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Nancy Grace
Teen Suspect Denied Bail in Child Murder
Aired October 28, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live to the heartland. A 9-year-old little Missouri girl plays with a friend, walks home, still daylight, through her own neighborhood, no more than a thousand feet. She never makes it home. The search for 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten comes to an end, her body found in a wooded area just houses from her own home. Police converge on one of the homes, the last known sighting of the 9-year-old alive.
Breaking tonight: A murder suspect in custody. No, not one of the registered sex offenders in the area, not a parolee. The suspect is a 15- year-old girl, reportedly the sister of little Elizabeth`s playmate. In the last hours, a judge brings down the hammer in a bid for the 15-year-old girl to walk free.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the case of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, whose body was found in a heavily wooded area behind her home. ABC News reports the teen suspect, who is reportedly female, is the older sister of the little friend Elizabeth was last seen playing with. Law enforcement will not confirm this report to HLN.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sheriff wants first degree murder charges. As he plainly says, this was something that was planned. He says that they have written evidence and they have also talked with the 15-year-old girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The teen will not be allowed to go home while waiting to see if she will be tried as an adult or a juvenile.
GRACE: Malice or premeditation can be formed in the blink of an eye, in the snap of a finger, the time it takes you to raise a gun and pull the trigger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An attorney representing the teen wave waived the detention hearing today. The teen suspect will remain at the juvenile detention center until the certification hearing November 18th.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at the seriousness of the case, the fact that it resulted in death. This kid is not going to be prosecuted in juvenile hall, but in real adult jail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also today, KMIZ reports the home searched shortly after the body was found is the same home the suspect lives in. Yesterday, we learned from neighbors that the home searched is also the home of Elizabeth`s friend she was last seen playing with. Police will not say how these two reports are connected.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mindset of the killer is that there is a preoccupation with wreaking vengeance and seeking harm and rendering the victims into a very helpless state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, Colorado. The whole country on pins and needles, a 6-year-old boy`s life hanging in the balance and a beautiful silver space-like balloon soaring through the clouds, police, sheriffs, National Guards, even an airport and commercial carriers trying to save the life of a 6-year-old boy whose parents swear is trapped inside that balloon.
After 60 miles of terror, the balloon lands. No boy. Was he dead? Was he lying down a ravine with every bone in his body broken? No, he was hiding in the family attic the whole time, blurting out on TV it was all, quote, "for the show." On two morning shows, the boy so nervous, he vomits.
After an alleged domestic abuse 911 call and a video where the boys sing a rap song their dad taught them full of filthy language, the title so vulgar, a slur on women, I will not repeat, and after another attempt of daddy using the boys as fodder for a reality show and a confession from Mommy it was all a hoax from the get-go, bombshell tonight. Just when you think there couldn`t be more, home video surfaces on TMZ of Daddy with one of the boys as an infant, forcing a cigar into the baby`s mouth and making the baby suck on a bottle of beer. We have the video. Looks like bye-bye reality show, hello cellblock!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD HEENE, FATHER: Hey, baby! (INAUDIBLE) Hey, Bradford. (INAUDIBLE) Hey, Bradford. (INAUDIBLE) turn the TV on. (INAUDIBLE) beer. Hey, Bradford. Bradford. Bradford!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that`s good. And your hand`s in the way. Oh, God, Richard!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it.
RICHARD HEENE: (INAUDIBLE) Oh, Bradford. Bradford. Hey, Bradford. Hey, Bradford. Bradford. Bradford!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Try soft (INAUDIBLE)
RICHARD HEENE: Hey, Bradford. Bradford.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sing a song to him.
RICHARD HEENE: Mary had a little lamb, little lamb...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bark like a dog. Meow like a cat.
RICHARD HEENE: (INAUDIBLE) my other (ph) one (ph) will get pissed. Hey, Bradford!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Can you imagine putting a bottle of beer and a cigar in a newborn`s mouth?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. A 9-year-old Missouri girl plays with a friend, walks home, still daylight, only a thousand feet. She never makes it home. The search for 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten comes to an end, her body found in a wooded area just houses from her own home.
