Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Fort Hood Shootings; Daughters of Anthony Sowell Victim Speak Out; Criminal Profiler Breaks Down Sowell's Case
Aired November 07, 2009 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: This week two major stories unfolding. The deadly shootings at Fort Hood, Texas, and the deepening mystery around a Cleveland man police believe may be connected with the deaths of as many as 10 people. We're going to be talking about both of these stories in depth this hour.
Let's get started right now with the latest from Fort Hood. This is what we know. Investigators are still trying to determine why the alleged shooter, Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan, opened fire at Fort Hood on Thursday. 13 people were killed. Hasan and 37 other people were wounded. Texas Governor Rick Perry talked today with some of the victims and described the conversations as humbling.
There will be a memorial service at Ft. Hood on Tuesday. The president and the first lady will attend Tuesday's memorial service, and in his weekly media address today, the president hailed the heroes who emerged from Thursday's horror.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Even as we saw the worst of human nature on full display, we also saw the best of America. We saw soldiers and civilians alike rushing to the aid of fallen comrades, tearing off bullet-riddled clothes to treat the injured, using blouses as tourniquets, taking down the shooter even as they bore wounds themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: The suspect, Major Nidal Malik Hasan is a U.S.-born Muslim of Palestinian descent. Investigators are trying to determine whether that in any way played a role in the attacks. Let's go now to CNN's Samantha Hayes who is in Temple, Texas. And Samantha, we heard from doctors today. We heard from the governor, all said that they are impressed by the progress many of the victims are making there at the hospital, but what more do we know perhaps about even the investigation?
SAMANTHA HAYES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, we know that authorities are very anxious to be able to talk to the suspect, Major Nidal Hasan, but he's been moved to another hospital in San Antonio. We would imagine to some extent for his safety, although he's being watched around the clock by military and law enforcement personnel.
They have in the meantime been talking to just about everybody they can who knows Hasan or has some interaction with him. Yesterday they went to his apartment. They confiscated some personal items. They spoke to neighbors who interacted with Hasan, you know, as late as just a few hours before the deadly shooting rampage at Ft. Hood. He apparently had given out free copies of the Koran. He had talked to a neighbor who he gave his remaining furnishings to from his apartment. So certainly Hasan knew that he was not going to be back to that area.
Officials at Ft. Hood had talked about the weapons that they believe that he had. They say that he had some kind of revolver and also a semi-automatic weapon and they believe the latter was his primary weapon. And they say that he fired more than 100 rounds into that soldier readiness facility that we talked so much about over the last couple of days. Certainly hoping to find out more information as it becomes available about the suspect and where authorities are in the investigation.
At the readiness facility Thursday, Fredricka, there were hundreds of soldiers there who were preparing to leave on various deployments, and so for this investigation to be rock solid, and you know that they're looking toward the potential murder charges and the case that will follow.
Investigators are probably going to be interviewing every single one of those folks, not only the soldiers who were injured but also the many who were there and witnessed this tragic event. You know, the prosecution of this eventually will probably be, you know, extremely detailed, you know, step by step that they believe that the suspect took along with witness statements and so on and so forth.
We're also learning a little more about the victims and also those injured. Some good news to report, that several of those who were treated at this hospital in Temple, Texas, have been released, and while the doctors here won't comment specifically on any given case, they seem to be optimistic about the progress of those patients. Fredricka?
WHITFIELD: And Samantha, while we know Texas Governor Rick Perry was there at the hospital earlier today, he refrained from the questions being asked to him about the investigation, but he was willing to say a little bit about his visit with some of the injured. What more did he say?
HAYES: Yes. And certainly some of the victims of the shooting here are doing well enough to communicate because Governor Rick Perry said that he talked to some of them and that he was personally struck by their commitment to service. He said here you have these victims of this terrible, violent tragedy and what they communicated to him was that they were honored to serve the country.
He also spoke to Officer Kim Munley, she was the one who was credited for stopping Hasan, you know, during the shooting, and he said that she was very modest. That she certainly is not a seeker of the spotlight and really just wants to get back to regular life.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
HAYES: Interesting to note, Fredricka, I think she's a petite person. She's only 5'4" tall, but that belies her courageous spirit and many people who know her talk about not only what she did Thursday but the other things she's done in her life that have impressed many of her friends and family.
WHITFIELD: Right. And she's a marksman. Apparently, she was a member of the S.W.A.T. team for that police department there on Ft. Hood base there. So, definitely more than qualified to get the job done.
HAYES: She's reportedly an excellent marksman.
