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Joy Behar Page
Carrie Prejean Sex Tape; Interview With Carrie Fisher
Aired November 10, 2009 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, first David Letterman, now Carrie Prejean; all caught with their pants down. What`s up with celebrity sex scandals? Who`s next? Will Big Bird shed his feathers for a little cock-a-doodle-doo? We`ll discuss.
Then, Carrie Fisher went from movie star parent, to "Star Wars", to the star of stage and screen herself. She`s onboard right now with her new hit show "Wishful Drinking." She`ll join me in the studio.
And at Fort Hood, it seems the Army knew that the alleged shooter presented a problem but did nothing about it. Was it because he was Muslim and they didn`t want to appear politically incorrect?
All that and more right now.
Ok. Former Miss California, Carrie Prejean, the one who is anti-gay marriage admits she has a solo sex tape; "all by myself," she says. Just as she`s doing the media rounds to plug her new book, coincidence?
Joining me to discuss the sex escapades are Paula Shugart, President of Miss Universe, comedian Rich Vos and Ashleigh Banfield, host of "Open Court" on TRUTV.
All right now, first of all. Why are there so many sex tapes out, guys? I mean, you have a few of them, all these celebrities ARE doing sex tapes. It sort of raises their profile.
RICH VOS, COMEDIAN: It`s like plugging a gig. It gets you out there.
BEHAR: Plugging a gig.
VOS: I don`t know how -- I don`t know how anybody would make a sex tape when it`s going to get out. Like I would never put myself -- I don`t even want to see myself naked when I`m shaving. I put a towel around my waist. You know what I mean?
BEHAR: Yes, but these girls seem very narcissistic. I mean, they`re gorgeous girls. She was on "The View" today and I spoke to her this morning about her sex tape.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: When you made the tape. You have photos of yourself. You didn`t go along with the morals clause which is in the pageant`s rules and yet, you say that you`re a victim. I don`t totally buy it.
CARRIE PREJEAN, FORMER MISS CALIFORNIA: Did you see the attacks that I was under? Did you see the names that I was called? I want to ask you. Do you?
BEHAR: Some of it. Yes.
PREJEAN: Really and what do you think of that?
BEHAR: I thought it was ok for you to say your piece of mind. And I said that on the show.
PREJEAN: Thank you. Because I think that every American...
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I also wonder you say you`re Palinized as a victim.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Yes, there`s a lot of the victimization in the way she`s approaching this, Paula, right?
PAULA SHUGART, PRESIDENT, MISS UNIVERSE: True, classic victim.
BEHAR: Why do they go there? And she puts herself with Sarah Palin who`s also "poor me", you know, do you think its victimization? Is it hypocrisy? What is it that going on with her?
SHUGART: Well, I think that -- and the only reason I`m here is because I`m fed up with this hypocrisy and I`ve lived this for months. And I was out of the country until last night. And then when I saw that she -- Mr. Trump who bent over backwards and defended her even when she was caught in lie after lie and for her to take him on today I think -- if you want to sell your book...
BEHAR: What did she do with him? Tell us what she did?
SHUGART: Well, she just totally lied and really did not tell the truth about things behind the scenes in the pageant. She put it more in a way to make herself look good.
But honestly, if you want to sell a book, if you put Donald Trump`s name into it and that`s the best way to; and I think that that`s why I`m here.
But I just so -- enough already; it is -- this was not about her answer. It was about the fact that she was absolutely impossible to work with when we tried to make things -- make it work out...
BEHAR: At the pageant?
SHUGART: At the pageant and right afterwards she...
BEHAR: She`s a very tough cookie. I found her to be tough in the interview today with her.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, "ASHLEIGH BANFIELD: OPEN COURT": I`m going say something...
BEHAR: Yes.
BANFIELD: ... about George W. Bush which I rarely have said before. He was absolutely right in that whole Dixie Chicks argument when he say freedom of speech is just that. You have the freedom to say what you want but it doesn`t mean you`re devoid of the consequences.
