Return to Transcripts main page
Joy Behar Page
Sherri Shepherd`s "Permission Slips"; Interview with Former Letterman Writer
Aired October 30, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HLN ANCHOR: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, my good friend Sherri Shepherd will be here to talk about her amazing new book, "Permission Slips." What`s amazing is that "The View" gave her permission to come on my show.
Then, as a writer at Letterman, she wasn`t fondled, groped or pinched but she quit anyway. In an exclusive interview with Nell Scovell, we`ll find out why she left Letterman.
And Hulk Hogan will be here to discuss more than just body slams and full nelsons. He`ll talk about life, love and loss; sort of like a lifetime movie with choke holds.
That and more, tonight.
Are you looking for some helpful marriage tips? Well, start putting out. That`s the advice of my next guest, my good friend and very funny "View" co-host, Sherri Shepherd. Star of the lifetime sitcom "Sherri" and author of the new book "Permission Slips: Every Woman`s Guide to Giving Herself a Break."
Welcome to the show, Sherri.
SHERRI SHEPHERD, AUTHOR, "PERMISSION SLIPS": Joy girl, I feel like I just saw you two hours ago.
BEHAR: I know.
SHEPHERD: I`m so excited to be here. I watch your show every night. I really do, yes.
BEHAR: And you tweet, you tweet.
SHEPHERD: I read Twitter and you had Hulk Hogan on the show Joy and he said, "Joy, are you trying to flirt with me." And you don`t even pretend like you are flirting, you went no. And then you, you go I`m so menopausal. I`m so menopausal I don`t get turned up by anything anymore. I re-tweeted that to all of my 150,000 followers.
BEHAR: Well, he believes it because he`s a man and he`s a wrestler. He believes every woman is flirting with him.
SHEPHERD: But I love it because you just -- you are, you would just call people on stuff. And you were so honest. To me I would have flirted with Hulk just to make him feel good because he`s a man.
BEHAR: Oh really.
SHEPHERD: I want him to walk away, still with his everything -- his cajones (ph) still large. And I want him to -- I would want Hulk to feel like, you know what, yes, I still got it.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: And you were like, no you don`t turn me on not in anyway. You date women that look like your daughter. So go on.
BEHAR: You know who has large cajones?
SHEPHERD: Who?
BEHAR: I mean, literally?
SHEPHERD: Who?
BEHAR: Tom Jones.
SHEPHERD: Really.
BEHAR: Because he was at "The View" in the green room. And somebody said you know, you really got some...
SHEPHERD: Yes.
BEHAR: ... package in there. And he said it`s not that, it`s my testicles. Do we really need to hear that?
SHEPHERD: Are you serious, but can I tell, I actually believe that. I want to see Tom Jones -- that is the funniest story.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: Jordana and I your assistant.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: When we went to see Tom Jones later that night. And I did not know that women throw their underwear at Tom Jones.
BEHAR: They do.
SHEPHERD: So it was a lot of older women in the audience. And Jordana and I sitting up at the top and we go what is that large thing sitting on the stage. I think somebody threw like a girdle or something. It was underwear all over the stage.
BEHAR: Oh my God.
SHEPHERD: It`s size 38, petite. I know. It`s like keep your panties. Oh, man.
BEHAR: But you know, you say in your book...
SHEPHERD: Yes.
BEHAR: That every bout of insanity in your life can be traced to a man.
SHEPHERD: Yes.
BEHAR: Well, I can see that. But you lost your virginity at 14.
SHEPHERD: I did.
BEHAR: To who?
SHEPHERD: Gilbert Hernandez.
BEHAR: Oh really -- was it good for you, Gilbert? Ok, how old was Gilbert?
SHEPHERD: Gilbert was 16.
BEHAR: Oh really.
SHEPHERD: He was 16.
BEHAR: And so you just...
SHEPHERD: You know what, peer pressure. This is why these kids can`t give in to peer pressure because I was listening to all the girls in my school go, when you have sex, you`re going to have great orgasms and you`re going to be screaming and hollering.
So I was, I came from strict -- really religious household and I was like well, I want to be hollering. So I went over to my girlfriend`s house to spend the night and Gilbert was there at the pool.
BEHAR: Sure.
SHEPHERD: And when I went to him. I was like Gilbert, you want my virginity, he went yes. We just made a time to get together. And you know what? And so he climbed up the tree and climbed in the window...
BEHAR: And then climbed on you.
SHEPHERD: And climbed on me and we did it. I was not hollering and screaming from ecstasy, it was from pain.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: And I had the runs the next day.
BEHAR: Oh no.
SHEPHERD: And that was it.
BEHAR: Thank you for sharing that.
SHEPHERD: I`m sorry, it was awful, it wasn`t good. It was horrible and I didn`t get to go to Disneyland.
BEHAR: Do you think that you have made bad decisions over the years with men or is it just bad luck?
SHEPHERD: No, I think it was bad decisions. I have one boyfriend who went to prison.
BEHAR: Is he watching?
SHEPHERD: Probably.
BEHAR: What`s his name?
SHEPHERD: I can`t say what his name is. He`s a really nice guy, I don`t want to say what his name.
BEHAR: What -- did he kill somebody?