Bombshell tonight. The murder suspect in custody, a 15-year-old girl. All in court hours just ago in a bid for the 15-year-old to walk free, that`s right, free, back in the same neighborhood where she allegedly lured and murdered her little sister`s 9-year-old playmate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) ever had somebody go in, just reach inside you and pull your heart out? That`s what it`s like!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New details emerge in the case of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten, found murdered in a heavily wooded area behind her home. According to ABC News, the accused murderer, who is reportedly a 15-year- old girl, is actually the sister of the friend Elizabeth was last seen playing with. Police will not confirm this report to HLN.
GRACE: A 15-year-old girl is the murder suspect? Not just murder, premeditated malice murder one suspect? This was planned?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s absolutely ridiculous because the reality is, if this crime is premeditated, she`s going to be doing some adult time!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect will remain at the juvenile detention center until her certification hearing November 18th. At that hearing, a judge will decide whether the teen will be prosecuted as an adult or a minor. Cops want the teen charged with premeditated first degree murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... if there was a fondness for aggression. Whenever teens plan to commit violence and they want to do it and they`re fixated on it, they write about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meanwhile, according to KMIZ, the home searched right after Elizabeth`s body was found is the same home where the teen suspect lives. Neighbors told us yesterday the home is also where Elizabeth was last seen playing with her little friend. What`s the connection? Police will not say.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`ll be extremely likely that you`ll be able to determine cause of death. And the fact that she was very well concealed may actually help coroners figure this out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Ladd Eagan, news director and anchor with KRCG. Ladd, thank you for being with us. What can you tell me? The whole case was in court. It`s my understanding there was actually a bid for this girl to walk free after being accused of luring her little sister`s 9-year- old playmate and murdering her?
LADD EAGAN, KRCG (via telephone): Yes. Today, they were scheduled to have a detention hearing in the juvenile court system. And when they got there, however, the 15-year-old`s attorney waived the right to the hearing. And so she will remain at the detention center for the -- the youth detention center until the hearing in three weeks from now that will determine if she`ll be tried as an adult or not.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Joann, Alabama. Hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to know how a 15-year-old can do this to a child? And I watch you talking about your twins, and I have grandchildren myself, you know, that goes and plays with their playmates. How can she get away with this?
GRACE: Well, I can tell you this, Joann in Alabama. I would never, at this point, ever -- and I know it sounds overprotective -- let the twins walk home from a playmate`s home, even in the neighborhood. Absolutely not.
To you, Caryn Stark, psychologist joining us from New York. I don`t understand the psychopathy behind this act. A 15-year-old girl? Aren`t they usually playing basketball or soccer or cheerleading or something, 4- H, I don`t know. Murdering a 9-year-old little girl? And allegedly, the little girl leaves the home to go home, and she`s lured back into the home by the 15-year-old.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: This is not a normal 15-year-old girl, Nancy, which is why I can understand...
GRACE: OK, Caryn, no offense. No offense, Caryn. I mean, you are the shrink, not me. But I already know that. I already know she`s no normal 15-year-old girl, OK? So let`s shed some different light on this.
STARK: So this kind of a 15-year-old girl, Nancy, would not be playing basketball. This is 15-year-old girl who I would be interested in seeing probably has behavioral problems. I`d want to see what her relationship is in abusing animals, what it`s like for her in school. So it`s hard to comprehend...
GRACE: OK, Caryn, again, don`t mean to interrupt you, but who cares what her record is in school? I mean, she`s charged with murdering, premeditated! That means it`s no accident. It wasn`t a spur of the moment thing. She premeditatedly lured this child back, a 9-year-old little girl, to murder her, then, according to sources, concealed her body so well cops couldn`t find it! It was only a few feet away from the child`s cell phone, and they still couldn`t find the body.
