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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Could Gang Rape Have Been Prevented?; Jon Gosselin, Octomom to Do Reality Show; Facing the Music; Agassi`s Toxic Secret
Aired October 29, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight the war on women hits our high schools. Stomach-churning developments in the brutal gang rape outside a homecoming dance. Five teens have been arrested. But this is just the beginning. Cops say as many as ten people were involved in the rape, and ten more watched and did nothing. Where was security? This happened on school grounds during a school event, and the rape lasted 2 1/2 hours. This is an outrage. We need to wake up and say, "Enough is enough."
Seismic developments in a case of the drunk-driving mom accused of boozing it up, then getting behind the wheel with seven young girls packed in the car. One of the girls is dead. Now, the D.A. is throwing the book at this woman. I say good. It`s about time we have harsher penalties for parents who put children in danger.
Toxic secrets of a tennis superstar. Andre Agassi admits to using crystal meth at the peak of his tennis career. Agassi`s a legend and was a role model for kids. How did he manage to keep this toxic secret and still perform? And is he the only one? Are drugs a problem in professional sports?
Reality TV turns completely surreal. Is Jon Gosselin teaming up with the Octomom? The two have reportedly agreed to date and broadcast their relationship on reality TV. So if you`re doing the math at home, Jon plus Octomom equals 22 kids. Do these people even care they`ve become the ultimate laughingstock, or is it all about the money?
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Growing outrage tonight over a crime that has horrified the nation. Four teenagers accused in a sadistic gang rape are hauled into court, wearing bulletproof vests for their own safety, because people are just so angry about this.
A 15-year-old girl raped and beaten for 2 1/2 hours on high school grounds. In a moment we will talk to her friend who says they both felt extremely unsafe at school.
On Saturday night the victim walked out of a homecoming dance, of all things, all dressed up and hair done. She was waiting for her dad to pick up when she was lured to a dark courtyard and mercilessly attacked. Police discovered her hours later.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. MARK GAGAN, RICHMOND POLICE: As the officers made contact with the victim and found that she was unconscious and was stripped naked. What we do know is that multiple suspects physically beat her, robbed her and sexually assaulted her. And only a few hours ago was she released from the hospital.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Five males, ages 15 to 21, in custody tonight. Four of them charged as adults. The fifth has not been charged yet. The prosecutor is pursuing life sentences for all of them. Would that be justice? We will debate it.
Then there`s the crowd of students who watched the rape, laughed and even snapped pictures on their cell phones. Is this case proof that all the sexually-charged violence on TV and the movies and in video games is numbing teenaged males to violence? Everybody involved in this, according to cops.
And let`s not forget: this hideous attack happened on school property right under the noses of teachers, chaperones, and police officers. How much does this school care about safety? Why weren`t there security cameras in place to stop and stop this right away?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were laughed at last summer for asking for 13 security guards. We were laughed at when we said we needed $80,000 worth of cameras. I went to the Jean (ph) Middle School myself to look at their camera systems to make sure that those would be the best quality for Richmond High. Our school approved them. We never got them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Maybe we should put the students, these girls who were speaking, in charge of this school. Because this innocent 15-year-old girl was exposed so early to what we here on ISSUES call the war on women. This is a national crisis, and now it`s spreading to our schools.
What do you think? Why did this happen? How can we stop it from happening again? Call me and let me know.
And now let me welcome my fantastic panel: criminal defense attorney Darren Kavinoky; Stacey Honowitz, supervisor of the sex crimes unit in the Florida prosecutor`s office; forensic psychologist Brian Russell; Steve Rogers, detective lieutenant with the Nutley, New Jersey, Police Department; Judge Karen Mills Francis, host of "The Judge Karen Show." And joining me on the phone, Cammy Baker, a friend of this young victim.
Cammy, thank you for joining us. I know that this has to be very, very difficult for you, and I applaud your courage in speaking out and coming forth. You were at the dance that night. Set the stage for us. Did you feel afraid during the dance or as you left that night?
CAMMY BAKER, FRIEND OF VICTIM (via phone): I really didn`t (DISTORTION).
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cammy -- you have to turn your TV down, honey, or else we can`t hear you. You`re going to have some feedback.
BAKER: I don`t have the TV on right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, we`ve got a little bit of a problem there. Let me ask -- let me ask Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, while we try to iron out the audio problem.
Stacey, what`s going on here? What is going on with this crime? I understand that, you know, there are approximately 30 males, all told, involved. You can count the ten who allegedly participated, some of whom have been arrested, allegedly. And you count the 20 more who observed, in some way, shape or form. You`ve got 30 young males participating in this horrific, unthinkable, obscene act.
