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Joy Behar Page
Catholic Controversy over "Curb Your Enthusiasm"; Wanda Sykes Speaks; Wanda Sykes for a New Show; Michael Jackson`s Movie Premiering
Aired October 29, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HLN ANCHOR: Tonight, many Catholics are furious with Larry David because of a joke he made on his show "Curb your Enthusiasm" involving Jesus. Did the joke go too far or are the devout just devoid of humor?
Then, Michael Jackson may be gone from the world, but he is very much alive at the box office. His new movie opened yesterday. And we`re going to find out what`s what with "This is It."
Plus, Wanda Sykes is on stage, on screen, on television and tonight she`s on my show. Is she on a roll or she on speed? She`ll be here joining me in the studio.
All this and more starts now.
Now, some people call this clip from Larry David`s HBO series, comedy and others, blasphemy. But you be the judge. Here`s the scene from "Curb your Enthusiasm" on Sunday, God`s day off, that started the controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SCENE FROM HBO SERIES, "CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Some people say why is there a picture of Jesus in the bathroom?
Joining me to discuss this and more are: Andy Borowitz of "The Borowitz Report;" Michelle Collins, comedian and managing editor of BestWeekEver.tv; and Lorrie Morgan, country music star extraordinaire.
Now we just saw that and it is, is he -- first of all, I find it offensive to watch people urinate, just that part annoys me.
But I know Larry. He is hilarious and he takes a lot of chances on that show. So what he did was the urine accidentally goes on the picture of Jesus and other people come in and religious people think that the portrait is crying. You know, these types of people who think that the face of Jesus appears on a Tamale and then they get all excited. But it`s that same group of people that he`s making fun of.
Now, Lorrie, I know that you are a devout Catholic.
LORRIE MORGAN, COUNTRY MUSIC SINGER: Very much.
BEHAR: Yes, does that offend you?
MORGAN: Yes actually.
BEHAR: It does.
MORGAN: It does and I -- I guess because I was raised to be reverent to Jesus and to the church and that was my upbringing and that`s how I feel. I mean and I just feel like it would have been funnier had he had his mother hanging there or something.
BEHAR: Oh, yes. As a matter of fact, before I go on with you two, the President of the Catholic League issued a statement Monday saying, "Last night`s episode demonstrates that David`s best years are behind him. He ought to quit while he`s ahead. Would he think it comedic if someone urinated on a picture of his mother?"
MORGAN: Oh, really?
ANDY BOROWITZ, "THE BOROWITZ REPORT": He would.
BEHAR: HBO -- he would think it`s hilarious.
BOROWITZ: He would yes, I know.
BEHAR: That`s one of the things that Donahue, whatever his name is, he doesn`t get. He would just think that`s the funniest thing.
BOROWITZ: That`s going to be an episode for "Sweeps" I think for Larry; peeing on his mother`s picture.
MICHELLE COLLINS, MANAGING EDITOR, BESTWEEKEVER.TV: Or his mother peeing on him. I mean, Larry -- every show Larry does something to offend someone. So I`m glad finally the Catholics are feeling a little bit...
BEHAR: They got picked on.
COLLINS: Yes, finally, it`s about time.
BOROWITZ: I was a little bit offended as a urinator, I`ve got to say.
BEHAR: I can see that.
BOROWITZ: That is my group...
BEHAR: Because didn`t like...
BOROWITZ: That is my group...
BEHAR: Yes.
BOROWITZ: ... people with the heavy flow. I was a little bit offended.
BEHAR: But he says, this guy, Donahue, he says that HBO only makes fun of Catholics. So, what about this scene from "Curb" when a holocaust survivor argues with a contestant from the show "Survivor?" Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you even seen the show?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever see our show? It was called the Holocaust.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, all I know is I was damn close to that $1 million. All right in the whole time everyone`s back stabbing me and undermining me and trying to get me kicked off the show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t know nothing about survival, I`m a survivor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m a survivor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m a survivor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m a survivor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He also took on the Muslims in another episode.
BOROWITZ: Right.
BEHAR: So he really is a religious basher on all counts.
BOROWITZ: Absolutely, Buddhists are next.
BEHAR: Maybe Buddhists. Yes, they`re pretty funny, Buddhists.
COLLINS: I don`t know. I`m Jewish. I laugh -- my grandparents are holocaust survivors. And you know we as Jews have bigger things to worry about like our people not getting re-murdered in Europe.
BOROWITZ: Right.
BEHAR: Yes.
COLLINS: We have bigger fish to fry than our -- the ideology whatever coming...
MORGAN: I don`t know, to me there`s just still something that is so -- and I -- I understand your point totally, but to me, it`s just, I guess it`s my upbringing. It`s just my opinion. I would never, ever think of doing something like that to a picture of Jesus. I just...
BEHAR: Because it offends the Catholic sensibility.
MORGAN: Yes, it does. I`m with my mom...
BEHAR: Yes.
MORGAN: ... who is 78 years old. Totally -- I mean, she could be the Pope, you know, if she wanted to be.
BEHAR: Yes.
MORGAN: And that`s how strict she is.
BEHAR: Right.
BOROWITZ: I don`t think technically she could be the Pope.