STARK: Well, Nancy, you`re right to be outraged because this is somebody who has an antisocial personality. And the best I can tell you is that it would be her inclination to do something like that. She`s not normal. She wouldn`t go ahead and do the kinds of things...
GRACE: Agreed.
STARK: ... that you would think a teenager would be doing.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Susan Moss, New York, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney Atlanta, John Burris, defense attorney San Francisco. Renee, now I understand why she was a no-show in court. To actually go before a judge and ask to wait at home with Mommy and Daddy, back in the same home where she allegedly lured a 9-year-old girl to her death -- are they kidding?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, it was obviously a strategic move. But can I just switch back to what Caryn was saying? It is going to be important what kind of life she led because they`re going to determine whether she`s going to be handled as a juvenile or an adult.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s just a baby. I mean, her mom, I mean, she`s a wreck! I mean, she`s like I am. Her dad`s a wreck.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A horse-drawn carriage carries the remains of the 9-year-old girl hundreds spent two days last week searching for. The devastating ending to that search drew dozens back together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to ABC News, the accused murderer, who is reportedly a 15-year-old girl, is actually the sister of the friend Elizabeth was last seen playing with. Police will not confirm this report to HLN.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missouri state statutes allows for A and B felony cases involving juveniles to be open hearings to the general public. This will be the case unless the juvenile court judge orders it closed.
KURT VALENTINE, SUSPECT`S ATTORNEY: There`s no way this juvenile will get a fair trial in this city, county, state. I don`t know where my client will get a fair trial once this name is released and the facts of the case are released.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. With me right now is a very special guest. Joining us from St. Martins, Missouri, Peggy Florence. This is the Olten family spokesperson. Ms. Florence, thank you for being with us.
PEGGY FLORENCE, OLTEN FAMILY SPOKESPERSON (via telephone): Hello, Nancy.
GRACE: Ms. Florence, please tell me how the Olten family is doing tonight.
FLORENCE: Well, the family is doing as well as can be expected. The family is a very strong and loving family and they`re pulling (ph) upon each other and supporting one another in this terrible time.
GRACE: Ms. Florence, according to all of our sources, this was an extremely safe neighborhood, that the mom did everything right. She knew where her daughter was, just down the street with a playmate. It was about a thousand feet away. It was daylight. And she had a cell phone for Elizabeth to stay in touch with her all the time.
FLORENCE: Yes. It was a very safe neighborhood. She did everything right. She was a very loving and concerned mother.
GRACE: Peggy Florence, the family, the Olten family, knows this 15- year-old girl. Is that correct?
FLORENCE: The children played together, yes.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Lakisha in Indiana. Hi, Lakisha.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. First of all, my family and I thank you very much for what you do for the children and victims.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I was wanting to wish you a happy belated birthday. My birthday is November the 1st. I don`t know how to contact your show to wish me a happy birthday. I would appreciate...
GRACE: Well, you know what, Lakisha?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... if you could wish me one.
GRACE: You stay on the line and our producers will get your information. And I want to wish you a happy birthday ahead of time, and thank you very much. What is your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I know you might not care, but other people might care. I was wondering with the 15-year-old suspect, if she was at the house or where she was at before she killed Elizabeth.
GRACE: To Rupa Mikkilineni...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, before all this happened.
GRACE: Right -- our producer on the story. Rupa, it`s my understanding she was at the home where they were playing.
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s my understanding, as well. Sources have indicated that she is the older sister of Elizabeth`s playmate. She was in the home at the time.
GRACE: I want to go back to Ms. Peggy Florence, the Olten family spokesperson. You know, Ms Florence, we read about statistics, about homicide statistics all the time. I study them. I pore over them to determine patterns and assessing methods of homicide. But I want to talk about Elizabeth and what kind of a girl...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Thank you.