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR`S OFFICE: Yes. They didn`t think it was an obscene, unspeakable act. It was a sport to them. It was a violent, disgusting display of what goes on every single day, I hate to say.
And, you know, you have all these people that stood there and watched, and there`s no good Samaritan law saying that somebody`s got to make a phone call, but I`m going to tell you something, Jane. There are so many factors that you mentioned at the top of the show. You talked about being desensitized to what goes on on television, in movies.
Another big factor that I believe is that a lot of juveniles are given a slap on the wrist and let out the door. And so when people -- when young men engage in acts like this, they don`t believe or they don`t realize what the consequences are going to be.
I applaud this prosecutor for filing directly as adults, and I -- I am so happy that they`re seeking to put these guys away for life, because you`re going to hear people say they`re only 15 and 16. And that`s what happens. We give them a break. And when you give them a break, they never believe that they could get in trouble. And this is what we`re witnessing now all over the country.
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Absolutely. And it`s not good for them or the victims, because now we`re going to come down on them and lock them up for life. But if we would have come down on them hard the first time they got in trouble -- and I guarantee you Stacey is right; they`ve all been in trouble before -- they might have at least been unavailable do this. And if they had been available, they might have not...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How about instead of just cracking down, how about if we teach compassion? How about if we teach nonviolence?
RUSSELL: How about if we teach morals?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How about if we teach...
RUSSELL: Right and wrong.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... morals. How about if we teach right and wrong?
RUSSELL: Right and wrong and also the...
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And Jane...
(CROSSTALK)
KAVINOKY: ... make an excellent point. Jane...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Darren Kavinoky.
KAVINOKY: If I can, thank you. This is a bandwagon I`ve been jumping on for a long, long time. Because we constantly complain about recidivist criminal behavior and things of that nature. But we don`t do things to attack and address the underlying flaws in belief systems that cause people to commit horrific crimes in the first place.
So I agree with you. I applaud you wholeheartedly. This is something that needs to be addressed on a fundamental level.
RUSSELL: Jane, I just wrote a column last weekend.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold it. Who said column?
RUSSELL: I just -- it`s Brian Russell. I just wrote a column last weekend in World Net Daily called "Cultural Chaos Compounding Crime." And I think that part of this is specific to women, these cultural factors that we`re talking about. And part of it is just general cultural decay.
There`s no emphasis on right and wrong in a lot of kids households growing up. There`s a huge emphasis on the self and that life is about getting what you want by the fastest means possible. Even if you have to take it, there`s this desensitizing effect of media on -- it`s a dehumanizing effect where people don`t think of others as human beings.
And electronic media plays into that, because if all you see are screen names and smiling profile pictures, you lose the sense of the person...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Forget about smiling profile pictures. All you see is...
(CROSSTALK)
KAVINOKY: Jane, there is another issue...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on one second. All you see is rape. I challenge anyone to take their remote, if they`ve got a lot of cable channels, and just start clicking, clicking, clicking, and see how long it takes you to come upon an act of violence by a man against a woman.
This is literally Pavlov`s dogs. We are indoctrinating young people to be violent, and we are associating masculinity with violence, and we are associating sexuality with sadistic violence.
STEVE ROGERS, DETECTIVE LIEUTENANT, NUTLEY, NEW JERSEY, POLICE DEPARTMENT: And Jane, there is another issue here.
HONOWITZ: Don`t tell Hollywood that. Don`t tell Hollywood that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Steve Rogers. Steve Rogers.
ROGERS: Jane -- Jane, there is another issue here we have to look at. And that is the underreporting or failure to report inappropriate behavior, sexual assaults, by school districts across this country, because they`re concerned about their image.
Police officers see this constantly, where at a young age women, young girls, are being inappropriately touched, et cetera, et cetera. They`re not being reported. They have to be reported. Young women have to know that they`re going to be taken care of.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We also need to talk about this whole "no snitching" mentality. Because all these people watched. The only reason it was reported to cops is that two of them were talking about it later. Some third party overheard and called cops.
You may remember this recent news story: 15-year-old Michael Brewer snitched on another teen, trying to steal his dad`s bike a few weeks ago. A group of boys cornered him, doused him in rubbing alcohol, and set him on fire. I actually spoke to Michael`s mom days after this hideous attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VALERIE BREWER, MOTHER OF BURNING VICTIM: I won`t leave his side unless a doctor has to talk to me or if they have to change Michael`s bandages, which takes anywhere from 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours, because he has so many burns. They have to heavily sedate him so he does not feel any of the pain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Judge Karen, hideous violence by kids. And it`s all based on this "don`t snitch at all costs." Where do they get that?