WHITFIELD: Right. Thanks so much. Samantha Hayes, appreciate it, from Temple, Texas.
So just imagine, it was a very terrifying conversation for the wife of a soldier there at Ft. Hood to have. Melissa Berry who lives in Ohio was actually talking with her husband on the phone, Sergeant Joshua Berry, during that attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA BERRY, WIFE OF SGT. JOSH BERRY: And the only thing he said to me was, honey, there is shooting in the room I'm in, I love you. I could hear the breathing. I could tell that he was running. I could hear the gunfire. I could hear a woman's voice over what seemed to be like an intercom system saying we're being fired on, we need assistance.
People were screaming, and they just - the gunshot sounded much louder definitely, definitely much louder than the voices. You know, I just had an image of complete chaos.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Some incredible harrowing moments there. Sergeant Berry hurt his shoulder when he dove to take cover, but he escaped serious injury. We wish the best for him and all of his comrades there who endured so much.
So continue our profile, more of those killed at Ft. Hood throughout the afternoon, and those who were injured, we'll profile all of them throughout the day and the evening. We're expecting a news conference also from Ft. Hood around 5:00 Eastern time, which of course, we will be bringing you live.
And at 8:00 tonight, a look at how the Ft. Hood killings changed dozens of lives. Don Lemon hosts a CNN Special Investigations inside the Ft. Hood shootings, 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
All right. Let's talk now, I'm with former U.S. senator and Vietnam veteran Max Cleland. We invited him to talk about this because you can give us an idea of, you know, we're talking about the soldiers' psyche. You can't be in a more safe place than be on home base at Ft. Hood. So give me an idea now, what do you suppose this particular incident will do to the psyche of the soldier there? Will everyone likely be looking at one another and kind of suspecting, you know, are you all there? Is everything alright? Are you really my comrade? Do you fear that might be happening?
MAX CLELAND, AUTHOR "HEART OF A PATRIOT": That's correct.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
CLELAND: And the reasons for that is this was, indeed, a terrorist incident, whether the man involved is a terrorist or not, we don't know, but it is a terrorist incident, whether the man involved is a terrorist or not, we don't know. But it is a terrorist incident. It is full of terror. It is life-threatening. It gives a sense of powerlessness and helplessness. That is what creates post-traumatic stress disorder later.
WHITFIELD: And you know this because -
CLELAND: I do.
WHITFIELD: You've suffered from it. It's something that is the subject actually of your book "Heart of a Patriot: How I Found the Courage to Survive Vietnam, Walter Reed, and Karl Rove." And this is something we talked about a few weeks ago about really for you was a late diagnosis of PTSD, and now we're hearing this psychiatrist is somebody who helped, you know, in the mental fitness of soldiers. Might some of that kind of rubbed off on him? He's never been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan.
CLELAND: That's right. The way I see it when the war in the mind meets the war in reality, you have a flammable situation, and obviously in the mind of this individual for a long time he had been at war with what was going on. Then at Walter Reed when he was a resident there, he heard the war stories, the horror of war, and it was coming together, and then when he was faced with his own deployment, that might have set him off.
Nothing excuses, however, killing other human beings in this situation. Helpless, relatively powerless individuals, who were only doing their duty. I think we have to emphasize that these are veterans. Not just victims, but veterans. People who were doing their duty at the time that they were killed or wounded.
WHITFIELD: And trained to respond when something like this would happen, but certainly not on home base. I wonder what your thoughts are now about how the army proceeds, how this administration perceived to try to either better identify when a soldier is in trouble or perhaps even how to respond differently when a soldier says, you know what? I don't want to be deployed. I don't want to be on the front lines.
CLELAND: Well, leaders, especially combat leaders, are good at sniffing out problems with the psyche of their soldiers. You can see what happens on the battlefield. It's hard to get inside the head of a soldier. However, we have to realize now that with the war on terror coming out way, with Bin Laden and his terrorist cadre coming after us since the late '90s, culminating in the 2001 attacks, we have been at war with Al Qaeda, and so we have the war in the mind and the war in reality, and sometimes this comes together. I think that's what happened at Ft. Hood.
WHITFIELD: Does this bring it to a new level of seriousness?
CLELAND: Well, it does.
WHITFIELD: Really in recent years have we become very familiar with PTSD, everyone.
CLELAND: Well, yes. And you don't know - the regular public doesn't know how it happens. It happens when you send people to war over and over and over and over again, and when you have a war that lasts over and over and over a period of years, then you wear down people. Now, I don't think that's the case here. This is not PTSD here. This is cold-blooded murder, and the veterans -
WHITFIELD: So it would be a poor excuse to say that he could have absorbed symptoms -
CLELAND: That's correct.