COLLINS: I agree.
BOROWITZ: I mean, I`m not familiar with all the rules, but I think there are some problems...
MORGAN: She could be in our family.
BOROWITZ: Ok.
MORGAN: And I mean and her sisters are the same way. So...
COLLINS: Is it common to have Jesus in the bathroom?
MORGAN: No.
COLLINS: This is my question, like...
MORGAN: No.
COLLINS: ... I would feel more uncomfortable having a hot dude in a beard watch me pee than actually getting any of my waste on him. But he`s a handsome guy, Joy.
BEHAR: Jesus?
COLLINS: A very good looking guy. Yes.
BEHAR: Well, in that rendition -- we don`t really know what he looked like. I mean they make up the way he looks. Nobody knows what he looks like really.
COLLINS: I would be heartbroken if...
MORGAN: If I found that out I would probably be heartbroken too.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean.
MORGAN: No hunchback.
COLLINS: No hunchback Jesus not for me.
BEHAR: Yes, William Dafoe, he looks like William Dafoe as far as I know.
COLLINS: I could never worship a man who looked like that.
BEHAR: Ok, now speaking of leaking, Levi Johnston continues to leak dirt about Sarah Palin in their ongoing feud. Did you know that?
COLLINS: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: Ok, on "The Early Show" today he was -- he was asked about reconciling with the Palins. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it too late to turn back now? Is it too late to save that relationship? Reconcile with the Palins?
LEVI JOHNSTON, FATHER OF SARAH PALIN`S GRANDSON: I don`t see myself over there for Christmas or whatnot, so I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Oh my God.
BEHAR: Michelle, do we really want this to end? Andy, it`s such a great thing.
COLLINS: I never want it to end. First of all, I`m so happy he`s posing nude. I actually -- I`ve been doing a little dance of joy in my office all they long.
BEHAR: Yes.
COLLINS: I can`t wait for the picture, the tasteful laying on the antler shot; whatever they`re going to go for. I don`t know, but it`s going to be tasteful.
BEHAR: Do you know he`s going to be dropping his Levi`s and showing us his Johnston?
MORGAN: I do, I do.
BEHAR: Did you know that?
MORGAN: And I think whatever floats your boat. Whatever floats his stuff, I mean, its fine with me. I don`t really care what he does. I`m just -- I just don`t want him bashing this family all the time.
BEHAR: Yes.
BOROWITZ: Levi and Sarah Palin have become the Republican version of Jon & Kate. They`re like this distraught couple that doesn`t get along. Because where, I mean, we haven`t heard from Bristol in months. Todd, I...
BEHAR: She`s laying low, Bristol. She`s smart to do that.
BOROWITZ: Todd we`ve never heard from.
BEHAR: Now, what`s Todd doing? You know the Palins don`t you, Lorrie?
MORGAN: I don`t know them personally. I do not. I`m a Sarah Palin fan.
BEHAR: You are a fan?
MORGAN: Yes, I am.
BOROWITZ: Are you looking forward to her book?
MORGAN: Well...
BOROWITZ: I`m getting the English translation.
MORGAN: Are you?
BOROWITZ: I`m waiting for that.
BEHAR: Ok, here`s what Levi said on "The Early Show" about his claim that Palin called her son, Trig, retarded. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSTON: She was like, "Where`s my retarded baby," and all this? It just wasn`t right. I have no proof to show you it`s true, but I know it is. I was just in shock for the first time I heard it. She would say it regularly. And I was just like, you know -- I think she was joking but still, you know, it doesn`t make it right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Hey, do you think she really said that?
COLLINS: For sure. I`m sorry, oh for sure, why would he make something like that up?
BEHAR: Because he`s an idiot.
COLLINS: He`s an idiot. That`s why he wouldn`t make it up. So that`s my defense but he`s too stupid to make something like that up.
BOROWITZ: I can see Levi being offended by the retarded remark. But I do think that it probably didn`t happen. Because think about it, guys. Neither Levi nor Sarah Palin has even been in Alaska for the last 12 months. She`s been out promoting the book...
BEHAR: Therefore?
BOROWITZ: This couldn`t have happened. They`ve never been in proximity to that child, either of them.
BEHAR: Well, that`s not true. They were at the convention together.
BOROWITZ: Oh really, ok. That`s a brief photo op.
BEHAR: Yes, remember when she passed the baby around more...
(CROSS TALK)
MORGAN: I`m sorry. I just don`t think she said that. I just really don`t.
COLLINS: I really think she has a whole other side of her that we even don`t see.
BEHAR: Here`s Palin`s response.
COLLINS: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok, she said, "Consider the source" -- I remember when I was a kid, they`d go -- "Consider the source, of the most recent attention-getting lies. Those who would sell their body for money reflect a desperate need for attention and are likely to say and do anything for even more attention," meaning the full frontal in "Playgirl."
BOROWITZ: Right.
COLLINS: Yes.
BEHAR: Which by the way, does he know that mostly gay guys read that book?
COLLINS: For sure, hello, that`s where the money is. That`s where the money is, gay porn. He`s not stupid...
BOROWITZ: I just like when Levi is on these shows like "The Today Show." They treat him like a serious political pundit. Like the story of Jeff Will (ph) or something like that.