So when Carrie Prejean puts herself out there with an argument, or a statement or a book or anything else, she has to face the music. The more you put yourself out there, the more you`re going to get criticized.
BEHAR: What it has to do with the Dixie Chicks again?
BANFIELD: Well, they said what they said about President Bush.
BEHAR: Yes.
BANFIELD: But they weren`t proud of him being their president and people were smashing their CDs.
BEHAR: Right.
BANFIELD: And President Bush said you have the right to say what you want and sing what you want, but people will smash your CDs and they have the right to, too.
BEHAR: Well, that`s what happened to her.
BANFIELD: So with Carrie Prejean, she has the right to say and do what she wants to do.
BEHAR: Right.
BANFIELD: As long as it`s not libel, ok? But people are going to criticized her, so she can`t claim victim if she`s going to talk. The more you talk the more you`re criticized.
VOS: Well, I would rather see her video than read her book any day. I mean, who wants to read her dumb book? Who cares about her?
(CROSSTALK)
SHUGART: And I`m not going to comment one way or another if that exists. But my only thing on it is the first photo that came out...
BEHAR: The seminude photo.
SHUGART: The first -- the seminude photo where she told us flat-out she was 17 at the time...
BEHAR: Yes.
SHUGART: ... which is -- and we ended up -- I have an e-mail from a pageant consultant she`s absolutely lying on this. This was taken in February before the pageant, she was 21.
Ok fine, then we go to the press conference. I have an e-mail, is there anything else -- is there anything else we need to know about? Nothing. Absolutely not. Then the morning of the press conference the famous, the wind blew my top open photo, happened and it`s...
BEHAR: The wind blew my top open. It`s like my dog ate my homework?
SHUGART: Kind of, because I`m on a talk show having to, ok, do you believe that that really happened? Well, it`s -- it`s some time you have to be responsible and...
BEHAR: Well, you think she`s lying?
SHUGART: I definitely think...
BEHAR: She says that she was 17 in that photo, the seminude picture you`re talking about. And then in the e-mail, I guess to you, right...
SHUGART: It`s our California director, yes.
BEHAR: So the California director she says that this was taken recently. And she was 21 at the time. So her math is a little fuzzy math I think.
BANFIELD: It may or may not be.
But I`ll tell you something, whoever took the pictures and leaked those pictures, they may very well be her best ally at this point because if she was under age, they`re going to hold back any e-mails that prove anything because they could be in possession of child pornography. They could have disseminated child pornography.
So she, on the other hand, if she was underage, she might want to leak an e-mail or two from when she sent this to prove that she was underage.
BEHAR: Do you believe that, that she was underage? Do you believe that?
VOS: I don`t -- first of all I don`t believe that anybody should even care that you would think there`s some dysfunction when it comes to beauty pageant contestants. Come on they start off little kids, their parents are making them -- you know pose. Of course, you`re going to grow into dysfunction...
BEHAR: Well, we don`t know if she was in the Jon Benet category.
VOS: Let`s just say that for the joke. Ok.
BEHAR: Ok, go ahead, go on yes.
VOS: And I`m saying, it`s pure dysfunction in my opinion anyhow. I mean, everybody has a past history. Do you guys feel any attraction towards me? You know what I`m saying?
BEHAR: I don`t think they are.
BANFIELD: I think you should be in the contest.
BEHAR: But do you think she`s also --she also says that this sex tape, which by the way, Rich, she did it alone. Does that turn you on at all in your imagination?
VOS: Well, I`m thinking somebody that hot is doing it alone is how bad was her personality that she couldn`t get somebody to join her? I mean...
SHUGART: That`s a good point.
BANFIELD: Who was taking the pictures? I want to know. She was by herself, who was manning the zoom and the pan?
BEHAR: Well, you can just set it up and take it without anybody in the room.
BANFIELD: The zooms and the pans? From what I`ve heard?
