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Nancy Grace
Missing 7-Month-Old Found in Box Under Baby-Sitter`s Bed
Aired November 05, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, the Florida panhandle. A newborn baby girl sleeping in the same bedroom with her parents vanishes without a trace, Halloween. The story becoming more distorted by the minute.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, cops blast into the home of the baby-sitter, and to their shock discover a tiny baby Shannon, just 11 pounds, trapped, hidden and locked inside a wooden chest. No bottle, no pillow, no stuffed toy. But miracle tonight is 7-month-old baby Shannon alive! Behind bars, the baby-sitter whose own little stepson went missing without a trace 22 years ago. He`s never been found.
Oh, yes. And in the cell next to baby-sitter, Mommy. That`s right, Mommy, who wanted to get rid of her own infant girl, little baby Shannon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are the proud papas of a little girl. This is Shannon Lea Dedrick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Relatives of baby Shannon learned that not only had she been found, but that she`s alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not usually get to the happy endings that we have -- happened here today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Haddock says Shannon was found in a box under the bed of Susan Baker, her step-aunt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing in that box was a blanket and a box of baking soda to cover the odor because she apparently had fouled her diaper, soiled it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you want to seen a bunch of grown men cry, tonight we rushed her to the hospital, and we`s all calling home to our wives to let them know we`d found this baby safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At an emotional news conference today, the Washington County sheriff talked about finding little Shannon alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This box had a lid on it and also had a hasp on it. She was in the box -- excuse me. She was in the box for almost 12 hours, in a closed box.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And breaking news tonight, live, Ohio. Cops raid the home of a convicted sex offender accused of yet another sex attack. Inside his three-story Cleveland home, seasoned detectives stunned, women`s bodies hidden throughout, bodies on every floor of the home, even stuffed in the crawlspaces.
Breaking tonight, the body count rises. As the excavation goes on, in addition to the 11 dead women found so far in the three-story home of former Marine Anthony Sowell, police now suspect another 14 missing women may have died at his hands. In the last hours, real-life CSI, firefighters, homicide detectives, cadaver dogs all back at Sowell`s home as they begin to literally tear down the walls in the search for dead women.
And also breaking tonight, two more lady victims identified, 31-year- old Tishana Culver and Telacia Fortson, mother of three, positively identified. Tonight, relatives of two lady victims with us live. Their mother`s, their daughter`s bodies hidden in this house of horrors for the last year.
And in another bizarre twist, we confirm just weeks after Sowell`s release from the pen, he lists himself on a sex Web site seeking, quote, "a submissive." Is this one the ways the former Marine trolled for victims? Tonight, unsuspecting neighbors in shock over an alleged serial killer living amongst them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body count increases in the house of horrors in Cleveland.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eleven victims. There were six inside the house and five recovered from the yard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They describe it, after the fact, as a smell of death, of rotting flesh of dead bodies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We received a phone call from a resident that said, Councilman, there`s a foul odor that`s coming from across the street and it smells like a dead person -- not dead meat, not dead animal, dead person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You could smell the stench a block away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... literally going to rip this home apart. They`re going to tear down the walls. They`re going on check every inch. They`re going to make sure that nothing else is inside of this house, that there`s no more evidence and that for sure, there are no more bodies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bodies buried in the ground decomposed eight times slower than a body left in air. So we had two in the third floor out in the air, we had two bodies under dirt, and we had five buried in the yard. So they`re all decomposing at different rates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) go back to the house and dig a little deeper because of the skull, and we need to find out where the rest of the body`s at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, live, the Florida panhandle. A newborn baby girl sleeping in the same bedroom with her parents vanishes without a trace, Halloween, the story becoming more distorted by the minute.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, cops blast into the home of the baby-sitter, and to their shock, discover a tiny baby Shannon, just 11 pounds, trapped, hidden and locked inside a wooden chest. No bottle, no pillow, no stuffed toys. But the miracle tonight is, there is a God, 7- month-old baby Shannon alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shannon Dedrick was found in a 2-by-3-foot cedar chest underneath a bed. Understand, under the bed, the box shoved in the back and a lot of material in front of it to deceive if anyone who was looking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s been missing for five days, and she`s so tiny, we just, you know, expected the worst.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They learned Shannon was alive as she was brought into the room by the sheriff and gave the baby an emotional welcome back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say they found baby Shannon Dedrick lying in a 2-by-3-foot cedar box shoved under a bed, stashed there for 12 hours. The baby-sitter-slash-aunt is charged in this. She has a violent criminal past. And now we`re hearing just hours ago, cops charged files against baby Shannon`s mom, the one who reported her missing Halloween day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just hours ago, investigators weren`t even sure if baby Shannon was still alive. Now she`s found alive and well, reunited with her family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... was immediately taken to the Northwest Florida Community Hospital here in Chipley, where she was examined by the local doctor. Shannon is currently located at the hospital, and we understand that she`s in good condition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Will Glover, joining us from "The Panama City News Herald." Will, what happened? And what led cops -- what cops to storm the home of the baby-sitter?
