Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Clinton Weighs in on Pakistan's Terror Crackdown; Pirate Captors Let British Couple Phone Home; Unemployment Woes Continue as Economy Grows; Where are the Jobs?; Clunkers: Pricey Ride?; A Nation of Cynics
Aired October 30, 2009 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you. Thanks very much for joining us on the Most News in the Morning on this Friday, October 30th. Halloween eve here.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. And I wish I could show you some of the costumes people came to work in today.
ROBERTS: Well, you came in your annual orange and black.
CHETRY: Yes. I switched it up, though. I didn't wear the orange suit. That's been retired.
ROBERTS: It can't last forever.
CHETRY: No.
ROBERTS: I'm John Roberts. Good morning to you.
CHETRY: And I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us. Here are the stories we're telling you about in the next 15 minutes.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton with some blunt words for critical ally in the war on terror. She said she finds it "hard to believe" that Pakistan cannot find Osama bin Laden and other al Qaeda leaders. Our Jill Dougherty goes one on one with the secretary of state.
ROBERTS: Hijacked on the high seas. A British man and his wife being held hostage by Somali pirates and for the first time, we're learning just what happened the moment their yacht was attacked in a dramatic phone call from captivity. We're live in London just ahead.
CHETRY: And signs the economy is turning a corner. Stocks soaring and stimulus dollars providing a spark, but is it all an illusion and where are the jobs? Ahead, when will all of this make a difference on Main Street?
But first, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton taking Pakistan to task over what she calls its failure to go after al Qaeda. Her blunt talk seemingly at odds with her mission there to build trust between this key ally in Washington.
This morning our foreign affairs correspondent Jill Dougherty had a chance to sit down with the secretary of state in Pakistan. She joins us now from Islamabad.
So, Jill, exactly what is Secretary Clinton saying this morning?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, that's really what's getting the headlines and the attention here. Those comments by the secretary that she really finds it hard to believe that no one in the Pakistani government seems to know where al Qaeda is or how to get them. So in the interview that we did this morning, I asked her to clarify that. What did she mean? And here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: What I was responding to is what I've been really doing on this trip which is that there exists a trust deficit certainly on the part of the Pakistanis toward the United States, toward our intentions and our actions. And yet we have so much in common. We face a common threat. We certainly have a common enemy in extremism and terrorism.
And so part of what I've been doing is answering every single charge, every, you know, question. I'm going to continue today to put myself in as many different settings as possible because it's not adequate just to meet with government officials. But trust is a two- way street. And I think it's important if we're going to have the kind of cooperative partnership that I think is in the best interest of both of our countries for me to express some of the questions that are on the minds of the American people. And I'm not prejudging the answer but I'm asking the question.
DOUGHERTY: But isn't that your -- is that your own question? Your own personal question?
CLINTON: Well, I'm an American and I think we have every reason to say, look, we are applauding the resolve you're showing in going after the Taliban extremist who threaten you, but let's not forget they are now part of a terrorist syndicate that in sort of classic syndicate terms would be headed by al Qaeda. Al Qaeda provides direction and training and funding and there is no doubt in anyone's mind that they are certainly encouraging these attacks on the Pakistani government, which are so tragic and which the Pakistani people are determined to be back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOUGHERTY: And so I also asked her about Iran and this apparent decision by Iran not to follow through on its commitment to ship out most of its low-enriched uranium for reprocessing. I asked her is it time to stop talking and start moving towards sanctions. And she actually said that she wants the process to play out. She said right now what they're trying to do is assess what Iran really intends to do. Is this, she said, you know, the final answer that they will not or could it be the beginning of a process that ultimately could bring Iran to the decision that the international community wants -- John.
ROBERTS: Jill Dougherty following the secretary of state there in Islamabad this morning. Jill, thanks so much.
To read a transcript of Jill's entire interview with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, go to our blog at CNN.com/amFIX today.
CHETRY: Also new this morning, a U.S. Coast Guard plane and a Marine helicopter colliding in midair. It happened just before midnight Eastern about 15 miles off the San Clemente Island. Right now using night vision goggles, the Navy and Coast Guard are searching off the Southern California coast by sea and by air for nine missing people. The Coast Guard says that debris has been spotted in the water.
ROBERTS: The House will likely vote next week on its new health care reform bill. It was unveiled by Democratic leaders and includes the controversial government-run public insurance option. Democrats say the proposed plan would cost less than $900 billion over the next decade, but a CNN analysis shows that number could actually be more than a trillion dollars. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says the bill would guarantee coverage for 96 percent of Americans.
CHETRY: Some health news now. If you're taking statin drugs like Lipitor or Zocor to lower cholesterol, there could be a hidden benefit. A study involving 2,800 people in ten states found that people with severe flu cases were twice as likely to survive the virus if they were already taking statin drugs. A federal study is now underway to see if taking statins after catching the flu could help.
We also have new clues this morning about how a British couple was kidnapped by Somali pirates. For the first time we're hearing from the couple. They were allowed to call from a ship where they're now being held.
