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Nancy Grace
Wealthy Wife Fakes Kidnap to Scam Hubby
Aired November 09, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live, Florida, exclusive enclave, Ponte Vedra coast. A high-powered money man comes home to find his young wife with cover girl good looks, the mother of his two little girls, gone, vanished. Left behind, a handwritten ransom note demanding $50,000 in exchange for the life of the wife and mother, Quinn Gray. She allegedly suffers a horrific ordeal of kidnap, abuse, sex attack.
Tonight, Ponte Vedra, after $50,000 cold cash is paid, cops close in to nab the alleged kidnapper and accomplice. Kicker? It`s Mommy, Mommy herself, along with her brand-new boy toy. That`s right, they faked it. Bye-bye good times. Hello hard time, Mommy.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Sheriff`s office, 911. What`s your emergency?
QUINN GRAY: My name is Quinn Gray, and I was kidnapped, and I`m not sure where I am right now!
REID GRAY, HUSBAND: She`s not with me. She called me (INAUDIBLE) she was held by gunpoint by three men...
911 OPERATOR: Did she tell you where she was at?
REID GRAY: No.
QUINN GRAY: A hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: I know.
QUINN GRAY: Fifty thousand dollars is a lot of money. Anyway, now that I`m looking at it the way that that $50,000 is going to mean to me in the future...
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: It`s all -- that`s all...
QUINN GRAY: Either that or you just blow his head off.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: What?
QUINN GRAY: Either that or you just blow his head off.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUINN GRAY: It`s just been the most incredible ordeal to go through something like this and then in a 24-hour period to be brainwashed secretary of state significantly that you actually believe that your husband is trying to kill you, or that he`s not trying to prohibit you from being killed, I should say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
QUINN GRAY: You know? And I -- I don`t know. It was just -- it was just the craziest situation I`ve ever been in in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You tried to get money from your husband?
QUINN GRAY: Of course not! If I wanted $50,000, all I would do is take it out of the bank account.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, Maine. Police say a beautiful 2-year-old baby girl in extreme danger, baby Hailey snatched from her own home after her young mother brutally attacked. Every minute counts. Tonight, where is baby Hailey?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An Amber Alert has been issued for a 2-year-old girl in Sanford, Maine. Police say 38-year-old Gary Traynham took his little girl, Hailey, after a violent assault on her mother. Police say the pair disappeared from Sanford a little before noon and may be in the lakes region of New Hampshire. Traynham is believed to be driving a green 1998 Dodge 1500 pick-up truck with Maine plates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Live, Florida, exclusive enclave, Ponte Vedra coast. A high- powered money man comes home to find his wife, the mother of his two little girls, gone, vanished. Left behind, a handwritten ransom note demanding $50,000. After the $50,000 paid in cold cash, the cops nab the alleged kidnapper and accomplice. Kicker? It`s Mommy, Mommy herself, along with her brand-new lover. That`s right, they faked it. Bye-bye, good times. Hello, hard time, Mommy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUINN GRAY: They took me from my home, and that`s all I have to say. I would never try to take money from my husband.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: If they just knew you were here by yourself all night long with a gun...
(LAUGHTER)
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: ... they would have a fit!
(LAUGHTER)
QUINN GRAY: That`s why I`m starting to feel like I`m the sinister one, doing this to my family.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: It`s Reid, remember?
QUINN GRAY: I know.
My frame of mind was we`re going to have sex, and I`m going to have sex with him and that`s all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
QUINN GRAY: Yes, all my clothes come off. Yes, he helps me, but I`m helping, too. And I acted like I enjoyed it (INAUDIBLE) I`m not going to lie. Sometimes I always did. I knew I wasn`t going to resist him.
When this is all over, I have your word?
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: What?
QUINN GRAY: Whatever story we come up with, you stick to it.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: We both have to stick to the same story because we`re both (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
QUINN GRAY: Yes.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: OK.
QUINN GRAY: Well, I was thinking that I wasn`t even going to tell. I was going to say if they wanted me to describe any of them, I was going to be, like, No way, they`ll kill me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you have a sexual relationship with Osmanovic?
QUINN GRAY: No, I did not. I did not know him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would someone make this stuff up?
QUINN GRAY: You wouldn`t make it up because it`s the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Frank Powers with WJXT. Frank, this is a little hard to believe. What happened?
