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JOY BEHAR SHOW
Late-Night Sexism?; Diet Facts and Fiction
Aired October 28, 2009 - 21:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, a former female writer for "Late Night with David Letterman" breaks her silence on what it was like to work in the late night men`s club. It is not pretty.
Also, dieting with cookies, does it work? Does it not? Who cares, they`re cookies. Three nutrition experts weigh in.
And joining me in the studio, Hulk Hogan. He wrestles more than just people. He struggled with a lot of personal demons, too. And he`ll tell me all about it.
All of this and more tonight.
A lot of people go bed at night watching David Letterman. And it turns out a lot of female staffers were going to bed with him during the day. But this news wasn`t a secret to everyone.
Joining me now for an exclusive interview is Nell Scovell, a formerly writer for NBC`s "Late Night with David Letterman. Hi, Nell.
NELL SCOVELL, FORMER LETTERMAN WRITER: Hi Joy.
BEHAR: How are you dear, you know I wanted to say upfront Nell, worked at the Letterman show and never had sex with any of the staffers, right?
SCOVELL: That`s correct.
BEHAR: Ok, I just wanted to get that out of the way.
Tell me what was going on while you were there that made you uncomfortable. You were a writer there for a few months?
SCOVELL: Right, well, I was the second woman ever hired, the first was of course the great Merrill Marko (ph).
SCOVELL: And she helped create the show and she was my hero before she became my friend. And I wanted to be on that show. I was a journalist. I wrote on "Spy" magazine and "Vanity Fair" in New York.
And then, I applied for the show in 1988. I filled out the classic submission. I didn`t hear anything from the show for two years. I got offers in L.A. I worked on the last season of "Newhart." I was there when Bob broke up with Suzanne Pleshette and I wrote the "Simpsons" episode.
And then, I finally got the call that Dave wanted to meet me. And it was my dream job, I love that show and it was a breakthrough so I moved back to New York to take this job.
And five months later, I ended up walking away from my dream job because it was a hostile work environment.
BEHAR: What was going on that made you leave? You loved the job, you loved the show. Something was going on that made you feel uncomfortable?
SCOVELL: I was -- no I was not going to flourish. And it was just -- a situation where I was -- you know, you talked about it on "The View" yourself on how, if you`re doing your job and you`re working hard and you`re in the middle of a soap opera then, that that`s not -- I wasn`t going to thrive professionally.
And I think that the memo at the young girl that said you should have low self-esteem and put up with crap. So I just -- I quit.
BEHAR: Good for you. Although, some people say you should have stayed.
SCOVELL: It`s hard.
BEHAR: Some people say you should have stayed because when you quit a job like that, a guy will get the job. But...
SCOVELL: But let me also, historically, this was 1990; it was a year before Anita Hill. There wasn`t that much awareness of sexual harassment or sexual favoritism. And so I knew it was dysfunctional. But I didn`t think there was legal recourse.
SCOVELL: And I didn`t have options. I didn`t have a job to go at that time but I was lucky it wasn`t my first job in television. And a few months later I was working on a top ten sitcom, "Coach," which I loved created by Barry Kemp (ph) and I was on there for over two seasons.
BEHAR: So what was your reaction when -- by the way, that Anita Hill -- that Anita Hill story was the tipping point for all of the sexual harassment...
BEHAR: ... suits and everything else. And women everywhere now realize that these guys cannot get away with that type of behavior anymore.
Now, what was your reaction when this all came to light?
SCOVELL: The what?
BEHAR: The blackmail, the...
SCOVELL: Oh well, first of all, it was a terrible thing. And no one should be blackmailed. And I should say that. And I -- I really did move on.
And in fact, I had written a piece supporting Dave and the Sarah Palin joke just a few months previously in "Vanity Fair". I dug up this great quote from Johnny Carson making fun of Lyndon Johnson`s daughter. And I thought if Johnny can do it, Dave can do it.
And so the extortion plot was unfortunate and certainly Dave exposing himself, so to speak, on the air and the affair, you know that wasn`t news to anyone who have worked on the show. But then as more people voiced opinions about what it was like in man environment, and you know I talked about "The View" in my article, and the misconceptions.
I felt that burden to bear witness.
SCOVELL: And it`s crazy because it`s just the tiniest injustice. But you don`t choose your injustices. They choose you.
BEHAR: Ok, let`s talk about the time that you spent as a writer in the writer`s room. How many women were at the big three shows when you were there? And how about now?
SCOVELL: Well, let`s -- ok, so forget feelings and opinions, let`s talk numbers.
SCOVELL: Between Letterman, Leno, and the Tonight Show. There are about 50 comedy writer of which exactly zero are women.
BEHAR: 50, 5-0. Is that what you said?
SCOVELL: Yes. I think, there are -- there are 14 male writers on Letterman right now. And why 14 is interesting is historically, in 27 years, there have only been seven women writers on the show.
So today, there are twice as many men as in all 27 years.
BEHAR: Do you think that comedy suffers, that these shows suffered because they don`t have women writers? Or is it just...
SCOVELL: Oh, absolutely.