BEHAR: Yes.
BOROWITZ: Why does he have that credibility I don`t understand?
MORGAN: I don`t understand it either. I really don`t.
BEHAR: By the way, his "Playgirl" shoot is on the same day that Oprah is interviewing Sarah Palin.
MORGAN: Yes.
BEHAR: Coincidence, you tell me.
BOROWITZ: Right.
BEHAR: Thanks, everybody, very much...
COLLINS: Thank you.
MORGAN: Thank you.
BEHAR: ... for joining me. Up next, one of the rare women of late night, Wanda Sykes, joins me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANDA SYKES, COMEDIAN: People asking why I`m doing late night TV. Well, whenever we ask our friends to come over, you know, they want to know. Are the babies going to be there? Of course the babies are going to be there. They`re like, oh, we can`t make it. I have to go give blood.
So clearly I had no choice but to find another place to hang out. This is my home away from home, but just don`t tell my wife about it because right now she thinks I`m out in the garage putting together a highchair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`ve known this woman for a long time. Her HBO specials prove she`s one of the funniest and edgiest women working in comedy today. Not just women, anybody.
Her new late night talk show premieres on November 7th and I love the title "The Wanda Sykes Show." It has a ring. I always wanted a show named after me, too. Oh, I do have one. Sorry. Wanda, hi.
SYKES: Hi Joy.
BEHAR: How are you?
SYKES: Good to be here.
BEHAR: Listen. You`ve got so many things going on, girlfriend. You`ve got the HBO special, you`re on the Christina -- what is it again?
SYKES: "The New Invincible Christine."
(CROSS TALK)
SYKES: Glad you`re a loyal fan.
BEHAR: It`s a rather laborious title but a funny show. And now you have a talk show at night competing with all the boys late at night.
SYKES: Well, I`m on Saturday night.
BEHAR: Oh, you`re on Saturday.
SYKES: The boys take the night off.
BEHAR: Chelsea has one too?
SYKES: Right. Yes.
BEHAR: "Chelsea Lately", that show. She`s on every night.
SYKES: I think she`s on every night.
BEHAR: So you`re only on, on Saturday night.
SYKES: Just Saturday night.
BEHAR: So that`s how you can do all this work.
SYKES: Yes. With a black president now I don`t have to work as hard.
BEHAR: That`s true. Ok.
SYKES: I just do -- they wanted me to work seven nights. I was like, no, race card, black president.
BEHAR: Pass the race card.
SYKES: You know we get two race cards a year now with a black president. Sweet.
BEHAR: That`s great. So the last person to -- a woman to have a talk show, late night, was Joan Rivers. That was 25 years ago.
SYKES: Wow.
BEHAR: You know, I mean, that was -- Dick Cheney was still on his first pacemaker. Nothing for that -- ok, fine.
SYKES: I`m with you. I`m with you.
BEHAR: It`s fine. No, they`re brain dead. It`s fine. It`s ok.
Rumor has it that you wanted a black head writer for your show.
SYKES: A black head writer?
BEHAR: A black head writer.
SYKES: Ok.
BEHAR: Not a blackhead writer. How many jokes can you do on one blackhead?
SYKES: You can`t. There`s not a lot there.
BEHAR: Why is it important for you to have a black head writer?
SYKES: I didn`t specify that I wanted a black, you know, head writer. I said I wanted a funny writer; a guy who was good. It wasn`t -- I didn`t put that out. That wasn`t in the...
BEHAR: It was just a rumor, not true.
SYKES: Not true. Not true. I said I wanted a head writer with a large penis.
BEHAR: Oh. Ok.
SYKES: You can -- you know. However you want to go with that one.
BEHAR: I guess they interpreted it that way.
SYKES: And thick lips. That`s all I said. Large penis and thick lips, that`s what I said; that`s all I wanted.
BEHAR: And a good dancer.
SYKES: And great dancer, yes.
BEHAR: So they can come to any conclusion they want.
SYKES: Yes. I didn`t say nothing about black.
BEHAR: I see.
Everyone`s talking about the Letterman show and the staff quoted, all the staff quotes on all the shows. I found out last night here that there are 50 writers on all three shows and they`re all male.
SYKES: Really?
BEHAR: All male. 50 male writers. Is that shocking to you?
SYKES: Very shocking. I have female writers, male writers, you know, black, white, it`s a mix. Yes.
BEHAR: You were a female -- a writer...
SYKES: I still am.
BEHAR: You`re still a female show-woman.
SYKES: Yes. Still there.
BEHAR: And you were working with Chris Rock.
SYKES: Worked with Chris Rock, right. I was the only female on that staff.
BEHAR: Did anyone sexually harass you over there?
SYKES: I wasn`t that hot back then.
BEHAR: That was before you were a lesbian.
SYKES: Before I became a hot lesbian.
BEHAR: Now that you`re a lesbian, they`ll be all over you.
SYKES: Now I`m a hot lesbian. They would be all over me. Back then, yes -- no, no one hit on me. I mean, come on. You know, I mean, we`re filthy. Comics are filthy. We talk, stuff that we say is -- it`s not appropriate outside of the comedy room. It`s not.
