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Where Is H1N1 Vaccine?; Interview With Pennsylvania Senator Bob Casey

Aired October 27, 2009 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: Coming at you now: H1N1, a national emergency, so where's the vaccine?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm amazed at the lack of response.

GRIFFIN: And who's responsible?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We share the frustration of people.

GRIFFIN: Congress holding feet to the fire this hour.

A follow-up on a CNN special investigation, foreign exchange students.

CARLOS VILLARREAL, FOREIGN EXCHANGE STUDENT: I ended up in a house with a couple of ex-convicts with low amounts of food.

GRIFFIN: Senator Bob Casey outraged by stories like Carlos Villarreal's. The senator joins me as the investigation into abused students wraps up.

Fed up with bankers? These protests crash a convention of them.

And you just never know what your reaction would be during an armed robbery, but this guy gets a new record for unfazed.

Your national conversation for Tuesday, October 27, 2009, starts right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Hello, everybody. I'm Drew Griffin, in for Rick Sanchez today.

Over the weekend, President Obama declared the H1N1 swine flu crisis a national emergency. On Capitol Hill at this hour, a House subcommittee is discussing -- discussing efforts to fight that outbreak.

Now, I want you to take a look at this map from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The flu, both H1N1 and seasonal flu, is widespread in every one of the states in brown. That is every state, except those little guys, Connecticut, New Jersey, South Carolina, Hawaii, and the District of Columbia. And the one question we're getting on our Twitter board, where is my vaccine? The president's kids apparently got it last week, but a lot of parents can't get it for their kids. Take a look what they're saying on Twitter right now.

This is jmag7699: "We need to have a real discussion on the pace of these vaccines. We can move an army, but can't get out the vaccine. Priorities?"

How about San Diego says: "From the beginning, the Obama administration took the threat of H1N1 virus way too lightly, and now all of us are paying the price."

And let's drop down to krayoncolorz: "Rick, I'm trying to get my family vaccinated, and we can't get it. I have got two kids under 2, and can't get them the shot."

So, where are the shots? At one point, we have been told there would be 40 million doses on hand by -- by now. They're nowhere near that goal, but the CDC says things are getting better.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: We wish we had more vaccine available now. We wish it had been available weeks or even months earlier. But we're beginning to get to a significant increase in the availability.

If you just look from last week to this, we went from about 14 million doses last Wednesday available to today 22.4 million. That's an increase in eight million doses in about a week or a little less than a week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: We have known about the swine flu for months. Why is it taking so much time to produce and distribute this vaccine? Here's what CNN's Mary Snow found out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With lines like this one in Salt Lake City, it's clear there's a demand for H1N1 vaccines. But where are they? Health officials say a delay in vaccine production comes down to a 50- year-old technology that relies on eggs.

REAR ADMIRAL DR. ANNE SCHUCHAT, SCIENCE AND PUBLIC HEALTH PROGRAM, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: It's a tried- and-true method, but it's not perfectly predictable. Some viruses grow quickly in eggs. Some don't grow as well. And what happened with this year's H1N1 vaccine is that several of the manufacturers had challenges in getting a lot of the virus, the vaccine virus, out of those eggs. And, so, we have a delay.

SNOW: That delay doesn't surprise Dan Adams, who told us this back in July.

DAN ADAMS, CEO, PROTEIN SCIENCES: No matter what you think, the way that the major pharmaceutical companies make flu vaccines is not going to solve a real pandemic problem. It takes too long to get there.

SNOW: Adams is the CEO of biotech Protein Sciences and uses insect cells and not eggs to make vaccines. The company doesn't have yet a license to make H1N1 vaccines. But his company isn't the only one using different technologies.

ALAN SHAW, CEO, VAXINNATE: This is the equivalent of about 100,000 eggs.

SNOW: Alan Shaw's biotech firm VaxInnate uses proteins and bacteria.

(On camera): Why is it so much faster?

SHAW: E. Coli double every 20 minutes. A hen will lay an egg once a day. Roughly.

SNOW (voice-over): This company is applying for federal money, but the government has already invested in others including Protein Sciences. As it seeks alternatives to using eggs, critics ask should the government have invested in alternative technologies earlier?

SCHUCHAT: We're optimistic that over the years ahead, some of these new technologies will bear fruit but none of them were ready for this pandemic. It's a -- it's just a sad truth that the pandemic came too early basically.