FRANK POWERS, WJXT ASSIGNMENT MANAGER: Well, the latest on this case, Nancy, is that just this morning, Reid Gray, whom investigators have called the victim in this case, was on national TV. He`s standing by his wife. He believes she was kidnapped. And then because of her mental disorder, bipolar disorder, that she bonded with the suspect and began to participate in this plot to extort $50,000 from Reid Gray.
Now, there are a number of times when they tried to arrange a ransom drop of the $50,000. It never worked out, and she was released before any of the money was exchanged.
GRACE: Take a look at these photos. She looks like Heather Locklear. She`s absolutely beautiful.
OK, to Mark Williams, anchor and reporter, also joining us out of the Florida jurisdiction. Mark, tell me the background. This guy is extraordinarily wealthy. They live there on the Ponte Vedra coast. Why did she need money? She had money. She had his money.
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR/REPORTER: Oh, she had -- she said she could go to the bank and get as much money as she needs. Her husband, Reid Gray, is a health care executive, makes over a million dollars a year.
GRACE: Well, wait a minute. Didn`t he found the company?
WILLIAMS: Yes, he did. Plus, they live in a $4 million home right along this exclusive seaside resort. She found this gentleman, this 26- year-old boy toy, as I call him, by the name of Jasmin...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait a minute! Did you say 26, 26?
WILLIAMS: He`s 26.
GRACE: OK. Go ahead.
WILLIAMS: OK. Hey, you know, I can`t make any of this up, Nancy. You know that. My credibility rides on everything. But Jasmin Osmanovic - - he and Quinn Gray cooked up this scheme to extort that $50,000. It was never delivered. Obviously, there`s audiotapes of them making love.
GRACE: Take a listen to Quinn, the alleged kidnap victim, along with boyfriend on tape.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
QUINN GRAY: I don`t think anyone in their wildest dreams would think that I could concoct something like this.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: That`s why you`re with me.
QUINN GRAY: I`m so nervous. I`m going to have to have a few more marks if I`m telling these stories, don`t you think? I`m going to be hysterical, don`t worry, because the minute I`m back into the real world without the safety net of you, I`m going to be freaking the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to the lines. Beverly in New York. Hi, Beverly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is, is I want to know why would her husband be standing by her if she wanted to blow his head off, as she said on the tape recording?
GRACE: Yes, I noticed that. Take a listen to what he just had to say in the last hours.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REID GRAY: I believe in all my heart she was kidnapped. I also believe at some point, I`m not sure exactly when, she believed that she needed to be a part of this. It was hard for me to understand when or why that happened. Devastating, to say the least. But I am standing by her now because I believe that she has a mental illness, and that`s why we are here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don`t you think this was just another episode of infidelity?
REID GRAY: That last such episode in June led to Quinn going to rehabilitation, alcohol rehabilitation, and it was that point where I made this decision that we would end this marriage unless she went forward with this. That eight weeks before this abduction were some of the best eight weeks we`ve ever had in our life. I couldn`t imagine for a second that she would have made this up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. I guess he didn`t know about the 26-year-old boyfriend. You just saw sound from NBC`s "Today" show.
We are taking your calls live. But let`s answer Beverly in New York`s question. After leading police and her own husband, much less her two little girls, on a wild goose chase with all these tearful calls about how the husband`s screwing up the money and they`re going to kill her, telling police she was sexually assaulted, beaten, brainwashed during all of this, why, Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist joining us out of New York -- why is the husband standing by her? Oh, by the way, everybody, she`s gone to a rehab facility in St. Simon`s Island, Georgia, which is really a resort. Now the husband is claiming she`s bipolar.
OK, Dr. Taylor, give me a crack at it.
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, he described himself. I think he`s in shock. He`s in denial. Everything he`s been holding onto, his whole world is crumbling around him. Also, he does apparently believe she has a bipolar disorder, and he said he didn`t want to split the family up if she indeed has a mental illness and needs him.
But I have a hard time believing that he can stand there and listen to her say, Why don`t we blow his head off, and he`s still standing right by her. It`s hard to believe.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Everybody, we`re taking your calls live. Mommy is now in a rehab facility. What about it, Ellie Jostad? What more can you tell me?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Well, as you heard her husband say in that "Today" show clip, she got treatment this past summer for alcoholism at a clinic in Minnesota. Now she`s at St. Simon`s-by-the- Sea. She was actually released on $200,000 bond. It was a million. Her attorney asked for it to be lowered so she could get this mental treatment. She`s there right now being evaluated. Don`t know when she`ll be able to go home.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Donna in Maryland. Hi, Donna.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I wanted to tell you I`ve been with you and following your pictures on the beautiful babies.