WHITFIELD: - of PTSD simply because he treats people -
CLELAND: That's correct. Because there were a whole lot of other people around the nation and around the world that have treated our wonderful young soldiers. What this does is break down some trust which the Army and all of us will have to reinstitute.
But what we have to do is make sure that what we are fighting that we are focused on, and then that we have the resources to do that. If we don't have the resources to do that, we don't have the volunteer force, we don't have the willingness of our people to do that, then we better scale back our plans for fighting.
So my recommendation is keep our eye not so much on the swamp, but on the alligators in the swamp, and that's what we have to do. In the real war in Iraq and Afghanistan, particularly Afghanistan and Pakistan, and keep our eye on our own people, too.
WHITFIELD: Well, senator, in fact, when we come back, I do want to ask you a lot more about whether this incident or how this incident might impact the president's decision on whether to deploy more people to Afghanistan. Meantime, Josh Levs has also been fielding a lot of your comments from home, comments, questions by way of blog, Facebook. What are people saying, Josh?
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred. We're going to be talking about that. I want to let everyone know throughout the hour we have an opportunity for you to weigh in. We'll show you how to do that in just a second. First, let's take this aerial tour. We're going to zoom in now. I want you to see Ft. Hood, because this is where it all took place, and there's a lot you can learn. We can get a sense about what Ft. Hood is all about.
We have Google Earth. Let's go to that animation and we should be able to zoom into that area, and the Readiness Center is the key site to know about in all this because that is where the shooting took place. Just a few facts here about Ft. Hood and what to know about it. You have been hearing it is the largest - it is indeed the largest active duty armored post in the U.S. Armed Services. It's home to two full divisions. The first cavalry, also the fourth infantry division, but it also supports 12 additional units.
You got about 41,000 soldiers who work on Ft. Hood, and I was looking at some of the history there. 60 years ago these 108,000 acres of central Texas land were transformed originally into Camp Hood. Now what we're doing is we're zooming over to Killeen, Texas, and I want you to see Killeen because that's where Hasan lived, and now the story is also taking place there. We are actually able to zoom into the apartment complex where the FBI and police have been going through what he had there.
We have some video of it. Let's go to the video at his apartment. And what you will see is some of the late night from late Thursday video when authorities were piecing through it, and we have since learned more from his neighbors. We learned that the morning before the shooting, Hasan who is the alleged gunman gave away copies of the Koran and also gave away his furniture and had his place cleaned and his neighbors said they saw him throwing some things away. Just catching up on a few of the details, setting the scene there.
Let's go to this. This is how you can weigh in with your thoughts, your comments, your questions throughout the hour. We got a graphic for you. Cnn.com/fredricka or /josh. And also in Twitter and Facebook, John Levs CNN. And Fred, coming up in just minutes, I will share with you some of the comments and questions that we're getting.
WHITFIELD: Oh, excellent. We're looking forward to that. And of course, under Senator Max Cleland will be back with us too. The president warned against it. Now, big concerns about the possibilities of any back lash against Muslims, especially those in uniform.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right. We're talking this hour about the terrible shootings at Ft. Hood and learning more about the man who allegedly did it. A cousin of Nidal Malik Hasan talked about how he was unhappy in the military and felt other soldiers gave him a hard time because he was a Muslim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMAD MUNIF ABDALLAH HASAN, MAJ. NIDAL HASAN'S COUSIN (through translator): When we heard the news that Nidal killed and did the shooting, he had already told his brother that he wants to leave the Army because they bother him. They don't respect him. There was racism toward him because he's a Muslim, because he's an Arab, because he prays.
They used to see him dress in traditional Muslim clothing, so he was a bit irritated because of this. Also, the fact that they wanted to send him to Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: It's been a concern that we even heard from the president of the United States saying that its his hope that this incident certainly doesn't cause some backlash against Islamic people.
So former senator and Vietnam veteran Max Cleland back with us now. It has to be everyone's concern. We've heard a lot from the Muslim community here in this country saying we're hoping there isn't a backlash. Is it your fear that particularly within the Armed Services, those who are enlisted and those who happen to be Muslim just might get a few stares that they haven't gotten before?
CLELAND: Yes. And there will be people walking on egg shells for a while.
WHITFIELD: Yes. What does the military do about that?