KAREN MILLS FRANCIS, HOST, "THE JUDGE KAREN SHOW": I don`t know where they get it from. But when you talk about surfing down the channel and seeing violence against women, you surf down the channel, and you see how much women are objectified. You look at music videos, and you see girls half naked, and doing everything and anything to get a man`s attention. I think that...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s not blame the girls. OK.
FRANCIS: I`m not blaming the girls. I`m blaming what the boys see about the girls.
RUSSELL: Culturally, Jane, what we have done is we`ve eliminated the elevated status that women used to have.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
RUSSELL: It used to be that the people might watch violence against a man, and they might be somewhat upset, but if they saw violence against a woman, they would be very upset. And we`ve eliminated that double standard.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, we`re numb to it. We`re numb to it.
RUSSELL: Yes, and we should not. It makes sense to have an elevated status of women in that regard.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hang on.
RUSSELL: They are the more valuable half of the species, if you just think about it, logically.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I agree with you there, obviously. It`s not funny. It`s a sad, sad, sad, sad story.
More on this horrific gang rape in a moment. We`re also taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Plus, throwing the book at drunk-driving parents. They put their kids at risk. They should pay the price. We`ll have the latest on the alleged New York drunk-driving crash that killed an innocent little girl.
But first, cops say 20 males watched a teenage girl get brutally raped. They did nothing to stop it. To make things worse, these voyeuristic punks may not even be charged, the ones who watched.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GAGAN: We can not arrest and prosecute any people that just watched. I think that that`s one of the most disturbing aspects of this case. But in California, and actually, it`s a national law, that the victim of the crime has to be 14 or under, and in this case, our victim is 15.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LT. JOHAN SMITH, RICHMOND POLICE DEPARTMENT: Officers then discovered a 15-year-old female lying beneath one of the benches. We found her lying there, and she was unconscious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A 15-year-old girl, unconscious and naked from the waist down. That`s how police found her Saturday night after she was gang raped in front of a crowd of witnesses. The attack went on for 2 1/2 hours. None of them did anything to stop it, causing national outrage.
Phone lines lighting up.
Helen, Maryland, your question or thought, ma`am? Helen?
CALLER: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi. Your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: OK. My thing is that all this stuff that`s going on (DISTORTION).
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Guess what? No more phone calls tonight.
All right. I want to ask Stacey Honowitz. I`m so sorry, ma`am, we lost you there, and I apologize, but we`re having problems with our phone lines.
I want to ask you about security and the lack thereof at the school. The school planned to get a surveillance system installed in January. And my question is why didn`t they already have one? You heard that the kids were asking for one.
This horrible attack went on for 2 1/2 hours. If they had video cameras, it could have been spotted and stopped in seconds. Beyond that, it was steps away from a crowded homecoming dance. What were teachers, chaperones and police doing?
HONOWITZ: I mean, I...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUCE HARTER, WEST CONTRA COSTA UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT: We had four uniformed police officers and a number of teachers and administrators who were both inside and outside. We didn`t do a perimeter walk of the school. And this is on the far side of the school at the perimeter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz, if they had had security cameras that the kids had been clamoring for, they could have spotted this within the first couple of seconds and stopped it before it became this obscene horror story.
Why is it that we are going to invest millions now in prosecuting these kids, but we`re not going to invest a couple of hundred thousand bucks in getting great security systems at a school that desperately needs them?
HONOWITZ: Well, look, that`s the question that everyone wants to know. And that`s the question every school is going to be asking when they say, "Our budget has been cut. And the first thing we need to do is decide what`s the most important: do we cut out classes and books, or do we not get security systems?"
So this is going to be one hell of a lawsuit, I can tell you this much, by the parents decide to go that route, because there was no security and because they were on notice that there should have been. These girls petitioned. They politicked. They lobbied to have it, and it wasn`t there. So these questions, these are the questions that are going to be asked.
KAVINOKY: Yes, Stacey -- Stacey...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Darren.
KAVINOKY: Stacey is exactly right. The question that you are asking now is the exact same question that plaintiffs` attorneys are going to be asking of those jurors when they go and spank this school in superior court.
And, frankly, it is outrageous. You know, the -- to hear an official say, "Well, we didn`t do a perimeter walk," that`s exactly the place that you should be going.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, let me just say this. Steve Rogers, you`re -- you`re the cop here, essentially. Ninety percent of the crimes we cover here on ISSUES could be prevented if there was a camera rolling at the time. All these kids and these women who were abducted, never seen again. If there`s a camera in place, whether it`s a stadium, whether it`s a street, whether it`s an intersection, whether it`s a freeway, these people are going to be caught instantaneously.