Paul Chandler says he and his wife were sailing their yacht last week off of the coast of Somalia when the pirates struck. They snuck on board in the middle of the night while they were sleeping and then took them hostage at gunpoint. But when asked how they were treated, the connection was cut off.
CNN's Phil Black is following the story live from London. Hi, Phil. What else was this couple able to tell in this phone call?
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kiran, it was a short telephone conversation but in it Paul Chandler told an extraordinary story. For almost a week, a multinational naval force had been searching a big part of the Indian Ocean for this couple. Then in one day two significant developments. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLACK (voice-over): A floating mystery. The yacht Lynn Rival and the sail in the Indian Ocean with no one on board. It was found by a British warship. A tantalizing clue, but there was no sign of its owners, Paul and Rachel Chandler, missing for almost a week.
The retired British couple was sailing between the Seychelles and Tanzania when their yacht's emergency beacon activated. Then silence. In these dangerous waters, Somali pirates were always the obvious suspects that was only confirmed when CNN's British affiliate, ITV, made contact by phone with the couple's captors. They were allowed to speak directly with Paul Chandler.
PAUL CHANDLER, HOSTAGE: We were in the waters 60 miles from Victoria in the Seychelles. Three, four boats came alongside. I was off watch. I went to sleep and men with guns came aboard. Then we were forced to sail six days, sail and motor towards Somalia.
BLACK: It was a brief conversation but Chandler said he and his wife were now being held upon this Singapore-flag container ship hijacked by the same pirates two weeks ago. He said it's anchored just off the Somali coast. For the Chandlers' relatives in Britain, hearing this conversation was difficult but also encouraging.
STEPHEN COLLETT, RACH CHANDLER'S BROTHER: They're both very tough people. They've been used to long time traveling on the ocean.
BLACK: Tough people but not wealthy. And security experts believe that's where the pirates have miscalculated. They're used to negotiating and getting millions of dollars in ransoms with big companies that own ocean-going cargo ships.
CRISPIAN CUSS, DEFENSE CONSULTANT: It depends on the value of the cargo, the value of the vessel and the number of crew. In this case, though, two middle-aged British couple without a vessel perhaps will be lucky to get anything at all.
BLACK: The British government has demanded the couple's freedom. Experts say it's likely a military operation to rescue them will at least be considered but it's risky. A French assault on pirates in April resulted in the rescue of four hostages but another died.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACK: So a ransom demand is now expected imminently and this is where thing really slow down. The pirates traditionally ask for huge numbers. They demand many millions of dollars and it's in the process of slowly talking them down and reaching an agreement. Recent history shows this can take months -- Kiran.
CHETRY: And hopefully, they'll be able to survive this ordeal and get through it. Phil Black for us this morning. Thank you.
Also coming up in about an hour and a half, we're going to be speaking with Captain Richard Phillips. He was held by hostages -- he was held hostage rather by pirates. He traded his safety to save his crew after they attacked his ship, the Maersk Alabama. You may remember that story back in April. He's going to weigh in right now on this situation and also whether these so-called pirate proof ships are really pirate proof.
ROBERTS: Yes. Brian Todd had a chance to go down and see one of those just off the coast of Puerto Rico the other day, and we'll bring you some of that report along with the interview with the captain. Also new this morning, the president calling top military brass to the White House situation room today. He's meeting with the joint chiefs of staff as he moves closer to deciding whether to send more troops to fight in Afghanistan. We are approaching the end of the deadliest month there for U.S. troops in the entire eight-year war.
CHETRY: Well, say hello to America's new top doctor. The Senate confirming Dr. Regina Benjamin to be the new attorney general. The Alabama family physician is best known for rebuilding her rural health clinic after Hurricane Katrina hit the state's gulf coast.
ROBERTS: And who is your daddy? The New York Yankees have tied the World Series in a game a piece. They beat Pedro Martinez and the Phillies 3-1 last night in game two in the Bronx. Pedro once famously called the Yankees his daddy in a press conference a few years ago when he was with the Red Sox and what do you know? Yankee fans picked up on it. The series now goes to Philly for three games starting tomorrow.
CHETRY: All right. Well, still ahead, stocks soaring and stimulus dollars providing a bit of a spark. It appears we're on the road to recovery but some are saying is this all an illusion and where are the jobs? Two of our best economic minds break it down.
It's ten minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. The economy is growing again. But the big question, where are the jobs? With the unemployment rate approaching 10 percent, it's hard for many people to believe that the recession could be over.
And here to talk more about that this morning, economic analyst Lakshman Achuthan, and Jill Schlesinger. She's the editor-at-large for CBS Moneywatch.com.
I see you didn't get the no-tie (INAUDIBLE). It's Friday. It's Halloween eve. We're loosening up a little bit.
So we got the economy growing at 3.5 percent in the third quarter but a lot of that, in fact most of it due to government spending.