SNOW: Currently the government has contracts for H1N1 vaccines with five companies, all of which make the vaccine the same way.

ANDREW PEKOSZ, JOHNS HOPKINS BLOOMBERG SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: And since growing the virus in eggs is the only FDA-approved means of generating the vaccine, that really becomes our major stumbling block right now.

SNOW (on camera): MedImmune is having less difficulty with its nasal spray vaccine, but it's not for everyone. It is approved for those ages 2 to 49 who don't have underlying illnesses, but it's not recommended for pregnant women, because it contains a live virus.

Mary Snow, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: And joining us from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Assistant Surgeon General Dr. Anne Schuchat.

Thanks for joining us. We did see you in that piece.

And I have got to ask you the one question everybody is asking me. Where can I get the swine flu vaccine? When is it going to be available for the rest of us?

SCHUCHAT: It's such a frustrating time for people. Everyone is interested in being vaccinated, and that's a good thing. But, unfortunately, we have had delays in the production.

The manufacturers had some challenges. And little by little, things are getting better, but it's not fast enough. Today, 22.4 million doses are available for states to order. And that's a lot more than last week, but it's not enough. And so patience is a hard thing to ask for at a time like this. But I can say that states are getting vaccine at the many sites that they have directed the vaccine to. And over the weeks ahead, it should be easier.

But I recognize that this is really frustrating for everybody.

GRIFFIN: Well, Dr. Schuchat, we get the word over the weekend the president's called this a national emergency and yet there's nothing anybody can do about it, but wash their hands and try to stay away from everybody else. I know that you can understand the frustration.

But is it time to look back at how we develop these flu vaccines, how we prepare for next season's flu? Because what it looks like now is everybody's going to have this flu before we can get the vaccine.

SCHUCHAT: I think the vaccine still can offer an awful lot of protection to many, many people. Disease is around. There's a lot of disease out there, but I think more is yet to come. And so even though we wish we had more vaccine now and wish we would have more next week, the vaccine that we have is important to use and we will be getting more. And I really think it's important for people to get vaccinated.

But the future is a very important topic. The government has been investing in new vaccine technologies for a couple of years, but we haven't probably invested as heavily as we should have. And there's a lot more to do. And, unfortunately, investing in new technologies doesn't automatically get you a result. It can take years to get those breakthroughs. And of course we want to make sure that products that are promising bear fruit, in terms of the safety and the effectiveness.

So, I think there's a lot of potential growth in getting better flu vaccines in the future, but for this pandemic, we need to use the eggs. That's the only technology that was ready, that was tested, tried and true. And, unfortunately, we are dependent in these viruses growing in eggs.

And switching strains around, some of the companies are getting better takes right now. But, week by week, there will be more. The first several weeks have been quite challenging.

GRIFFIN: Doctor, I have got to tell you, I'm just wondering, are we doing enough now for the future, or does this whole process need to go through a post-Katrina FEMA type overhaul? Is this system just out of whack with present-day society? SCHUCHAT: Well, you mean the vaccine technology?

GRIFFIN: I mean the vaccine technology, identifying the strains, identifying how these manufacturers can more effectively get this stuff out.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHUCHAT: Right. The vaccine production review, I think that's a reasonable idea. But I can say there's an awful lot of oversight that goes into the manufacturers' work.

(CROSSTALK)

GRIFFIN: Well, apparently not enough.

SCHUCHAT: Well, no, I think in terms of the safety and the processes they use.

But, frankly, you wouldn't believe how many strains you need to test to get good growers in eggs. Every year, for seasonal flu, my lab here at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is one of World Health Organization's international collaborating centers for flu. They help select the strains that go into the flu vaccine for global use, for Southern Hemisphere, as well as Northern Hemisphere.

And I was stunned to find out how challenging it is to get year by year viruses that grow well in eggs, but, yet, eggs are what we're stuck with right now. So, I think that the long-term investments in other technologies are important.

But, with influenza, things don't often get fixed right away. It can take a long time to get the science to cooperate in terms of getting better vaccines. Everybody wants a vaccine that would be universally protective. We wouldn't have to make a new one every year. That would be fantastic.

But we don't have that yet. And I think this -- this experience America's going through with the rest of the world perhaps will get us some more commitment for long-term research and development.

GRIFFIN: All right, we will sit around and wait for that shot.

Thanks a lot, Doctor. I hope things can smooth out and we can get this vaccine on the table to a lot of people before they actually need it, because right now this, as you know, has spread nationwide.