BEHAR: The zooms and pans you can`t.
SHUGART: And I`m not at liberty to comment on anything except prior to our mediation. So I just want to be -- I`m not commenting on tapes that whether they exist or not. I just want to be clear at this point.
BEHAR: Well, it exists. I mean, she`s acknowledged that it exists. What she`s saying is that she was 17. But nobody -- how do we know that she was 17? She`s the only one in the room.
BANFIELD: This is also very stupid of her to do this. Because there have been some teenagers in New Jersey who were charged with possession of child pornography for simply having photographs of themselves on their own personal phones.
Now, legally there`s an issue with privacy there and that could be very well be argued.
SHUGART: Right.
BANFIELD: But they were charged.
SHUGART: Right.
BANFIELD: She could be charged not only with taking those dirty pictures of herself but sending them to someone. If she was 17, she was under age...
SHUGART: Right.
BANFIELD: ... and there could be a crime committed in.
VOS: Well, if she wasn`t going to be charged, you are planting the seed now.
SHUGART: Ok.
VOS: So I`m sure she`s real happy about that.
BANFIELD: All children watching should know, don`t do this.
VOS: Yes.
SHUGART: Definitely don`t do that. But honestly, we have a morals clause and aside from the morals clause and photos and everything else, lying. I mean, the hypocrisy and the lying and you play the victim...
BEHAR: She doesn`t really understand why people are mad at her. She says when she was on the show this morning, she says, look, all I did was give my opinion about gay marriage and then, they went after me.
SHUGART: Yes and then it`s classic victim.
BEHAR: But does she have any kind of validity in that statement?
SHUGART: I think she was absolutely right in being able to express her opinion.
BANFIELD: Right.
SHUGART: And nobody comments on this first part of the answer when she said I`m glad I live in a country where you can choose between same-sex marriage and opposite marriage.
BEHAR: I know that`s she does get around.
SHUGART: Because that`s not true.
BEHAR: Well, that`s because she`s not that bright.
BANFIELD: And she also said I think her grandfather died on the beaches of Normandy to protect her free speech. And I kind of wanted to say, like clause to the set and say no, that was so you wouldn`t be jailed for free speech.
VOS: No.
BANFIELD: But you have to suffer consequences for some of the speech that some people find...
BEHAR: She was going...
VOS: People don`t...
BEHAR: Go ahead.
VOS: People don`t know this but her grandfather on the beach was with a man that night.
BEHAR: Oh nude.
VOS: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok she was on the "Today Show" this morning. Let`s watch what she did there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PREJEAN: Conservative women are under attack for whatever it is. I mean, if Sean Hannity went out there and said some of the things that Keith Olbermann has said about me, you know, if he said anything about Sonia Sotomayor or Michelle Obama he would be off the air. Why is there this double standard?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. First of all, Sotomayor did not make a sex tape as far as I know.
BANFIELD: That we know of.
BEHAR: That we know of. That`s true. I don`t want to jump to conclusions here. But it looks like she might not.
VOS: Ok.
BEHAR: And neither did the (INAUDIBLE), they`re all bright and neither did Hillary Clinton and of these people.
BANFIELD: Again, these are all pre-digital people -- you`re being very unfair.
VOS: Yes.
BANFIELD: They`re pre-digital, those folks.
BEHAR: But don`t you think that some of this, the attack is because she`s a conservative right wing chick who is saying things like, you know...
BANFIELD: Vanessa Williams had the you-know-what kicked out of her when she did this...
BEHAR: She`s against gay marriage and she`s a conservative girl and then she does a sex tape which goes against that sort of Christian upbringing a little bit. So the hypocrisy is what people are hanging on to here. It`s not the free speech issue because I`ll back her on that.
BANFIELD: I don`t believe it`s a conservative issue. Because look at Vanessa Williams. She`s parlayed that into a terrific career. But way back when 20 years ago when we were all talking about her and her dirty pictures when she got her title, she was excoriated.