SHEPHERD: He actually -- he went to prison for arson. He went to prison for arson. What are you all laughing for? He served his time. He`s doing good now. He`s out.
You know what happened, I was at the Comedy Store in L.A. and he had gotten out of prison and I was there with some girlfriends about to go on. And somebody tapped my shoulder. And it was him.
And then he came and he asked if I could go to dinner with him. And I told everybody. I said yes. And I said to my girlfriend, I said, if I`m not back in 15 minutes call the police. Because he already told me he was going to hack my body up.
When we were together he used to tell, if I left him, he`s going to kill me and he was going to put me in a tub and pour boric acid over my body. And what didn`t dissolve, he was going to grind up in the salad and eat.
BEHAR: What is he writing a book?
SHEPHERD: No, I don`t think he was writing a book. This is what he told me what he`s going to do. I mean, I had some crazy guys. But he wanted to...
BEHAR: But why did you go out with him?
SHEPHERD: Because I didn`t know what he was going to say; I didn`t want to cause a scene. I just, but all he wanted to do was ask for forgiveness about what a jerk he was. And he was sorry...
BEHAR: I see.
SHEPHERD: And I said that`s fine, you never have to contact me again. But every once in awhile, he`ll send me like a love letter and he`d...
BEHAR: He`s romantic.
SHEPHERD: Yes.
You know who you are. You`re watching. How are you doing?
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: Hi.
BEHAR: So let`s talk about your ex-husband because he`s not here either. So let`s discuss him
SHEPHERD: Ok.
BEHAR: First all, you`re paying some money to him, right?
SHEPHERD: Well, yes because I have to pay alimony.
BEHAR: Because you got married and divorced in California, right?
SHEPHERD: Yes.
BEHAR: In that state, do you think that`s right in that state that people have to split their money with their spouse? I don`t think it`s fair.
SHEPHERD: I don`t know. Because if I was on the other side and I was a stay at home mom, I think I would want half the money. So I`m not going to say it`s wrong. It is what it is. I`m the one that`s working. I`m on "The View" so I`m making more money.
BEHAR: Why isn`t he working?
SHEPHERD: Well, I mean, he is. But he`s not -- he`s not a series regular on the show.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: So I`m still making more money.
BEHAR: Right.
SHEPHERD: So I got, you know that`s the law.
BEHAR: But you`re paying for your son.
SHEPHERD: Yes.
BEHAR: He`s your baby.
SHEPHERD: Yes.
BEHAR: Jeffrey is the most adorable child.
SHEPHERD: Thank you.
BEHAR: He comes to visit us all the time. And then he got -- he had another woman pregnant...
SHEPHERD: Yes.
BEHAR: ... while you were married to him, right?
SHEPHERD: It was just a little infidelity. Does that sound like a politician? It was just a little infidelity.
BEHAR: Yes, well, you didn`t do it. So just talk about it then.
SHEPHERD: Yes, so I have to say.
BEHAR: Well, so he got into trouble with another woman.
SHEPHERD: Right.
BEHAR: Another black girl, right?
SHEPHERD: She was white, yes.
BEHAR: A white girl, is that like a double insult?
SHEPHERD: You know what? We do still have those issues. I mean, black woman, I know, on my show, there`s a line in my sitcom. And it says, they said what did you do when you found out your husband cheated. And I said, screw me once shame on you, screw a white girl, we`re done.
And I had a lot of people tweeted because they said it was reverse racism. It was only white women that didn`t like it. You know why...
BEHAR: I wonder why.
SHEPHERD: Why did I say that? But it`s still -- there`s still is an issue of black men dating white women.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: And that was, so when you see this, it just hits you of why would you go to a white woman. Was I not good enough? I guess it would be the same thing if he messed around with a man. I would go to another man, am I not good enough that you have to go to another man?
BEHAR: Well, it is a complaint in the black community with woman, I think...
SHEPHERD: Yes.
BEHAR: That the best black guys are taken over by white women.
SHEPHERD: Yes. And now I heard another comment say white women are getting mad because all the Asian women are getting this...
BEHAR: You see? It never ends.
SHEPHERD: Yes, so it never ends. I mean, but it is still -- it still is a very big issue.
BEHAR: It`s a big issue.
All right, now, your little baby, we talked about him. And tell me about your foundation before we go on. So we get that over with.
SHEPHERD: My son Jeffrey -- and a lot of people don`t know he was born at five and a half months.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: So he has developmental delays. He goes to a wonderful school out here in Manhattan run by an organization called the YAI Organization.
BEHAR: What does that stand for?
SHEPHERD: I don`t know. But it`s called the YAI Organization and what you. And they do -- all I know is they do a wonderful job...
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: ... for children that have autism and children with developmental delays. And they`re trying to build a kindergarten through sixth...
BEHAR: I see.
SHEPHERD: ... school because a lot of kids that get out of preschools they have to transition into public schools and the preschool have the therapy that Jeffrey needs. And they`re trying to build a kindergarten through sixth that have the same therapies, same compassionate teachers. And so I am now the spokesperson and I`m helping them.
BEHAR: That`s great.
SHEPHERD: ... get the school. I guess I should find out what YAI stands for.
BEHAR: Well, we`ll find out -- maybe someone could find out for us.
SHEPHERD: Could somebody find -- go on the Web site, it`s yai.org. And give it to Joy.