WILL GLOVER, "PANAMA CITY NEWS HERALD" (via telephone): Well, apparently, Nancy, this morning, a story about an e-mail that Ms. Baker had sent to Governor Charlie Crist detailing allegations of abuse had piqued the interests of law enforcement, were (ph) able to maybe perhaps prod them along. And they decided to go back out to Ms. Baker`s house out in rural...
GRACE: Right.
GLOVER: ... Washington County. They -- about 8:30 last night, they went in and received consent to search the house. At the back of the bed and pushed back behind things so no one could see them was a 2-by-3 cedar chest. Inside, when they opened the latch, they found alive and well baby Shannon.
GRACE: You know, it`s a miracle. And it`s my understanding -- to you, Clark Goldband -- the baby was -- it`s not just a cardboard box under a bed. This child was in a wooden chest. Take a look at this -- locked down. It`s like a cedar chest. And nothing to eat, nothing -- of course, she can`t eat. She`s only seven months. No bottle, no toy, nothing. In fact, they had put baking soda in the box because the baby would poop. And the baby had been in this box for many, many hours locked inside a box, Clark Goldband?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Ten to 12 hours, Nancy, is what law enforcement are saying. And you are right, that is a thick two-foot by three-foot chest, and you have to wonder exactly how much air that child had been getting, although law enforcement did say at a press conference the child did receive some form of oxygen.
GRACE: Joining me right now is a very special guest, Kandis Boyer. This is baby Shannon`s grandmother. Ms. Boyer, thank you for being with us.
KANDIS BOYER, SHANNON`S GRANDMOTHER (via telephone): Thank you.
GRACE: Where is the baby tonight?
BOYER: Well, she is safely in the arms of a wonderful couple in a medical house (ph). She is in the custody of the state of Florida. And she`s just in wonderful health. She has a clean bill of health. And she`s beautiful. I spent three hours with her today and...
GRACE: And I understand you have...
BOYER: ... it was just an amazing experience.
GRACE: ... quite a drive to get to your little grandchild. How far did you go to get to her today?
BOYER: Yes, ma`am. Today, well, it took us about 14 hours to get here, 875 miles.
GRACE: Seven hundred miles grandmother drove...
BOYER: Eight hundred. Eight hundred and seventy-five.
GRACE: Eight hundred miles, nearly nine hundred miles she`s driven to get to this baby. Ms. Boyer, whose mother you, the mother or the daddy`s?
BOYER: Chrystina Mercer is my daughter.
GRACE: OK, she is behind bars tonight. Why in the world would she want to give the baby to the baby-sitter?
BOYER: Well, as confused as Tina is, I -- I have to tell you, she has emphatically stated that she did not and would not ever harm her child. And I in my whole heart believe that she was manipulated into this situation.
GRACE: What about it, Marc Klaas? What do you think, Mommy manipulated?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I -- I -- it`s against every maternal extinct I`ve ever heard of to give up your child and then report it missing. This is one the craziest stories I`ve ever heard in my life.