Thanks, Doctor.

SCHUCHAT: Sure. My pleasure.

And a reminder we want to tell you, Everything you want to know about the H1N1 virus, of course, except where you can get, you know, the immunization, you can get it by visiting the new and improved Web site. Just go to CNN.com and click on health. You can customize this site to give all the news that you want. All right, remember this guy? Well, he went to jail for allegedly attacking a woman at a Cracker Barrel restaurant. Today, he's asking a judge to get out. Well, is he going to be released? We're going to let you know what the judge decided next.

And a roadside bomb kills eight U.S. troops in Afghanistan. It was just yesterday reported the single deadliest day for American forces there in four years. We're going to go live to Afghanistan in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Let's get you to the Twitter board and show you what people are saying about our flu story.

Here, "Tired of 2001," writes Chris, "fear-mongering? Remember SARS?"

How about this one? "It's the flu. Just be careful. Everyone needs to stop freaking out about it. People die of flu each year."

And how about this? "Shortage of vaccine and Tamiflu makes me feel sorry for anybody that gets sick. Shows how ready our country is for epidemic."

Well, we have got an update on a story of a Georgia man. He was accused in a -- really a nasty racially motivated nasty beating. It happened at a Cracker Barrel restaurant near Atlanta. Rick first told you about this one back in September.

Here is the guy, Troy Dale West. West is accused of viciously beating an Army reservist, Tasha Hill, while her 7-year-old daughter watched. Prosecutors say West also yelled racial slurs. So now the FBI is involved, too, using surveillance tapes to determine whether this was a hate crime.

Hill claims all she did was ask this guy to be more careful with the restaurant door, which she says almost hit her child. but West says she spat on him, and that's why he attacked her, as if that's an excuse. West faces a long list of felonies, including aggravated assault, first-degree cruelty to children and battery.

He was hoping to get out of jail, appearing in court today for a bond hearing, but the judge delayed making any decision at all, saying she needed more time to review the evidence.

Here's a phrase we want to investigate today, multiple complex IED attacks. Commanders say that is what was behind today's horrific death toll of American troops. But have we ever seen this kind of complexity in Afghanistan before? I will ask that question when we go live to Kabul next.

And the latest on the pilots who overshot their landing. Now that we know what they were doing, the question is what were they thinking? I will talk to a pilot a little later in the show.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: We want to keep the conversation going over on MySpace, not just Twitter. But take a look at this: "I have got an 11-month- old. I think I'm going to turn away trick-or-treaters, this because of H1N1."

If you don't think people are scared of the flu, take a look at that.

As we continue now, two days in Afghanistan, two straight days of horrible news involving American soldiers there, today alone, eight U.S. service members killed. It happened in two separate bomb explosions, both in southern Afghanistan. And that gives this month, October 2009, a bad distinction.

CNN's Chris Lawrence is in Kabul.

Chris, can you tell us exactly in as much detail as you can what you know about what happened here?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Drew, we know that they're being called coordinated complex attacks.

And what that means is, the insurgents set off at least one or more roadside bombs and then at the same time followed up with small- arms fire. That suggests a possible ambush. And that is a tactic that the insurgents have been using here in Afghanistan.

Now, we also know from defense officials that these were all U.S. Army soldiers who were involved in this attack, and that it was two attacks. Seven soldiers were killed in one. One American soldier was killed in another attack. They were all in their armored vehicles when these attacks took place -- Drew.

GRIFFIN: What is so alarming about this is once again we're hearing news that basically our U.S. soldiers over there were defenseless in this attack. Last month, they were basically sitting ducks at that outpost with the insurgents looking down on them from the mountaintops. And, in this case, a coordinated roadside attack as I'm assuming these guys are just driving along in their Humvees or armored vehicles.

LAWRENCE: It's always one of the biggest fears. In fact, the Pentagon says that IEDs are the number-one threat, the number-one killer of American troops here.

And some senior defense officials have told us that over the past year, compared to last year, the Taliban has increased its capacity to build bombs, to train attackers and to strategically target American troops, with the intention of killing or hurting them.