GRACE: They just turned 2 this past Wednesday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know. My birthday`s this month, too. They`re beautiful. I noticed in the audiotapes that she identified three men. She said it was three men. Did she give any description on the men? And did any of the descriptions fit maybe one of the young lovers?
GRACE: Back to you, Ellie Jostad. Didn`t at one point she ask police to go back and look at the video footage, the surveillance he video of, what was it, a Target or a Sam`s Warehouse or...
JOSTAD: Yes, it was a Publix. She actually -- and this was after she`d already been interviewed by the police. She called them and said, How come you guys haven`t gone to Publix? You know, my kidnapper went to Publix at one point. He should be on surveillance. And they said, Well, you`ve actually never mentioned that until now, but we`ll do that. They got the surveillance tape, and sure enough, she says, There`s him, there`s the guy on the tape.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
QUINN GRAY: A hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: I know.
QUINN GRAY: Fifty thousand dollars is a lot of money. Anyway, now that I`m looking at it the way that that $50,000 is going to mean to me in the future...
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: It`s all -- that`s all...
QUINN GRAY: Either that or you just blow his head off.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: What?
QUINN GRAY: Either that or you just blow his head off.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Sheriff`s office, 911. What`s your emergency?
QUINN GRAY: My name is Quinn Gray, and I was kidnapped, and I`m not sure where I am right now!
REID GRAY, HUSBAND: She`s not with me. She called me (INAUDIBLE) she was held by gunpoint by three men...
911 OPERATOR: Did she tell you where she was at?
REID GRAY: No. She was in her car. She said -- our girls go to school at Jacksonville Country Day. They`re still there. I need to go pick them up, bring them home. There`s a note on the table with the gunmen`s demands. If I call the police, the will kill her. It sounds like a frickin` movie, but it`s not.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
REID GRAY: I have to make a decision now as to whether I involve you guys or not on this. I`m not an expert at this, so -- but what she says is there`s GPS tracking of some sort -- I don`t know what`s going on -- on my car right now. There`s Gephardt tracking supposedly. And I head in any direction other than JCS (ph) and my house, they will shoot her and kill her.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: We`ve been staying in at the Emerson Inn on Phillips Highway. It was room 207. She stayed the whole night by herself. She didn`t want me to stay with her, so -- I`m going right now back to there. As you can tell, I`m driving. My radio -- right now, I`m turning it on so you can hear it. Walking up to the hotel now.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: I`m just reading this ransom note. It goes on and on and on about, Well, you can only get this amount out of this bank, but they don`t care where you get the money. She goes through about starting with $7,000, that`s good enough for right now, but they want $50,000, to wear a tight T- shirt when he comes to drop off the money.
But it doesn`t end there, does it, Ellie Jostad. After all of that, after all of that, the dad, the victim, digs up the $50,000 cold cash. He leaves it next to a Joe`s Stone cold crab, some crab shack...
JOSTAD: Right. Right.
GRACE: ... and then somebody else picks up the money.
JOSTAD: Yes. What happened is, actually, the alleged kidnappers apparently lost patience with the husband. They started dealing with the kidnap victim`s mother. She tries to drop off the money at Joe`s Stone Crab. A bunch of guys, some German exchange students from Valdosta State, actually pick up the money instead. They think it`s drug money, they freak out and call the police.
GRACE: You know, it just sounds so melodramatic. Let`s go out to the lawyers. Joining me tonight, felony prosecutor Eleanor Odom, Tamara Holder, defense attorney out of Chicago, Peter Odom, defense attorney out of Atlanta.
Eleanor, listen to this. This is her writing her mom. She`s got plenty of time to lounge around and write ransom notes about herself. "Drop the money out of the car. Don`t look back, Mother. Don`t look back." All right? It`s like Sodom and Gomorrah. Don`t look back. You`ll turn into a pillar of salt. It goes on and on and one. She says to her mom, "Put your" -- she does this to her mother. "Put your cell phone in the mailbox and drive without it. They won`t hurt you or me as long as everything goes to plan." What about it?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: You know, Nancy, this is the craziest thing I`ve ever heard, but that doesn`t mean she`s crazy. And what I`d look at is her competency at this time all this is happening. Does she know the difference between right and wrong? And clearly, from what we`re hearing, she does.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Jennifer in Pennsylvania. Hi, Jennifer. Hi, Jennifer. I think you`re there. Do you have a question for me, dear? OK. Can`t hear. Let`s go to Angela in Illinois. Hi, Angela.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, how did they get all these audiotapes if she was already kidnapped?