ROGERS: You`re absolutely right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Isn`t it time in America to put cameras everywhere? Wouldn`t that be cheaper, to have cameras at every school, in every parking lot, good security cameras, rather than spending millions and millions of dollars searching for women who are never seen again? Trying to find out who raped this beautiful child?
ROGERS: Well, Jane, they`re going to spend millions and millions of dollars in lawsuits. I`ve got to tell you, you`re absolutely right. A picture`s worth more than a thousand words. Those cameras should have been up there.
But I`ll tell you what I`m curious about. I`m sure there were more than 2, 3, maybe 400 students at that dance. This gentleman says that they had maybe eight chaperones there. There`s a real problem in establishing real security at that school on that homecoming evening. Real problem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, it`s out of control.
Now, I have a final question. Is it possible, Judge Karen, that this young woman was unconscious for all of this? Because apparently, she had had something to drink and had collapsed, and that`s when she was attacked. So it`s precious comfort. But let`s hope -- just a couple of seconds -- that she was just not awake and she was unconscious during this.
FRANCIS: Well, let`s hope she was, because apparently, she had a large amount of alcohol in her system.
But I`m listening to us talk about more cameras and -- it`s all about security. Are we going to just build a fortress around ourselves in this country? There`s something wrong when 24 people have no sense of decency, no sense of urgency, no sense of civic duty to prevent this type of brutal attack. There`s something wrong with the country.
RUSSELL: That`s exactly right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there.
KAVINOKY: But just to be clear about it, there is no affirmative duty...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So disturbing. Got to leave it right there. There`s no way we could ever come to an end of this conversation.
Coming up, double trouble. Jon -- Jon Gosselin, Nadya Suleman, they make their way back into the spotlight. Could a possible romance be brewing between these two?
And an Andre Agassi shocker. You won`t believe it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Run for cover. We warned you this might happen. It`s a match made in reality TV hell.
"InTouch" magazine reporting Jon Gosselin will date the infamous Octomom, Nadya Suleman. Of course, it will all be caught on camera. Yuck. The famous twosome will reportedly get paid a million bucks to start a series dubbed "Jon Minus Kate plus Nadya." That equation equals nothing but crazy.
The show will reportedly feature Jon freaking out that if they got married they would have 22 kids between the two of them. Octomom modeling a bikini for Jon -- yikes. And Octomom`s kids calling Jon "Daddy." Oh, God.
Wait a second. What about Jon`s soul mate? Remember this ABC interview?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON GOSSELIN, REALITY TV STAR: Love her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Love her. Big word.
GOSSELIN: Huge word. I don`t know. It`s like when you look at her, I don`t know, my heart pounds. I get sweaty. I don`t know. I feel like I love her more than I did Kate.
This is someone that, I mean, my soul mate. Like people joke about that. But I`m not joking about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is about Hailey, the girlfriend.
Hailey is dropping her own bombshell now. She tells "The Insider" Jon is emotionally abusive and throws "mantrums."
Tonight, Jon insists there is no show with Nadya. And now he has enlisted spiritual advisor Rabbi Shmuley to guide him. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, SPIRITUAL ADVISOR: What you have in Jon Gosselin is a man with a good heart who`s life is being derailed by fame. It`s happened to people before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Amy Palmer, senior editor for "InTouch Weekly." Help me.
AMY PALMER, SENIOR EDITOR, "INTOUCH WEEKLY": Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The magazine says there`s a show. Jon says no way. Sort it out. Sort out this craziness for us.
PALMER: OK. Jane, one word. Money. Jon Gosselin needs money. He took himself off of that show that was his bread and butter, because he wanted his kids not to be on TV anymore, and he wanted to be in control.
Well, guess what? Jon needs cash. And this is the perfect way to do it. A million dollars is pretty good to be on a show with the Octomom. And let me tell you something. We don`t know if this is going to be a continuing series. It could be a special. Regardless, a million dollars is a million dollars. And we know Jon. It`s all about the money right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, there`s something they call that, when you date somebody for money. Because this is about dating. I think there`s a word for that, but let`s not -- let`s not identify it.
PALMER: We won`t bring that up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We won`t bring that up.
I wonder how Kate`s going to feel about all this. I mean, the Octomom, Nadya has often trashed Kate.
PALMER: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen to this. Listen to this. This is hysterical.
PALMER: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NADYA SULEMAN, MOTHER OF OCTUPLETS: She has her own obvious issues, you know, internal issues. So, you know, she needs to stop harshly making judgments towards me. She doesn`t even know me. So. That`s human nature. It tends to happen to people who are less educated.
Don`t you have, like, issues in your life? Why are you trying so desperately to glom onto life? For attention?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So first she insults Kate. Now she`s dating her soon-to-be ex? Yikes.