JILL SCHLESINGER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE AT CBS MONEYWATCH.COM: Yes. That's a little unnerving, is it? But it's not all of it. And we did see that consumers woke up and that's a good sign. Isn't it nice when we see people actually opening up their wallets when there's a deal. And I think you dig down through the numbers at 3.5 percent GDP, about 2.6 of that attributable to consumer spending and yes, it's cash for clunkers. But, you know, sometimes it's just an emotional thing. As we see people feel a tiny bit better, the worst is behind us, they will start to spend again and if you have a job, you are feeling more confident.
ROBERTS: Do you believe that, Lakshman, that the worst is behind us here? If it weren't for all the government spending, would we still be in a recession?
LAKSHMAN ACHUTHAN, MANAGING EDITOR, ECONOMIC CYCLE RESEARCH INSTITUTE FORECASTS: No, we wouldn't. So we're in a recovery. The government spending is putting a little extra shine on it. It is not responsible for the recovery.
Look, if it was so simple that the government could go out and spend and get rid of a recession, don't you think they'd do it all the time whenever a recession popped up? So it's not that simple. The truth is that the business cycle is much more powerful and it happened to have wanted to turn after a huge plunge.
So we are in a recovery that began this summer and as Jill was saying, there's a lot more going on than government spending. There's broad based consumer spending. They're spending in services. They're spending in software and equipment and nondurable goods. Things that don't last very long that wouldn't be a car for example. And all of those things are actually growing.
This first quarter of growth out of this recession, OK, is stronger than the first quarter of growth out of the last two recessions. So this is stronger recovery than people would have thought. It's not all about government, and I think it is sustainable.
ROBERTS: So things may be looking up but for a lot of people there's still a lot of pain out there as unemployment continues to march toward double digits. Tim Geithner even talked about that yesterday when he was talking to the Economic Club of Chicago. Let's listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIMOTHY GEITHNER, TREASURY SECRETARY: Unemployment rate remains unacceptably high. For every person out of work, for every family facing foreclosure, for every small business facing a credit crunch, the recession remains alive and acute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Sorry, that wasn't at the Economic Club of Chicago, but he also talked about that there.
ACHUTHAN: We got the point.
ROBERTS: Yes. So he says there's still a lot of people out there for whom the recession is not over.
SCHLESINGER: Yes.
ACHUTAN: Well, look, absolutely. When you say a recovery, it can't just be in GDP. If you want to keep it super simple, it's GDP and jobs. And we don't have jobs yet and so, therefore, not a lot of people are going to believe that this is a recovery until you do have jobs. So you will - you will get jobs growth. ROBERTS: How do you get the jobs? Because some people are talking - many people in Capitol Hill are talking about a package of incentives to stimulate job growth, just don't call it a second stimulus.
SCHLESINGER: Right. We - and we don't want to.
And you know what? There are sectors (ph) where the economy is growing and creating jobs. I mean, health care has added almost 559,000 jobs this year. Government will create jobs. There's jobs in technology. Technology companies came into this recovery with a little more cash on hand. They could take advantage of that. Those are education - you know, these are areas that are growing. I mean, you don't want to be looking for a job in manufacturing or construction or in retail, frankly, right now but, you know, there will be something that comes along and you don't always know what it's going to be.
Unfortunately for 7 million people who lost their jobs, a lot of those jobs aren't coming back, the jobs that were lost, but other jobs will arise. That is what we call creative destruction. It's what happens in the - when the economy goes into the tank and then comes out.
ROBERTS: Yes. You said if you want to be looking for a job, you want to look in health care, education, government, technology - those are some of the areas that are still hiring and hiring at a fairly brisk pace.
But, you know, we - you alluded to this just a couple of moments ago and I want to drill deeper on it. Once these government programs start to run their course, you know, the tax credit for first-time homebuyers, the stimulus package, once it gets, you know, sort of on the tail end of things, cash for clunkers program is over, is there a robust enough recovery in the private sector to continue growth at the pace that we saw in the third quarter?
ACHUTHAN: The answer is yes, OK? And - and the reason is because of the broad based nature of the recovery, not only in things like GDP where you're seeing growth away from government spending but, more importantly, in the leading indicators where you can see here are some indicators that are related to government spending and here a whole slew, the majority of them that aren't related to government spending that are also rising at the same time.
So that suggests you'll continue to see the recovery beyond just the sugar high. And very importantly there's a big difference between recovering, which is what we're doing, and being recovered, which is where we're nowhere near.
ROBERTS: And Jill, a quick prediction for the holiday season, how do you see it shaping up (ph).
SCHLESINGER: I think it's going to be a little bit better than people expect. I think people are going to be shocked and surprised when you think that the world is coming to an end. You can't get out of that mentality fast. It may be better than expected. Flat (ph) is the new black for the season, that's for certain.
ROBERTS: All right. Jill Schlesinger, Lakshman Achuthan, always great to see you.
ACHUTHAN: Thanks. We'll get rid of the tie (ph).
SCHLESINGER: Happy Halloween.