GRACE: OK. How did that work? Out to you, Mark Williams.
WILLIAMS: The boy toy, the 25, 26-year-old boy toy, decided to make audiotapes of them making love. And then later, they talked about...
GRACE: You know, I hate when that happens.
WILLIAMS: ... trying to get their story straight.
GRACE: Right in the middle of you trying to kidnap yourself and get $50,000 cold cash, your lover makes tapes of you having sex. Now, that kind of threw a monkeywrench in the whole thing, Mark Williams. How did they surface?
WILLIAMS: Well, they surfaced when the -- when...
GRACE: He got arrested?
WILLIAMS: What? Yes. He delivered the tapes. He says, Listen, I don`t want to get nailed on a kidnapping charge. And so he gave them the tapes, saying, Listen to them. And that`s why they were released, part of the investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... with Osmanovic?
QUINN GRAY: No, I did not. I did not know him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would someone make this stuff up?
QUINN GRAY: You wouldn`t make it up if it was the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUINN GRAY: It`s just been the most incredible ordeal to go through something like this and then in a 24-hour period to be brainwashed secretary of state significantly that you actually believe that your husband is trying to kill you, or that he`s not trying to prohibit you from being killed, I should say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
QUINN GRAY: You know? And I -- I don`t know. It was just -- it was just the craziest situation I`ve ever been in in my life, and I just want to get all the facts out there so that you guys can find him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Sheriff`s office, 911. What`s your emergency?
QUINN GRAY: My name is Quinn Gray, and I was kidnapped, and I`m not sure where I am right now!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Peter Odom and Tamara Holder. Unleash the lawyers. Peter Odom, say you`re the defense attorney. Did you see your client talking to police? Her story gets more and more bizarre...
PETE ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Always a bad idea.
GRACE: ... how after only 24 hours, she starts identifying with her kidnappers?
PETER ODOM: Right. Always a bad idea to talk to the police this early in an investigation. First thing I would have told her is, Don`t say anything. Let`s see what the police have against you, and you know, maybe we`ll respond, maybe we won`t. She`s not helping herself with all these things that she`s saying. I will say this, though, Nancy. Everything we are hearing from her points to some pretty significant delusional behavior.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Everybody, you`re seeing family photos from Gray`s FaceBook page.
Peter Odom, I want to look you in the face when you say that. What it says to me, while she was having all that sex with her boyfriend and talking about him shooting her husband`s head off, sounds to me like she wanted to make a quick $50,000 instead of getting a job, like you work hard. You work long hours and weekends.
Eleanor, I know how hard you work, especially when you`re prosecuting a death penalty case. Tamara, I`m sure your practice of law is no walk in the roses. So long story short, she didn`t want to work. She wanted her husband to fork over $50,000. She gets the cash, then she just divorces him.
PETER ODOM: But Nancy, she could have had millions of dollars for the asking. Just the fact that she`s asking for $50,000 from...
GRACE: She wasn`t...
PETER ODOM: ... from her millionaire husband...
GRACE: ... a millionaire.
PETER ODOM: ... is delusional.
GRACE: Her husband is a millionaire, Tamara.
TAMARA HOLDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I agree that this boy toy has some supernatural powers, you know, that...
GRACE: Please put...
HOLDER: ... to brainwash within 24 hours...
GRACE: ... Holder`s face on the screen. I want to see this.
HOLDER: No, he has supernatural powers or something. But the seriousness of this case, Nancy, is...
GRACE: Think about her two children as you`re yukking it up.
HOLDER: ... this woman has a pattern -- this woman has a pattern of mental illness, alcoholism...
GRACE: What pattern? What pattern?
HOLDER: ... cheating. It does not end here.
GRACE: What pattern, Tamara?
HOLDER: Alcoholism. Alcoholism. Treatment.
GRACE: You said mental illness.
HOLDER: (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: You said mental illness.
HOLDER: Well, she was treated in rehab.
GRACE: That`s not mental illness.
HOLDER: They go hand in hand, Nancy.
GRACE: What mental illness, Tamara Holder?
GRACE: She -- it`s undiagnosed. She needs to be diagnosed.
GRACE: Yes! There is none!