I don`t think she`s so conservative or liberal. I don`t think that`s an issue. The issue was you stood up there and said you`re perfect and you weren`t so perfect.
BEHAR: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But it has nothing to do with her positions as a conservative against gay marriage? You don`t think that has anything to do with it?
BANFIELD: I think it was some of that but I don`t think that she`s completely victimized because she`s conservative. I think it`s hypocritical...
BEHAR: I think that if she came out and she said I love the idea of gay marriage, I`m very liberal and pro choice and then she was in a sex tape, nobody would care.
BANFIELD: No. She was in a pageant and a sex tape, everybody cares.
BEHAR: That was the other thing; she really violated the morals clause in the pageant`s...
(CROSSTALK)
SHUGART: Honestly the fact, then she turns around and turns on Mr. Trump which he...
BEHAR: Mr. Trump can take care of himself.
SHUGART: Yes. I guess -- you`re biting the hand that really took good care of you.
BEHAR: I always say, don`t bite the hand that brings you to orgasm.
Thanks to my panel.
Up next, she was an action figure, a Pez dispenser and sex doll. Princess Leia, also known as Carrie Fisher will join me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRISON FORD, ACTOR: I can`t hold them off forever.
CARRIE FISHER, ACTRESS: Do you have a plan for getting out?
FORD: What the hell are you doing?
FISHER: Somebody has to save us kids. Into the garbage chute, fly boy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know her as Princess Leia from "Star Wars" but there`s a lot more to Carrie Fisher than that white gown and really weird hair. She`s a hilariously funny writer, who in her new play, managed to turn her dysfunctional life story into a delight.
With me now is Carrie Fisher, the creator and star of the new Broadway show, "Wishful Drinking".
Hi Carrie.
FISHER: Hi there.
BEHAR: I love the show. I love the show. Everyone should go see it because it`s just a wonderful -- but you know, everybody loves you as Princess Leia. That`s how people watching this will say, oh, who are not in New York right now.
FISHER: My grandparents actually named their poodle Princess Leia and it was hit by a car, so I have mixed associations that way.
BEHAR: I can see where that would be an issue. They have a Pez dispenser for Princess Leia...
FISHER: Shampoo.
BEHAR: Shampoo and a sex doll which you showed in the...
FISHER: It`s advertised as a sex doll but I do not understand. There must be something about sex that I don`t understand that`s new because the doll is cement. So I don`t find that erotic. Maybe if there`s someone out there that could suggest how that can be erotic, let me know.
BEHAR: Maybe bricklayers like it or something.
FISHER: Bricklayers. I see. Oh.
BEHAR: The mind. You complained about Princess Leia because -- a little bit I think -- when I`ve watched you, because people know you as Princess Leia.
FISHER: I do it in fun, though.
BEHAR: It`s fine. It was a great thing for you, right?
FISHER: Oh God, yes. I mean, you know, it`s a fantastic movie and children loved it and everybody, you know? It`s wonderful.
BEHAR: Yes.
Now, let`s go to the pathology, which I love the story of the pathology. You`re diagnosed with bipolar. I have to read this because this is such a list here.
FISHER: I even think there`s a few things that aren`t on there.
BEHAR: I have bipolar manic depression.
FISHER: No, no. Those are the same thing.
BEHAR: They are? That`s right. Those are the same thing.
FISHER: I like the name manic depression, though, because it describes what it`s like. Bipolar just sounds like you came here from Alaska.
BEHAR: Which did you like better? The manic or the depression?
FISHER: Of course the manic. Depression would be like an idiot. No, I don`t like that stuff.
BEHAR: Were you running around the streets like some people I know, manic-depressive, running around and just taking their clothes off and acting like that? You did do that?
FISHER: No taking of the clothes off that I recall. But I`ve had electroconvulsive therapy for years so maybe I`ve been nude for years and I haven`t noticed.
BEHAR: Do you still get that?