GRACE: ... she was. What can you tell me? She`s not just a statistic. This is a beautiful, vivacious little 9-year-old with her whole life ahead of her. Tell me about her.
FLORENCE: I`ve been with the family since this started, and they have shared so many wonderful things with me about Elizabeth -- her smile, she always was happy. She loved her little nieces and nephews. What she aspired to be when she grew up, she was a little girl, she wanted to be a mother. She wanted to love others and take care of others. She was -- she was -- she was just a lovely child. She was -- she never met an animal she didn`t love and she didn`t dress up and play with. She dressed in fancy little dresses and would go run in the snow and play in the mud. But she was just a beautiful little girly-girl, Nancy, that had everyone`s heart.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She disappeared Wednesday when she was playing at a neighbor friend`s house. She was supposed to walk home. It was just a quarter mile walk back to her house. She didn`t show up. At 7:00 o`clock, when she didn`t show up, the parents called the police. Hundreds of people searching for the next two days, dogs searching. They found cell phone pings in the area, so they knew that the cell phone wasn`t very far from the area, the neighborhood where she was last seen. Then they got this anonymous tip. Either it was a letter or again I`m sure this written evidence that the sheriff was talking about. And then immediately afterwards, this led them to the 15-year-old suspect, who then led them to the body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Rebecca in Pennsylvania. Hi, Rebecca.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just want to tell you I absolutely love you and I watch you every night. I`m a huge fan. And I told...
GRACE: Thank you, Rebecca in Pennsylvania. I appreciate that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I told my mom to watch, and I hope she hears me and gets me your book for Christmas, so -- I just had a question for you. I was wondering if they have released anything as far as, like, the autopsy or the manner that died?
GRACE: Out to Ladd Eagan with KRCG. I don`t believe they have released the autopsy report, correct?
EAGAN: Correct. They have not. And we do know that it was completed on Saturday, but other than that, they say it`s all sealed because of the juvenile court proceedings have to be sealed until it`s said that she can be tried as an adult. And at that point, we`ll know a lot more.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Susan Moss, Renee Rockwell, John Burris. John Burris, you know, I know that you`re not a statistician. But when you think back over all the murder cases you have defended -- and I`m thinking back over all the murder cases I prosecuted and investigated -- I would imagine, just based on our anecdotal statistical memory that this was what they call a "soft kill," either a strangulation, a smothering. There could be a blow to the head maybe. What`s your take, cause of death?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that you probably have it right. I don`t see this as a gunshot or a knifing type case at all. I don`t. But I will say this. It is perfectly fair that they`re going to have a lot of psychological investigation around this young girl because it`s so abnormal. When I`ve had 15-year-olds in murder cases, I`ve always...
GRACE: You know what, Burris?
BURRIS: I know you don`t like it, but I will tell you...
GRACE: Go ahead. No, no! No, no!
BURRIS: ... you`ve got to do it.
GRACE: I`d be mad if you didn`t.
BURRIS: I have to do it.
GRACE: And a jury will probably take it with the same box of salt that I am!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news in the case of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten whose body was found at a heavily wooded area behind her home. ABC News reports the teen suspect, who is reportedly female, is the older sister of the little friend Elizabeth was last seen playing with.
Law enforcement will not confirm this report to HLN. The teen will not be allowed to go home while waiting to find out if she will be tried as an adult or juvenile. An attorney representing the teen waived the detention hearing today. The teen suspect will remain at the juvenile detention center until the certification hearing November 18.
Also today KMIZ reports the home search shortly after the body was found is the same home the suspect lives in. Yesterday, we learned from neighbors that the home search is also the home of Elizabeth`s friend she was last seen playing with. Police will not say how these two reports are connected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. Out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "Killing for Sport." Pat, I hardly even know where to start with you. Because all of this is your expertise. I want you to weigh in on your profile of this 15-year-old girl.