But, yes, but the guys over there, they were cool.
BEHAR: They were cool with it.
SYKES: Yes.
BEHAR: There`s some kind of scuttlebutt about how the guys in the comedy room, they don`t feel comfortable in front of the girls with their, you know, with their flatulence material. The girls probably go, that`s not funny, and they don`t like that.
SYKES: Well, yes. I guess. Or, you know, they -- guys are -- I`m not going to even say intimidated, but it`s, to me it`s like they don`t hear women in the writers` room. When you`re there, you pick something and ...
BEHAR: You`re invisible.
SYKES: You`re invisible. It`s like they don`t ever hear. Another guy will pitch exactly what I just said and they think it`s the funniest thing in the world.
BEHAR: Why is that?
SYKES: And I`m like, didn`t I just say that? You know, I just said -- I think guys, like, when they`re at work they tune off their ears to listen to a female`s voice. You know? It`s like, ok, I`m at work. No need to hear that.
Then when they go back home they turn it up a little bit and, ok, all right, ok, I can barely hear her. I hear her voice and that`s it.
BEHAR: I`m going to change the subject if you don`t mind.
SYKES: We want to roll with that. It`s your show.
BEHAR: We`re moving along here because I want to talk about the fact you came out as a -- you came out of the closet. I don`t know if you were in the closet.
SYKES: I really wasn`t in the closet.
BEHAR: I knew you when you were married when you were Wanda Sykes-Hall and the next thing I knew you were gay and you were just Wanda Sykes. I never saw that coming.
SYKES: You didn`t saw that coming? You don`t remember after we were making out, you didn`t see that coming?
BEHAR: Does that make you gay when you make out -- for goodness sakes. You came out at a same-sex marriage rally in Las Vegas in 2008.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SYKES: I`m very proud. I`m proud to be a woman. I`m proud to be a black woman. I`m proud to be gay. And I love you all. Now, let`s go get our equal rights. Come on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYKES: I`m not proud of that hair color.
BEHAR: This is cute. This color`s cute. When did you realize that you were gay? How did it happen? Tell me.
SYKES: How did it happen?
BEHAR: Was it a slow...
SYKES: I think - you know, it was the way I was born and I think earlier on, like when I was in maybe second or third grade I knew.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
SYKES: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: You were attracted to the girls?
SYKES: I remember telling one of my brother`s girlfriends or something, I was like, I wish I were a boy or whatever, so then you could be my girlfriend. Yes. She was like, oh, no, no. You can`t say that. You know? You can`t think like that.
So, you know, so you just go ok, that was a bad move. You just suppress everything and just get in line. Ok, this is the way things are supposed to be.
BEHAR: You got in line for a long time.
SYKES: Yes.
BEHAR: You got in line and then you just -- there must have been a trigger though. Where were you when it came to you? Were you at a bowling alley?
Where were you?
SYKES: Bowling alley, softball game, come on.
BEHAR: Where were you? Come on, tell me.
SYKES: I don`t even remember. I think it just happens. You know? It`s - - you know, you have the attraction there I guess.
BEHAR: You`re not the first person. It happened to a couple of other...
SYKES: I`m not the only gay person? Get out of here.
BEHAR: No, women comedians. Women comedians who thought that they were straight and turned out not to be.
SYKES: Yes.
BEHAR: And they`re so much happier now that they were all out of the closet.
SYKES: So much happier. Yes.
BEHAR: I want to talk more about this and some other stuff when we come back with Wanda Sykes, not Wanda Sykes Hall.
Where`s your husband now?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SYKES: First black president. But I have to tell you, it`s little bittersweet. It is. First black president and the country is broke. What the (BLEEP)?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SYKES: I`m earning $15,000 a month in child support, and I don`t even have a child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. That was my guest, Wanda Sykes, on "The Chris Rock Show." That was a big break for you? Wasn`t it?
SYKES: Yes, that was a big break. That was my first real TV gig as a writer. It got me in the writers` guild. That`s the best ground where I learned everything. How to edit, produce.
BEHAR: Really?
SYKES: Yes, because it`s such a writer-driven show. Chris would let us stay with the piece. Write it, then you go out and shoot it, edit, produce. And everything I learned from that show is why I can do my own show now.
I give Chris all the credit. No check, just credit.
BEHAR: Ok. Let me talk about your marriage a little bit. You got married?
SYKES: Yes.
BEHAR: You`re not -- your marriage is not a civil union.
SYKES: It`s a marriage.
We got married before Prop 8.
BEHAR: What`s your wife`s -- you call her your wife, right?
SYKES: Alex.
BEHAR: That was before Prop 8?
SYKES: Yes.
BEHAR: So are you still married in California?
SYKES: We`re still married in California.
BEHAR: There`s a grandfather clause for people who got married before?
SYKES: The marriages that happened before Prop 8 passed are still valid. Yes. So we`re still married.
BEHAR: That must have been a disappointing night, election night for you because Prop 8 passed but, of course, Obama won so it was a mixed bag.
SYKES: Yes. Yes. It was very -- like a roller coaster ride. At first, like, Obama won, yes. Then it`s like, we saw the numbers coming in and saw that Prop 8 was going to pass. So I couldn`t even really fully enjoy my black president win.