FISHER: Nude? Yes, sometimes, just when I take a bath.
BEHAR: The electroshocks.
FISHER: Yes, I had it last week. Look, here`s my little...
BEHAR: What does it feel like?
FISHER: It feels like -- it makes you feel better for one thing. But they put you to sleep now. There`s no -- it`s not like its depiction in media, which is really what`s caused the stigma. I think also some of the pharmaceutical companies are probably not happy because it works so well. I`m on less medication now.
They put you to sleep. They give you a medication that -- I believe it`s called flexonacoline (ph) that freezes your muscles. Remember that movie "What Lies Beneath" and Harrison Ford gives Michelle Pfeiffer this medicine and she`s frozen and she can`t move. They give you that and you go to sleep. Then you wake up and Harrison and Michelle Pfeiffer there.
BEHAR: If just Harrison were there, it`s not so bad. You`re very open about your own issues.
Let`s watch a clip from the show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FISHER: I now get awards all the time for being mentally ill. I am apparently very good at it and I get honored for it regularly.
Now, I think one of the reasons that I`m such a shoo-in is there`s no swimsuit portion of the competition. Come on, it`s better than being bad at being mentally ill, right? How tragic would it be to be runner-up for bipolar woman of the year?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: If anybody deserves to have a one-woman show, it`s you. You have so many things -- your parents were divorced and remarried several times. We all know the Eddie and Debbie story, with Elizabeth Taylor. We`ll get to that a little later. It`s so great.
Your best friend died in your bed.
FISHER: Yes. That was bad.
BEHAR: Your second husband left you for another man. Of course you`re bipolar. Who wouldn`t be with this type of a resume?
(CROSSTALK)
FISHER: What`s great about being bipolar is all that would feel bad for just anybody, but I get it dialed up.
BEHAR: I know you do. You turn all of that into comedy which is the greatest gift that you can give yourself, in my opinion.
FISHER: It`s the best kind of alchemy there is. What, do I want to feel bad?
BEHAR: You don`t.
FISHER: I have a family member that took all the charm and romance out of self-pity, so I`m not into that.
BEHAR: Which one was that?
FISHER: I`m not going to tell you.
BEHAR: Ok. We`ll be back with more Carrie Fisher. Maybe I`ll get more stuff out of her when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
I heard I was in the textbook and I heard I was in there with a picture. And I thought, "What? I mean, what picture?" It`s not like anyone ever, ever called me and said, you know, do you have a little snapshot of yourself looking depressed or manic, you know, like from the show?
So for years it truly bugged me. What picture? Well, I have fantastic news. We found the picture. And rather than describe it to you, would you guys like to see it? Because I so want to show it to you.
Yes. Yes. So I`m not crazy. That (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with writer, actress and pop culture icon Carrie Fisher. That`s quite a title for you. Don`t you think?
FISHER: Writer, actress, Pez dispenser.
BEHAR: Pez dispenser. Your parents were a little bit unusual for parents. Your father...
FISHER: But not for, like, kitchen appliances.
BEHAR: Your father is Eddie Fisher who was famous in the `50s for "Oh My Papa" and your mother, Debbie Reynolds, the most famous -- one of the most famous musical comedy stars from the `40s and `50s. Right?
FISHER: She`s still performing.
BEHAR: "Singing in the Rain." And I saw her recently at the (INAUDIBLE)...
FISHER: I know.
BEHAR: ... she`s hilariously funny, she does great impressions. I guess it must have been hard growing up with these two.
FISHER: Oh, come on, no. You want to talk about high-class problems, that`s nose bleed high.
BEHAR: Yes.
FISHER: I mean, you know -- every childhood has its challenges. It depends on the slant you have on it.
BEHAR: Right.
FISHER: I go for the funny slant.
BEHAR: You did? Did you go for the funny slant when you were a kid?
FISHER: Teenage law is that nothing is funny. Everything is, you know...
BEHAR: Tragic.