BEHAR: To me it`s like they never put a woman in late night and all of the men are running late night and the comedy writers, and the stars, and there`s just isn`t a shot. I`m very happy that Wanda Sykes is getting a late night show. I wish her all the best in the world, believe me we are rooting for Wanda.
SCOVELL: But she`s hilarious.
BEHAR: But it`s very hard to break through that.
SCOVELL: Yes, I do think that -- you know, the funniest room -- writer`s room I have ever personally been in was when I was at "Murphy Brown." And it was split exactly half and half. And it was not only the funniest room I`ve ever been in it was actually the crudest, probably.
And, you know, one of the reasons I wanted to become a comedy writer was I saw this movie Albert Brookes had made called "Real Life."
BEHAR: Oh yes.
SCOVELL: And Albert always wrote with a woman, with Monica Johnson. And you know I think, the more viewpoints, the more comedy. And if everyone is shooting for the same joke target and no one is off looking in the weeds for the unexpected...
SCOVELL: ... then whole product suffers.
BEHAR: Thank you, Nell very much for coming on the show. I know that you -- you blew off a few other shows just to be on my show. And I really appreciate that. Thanks very much.
SCOVELL: Oh, I appreciate you, all you had to say on "The View."
BEHAR: Thank you Nell, ok.
Now I would like to bring in Jami Floyd, an anchor at the Legal Network, "In Session."
Jami, I want to read part of what Jami (SIC) wrote, "There`s a subset of sexual harassment called sexual favoritism that according to the EEOC can lead to hostile work environment."
Now, that`s the part that bugs me.
JAMI FLOYD, ANCHOR, "BEST DEFENSE WITH IN SESSION: Yes.
BEHAR: Is the favoritism, speak to that as a lawyer.
FLOYD: It`s what Nell wrote. But it is what I would have written.
FLOYD: Because that is what a lot of people don`t understand. Sexual harassment isn`t just about sexual touching or sexual activity. It is about a hostile work environment that makes one group, generally women, feel uncomfortable in the work environment in any way. It can be about posting pictures...
FLOYD: That may be offensive or it can be about what Nell talked about, sexual favoritism.
And in an environment where some women are receiving favors because they are having sex with the boss or with other men in the environment who may have power, those who choose not to participate in that behavior are at a disadvantage.
BEHAR: Or not asked.
FLOYD: And let`s call...
FLOYD: Let`s call these women out by the way. It`s just about the man it`s about the sisterhood. So girlfriends...
FLOYD: ... if you`re participating in this, you`re not part of the sisterhood.
BEHAR: It`s really like dating a married man, it`s like you really have an obligation to sisterhood not to that. But let me, before we go because, we`re running out of time already.
BEHAR: It`s impossible for somebody to report David Letterman to Human Resources of something. Nothing is going to happen -- he`s a multimillion dollar organization in himself. What is a girl to do? She had to leave.
FLOYD: You know it`s interesting that you brought up Anita Hill and we talked about the EEOC.
FLOYD: And there are these laws, of course, and we`ve all had greater recognition of what is legal and what is not legal. But the law can only go so far. It`s just like civil rights legislation; there comes a point where society has to take it a step further. We, as individuals, the morality has to go to where the law has gone. Law can only do so much.
BEHAR: Amen, amen. Well, thank you Jami very much.
Coming up next, eat cookies to lose weight? That sounds like a really good idea, stick around.
BEHAR: Have you heard of the cookie diet? It`s a diet where you can eat six cookies a day. Can I just mention, to me that`s not a diet, that`s a way of life.
Joining me now discuss this controversial cookie diet is Dr. Sanford Siegal, creator of Dr. Siegal`s cookie diet. Welcome Dr. Seigel. How are you?
DR. SANFORD SIEGAL, CREATOR, DR. SIEGAL`S COOKIE DIET: Hello, Joy.
BEHAR: So tell me, how does the cookie diet work?
SIEGAL: What the dieter is required to do is to eat six cookies a day which helps suppress her hunger or his hunger and then a meal at night. There`s only one meal and that`s the evening meal.
The cookies control the hunger during the day. The meal gives you real food at night. The total calorie count: 1,000 calories a day. I can tell you, on 1,000 calories a day, you lose weight. Everyone loses weight on 1,000 calories a day.
BEHAR: It`s really not enough food for the average person -- 1,000 calories a day. What is in the cookies, amphetamines?
SIEGAL: No, there are no drugs in the cookies. The cookies are strictly a food. However, you said that`s not enough food for the average person. Of course it`s not. That`s what we want. Not enough food.
BEHAR: Doctor, I could never sustain 1,000 calories a day. I`m too busy, too active.
SIEGAL: The point is, I have had 500,000 patients over the last 34 years who were able to sustain it. The point is that if you`re not hungry -- and hunger is the major problem in dieting -- if you`re not hungry, you can live on 1,000 calories a day. And what`s more, you can lose weight with 1,000 calories a day.
BEHAR: I know. But first of all, I don`t know what is in those cookies that`s suppressing your appetite. But I know that -- when I was in college, I tried diet pills and all I did was cry. I never lost a pound, I was just crying all day long. What I`m saying is that those kinds of stimulants are not healthy for you.