I got to tell you something, Pat. Of all the cases I have ever prosecuted, investigated or covered, this one has really thrown me for a loop. Because when I immediately see a set of facts, I conjure up in my mind, analytically, who I think the perp is. All right? I would have never guessed a 15-year-old playmate sister. Never.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": Well, I`m with you there because we haven`t had very many young females do this to kind of thing to little children. But we are seeing an increase of violence among those female -- you know, those teenagers these days.
And I`d say, you know, my book was called "Killing for Sport." This is what this girl did. She killed for sport. She killed for a thrill. She`s a cold-blooded psychopath. No remorse. No guilt. But maybe she`s watched one too many slasher films and so that`s kind of thing I want to do because that`ll give me the fun, which I don`t get out of normal teen activities.
I want to give a warning to parents. When you let your child over to play, not only should the playmate be OK, check those parents out, but the sisters and brothers. If you don`t trust all of that family implicitly, don`t let them go over there because they might have one of these creatures sitting around the house.
GRACE: Hey, hey, hey. You are preaching to the choir. John David and Lucy`s little playschool teachers, they look out the window and there I am standing there. Looking in. Just checking.
BROWN: It`s the right thing. Absolutely.
GRACE: You know, you absolutely cannot be too safe. But I want to also ask you, in your expertise, the mode of killing. Because the autopsy report has not yet been released.
BROWN: Right. Generally speaking, I think you`re right. Normally we have a strangulation type thing. A suffocation. But this girl also might like to beat somebody with a rock or a something like that. I don`t think guns. Possibly a knife. But I tend to think it`s going to be a hands-on kind of thing.
GRACE: OK. Back to the lines, Mercia in Pennsylvania. Hi, dear.
MERCIA, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call. I actually have two quick questions.
GRACE: OK.
MERCIA: I actually have two quick questions for you. My first one is, do they know for sure if the letter was written by the 15-year-old girl and not somebody else? My second question is, do they have motive yet?
GRACE: Good question. To Rupa Mikkilineni, we were told yesterday that police were led to the 15-year-old playmate`s sister because of written evidence. Now we later thought to be true that the girl had written out a diary. Apparently, there was an anonymous letter that went to police from who? What do we know?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: The police are being very tight lipped about this but they did announce initially that there was some type of a correspondence which led them to the 15-year-old suspect. Then later they said when they were charging her with the first-degree premeditated murder that they have written evidence, which leads us to believe that there are two separate written pieces of information. One possibly a diary, the other is correspondence. But we don`t know to who from -- from possibly the suspect.
GRACE: To Dr. Kent Harshbarger, medical examiner, forensic pathologist, joining us out of Dayton, Ohio. Doctor, thank you for being with us. Again, the autopsy report has not yet been released. The child`s body was in the element for several days. Do you think they`ll be able to pinpoint cause of death?
DR. KENT HARSHBARGER, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Sure. They should be able to. And being concealed like that and might be partially buried actually will help in the short time physical evidence may be preserved, it`s not out in the rain, the wind washing away potential evidence.
Plus the remains, out of the sun, out of those elements will help slow down decomposition. So analysis should be very precise.
GRACE: To Tom Shamshak, former police chief, private investigators, instructor at Boston University.
Tom, thank you for being with us. Tom, what should the police be doing right now to prove this case?
TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, INSTRUCTOR AT BOSTON UNIV.: Well, Nancy, they should be looking in the social network area on the Internet, namely MySpace accounts. I suspect that this individual boasted to somebody in her peer group. And that individual might have spoken to a parent and that`s how the information found its way to the police.
But, all of their -- this child`s acquaintances, friends, schoolmates, teachers, they should all be interviewed very, very extensively by investigators associated with this case. They will come to some more information. And I won`t be surprised if people won`t come forward now and say that yes, I`d heard that this was in the plans.
GRACE: You know, Tom, these pictures of Elizabeth are just killing me because, you know, every day, when I look at Lucy, I think she is the most beautiful girl I have ever seen. And I know, Elizabeth`s parents thought the same thing about her. I just -- I don`t know how you cope with the death of a child like this.