CLELAND: But it is important, therefore, then to figure out what was the motive behind all this. Was it religious? Was it a terrorist motive? Was it just one guy snapping? I don't know. But it does look like it was a terrorist incident because I think for him the war in the mind, the clash of civilizations as well, as he put it and the fact that he was going to be sent as a military person into that war, into that chaos and that cauldron of hell, that he had heard the stories about it at Walter Reed, I think that caused him to focus.
Now, I don't think it's a reason why he did what he did, but I think he in his own mind gave that as an excuse and, therefore, he would go down in a flame of glory and take everybody else out with him that he possibly could, which is terrible thinking. I don't care what you have been through. That's terrible thinking.
WHITFIELD: What's your concern right now as this country now considers do we send another 40,000 troops to Afghanistan?
CLELAND: Step number one is being done by the president already, and that is to go back and look at the basic assumptions and the history of why we got into Afghanistan, to a certain extent Pakistan. Why didn't we kill or capture Osama Bin Laden when we had him trapped in the Torabora mountains, he and his staff, eight years ago? Why didn't we do that?
WHITFIELD: But since that's water under the bridge and now -
CLELAND: It is water under the bridge, but you got to go back and ask that question. Now you got to focus on what we didn't focus on eight years ago, and that is killing or capturing Osama Bin Laden and his terrorist cadre.
WHITFIELD: And you believe -
CLELAND: How do you do that - that doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot more troops on the ground in Afghanistan.
WHITFIELD: Does not necessarily?
CLELAND: No, it does not. What it does mean is it means better intelligence, working with our NATO allies, special operations, covert operations and hunter and killer teams maybe on the border of Afghanistan because the real issue is Pakistan. That's where the nuclear weapons are. That's where Al Qaeda central is, that's where Taliban central is.
WHITFIELD: Can this country afford to give Ft. Hood, in particular a break and say, you know what, we're not going to deploy from Ft. Hood right now given what everyone has been through? Because even if you weren't in that room, you had been victimized, too, if you were on base.
CLELAND: Well, teams are already en route from Walter Reed to deal with the trauma that people have gone through there. I think we need it give them a break like you would give a brigade or a combat battalion a break and say, wait a minute, time-out here, and let's make sure we're playing with a full deck here before we deploy a whole lot more troops out of Ft. Hood. But it's set up as deployment central here in America.
Keep in mind, this is not just deployment. This is going to war. So for the people involved I think that has to be looked at very seriously right now, and that goes back to the main point of what do you need to kill or capture Bin Laden and his terrorist cadre? It is not necessarily a question of boots on the ground in Afghanistan. It is a question of how do you work with your NATO allies going after the real target, going after the alligators in the swamp and not just threatening the swamp?
WHITFIELD: All right. Senator Max Cleland, thanks so much for your time and your insight on this as a tragic event. Our hearts still go out to so many people in Ft. Hood. And your book very beautiful, too, "Heart of a Patriot: How I Found the Courage to Survive Vietnam, Walter Reed and Karl Rove." I love the stories that you tell in which how to tie all these things about. But you're going to have to buy the book and read the book in order to be delighted by all that. Thanks so much.
CLELAND: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: I appreciate it.
And later on tonight a CNN primetime special continues, the search for answers in the Ft. Hood shootings. The suspected gunman, the victims, the wounded, plus what happened and could it have been prevented? A CNN special investigation inside the Ft. Hood shootings tonight at 8:00 Eastern time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: A look at our top stories right now. The suspect in a deadly shooting in Orlando, Florida, was arraigned this morning. A judge ordered Jason Rodriguez to be held without bail on a first- degree murder charge. Rodriguez is accused of killing one person in Friday's shooting spree that also left five wounded. The shootings occurred at an Orlando office where Rodriguez had once worked. And a crucial vote on the democratic health care bill could come as early as tonight. House members are debating the measure right now. It guarantees coverage for 96 percent of all Americans and includes a government-run public option plan. Debate on a Republican alternative bill is expected to begin in about an hour.
So it was built with steel salvaged from the wreckage of the World Trade Center. The "USS New York" was commissioned today at a New York City pier not far from the site of the Twin Towers. Today's ceremony started with a moment of silence for the victims of the attack that leveled the towers on September 11th, 2001.
And our second half hour, a closer look at another major story making the headlines all week long. The investigation into an accused serial killer in Cleveland. There were many signs something was wrong, so why didn't anyone do something sooner? And who is keeping watch on sex offenders?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Before the horrible shooting at Ft. Hood the arrest of an alleged serial rapist and killer in Cleveland dominated the headlines. Anthony Sowell pleaded guilty to attempted rape in a 1989 case and served 15 years in prison. He was arrested this past week after a woman accused him of rape again. As police searched his home, they discovered the bodies of ten people and the skull of an 11th victim.