HOLDER: She was released without being diagnosed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: started kissing on my ear and my neck, and.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: How did you react at that point?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just -- I kind of reacted just still at first, you know? A little bit still. And then I started to act like I enjoyed it a little bit. And he started to kiss me and.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: Well, what was your frame of mind at that point? What`s going through your mind when this was happening?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My frame of mind was we`re going to have sex. And I`m going to have sex with him, and that`s all. Yes, all my clothes come off.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. He helps me, but I`m helping, too. And I acted like I enjoyed it. And I`m not going to lie. Sometimes I almost did. I knew I wasn`t going to -- to resist him. So I tried to make it the best possible. You know? And he would just over and over and over and over and over and over again, and sometimes I would -- I would say what he wanted me to say and do whatever he wanted me to do.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: There was a mole on the back of his neck. Have you told anybody else that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew he was moley. He had moles. You know? But not a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: Did you see him with no shirt on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. There was nothing distinguishable. His nipples weren`t very dark.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: OK. Why did you see him with no shirt on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because we were -- we had sex a lot.
911 OPERATOR: Sheriff`s Office 911. What`s your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Quinn Gray, and I was kidnapped, and I`m not sure where I am right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s definitely participating. I`m not sure after four days of being with this person what she believes and what she doesn`t believe. But I agree with you, there are times when I just want to shut it off and be finished with the whole thing. But I have to remember that there are many times when I heard his voice and him saying things that I believe he knew I would hear this audiotape at some point as well.
MATT LAUER, HOST, "TODAY" SHOW: If you go under the assumption that she didn`t know she was being recorded, that makes her sound guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As guilty as can be. It`s probably the most hurtful, devastating words I`ve ever heard. I think of my children. I think of myself. And I think of how this is going to affect their lives going forward. And I know at that point when I heard that I was so shocked that I knew something was wrong. I knew something was definitely wrong. That person that I knew so well would go to the extent of talking about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: That last sound was from NBC`s "Today Show." Let`s go back to the lawyers. But first, to Lisa Lockwood, former police detective, author of "Undercover Angel." What do you make of this? An entire faked kidnapping where she tried to rip off her husband of $50,000. Forget about the two little girls.
LISA LOCKWOOD, FORMER POLICE DETECTIVE, AUTHOR OF "UNDERCOVER ANGEL": Have you ever heard the saying "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned?" That`s what I believe this is about. This is.
GRACE: What.
LOCKWOOD: This is a woman who was after her husband. Revenge.
GRACE: For what?
LOCKWOOD: To make him suffer for his affair.
GRACE: OK. Hold on just a moment. Let`s backtrack. Tell me about the affair.
LOCKWOOD: He allegedly had an affair before she went into rehab with a Spanish woman. And these were written in a few of the letters. It was disclosed that she was envious of this. And this is her way of getting the money back.
If you watch her physicality and her tonality in those interviews you clearly see this is a woman who is extremely calculating and was deceptive.
GRACE: You know, that`s a really interesting take on it, Lisa Lockwood. I didn`t really put that much stock in the whole theory of the husband`s affair. But maybe you`re right. With us, Lisa Lockwood, former police detective, author of "Undercover Angel."
Marc Klaas, what`s so disturbing to me is that while she was leading her husband, her children, and all the police on a wild goose chase, there were legitimate kidnaps, legitimate children missing calls that were not getting the cops` full attention while they were dealing with the Heather Locklear look-alike.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Yes, that`s absolutely true. There`s three points I`d like to make. Number one, Nancy, if alcoholism or mental illness were a justification or excuse for committing crime, then we`d have to open the doors of every prison in the United States and let every one of those inmates out.
Secondly, we don`t have kidnapping for ransom in the United States. It was mentioned by the husband in this that it sounded like a bad movie plot. Well, it is a very bad movie plot. Notwithstanding Hollywood, these things don`t happen. The last time there was a fake ransom like that was in the JonBenet case, another long, rambling note which we know was fake because the little girl was dead in her -- in the basement.
Now, the real concern here, though, for people in my industry is the whole idea of faking kidnappings. What that does is it creates cry wolf scenarios so that the next time something like that happens there`s a cynicism on the part of the public, or very -- well could be a cynicism on the part of the public about whether or not.
GRACE: I agree.
KLAAS: . that kidnapping is an actual kidnapping or not. Not to mention the resources that are taken away from legitimate situations.
GRACE: Back to the lawyers. Eleanor Odom, Peter Odom, Tamara Holder.