ROBERTS: You're not going to get the e-mails, aren't you (ph)? Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. Thanks so much.
Well, you know, some of the growth that you were talking about in the quarter is thanks to the Cash for Clunkers Program, but one group is saying that Cash for Clunkers actually cost taxpayers $24,000 per car. Is that right?
Christine Romans is "Minding Your Business." Eighteen minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Twenty minutes past the hour.
Christine Romans is here "Minding Your Business." We have a bit of a report card on Cash for Clunkers.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, we do, and we have the White House fighting back hard against this report from Edmunds.com that Cash for Clunkers might have been a little more expensive than you think.
Edmunds.com did its own analysis and found essentially that 125 auto purchases were driven by this Cash for Clunkers rebate. The whole - total cars sold 690,000 on the Cash for Clunkers. They say really just the rebate-driven sales was 125,000, divide $3 billion by 125,000 and you come up with $24,000 per car is the cost taxpayers - the White House comes back both barrels blazing on its blog, the White House blog, and says baloney, that Edmunds.com is absolutely wrong, that the number would have been much higher, that this report on Clunkers doesn't withstand even basic scrutiny and it's based on implausible assumptions.
The White House and Edmunds have different - they have different assumptions. An assumption is an assumption - it's not a fact. It's an assumption. They both have different sets of assumptions and they're analyzing this differently. But, essentially, the White House says that this was an important driver to the economy and that it worked. The GDP number yesterday, almost half of the growth in the economy was because of the auto industry, and many say that is because of Cash for Clunkers. There's no doubt the Cash for Clunkers did give that boost to the economy.
ROBERTS: For - for folks at home who might not be familiar with it, Edmunds.com is...
ROMANS: It's an online auto rating agency and auto information service. So it's - there's a lot of different ones. Edmunds.com is an online one.
CHETRY: And did the White House give its own as (ph) they knocked down what Edmunds said. How much did they say it cost per car?
ROMANS: Well, we have seen other estimates all the way up to 335,000 of these, but the bottom line is that 690,000 cars were sold under Cash for Clunkers. It doesn't matter why they were sold, but that - that activity, that economic activity did happen.
I think what - more important than he said/she said or the White House being angry about this, and I think is so important, is that, you know, counting the effects of all of this taxpayer money spent, there's a cottage industry in this and the White House wants to take credit when they can for where it's going right. And if you look in that GDP report, it's very clear that auto activity was a booster to the economy in the third quarter.
It's - it's just fascinating to me, this counting the jobs and the counting the costs of each of these different measures. We were...
ROBERTS: Sure. Everybody wants to take credit for good times.
ROMANS: It was an emergency, and we've been spending a lot of money for that (ph).
ROBERT: You got a Numeral for us this morning?
ROMANS: I do. It's 70,000, and this is another way the White House tries to count, I guess, the impact - the positive impact of Cash for Clunkers on the economy.
CHETRY: Jobs saved? Jobs saved and created?
ROMANS: Yes. Seventy thousand dollars (ph) auto jobs saved and created because of...
CHETRY: Seventy thousand auto jobs?
ROMANS: Seventy thousand. Right. So 70,000 autoworkers put back to work or kept in their job because of all of the spending in the auto industry. So - but you can go to the White House Web site and you can see this little fight back and forth of this - it's actually kind of entertaining.
ROBERTS: Excellent. We'll take a look at that.
So, a lot of he said/she said, people trying to take credit, people telling you what's good for you - they're all coming from the government, and do we trust what the government is telling us? Carol Costello's "Just Sayin'" this morning, and she's coming up next. It's 24 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
We're talking about trust this morning at 26 1/2 minutes past the hour. The dictionary defines trust as a, quote, "reliance on the integrity of a person or thing."
ROBERTS: Well, according to a new poll, trust appears to be in very short supply these days, especially when it comes to the American people and their government. It seems that many of us believe we're being misled or lied to a lot.
Carol Costello is live in Washington this morning. "Just Sayin'", and Carol, are we a nation of cynics?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I believe we are. I actually put the question on my Facebook page. I asked my friends, "Do you trust the government?"
Nobody said yes. Some said stuff I can't say on TV. There are many who believe this cynicism is bad for the country because it's difficult for the president or Congress to get anything done. But "Just Sayin'" is it really a bad thing? Could distrust in government actually be a good thing?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): Despite President Obama's campaign promises...
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITES STATES: Where there's cynicism, hope is always stronger.
COSTELLO: But hope has not put more trust in government. We feel as we've always felt, but worse.
According to a "Wall Street Journal"/NBC poll, if you ask Americans if they trust government to do the right thing all or most of the time, just 23 percent say yes. That's the lowest number since 1997. It is so abysmal, some say, it's hurt President Obama and Congress.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: What you find now is because people don't trust government, it provides a political opening for both parties to say don't trust the other guy.