BEHAR: All right, so then, let`s go back to your life.
SHEPHERD: Yes.
BEHAR: Because in this book -- where was it, I need a book. Someone will get it for me in the next segment.
SHEPHERD: Thank you.
BEHAR: You talk about like abortions that you`ve had.
SHEPHERD: Yes.
BEHAR: Now, you`ve talked about that you had a lot of them.
SHEPHERD: Yes.
BEHAR: How many? How many did you have really?
SHEPHERD: I had a lot.
BEHAR: Ten?
SHEPHERD: Yes, it was a lot.
BEHAR: Really?
SHEPHERD: It was a long time -- it was over a decade and a half ago. But I was young. And it was a time when for me, it was like birth control.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: Because you know, sometimes when you are young, you just don`t think about the ramifications or the consequences of the choices that you make. And I was one of those girls. I didn`t think about these are babies. I just knew that I was pregnant and I didn`t want to be pregnant anymore.
BEHAR: So wasn`t it easier after the fifth abortion to say to yourself I might as well just use a condom and it`s lot easier than an abortion.
SHEPHERD: No. I just didn`t think about it. I was a teenager -- I just didn`t think about it.
BEHAR: Now, you didn`t have to write this in your book. You could have kept that to yourself. But you put it in there.
SHEPHERD: I did because you know what? What hit me later on was the guilt. When I finally grew up and got a little wisdom and I realized, "Wait a minute I killed a lot of babies because I`m not for abortion."
BEHAR: That`s how you feel about it.
SHEPHERD: That`s how I feel about it, that I killed a lot of babies. That I made really bad choices and it took years before I could let the guilt go. And it was because someone at church said to me, "When you get to heaven, your babies are going to be there and they`re going to say, `Momma, we`ve been waiting for you`."
And for me, that freed me up of the guilt and forgiven myself. So I wanted to let other women know that you can forgive yourself. You don`t have to carry around that shame for the rest of your life.
Now I`m not against taking away a woman`s choice but I don`t believe in abortion because I feel like...
BEHAR: For yourself?
SHEPHERD: I just don`t believe in abortion, period. But I would never take away a woman`s right to choose what`s good for her body. But I still believe that when you do have an abortion, still inside, you go through a lot of stuff. It tears away at your spirit and your soul. So I don`t think people think about that.
BEHAR: That`s not true of everybody, by the way. I know that a lot of people think that.
SHEPHERD: What?
BEHAR: Some -- I know people who have had abortions, they don`t think twice about it.
SHEPHERD: I don`t know.
BEHAR: They don`t look back on it. They don`t think they killed a baby. None of that. They just think it`s a tiny little thing that`s just there; now, it`s not there, anymore.
(CROSS TALK)
SHEPHERD: Yes. I think it might not happen. I think sooner or later it would. But it`s them.
I feel like the more the people that I talk to, they do feel a sense of shame or guilt.
Ok, we`re going to talk some more.
SHEPHERD: Oh, I get to come back?
BEHAR: Yes. You`re staying.
SHEPHERD: Well, good.
BEHAR: You stay right there.
We`ll be back in a minute with Sherri Shepherd.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the lovely and talented Sherri Shepherd.
Sherri, let me talk to you about your childhood a little bit.
SHEPHERD: Sure.
BEHAR: Because you are the only person I know who was raised as Jehovah`s Witness.
SHEPHERD: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, they used to knock on our doors when I lived in Brooklyn...
SHEPHERD: And this is what I did when like, when we would knock on your door, I would see you pull back the curtains, and then let the curtains go. And I`ll be knocking on the door and you wouldn`t come to the door. And I knew you was home. I knew you were home.
And everybody always does that. My father would put me out there first because when you finally come to the door, if you saw my dad, you would be like I`m not interested and you slam the door.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHEPHERD: While he was talking. If you saw me, an 8-year-old, it was a little bit harder to slam that door.
BEHAR: But did they slam it on you when you were 8 years old?
SHEPHERD: I didn`t really get too many doors slammed in my face because I was a cute little girl.
BEHAR: You were.
SHEPHERD: My father always put me right there in front.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: What would you do when they opened the door and you were standing there, a little 8-year-old kid.
SHEPHERD: I would say, "Hi. My name is Sherri Shepherd and I`m one of Jehovah`s Witnesses. Did you know Armageddon was going to come and I would like to share a Bible scripture with you? And I was so cute.
BEHAR: And then what would they say? What are you talking about?
SHEPHERD: They would just go, "Ok".
BEHAR: Oh, not Armageddon again.
Not that again.
SHEPHERD: Then I would read the Bible scripture and then I go and I have my Watchtower and my Wake. Then the people would buy it. And then I go, "Can we come back" and they would be like, "Ok".
BEHAR: Did you like it at all?
SHEPHERD: That was very hard for me.
BEHAR: I wouldn`t have liked it but maybe you liked it.
SHEPHERD: I was very shy. It was very hard for me going from door- to-door. It`s called going out in field service; it`s what it was called. Because I wasn`t a person who`s like pushing myself on people, and if a person said no, I didn`t like -- I was like, ok, I want to go. But I had to learn to go beyond -- go past the "no".
BEHAR: So what would you do? How would you go past that? What would you do? Would your father show up then?