Just last month down in Kandahar, U.S. troops found about five tons of ammonium nitrate. That is twice the amount that was used in the Oklahoma City bombing. So, some of these bombs are not only being strategically placed. They're also more powerful than we saw in years past. GRIFFIN: Chris, I may -- I realize you may be limited in your contact with soldiers, with getting out of Kabul. I know there's a lot of safety concerns. But do you sense frustration amongst -- among the rank-and-file troop of what they're supposed to be doing here, whether or not this decision is going to be made in Washington, as their colleagues it seems like every day are under attack every day and being killed? Is there a growing sense of frustration among soldiers, if you know?

LAWRENCE: I am always wary when people characterize tens of thousands of soldiers and Marines in any one way.

I can tell you I have talked to troops who are frustrated. And I can tell you I have talked to other troops who feel like they don't even think about the big picture in Washington. They're only focused on the day-to-day, and they let all that stuff work itself out on its own.

So, I think, with the sheer number of troops here, you're going to get a lot of different emotions, a lot of different feelings across the board.

GRIFFIN: Well, we're behind all of them, Chris. And thanks a lot for bringing that live report to us so late at night in Kabul. Thank you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Students becoming raped, placed in the homes of convicted felons, placed in the homes of registered sex offenders, come to the United States and lose 20, 30, 40 pounds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: It's tough enough to send your son or daughter to a foreign country, but imagine you find out their host family withheld food, kept them in horrible living conditions with convicted criminals. Today, I have a follow-up on an exchange program.

And we're hours away from the release of Michael Jackson's last film, and at least one Jackson family member is not pleased. That straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Man, I got a Twitter I just got to show you and read it over and over again.

Look what Charles Winter writes. "Hey, watching Drew Griffin filling in for Rick Sanchez, he isn't doing so bad."

(LAUGHTER)

GRIFFIN: Gokugirl: "The H1N1 virus has become a widespread pandemic. So far, the national emergency response has exceeded beyond capacity." And Ketzal still talking about swine flu right there: "Would get the H1N1 vaccine if it were available."

Me too, Ketzal.

A hot new album and now a documentary movie -- Michael Jackson's legend lives on and so apparently do the controversies. Check this out. We're going to show you scenes from the highly anticipated movie, "This Is It." That's the name of the movie, "This Is It." It opens today in select theaters across the country and officially opens nationwide tomorrow.

The film, we're told, a compelling montage of the scenes recorded during rehearsals for Jackson's comeback tour, but are they really? A tabloid is claiming that the singer's father, Joe Jackson, is questioning the movie's authenticity, saying he believes body doubles were used.

But don't tell that to Elizabeth Taylor. She let loose a litany of tweets on her Twitter page, gushing over how great this movie is and how it should be nominated for an award in every category.

By the way, the film's producers are slamming that body-doubles theory. Sony Entertainment, which bankrolled the flick, is calling the tabloid report of a body double -- quoting here now -- "pure garbage."

That's a bird's-eye view of a militant target demolished by Pakistan air fire. And it's las "Fotos" coming up.

And my follow-up to a disturbing story about exchange students who were abused. Where? Here. Something finally being done about it. My interview with Senator Bob Casey, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: We were stunned earlier this year when we found out foreign exchange students, students from other countries visiting the U.S. were having a terrible time here, not just terrible, but in some cases dangerous to their health and their safety, even more stunned when we found all this was being done with U.S. State Department money and with supposedly U.S. State Department oversight.

So, we're finally now seeing some actions.

But, first, I want you to just take a look at some of the kids describing the conditions they were living under.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Tanzanian Musa Mpulki was told was told he'd be living with a pre-screened, loving family. He ended up in a second-floor apartment with a 72-year-old man and hardly any food.

(on camera): You're the guy that passed out at track? MUSA MPULKI, FOREIGN EXCHANGE STUDENT: Yes.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Carlos Villarreal came here from Colombia, for a year in high school. It cost his family $13,000.

CARLOS VILLARREAL, FOREIGN EXCHANGE STUDENT: I ended up in a house living with a couple of ex-convicts with low amounts of food, which I lost a lot of body weight, and in a non-safe environment.

GRIFFIN: There was a drug bust on this street the week Carlos moved in. His hosts? A local reverend who according to the local prosecutor also houses his drug-dealing grandson.

(on camera): Did you starve him?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Huh?

GRIFFIN: Were you not feeding him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Do you think I would have him and not feed him? I have two of my own. He ate. I bought -- get that camera off me, will you, please?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: That was the host.

Well, we weren't the only ones outraged. In fact, we got a tip from this guy's office, Senator Bob Casey from Pennsylvania. He joins us now live in Washington.