Here is the latest on this case. Four of the 11 women found dead have now been identified. Authorities released the name of the fourth victim just last night. She is Nancy Cobbs and had been missing since April. Suspect, Anthony Sowell is charged with five counts of murder so far and he's being held on $5 million bail. He has not yet entered a plea.
We have a panel of guests to talk about how something like this could happen, how there could be a foul smell in the neighborhood for so long and in one actually responded. Donnita Carmichael and her sister Markeisha Jacobs join us from Cleveland. Their mother was the first victim identified through DNA. Cleveland City councilman, Zachary Reed is with us as well. His mother lives in the neighborhood. And he complained to the city about a stench in the area which ultimately was discovered to be coming from Sowell's home. And criminal profiler, Pat Brown, who has provided profiling and forensic analysis around the world for many years now.
Good to see all of you. Let me begin with you Donnita and Markeisha. What had you been thinking if the time your mother had been missing?
DONNITA CARMICHAEL, DAUGHTER OF VICTIM: Well, we knew something was definitely wrong by her not showing up.
WHITFIELD: And did you know anything about where she had been last seen? Was there anything that drew you all to this neighborhood, which happened to be the neighborhood of Anthony Sowell?
CARMICHAEL: Actually, what drew us to the neighborhood near Mr. Sowell's home was the fact that we found her vehicle within a few blocks from where he lived.
WHITFIELD: And did you know anything about who lived in that neighborhood, if there was this sex offender or anyone who was particularly suspect of having something to do with your missing mother?
MARKEISHA JACOBS, DAUGHTER OF VICTIM: No, we were not. We just knew that my mother had friends in the neighborhood. We knew nothing of Mr. Sowell or any of the sex offenders that live in the area.
WHITFIELD: OK. And Zachary Reed, I want to bring you into this now because your mother lived in the neighborhood. You actually smelled something in the air. You actually reported it apparently to authorities, and there was never a response?
ZACHARY REED, CLEVELAND CITY COUNCILMAN: Well, first of all, my mom lives one block away. And I actually did not smell the stench, but I did receive a phone call from one of my residents back in 2007 who said, councilman, there's a smell in the neighborhood, and it smells like a dead person. And my office immediately called the Health Department and asked them to check it out. And we find out two years later that she was absolutely right. There was a stench.
WHITFIELD: Two years later? So can you help me understand how it is that reports can be made to authorities and either there is a lack of response, lack of interest, or perhaps the digging just didn't go far enough?
REED: Well, that's why I'm asking for this investigation, this look into what actually led up to 11 bodies in this house, because clearly the system we have in place right now is broken, and it does not work. The police did an outstanding job of arresting this person. But in 2007, when we received the call, and now we get to 2009, we find this body. And that stench -- you understand the people I represent in that area kept telling me about this stench. And this stench that they were smelling was the stench of dead bodies for two years.
WHITFIELD: And not apparently the stench of what some thought had something to do with the sausage factory or store front nearby. But does this then speak to perhaps that broken relationship between -- and the broken trust between the people in the neighborhood and authorities? If people did do their vigilance by saying something was wrong, but apparently on the receiving end, it either wasn't taken seriously or someone didn't care?
REED: Well, I think we all know, in the African-American community, not only in Cleveland but throughout America, the relationship between the safety forces and the African-American community is not what it could and should be. There's no ifs, and, or buts about that. But by the same token, these women, although their backgrounds were not what we would like them to have been, drugs and alcohol and things along that line, they still were human beings, and they still deserve all of the dignity that all human beings want. So we've got to do a lot better. That's the reason I'm saying we have to go back and we have to look at and evaluate this situation, because clearly a system that has 11 dead people in a house is broken. And we need to do something about that system.
WHITFIELD: So Donnita and Markeisha, I wonder how frustrating it is for you to hear this, that there had been complaints for a long time that something was wrong, and we know historically there is a tough relationship between the black community and the police department. Zachary underscores Cleveland was no different. So when you hear all of this and, at the same time, grappled with now knowing something about your mother's whereabouts and her demise and what happened, how frustrating is it for you? Or does it make you even just angry?
JACOBS: It's disheartening and it makes you angry. It tears at your soul to know a human is missing, and then to find out that they've been missing so long is devastating to find out the circumstances behind the recovery of all of these victims. And the families, as well as ours, that suffer the torture that these victims apparently must have suffered. And the community is suffering because they knew but didn't know, asked for help but didn't get help. And it's just a devastation that our family members are not coming back.