SHEPHERD: My father was always at the door. He was always with me.
(CROSS TALK)
SHEPHERD: Or my father would stand downstairs. I guess, seeing a big black man at your door would scare somebody so he would stand down at the bottom of the stairs. No matter the daddy, they could have snatched me, but that`s ok.
But I was learning to give you more scriptures. I was very well- versed in Bible scriptures. Because as a Jehovah`s Witness, I went to five meetings a week, three at the Kingdom Hall which is their church and then two studies at home with -- in like in a smaller study group.
If you don`t know your Bible, an 8-year-old could wrap you around in circles with the Bible if she was Jehovah`s Witness, yes.
BEHAR: Were you allowed to watch TV or celebrate. Do you celebrate at Christmas, Easter?
SHEPHERD: No. We did not celebrate holidays. No Christmas, no Easter, no Halloween.
BEHAR: Don`t they believe in Jesus?
SHEPHERD: They do believe in Jesus, but December 25th was not Jesus` birthday. And from what I remember being a Jehovah`s Witness, in the bible, the two birthdays that were celebrated ended in death.
So they believed why celebrate a person`s birth, as opposed that you should celebrate their death because you know their accomplishments. So we didn`t celebrate birthdays.
BEHAR: I see.
SHEPHERD: We didn`t vote. Which is why when I came on "The View", I didn`t know anything about politics because that was...
BEHAR: It was tough for you in the beginning.
SHEPHERD: It was tough.
BEHAR: But you have gotten so good at it. You do your homework now. You study. You come in with your little notes. I see you with your notes. You are on top of it now.
SHEPHERD: Thank you. I can still be confused when you and Elisabeth get to go on about -- you know, you going off on Bush and her going off on Obama. I just sit back because you all...
(CROSS TALK)
SHEPHERD: I try.
BEHAR: You do. I mean, in the beginning, it was very rough for you because I remember -- let`s go over the worst day when Barbara said to you, "Do you believe the world is round?" Then you said, "I don`t know."
SHEPHERD: I`m just trying to take care of my baby. That`s what I said. I was so nervous.
BEHAR: You were so nervous. Of course, you know the world is round. You had a globe.
SHEPHERD: Yes. As a matter of fact, I took a globe on Jay Leno and I said, "I`m not the black Jessica Simpson."
BEHAR: I mean -- but that day, she got you all crazy and you didn`t know what to say.
SHEPHERD: I didn`t know what to say.
BEHAR: And that just became a whole big to do about you. And luckily you`re a sweet girl with a great sense of humor. You didn`t let it get to you. And you made a joke about it.
SHEPHERD: Well, it`s because I had a lot of support from you guys.
BEHAR: But it`s the beauty of being a comedian. You know, you just make a joke about it.
SHEPHERD: Absolutely. You make a joke.
BEHAR: Good for you.
SHEPHERD: One thing I remember, you always say, "As soon as you open your mouth, you`re going to lose half your audience." You did say it.
BEHAR: You lose half your audience. Oh, the right wing bloggers hate me. I enjoy that.
There`s a clip, let`s look at a clip of Sherri`s show. What`s it called, again?
SHEPHERD: "Sherri."
BEHAR: "Sherri." Can we see that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you doing here? Is the boy all right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s fine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I know you don`t need a pediatrician.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Greg and I just had lunch. We`re dating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really? Since when?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About a month and a half but I`d have to check my date planner to really...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s none of your damn business.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a really private matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was a clip of the multi-talented Sherri Shepherd in her new Lifetime sitcom, "Sherri." How did they come with that title?
SHEPHERD: You know, we`re stand up comics. I didn`t care what they called -- "Sherri`s in the Kitchen" "Sherri`s Big Toe Hurt" -- as long as Sherri was in the title of the sitcom.
BEHAR: You`re very funny in it. And you`re also terrific in this movies "Precious." You`re like a dramatic actress there, right?
SHEPHERD: That was my first dramatic role.
BEHAR: You played somebody called Corn Rose. I was up for that, also.
SHEPHERD: Why didn`t you get it?
Those actresses in that film just really were fantastic; you and Monique and the young lady.
SHEPHERD: They were. Gabby...
BEHAR: Fantastic job, I think.
SHEPHERD: It was really -- I`m very honor that Lee Daniels the director -- you know my audition that he picked me to be in the movie. It was really fun doing it. I keep saying that Monique and Gabby will get nominated for an Oscar. If I can get just the 6th episode (INAUDIBLE) on "Law and Order"...
BEHAR: You`ll be happy.
Are you looking for more work? How much more can you do?
SHEPHERD: I would love to do more work Joy. You know how it is.
BEHAR: You do "The View" five days a week.
SHEPHERD: Then I go and do "Sherri."
BEHAR: When do you have time for "Law and Order"?
SHEPHERD: Usually they can work around your schedule. That`s what "30 Rock," did. They worked around my...
BEHAR: "30 Rock" you are on that also?
SHEPHERD: On "30 Rock" I go at 9:00 at night and just knock that out.
BEHAR: Believe or not, we have another segment with you.
SHEPHERD: Oh, we do?
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Back with more Sherri Shepherd in just a moment.