Back to the lawyers. Susan Moss, Renee Rockwell, John Burris.
Susan Moss, now I understand, the more I hear about the case, why the girl was a no-show in court today. How dare they go to a judge to even ask that she goes back to the home where she allegedly lured a 9-year-old little girl to her death? Walk free. Back in the same neighborhood.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Let her go. Oh, heck no. But I`ve got to tell you something. Lured back by a criminal, any type of juvenile punishment is too minimal. This girl is going to be tried as an adult, she`s going to get an adult sentence. I don`t care how many psychological test you throw at that judge, it will be in an adult court.
GRACE: That hearing is scheduled in the next weeks. Will this 15- year-old girl face up to adult trial on an adult crime? That crime, allegedly premeditated, planned malice murder of this 9-year-old little girl. Her little sister`s playmate.
We are switching gears. More out of the balloon boy story. You know you think you have seen it all. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, baby. Bradford. Hey, Bradford.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where`s Daddy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn the TV on. Take the bear. Take this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Bradford. Yummy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get him to look at you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bradford. Bradford.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s good. Your hand is in the way. Oh, god, Richard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Just when I thought that lying to the police was bad enough, having your three little boys lie to the police, just so you can get famous was bad enough.
Ellie Jostad, all time low. I would rip the hand off somebody that gave a beer bottle to Lucy or John David to suck on or a cigar, for Pete`s sake.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, this is another video, allegedly of the Heene family. In this video you see the oldest boy, Bradford, then just a baby. He is propped up on a couch and Richard Heene is trying to pose him with a cigar, putting it in his hand, in his little mouth. And then you see him right there sucking on the beer bottle.
GRACE: OK, let`s go to the defense attorneys. Renee Rockwell, you`re the defense attorney. Has your client lost his mind? The more these people are out there, the more that surfaces that gets worse and worse and worse.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, talking about losing his mind, that`s not going to rise to any level of a mental defense. But he`s got much bigger problems than this, Nancy. How about a little bit of conspiracy or contributing to the delinquency of a juvenile and having those children lie like you did.
GRACE: Let me remind you, Miss Rockwell. You are acting as the defense attorney. I don`t need a chorus behind me.
ROCKWELL: I just can`t.
GRACE: Very quickly, we are taking your calls live. We`ll show you that video in full. Go ahead and buckle your seatbelt. But quickly, to tonight`s safety tips. Halloween just a few days away. Please keep safe while you`re trick or treating. Don`t trick or treat alone, don`t let your children go alone. You`ve got to supervise your children.
Have them walk in groups, stay on sidewalks, if you`ve got sidewalks. Use flashlights after dark. Put reflective tape on costumes and bags. Never go inside somebody`s home. Never. Wait outside for candy.
Wear flame resistant costumes. Accessories like fake swords or knives should be short and flexible. Look over the candy. Let your children only eat those that are wrapped individually and avoid homemade treats, please.
Drive safely. Watch out for trick or treaters. Lucy and John David and mommy will be out there. For more information, go to cdc.gov.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Bradford.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, baby. Bradford. Hey, Bradford.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where`s Daddy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn the TV on. Take the bear. Take this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Bradford. Hey, Bradford. Yummy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take the bear. Take this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Bradford.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now get him to look at you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bradford. Bradford.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s good. Your hand is in the way. Oh, god, Richard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your hand is in the way. He`s bottling the bottle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, Bradford. Bradford. Hey, Bradford. Hey, Bradford. Bradford. Bradford.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Try soft talk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Brad? Bradford.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sing a song to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Singing) Mary had a little lamb, little lamb.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bark like a dog.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Woof, woof.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meow like a cat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My other one will get pissed. Hey, Bradford. Pay attention. Pay attention when I`m talking to you, son. Pull him out of the way. Now, look. Bradford. Bradford.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He loves it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now here`s what you`ve got to do. Hey, pay attention when I`m talking to you. Hey, hey, I`m talking over here. Hey, buddy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, Renee Rockwell, I was worried about switching the twins from formula to real milk, I thought it might upset their stomach. But that`s a cold Miller genuine draft that that baby has got in its mouth. It`s an infant. Thoughts?