CARMICHAEL: Also, to add to what my sister just said, to find out that as early as 2007 there was something that was questioned about the odor coming from this particular area around this home, and somebody didn't take a special interest, even with the Health Department going out and the sewer system being replaced and all of that, and the smell still was there. I don't work for the city council. I'm not into the politics and how all that goes, but it's still very unsettling that there wasn't a deeper, closer forensic, or whatever, look at to where this smell was coming from. I mean, 2007, our mom went missing in 2008. So if this smell was identified a year earlier, perhaps my mother as well as some of the other victims and their families in this case, this all could have been prevented.
WHITFIELD: All right. Donnita Carmichael, Markeisha Jacobs, thank you so much, and our hearts go out to you...
CARMICHAEL: Thank you.
JACOBS: Thank you for having us.
WHITFIELD: ... on this tough occasion, and learning about this sad news involving your mom. I'm so sorry for that.
And Cleveland city council member, Zachary Reed, thank you so much for your input as well. Appreciate it.
REED: Thank you very much.
WHITFIELD: And some are arguing, you know, registering sex offenders, is it enough? We will have criminal profiler Pat Brown with us right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: A look now at our top stories. President Obama will attend the memorial service Tuesday at Ft. Hood in Texas. 12 soldiers and one civilian were killed in the massacre there on Thursday. They're holding a rare Saturday session in the nation's capital on Capitol Hill. House Democratic leaders are pushing for the passage of a health care reform bill. A vote could come later today.
Iraq's parliament adjourned today without reaching agreement on a new election law. They may try again tomorrow. Iraq's various ethnic groups are haggling over the best way to make sure their votes are adequately represented. National elections are scheduled for January 16th.
This half hour, we've been talking about the terrible story out of Cleveland where the remains of 11 people have been found in the home of Anthony Sowell. He's a convicted sex offender. Who is keeping watch over other convicted sex offenders? That's the question that we've been asking.
If you have a question, head over to cnn.com/fredricka and send us your questions and your comments.
We'll be joined by criminal profiler Pat Brown after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: The grisly serial murders in Cleveland are stirring outrage in the neighborhood where the bodies were found. The remains of 11 people were discovered at the home of suspect Anthony Sowell. Members of the community question why authorities didn't investigate Sowell earlier. Their concerns were addressed at a town hall meeting yesterday attended by the city's mayor and the chief of police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICAHEL MCGRATH, CHIEF, CLEVELAND POLICE: The division of police recognizes that the families and the friends of the known victims and those families who have missing loved ones with no answer at this time, and the community, we know you're going through a very difficult and painful time. We know that. But I want to assure you, I want to assure you that as this investigation proceeds, it will be conducted in a very thorough, professional, and respectful manner.
FRNAK G. JACKSON, MAYOR OF CLEVELAND: At the end of the day, when it's all said and done, we will revisit this in the general sense to look at what happened here, how did it happen, what could we have done, what should we have done, what did we do right, what did we do wrong?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Questions a lot of people are asking. So how does something like this happen? Joining me now is criminal profiler, Pat Brown.
When I say how does something like this happen, we're talking about how do you have a case where there is a registered sex offender, and now apparently a piling up of bodies or remains. There are social workers involved who apparently check up on him. There's a stench in the air. How is it all the ingredients were there, but it gets overlooked, and it's making a lot of people wonder does this happen more often than not? You think about the Phillip Garrido case.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: It happens all the time, Fredricka, and that's really the problem. First of all, we have a completely -- let me say this. The criminal justice system really only serves criminals and their lawyers. That's where -- they're making lots of money and the criminals are getting off. Let's look at the plea bargain this guy made, Sowell made. He got convicted of attempted rape. That's not what happened. He raped the woman, choked the woman, kidnapped the woman, and she escaped from him. So really he was planning to murder here. But he was allowed to plea down to attempted rape. He was allowed to commit perjury to say he did something that he did not do.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: For 15 years?
BROWN: Right, and he only gets 15 years. Basically, we put a lie out there and everybody agrees to the lie and he's given less. When he comes out, when the police look at his record, what do they see? They see attempted rape. Well, there's a lot of guys in the neighborhood who attempted rape. A lot of guy who maybe...
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: You're almost saying that's not being taken seriously enough. Had it been a conviction on rape, perhaps he would be treated or eyes would be watching him differently?