PALMER: Right. I mean, what would you expect from the crazy world of the Octomom and Jon Gosselin? I mean, this is normal.
I think Kate actually isn`t surprised by anything at this point. Jon really showed his true character when he left and he started dating Hailey Glassman, what, about a week later. I mean, it`s just -- it`s one bad decision after the other.
So I don`t even think this would faze Kate anymore. I think she`s just doing her own thing, and she`s really trying to provide for her family.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Oh, boy. I want to thank you, Amy. Tough assignment.
Coming up, prosecutors want the maximum time for accused drunk-driving mom Carmen Huertas. She says she`s not guilty. The latest on this horrific case. Why is she on suicide watch?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Seismic developments in the case of the drunk-driving mom accused of boozing it up, then getting behind the wheel with seven young girls packed in the car. One of the girls is dead. Now the DA is throwing the book at this woman. I say, "Good." It is about time we have harsher penalties for parents who that put kids in danger.
And toxic secrets of a tennis superstar: Andre Agassi admits to using crystal meth at the peak of his tennis career. Agassi is a legend and a role model for kids. How did he keep this a secret and still perform?
First, enough is enough. Prosecutors are throwing the book at accused drunk-driving mom Carmen Huertas. They want maximum time for the 31-year- old who is accused of boozing it up and then jamming seven little girls into her station wagon including her own daughter.
According to police, her young passengers, Huertas was flying up the highway at break-neck speeds before her car flipped over several times and then smashed right into a tree. Three girls were ejected. One of them, Leandra Rosado (ph) was killed.
Listen to what one traumatized survivor told Oprah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLA, PASSENGER OF CARMEN HUERTAS: A part where she says raise your hand if you think we are going to crash or raise your hand if you think we are going to go home safe.
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": Who said that?
KAYLA: Carmen.
And then all of a sudden the car starts to shake. And I could tell that everyone was scared. But they just didn`t want to raise their hand.
WINFREY: Nobody raised their hand? Do you remember what you were thinking at the time?
KAYLA: I know I felt scared and worried.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: As for Huertas pictured in "The New York Post" and the "New York Daily News", she`s pleaded not guilty to manslaughter from the hospital where she is on suicide watch.
Wait a second. I don`t get it. If she`s on suicide watch, she has to be feeling remorseful about something. Why a "not guilty" plea? Does that make sense to you?
Meantime, similar scenario; way different and check out this video from the Web site x17online. It supposedly shows cops letting a suspected tipsy celebrity, Dennis Quaid, off the hook. If true, is it another case of a double standard of justice?
More on that in just a moment.
First, back out to my awesome panel. We are adding in Ken Seeley, the famous interventionist.
Ken, help us make sense of this woman who is accused of this. She`s supposedly on suicide watch because she feels so horrible about the fact this child died and the others were injured. But yet, she`s pleading not guilty. How does that work?
KEN SEELEY, INTERVENTIONIST: You know, Jane, I`m with you on this one. I think that she needs to serve some -- serious amount of time for this and be prosecuted. It is just not acceptable.
I`m sure Mothers against Drunk Drivers and yourself and myself, we all feel the same way. These people need to be held accountable. They know what they are doing is wrong. But they continue to do it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Reef Karim, you are the addiction specialist. How is it that a woman feels so bad about what happened -- she was behind the wheel, she was, according to cops, drunk, there was a crash and a child is dead, others are injured -- and yet, she pleads not guilty. If she is on suicide watch, if she feels that bad, why is she pleading not guilty?
REEF KARIM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: This makes no sense whatsoever outside of the fact that she`s not -- she is now sober. When she is drunk she is possessed. Her brain is not working the way it is supposed to work. She has an altered sensorian (ph) is what we call it.
Now she sobered up, she realizes what she did; she realizes the consequences of her actions but she`s not able to go the extra step and admit to herself what she did. I think personally she`s still in denial unless it is her legal team that`s saying this. She`s in denial about what she did.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely.
Now, 11-year-old Kayla`s appearance on Oprah Tuesday was -- it was just a heartbreaker. Listen to what else this brave child had to say about that horrible ride.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLA: One of the girls told me that she was just fooling around, like going side to side and then the last one that when she went go -- stop it, I guess she went to go pull the brake and then that`s when we started flipping over, I guess.
WINFREY: Do you remember the flipping over? No, don`t remember it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So this is just so upsetting to me that this little girl survived and yet, she is going to be traumatized, Stacey. There is survivor`s guilt, there`s the memories that are going to come flooding back as she ages.
What is she in store for as a survivor, do you think?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Listen, we do know that children are a lot more resilient than adults are. But the other fact of the matter is thank God that she is able to recall the events because when this woman is prosecuted, if she chooses not to admit her guilt and forced this to a trial, then you are going to need her to come in and testify as to what was going on; her demeanor and what she was saying, everything that she just said to Oprah.