And, Senator, you vowed to do something about this. You did. So, is something being done over at the State Department in terms of responding to your questions?

SEN. BOB CASEY (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Yes, Drew, the beginnings of change have already been underway, but I think there's more urgency to it now because of the inspector general's report that we're just seeing the results of now.

And what you see in that report is a -- is very similar to the kinds of conclusions that I and others have reached in the last couple of weeks and months and it reminds me, frankly, of some of the work that I did when I was in state government as a -- a decade as the state auditor and a state treasure at the end of that decade where you see lack of oversight, lack of compliance with rules and regulation, bad monitoring, not enough personnel focus on a very urgent problem.

Because this is candidly about whether or not we're going to take care of young people who come here for a positive experience in America with more education, with more of an exposure to our way of life. But if we allow them to exist in conditions like this, not only is that bad for that young person and their family, it's terrible and very harmful for our international relations.

GRIFFIN: And I want to point out that that inspector general's report basically admitted everything that we've heard about this program, but as you pointed out, Senator, that the State Department knew in 1999, that the State Department knew in 2000, that the State Department knew in 2006. So, I'm wondering -- as an overseer of the State Department, one of 100 up there -- what is going to happen? What do you want from the State Department?

CASEY: Well, first of all we have to make sure that the State Department responds very directly to each of these conclusions. We have to monitor very closely whether they're not -- whether or not they're doing a better job of oversight, whether or not they've complied with the conclusions reached by the inspector general.

And that will require that people like me and members of the foreign relations committee -- in our oversight of the department -- that we continue to ask the questions that I have been asking for months and getting some answers to, I should add, by the State Department.

But this requires a lot of monitoring, a lot of scrutiny, in a relentless pursuit of making sure that these problems that have been highlighted by me and by others, and now by the inspector general, are, in fact, dealt with appropriately.

GRIFFIN: Senator, I'm going to ask you one more question and it's kind of a bigger question actually -- because I always look at these programs from the money aspect. From what I read from the inspector general's report, we're going to spend about $43 million on this program, and it sounds like all of the solutions -- according to the State Department -- are: we need more money, we need more personnel, we need more people to investigate these claims.

At what point do you say, as a U.S. senator, "You know what, maybe this just isn't worth the bang for the buck"? We're bringing a couple of thousand kids over here. We're spending all this money on it. Obviously, the State Department has no control over the situation. At what point do we say, "Close it down, let's just let the private sector deal with this"?

CASEY: Well, I don't think we're anywhere near that point yet. I do believe that dollars and resources, personnel and technology are critically important. I saw that in state government. But underlying that and actually preceding that has to be a commitment by any government agency to accomplish its mission.

And when you have a report like this, and it may be a very limited instance, and maybe by far the exception to the rule, you have to have a new sense of urgency and commitment to making sure that these problems aren't occurring. And it's not only -- as you mentioned -- just a question of money and resources, it's a question of whether or not the people in this particular part of the State Department, the Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs, are going to get very serious, very quickly about implementing the changes that have to take place, even before -- even before -- they get more resources.

I'll help them and support more resources, but I need to see a renewed commitment to making this program work.

Undersecretary McHale, I think, has taken positive steps in this direction, but we look forward to working with her. But she and others have to demonstrate, not only to me and to the Congress, but, I think, to the American people -- that if a young person from a foreign country comes to this nation for an educational experience, it has to be positive, they have to -- they have to be safe. And if there's any problem at all, that young person should be able to reach out instantaneously and get a response from our government to deal with any issue that arises.

GRIFFIN: Senator, thanks for joining us. Thanks for your commitment to this issue. I know it struck home when it hit in Pennsylvania. So, we'll continue to follow your progress as you try to clean up this mess. Thanks, Senator.

CASEY: Drew, thank you for covering it.

GRIFFIN: OK, Senator Bob Casey from Pennsylvania.

I did talk to the State Department when we first learned about this back in June, asked what the heck they're doing to make sure students are being treated well. This is what a spokesman over at the State Department told me back then. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

P.J. CROWLEY, ASSISTANT SECY. OF STATE FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS: I think in large respect because we put too much emphasis on the program agents to police themselves. We recognize that that has not worked properly.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Danielle Grijalva who has been tracking exchange student abuse for years says the typical scenario is that kids complain, the State Department does nothing and agencies around the country keep recruiting students.