SIEGAL: Joy, there are no stimulants in my product. My product is 100 percent food. But they are foods that are known to be hunger suppressors.
BEHAR: Like what? Tell us what it is? What`s the food that`s a hunger suppressant?
SIEGAL: The general term is protein. However, there are specific proteins -- let me tell you how this came about. In 1975, I was writing a book on the subject of foods that are hunger suppressing. It`s well know that certain foods are. And certain foods are stimulative hunger.
I put together a formula based on knowledge that was in the literature at that time that certain mixtures of amino acids are far more hunger suppressing than say carbohydrates. I baked them into a cookie -- totally food substances, no drugs and it was an instant success with my patients.
BEHAR: Do we have to -- the cookies -- I just tasted one. It`s not that great to taste, I have to be honest with you. Is that part of the diet that you don`t want to eat more cookies?
SIEGAL: No. There are various reactions to my cookie. Some people love them, some people say they`re all right and some people truly don`t like them. But the point is, we don`t care if they like them. The cookie is not for entertainment.
BEHAR: So it`s like medicine?
SIEGAL: The cookie is for a serious medical problem which is overweight. And I have treated 500,000 patients with this cookie over the last 34 years. I can tell you that they`re well tolerated. Some people actually like them. I don`t want them to like them too much because that`s what got us into trouble to begin with, liking our food too much.
BEHAR: Ok, thank you very much, Dr. Siegal for coming on the show. I appreciate it.
Now I want to bring in my panel to talk more about the diet: registered dietician and author of "Joy`s Life Diet" Joy Bauer; Jorge Cruise, "New York Times" best-selling author and author of the upcoming book, "The Belly Fat Cure"; and Dr. Michael Roizen, chief wellness officer at the Cleveland Clinic and the co-author of "You: the owner`s manual." Welcome everybody.
First of all, I tasted the cookies and they taste like insulation. Would you like one?
JORGE CRUISE, AUTHOR, "THE BELLY FAT CURE": I`ll smell one.
JOY BAUER, AUTHOR, "JOY`S LIFE DIET": I think maybe I`ll pass.
BEHAR: I mean, what is in these cookies? Doctor, do you know what`s in the cookie? I mean can you help us out here?
CRUISE: I took a look online. These have two grams of sugar and 11 carbohydrates. They`re a little higher in the carbs and sugar but there is protein in there. I didn`t ask how much protein it was. I didn`t see that online.
BEHAR: Well, that was his point. That`s it`s protein, like Atkins` sort of.
BAUER: The combination of protein and fiber, he is right. It does keep you fuller for longer. But you can get the same effect and lose weight from having a one serving bowl of whole-grain cereal with skim milk. You can have a bowl of oatmeal with a non-fat yogurt on the side. So you can get the same effect from real food as well.
But there`s nothing dangerous in the cookies.
BEHAR: No, nothing dangerous. I know there`s no speed in there.
CRUISE: Here`s the unfortunate thing for me because I have this passion that I`m on right now, this kind of revolution that I`m trying to start next year, Joy, and it`s really based on Gary Taubes` work that you know from Larry King when you were on with them and all that.
And it`s this whole idea that what we`re doing right now is a conventional world in a sense of what conventional doctors and experts are saying is that calories are the problem. That the reason we`re overweight is that we eat too much and we don`t exercise enough. We hear that all the time.
BEHAR: I`m so sick of that explanation.
CRUISE: Because it`s wrong. And it`s been going on for over 60 years. And this diet is based on that philosophy that less is more. I tell people that doesn`t work because if you do that long term where you starve yourself...
BEHAR: You won`t keep it off.
CRUISE: Thank you. Right?
BEHAR: Also, this Dr. Siegal says that you need quick weight loss in order to not feel discouraged. Dr. Roizen what do you think about the idea of a quick weight-loss plan like that? Is that healthy?
DR. MICHAEL ROIZEN, CO-AUTHOR, "YOU: THE OWNER`S MANUAL": What you want is a steady weight loss plan that you can stay on for the rest of your life. Because weight cycling, that is the quick loss and the regain is much worse for your health than slow, steady loss or maintaining a higher weight. In fact, what you want is a slow, steady rate.
The second point on this is it`s 1,000 calories which, if we could stay on, if people can stay on it is actually a calorie-restriction diet which would be great if you can stay on it forever. But people can`t and that`s one of the problems.
BAUER: The other good news is that when you just start eating better and you reduced your calories from what you normally eat, the first couple of weeks of a sound diet, you will see that euphoric drop on the scale.
BEHAR: But mostly it`s water, isn`t it?
BAUER: It doesn`t matter though. It`s so great for the psyche to see those first few weeks, a significant drop, because then gives you that stay with it power. And then you have the slow, consistent weight loss afterwards.
BEHAR: Maybe his idea of this kind of a cookie diet, I mean, it`s easy to bring these things to work.
CRUISE: It is, but here`s the truth.
BAUER: But you can`t have (INAUDIBLE) for lunch at a restaurant.