ROCKWELL: Nancy, again, it`s just in poor taste but it`s all.
GRACE: Poor taste? Poor taste?
ROCKWELL: It`s not illegal, Nancy. It`s not going to rise to the level of the family getting an entire rescue operation where people could have lost their lives looking for Falcon, the 6-year-old that was just hiding in the attic, if you will.
GRACE: Let`s go to Nia Bender, news director, 17 KNUS Radio.
Nia, thank you for being with us. No. I doubt, since the stature has run, the child is now 10 years old, there`s going to be any prosecution for feeding the baby a beer bottle and a cigar. But it`s just part of a long line of using these three boys, whether it`s that kooky reality show that we showed you last night or the balloon hoax where thousands of dollars were lost and genuine 911 calls were diverted trying to save the boy`s life in a balloon, he wasn`t in there, to the rap song with the vulgar female slur. I refuse to even say it on the air. This is just one in a pattern.
NIA BENDER, NEWS DIRECTOR, 710 KNUS RADIO (via phone): It is one in a pattern. And about the time you think it`s just not going to get any more bizarre, it does with this shocking video. And I have three kids, and I mean, I can`t even fathom doing something like. And, you know, even if this was meant as some kind of joke, what are you doing releasing this stuff? You know, my question is, you just -- you don`t do this with babies.
GRACE: But you know what it reminds me of, Nia. Rosy, see if you can pull up the video of the little boy on the morning show, Falcon, vomiting. And the father just keeps giving his interview and the mom holds a Tupperware over to the little boy. And they all like act like nothing`s happening.
BENDER: It`s because it`s all about dad. It is. The whole thing is all about dad.
GRACE: Nia, is it true that to top it all off, the icing on the cake -- wait, here we go with the vomit. Can you pull down? There you go. This is off the "Today" show. Do we have sound on that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD HEENE, FATHER OF "BALLOON BOY": That what he was referring to when -- he made that statement.
MEREDITH VIEIRA, "TODAY" SHOW HOST: And I know, I want to point out that the sheriff`s office said last night that they believe your account of what happened, but they do want to question you a little bit more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is Meredith Vieira interviewing Heene while his kid vomits in his lap. And did it happen on another morning show? And they just kept on the interview, again. The boy is being asked to lie not only on national television but to police. The mommy breaks down and admits it was all a hoax.
To Ellie Jostad, please tell me I`m wrong. I want to be wrong on this. Is it true the Heenes are now pointing the finger at the sheriff saying they are responsible for wrongdoing?
JOSTAD: Right. Actually the Heene`s lawyer, the lawyer for Richard Heene, has asked that the sheriff be investigated. He`s.
GRACE: Wait, wait.
JOSTAD: Yes.
GRACE: Richard Heene, the daddy who taught the kids this filthy rap song and then to put it on YouTube, he is claiming the sheriff did something wrong? Did you just say that?
JOSTAD: That`s right. They are asking for a criminal investigation into the sheriff.
GRACE: Of the sheriff.
JOSTAD: Into the sheriff, because they say that sheriff mentioned to the press that he had instructed CPS to look into the case.
GRACE: Child Protective Services.
JOSTAD: Right.
GRACE: Well, wouldn`t he -- wouldn`t he, John Burris, the sheriff be derelict in his duty if he did not refer this case to Child Protective Services?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s true. He should do that. But that doesn`t mean he`s supposed to tell the entire world about it. And that`s a privilege. He`s not supposed to tell anybody.
GRACE: Whoa. Whoa. Burris, Burris.
BURRIS: This is confidential information.
GRACE: Please. Let me have a little respect for you. OK? Because keep it confidential? This family has kept nothing confidential.