GRACE: Well, all I know is this, Marc Klaas. This baby is alive. But it had been locked for 12 hours in a wooden chest. No bottle, no toy, nothing. Police find the baby today. Washington County sheriffs, congratulations! We are taking your calls live. With us, baby Shannon`s maternal grandmother. Mommy behind bars with the baby-sitter, who has a record of her own.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was in the box for almost 12 hours, in a closed box. Shannon was immediately taken to the Northwest Florida Community Hospital here in Chipley, where she was examined by the local doctor. Shannon is currently located at the hospital, and we understand that she`s in good condition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the story of baby Shannon. The 7-month-old baby girl missing in the Florida panhandle five days is now safe and in protective custody. Shannon Dedrick was found in a cedar box under a bed in her baby-sitter`s home in Chipley, Florida.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At approximately 9:55 PM, Shannon Dedrick was found in a 2-by-3-foot cedar chest underneath a bed. This box had a lid on it and also had a hasp on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities are planning to charge the baby- sitter, her husband and the baby`s own mother in the disappearance of that little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Haddock says Shannon was found in a box under the bed of Susan Baker, her step-aunt. They believe she had been in that box since around 8:00 o`clock Wednesday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Susan Baker, the baby-sitter, also sending an e- mail to the governor of Florida, Charlie Christ, pleading with him just a few weeks ago to save the child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The family is joyous right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My life will be a lot better now that I know she`s safe!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We rushed her to the hospital and we`s all calling home to our wives to let them know we`d found this baby safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I`ve got in my hand here the letter that this so-called baby- sitter sent to the governor complaining about these parents. This has clearly been in the works for some time. But how do you convince the birth mother to give up her 7-month-old baby girl?
Take a look at this e-mail to the governor. The baby`s being abused. I`ve seen the dad pick her up and shake her because she cries. Others in the home have also shaken the baby. She accuses the parents smoking heavily and doing dope, dealing their food stamps for drugs, all around the baby.
Joining me right now, special guest Dr. Robert Cartwright out of Atlanta, pediatrician. Dr. Cartwright, if a little baby, this -- I mean they told me when I brought the twins home not to even have somebody that smoked around them because it could induce SIDS, sudden infant death syndrome. And here they are smoking pot, according to this source, and heavily smoking cigarettes around the baby, that we know of, much less shaking the baby?
DR. ROBERT C. CARTWRIGHT, PEDIATRICIAN AND ALLERGIST: Absolutely. This is something that really is outrageous. And we really encourage parents never to smoke around their children. Certainly, that applies to regular cigarettes, but smoking marijuana is even that much worse. There are certainly plenty more chemicals and toxins that are in marijuana smoke as compared to cigarette smoke. Neither is good. We certainly know that cigarette smoke is a risk factor for sudden infant death syndrome, just as you mentioned. It`s a risk factor for other conditions, ear infections, sinus and nasal issues, asthma, other lung diseases.
GRACE: And you know, Dr. Cartwright, the list goes on. And I`m not going to even mention the fact that the baby is locked inside this cedar chest.
You know, back out to you, Will Glover with "The Panama City News Herald." A lot of e-mails and phoners are calling in that this looks more like a coffin. What about that, Will Glover?
GLOVER: I would agree. It is very small. And it`s more like a -- almost like a larger jewelry box, if you ask me. And she tucked it back there and apparently would put the baby there every time the cops would inquire about anything.
GRACE: This is just sick! We are talking your calls. Out to Diane in Florida. Hi, Diane.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show, and your twins are beautiful.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, exactly how was baby Shannon breathing in that locked box?
GRACE: Good question. What about it, Will Glover? How was the baby breathing?
GLOVER: There apparently were some holes that were poked into parts of the wooden box that would allow the baby to breathe. But of course, now the baby also was found under a bed, back against the wall, with stuff covering the surrounding -- you know, surrounding this chest, so...
GRACE: This is a miracle. This is a miracle. Look at this baby. Rosie, keep it on a full screen. Look at the baby. She`s absolutely gorgeous. When I think of what could have happened to this child...