CRUISE: And here`s the truth here. Here`s what`s happening that none of us are talking about Joy. And this is the most important thing that anyone who`s listening right now has to hear. Because I represent a lot of new forefront thinking.
And this is the idea that calories, in the sense of how many calories you eat, really don`t matter as much as the kind of calories. That the number one driver of weight gain is insulin; that it`s all hormonal based.
And it has nothing to do with how many calories you eat because if you eat 500 carries of cheese, and meat, and proteins, and good carbohydrates - - the whole grain carbohydrates that I love and things like that -- and the right amounts of sugars, not too much sugar, you will keep your insulin levels low.
And what happens in America right now, Joy, everyone is doing this. Everyone is in a high insulin state; a chronic state of high insulin. When that happens, we constantly lock in not just fat but what I call belly fat. And it never goes away.
And so for anyone watching who wants to lose belly fat or any kind of fat, you have to keep insulin levels low and it has nothing to do with eating less.
BEHAR: Ok. Or get liposuction.
More with my panel next. Stay way from that fridge all of you out there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have tried just about every diet there is. I tried the Atkins. And you know, you really get sick eating so much meat. They say fruits. I go out and get fruits. It doesn`t do it. But I don`t eat a lot. I really don`t.
But at night, before I go bed, up until 1:00 in the morning, if there`s cookies, cake, ice cream, I devour it; cakes, cookies, pies, brownies. Just give me the right diet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: She`s cute. She`s not really heavy.
I am back with my panel getting the facts on diet.
We just watched a woman going on about dieting. Don`t we all feel like that -- want to get up at 1:00 in the morning and have a snack?
CRUISE: Because we`re conditioned, especially for rich sugary carbohydrates. And that goes back in (INAUDIBLE) the times and go back even 100, 200 years ago before there was processed, refined products. When we found that in nature, we were hunting and gathering, it was so rare that we`re drawn to it. Our taste buds were drawn to it. But today`s world, I mean sugar unfortunately is everywhere.
You want a Coca-cola.
BAUER: And it tastes so good.
CRUISE: It`s addictive. It is a drug.
BAUER: You want more and more. That`s what we tend to forget.
CRUISE: A lot of people think it`s avoiding the sodas. I`ve been working with President Clinton with whole initiative for children, he`s trying to get sodas out of schools and he`s been doing that.
BAUER: I am all for that.
CRUISE: And that`s a big, big thing. But the other thing going on is people are drinking too more orange juice. And orange juice has more sugar, if you drink it in quantities, than Coca-cola. And milk does too.
BAUER: And nothing against orange juice because it`s apple juice and cranberry juice. It`s all of the liquid calories. And they don`t satiate you like the solids.
CRUISE: And if you just take one orange, that would be fine. But most people, a glass of orange juice is made up of six, or seven oranges. And there`s more sugar in that than a coke. And that`s what`s going to spike the insulin.
BEHAR: Now, Dr. Roizen and the panel. We were talking about cheese before. The latest thing that I hear constantly is I don`t need dairy. This is from skinny girls all over New York City. I don`t eat dairy. I wouldn`t look at yogurt. I eschew cottage cheese, mozzarella, all cheeses. What do you say to that?
CRUISE: The trick is really looking at what you`re eating. And it`s protein. Is it protein, is it fat, or is it carbs? And cheese has protein, has no sugar. Most cheeses -- 99.9 percent of all cheese doesn`t have any sugar. If it doesn`t have sugar, it doesn`t spike insulin and you don`t have this chronic state of insulin in your body, it releases body fat.
BAUER: However, full fat cheese, although it doesn`t have sugar, it does have artery clogging fat. It won`t raise your insulin levels, but it will promote inflammation throughout your body. So this is where I argue with you here. I`m all about the dairy but I want to promote low fat and nonfat dairy because then you get all of the good, the calcium...
BEHAR: Nonfat dairy tastes like rubber.
CRUISE: I disagree. And I disagree strongly on that.
BEHAR: Let`s hear what the Dr. Roizen thinks.
ROIZEN: Look, food is not let`s make a deal. Yes, we get addicted to sugar but we also get addicted to saturated fat and salt. And cheese has a lot of salt and saturated fat. And not only are those addictive, but they turn on genes that cause inflammation. The cholesterol effect of saturated fat is a little bit. The gene effect is a huge amount.
So it isn`t protein, it`s got to be protein without saturated fat, if you`re not going to die like you`re a cigarette addict that is thin. So cigarettes are great appetite suppressants but we die early because they turn on bad genes.
BEHAR: Wait a minute we`re taking a break.
I really do think that those women, the French women who say French women don`t get fat is because they smoke.
CRUISE: They cheat.
BEHAR: Stay right there, everyone. More facts and fiction on diet plans when we come back. They smoke.
BEHAR: Okay, I`m back and we`re talking about how to lose weight. Now that`s a reason to stay tuned, right? OK joining me are registered dietitian and author of "Joys Life Diet" Dr. Joy Bauer, Jorge Cruise, New York Times best-selling author and author of the upcoming book "The Belly side Cure," and Dr. Michael Roizen, Chief Wellness Officer of the Cleveland clinic and the co-author of "View the Owner`s Manual". OK, let me start just start with Dr. Roizen and then I`m going to ask both of you. Before we go, I want a tip. Doctor, tell me what can I do this week to lose a pound or two. Just one week, give me your answer.