FISHER: It`s against you and you`re a victim and, you know, everyone is doing it to you.
BEHAR: I see. That sounds like Sarah Palin for some reason.
FISHER: Yes. She`s one of my favorite genius people in the world.
BEHAR: Yes. But it reminds me of her; always the victim in everything.
FISHER: Her wit is just intimidating.
BEHAR: I know a lot of the pain -- look, I`m a comedian, you know? So I understand. A lot of it is defensive posture comedy I think.
FISHER: It`s also -- I`ll say it first and I`ll say it my way.
BEHAR: Go ahead.
FISHER: I`m just saying. So you can`t -- look, they put -- I did -- there was a thing in one of the tabloids. It said "Carrie Fisher`s Tragic Life." That`s not ok with me and that`s not how I look at it.
BEHAR: You don`t want them defining it for you.
FISHER: No. If I didn`t have so much to overcome, I wouldn`t know that I had courage.
BEHAR: You know, Angela`s Ashes, guy who wrote that, wonderful writer -- tell me his name -- Frank McCourt, he wrote in the book that the happy childhood is almost not worth having because you don`t get a book out of it. You don`t get a one-woman show. You don`t get material.
FISHER: There`s another line about that. Like, oh, shoot -- now you`re going to -- I can`t.
BEHAR: You`ll think of it. You`ll think of it during the next break because we`re still coming back.
FISHER: All right. Good.
BEHAR: About the drug addiction. You went into rehab at 29. Right? What kind of drugs were you doing?
FISHER: What do you have? I -- yes, yours. No. I was stealing medication from people`s medicine cabinets.
BEHAR: Like you`d be visiting their house and go in there?
FISHER: Yes. Or the other way to do it -- I can`t tell. It will give people ideas. I got very clever at it anyway.
BEHAR: I don`t know if everybody is as smart as you are. So how did you do it?
FISHER: Real estate; going house hunting.
BEHAR: Seriously.
FISHER: Let me see your bathroom.
BEHAR: That is so funny.
FISHER: Marvelous, marvelous.
BEHAR: I wonder how the people at Corcoran feel about that right now.
Some people go in just to check what people are using birth control.
FISHER: It makes sense with real estate. I`m taking away the real out of the -- I don`t want to feel the real so I go get the real estate and take it away.
BEHAR: See, you`re such a clever girl. That`s how you did it.
We actually have more with you. Everybody out there, stay right there. We`re coming back with more Carrie Fisher.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FISHER: All right. Welcome class to Hollywood 101. Thank you so much for enrolling. All right. So, over here we Debbie and Eddie. In the `50s they were known as America`s sweethearts. Those of you that are younger, all three of you, and you can`t, you know, you can`t relate to any of this, try to think of it this way. Think of Eddie as Brad Pitt, Debbie as Jennifer Aniston and Elizabeth as Angelina Jolie. Does that help? That should really help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with the very funny, very talented Carrie Fisher who explains in detail her very complicated family tree in "Wishful Drinking." joining us on the phone, a very important branch of that family tree. Debbie Reynolds. Hello, Debbie.
CARRIE FISHER, AUTHOR: Oh, I forgot about this. Hello, there. Hi, mom.
DEBBIE REYNOLDS, ACTRESS AND CARRIE FISHER`S MOTHER: Hello, darling daughter.
BEHAR: So, Debbie, you`ve seen the play, right?
REYNOLDS: I`ve seen it about seven times. It`s great.
BEHAR: So it there anything in there that you can relate to or that you -- or that you would say --
REYNOLDS: No. I would just -- I think she should have put everything in then it would have really been an overnight sensation.
BEHAR: Why what did she leave out? What did you leave out?
(CROSSTALK)
FISHER: Mom -- oh, yeah, there`s some stuff --
BEHAR: Why are you looking up?
FISHER: Because she`s god.
BEHAR: Debbie is god.
FISHER: Mom -- I hear the voice from up there.
