy, they have to keep going out doing standard, good old-fashioned detective work. Keep shaking the trees, keep interviewing people, keep following leads even if they don`t seem important.
You have to get out there. Someone knows something. And you have to keep searching at this point and keep the pressure on.
GRACE: Joining me right now, Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner, Broward County, author of "When to Call the Doctor," renowned in his field.
Dr. Perper, if this child was killed that night, let`s say she was not put in a trash dump or anything like that. Her body was put out in the elements, which would be the most logical thing to do given the time constraint. Could she be identifiable now? Would her remains be identifiable?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": Considering all the month which passed since her death, most likely now the body show advanced decomposition changes, which should make identification difficult, although some tissue might be still present for DNA identification. But the advanced decomposition is also to make -- is also going to make difficult the determination of the cause of death if the injuries are limited to soft tissue injuries.
GRACE: You mean like a strangulation or a smothering?
PERPER: Correct. Or even a beating even or even a stabbing if the soft tissue has melted away.
GRACE: Right.
PERPER: Only they are injuries of the hard tissue, of the bones, then it would be possible to conclude what really happened to the child.
GRACE: Back to Art Harris, investigative journalist at Artharris.com, just as this announcement comes out by searchers and those inside the investigation, she leaves town again. Why?
HARRIS: Nancy, she is feeling the heat. She has no place to stay, overstayed her welcome with the two girls who she was on the alleged drug buy with that night. She`s taking a bus to Nashville to stay with her grandmother. I just got off the phone with Flora Holler (ph) at the national. She said Misty is welcomed to be with her. She hopes that she will confide in her. And if she does, she`ll be calling authorities.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Joining me tonight, special guest, Teresa Neves. This is Haleigh`s grandmother who refutes claims the child is dead. We`ll be back with her.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What did Misty tell you that night about where Haleigh was sleeping.
R. CUMMINGS: Her and Junior were sleeping in my queen-sized bed and she was sleeping in the top bed beside her, three or four feet from her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That story changed. Several times.
Out to the lines, Lorraine, New Jersey. Hi, Lorraine.
LORRAINE, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Hi, Nancy. One question was kind of answered. I have another one. The one question I was going to ask you, I wonder if they have any evidence that they`re just not wanting to reveal right now, and number two, Haleigh has Turner syndrome. I understand she has to use an inhaler because she has asthma. She has been gone so long without her inhaler, could she possibly have died from an asthma attack? I mean, she`s little. If she can`t breathe, I mean, well, somebody has to.
GRACE: Let`s go to grandma on this. Teresa Neves with us.
Teresa, how often did she have to use that inhaler? Could she have survived without it?
NEVES: Yes, ma`am. The inhaler was basically for her to have -- if she had a -- like the pneumonia symptoms starting.
GRACE: Right.
NEVES: She would have an inhaler. She actually had two different inhalers so one that she could use before it started and one if it got bad and, you know, before she went to the hospital.
GRACE: Tammy, New York. Hi, Tammy.
TAMMY, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Good evening, Nancy. So nice to meet you.
GRACE: Likewise.
TAMMY: You are my idol and I respect everything you do.
GRACE: I do not deserve that but thank you for your compliment. What is your question, dear?
TAMMY: When her brother, the girl`s brother that came to the home.
GRACE: Right.
TAMMY: At the request of Haleigh`s dad knocking that night, have they learned whether he noticed the back door propped open at that time?
GRACE: Good question. To Teresa Neves, you`ve heard the story that he told police he came to the home that night Haleigh goes missing and nobody answered the door. This is around a quarter to 10:00. According to him, did he notice whether the back door was open or shut?
NEVES: I have not spoken with Tommy.
GRACE: OK. Well, from my knowledge of his statement he did not go around back. I`ve just got a couple of seconds. Miss Neves, in your heart you truly believe Haleigh`s still alive regardless of what the insiders say.
NEVES: Absolutely. Absolutely.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Private First Class Steven Walberg, just 18, Paradise, California, killed Iraq. Dreamed of enlisting since 7 years old and would carry backpacks. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation Medal.
Lost his life protecting a colonel during a sniper attack. Loved math, physics, mentoring program. Favorite album "Top Gun" sound track. Leaves behind parents Karen and Steve, sister Leanna, brother, Jason.
Steven Walberg, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