What she`s going through, certainly she will go into therapy, I`m sure, for you know -- in some respect. But I wanted to get back to what you were say about this woman pleading not guilty. Certainly like you said, it is her legal team. That`s really what it is.
Her feeling of remorse could be there. It is also a feeling of "Oh, my God, I`m going to prison for a long time. I think I want to kill myself." I`m sure it is the lawyer saying, "You are facing a manslaughter charge. You`re not going to plead guilty right off the bat. Let`s wait and see what the best offer is that we can get." That`s how the legal system is working.
And so to say that she`s on suicide watch, why doesn`t -- how do you coordinate that with pleading not guilty, that`s standard for most defendants the first time out of the box. Pleading not guilty doesn`t mean she is not going plead guilty later on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Same subject, different driver. Check out this video posted by x17online. We`re going to show it to you.
According to a photographer -- here it is -- for this Web site, it shows Dennis Quaid getting behind the wheel of his SUV after dinner a few weeks ago. Then according to x-17 a cop who apparently noticed that the actor seemed to be under the influence, seemed to have had too much to drink, pulled up next to him in the parking lot. The cop reportedly told Quaid several times get out of the car.
X-17 says Quaid appeared nervous, asked to go back into the restaurant to call a cab. Guess what happened? The officer said sure, go back in. So Quaid was allowed to go back into the restaurant. He didn`t get any kind of a DUI. We don`t know for sure that he was intoxicated. But it certainly appeared that way to those at the scene.
Is there a double standard? If this hadn`t been a famous celebrity, would this have been treated differently, Steve Rogers?
STEVE ROGERS, DETECTIVE, NUTLEY, NEW JERSEY: Jane, that police officer had a responsibility to do a field sobriety check on this individual if he, in fact, felt that he was intoxicated. Yes, I`m sorry to say, at times there is a double standard. It is wrong.
I will tell you, if I was that officer`s supervisor he would be in my office. He`d have to explain himself.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to talk about how we can stop these obscenities; these drunk driving cases, especially with kids in the car. We`ve had so many of them recently.
This girl, 11-year-old Leandra was killed because she was in a car driven by this woman who cops say was drunk. It sparked a call for Leandra`s Law. It`s proposed legislation that would make it a felony simply to drive drunk with children in the car.
Ken Seeley, do you think that`s too much? Or is that appropriate? A felony simply to be caught driving drunk with children in a car even if you don`t have an accident?
SEELEY: Absolutely it is appropriate. I think we have to do that in order to let people understand how important this is. Every day we turn on the news and we see on your show that people are dying from this and it needs to end. This is a way to...
HONOWITZ: Child abuse. That`s what it is.
SEELEY: Yes. It absolutely is.
(CROSS TALK)
HONOWITZ: You know, in Florida, we have a law -- child abuse is deemed anything that could reasonably expect to cause injury to a child. Certainly if you put a child in a car with someone who`s intoxicated you can reasonably expect that something could happen. So it is not too excessive. That`s exactly the way it should be. It should be a child abuse charge.
ROGERS: All the laws -- but all the laws in the world are fine and this is appropriate. But you know what? We need the cooperation of the courts. The courts need to be more concerned with the victims than the criminals and therein lies our problems in our country -- it`s the courts.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One of the things that Carmen Huertas`s lawyer is doing is sort of -- the spread the blame defense. He is saying well, don`t just blame her. There`s plenty of blame to go around. Some of the parents were at the party and they didn`t stop her from driving off with their kids.
Now the spread the blame defense has outraged especially the parent of the dead girl who had gone to extreme lengths to make sure his daughter was ok before this party. And I guess apparently he just didn`t see that she was getting into a car with this woman. I mean, you can`t -- you can`t blame the other parents. Can you, Stacey Honowitz?
HONOWITZ: Well, you know, legally I think it is difficult. I think morally people might say listen, it is your responsibility to watch your child and if you think that person is under the influence, you shouldn`t let your kid get in. So I think parents do have a responsibility if they are present to watch and see what is going on.
You can`t say I`m not responsible. I didn`t see this person drinking. I mean, do you have a responsibility as a parent.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
HONOWITZ: So I think you can make that argument.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now we also have the case of this so-called wrong-way driver Diane Schuler -- we`ve been talking about this one for weeks now. Cops say she was drunk and high on pot when she slammed her minivan into another minivan. Eight people, including herself, dead.
What is going on here Dr. Reef? There`s more and more cases of drunk driving moms. We have three in the news just in very, very recent weeks.