COSTELLO: CNN Analyst Gloria Borger says that distrust has made the health care reform debate agonizingly slow. What's worst, some Americans are so loath to put their trust in government, they don't even believe health officials are telling them the truth about the swine flu.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I also question the severity of the problem. It seems to be a little bit blown out of proportion.
COSTELLO: According to the CDC, 20,000 Americans have been hospitalized, 1,000 have died.
On the other hand, swine flu skeptics aside, too much trust in government has gotten the country into trouble. After 9/11, trust in government was high. According to a CNN/"USA Today" gallop poll in October of 2001, 60 percent trusted the government to do the right thing always or most of the time, and some say that helped President Bush make the case for what some call the disastrous Iraq War which most Americans now oppose.
"Just Sayin'", can distrust in government be good?
GENE HEALY, CATO INSTITUTE: I think people ought to try to - to see the bright side in distrusting government.
COSTELLO: Gene Healy works for the Conservative Cato Institute.
HEALY: When you have lower trust in government, you tend to get fewer foreign wars, you tend to get fewer expensive government programs and you also tend to get fewer abuses of civil liberties.
COSTELLO: Healy says trust in government was high in the '60s during the Kennedy/Johnson years, when the US got into another unpopular war - Vietnam.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: And Healy says today our overly healthy distrust in government may slow something else - that would be government spending.
What do you think? Is distrust in government actually a good thing? Does it help more than hurt? Write to me on my blog at CNN.com/AMFix. That's CNN.com/AMFix. And we'll read some of your comments a little later on AMERICAN MORNING - John, Kiran.
ROBERTS: Looking forward to what people have to say this morning.
Thanks, Carol.
We're crossing the half hour now. Checking our top stories this morning. We're learning more about America's battle against a pandemic. According to new numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, as many as 5.7 million people were infected with the swine flu from mid April to July. Of those, between 9,000 and 21,000 had to be hospitalized. But the CDC says most of the cases were mild.
The United States this morning congratulating Honduras on an historic agreement that would end the political crisis in that country. Under the agreement which must be approved by Congress, President Manuel Zelaya who was forced out of power back in June will create a power sharing government with defacto president Roberto Micheletti until Zelaya's term ends in January.
And beer summit round two. Harvard scholar Henry Louise Gates Jr. and Cambridge police sergeant James Crowley met again at a local pub for about an hour. President Obama wasn't there. Back in July, Crowley arrested Gates in his home after a neighbor thought he was a burglar. The president got in the mix when he said that Crowley acted stupidly, and of course, there's the famous photo of the beer summit there at the White House - Kiran.
CHETRY: John, thanks. So how low can one Democrat go? Far enough to make him one of this week's wingnut. In fact, he's a repeat offender.
Each Friday, John Avlon calls out someone on the far left and the far right for taking politics to the extreme. John is our independent analyst, and he joins us now.
Good to see you this morning, John?
JOHN AVLON, INDEPENDENT POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.
CHETRY: All right. So who are you calling out for this week's wingnut on the left?
AVLON: As you said, a repeat offender, Allan Grayson of Florida Democrat. Just one month ago, he exploded on the scene by saying the Republicans health care plan was for people to die quickly, and somehow in the intervening weeks, he's managed to double down on the unhingedness. Let's hear two quotes of what he said recently that have given him this week's wingnut of the week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALAN GRAYSON, ALEX JONES RADIO SHOW: Fox News and the Republican collaborators are the enemy of America.
"She was saying, 'Oh, they don't know the difference between monetarism and fiscal policy,' and this and this and the other thing, and here I am, the only member of Congress who actually worked as an economist."
"And she said, 'This lobbyist, this K Street whore, is trying to teach me about economics.'"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: (INAUDIBLE).
CHETRY: Who was he talking about when he said that?
AVLON: He's talking about one of Ben Bernanke's aides. Who, yes -- who dropped the "K Street whore" bomb, and the Republicans are the enemy of America. That is a race to the bottom. That is serious wingnut stuff.
CHETRY: And then on top of that, I mean, he's very passionate about health care. He actually started this Web site and he's reading letters, people have written to him saying their loved ones died because they couldn't get access to health care. So let's look a little bit about what he's saying when he was reading some of this. He got a little choked up on the House floor, Wednesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAYSON: By the time she was diagnosed, she had lung, brain and ovarian cancer. She only lived about three months after that. To see terror in her eyes as she dealt with this is something no civilized person could match.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: All right. There you see it. I mean, where do you cross the line between passion, because clearly he's passionate about this and wingnuttery.
AVLON: Well, look, you want to reward compassion and sincerity in politicians, but crying seems to be sort of the new black among Wingnuts. It's a sign to say, I care so much that I must hate the political opposition." And there's something manipulative in it. There is something that playing the victim card while trying to get the upper hand. So I don't know. Beware of politicians bringing tears.
CHETRY: All right. Now let's talk about this week's wingnut on the right. And there are some friction that's going on right now in the Republican Party, especially if you've been following the special election that's taking place. It's New York's 23rd Congressional District. And there was a third party conservative candidate, and some big GOP members are supporting and endorsing people like Sarah Palin and Fred Thompson.