And out to you, Pat Brown. It sounds like they poked holes in the box like it`s a 5th-grader`s science experiment with a bug or a rat in there and you poke holes so it can breathe!
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, exactly. This baby-sitter wasn`t concerned about the baby. This is an object to her. Whether it lives or dies doesn`t matter, as long as she gets to play her game and get attention and do whatever she wants.
GRACE: And Bethany Marshall, remember, the baby-sitter`s little 6- year-old stepson`s body has never been found.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I think this baby-sitter had a preoccupation with getting the baby away from the mother in order to have the mother`s attention all to herself. I`ve treated women like this in my practice, and they`re envious of babies, they resent them, and they want to get rid of them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are the proud papas of a little girl.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Shannon Lea Dedrick. We found her safe. We do not usually get to that happy endings that we have happened here today. If you want to seen a bunch of grown men cry, tonight when we rushed her to the hospital, and we`s all calling home to our wives to let them know we`d found this baby safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP) GRACE: I did the same thing. I came running out of the room. I said the baby, baby Shannon is alive. I couldn`t believe it. And you know what? He`s right, Marc Klaas. This is the exception to the rule. This never happens.
KLAAS: Well, it happens occasionally. Let me tell you, Nancy, that the Klaaskids search team was integral in recovering this little girl.
GRACE: Really?
KLAAS: Prior to going into the house, our dog handlers, Brad (ph) and Tammy Dennis (ph), were systematically searching the perimeter to see if there was a body there. And it was only after that area was cleared that the law enforcement decided to...
GRACE: Go in.
KLAAS: ... enter the house and ultimately find the baby. We`re very proud to have been proud of this.
GRACE: And I`m proud of you, Marc Klaas, along with the Washington County sheriff`s office. This is a miracle.
With us tonight, special guest Kandis Boyer. This is Shannon`s maternal grandmother. Ms. Boyer, what is your daughter telling you?
BOYER: Actually, my daughter`s not telling anybody anything. She`s denying this. She said she let her care for the child, and that was it.
GRACE: Well, then, why did...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: If she let her care for the child, then why did she tell police she didn`t know where the baby was, if she had given the baby over just to be cared for?
BOYER: I just really can`t answer that. She`s said so many different things. She seems to be very confused and -- and her frame of mind is very confused. That`s what I`ve gathered from talking to her myself since I have been here from Texas.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We`re going to take you straight back to baby Shannon`s discovery. But first out to Michael Board, WOAI Newsradio with breaking news.
What can you tell me about the latest at the Killeen, Texas shooting, Michael?
MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO (via phone): Well, we now know that Major Malik Hasan who shot and killed 11 people on Fort Hood here in Texas this afternoon before he was killed, was actually going to be deployed later this month.
He was set to be deployed out to Iraq and this was going to be his first deployment. It talks a lot about his mindset. Although we don`t know exactly what triggered this tragic shooting at Fort Hood. We do know, sort of, what was going on in his mind when he pulled two handguns and started firing wildly into this crowd which is here at this readiness facility here at Fort Hood.
GRACE: I was told they were M-16s. Is that true?
BOARD: No, it`s handguns. The M-16s are what the infantrymen would use. And since he`s a major, he`s a Navy officer, they were two handguns.
GRACE: Got. OK. So they were not M-16s. How many dead?
BOARD: No, they were not M-16s. No.
GRACE: Michael Board, how many dead?
BOARD: There`s -- a total of 12 dead including Major Hasan. That death toll is probably going to rise later this evening. There were two of the people who were wounded who are in very critical condition. One woman who was apparently shot in the face.
Reports said she might have already passed. We`re trying to confirm that, but Nancy, expect the death toll to rise tonight.
GRACE: And let me ask you this. Did Hasan have a family he was leaving behind, if he were deployed to Iraq?
BOARD: That`s not clear yet. I know he`s from Virginia. He comes from -- apparently he comes from a family that`s an Islamic family. They did not approve of him joining the army. I do not believe he had a family that he`s left behind. But you know that`s all going to come out as the investigation continues into this.