KARIM: Yes. The reason (AUDIO GAP) not only are there more women now getting DUIs and higher alcohol content in women, binge drinking and excessive drinking, we are seeing more DUIs in moms. So there`s definitely something significant going on. You know, whether it is moms that are also working, whether it is stress or whether it is just the fact that -- I`m so glad you bring this up, you know, on a regular basis on your show -- alcohol has penetrated our psyche, our culture. It is getting worse and it is getting worse.
Hey, maybe it is because we are all stressed out and we are drinking more. But irrespective we have to do something about from the community and legal community.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We really do. A big thank you to our fantastic guests.
From super tennis star meth-head: Andre Agassi reveals his toxic secret. But will his shocking past ruin his image? We are taking your calls -- you won`t believe this story -- 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s meet today`s winner, Pete in New Jersey. Pete served in the navy during Vietnam. He was disabled while fighting a fire aboard a destroyer. His injury led to alcoholism and ultimately he lost everything. Rock bottom came for Pete the day he woke up in a ditch alone homeless and unable to walk.
That was more than four years ago. Guess what. We got great news for you. Pete has not had a drink since. He`s found a new home and he`s now reconnecting with his sons. Way to go. Way to go, Pete. Love that story.
Tomorrow was going to be the last day to e-mail us or send in an iReport about your addiction and how you overcame it. But we have gotten such touching stories, such overwhelming response about 100 a day coming in.
So we are going to continue to feature these stories because we think it is important and to give away more copies of my new book "I Want." And also give away another trip to New York City. You can come here and visit me on set if you win. We`re going to show you a real good time; a sober time.
And you can also order your own copy of "I Want" at cnn.com/Jane. If you have trouble with addiction, check it out.
All right.
Andre Agassi`s toxic secret. What was he hiding? What will it mean for his legendary image? That`s coming up.
First, "Top of the Block" tonight: facing a real monster Phillip Garrido and his wife made their first court appearance in the Jaycee Dugard case today. The two are accused of kidnapping and brutality raping Jaycee, holding her captive for 18 long years.
The hearing only lasted for two minutes. But it wasn`t without drama. One of Garrido`s rape victims showed up to face her attacker for the first time.
Katie Calloway was kidnapped and raped by Garrido 33 years ago but the rapist only spent 11 years in jail for the attack. Now Calloway says she`s determined to make sure this creep goes away forever.
No one from the Dugard family was in court today. But the man who claims to be Jaycee`s biological dad showed up and he had some harsh words for Garrido saying he wants to rip his face off. I can understand that rage.
The next hearing is December 11th. We`re going to be on top of it. And that is tonight`s "Top of the Block."
Shocking revelations: inside superstar athlete Andre Agassi`s secret drug use. I was so shocked by this one.
On the tennis court this guy was unstoppable. But behind closed doors, Andre Agassi says he was using, of all things, crystal meth -- crystal meth.
In his new book, "Open," Andre says his assistant Slim helped him score drugs. He writes, "I snort some, there is a moment of regret, followed by vast sadness. Then comes a tidal wave of euphoria that sweeps away every negative thought in my head. I`ve never felt so alive, so hopeful. I never felt such energy."
Some more juicy details: he hated tennis; his father was violent; and he lied to officials about why he failed a drug test. Agassi told him he accidentally drank a soda spiked with meth and then he blamed it on his assistant.
How did Andre get away with this toxic secret? After the final match of his career, he was on top of the world. Andre`s fans gave him a standing ovation. He made an emotional speech thanking fans for supporting him through his highs and his lows.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDRE AGASSI, TENNIS PLAYER: There are a lot of things I wanted to say, a lot of things. Those were some of the things that came from my belly and I...
LARRY KING, CNN HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Was it hard?
AGASSI: It was really hard. You have no idea. How do you ever prepare for that? You know. You know, people got me through it like they did so many other times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No one guessed that during some of the low points of his life, this guy was snorting meth. It is blowing my mind.
How did he conceal this drug use? How could he perform on drugs? He won numerous grand slams. He was ranked number one. He wed fellow tennis star Steffi Graf.
Straight out to my expert: Richard Deitsch, writer and special projects editor for "Sports Illustrated;" former ESPN anchor, Stephen Smith; addiction specialist Dr. Reef Karim; and interventionist Ken Seeley.
Ken, is it possible that you could be playing tennis at this level and be on crystal meth at the same time? I can`t imagine it.
SEELEY: It seems really difficult but it`s obviously a fact here. And the part that I don`t understand is if he was in an addiction, then he wouldn`t be able to continue to show up. He would end up, you know, he wouldn`t be able to continue the way he was performing if he was in an addiction.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now -- go ahead.