We stretch here. We stretch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Sherri, the wait is over. Get that hot body out here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well, that was the very fetching Sherri Shepherd when she showed off her slimmed down bod in a bathing suit on "The View". Let me tell you, you -- that took a lot of guts for you to come out in a bathing suit. I mean, very few women will do that.
SHEPHERD: Finally, when that day came, I said what did I get myself into?
BEHAR: Well, you lost weight and you worked out. And you wanted to show it off.
SHEPHERD: I know but I was really scared. I was just hoping that I didn`t fall on the heels, that my wig didn`t come off. And if I fell, hold the stomach in while you fall. Then the mike pack fell in my butt, remember?
BEHAR: Oh yes, that`s right.
SHEPHERD: We pulled it off.
BEHAR: Was this like the payback to all those guy that screwed you.
SHEPHERD: You know what? It was really -- I just wanted to be healthy. And I wanted to show women you don`t have to take any magic pills or do anything.
BEHAR: Why does every woman who loses on television have to say she wants to be healthy? We don`t want to be healthy. We want to be thin.
SHEPHERD: No Joy. You`re not going to put words in my mouth. We want to be healthy. We`re supposed to do Pilates, you and me.
BEHAR: I`m not in the mood.
SHEPHERD: You see. You never follow through with the exercise with me.
BEHAR: I can`t. I have someone coming over and she`s teaching me to breathe. I`m just up to breathing, now.
You had diabetes, right?
SHEPHERD: I still have diabetes.
BEHAR: You still have it. That might have motivated you to be healthy.
SHEPHERD: It did. Because you know why? My mom passed away at 41 from diabetes. And I`m 42, thank you. I didn`t want to do that to my son. So any time I was at the gym, that thing that helped me do that last squat was my son calling some other woman mommy. And that would just give me that extra oomph to do that last squat. I want to be around for him.
BEHAR: That`s good.
We have some questions from Facebook and Twitter.
Yes.
Bernie sent us a question on Twitter. He wants to know if you ever had tweet sex?
SHEPHERD: Well...
BEHAR: Sounds like sleeping with a bird.
SHEPHERD: Thank you. That would be a man. You can only do it in 140 characters or less. I need more than 140 characters to do that.
BEHAR: How would you have tweet sex?
SHEPHERD: I have no -- I guess the guy wants you to just tweet nasty stuff.
BEHAR: And then he tweets nasty back.
SHEPHERD: But it`s only 140 characters. What can you do with that?
BEHAR: There`s a few things. Why drag it out, you know?
The next question is from Jamie who asks, "On your sitcom, you help your ex-husband`s baby`s mom. Are you friendly with her in real life?
SHEPHERD: We`re not friendly, we`re cordial to each other because we both have sons. We have to get along for the boys. So we`re not -- you won`t see us at Thanksgiving dinner.
BEHAR: And the boys are brothers.
SHEPHERD: The boys are brothers.
BEHAR: They`re half brothers.
SHEPHERD: They`re half brothers and they love each other. They adore each other. So we`re not going to skip rope and holding hands singing "Kumbaya" but we say hi.
BEHAR: But that`s very mature of you.
Nadia or Nydia sent the last question on Twitter. "What is your opinion on marriage? I have come to the conclusion that marriage is not for everyone and that for some, it`s not in our DNA."
SHEPHERD: I agree with that. Well, I think it`s in my DNA. I love being married.
BEHAR: You love being married.
SHEPHERD: I love being married. I would love to be married again but right now -- if it happens, it happens. I`m not going to rush it.
BEHAR: You are still celibate?
SHEPHERD: I`m hanging on to it. I`m still hanging on to it.
BEHAR: Why? Because you want to be married when you have sex?
SHEPHERD: Yes. It`s this thing -- of course, I have a son. I don`t want to be out there with every Tom, Dick and Harry.
BEHAR: Thank you Sherri.
SHEPHERD: I love you Joy.
BEHAR: I love you back. I really do.
SHEPHERD: This is so much fun.
BEHAR: Her new book is "Permission Slip: Every woman`s guide to giving herself a break."
SHEPHERD: Tuesday is Lifetime.
BEHAR: And Tuesday she`s on Lifetime with "Sherri."
We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: There`s been a lot of talk about what went on at the David Letterman Show. We`re going to find out what really happen from an eyewitness. Earlier this week I had the chance to sit down with Nell Scovell, a former writer for NBC`s late night with David Lettermen for an exclusive interview.
NELL SCOVELL, FORMER WRITER FOR NBC: I was a second woman ever hired. The first was, of course the great Marel Marco. And she helped create the show. She was my hero before she became my friend. And I wanted to be on that show. I was a journalist and wrote on "Spy" magazine and "Vanity Fair" in New York. And then I applied for the show in 1988. I filled out the classic submission. I didn`t hear anything from the show for two years. I got offers in L.A. I worked on the last season of "Newhart." You know I was there when Bob woke up with Susan Pleschette and I wrote a "Simpson`s" episode. And then I finally got the call that you know Dave wanted to meet me. You know it was my dream job. I loved that show. And it was a breakthrough. So I moved back to New York to take the job. And five months later, I ended up walking away from my dream job because it was a hostile work environment.
BEHAR: Describe it a little bit for me.