Peter Odom, what about her telling the cops? And this is obviously a voluntary statement. "I tried to make it the best possible sex ever over and over and over again." Then she goes on -- and this is a new one on me. I`ve heard a lot of descriptions of a lot of perps. She describes his nipples. Peter? Thoughts?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy -- Nancy, in the recordings that we`re hearing, you know, it was the perpetrator, the so-called kidnapper, maybe hoax kidnapper, that decided what to record, not the victim in this case, Miss Quinn. So you have to wonder what`s going on during the times when he`s not taping himself.
We`ve heard of Stockholm syndrome, where sometimes kidnapping victims actually.
GRACE: Wait, wait. Wait, wait. Put him back up.
P. ODOM: . identify with kidnappers.
GRACE: Hey, hey, Peter. There`s no kidnapping, so there`s no Stockholm syndrome. OK? There was no kidnapping. That was her with her lover. OK? You do get it, right? She was never kidnapped, Peter Odom, so there`s no...
P. ODOM: This case still has questions all over it, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, could you explain to me, Peter Odom since there`s no kidnapping how there was.
P. ODOM: He had some power over her. He had some power over her. He had some power over her but we haven`t explored yet.
GRACE: Yes, I heard you the first four times you said that. To you, Tamara. Maybe I can get it out of you. Since there`s no kidnapping, how could there be a Stockholm syndrome where you start to identify with your kidnappers?
TAMARA HOLDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think there`s a Stockholm syndrome here.
GRACE: Yes.
HOLDER: But I do think that the woman has mental problems and.
GRACE: Well, let`s talk about that just one moment.
HOLDER: . and alcoholism -- I`m sorry.
GRACE: Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health, Johns Hopkins, let`s explore Tamara Holder`s theory. Now we know she went into rehab this past summer for alcoholism at a very ritzy rehab. Nothing wrong with that. But what about the theory that she had an untreated, undiagnosed mental disorder?
That`s what the husband is saying. And then in the last hours he says yes, she`s bipolar. She`s never been diagnosed or treated for that.
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: I`m glad you`re making the distinction, Nancy, between behavioral problems and psychiatric illness.
Psychiatric disease, those are problems with pathways in the brain that result in behaviors that have a clear pattern. Paranoia, schizophrenia, behaviors which meet clear-cut diagnoses. Addiction, manipulation, extortion, those are not psychiatric behaviors. And they don`t fit any of the criteria for known psychiatric conditions.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Kim in Georgia. Hi, Kim.
KIM, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
KIM: I would like to know is it possible that she`s going to be charged in this case?
GRACE: Oh, Kim in Georgia. She will be charged in this case. What I don`t understand is how they let her go to a fancy rehab instead of sitting behind bars. That`s what I don`t get, Eleanor Odom.
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: I agree, Nancy. First of all, let`s start with false report of a crime, and then we`ll go on from there. Some of her terroristic threats and whatnot. But you know she`s going to be charged as an accomplice to this fake kidnapping.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live, but I want to go back to Frank Powers.
Frank, what more can you tell me about the case? Is the husband still standing by her at this hour?
FRANK POWERS: He has remained steadfast in her support, Nancy.
GRACE: And to you.
POWERS: Go ahead.
GRACE: Go ahead, dear.
POWERS: The reason that we see a lot of interest in this case -- this case has really gone global. You also have a lot of pressure from the law enforcement community. We`re talking about that earlier. They spent about $200,000 that weekend, both state, local, and federal officials, looking for her. And they`re not too happy about that.
GRACE: To you, Mark Williams, why did the judge let her go to a fancy posh rehab at St. Simon`s Island?
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR/REPORTER, COVERING STORY: Well, they thought probably -- more than likely that was the best thing to do in this case since the issue of her possible bipolar disease cropped up. So they put her there.
GRACE: OK. That`s complete B.S.
Everybody, as we go to break, happy 100th birthday to Georgia friend of the show, Miss Sybil Marsh Bateman. A faithful member of Makado Baptist Church, proud mother of three sons, Billy, Ken, Bobby. Mrs. Bateman never misses a show.
Happy birthday, Miss Sybil.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police issuing an Amber Alert for a missing 2- year-old girl taken by her father this morning in Sanford, Maine. Police believe 2-year-old Hailey Traynham was taken from her mother`s home by 38- year-old Gary Traynham. Authorities say the two may be in the lakes region of New Hampshire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Dennis Hoey, reporter with the "Portland Press Herald" and "Maine Sunday Telegram." Dennis, this is the only Amber Alert out of the state of Maine. What happened?