DR. MICHAEL ROIZEN, CHIEF WELLNESS OFFICER OF THE CLEVELAND CLINIC AND CO AUTHOR: OK, walk 30 minutes every day -- extra 30 minutes a day. And call a buddy; tell them you`re doing it. And the second thing is avoid white food.
BEHAR: OK, no white food meaning rice, bread, pasta. How about cheese?
DR. ROIZEN: Cream sauce. Anything that is white other than white fish.
BEHAR: That is so racist but I love it. Jorge, fill in fast.
JORGE CRUISE, AUTHOR: What the American heart association recently released after 2.5 years and I spoke to Racheal Johnson the doctor of the produce at the University of Vermont said that everything they talked about cheese and high cholesterol and all this was wrong. They reversed it all. They said it was sugar that was the primary cause of ordinary heart disease, lower sugar 15 grams or less and six - but six servings of carbohydrates the rich fibrous ones so you get the bowels healthy. Because you don`t want to get what I call false belly factor
BEHAR: All right but I need my bowel factor.
CRUISE: And that will guarantee that your insulin level stays low and you release belly fat and you lose 4 to 9 lbs a week.
BEHAR: OK, no sugar, and more what -
CRUISE: What you need to do is you need to make sure anything that increases insulin, and that`s sugars, processed carbohydrates, those two things are the most detrimental to our health. You do that you will release belly fat, and not just a pound or two Joy -- four the nine pounds is what I talk about any my new book, The Belly Factor and that will be out next year but that`s the goal. DR. JOY BAUER, AUTHOR: Joy?
BEHAR: A woman gets the last word on this.
DR. BAUER: OK two tips, omit liquid calories; get rid of the sodas, fruit juices, and all of these coffee concoctions. And the second tip, enjoy your sandwiches open face. Lose that top slice of bread. If you eat a sandwich every single day, that means, at the end of the month, you`ve saved 30 slices of bread. That`s 3,000 calories.
CRUISE: And a lot of sugar.
BEHARR: OK that`s very good. Now let`s talk about fad diets because we didn`t do that. There`s a cookie diet and we just heard about it. The Atkins diet. The grape fruit diet, the zone diet. What about those, what do you, Joy what do you think about the Atkins diet?
DR. BAUER: You know what, I think -
BEHAR: Or south beach it is very similar?
DR. BAUER: At the end of the day, it`s about your own personality. What can you sustain? You need to eat less and move more. And I think there are options out there for all different food preferences and lifestyles. So I don`t have bad things to say about any of these diets. You know, again, eat less, move more, and watch the weight come off. But pick something that you can personally stick with.
BHEAR: You know, Jorge, Dr. Roizen said we should walk 30 minutes in a day.
CRUISE: Well the research show that the more you exercise, you do as the cover of Time Magazine, you actually eat more because it builds up your appetite. It`s what I`ve been doing for ten years. You know me as a fitness expert for the View for years, I`ve been doing this. And I`ve really - I mean I`ve changed a lot of my philosophy. I now exercise and walk for cardiovascular health, not to lose weight, ever. And that`s the cover of Time Magazine that put in on the cover.
BEHAR: Oh that makes it gospel?
CRUISE: Well that is what most people do and they exercise and have we lost any weight? We`re more overweight than ever before and we`re eating less.
BEHAR: Let me ask the doctor of what he thinks about that, doctor, you heard that.
DR. ROIZEN: Well part of what he said is absolutely wrong. When you exercise, you increase insulin uptake. You increase its effectiveness. He`s arguing for getting foods that don`t increase insulin. Well one of the ways to increase insulin is in fact doing a little exercise consistently every day.
The second thing is, you don`t want with a -- the zone and Atkins, if you make them more like South Beach, which is more healthy fat rather than unhealthy fat with the protein, it`s much healthier for your body because you don`t stimulate inflammation -
BEHAR: What do you think about burst exercise? You know where you march trainer - I have this trainer, she`s wonderful, and she says 12 minutes on the treadmill , go with a normal pace, and then for 30 seconds to a minute, increase, increase, increase. And then go back down - only 12 minutes a day, Dr. Roizen do you like that? DR. ROIZEN: It`s the intensity that you`re getting is excellent and is actually healthy.
BEHAR: There you go.
CRUISE: If you enjoy it.
BEHAR: No one enjoys any of this.
DR. BAUER: Yes that`s the bottom line with exercise -- you enjoy it when it`s done. (CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: There`s no such thing.
DR. BAUER: But you know when it comes to exercise and I really do find this with so many people that I personally work with. And this is why I argue with what you said, it puts people in a positive mind set to then make smart food choices later in the day.