BEHAR: You`re very close to her now, aren`t you?
FISHER: We live next door to each other.
BEHAR: Where, in California? How is that working out?
REYNOLDS: I adore my daughter. She`s my daughter. She`s my child. Very talented.
BEHAR: She certainly is. So are you, Debbie.
FISHER: If I did not have you as a role model, there would be no way I would still be working. She -- when we stop working out she goes to nightclubs, plays. She reinvents herself. I do that also.
BEHAR: She`s a great role model for that.
FISHER: I finally did turn into her, right, mom?
REYNOLDS: Well, you are a wonderful talent and I want to thank Joy for coming over to the car aisle to see your mother. That was very nice of you, Joy. Thank you.
BEHAR: Debbie, I was looking for you after the show but you disappeared. You must have just wanted to get away from everybody - because I was going to come over -
REYNOLDS: No, there`s no dressing room there so I had to change. Naked in the lobby, I didn`t think the car aisle was up to it.
BEHAR: Well anyway, Debbie, you`re great. You and your daughter can bond later.
FISHER: I know we`re going to do a great garden thing, I think. (CROSSTALK)
REYNOLDS: I love you, Carrie.
FISHER: I love you, ma. Talk to you later.
BEHAR: Good-bye, hon. Debbie is an incredible icon in American -
FISHER: My mother`s awesome.
BEHAR: She`s awesome. She really is. As a mother she -- there`s a few things have to question -- does your mother really suggest you get pregnant by an ex-husband? Tell me about that.
FISHER: OK, yes, she did, but she wanted me also -- it would make the show too long. She thought, though, she couldn`t have children. Richard didn`t -- ended up being an awful husband. Awful.
BEHAR: One of your husband`s?
FISHER: One of my mother`s husbands. She did better --
BEHAR: That`s not the one, Harry Karl -- that drove her into the poor house?
FISHER: Richard Hamlet. Is the bad one.
BEHAR: Is he alive?
FISHER: Oh yes. I wonder who he`s taking advantage now. Anyway, so my mother thought, though, that you could get pregnant -- this was explained recently because I finally did say, you really -- she thought you could get an injection, what, like a sperm in your arm injection? Then the sperm would go down here and I would have --
BEHAR: See this is what happens when you`re raised catholic.
FISHER: My mother`s eccentric. She`s not catholic. She`s raised by a very strange group of people from Texas.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: So she figured that that would be the way to do it, huh?
FISHER: Yes, that`s one of her ideas.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about your stepmother, Elizabeth Taylor for a second. What was she like?
FISHER: Well I didn`t get to know her until much later. I think she`s terrific.
BEHAR: Everyone loves Elizabeth Taylor.
FISHER: She`s lovely.
BEHAR: But she did steal your father away from your mother.
FISHER: I once gave her an award and thanked her for getting Eddie out of the house. But the thing is I did say to her once, did you love my father? And she said we kept Mike Todd alive.
BEHAR: Oh, it was really on the heels of his --
FISHER: He was best friends with Mike Todd. I said -- Mike Todd was fantastic.
BEHAR: So he was, like, sort of a surrogate Mike Todd? That was weird. But your father was he in love with her?
FISHER: I`m sure he was. Look at the woman. She`s, you know, she`s fun.
BEHAR: She`s a lot of fun. But so is your mother. They`re both fun broad. You really had a great -- in a certain way you had a great, great time didn`t you?
FISHER: Yes, absolutely.
BEHAR: You really did.
FISHER: I have other stuff to make sure I know that that time was great. That`s what`s good about bad times. Then you appreciate that other stuff.
BEHAR: That`s true. How about your father? Was he any kind of a father at all or was he just an absentee, what?
FISHER: No he was not, my father is adorable. He`s lovely. He`s charming. You can see why he got all that (EXPLETIVE DELETED), but --
BEHAR: I can say it.
FISHER: Oh, come on.
BEHAR: My girlfriend --
FISHER: And he loves women.