BURRIS: No. No. No. The issue of going to -- two wrongs don`t make a right. The sheriff is not supposed to give up confidential information about somebody you referred to CPS. He`s not supposed to do that. Now that doesn`t mean that just because the other people have committed criminal conduct, he gets to himself waive the particular rights that these individuals have. He doesn`t have a right to do that. So I can see where he could be.
GRACE: So.
BURRIS: They wanted.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: He doesn`t have a right -- you`re saying he has a right to allegedly provide a horrible home environment, mistreat his children, coax them to lie, but the public cannot find out Child Protective Services are involved?
BURRIS: No. No. No. The public has a right to find out but only after the investigation has taken place. And then a (INAUDIBLE).
GRACE: OK.
BURRIS: If you want to prosecute him criminally do that.
GRACE: Sue Moss, weigh in.
BURRIS: That`s (INAUDIBLE).
MOSS: If Charges against Heene are a go, then this information can be let go. The way it works is, if Child Protective Services does bring either a neglect or abuse petition against this family, then the information is free game.
GRACE: We`ll be right back. Taking your calls. But as we go to break, happy birthday to Florida friend Mimi. 87 years old, she loves Bridge, vacationing in Mexico, devoted to her husband of 67 years, Stan, two children, two grandchildren, two greats. They never miss a show.
Happy birthday, beautiful Mimi.
And happy birthday to veteran Atlanta defense attorney, Miss Rockwell. A Cajun from Louisiana, she`s one of five Cajun Catholic kids. She followed one of those husbands to Atlanta and took the courthouse by storm. When I first saw her in court, she was wearing purple boots. It`s at a time we couldn`t even wear long pants to court. I knew right then she was a keeper.
Happy birthday, Renee.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now get him to look at you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bradford, Bradford.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that`s good. Your hand is in the way. Oh god, Richard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop it. Stop it. Stop it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your hand is in the way. He`s following the bottle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You`re seeing just surfaced video from TMZ of Richard Heene having his infant boy pose with a genuine draft beer and a cigar.
Ellie Jostad, am I missing something? Is there more to this story other than those?
(LAUGHTER)
JOSTAD: Well, in addition to all of this, we still don`t know if or when any criminal charges are going to come down against the Heenes. On Monday, the sheriff presented their.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Ellie, Ellie, look at your screen. See mommy, Mayumi?
JOSTAD: Yes.
GRACE: Look at her telling the story on national TV.
JOSTAD: Right. Right.
GRACE: Telling it over and over and over with a straight face. Then she says she can`t speak English. That that`s the problem.
JOSTAD: Yes. Right. Right. Well, yes, according to the sheriff`s department, they say that she told them that they lied. That they instructed the kids to lie. That they built this balloon with the purpose of creating a hoax. So that`s -- you know, according to prosecutors but they`re going to wait and they`re going to ask for more information from the sheriff`s department before they decide if they`re going to file charges.
GRACE: To Wanda in Tennessee, hi, Wanda.
WANDA, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
WANDA: My question is, do you have any information on if this guy has ever been on the -- psychiatric care. Because he sounds absolutely nuts.
GRACE: Ellie, what do we know?
JOSTAD: We don`t know anything about that. I mean we`ve heard a lot about Richard Heene in these videos he`s posted, his TV aspirations, but nothing about him getting any kind of psychiatric care.
GRACE: You know what? I blame mommy just as much. There she is wiping the vomit from her kid`s mouth while they are using the children, using them -- having them lie to police for them to get somewhat kind of kooky reality show.
Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Private First Class Kelly Youngblood, just 19, Mesa, Arizona, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Good Conduct medal.
Dreamed of being a soldier since third grade. Remembered for a sense of humor, big heart. Loved video games, skateboarding, riding his bike. Leaves behind parents Kristen and David, two brothers, two sisters.
Kelly Youngblood, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being was. See you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