CRUISE: I don`t want anyone watching. There are 5 million books out there. I exercise. I believe in exercise because it increases serotonin level. It makes you feel good, keeps your muscles young, youthful -- tones and firms. But the science, the new science that has just come out, truly the more you exercise, the more you build your appetite and that`s what they use to tell. Doctors use to tell their patients in the 1950`s that if you need to gain weight, that was an issue with a lot of gals back then - go exercise. Because it will build up your appetite. Work out.
DR. BAUER: But what the science is showing is that exercise does not burn that many calories. It doesn`t show that you are put in a feel good - I can do mind set.
CRUISE: It does. But it makes you hungry so -
DR. BAUER: through with healthier lifestyle.
BEHAR: Doctor, what is the last word on exercise? You give it to us.
DR. ROIZEN: Three components of exercise that make a difference. Weight baring that is resistance, any exercise, walking, and a little cardiovascular. That`s for your health. In other words, what we look for in a diet is not just getting thin. It`s getting thin and living with a quality of life that you want. That is those three components combined.
CRUISE: And the probably the most important thing, for people out there - this is what I tell people that the fat you have on your body is not your fault. There`s a lot of people beat themselves up and they think it`s their fault. The science in my opinion has misled us partly because the conventional wisdom has been about counting calories. And telling people to eat more, oh I`m sorry eat less like these cookies where you eat less and those can work but if you can do that for life, you will be the first person to be able the eat cookies for the rest of your life. So it`s about insulin levels, that`s what the new science is really talking about and if you can keep that low, Joy, you will release fat effortlessly. (CROSSTALK)
DR. BAUER: And portion control.
BEHAR: You know I hate portion control.
DR. BAUER: I know.
CRUISE: So do I.
DR. BAUER: It is such a drag -- I am sorry to be the dreg to bring it up. At the end of the day, the only thing you can really truly eat unlimited amounts of is going to be non -- starchy vegetables.
BEHAR: Let me - before we go, isn`t it better to eliminate something than to have portion control? I`d rather leave out all the white food.
DR. BAUER: Only if-
CRUISE: I agree that white food is bad, absolutely. DR. BAUER: If you can do that. If it doesn`t backfire. If it`s a personal trigger food, in other words like, you have one and it opens up a Pandora box and you have to have 1,000, don`t go near that. But if you can have a small amount. You go for it because -
BEHAR: Thank you all very smart, very good, thanks to my panel for joining me tonight, back in just a minute with Hulk Hogan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
One, two, he goes. Ladies and gentlemen, the winner of this bout, and the new world wrestle federation heavy weight champion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Inside the ring you only had to deal with opponents like Andre the Giant and the Undertaker. In his new book, "My Life Outside the Ring" Hulk Hogan paints a bleak picture of abuse, anger, extra marital affairs and suicidal thoughts, and that was just on the front page. Welcome to the show. Hulk, can I call you Hulk?
HULK HOGAN: Thank you. Thank you so much. Yea that`s great. That`s awesome.
BEHAR: What is your real name?
HOGAN: That`s terry.
HOGAN: It`s kind of like saying Santa Claus` name is Bob, you know, with the kids.
BEHAR: But you know Terry isn`t even a macho name.
HOGAN: You know I had to amp it up a little bit.
BEHAR: You did amp it up with the Hulk.
HOGAN: Yea but you know, a lot of people call me hey Hogan. You know that`s not what I`m use to hearing.
BEHAR: Yes but you know, your book is filled with all sorts of things. Suicide attempts, abuse. Didn`t anything nice happen to you?
HOGAN: Yea a lot of good stuff, a lot of great stuff happen. But --
BEHAR: It opens with a horrific revelation that you nearly -- you discuss a suicide attempt. Tell me about it.
HOGAN: Yea well I kind of like bottomed out. You know I had a whole bunch of things happen in a short amount of time. I lost my family, basically had a show on NBC, a prime time show, where the first day on the set I get hit with divorce papers in front of a sound stage and arena full of people. And they had NBC on one side and my son was there - you know everything just hit me
BEHAR: The reality show?
HOGAN: No, no it was American gladiators, a prime time show. And so that hit me at once, you know. And just a bunch of things happened. My son had an accident, you know. I went through some crazy things trying to get through the shoot. Because we had a bunch of episodes ordered. And I just couldn`t get out of it. When I went back to the big house my family grew up in, you know. Everything was gone. The kids weren`t there, you know, my wife was gone. We had - we were animal freaks. We had animals. All the animals were gone. And when I went through every closet, all the clothes were gone. And there were pictures all over the house of my family and stuff.
BEHAR: Why didn`t she take the pictures?
HOGAN: Oh I don`t know. But you know I was in so much pain from my back and hips. I had a chair that I sat in the bath room because I couldn`t stand up and shave my face, I could only shave half my face. So I had to lie on the floor and then get back up so I had a chair I sat in just to shave and brush my teeth. I found myself sitting in the chair and it was just like, it came on all at once. After 23 years of marriage, you know, everything was over. And I just found myself going back to kind of like the old wrestler attitude. I grabbed the bottle of liquor, and I found this really old bottle of Xanaxes. I ate a couple and started drinking this bottle. And you know as the day went on, my gun was there. And I don`t remember getting the gun. I just remember hiding the gun in the safe.