BEHAR: Yes.
SYKES: You know? Because now it`s like, gee, ok, black president but now I`m a second-class citizen.
BEHAR: Are you disappointed with the fact he`s really sort dragging his heels on gay marriage a little bit?
SYKES: You know, would I like for him to step it up? Yes. I`m being patient, you know, because when he took over, this country was in the dumper.
BEHAR: I know it.
SYKES: People -- there are like Bush deniers out there, like, it never happened. It happened. We were in, I mean, dire straits: the economy, everything.
So I want him to take care of these problems first. These are things that he should be focused on. The war; I mean, you know Afghanistan, Iraq. These are the things that...
BEHAR: Health care, the economy.
SYKES: These are the things that he needs to put on the, you know, on the forefront. I believe eventually he`ll get to gay rights.
You know, do we want to be standing in the back of the line waiting for it? No, but as long as we`re in the line, as long as we`re -- you know? He`s getting to it.
BEHAR: The patience that the left is exhibiting is phenomenal for him because the right is really on his case and pushing him and he`s not doing it and he`s a do-nothing president and they just carry-on like that. The left, like us, people like us, are giving him time. More time because we know.
SYKES: Yes because we know how awful, you know, the place that we were in when he took office. And to criticize him, that`s like somebody giving you life-saving CPR then you go, your breath stinks. You know?
BEHAR: Exactly. I mean, Dick Cheney had the nerve to say he was dithering on Afghanistan.
SYKES: Dithering.
BEHAR: When they rushed into Iraq and there were no WMD there and they started a war that will not end. He says he`s dithering; the nerve, the hypocrisy. It boggles the mind.
Stay there. We`ll be back in a bit. We`re not done with you yet. Don`t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANDA SYKES: Rush Limbaugh said he hopes this administration fails. You know, so you`re saying I hope America fails? You`re like, I don`t care about people losing their homes or jobs or our soldiers in Iraq? He just wants the country to fail. To me, that`s treason. He`s not saying anything differently than what Osama bin Laden is saying. You know, you might want to look into this. I think Rush Limbaugh was the 20th hijacker but he was so strung out on oxycontin he missed his flight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with the very funny woman. Her new late night talk show premieres on November 7th. That was from the Washington correspondence dinner. You caused a lot of controversy at that dinner. Everyone who does it causes controversy and gets criticized for it. It`s a thankless job. Why did you say yes?
SYKES: Right. Right. Come on, it`s the first black president.
BEHAR: You got to do it.
SYKES: You got to do it. I had to do it. It`s just an honor to be invited, you know? So -- I said -- I made a decision. You know what, you asked for it. So you are going to get it. I`m not going to hold back. I`m not going to hold back. You know? I`m going to show up and be me.
BEHAR: Was Limbaugh mad?
SYKES: I have no idea. I don`t know. Who cares? It was so funny because I was so wrapped up, you know, into doing it, focusing. I was sitting at the table. The first lady is there. I`m going through my notes and going through my cards. Okay, I got it, I got it. She leaned over to say something to me and I -- she leaned over and said something. I literally looked at her and went -- and went back to my cards. That`s how focused I was. I brushed off the first lady, like, I`m working, woman.
BEHAR: I know but she was interrupting you.
SYKES: Yes she was interrupting me. Hey, hey.
BEHAR: Busy. Working over here.
SYKES: People ask me, what was that experience like? I don`t even remember.
BEHAR: Let me go back a minute to your family. I`m very interested. You have twins now.
SYKES: Yes.
BEHAR: And what`s your girlfriend`s name again?
SYKES: Alex.
BEHAR: Alex. I keep thinking Kelly. I`m thinking of another couple I know.
SYKES: Yeah. Okay.
BEHAR: So Alex gave birth to the babies, right? Sorry. And so -- has your family seen the babies? How are they dealing with all of this? It`s an interracial gay marriage.
SYKES: Right.
BEHAR: A lot to digest.
SYKES: So we should stay out of Louisiana is what you`re saying.
BEHAR: Stay out of Mississippi. I would say, Alabama.
SYKES: We should just take a ride through the south and just film it. We should. Just see how many states we can get through? You know, here`s the Mississippi border.
BEHAR: I mean, has anyone in your family come to see the kids? Are they accepting of it? Do you care?
SYKES: My brother and his wife, my nephews, they`ve seen the kids. It`s just like an issue as far as with distance I guess. But my parents do plan on seeing the kids.
BEHAR: Oh they know so everything is copacetic at home with this?
SYKES: Oh you`re not going to say that but it`s getting there.
BEHAR: When does your new show start?
SYKES: November 7th.
BEHAR: Do you feel nervous about it?
SYKES: A little. But usually everything just comes together. You know? I work hard at it. Keith Robinson, a very funny comic, we`ve been friends for 20 years. It`s great I get to hang out with Keith and just every week just rip him apart.
BEHAR: I just want you to be successful at this, because it`s been so many years and there`s never a woman in late night, particularly on the big three networks. We have Chelsey late night and now you. You know those real money-makers.
SYKES: Well Monique is on BET.
BEHAR: Monique. Did you see Precious?