DANIELLE GRIJALVA, DIR., CMTE. OF SAFETY FOR FOREIGN EXCHANGE STUDENTS: It's self-regulated, unmonitored, underreported, students becoming raped, placed in the homes of convicted felons, placed in the homes of registered sex offenders, come to the United States and lose 20, 30, 40 pounds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: And you're going to pay $40 million in tax money to support that program. That woman, Danielle Grijalva has been tracking this abuse for years and as the senator even pointed out in my interview with him, the State Department was warned about this in '99, in 2000, in 2006, yet really does nothing. It does nothing so far. We'll keep on...

(VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Well, as the joke goes, I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out. This riot in France over a soccer match and the flu. I'll explain. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Let's go right to our MySpace board that sets up the next story. Look at this. "Soccer fans in other countries are nuts. They're always rioting and fighting about something."

Here in America, the swine flu has closed several schools and produced long lines at vaccination clinics. But look what happened in France.

(VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Merci. Merci. This was the scene there where a big soccer match was canceled at the last minute after three players were diagnosed with swine flu, the H1N1 virus. Fans, they traveled all the way from Paris. They poured out of the train station, and with no game to attend, they did what soccer fans do in Europe, they mixed it with the local fans. Eighteen arrested, several others hurt.

League officials defending their decision to cancel the game and suggesting, the riot -- well, they said the riot would have happened anyway. They say fans of the two teams were exchanging threatening messages over the Internet long before that game was canceled.

This is what I call nerves of steel. A guy is just doing his job when an armed robber shows up. His reaction: the very definition of unfazed. It's almost time for "Fotos."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: I'm going to try to do this right. "Las Fotos del Dia," I think that's what Rick calls this segment. You know, in a tough situation, some people lose their cool, others rise to the occasion, in today's "Fotos," one man well, he goes somewhere right in the middle.

If you mad a pistol pointed at your face...

(MUSIC PLAYING)

GRIFFIN: Oh, there's the music.

OK, he's not dancing, but if you had a pistol pointed right at your face, what would you do? This is a Quiznos employee. He had no reaction at all. The gunman charged into the store demanding money. And the employee behind the counter just went on sweeping the floors. Frustrated, the robber left empty-handed. That's pretty cool. We're told the robber later hit up another Quiznos down the street, and made off with more than $1,000.

Hey, do you know that guy? Turn him in.

To Pakistan now, I want to show you this video you might not otherwise get to see. This is what a fighter pilot sees. It's a Taliban target in view, and then kaboom! The Pakistan government says this is from a Pakistan air force plane attacking a target in southwest Waziristan near the border with Afghanistan. You know who's considered to be possibly hiding there, right? Yes, Osama bin Laden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To cause trouble, we are heard here because we are in trouble.

(CROWD CHANTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: And that's not a tea party, it's a showdown in Chicago. Protesters say they're sick and tired of bankers getting bailouts. So, what do they do? They crash a banker's convention yelling "Shame on you," accusing them of ripping off the little guys and demanding more regulations of banks.

(MUSIC)

GRIFFIN: Well, he wasn't born here, but he fights in the American uniform. Now, he is fighting for a wife he didn't see for months. The soldier's immigration struggles is next.

And what really goes on in a cockpit when you're flying in coach. A pilot weighs in on that Northwest debacle as we learn new details about what those pilots were doing up there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Last week, we brought you "Latino in America," but for our sister network, CNN en Espanol, it's always "Latino in America" and everywhere else for that matter.

In today's "Connexion" segment, Patricia Janiot connects us with one of the compelling stories of immigration that she'll present tonight.

Is that a special tonight, Patricia?

PATRICIA JANIOT, ANCHOR, CNN EN ESPANOL: It is, Drew. We started yesterday with a series of special half-hour specials on the prominent Latinos on different fields.

And tonight, we interview Sergeant Carlos Molinares (ph). And through his story, we're trying to show the immigration challenges that many Latinos face in America.

Sergeant Molinares was born in Colombia and he immigrated because her mother used to be here, and she asked for him to come here to the United States. By -- through the military, through the armed forces, he became a U.S. citizen, and then he married Lizette (ph), his wife, and through this marriage, she became a U.S. resident.

This is a very inspiring success story of somebody that has overcome many obstacles. When he joined the armed forces, he didn't know a word of English, and so far, he had accomplished many -- not only honors on exams and tests -- and he has won all that on different levels, now, he's like leading a whole troop and he's ready to be deployed to Iraq.