GRACE: With us Michael Board, WAOI Newsradio. And Michael Board, very quickly, at first the media was told that there were three shooters, but it`s my understanding there`s only one, Hasan.
BOARD: That`s what it looks like. There is still one person who is being questioned, but several people that were questioned earlier today have already been released. It looks like Major Hasan was the only shooter.
GRACE: OK, everybody, we`re taking your calls live. I want to go back to baby Shannon`s discovery. We`ll bring you the latest regarding the mass shooting at Fort Hood, That`s Killeen, Texas, as it comes in. As you know, 31 shot, 12 known dead. Many of them in critical condition. The hospital tonight.
I want to go back right now to the maternal grandmother of baby Shannon. She`s with us tonight. Kandis Boyer, but first unleash the lawyers. Mickey Sherman, veteran criminal defense attorney, author of "How You Can Defend Those People?" and renowned attorney out of New York, Richard Herman.
Let`s see, Sherman and Herman up on the big screen. There they are. All right, Herman, I don`t know what you`re -- thanks. I don`t know what you`re smiling about, but I would like to know how you can weave the story of mommy was manipulated. She didn`t know what was happening.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first, let me thank Marc Klaas for doing an incredible job discovering -- helping in the discovery, five days after the report of missing. That`s phenomenal. Thank God there`s a healthy baby here. This is.
GRACE: Herman, please answer the question.
HERMAN: This is an aunt who has had this baby on many occasions in the past. The baby has slept there. She`s brought the baby to doctor.
GRACE: Put Herman on the screen.
(CROSSTALK)
HERMAN: This is nothing more.
GRACE: Not a locked wooden chest.
HERMAN: This is nothing more than a family member taking a child for a period of time. They got it wrong. Baker is a hero.
GRACE: Really?
HERMAN: Yes.
GRACE: Well, let me ask you this, Sherman, where does the 911 call from mommy fit in?
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": I don`t know. I`m not so sure she`s a hero. These are wacky people, it`s simple as that.
GRACE: That`s your defense? You`re going to stand in front of a jury and say, they`re whacky?
SHERMAN: Well -- no, you know but these crimes are all prosecuted based upon the result. Thank God that nobody got killed or nobody`s dying here.
GRACE: You know what?
SHERMAN: OK? And that`s.
GRACE: B.S. and I am holding my tongue, all right? Don`t start trying to tell me there`s not a prosecution because the baby happened to live. You know what? That is thanks to God. This is definitely a miracle. But huh-uh. No, no, no. They can be forgiven while they are behind bars.
But what I want to figure out and now the grandmother is with me. Kandis Boyer has driven nearly 900 miles to get to her baby granddaughter.
Miss Boyer, you just told me that your daughter, baby Shannon`s mother, has said, quote, "So many different things." Like, what? What is she saying?
KANDIS BOYER, GRANDMOTHER OF SHANNON DEDRICK: For one that she didn`t know where her child was. For two that she did not harm her child. And the stories were always different. She`s very confused. Very confused. And you know -- but we`re going to stand behind my daughter.
I love my daughter deeply and we`re behind her 100 percent, no matter what she has to go through.
GRACE: Right. Well, she is very, very lucky to have you for a mother, Miss Boyer. But I don`t see how those stories are different. What does she say in one story that was different from another story?
BOYER: Well, for instance, she took the baby out for a walk at one time, went for a walk, came back, didn`t have the baby. Another story, 30 seconds later would be, I went for a walk at this time and came back and put the baby to bed, woke up, she was gone. Just so many different stories that -- it`s unbelievable how confused my daughter is. And.
GRACE: And -- go ahead, Miss Boyer.
BOYER: But she`s always -- she`s always had this confusion, mentally confusion problem. She`s always -- she`s been numerous counseling over the years. She needs help and she`s going to get the help she needs now and I...
GRACE: Miss Boyer, is the man on the birth certificate actually the biological father? Because we`ve been told he`s not.
BOYER: I do not know that. I do not know that at all.
GRACE: They just did that to get food stamps.