DENNIS HOEY, REPORTER, PORTLAND PRESS HERALD; MAINE SUNDAY TELEGRAM; COVERING STORY: That`s correct, Nancy. It`s the first Amber Alert ever issued by the state of Maine since it was implemented seven years ago. What we do know is that Maine state police and Sanford police issued an Amber Alert around 5:00 this evening for 2-year-old Hailey Traynham, who was abducted from her apartment by her biological father, Gary Traynham.
The parents, Gary and Lisa Gould, are the biological parents, but we`re not certain whether they`re married or not. And they`re still searching for Mr. Traynham, who is believed to be in the lakes region of New Hampshire.
GRACE: Stacy Newman, our producer on the story. Stacey, what more can you tell me? What can you tell me about the little girl?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: This little girl, 2-year-old baby Hailey -- cops believe she is in extreme danger tonight, Nancy. Why? Because her mother was violently assaulted moments before she was snatched and taken by her biological father.
GRACE: OK. Back to Dennis Hoey. Dennis, I know this is the only Amber Alert out of the entire state of Maine. And it is a parental kidnap. A lot of people don`t take that as seriously as other like stranger abductions. What do we know about the father, Dennis?
HOEY: We know that the father, Nancy, is her biological father, but I`m pretty certain right now from what police have been telling me that he is not married to the victim, Lisa Gould. That`s the mother of the girl.
He lives in Kennebunk, which is a town near Sanford, with his parents. And he has a child, a 12-year-old child, by a prior marriage who does not live with him and his parents.
GRACE: So he doesn`t have -- whoa, whoa, did you say him and his parents?
HOEY: He lives with his parents in Kennebunk.
GRACE: He`s 38 years old and he lives with his parents?
HOEY: Correct.
GRACE: OK. He does not have custody of either of the two children, and we know there was a brutal assault on little Hailey`s mother. And then he took the girl and left.
Out to Marc Klaas. He is the president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Marc, what do you make of it? And why is it that when we have a so-called parental abduction it`s taken less seriously than stranger on stranger abductions?
KLAAS: Well, it`s not really taken less seriously, but it`s thought that the children are not in nearly as much danger as they are in a stranger or predatory type of situation. But I have to say, Nancy, that if this woman was violently beaten at 11:00 in the morning it makes no sense that they would wait almost six hours before activating the Amber Alert.
That tells me it`s a failed alert for the simple reason that children who are murdered as a result of an abduction, 76.2 percent of them will be dead within the first three hours. This should have been called immediately.
GRACE: And Marc, how does that break down? How does that break down to parental abductions? Same stats apply?
KLAAS: Yes. Absolutely. Children that are murdered as a result of an abduction. That`s across the board.
GRACE: And you know what else, Marc? At some point the kidnapper, if he believes that cops are on to him, could very well kill himself and the child. They never just kill themselves, Marc. Never. That never happens. They kill the mother, they kill the child. They throw the child off a bridge when they`re about to be apprehended. I believe that`s why cops think this is so dangerous.
KLAAS: Yes. I completely agree with you. They need to find this guy, and they need to find him fast. They should have gotten this alert out much sooner than they did.
GRACE: What do you think the problem was?
KLAAS: I have no idea. But basically, the way the Amber Alert is established and set up in this country there is this built-in delay. The original intent of the Amber Alert in Texas in 1996 was very different from the thing that it`s transmortified into here now in 2009.
GRACE: I want to go out to Dr. Marty Makary. Dr. Makary, we have seen this scenario play out so many times. And you on your end at the hospital, what is your concern tonight?
MAKARY: Well, there are certain characteristic injuries that this person`s at risk for, and dehydration and malnutrition compound the potential risk of those injuries, causing long-term problems with development. We`re talking about learning disabilities down the road. We`re talking about long-term problems that could come from a major trauma, psychologically and physically at this time.
GRACE: Dr. Makary, that`s if the girl lives through this ordeal. What I`m concerned about is what this guy`s going to do when he realizes cops are on to him.
Let me tell what I know about this. Gary Traynham, age 38. He`s 5`11", 230 pounds, balding brown hair. Can we show a picture of him, Liz? A picture in full since we`re describing him right now. Hazel eyes, dark goatee, which is not pictured here. Maybe in the lakes region of eastern New Hampshire.
We believe he`s driving a `98 green Dodge pickup truck with a Maine license plate 8629 N, Nancy, B, Bermuda. 8629 NB. The tip line, 207-324- 3644. After a brutal attack on the little girl`s mother the child is reported missing.