BEHAR: So you didn`t take the gun. She left the gun and the pictures.
HOGAN: Right, right, right. I remember hiding the gun in the safe for many years because I didn`t want to turn into another Phil Hartman, it was that crazy of a marriage. And so all of a sudden here I am with this gun. I`ve always thought anybody that attempted suicide was a coward. But I had no idea cow could slip into this situation and not realize. And I found myself playing with this gun and hitting it on my teeth and messing with it. And this went on for a couple of days. And several people called me Steve Chapman, my neighbor called me, a friend of mine, Bubba, called me. Eric Bishop, another friend. I thought I was doing real good by saying I`m okay man, don`t worry about me. Then finally, Laila Ali called me.
BEHAR: Laila, Muhammad Ali`s daughter?
HOGAN: Right, she said, we`re so worried about you. You left L.A. and you we`re so depressed and we haven`t heard from you - just hearing her voice snapped me out of it. It really did.
BEHAR: You know you - it`s really interesting that story. It went on for a couple of days where you were toying with the idea but then you decided not to do it.
HOGAN: No it just was - I guess I kind of like hypnotized myself. I sat there and the more I sat there - it just - you know I almost looked at myself for so long it didn`t seem real.
BEHAR: So did it change your attitude to suicidal people? Cause one woman I know who tried to kill herself because she was very ill. She said it`s impossible to do -- very hard to do. It takes a certain kind of guts to do it almost. It`s not a cowardly thing.
HOGAN: I couldn`t do it.
BEHAR: You could not do it?
HOGAN: No I couldn`t do it. And the thing was I just didn`t realize how - I didn`t understand why everything changed so fast.
BEHAR: Yea but the wife, your wife, 23 years with her. You say it was horrific to live with her. What was she doing?
HOGAN: Well you know she was unhappy. You know and I don`t know if
BEHAR: Was she unhappy for 23 years?
HOGAN: No when we started out, I mean, I`m still madly in love with her. I mean she`s a great person, and you know, I know that person. That`s the one that I married and as the time went on, you know. She had a desire to move back to Los Angeles. And my work was on the east coast, that`s where all the wrestle was here. And we made several attempts to go back and forth. I kept several homes in L.A. and you know as her desire to go back where she started happen, my career was getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And the drinking started out kind of like a social thing and it got to the point it never stopped. I asked her, the kids asked her. She went to the Betty Ford clinic for a short while. And then it go to an aggressive, violent relationship where instead of saying hello, every word was the "f" toward me. And it got to the point where.
BEHAR: So the booze was doing it? You feel
HOGAN: In my opinion.
BEHAR: She was also; she told People magazine that over the holidays in 2007, she sank into a depression. She said, I didn`t have a gun, but I didn`t want to live. That was the same time you were contemplating suicide.
HOGAN: Well I mean she filed for divorce. And over the years, no matter what I took.
BEHAR: So but both of you were very crazy it sounds at that time.
HOGAN: Well I don`t know her situation was at that time.
BEHAR: That`s what she told "People" magazine at that time.
HOGAN: I`m not sure. The only thing I remember is they said there was going to be a war. I didn`t understand that either.
BEHAR: How did that become a war though - I mean for 23 year it wasn`t a war. It was a war for some of that time right?
HOGAN: Yea I mean behind the scenes there were serious hard times. Her attorney, attorney name A.J. Granthill out of Miami, made a statement to "People" magazine that this is going to be a war. That was the one thing that I begged Linda, don`t file for divorce. Please don`t file. When she publicly filed, that`s what changed me. Because all of a sudden, she publicly told everybody she didn`t love me, she didn`t want to be with me -- and never wanted to see me again so that was different from a private argument.
BEHAR: Do you think the lawyer geeked her up a little?
HOGAN: I don`t know.
BEHAR: Yea OK, before the divorce settlement, you said to "Rolling Stone" I could have turned everything into a crime scene, like O.J. cutting everybody`s throat. You know a 19-year-old boy is sleeping in bed with your wife. I totally understand. I get it. She was sleeping with a 19- year-old boy.
HOGAN: She`s in love with one of the children that went to school with one of my kids. And I was
BEHAR: She`s still with him?
BEHAR: How long now?
HOGAN: I don`t know almost two years.
HOGAN: And you know it was a situation where when you love in a town, you`re proud to be from that town, and you`re the world champion, everybody looks up to you, and then all of a sudden, all your friends and your family, everybody there is tell you there`s a young kid driving your cars, and motorcycles, and your boats, and sleeping in bed with your wife, it does something to you as man. And it takes you to a place mentally where you have to decide well, bad, yes, no -- take the high road or the low road. And I was at that point in my life I`m saying, OK, am I going to go down the tubes and be a statistic or am I going to take the high road? I understand how someone like O.J. can go down that road. I understand how people can do the wrong thing, make mistakes. But I was in the point in my life where I chose to take the high road. I remained silent.
BEHAR: But O.J. Simpson from what I understand, he was in a lot of wife abuse, the two of them, for a long time. I don`t think sounds like your marriage wasn`t like that exactly. There wasn`t hitting in your relationship?