SCOVELL: Well you know -- 19-year-old office gossip is so fascinating, isn`t it? You know it`s I --
BEHAR: No I don`t want to hear the gossip. I just want to know how - - what was going on that made you leave. You loved the job and the show. Something was going on that made you feel uncomfortable.
SCOVELL: No, I was not going to flourish. It was just a situation where I was -- you know, you talked about it on "The View" yourself. If you are doing your job and working hard and you are in the middle of a soap opera, then, you know, that`s not -- I wasn`t going to thrive professionally. I didn`t get the memo as a young girl that said you should have low self-esteem and put up with crap. So, I just - I quit.
BEHAR: Good for you. Some people say you should have stayed. Some say you should have stayed. When you quit a job like that, a guy will get the job. But --
SCOVELL: Let me also, historically, this was 1990. It was a year before Anita Hill. There wasn`t that much awareness of sexual harassment or sexual favoritism. And so I knew it was dysfunctional. But you know I didn`t think there was legal recourse. And I did -- I didn`t have options. I didn`t have a job to go to at the time. But I was lucky it wasn`t my first job in television and a few months later, I was working on a top ten sitcom coach, which I loved, created by Barry Kempt. I was on there for over two seasons.
BEHAR: So what was your reaction when, by the way, Anita Hill story was the tipping point for all sexual harassment suits and everything else. And women everywhere realize that these guys cannot get away with that type of behavior, anymore. What was your reaction when this all came to light?
SCOVELL: The what?
BEHAR: The blackmail?
SCOVELL: Well first of all, you know, it was a terrible thing and no one should be blackmailed. And I should say that. You know, I really didn`t move on. And in fact, I wrote a piece supporting Dave and the Sarah Palin joke, just a few months previously in Vanity Fair. I dug up this great quote from Johnny Carson making fun of Lyndon Johnson`s daughter. And I thought if Johnny could do it, so could Dave. So the extortion was plot was unfortunate and, you know. Dave exposing himself, so to speak on air, and the affairs, you know, that wasn`t news to anyone who worked on the show.
But, then as more people voiced opinions about what it was like in that environment. You know, I talked about "The View" in my article and the misconceptions. I felt that burden to bear witness. It`s crazy. It`s the tiniest injustice. But you know you don`t chose your injustices, they choose you.
BEHAR: OK, let`s talk about the time you spent as the writer in the writer`s room. How many women were at the big three shows when you were there and how about now?
SCOVELL: Well, okay. Forget feelings and opinions, let`s talk numbers. Between Letterman, Leno and "The Tonight Show" there are 50 comedy writers. Of which exactly zero are women.
BEHAR: 50. 5-0, is that what you said? 50.
SCOVELL: Yes. There are 14 male writers on Letterman now. And by 14, its interesting is historically in 27 years, there have only been seven women writers on the show. Today, there are twice as many men as in all 27 years.
BEHAR: Do you think a comedy suffers; these shows suffer because they don`t have women writers? Or is it just --
SCOVELL: Absolutely.
BEHAR: To me, they never put a woman in late night and all the men are running late night and the comedy writers. And I`m happy that Wanda Sykes is getting a late night show. I wish her all the best in the world. Believe me - we`re all rooting for Wanda.
SCOVELL: Oh she`s hilarious.
BEHAR: You know but it`s hard to breakthrough that.
SCOVELL: Yeah. I do think, you know, the funniest room -- writer`s room I`ve ever been in was when I was at "Murphy Brown." it was split half and half. And it was not the only funniest room I`ve ever been in, but it was actually the crudest, probably. And you know, one of the reasons I wanted to become a comedy writer, I saw a movie Albert Brooks made, "Real Life" --
BEHAR: Oh, yeah.
SCOVELL: And Albert, he always wrote with a woman, with Monica Johnson. And you know, I think the more viewpoints, the more comedy. And if everyone is shooting for the same joke target and no one is looking into the weeds for the unexpected, then the whole product suffers.
BEHAR: Thank you Nell very much for coming on the show. I know you blew off a few other shows just to be on my show and I really appreciate that. Thanks very much.
SCOVELL: I appreciate all you had to say on "The View."
BEHAR: When we come back, Hulk Hogan joins me to discuss the dark side of fame. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Hulk Hogan has dealt with tough opponents in his day, of course most of them wearing spandex. But in his new book, "My Life outside the Ring" Hulk describes facing even tougher stuff abuse, anger, and extramarital affairs. Shockingly he also talks about suicide thoughts. And that`s where I started the interview. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
HOGAN: Yea well I kind of like bottomed out. You know I had a whole bunch of things happen in a short amount of time. I lost my family, basically had a show on NBC, a prime time show, where the first day on the set I get hit with divorce papers in front of a sound stage and arena full of people. And they had NBC on one side and my son was there - you know everything just hit me
BEHAR: The reality show?
HOGAN: No, no it was American gladiators, a prime time show. And so that hit me at once, you know. And just a bunch of things happened. My son had an accident, you know. I went through some crazy things trying to get through the shoot. Because we had a bunch of episodes ordered. And I just couldn`t get out of it. When I went back to the big house my family grew up in, you know. Everything was gone. The kids weren`t there, you know, my wife was gone. We had - we were animal freaks. We had animals. All the animals were gone. And when I went through every closet, all the clothes were gone. And there were pictures all over the house of my family and stuff.