Out to the lines, Laura in Florida. Hi, Laura.
LAURA, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
LAURA: First of all, I just wanted to say your twins are beautiful, and we watch your show every night.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you for calling in. What`s your question, dear?
LAURA: What is the status of the mother? Is she going to live?
GRACE: Good question. What about it? Dennis Hoey joining us from "Portland Press Herald" and "Maine Sunday Telegram." What do you know about the mom`s condition?
HOEY: The mother, Nancy, was -- being treated tonight at a hospital in Sanford for her injuries and is expected to recover from her injuries and be released sometime later tonight.
GRACE: So she`s still in the hospital?
HOEY: The police would not describe the nature of the assault other than that it was a violent assault.
GRACE: OK. Out to the lines, Amber, Ohio. Hi, Amber.
AMBER, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question? .
AMBER: I have a question. If a stranger to stranger abduction is so dangerous, if this father beat her mother, what makes the cops think that he`s not going to do it to this little girl?
GRACE: Well, you know what? I don`t think anything -- if he will do this to the mother of his child, what will he do to a helpless little girl?
Stacey Newman, does this guy have a record that we know of?
NEWMAN: Well, as we go to air, we were not able to dig up a record on this guy. But wouldn`t be surprised if something did pop up, Nancy.
GRACE: So no record right now but we do know cops are saying, this child is in extreme danger. She is only 2 years old. Shoulder length blond hair, blue eyes.
Take me down off the screen please. Let`s show her in full so the viewers could take a look at her. She weighs around 35 to 50 pounds. Father allegedly assaulted the mom, brutally, and took off with the little girl around 11:15 a.m. today. Out of Sanford, Maine.
Tip line, 207-324-3644. Please be on the lookout. A 98 green Dodge pickup, Maine license plate, 8629 N, Nancy, B, Bermuda.
Very quickly to tonight`s "Salute the Troops." Texas friend Angela Gaffner saluting her son, Army Specialist Corey Gaffner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA GAFFNER, ARMY SPECIALIST COREY GAFFNER`S MOTHER: Angela Gaffner of Phoenix, Texas. Specialist Corey Gaffner`s mom. And I want to say that I am so proud of my son for representing our country. I just want to tell my son to stay strong and be safe and I want to let him know that I love him very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: An Amber Alert has been issued for a 2-year- old girl in Sanford, Maine. Police say 38-year-old Gary Traynham took his little girl Hailey after a violent assault on her mother. Police say the pair disappeared from Sanford a little before noon, and may be in the lakes region of New Hampshire. Traynham is believed to be driving a green 1998 Dodge 1500 pickup truck with Maine plates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live but I`m hearing in my ear right you now, to Stacey Newman. I understand there`s news?
NEWMAN: Yes, Nancy. Right now, this has just come in crossing the wire. There are reports of a sighting of Traynham him and little Hailey in Alton, New Mexico. This is about 31 miles from Stanford where the little girl was abducted and her mom allegedly assaulted. So it seem like this Amber Alert is actually working.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas. Marc, you and I both know that minutes count, minutes count. You`re the one that first told me the statistics. After about three hours, whether it is a parental abduction or stranger abduction, the child is dead. For whatever reason. Weigh in.
KLAAS: Well, you know if this is true, if they have been located in Alton, and..
GRACE: Sighted. Sighted. It`s a sighting.
KLAAS: Well, OK, Sighted. If she`s located and she`s recovered alive, it`s a wonderful thing. But the Amber Alert needs to be tweaked. The criteria needs to be changed. We don`t need this kind of central notification. Local authorities.
GRACE: OK. Guys, in the last minutes that I have you, I`m going to give you the tip line, 207-334-3644. 207-334-3644. There is a sighting of this kidnapped child, Alton, New Hampshire. Please take a look at little Hailey. According to police, her life depends on it.
Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Thomas Vandling, Jr., 26, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, killed, Iraq. Studied at University of Pittsburgh on a second tour. Awarded the Bronze Star, two Purple Hearts, Army Commendation Medal.
Loved sports, skiing, tae kwon do, reading, dreamed of traveling to Australia. Leaves behind parents Thomas and Diane, brothers, James and Michael, sister Elizabeth.
Thomas Vandling, Jr., American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. And a special welcome back from our hearts to our supervising producer, Elizabeth. She has been gone in order to welcome her brand you new baby boy. Congratulations.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