Newt Gingrich, though, is instead backing the more moderate Republican, and he says that purging the party of anyone who doesn't agree with Republicans 100 percent will just guarantee an Obama re- election. And he's taking some heat for these comments including the person you named wingnut on the right.
AVLON: That's right. Michelle Molken has taken a leadership role in turning Newt Gingrich into a bit of a pundit pinata on this one. The lead title of her blog, very illustrative, kind of the debates going inside the GOP. It was titled and response to Newt. He said, yes, Newt. The GOP should be purged of left-wing saboteurs.
So that really sums up a lot of the divides that are going on here. There's an intolerance for more centrist members of the party. The candidate in this case is somebody who is pro-choice and pro-gay rights, but endorsed by the NRA, representing it up, state district to New York, in a state where Republican congressional seats have gone from 13 ten years ago to just two today. So this is a fight with serious consequences, and there is an attitude right now that not only the candidate but her defenders should be drummed out of the party.
CHETRY: Right. And the interesting thing is that Newt Gingrich is sort of taking a stand that you have to be a little bit practical here, Republicans, if you want to be viable, and some of the other conservatives are saying, no, no, no, we got to get back to true ideology. We have to get back to the people who really believe the core, core principles of conservatism.
Is that sort of shaping up to be how this race is going to be framed come 2012 in terms of who leads the Republican Party?
AVLON: Well, there is a fascinating debate going on. What does it mean to be a conservative. There's no consensus on that.
Does it focus on -- include social issues? Is it 100 percent litmus test? These are things that are all being debated out. But right now what we're seeing in this seat is really the battle lines drawn between the Senate right and the far right, between the pundits and the pragmatist. And there's real stakes here. This is a Republican majority sit. But right now, the Democrats leading because the conservative and the Republican candidate are splitting the center right vote. That is just a real problem for the Republican Party. They're going to have to figure this out.
National conservatives weighing in against local conservatives. All sorts of questions here, but when Newt Gingrich is taking the heat for being a pragmatist, you got some real problems in the party.
CHETRY: Well, they got a couple years to sort it out.
By the way, Wingnut is going to be on hiatus for a little while.
AVLON: Yes.
CHETRY: Because we'd like to offer you congratulations. John Avlon is getting married. And he's off to his honeymoon. So congratulations to you.
AVLON: Thank you.
CHETRY: We will miss you, but have a blast.
AVLON: Thank you very much. I'll be back.
CHETRY: And as always, John's book is coming out as well. We want to let you know about it because it's going to be a great one. It's called "Attack of the Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking American Politics."
Also, if you want to know about the wingnut picks of John Avlon, go to our Web site at CNN.com/AMFIX.
And, John, you're going to like this one. The Wingnuts have caught on right here at A.M. You know, of course, the day before Halloween. We need to show one of our writers, Ryan Buckley, in honor of you. There he is. He came as a wingnut.
AVLON: I love it. I love it.
CHETRY: That's not only team spirit, but you know a shoutout to you, John, as well.
Ryan, good costume.
AVLON: Thanks, guys.
CHETRY: Very creative. How long did it take to make that thing? He made it.
AVLON: I'm hugely impressed and deeply touched.
CHETRY: All right.
ROBERTS: You know what I think would be a great idea? Is if we actually got a bunch of those made up, rust plated them and awarded them to our Wingnuts of the Week.
Do you think we could do that?
AVLON: I think this is a good idea. This is a gift we can give out -- just a little -- because we care.
CHETRY: Yes, absolutely.
ROBERTS: Good to see you, John.
Hey, congratulations, and good luck with the wedding.
AVLON: Thank you.
ROBERTS: Thirty-seven minutes after the hour.
How many people have you talked to recently who said, I made a mistake of going to the theater to see paranormal activity the other day, and I haven't been able to sleep since.
Well, scary movies are always in vogue and they are back with us again. But why do they scare us so much? Kareen Wynter takes a look, coming up.
It's 37 1/2 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Brad has been at it again, I take it.
CHETRY: That's right. Very talented. He actually carves those himself. One of our guys here -- Brad.
Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
You know, it's a time of year when Freddy Kruger, Jason and Chucky all come out to play. And of course there's this year's scare- the-pants-off-you thriller, "Paranormal Activity." Well, there will be fright movie marathons as we know all over the tube this weekend.
ROBERTS: Yes. They're becoming cheaper to make, more profitable than ever at the box office. So if they scare us so much, why the heck do we go see them?
Kareen Wynter goes deep inside the human psyche for answers.
KAREEN WYNTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Some compare it to riding the biggest roller coaster in the theme park -- a safe way to get a thrill. What is it about these terror flicks that offer movie junkies such a tempting escape.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WYNTER (voice-over): Why put yourself through this? 90 minutes of nail biting, seat-sinking fright. That's not exactly a cheap thrill. We set up our own camera inside a theater. And caught movie goers like this one who couldn't sit still during the late-night screening of the number one Box Office thriller "Paranormal Activity." She was scared speechless after the show.