BEHAR: Why didn`t she take the pictures?
HOGAN: Oh I don`t know. But you know I was in so much pain from my back and hips. I had a chair that I sat in the bath room because I couldn`t stand up and shave my face, I could only shave half my face. So I had to lie on the floor and then get back up so I had a chair I sat in just to shave and brush my teeth. I found myself sitting in the chair and it was just like, it came on all at once. After 23 years of marriage, you know, everything was over. And I just found myself going back to kind of like the old wrestler attitude. I grabbed the bottle of liquor, and I found this really old bottle of Xanaxes. I ate a couple and started drinking this bottle. And you know as the day went on, my gun was there. And I don`t remember getting the gun. I just remember hiding the gun in the safe.
BEHAR: She left the gun and the pictures.
HOGAN: Right, right, right. I remember hiding the gun in the safe for many years because I didn`t want to turn into another Phil Hartman, it was that crazy of a marriage. And so all of a sudden here I am with this gun. I`ve always thought anybody that attempted suicide was a coward. But I had no idea cow could slip into this situation and not realize. And I found myself playing with this gun and hitting it on my teeth and messing with it. And this went on for a couple of days. And several people called me Steve Chapman, my neighbor called me, a friend of mine, Bubba, called me. Eric Bishop, another friend. I thought I was doing real good by saying I`m okay man, don`t worry about me. Then finally, Laila Ali called me.
BEHAR: Laila, Muhammad Ali`s daughter?
HOGAN: Right, she said, we`re so worried about you. You left L.A. and you we`re so depressed and we haven`t heard from you - just hearing her voice snapped me out of it. It really did.
BEHAR: You know you - it`s really interesting that story. It went on for a couple of days where you were toying with the idea but then you decided not to do it.
HOGAN: No it just was - I guess I kind of like hypnotized myself. I sat there and the more I sat there - it just - you know I almost looked at myself for so long it didn`t seem real.
BEHAR: So did it change your attitude to suicidal people? Cause one woman I know who tried to kill herself because she was very ill. She said it`s impossible to do -- very hard to do. It takes a certain kind of guts to do it almost. It`s not a cowardly thing.
HOGAN: I couldn`t do it.
BEHAR: You could not do it?
HOGAN: No I couldn`t do it. And the thing was I just didn`t realize how - I didn`t understand why everything changed so fast.
BEHAR: Yea but the wife, your wife, 23 years with her. You say it was horrific to live with her. What was she doing?
HOGAN: Well you know she was unhappy. You know and I don`t know if
BEHAR: Was she unhappy for 23 years?
HOGAN: No when we started out, I mean, I`m still madly in love with her. I mean she`s a great person, and you know, I know that person. That`s the one that I married and as the time went on, you know. She had a desire to move back to Los Angeles. And my work was on the east coast, that`s where all the wrestle was here. And we made several attempts to go back and forth. I kept several homes in L.A. and you know as her desire to go back where she started happen, my career was getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And the drinking started out kind of like a social thing and it got to the point it never stopped. I asked her, the kids asked her. She went to the Betty Ford clinic for a short while. And then it go to an aggressive, violent relationship where instead of saying hello, every word was the "f" toward me. And it got to the point where.
BEHAR: So the booze was doing it? You feel
HOGAN: In my opinion.
BEHAR: She was also; she told People magazine that over the holidays in 2007, she sank into a depression. She said, I didn`t have a gun, but I didn`t want to live. That was the same time you were contemplating suicide.
HOGAN: Well I mean she filed for divorce. And over the years, no matter what I took.
BEHAR: So but both of you were very crazy it sounds at that time.
HOGAN: Well I don`t know her situation was at that time.
BEHAR: That`s what she told "People" magazine at that time.
HOGAN: I`m not sure. The only thing I remember is they said there was going to be a war. I didn`t understand that either.
BEHAR: How did that become a war though - I mean for 23 year it wasn`t a war. It was a war for some of that time right?
HOGAN: Yea I mean behind the scenes there were serious hard times. Her attorney, attorney name A.J. Granthill out of Miami, made a statement to "People" magazine that this is going to be a war. That was the one thing that I begged Linda, don`t file for divorce. Please don`t file. When she publicly filed, that`s what changed me. Because all of a sudden, she publicly told everybody she didn`t love me, she didn`t want to be with me -- and never wanted to see me again so that was different from a private argument.
BEHAR: Do you think the lawyer geeked her up a little?
HOGAN: I don`t know.
BEHAR: Yea OK, before the divorce settlement, you said to "Rolling Stone" I could have turned everything into a crime scene, like O.J. cutting everybody`s throat. You know a 19-year-old boy is sleeping in bed with your wife. I totally understand. I get it. She was sleeping with a 19- year-old boy.
HOGAN: She`s in love with one of the children that went to school with one of my kids. And I was
BEHAR: She`s still with him?
HOGAN: Yes.
BEHAR: How long now?
HOGAN: I don`t know almost two years.
BEHAR: Really?