BROWN: Exactly. First of all, the system has to get serious that any kind of stranger rape, attempted murder should be life in prison. Then you don't have the problem of, did the parole officer get out there, did the parole officer get out there and pay attention to him, because right now, we have so many sex offenders running around our neighborhoods. They can't keep up with all these guys. Most of them are low-level guys, but there are a lot of high-level guys and maybe these pled don't so they don't look so high level. You can't keep track of all them.
My theory is, you take all the ones that should be in there for life, the violent rapists, one-time violent rape, you're in for life. Now we don't have to worry about you and we don't have to pay attention to where you are.
WHITFIELD: Keeping track, very big problem whether it's the attempted, like you described, or if it's the conviction of a rape. He is a registered sex offender, however, but I guess herein lies part of the problem -- is you can have many registered sex offenders or you've got that system of a registry of sex offenders. You know where they are in the neighborhood. Then there's the other argument of some people say, you simply can't allow sex offenders to be living, cohabitating with law-abiding citizens.
BROWN: There you go. WHITFIELD: So what do you do with them then? We've seen some jurisdictions have tried to have tent cities. They have tried to have designated areas for sex offenders. But that hasn't worked either.
BROWN: Because they let them out. A violent sex offender will always be a dangerous predator. You cannot rehabilitate him so he has to stay in prison the rest of his life if he's a violent sex offender. So we can't do anything once you get out.
Here is the other problem. Maybe the authorities know where this guy lives, but this guy is wandering around the city. We're not a small group of 100 or 200 people in a little town or a small tribe some place where we know all 200 people. We can say, that guy is creepy, keep away from him. These poor women, they're walking down the street, they don't know this guy, Anthony Sowell, is dangerous as he is. He looks perfectly normal to them as they're walking by.
WHITFIELD: He's blending in like everyone else. He clearly gets a haircut, gets groceries, lives in the neighborhood.
BROWN: Exactly.
WHITFIELD: I guess a lot of these women simply didn't see it coming.
BROWN: And many think he's a little weird. There's a lot of weird people in your neighborhood. They're not violent rapists. They're just kind of a little weird. Some people are down on their luck. Some are homeless, but they're not violent rapists. So these women cannot know the difference between one and the other when they're just walking by.
WHITFIELD: Pat, we're hearing from viewers in so many different ways, blog, Facebook, phone calls, all of that. Our Josh Levs has been trying to sift through all of this.
Josh, what's the big bone of contention? What's the frustration so many people are expressing?
JOSH LEVS, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I'll summarize it for you. We are hearing from a lot of people. I think this one line in our blog from Dennis summarizes if all, as what you were just saying. Dennis says, "Who is keeping watch?" A lot of people are writing and saying, "We hear of these stories." And they're hearing what you're saying right now, you see someone walking down the street and you can't know the difference.
On behalf of the people who are asking, let me ask you this, you're a profiler. Is there something, if they feel suspicious, that they can hold onto that says, aha, this means I should be very careful? This means I should call the authorities? As a profiler, what should people pick up on?
BROWN: Well, the difficulty is they have to recognize psychopathic behavior, somebody who is manipulative, somebody who lies a lot, somebody who doesn't respect your space. You knows those guys that get into your space? But those are just suspicions about a person you're just uncomfortable with.
The real question is, what do you do to keep away from these guys. You have to be aware of your surroundings all of the time. I walk down a street, I'm looking 360 to see what's around me. If Anthony Sowell is standing on the porch, he's the clue. You're walking down, you don't go up on the porch for any reason if you do not know this man. Maybe you're going up there because he's acting sweet and he says, you want to have a drink. You go in the house. Maybe he's offering you drugs and you have a drug problem. That's an easy ruse to use. If you're a drug addict, you'll go there. Other possibilities are church lady. He's talking to her and he says, yes, I'm down on my luck, and she says, let me help you find Jesus. She has a tract with her and she just wants to go help this guy. No, don't go near this guy's porch because you don't know him. And it's sad to say that we can't be friendly with our neighbors anymore, but let's face, we can't. We have to know our neighbors' history before we go hanging around them.
WHITFIELD: That's the tricky part is trying to, like you said, discern who is normal, who isn't. You heard descriptions of Phillip Garrido, he had is own little business as well as people interacting with him all the time. Even social workers went to the home, but they didn't go to the backyard to find there was Jaycee Dugard and two children back there. It really is not cut and dry at all, but people generally are counting on the system, so to speak, to help police help keep track of people who are simply dangerous.
BROWN: Right, and they also...
WHITFIELD: When there's already a track record.