SYKES: Not yet. I want to see her.
BEHAR: She -- I hope she comes on this show. I just want to tell her what a brilliant performance she gave in that movie. Oh my god. The levels -- the levels -- she`s a comedian. Who knew she was such an -- it was like Meryl Streep level -- really very interesting stuff. So what do you think about how the country`s going now? Do you feel positive about it?
SYKES: I feel -- I feel positive. And I just hope we don`t lose focus because when you see how we all jump behind balloon boy, that`s scary.
BEHAR: I know.
SYKES: That`s scary. That balloon boy --
BEHAR: Did you think he was in that thing? You didn`t think --I said, he can`t be in that thing.
SYKES: Hell no, no. I knew he wasn`t in there. Look at the father; he looks like a big dummy. What makes you think this idiot could build a space ship that could carry a child? It looks like a big bag of jiffy pop. What the hell?
BEHAR: Right, exactly what it looks like.
SYKES: Everybody wanted -- they loved the drama of it. Everybody was disappointed when they found out the little boy was okay.
BEHAR: Well no, they weren`t disappointed.
SYKES: Joy, they weren`t disappointed. They wanted that boy to be found in the woods somewhere, right, being protected by a bear or something. They wanted a bear to come out of the woods.
BEHAR: Have you seen the new Michael Jackson movie?
SYKES: No, I have not. I plan -- that`s another thing on my list. Because you know I have a lot of free time, now, Joy, with a show and kids and everything.
BEHAR: I haven`t been able to see it.
SYKES: Why are you asking me like I have free time, like a life or something?
BEHAR: I`m sorry. I thought maybe you saw it. Because you know now that he`s dead he`s making a lot of money.
SYKES: He is making a lot of money.
BEHAR: A lot. Is it the third or the fourth -- the third wealthiest dead celebrity?
SYKES: The third?
BEHAR: The third wealthiest.
SYKES: Elvis and who?
BEHAR: Elvis is fourth.
SYKES: What other two?
BEHAR: Yves saint Laurent, the designer. Composer Roger and Sammer Stein, one and two. Then Michael Jackson, then Elvis. Isn`t that something? It`s fascinating to me.
SYKES: I was going to say something very inappropriate.
BEHAR: Go ahead, say it.
SYKES: No.
BEHAR: We can cut it out. We can cut it out. We have a seven- second delay. Come on, say it. Say it. Do you want to say the "f" word? Want to say the "f" word?
SYKES: No, it`s fine.
BEHAR: Say it, come on, Wanda.
SYKES: Not going to get it out of me.
BEHAR: What`s the most tasteless joke you`ve ever told?
SYKES: What I was about to say.
BEHAR: Go ahead say it. I`m telling you, we have ways here to cut things out. Go ahead
SYKES: You get it and then you air it. What this [ bleep ] said.
BEHAR: No, we wouldn`t. I promise you.
SYKES: I`ll tell you later. Want me to write it down for you? OK.
BEHAR: Now, what`s the thing you love the most? Is it standup, is it the TV show? Is it acting? You do everything.
SYKES: It`s all of it. I love all of it..
BEHAR: You love all of it?
SYKES: I love all of it. I think I would probably get bored if I was doing one. But standup is the -- that`s the key. That`s the thing right there. That`s where it all starts.
BEHAR: What`s the most stressful?
SYKES: Most stressful?
BEHAR: Why is it? Tell people why it`s the most stressful. Because I`m tired of saying it because I know it is. I know it is. Why do you think it is?
SYKES: Because it`s just you. And you know, you, it`s the audience, it`s never the same. You don`t know what kind of audience you`re going to get. You don`t know what the building -- you know, the venue is like. It`s just, you`re alone. You`re alone. There`s no edit -- okay, I`ll cut that out. You know?
BEHAR: Well everybody`s wearing clothes and you`re naked. That`s how it feels. Everybody`s looking at you and you have no clothes on and they`re sitting there in tuxedos.
SYKES: You`re alone, right.
BEHAR: And make me laugh.
SYKES: Exactly.
BEHAR: Do you think it`s harder for women?
SYKES: I think it`s -- you well, I don`t know about harder for women. You do have to get past this first. Stop looking at my boobs. Can you hear me? Let`s have fun. Let`s have some jokes.
BEHAR: Do you think it`s easier for lesbians?
SYKES: Easier for lesbians?
BEHAR: Yeah.
SYKES: Hot lesbians or --
BEHAR: Not hot lesbians, just lesbians. Just plain old lesbians. If the men, they know you`re a lesbian --
SYKES: All they`re doing is fantasizing about, I bet I could turn her.
BEHAR: Exactly.
SYKES: Or picture me with, you know, fantasize about joining in. Actually it`s harder for me, Joy.
BEHAR: Is it harder for you?
SYKES: It`s harder.
BEHAR: Is it harder for you? Well anyway, good luck with everything. You`re doing great. You`re on a roll. Great to have you here. The show is called "the Wanda Sykes Show." Producers are so clever aren`t they? It premieres on FOX on November 7th. I`ll be right back with Gayle King.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Joining me to talk about the movie, the man, the money, our Frank Delow, Michael Jackson`s former manager. And Gayle King, editor at large at "O." the Oprah magazine and host of "the Gayle King Show" on series XM. OK Gayle let me start with you; it seems like it`s a fabulous film, and do you think its Oscar worthy? They`re talking about, you know, nominating it as best documentary.