GRIFFIN: Wow. You know, having talked to other guys who have done this, this is one of those paths to legalization that you just have to stand up and applaud. Is this guy as inspiring as he sounds?

JANIOT: Yes, yes, he is. And basically he has a very positive message to all the Latino young people in America. He said if you try hard, if you just do your job, if you behave, I mean you will get there. I mean, it can be done. Your dreams can come true in this country.

And many, many, many Latinos are trying to get legalization or citizenship through the armed forces, although now you need to be a legal resident to join the military in the United States. But this is an example of how it can be done and how successful you can be when you don't know the language, when you don't know the culture, and you just have the desire and the drive to make it, to make it the best way you can.

GRIFFIN: Great. What time tonight?

JANIOT: Nine o'clock p.m. Eastern Time.

GRIFFIN: Nine o'clock. OK, see you then.

JANIOT: So, hope you're watching. Thank you so much.

GRIFFIN: All right. Thanks a lot, Patricia. Take care.

JANIOT: Thank you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What's the lesson, then? Just that it's easy to happen?

VINCENT DRISCOLL, FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR, VAUGHN COLLEGE: We're human beings and things happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Yes, sure, things happen. But is it asking too much for a pilot to know when it's time to land?

Well, this woman know what is she's talking about because she has been there up in the cockpit. Former airline pilot Lynn Spencer. She's next.

Hi, Lynn! Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: We told you about the Afghanistan bombings that killed eight of our soldiers today in Afghanistan. Well, "THE SITUATION ROOM" is just ahead with a related story.

Brian Todd is going to have an interview with a State Department official who's resigned in protest of what's going on in Afghanistan. "The Washington Report" is reporting that Matthew Hoh, a former marine who served in Afghanistan after joining the State Department, Hoh says the U.S. military operations there are a wasted effort that's just fueling the insurgency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW HOH, FORMER MARINE: I believe that the people we are fighting there are fighting us because we're occupying them -- not for any ideological reasons and not because of any links to al Qaeda, not because of any type of fundamental hatred towards the West. The only reason they're fighting us is because we're occupying them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: An interview you're going to want to see. It's coming up shortly on "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- just ahead right here on CNN.

Hey, we're going to talk about those pilots, you know, the ones, the Northwest pilots who missed the destination city. We asked you what you think they were doing up in the cockpit. Let's go to our tweets.

Wendy says, "I've lost my hours to my laptop, too!" This is the pilots saying they were on their laptops. Here, "I think the pilots were sleeping and now they are trying to cover up everything. Their stories just don't sound right." And finally this: "Not flying the plane. That's what they were doing. That's all that matters. They should be fired."

Well, as far as mistakes go, missing your destination city has got to be at the top of the list, but as you've no doubt heard exactly what's been going on up there, a Northwest Airlines crew who set out from San Diego, they planned to land in Minneapolis, they eventually did, but after a slight 150-mile detour.

Here's Deb Feyerick with more on the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK (voice-over): The plane simulator we're in models a four-seat Cessna, significantly smaller than the Airbus A-320. But the control panels are similar.

(on camera): How is a pilot alerted that it's time to land? What do they see? What are the -- what are the indicators?

DRISCOLL: Well, you're not alerted. And nobody's going to say to you, it's time to land.

FEYERICK (voice-over): Vincent Driscoll trains pilots at the Vaughn College of Aeronautics across New York's LaGuardia Airport.

(on camera): Is it easy for a pilot to get distracted, sort of become involved, essentially flying the plane?

DRISCOLL: Things can distract you. Weather can distract you. A mechanical onboard the airplane can distract you.

FEYERICK (voice-over): In the case of Northwest Flight 188, it was not turbulence or heavy cloud cover. The distraction appears to have been laptop computers both pilots were using, they say, to check new crew schedules in place as a result of the Northwest/Delta merger.

(on camera): When you're flying, how often are you -- is somebody communicating to you when you're up in the air?

DRISCOLL: You're responsible for your own navigation, OK? ATC, what they're doing is monitoring you and other aircraft around you. They won't navigate for you. When it's busy, they expect you to be on certain airwaves.

FEYERICK (voice-over): ATC or air traffic control anxiously tried reaching the pilots for more than an hour and 15 minutes. That's roughly 30 percent of the Northwest flight from San Diego to Minneapolis, an extremely long time to maintain radio silence, especially since controllers alert pilots to switch radio frequencies roughly every 10 to 15 minutes as the plane crosses into new zones or sectors.