BROWN: Yes. We also think, because they're being tracked, and we think sometimes in certain places, we can go online and find out where our sex offenders live. I can do that in my area, but how often do I do that? If I look around my town, quite frankly, I have no idea where the sex offenders are. Would need to have something on top of their house, a little flag up there, and say, oh, yeah, that guys' house. I wouldn't remember.
LEVS: You just set me up perfectly because, coming up, within this hour, we will be showing you key web sites to use, some that people are telling us are working very well to help them find sex offenders in their areas.
Really quickly, in a matter of seconds, let's zoom in. I just want to show you, Fred and Pat, some things other people are saying.
We got this on Facebook from Rodney who says, "Is it possible to have sex offenders check in once a month with someone just to talk and see what's on their mind? Different states have different laws. You do find regular check-ins in many places.
Jocelyn saying, "I say we hire Lorena Bobbitt to take care of them." You can see this discussion is continuing.
Abdou here, "The best way is to go to watchdog.com and check an area and your zip code." That's not exactly the web address. I will show you the web address that a lot of people are using and a few others, including some from the government, that show where sex offenders live. You type in your area, even your zip code. It will give you a red mark along with photos of violent convicted sex offenders.
WHITFIELD: I guess, Josh, for people who don't remember Lorena Bobbitt, she is the one who took matters in her own hands, so to speak. She castrated her husband because she said he was cheating. Just to remind people.
And, Pat, just going along the lines of what you were saying, someone wrote on my blog, saying, "I think they should just be locked up forever. Don't let them back out because when they do, they end up killing when they get out."
BROWN: Absolutely.
WHITFIELD: In course with what you're saying.
BROWN: Yes. And for this guy to come in once a month to his parole officer and say, hey, how are you doing? Did you watch the football game? So what? What does that prove? A sexual psychopath knows how to lie and act real friendly. They say, yes, I'm working at a job and I'm going to church. The parole officer writes that down. Then he goes out and rapes a woman on the way home. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of, I'll tell you the truth.
WHITFIELD: Criminal profiler, Pat Brown, thank you so much for your input. Appreciate it.
BROWN: Thanks.
WHITFIELD: Josh, we'll see you again right after this, because Josh will be showing you some helpful sites on line with tips how you can protect yourself and your family from sexual offenders.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Josh Levs back with us. We've been focusing on sex offenders, who is keeping watch?
Josh now has some great resources to help you perhaps feel a little safer at home, so you know who is in your neighborhood or where the danger zones might be, right?
LEVS: Exactly. Fred, there are web sites that show where sex offenders are. It's important to take a careful look when you see them. There are different kinds of sexual offenses. I will show you a few now. As I go through them, you don't need to write anything down because, at the end, I will show you one easy to remember place that has them linked up.
Let's zoom right in. We'll start off with this first one, which is familysafetyreport.com. This is free at first. Then it becomes $30 a month. They allow you to sign up and you can submit any areas you're concerned about. They will send you an alert if a registered sex offender pops up there. They show a sample of the safety report here. This is the basic idea, it includes information about a specific area.
This one over here is familywatchdog.us. This says it's free. You type in any area -- I typed in the zip code for CNN, and everywhere you see a red square is a registered sex offender. You can click on it and get more information.
Quickly, there are also two from the government right here. This one is from the FBI. And this is a database that continues to be updated -- the sex offender public web site from the Department of Justice.
Let's go to the graphic because everything here. you can get to CNN.com/Josh. it's all linked up for you there. I've also posted it at Facebook and Twitter. Go ahead and try them. Let us know, do they work well for you? Are there others that work better for you? We have heard from people in recent weeks who are having good experiences with the web sites.
WHITFIELD: Oh, good. Thanks for helping us all navigate our way to some safety.
Thanks so much, Josh Levs, appreciate it, and, of course, Pat Brown, who was with us earlier, as well as all of our guests coming out of Cleveland and Washington earlier as well, and thanks for your comments.
Stay with us. Don Lemon will have the latest on the health care debate going on right now on Capitol Hill. A vote could still come later tonight.
Also, it was the killing that shocked the world, the young woman, Neda, gunned down on the streets of Tehran. Now her grieving mother is speaking out to CNN.
And we're monitoring the latest developments at Ft. Hood where a news conference is expected in just a few minutes.
And later, a CNN primetime special continues the search for answers in the Ft. Hood shooting. The suspected gunman, the victims, the wounded, plus, what happened, and how could it have been prevented. A "CNN Special Investigation: Inside the Ft. Hood Shootings," tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern.
I'm Fredricka Whitfield in the "CNN NEWSROOM."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