HOGAN: No there was no hitting.
BEHAR: So it`s just the jealous rage that she was sleeping with a kid. Who`s the kid? How old is your wife?
BEHAR: 51? She must have something that this 19-year-old is attracted to her. What do you think? Unless he`s a, you know, an idiot.
HOGAN: Well, what I`m saying is that you have to make a decision in life. And sometimes you have to say, OK, do I want to become a statistic. Do something really stupid?
BEHAR: But you didn`t -
HOGAN: No, No I chose to go the other way but I understand how people flip out and go crazy. I understand how a situation can happen and someone can flip out. I understand now.
BEHAR: I`m curious what you said though you said you`re still in love with your wife, she`s a wonderful person. And yet in your book you call her an abusive alcoholic. Who do you write this then if you love her so much?
HOGAN: Well I understand. I know the person that she was when I married her. I know who that person is. But as things went along, I went through a situation that I thought it was normal to yell and scream and have chaos and hear cuss words all the time. I didn`t understand that mentally and verbally that sometimes when you hear that all the time, whether you call it abuse or manipulation, at the time I thought that`s how life was. And then when I snapped out and got sick and tired of being sick and tired, what I call breathing clean air, I realize how wrong that was. That`s not normal, that`s not how things are. And I went through this crazy period and survived it.
BEHAR: I see that. OK. We`ll be right back with more Hulk Hogan after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
You just tell me, brother -
All right. A front chin lock. How about it?
Keep it like that for a little while. He`s all right. He`s just sleeping. He`s sleeping -- really. He`ll be all right.
BEHAR: I`m back with Hulk Hogan. Do you remember that? 1985?
HOGAN: Well you guys have all the old stuff, don`t you?
BEHAR: We have access to everything. This is CNN stuff here. We got it all. You put my friend, Richard Belzer, into a sleeper hold. This is what happened in those days. You were a real tough guy. He then sued you and bought a house in France.
HOGAN: I think it was Cassa del Hogan, the name of the house.
BEHAR: Cassa del Hogan is good name for it.
HOGAN: I think that`s what it was, I think I saw it in a magazine.
BEHAR: I mean maybe you can do something for me. I can use a summer home.
BEHAR: All right, I mean let`s go back to you. You`re dating now I hear.
HOGAN: Well, I`ve got a girlfriend.
BEHAR: You have a girlfriend.
BEHAR: It`s not dating. This is like a real thing.
BEHAR: How long are you dating? Is she 19?
HOGAN: No, she`s not 19. God, you`re brutal. You`re brutal.
BEHAR: Because I heard -- Howard Stern says your girlfriend looks like your daughter. Does she?
HOGAN: I think Howard Stern`s wife looks like my daughter. Tu shay.
BEHAR: All right you can fight that one out with him. No, I was just thinking, maybe you and your wife have in common you like someone younger. It`s up to you. I`m not judging. I`m just saying. All right. Fine. Now, you also just announced you`re returning to pro wrestling. You`re 56. Now for nothing I don`t want to when an ageist, but, you know, those guys that you`re going to go up against are going to be a lot younger than you. Is there a senior citizen match that we can look forward?
HOGAN: You know what we can do a Jeritza match.
BEHAR: Jeritza match that will be good.
HOGAN: You know, I don`t know if I`m going to get back in the ring and wrestle.
BEHAR: You`re not?
HOGAN: I don`t know. You know I just, you never know. I would love to say I could jump off the top rope and go crazy. I think I understand the business a lot and can help these guys get along. I don`t want to go to the glue factory when I`m ready to go to the racetrack.
BEHAR: I see. I understand that what scares you, besides your wife?
HOGAN: you know, nothing really scares me.
BEHAR: Nothing scares you?
HOGAN: No. No.
BEHAR: Come on.
HOGAN: It doesn`t.
BEHAR: You`ll take on anybody?
HOGAN: No, I don`t mean -- I thought you meant other than physical. I`m scared to death. I don`t like confrontations.
BEHAR: You`re a big pussy cat but act like a tough guy.
HOGAN: That`s pretty close.
BEHAR: All right.
HOGAN: Are you hitting on me?
BEHAR: No. No, no.
BEHAR: I`m over that. I`m so post menopausal. Nothing turns me on anymore. Do you and Linda maintain a friendship, I`d like to know?
BEHAR: You`re not friends? That`s the reason the book.
HOGAN: No, that`s not the reason.
BEHAR: You love her, she`s adorable.
HOGAN: No you`re missing the whole point.
BEHAR: I`m pushing your book now.
HOGAN: Thank you. The reason I wrote the book, I went through two years of having the carpet pulled out from under me. And there`s a lot of people that are on TV now that have homes and problems with jobs and losing their homes. You know, I looked at my life and decided to take the high road and pull a nose up on this thing. You know, there`s a lot of things I`m doing which I don`t want to -- just following the spirit of Christ. Positive. That --
BEHAR: We didn`t get to the religion. Oh my goodness. You`ll have to come back again.
HOGAN: Thank you. I love you too.
BEHAR: Thanks to the Hulk and thank and thank you all for watching. Good night, everybody.