BOYER: I do not know that at all.
GRACE: Back to you Clark Goldband. Now those are different stories. What was the story they told police when they made that 911 call?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, the mom told law enforcement, simply, that she went to sleep around 3:00 a.m., woke up around 11:00 a.m., Shannon was gone even though she was sleeping in the same room just feet away.
GRACE: OK, Pat Brown, you`re the criminal profiler. Mommy manipulated?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": It might had been manipulated but I`m also seeing pathological lying. It`s not a matter of confusion, it`s a problem issues. You try one story and you get that kind of, that doesn`t sound too good, so you change your story.
I think she finally went with the Haleigh Cummings story because it worked for them so she`s thinking this will work for me.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers," joining us out of L.A. I`m not buying it.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": No.
GRACE: You know, this grandmother is standing by her daughter and I appreciate that, but I don`t believe what the girl is saying because she`s told so many different stories and the story she told police is -- a completely third edition. Now we`re hearing she wanted to get rid of the baby so she gave the baby away.
MARSHALL: I think this baby`s mother has a long history of acting confused to her own mother in order to avoid responsibility for what she`s really done. And in this case what she did, she gave her own baby away.
She had no maternal extinct as Marc Klaas said towards her own child. I think she allowed herself to be manipulated by the other woman who resented the intrusion...
GRACE: Wait. You know what? I`ve got to take issue with that.
MARSHALL: Yes.
GRACE: You don`t allow yourself to be manipulated. If you`re allowing yourself to be manipulated, you`re not manipulated. You`re going along with a scheme. And bottom line, this baby nearly died, stuffed into what looks to be a wooden coffin hidden up under bed, draped with material, covered up so police can`t find it.
This was not a matter of giving the child away to be adopted or else they would have not lied to police and put the baby in what looks to be a coffin.
Out to the lines, Felice in Texas. Hi, Felice.
FELICE, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
FELICE: I watch your show all the time and I appreciate what you do and God bless the men that found that baby but one of the questions that`s been answered about the baby`s abuse, but you look in that baby`s eyes and you can tell that it`s not a happy baby. A happy baby has happy eyes and this baby does not have happy eyes.
GRACE: Good question. Dr. Cartwright, you`ve looked at the baby via film. How does the baby look tour, quickly?
DR. ROBERT C. CARTWRIGHT, MD, PEDIATRICIAN AND ALLERGIST: Well, it certainly looks somewhat healthy but I would counter the argument that this child is really healthy. The child looks malnourished. The child has a large head compared to the rest of the child which would indicate a lack of nutrition. And I would agree with the caller. I think that the child`s eyes don`t look that great.
GRACE: We`ll be right back with Dr. Cartwright taking your calls. But tonight, our family album.
Here are photos of the twins. Lucy and John David. This is immediately after their birth. And I do not believe that they would be turning 2 this week had it not been without your prayers.
And in Connecticut, here`s Vicky and 2-year-old daughter Eva dressed as a tiger for Halloween. Texas friends. High schoolteacher Shelly and teen daughters Margaret and Macy. Cheerleaders. A beautiful wedding photo of Georgia friends Chris and Robin.
Looking on, Kentucky friends of the show, Linda, Brian, Kayla, Michael and three friends, Jazzy and Rooster. They never miss a show.
ANNOUNCER: "Nancy`s Family Album" brought to you by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The shockwaves are hitting even veteran judges.
JUDGE RONALD ADRINE, CLEVELAND MUNICIPAL COURT: Mr. Sowell, 28 years on being on this bench, this is without question the most serious set of allegations that I`ve ever faced.
CANDIOTTI: But how in the world could suspect Anthony Sowell or anyone allegedly murder so many victims hiding at least 11 bodies in the middle of a busy neighborhood?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were nobody know because nobody had seen them around here, walking, scrapping, picking up cans. Just chilling like a normal person.
CANDIOTTI: But could a normal person invite women in only to have them vanish without anyone noticing? All but one of the women dug up from a backyard and found inside the house are nameless. And until there`s a DNA match, no one yet knows who they are or where they came from.