HOGAN: And you know it was a situation where when you love in a town, you`re proud to be from that town, and you`re the world champion, everybody looks up to you, and then all of a sudden, all your friends and your family, everybody there is tell you there`s a young kid driving your cars, and motorcycles, and your boats, and sleeping in bed with your wife, it does something to you as man. And it takes you to a place mentally where you have to decide well, bad, yes, no -- take the high road or the low road. And I was at that point in my life I`m saying, OK, am I going to go down the tubes and be a statistic or am I going to take the high road? I understand how someone like O.J. can go down that road. I understand how people can do the wrong thing, make mistakes. But I was in the point in my life where I chose to take the high road. I remained silent.
BEHAR: But O.J. Simpson from what I understand, he was in a lot of wife abuse, the two of them, for a long time. I don`t think sounds like your marriage wasn`t like that exactly. There wasn`t hitting in your relationship?
HOGAN: No there was no hitting.
BEHAR: So it`s just the jealous rage that she was sleeping with a kid. Who`s the kid? How old is your wife?
HOGAN: 51.
BEHAR: 51? She must have something that this 19-year-old is attracted to her. What do you think? Unless he`s a, you know, an idiot.
HOGAN: Well, what I`m saying is that you have to make a decision in life. And sometimes you have to say, OK, do I want to become a statistic. Do something really stupid?
BEHAR: But you didn`t -
HOGAN: No, No I chose to go the other way but I understand how people flip out and go crazy. I understand how a situation can happen and someone can flip out. I understand now.
BEHAR: I`m curious what you said though you said you`re still in love with your wife, she`s a wonderful person. And yet in your book you call her an abusive alcoholic. Who do you write this then if you love her so much?
HOGAN: Well I understand. I know the person that she was when I married her. I know who that person is. But as things went along, I went through a situation that I thought it was normal to yell and scream and have chaos and hear cuss words all the time. I didn`t understand that mentally and verbally that sometimes when you hear that all the time, whether you call it abuse or manipulation, at the time I thought that`s how life was. And then when I snapped out and got sick and tired of being sick and tired, what I call breathing clean air, I realize how wrong that was. That`s not normal, that`s not how things are. And I went through this crazy period and survived it.
(END OF VIDEO TAPE)
BEHAR: Isn`t it refreshing to see such a tough guy so in touch with his feelings. Back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: In 1960, women weren`t allowed to serve in combat. Eisenhower was first lady. Today, a former first lady has run for president. And women are generals in the United States army. Earlier this week, I sat down with Gail Collins New York Times columnist and author of "When Everything Changed." The amazing journey of American women from 1960 to the present. I started out by asking who she thought was the most important woman now.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
GAIL COLLINS, NEW YORK TIMES COLUMNIST AND AUTHOR: You know I`d have to go for Judge Ginsburg. I mean really Supreme Court justices.
BEHAR: You mean they have more power? COLLINS: Or Hilary Clinton, Secretary of State. I don`t think first lady is really the same kind of deal.
BEHAR: No, not since Eleanor Roosevelt. She really did have a lot of power.
COLLINS: Yes and she was also the head of an entire wing of the Democratic party, sort of the social progressive wing there, she created an entire wing of the Democratic party. She did way more than the normal first lady.
BEHAR: But it`s incredible really. Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of House, Hillary Clinton, the two judges, we have come a long way, in many ways.
COLLINS: It`s very hard, even if you were around in 1960, you don`t really remember what 1960 was like. This book starts out with a woman, poor lady, a secretary, who went down in 1960 to traffic court in Manhattan and was evicted for attempting to fight a ticket while wearing slacks.
BEHAR: Oh my goodness -- really?
COLLINS: It was legal to say we don`t hire women for that job. We told them f them - we don`t hire women to be writers at "Newsweek."
BEHAR: Very few people went to law school in those days.
COLLINS: 3% of the lawyers.
BEHAR: And now, they`re the majority. And they are in medical school too.
COLLINS: And college for that matter.
BEHAR: Yes, no you were the first ever female editorial page editor of "The New York Times." You know who breaks barriers like that? Sarah Palin, do you have anything else in common with her? Do you feel like shooting moose from a helicopter?
COLLINS: No but I did say once, you know, she`s a genuine heir to the women`s movement. She had never - she is not a person who feels encumbered by her gender. The first time I said that, Gloria Steinberg said I`m shooting myself right now, this is the end. But - it`s really true -- she`s not encumbered by many, many other things but not her.
BEHAR: She`s not encumbered by her gender. She things she can do it all?
COLLINS: I don`t think this is a women who ever said that women don`t do that, or I can`t do that cause, you know, I`m married now, I`m a mother - I don`t have time. And anyway she just did what she --
BEHAR: Yes. Do you think she`ll run in 2012?
COLLINS: She might run. She won`t win. I promise. I swear to you. She won`t win. I swear.
BEHAR: You know what we lived through George Bush, not the brightest bulb in the circuit. Ronald Reagan, he was no brain child --
COLLINS: When women have the right to be that stupid and become president.
BEHAR: That is very true. So do you think in the past 30 years, we have achieved enough? Where have we got to go?
COLLINS: You will never achieve enough. And at the big huge humongous is the fact that now we have half the work force, the labor force is female and we having not dealt with the question of who takes care of the kids when everybody is out working.
BEHAR: I know that is an issue and who cleans the house.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
BEHAR: We have come long way ladies but we have a long way to go. Thanks for watching, good night, everybody.
END