GAYLE KINNG, EDITOR, AND HOST: Sure. I actually do think its Oscar worthy. And what`s so funny to me is my own reaction to it. You know I was always a fan of Michael Jackson`s music, but I can`t say I was still into Michael Jackson the way I used to be. But after he died and hearing all of his music, it brought it back about why I liked him. So when I went to go see this movie, I can honestly say to you I was blown away and not expecting to be. I was blown away because you see his passion for what he does, his humility, his kindness to people was really something to see.
BEHAR: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Frank, did you see the film?
FRANK DELOW, FORMER MANAGER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Oh, yes, I`ve seen it, many stages. Of course, I`ve seen the finished product many times. And Gayle is right. It shows the warmth of Michael. It shows his work ethic. It shows how passionate he was about this show and how perfect he wanted it to be.
KING: Joy, he was a perfectionist in every sense of the word.
BEHAR: The music is great. I mean, when you just want to move.
KING: The music -- I`m telling you, Joy, it brings it all back to you. What bothers me when I hear people criticizing the movie because this was not a movie that was supposed to be for public consumption. This was for his own personal library. We were never supposed to see this. When people say, they had to use subtitles, well, he wasn`t talking to us. There wasn`t a microphone. You know they`re just sort of --
BEHAR: Do you think he would be upset if he knew everyone was watching this movie?
DELOW: No. May I bud in for a second?
BEHAR AND KING: Please bud in.
DELOW: What this is, this is the documentary part of all of his tours. My history with Michael, we always filmed rehearsals backstage. Crowds. And that`s all we were doing. Unfortunately when he passed away, as we were sitting there talking amongst ourselves remembering the great times, we threw on some film and we were just looking at it and somebody said, you know, this would have been such a great show, but the fans should see what he was really about. That`s how this came to pass.
BEHAR: Well you know, let me ask you something. Did he seem healthy, Frank? Because protesters were saying he was unhealthy and AEG was us using him to make a profit.
DELOW: No. That`s an absolute lie.
BEHAR: It`s a lie?
DELOW: Michael was healthy.
BEHAR: Then why all the drugs and the doctor 24/7? What was that about?
DELOW: Well, I`ll explain it to you. He was 136 pounds. Now, for some reason, Michael wanted a doctor to go on tour. I wasn`t aware of this doctor. We met him one time, all right?
BEHAR: Yeah.
DELOW: I don`t know why he wanted that. The man was 50 years old. He made decisions without me. I was in charge of the tour, not his personal, personal, personal life.
BEHAR: So you didn`t really know what was going on?
DELOW: No. No. If I would have known, do you think I would have let it happen?
KING: I can`t say, Joy, he looked unhealthy in the movie that we saw. You know, it`s my understanding, Frank, they recorded 100 hours. We only saw two. He was very, very thin. I have no way of knowing -- I don`t think anybody really knows whether he was healthy or not.
BEHAR: Well Joe Jackson, his father, his father claimed that body doubles were used.
KING: I didn`t believe that. I think Joe Jackson said a lot of things that are skeptical to those of us who have seen the movie. I didn`t see indication of a body double.
BEHAR: What do you think of that, Frank?
DELOW: There are no body doubles. There are no body doubles. Stunt -- was there a stuntman? Any manager or any studio would not let somebody in a blue screen slide down the banister of jump through a window.
BEHAR: Do you think Joe is mad because he`s not making money on this film?
DELOW: You`ll have to make that decision on your own.
BEHAR: What do you think, Frank? Come on?
DELOW: No, no, no.
BEHAR: Frank, what do you think?
KING: Come on, Frank. you know Joe Jackson. I don`t.
BEHAR: No, but I`ve seen him on television and don`t believe a word he says, frankly. There`s a lot of money we`re talking about. Michael Jackson -- I saw it on a crawl yesterday, that he`s the third richest dead celebrity in the word. Yves saint Laurent is worth $350 million dollars dead. Rogers and Sammer Stein 235. Michael Jackson, $90 million. And Elvis Presley, only a mere$55 million. I would have thought he was more than that.
KING: I`m not surprised the numbers have jumped for Michael Jackson. I didn`t have one Michael Jackson song on my ipod. After he died and I started hearing the music, I decided I wanted to get the top things I remember. I know a lot of people have done that.
BEHAR: It`s interesting.
KING: You didn`t do that, Joy? You don`t have Michael Jackson joys on your ipod?
BEHAR: I don`t know how to even download. How much do you think this film`s going to make? Frank, do you know?
DELOW: Well, I -- we think it`s going to do very well. Right now, two days, we`re at about $22 million. But you have to remember something that 90% of all the profits go to the children`s trust.
BEHAR: That`s good.
KING: Not only that, they`re saying right now it`s only going to play for two weeks. I don`t believe that, Joy. I believe there will be such a demand for the movie, they`ll say, well, why don`t we extend it another week, another two weeks? But right now, it`s really genius when you think about it, to be told you only have two weeks. You think I have to go see it now.