The one identified victim is 52-year-old from a town outside of Cleveland, reported missing by her family a year ago. It`s not that neighbors didn`t smell something awful, a city councilman says even he got a call about it in 2007.
ZACH REED, CLEVELAND CITY COUNCILMAN: We received a phone call from a resident that said, Councilman, there`s a foul odor that`s coming from across the street and it smells like a dead person. Not dead meat, not dead animal, dead person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Dan Hagerty with WEWS. I understand that police now think that 14 more missing women may be dead at the hands of former Marine Sowell.
DAN HAGGERTY, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WEWS; COVERING STORY: Well, right now we know from his house in Cleveland, it`s 11 bodies. Well, why keep saying 11 bodies, it`s 10 bodies and one skull so there`s something more to be found here.
Police are back at house tonight. They`re going to be back here tomorrow and the next day. They have the fire department with them, cadaver dogs, they`re knocking down the walls. They are looking for pretty much anything they can find. But it is a very long road for them especially now that they`re even naming a third victim has been identified, Tashana Culver. A 31 year old.
She actually lived on the same street where Anthony Sowell lived. And she was never reported missing at all. We just got back from her family`s home. They still live on that street. This is 45 minutes ago. And we talked to her four kids. She has four children.
She`s been missing for a year. They thought she was with her boyfriend down in Akron. Never reported her missing. And in fact, the police notified them. We know this wasn`t a DNA identification.
GRACE: And to Stacey Newman, our producer on the story. What more can you tell me about the story, Stacey?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Let me tell you about the other victim that they`ve identified today, Nancy. Her name is 31-year-old Telacia Fortson. She went missing in June of this year. She is from East Cleveland. And we have found out that in order to make a positive I.D. on her, cops had to take DNA from one of her small children.
GRACE: So she leaves small children behind. Speaking of the victims, 11 lady victims that we know of so far. The excavation, the tearing down, literally tearing down the walls of this home set to start looking for more dead ladies.
There`s the possibility tonight that 14 more women may be dead at the hands of former Marine Anthony Sowell. That would raise the tally to 25 dead women.
With me right now very special guests, joining us at their family home, Barbara Carmichael, the mother of victim Tonia Carmichael. Also with her, Donnita Carmichael, her daughter. Also joining us, Debra Williams, she is the aunt of victim Telacia Fortson, her body identified today.
First, to Barbara Carmichael, the mother of murdered victim Tonia Carmichael. And as they are speaking, Rosie, I would like you to show those beautiful photos we have of Tonia Carmichael. Look at that smile. Look at her.
To her mother, Barbara Carmichael. Miss Carmichael, thank you for being with us. When did you learn your daughter was one of the victims, allegedly, of Anthony Sowell?
BARBARA CARMICHAEL, MOM OF TONIA CARMICHAEL, DAUGHTER`S BODY FOUND IN SEX OFFENDER HOME: Tuesday. And thank you for having us. It was Tuesday afternoon.
DONNITA CARMICHAEL, DAUGHTER OF TONIA CARMICHAEL, MOM`S BODY FOUND IN SEX OFFENDER HOME: Wednesday.
Was it Wednesday? The days are melting together here lately.
GRACE: You know, Miss Carmichael.
B. CARMICHAEL: Wednesday afternoon.
GRACE: I know how that feels. When the days just all -- time just seems to stop. And everything starts blending together.
B. CARMICHAEL: Right.
GRACE: Miss Carmichael.
B. CARMICHAEL: Exactly.
GRACE: . would you tell me about your little girl? Would you please tell me about her? What was she like growing up?
B. CARMICHAEL: She`s always been a beautiful person to me, of course. Very lively. Very active. Very fun-loving, outgoing and friendly. I used to tell her, don`t be so friendly to people that you don`t know, but this is the way she was.
Growing up, I had to kind of watch her, keep tight reins on her like you have to do most children but she grew up to be a lovely adult. She had three children who she dearly loved, devoted her life to caring for by herself.
GRACE: Really?