DRISCOLL: They'll say, OK, radio contact, positive identification -- you go on your merry way. And when you get to the end of his sector, he's going to hand you over to another sector.

FEYERICK: According to the NTSB, the pilots say they heard radio conversation, but did not specifically listen to what was being said.

(on camera): For a plane to overshoot an airport, does that happen a lot? When we're talking 150 miles, we're talking, what, about 10, 15 minutes, maybe?

DRISCOLL: It just seems like a lot when you say 10, 15 minutes and then you're talking about 150 nautical miles or so. It's really not in terms of flying.

FEYERICK (voice-over): Driscoll, a former pilot, says the cockpit is generally quite, though some busier sectors have more radio chatter. Also, it's easy to tune into the wrong frequency by a single digit.

(on camera): What's the lesson, that it's just that it's easy to happen?

DRISCOLL: We're human beings and things happen.

FEYERICK: Yes, they are human beings, but the stakes are significantly higher. And according to their airline, they were violating company policy by using those laptops in the flight deck.

Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: That's Deb's piece from New York. But let me bring in Lynn Spencer now, a former airline pilot, instructor pilot.

And, Lynn, hey, you ever overshoot an airport like this?

LYNN SPENCER, FORMER AIRLINE PILOT: I'm proud to say that I have not done that.

GRIFFIN: These two guys -- these two pilots say, "We were on the laptop, we were engaged in the discussion over the merger of our two airlines, of work" -- you know what? I don't buy any of this. I just find it completely ridiculous that we're asked to believe that these people were on a laptop computer all this time while nobody could get in touch with them in the tower.

Does that make any sense whatsoever?

SPENCER: I think I would have had an easier time believing that they had fallen asleep. As a former airline pilot, I find it very hard to excuse that their conduct was willful, that they chose to, you know, ignore their company policy, get on their laptops, and get so distracted that had they've completely failed to monitor the progression of their flight.

GRIFFIN: But, Lynn, I don't think we're getting the truth yet. That's what I'm talking about. I just don't think we know what was happening in that cockpit yet. The laptop situation makes no sense.

SPENCER: Well, I think they would have had an easier time of getting out from under this had they -- had they said they were asleep. Then I think it would have brought the attention to crew rest requirements and all the other kind of issues that are -- that are real issues that we have to deal with aviation. To come -- to come out and say that we were using our laptops and we got so distracted, we forgot to monitor the radio, we forgot to monitor our computers and our flight, I think it's going to bring a lot of wrath their way.

GRIFFIN: We've been waiting for word this afternoon that these pilots are going to be fired. We pretty much expect them to be fired. Is that what you expect from the company?

SPENCER: Well, I would think they are a liability to the company because their conduct was against company policy and was a blatant violation of their responsibility to monitor the safe progression of the flight. So, I'm sure -- I'm sure any recourse will be severe.

GRIFFIN: Yes. And beyond -- and beyond that, did they break any laws here as far as you know? Is there anything beyond that? Will they be able to keep their license and work for, I don't know, a cargo carrier, or a smaller operator somewhere else?

SPENCER: Well, the FAA and NTSB will be, I would imagine, opening an investigation, and the pilots would be receiving notification usually via U.S. mail to let them know that there is a letter of investigation, and they would have the opportunity to explain their position. And if it's found that their conduct was willfully threatening the safety of the flight, careless conduct, then I think they'll be in for a fight to keep their pilot certificates. And that would impact their ability to get flying jobs elsewhere.

GRIFFIN: Just between you and me, is there any scuttle out there about what really happened? Are we going to hear a bombshell down the line? Can you tip us off as to anything that might be coming that's going to explain what happened?

SPENCER: Just between you and me?

GRIFFIN: Just between you and me, give me the wink and the nod.

SPENCER: I -- my sense is that these guys are telling the truth, mainly because I can't imagine saying something that would get you in hotter water than what they have come out and said. That's just my take on it.

GRIFFIN: OK.

SPENCER: I think if they had wanted to take the easy way out, they might have said they had fallen asleep.

GRIFFIN: All right, Lynn, thanks a lot.

You won't fall asleep during the next several hours. That's because Wolf Blitzer is taking over with "THE SITUATION ROOM."

Wolf?