Were you scared at all?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
WYNTER: It's this harmless adrenaline addiction that psychologists say keeps fanatics teetering on the edge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm like, oh, my God, this could actually be real.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll see how I sleep tonight.
JASON REISS, PSYCHOLOGY PROFESSOR, WHEATON COLLEGE: It actually acts as a safe way to experience danger.
WYNTER: Wheaton College professor Jason Reiss studies the psychology of fear, and explains why those who crave horror have such an insatiable appetite.
REISS: I can get this intense experience, but no matter how horrible it is, no matter how scary it is, or violent it is, as soon as the credits roll, I'm done. Horrow has been with us for a really long time as a genre.
WYNTER: For modern, spine-chilling films like "Scream" and "Saw," to cult classics...
(VIDEO CLIP)
WYNTER: But Reiss says there is a dark side to testing the limits of the human psyche.
REISS: If you're very emotionally invested in movies, then the negative experience is going to stay with you and that's not something that you would enjoy.
WYNTER: According to Hollywood.com, this year horror movies have already grossed nearly $1 billion dollars in ticket sales. Box Office experts say blockbuster films like "Paranormal" could further fuel this growing trend of terror releases. Reiss says more filmmakers are finding new, creative ways to terrify audiences like paranormal's Orin Peli, who believes something as simple as what you can't see elicits more fear than blood and gore.
OREN PELI, DIRECTOR, "PARANORMAL ACTIVITY": If you can't see and you don't even where the attack or, you know, anything it can be coming from.
WYNTER: Turning such an unpleasant emotion like fear into fun. What a concept.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WYNTER: Experts say because it's Halloween, even those who aren't horror buffs might be up for a good scare - John, Kiran.
ROBERTS: Kareen Wynter for us this morning.
CHETRY: Do you like to scare yourself?
ROBERTS: Yes. I used to love watching scary movies. I don't have a whole lot of desire to see them anymore. But the "Paranormal Activity," that film looks pretty good.
CHETRY: I'd like to see that one.
ROBERTS: And I think a budget of $15,000, as of the 28th, it had made $66 million at the Box Office.
CHETRY: Yes. Prediction, we're going to see more like that next year.
ROBERTS: Somebody is rolling in the dough.
CHETRY: Exactly.
ROBERTS: Well, as far as weather goes across the country, we got flood warnings, blizzard warnings. It's terrible out there. The only thing we're missing is a plate of locusts.
Rob Marciano is tracking the extreme weather, and he's coming up next from the weather center. Forty-four minutes now after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Wow. That's a spooky Halloween shot this morning on Halloween eve of Atlanta. Is that orange just for Halloween? Doesn't it look like it might, you know, the Empire State building.
ROBERTS: It's not a national holiday for everybody.
CHETRY: Just those of us who absolutely love it. All right. It's 61 degrees in Atlanta. (INAUDIBLE). Going up to 68 and mostly cloudy today.
ROBERTS: All right. Rob Marciano is tracking the extreme weather for us across the country this morning. He's at the weather center in Atlanta. We got lots of snow out there in Denver and risk of flooding in other parts of the country, Rob. It's quite a fall we got here.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. This storm has got everything. Very strong for this time of year for sure. As you mentioned, snow out in Colorado. Blizzard warnings right now across parts of the high plains and the other issue with this has been severe weather. I haven't mentioned it now. We mentioned the floods and the snow, but check some of the severe weather coming out of Louisiana, Houghton, Louisiana.
A number of tornadoes are reported here in and certainly taking down some trees and power lines and give some damage to homes here. So, that has been an ongoing theme. Today, we might see similar action as the storm slowly moves off toward the East. As far as rainfall is concerned, some of these numbers are records. For Shreveport, Louisiana, 5.3, Lufkin, Texas, 5.28, Nacogdoches, Texas almost 4 inches, and parts of Arkansas seeing similar amounts.
And look at all the flood warnings from Houston all of the way to Chicago. This is a huge storm tapping a lot of moisture, and a lot of those flood warnings are flash flood warnings meaning there's imminent danger for some of these folks. The backside of this, we're still seeing a tremendous amount of snow and also wind. Blizzard warnings on the backside of this for extreme parts of Eastern Colorado, that's in effect for the next couple of hours and also Western parts of Kansas and Nebraska.
And then the moisture from Houston up to Memphis, this is all slowly moving to the east and because it's moving slowly, we have that flood threat ahead of it, pretty mild. Temperatures in the 60s as far North as Washington D.C. sop pretty mild Halloween and also game three of the world series tomorrow night.
CHETRY: It's all tied up. Yeah. It's going to be exciting, Rob.
MARCIANO: Another pitching clinic last night from Burnett. Two great games. Looking forward to game three.
CHETRY: Me too.
MARCIANO: All right. See you guys.