B. CARMICHAEL: She was a medical secretary. Yes.
GRACE: She brought them up on her own?
B. CARMICHAEL: By herself.
GRACE: And she had.
B. CARMICHAEL: No husband.
GRACE: . I believe two girls and a boy, right?
B. CARMICHAEL: Right. The oldest girl is 37. Middle girl is 32. Her son is 24.
GRACE: And with us tonight is Donnita Carmichael, this Tonia`s -- one of her daughters. Donnita, if you could, could you just tell me one of your most vivid memories of your mother in life?
D. CARMICHAEL: It`s Donnita, Nancy. And the most vivid thing, wow. There`s so many, it`s hard to pick one. But I will just say when she says, clean the dishes, clean the dishes.
GRACE: You know what, I`m just thinking about my little girl Lucy about my little boy and how she must feel, even though you`re all grown up, looking down on you from heaven, and realizing you`re going to have to go on without your mother.
With me, right now, Debra Williams. She`s the aunt of victim Telacia. Her body identified today. Telacia Fortson.
Miss Williams, thank you for being with us. When did you learn that your niece is allegedly one of Sowell`s many, many victims?
DEBRA WILLIAMS, AUNT OF TELACIA FORTSON, NIECE`S DEAD BODY FOUND IN SEX OFFENDER HOME (via phone): Today, about -- I guess about 1:00, 1:30. It was very hard but we`ve got to keep going and we`ve got to constantly pray for other family and, you know, stay strong for the children. She has three small children.
GRACE: How old are her children?
WILLIAMS: The oldest one is 6, the other one is 4 1/2 and the other one is 2 1/2.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seven died of ligature strangulation. One died of manual strangulation. Two, the decomposition of the body precludes accuracy sometimes and the last case the autopsy is on going.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Bill Golodner, former NYPD, now at Kindershield Agency.
Bill, I imagine that many, if not all of those 14 women police are talking about, will be connected to Sowell.
BILL GOLODNER, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE, COO OF KINDERSHIELD AGENCY: Yes, that`s true and they`re going to be connected by -- hopefully by DNA evidence. There`s also the possibility that they`re going to be doing some forensic work on computers that may have obtained from his home that will then be able to tie the victims to Sowell.
And this is primarily what they are going to be doing. And as a result of the DNA evidence that they may be able to have and further evidence that comes out of this case, they may be able to build quite a case against this monster.
GRACE: You`re right, Bill. And to you, Dr. Cartwright, a lot f these women are skeletonized. We know that one of the bodies is nothing but a skull. So from just a skull, how can they ever make an identification?
CARTWRIGHT: Well, certainly if can get ahold of dental records that would help to identify the particular person so -- also there is still DNA to be found, even in any tissue, really. So it may be something where they can still get DNA, even though it is just bones.
GRACE: Yes, I should have thought of that, Dr. Cartwright. The dental records. That`s how they`re already making identifications.
I want to, very quickly, go back Barbara and Donnita Carmichael.
Donnita, what are cops telling you about this case, about Sowell?
D. CARMICHAEL: That`s just it, Nancy, we have not spoken to any police officials from Cleveland or (INAUDIBLE) at this time.
GRACE: Oh really? Well, you know what?
D. CARMICHAEL: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: We`ll try to get in touch with them for you tonight.
D. CARMICHAEL: Thank you.
B. CARMICHAEL: Thank you.
D. CARMICHAEL: Thank you.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember, Army Private First-Class, Richard :Langenbrunner, just 19 in Fort Wayne, Indiana, killed Iraq. Awarded the Iraq Campaign Medal, Army Commendation Medal, Global War on Terrorism Service Medal. Known to fellow soldiers as LB, with a big heart. Loved outdoors, hunting, making others smile. Leaves behind parents Rick and Mary, sister Krystal, grandfather Richard.
Richard :Langenbrunner, American hero.
Thanks to our guest, but especially you for being with us. And happy birthday to our secret stars, floor manager, Samantha. Uh-oh, she`s turning 23. You`re getting on up there, Samantha.
Happy birthday, dear.
I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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