BEHAR: And yet hasn`t sold out everywhere. Did you know that? It has not sold out everywhere.
KING: I did not know that.
BEHAR: It has not sold out everywhere, Frank. Maybe it`s too much of Michael right now or the economy? I don`t know what the reason is.
KING: I heard it was sold out everywhere.
DELOW: It may be -- it could be in certain areas that it hasn`t sold out. Our research hasn`t been, you know, that great today for me to comment on that.
KING: Yeah.
DELOW: I`m sure there`s small pockets that haven`t sold out. I`m sure buffalo didn`t sell out.
KING: Would you go see it?
(CROSSTALK)
DELOW: We never sold a lot of records in buffalo.
BEHAR: Now a lot of the money is going to go to the kids. Do you think the children should see the movie? Do you think it`s going to have negative effects on the kids or what?
KING: Well, it`s funny -- go ahead, Frank.
BEHAR: Go ahead Frank.
DELOW: I`m sorry. The children do want to see the film. They both have had the flu. They`ve missed two of the screenings set up for them. They will see it probably in the next week or so.
BEHAR: A lot of the -- a news article I read said that these children are being used as pawns in the financial tug of war that`s going on.
KING: See I don`t know anything about it. Are the children being used or not used, I think whether the decision is made for them to see it will come at a time when they are ready. But when I was sitting there watching it, I was watching with my daughter who is 23. I said I wonder how difficult this is for his kids. I found it difficult to watch and I never met Michael Jackson. I`ve never had a conversation with him, but I felt such sadness for the life that he had. I really do - I really did. It made me so incredibly sad. So I can`t imagine what it`s like for people who loved him and knew him.
You know two of the brothers were on "Oprah" Jackie and Tito, I believe it was Tito who said it was too painful for him to see it yet. I`m curious how the people who really knew him the way Frank does -
BEHAR: I want to talk when we come back about his legacy and how this is being affected. So we`ll be back with more on the Michael Jackson movie in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
I think he would have loved it, only because it shows that there`s a person in him throughout all the rehearsals and everything, you see when he is focused, and he`s concentrating on the band. You see there`s a humane side to him as opposed to him being on stage all the time and the glitz and the glamour. I think he would be very proud
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back discussing all the madness surrounding the new Michael Jackson film This Is It with Gayle King, the beautiful Gayle King. KING: You look very pretty tonight.
BEHAR: Thanks. Yea Frank you look very exceptional by the way.
DELOW: Well thank you.
BEHAR: OK, you`re welcome. So at the end of it, does the movie help his image or hurt his legacy, what do you think?
KING: Well I think his legacy is filled with a lot of contradictions. I really do, you know, there`s a lot of people that believe Michael Jackson had some issues. I am one of those people. But I do believe that that -- this movie will help his legacy. Because I, for me, and a lot of people who saw the movie, Jermaine alluded to it a second ago, saw a totally different side of him. Joy, he was very kind and --
BEHAR: He was kind?
KING: Based on the tape that I saw, he was very kind with the people he worked with. Even when he was chastising one of the musicians in the movie. Someone done something that he disagreed with and he said I say this with L.O.V.E. love, but could you do this with bla, bla, bla. I now believe that that`s going to be something people will pick up on. You know there are a couple of times where he says, I`m sizzling. I believe that that`s going to be pop reference. Let it simmer. I believe that`s going to be a pop culture reference. You see how passionate he was about his work and you admire that.
BEHAR: Oh yes. He was consummate professional in his work really. But Frank, you knew him for a long time as his manager, right?
DELOW: Right.
BEHAR: What do you think about all the negative stuff Gayle alluded to, some of the stuff in his back ground was not always positive and wonderful. What about that?
DELOW: I`ve known Michael since 1979, and I managed him the longest at 5 1/2 years in the middle of his career. But -- yeah, there has always been a lot of controversy with Michael. But I think when you see this film, you will get a new revived feeling for him. People who loved him will love it. People who are just being introduced him as young children will love him. People who are older and see it will remember him in a great light.
BEHAR: What about all the bad press he got about having children in his bed and all that stuff that came out a few years ago?
DELOW: It`s all garbage. BEHAR: Is that going to go away? It`s all garbage?
DELOW: I think so.
BEHAR: It`s all garbage?
DELOW: I think so. A lot of it was garbage. You know some of it was important, some of it wasn`t. But this clears up the legacy and sets it straight.
BEHAR: Gayle you know there seems to be a different perception of him with the races. For example, 44% of whites are fans of Michael Jackson, but 81% of blacks are fans. Do you think it`s a racial issue? Or white people are not musical?
KING: That 81% are fans? What what say it again?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I love him. Only 44 whites.
KING: I don`t agree with those numbers.
BEHAR: You don`t?
KING: No, no. When you go to a concert, you sew a mixture of the people that go to se Michael Jackson. So I`m surprised to hear that. No, no, no. I disagree with those facts, Mrs. Behar. Where did you get them?
BEHAR: It was a CNN poll actually.
KING: What Frank just said people who loved him before will continue to do so.
BEHAR: And I love both of you for coming on the show. Good night, everybody.
END