ROBERTS: Thanks so much, rob.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is in Pakistan today. She went one-on-one with our Jill Dougherty. We'll bring you some of that coming right up. Forty-nine minutes now after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Fifty-two minutes past the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. We fast-forward now through some of the stories we'll be making news today. Banks in the hot seat for overdraft fees. At 9:30 Eastern this morning, the House Financial Services Committee will be hearing testimony on the overdraft protection act. It's a bill that requires banks to notify customers when a transaction would result in a fee. The senate is also working on a similar measure.
In Wall Street is looking to close off the week with yet another rally. The Dow gaining nearly 200 points yesterday. The biggest single gain in three months. The market is also inching closer once again to the 10,000 mark. It begins today at 9962.
We're also watching for developments overseas in the story of that British couple being held hostage by Somali pirates. Paul Chandler and his wife hijacked by pirates last week as they slept onboard their yacht in the Indian Ocean. And coming up in another hour for now, we're going to be talking to the captain of "Maersk Alabama" who risk his life after their ship was taken over by pirates to help save his crew.
ROBERTS: Yes. We're also going to show part of the Brian Todd report as well that he did. He went to Puerto Rico where a container ship has been outfitted with countermeasures and a security team. Could that be the future of defending cargo ships in the high seas? We'll find out.
We're also standing by for new economic report. One on the recovery act. The stimulus package. How many jobs actually were created by the government program. Maybe less than they claimed. Our Christine Romans has details of that coming up.
CHETRY: And also our Jill Dougherty had an interview with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. She's in Pakistan right now. She had some very interesting things to say about the hunt for Osama Bin Laden. And again, coming up at 7:30 Eastern time, we're going to be talking to Captain Richard Phillips. from the Maersk Alabama. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Coming up on four minutes before the top of the hour. Straight ahead on the Most News in the Morning, harsh words for Pakistan from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. She's accusing her ally a failure to crack down on al Qaeda. She thinks she finds it hard to believe that they can't find Osama Bin Laden in their country. Our Jill Dougherty is in Pakistan with Secretary Clinton. Her one-on- one interview coming up in just a moment -- John.
ROBERTS: Yeah. How many Pakistani officials have said they think he's dead only to find that he's not when they released one of those videotapes or audio tapes at least.
New developments this morning in the kidnapping of a British couple by Somali pirates. For the first time, we're hearing from the couple. Paul chandler says he and his wife were sailing their yacht when pirates snack aboard and took them hostage at gunpoint. But, when asked how they're being treated, the phone connection was cut off. Our Phil Black is following the story for us from London this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT, LONDON (voice-over): On the sail in the Indian Ocean with no one on board. It was found by a British warship, a tantalizing clue, but there was no sign of its owner, Paul and Rachel Chandler, missing for almost a week. The retired British couple was sailing between the Seychelles and (INAUDIBLE) when their yacht's emergency beacon activated.
Then, silence. In these dangerous waters, Somali pirates were always the obvious suspects but was only confirmed when CNN's British affiliate, ITV, made contact by phone with the couple's captors. They were allowed to speak directly with Paul Chandler.
PAUL CHANDLER, HOSTAGE: We were in the waters 60 miles from Victoria in the Seychelles. (INAUDIBLE)
BLACK: It was a brief conversation. But, Chandler said he and his wife were now being held upon this Singapore flagged container ship, hijacked by the same pirates two weeks ago. He said it's anchored just off the Somali coast. For the chandlers relatives in Britain, hearing this conversation was difficult but also encouraging.
STEPHEN COLLETT, RACH CHANDLER'S BROTHER: They're both very tough people. They've been used to long times traveling on the ocean.
BLACK: Tough people but not wealthy and security experts believe that's where the pirates have miscalculated. They're used to negotiating and getting millions of dollars in ransoms with big companies that own ocean going cargo ships.
CRISPIAN CUSS, DEFENSE CONSULTANT: It depends on the value of the cargo, the value of the vessel, and the number of crew. In this case, though, two middle-aged British couple without a vessel, of course be lucky to get anything at all.
BLACK: The British government has demanded the couple's freedom. Experts say it's likely a military operation to rescue them will at least be considered but it's risky. A French assault on pirates in April resulted in the rescue of four hostages but another died.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACK (on-camera): So, security experts believe that a military operation is now unlikely, just too risky. But, a ransom demand is considered imminent. So, things are really going to slow down from here. Traditionally, the pirates come in with very big demands. High numbers. Many millions of dollars. And they're reluctant to budge from that position. It takes some time. So, it all means the Chandlers can expect to remain in captivity for months -- John.
ROBERTS: Phil Black reporting for us from London this morning. Phil, thanks so much for that.
And later on this hour coming up at 7:30 Eastern, we are going to speak with Captain Richard Phillips. He was held hostage by pirates aboard "Maersk Alabama". He traded his safety to save his crew after they attacked the ship. We'll hear what he has to say about this current act of piracy, this British couple, as well as what he expects for the winter of 2009/2010 now that the monsoon season is over.