KARIM: Jane, it is interesting to me -- because if you look at what methamphetamine does; and if you are snorting it and it is not a regular user, you are kind of abusing it but you`re not a chronic user, it will increase your attention. It will increase your ability to not fatigue on the tennis court.
But what it is going at the same time is it`s going to alter your dexterity and alter your ability to reason and problem-solve and think things through. So it probably...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You`re raising a very important point. That yes, if he did it a little bit, it could actually enhance his performance possibly.
Richard Deitsch, you`re with "Sports Illustrated." How many times did he admit to using crystal meth? I mean, what -- tell us about this problem?
RICHARD DEITSCH, WRITER, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED: Well, again, I`m not sure I would call it a problem. In the book Andre admits to ...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I would call it a problem.
DEITSCH: Well, I would say -- listen, in the book, Andre admits he did it for a couple of months. He had a very bad summer in 1997. And sort of just to counter what the two addiction experts said, his performance at the time in tennis was miserable. He was at the lowest ebb of his career.
Eventually, 1998, 1999, that`s when the turnaround came. So when Agassi was sort of part of this, in this sort of misery that`s when he was playing his worst tennis. He was not the number one player in the world at all.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, everyone stay right where you are. We`re going to have more on this shocker.
Agassi on crystal meth? It`s a mind-blower to me.
We`ll have more coming up right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AGASSI: All the pressure that I kind of felt on my shoulders and the desire and the -- what it meant to win the French Open this year. Being down two sets to love in the finals and finding a way, to me will be something I call on the rest of my life when I wonder if I can really do anything, do something. I`m going to call back on that match right there and say, yes, if you just -- if just try hard enough, good things happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was tennis superstar Andre Agassi talking about his greatest win.
Tonight, a brand new shocking revelations: Andre says during a career low he turned to crystal meth.
Back out to my expert panel: Stephen Smith, tell us about 1997 he had a bum wrist. He became sort of down about his slump and he turned to crystal meth and then came the test. Tell us about that.
STEPHEN A. SMITH, FORMER ESPN ANCHOR: Well, the bottom line is this. He was ranked number 141 in the world at the time. He was known for his image just as much as his play on the tennis court, his hairdo, his outfits, the women, his marriage ultimately to Brooke Shields, et cetera.
So he was known for all of that stuff just as much as he was for his tennis, but he had dropped off the map. A lot of people were wondering why and how miraculous this comeback was because you have to remember within a two-year period, he went from number 141 in the world to number one in the world.
And Agassi is some...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But wasn`t there a test at one point where the ATC...
SMITH: Well, he took a test...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... the tennis association said, "Hey, dude, you failed a drug test?"
SMITH: Well, he took a test and he blamed it on a spiked drink from his friend, nicknamed Slim, and they bought it and let him off the hook, which is highly suspect. And that`s why you have these anti-doping agencies even right now asking questions as to how that happened.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s outrageous. Ok.
Andre isn`t the first athlete to have a problem with substance abuse. I`m not talking about steroid. I`m talking about -- well, let`s take a look, infamous golfer John Daly (ph), an admitted alcoholic who started drinking at age eight.
He won big but he got arrested for alcohol-related escapades, one time he passed out in a flower bed outside Hooters. Way to go, John.
There`s baseball legend Darryl Strawberry who`s 17 year career was marred by suspensions multiple times, arrested for coke, went on to rehab after binges.
How do these people who are such amazing performers have a drug problem and perform -- I mean, I just don`t understand it. Andre Agassi is so squeaky clean, you`d have to be tweaking a little bit if you were on meth, even when you were just out there, out and about.
KARIM: Yes, but, Jane, the small amounts of meth, if he was just doing it sporadically, they`re not performance-enhancing. First off, it will increase his physical activity, increase his attention, give him a little euphoria.
But the dexterity, the manual dexterity, the reaction time of looking at that tennis ball will absolutely be impaired. So if he was not fully abusing, if he wasn`t substance dependent and was just dabbling here and there, he might be able to get away with it.
But what this tells me is all of these athletes that you`ve mentioned, they`re people. And they`re dealing with the stress and everything else that`s going on. And they were led astray and they were taken over by the disease of addiction in some capacity, even if it was just minimal as an escape method.
And it just shows that it hits everybody. It can hit the best sports figure as well as the homeless guy next door to you.
SMITH: Well, let`s call it like it is. Those professional athletes, those stars are an aberration. Usually they are very, very young and they`re very, very rich, because a lot of money is thrown in their direction. With that money, with those riches come women, come drugs, alcohol, people that are trying to exploit them, all sorts of temptations.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well put.
SMITH: And they usually start at a very young age sort of kind of people...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we got to leave it right there.
You are watching ISSUES on Headline News.
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