BEHAR: He loves women.
FISHER: And we have a very large relationship now, so it`s like now I`m sort of, you know -- but he -- no, my father was a boyfriend.
BEHAR: Right, right.
FISHER: And he had children because it was a byproduct of sex. But he was not a bad father, at all.
BEHAR: Right.
FISHER: I love - when he was - when you saw him you loved him. I wanted -- that was the tragedy of it if there was. You know, there was so little of him available at that time.
BEHAR: Well you know, nowadays when you hear about horrible fathers and how sexually abusing their children, you look back on our fathers who were negligent and say thank you.
FISHER: He had Elizabeth.
BEHAR: And he was sexually abused -- now, Meryl Streep, I want to go here, do we have time for this? She played a character loosely based on you in "Postcards from the Edge."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Will you please tell me, what is this awful thing I did to you when you were a child?
You want to know?
I want to know. Tell me.
OK. Fine. From the time I was 9 years old you gave me sleeping pills.
That was over the counter medication and I gave it to you because --
You don`t give children sleeping pills.
They were not sleeping pills. It was store bought and it was perfectly safe.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was one of my favorite movies. I just love the way Shirley MacLaine --
FISHER: She was great.
BEHAR: Was she like Debbie in the movie?
FISHER: Yes.
BEHAR: Sort of self-absorbed?
FISHER: You know, my mom -- I don`t know that that`s what -- I wouldn`t call my mother self-absorbed. I mean --
BEHAR: All actresses are self-absorbed.
FISHER: We are. This isn`t narcissistic. You`re probably that. I am that, you know.
BEHAR: Well I don`t know if narcissistic is a disorder but self - centered is a disorder.
FISHER: A good form of narcissism.
BEHAR: You think so? How about -- let`s do a little bit on your men before we run out of time here. You were married to Paul Simon.
FISHER: You`re kidding.
BEHAR: I went to college with Paul Simon.
FISHER: How was that for you?
BEHAR: We used to hear him playing his guitar on the library steps at Queens College.
FISHER: He said the Arty Garfunkel`s bar mitzvah was standing room only.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But I mean how that -- that lasted a little while did. I remember when you were married to him.
FISHER: That was great.
BEHAR: Are you friends with him now?
FISHER: That`s complicated you know because we`ve moved on.
BEHAR: Yes. Has he come to see the show?
FISHER: No.
BEHAR: No?
FISHER: I mean there`s nothing in it that, you know, would be bad. I`m very -- I mean, I admire Paul. You know, I had a really -- some of our relationship was fantastic.
BEHAR: Just before we go, what about this other guy who left you for a man?
FISHER: Uh-huh. What about him?
BEHAR: Did you have any signs he was gay? I`m always interested in these stories from the women who were married to gay guys. Any kind of indications?
(CROSSTALK)
FISHER: Yes.
BEHAR: Like what?
FISHER: Well, whatever there was -- I don`t know like what, but whatever there was, I`d heard rumors. I`ve heard that I`m gay, and, you know.
BEHAR: People say a lot of different things about people in the media. You were sleeping with the guy.
FISHER: That`s a way to not know.
BEHAR: Really. That`s interesting. How so?
FISHER: Look, because you`re having -- if you`re having regular sex with someone you`re not going to think, I mean, why would you think -- he`s having sex with me like he wishes I was a man? I mean --
BEHAR: A substitution, like an acting trick.
FISHER: I didn`t think of it because we were very involved with each other that way.
BEHAR: I spoke to gay guys about this and they say it`s really easy to have sex with a woman when you`re gay because you`re thinking of someone else and get going and then there she is.
FISHER: And we have a lovely daughter together.
BEHAR: Are you a good mother like your mom was?
FISHER: I am an eccentric and good mother like my mom was, but in a different way.
BEHAR: Thank you, Carrie. A delight to talk you, really I just love you. And the show is called, again, "Wishful Drinking." if you in New York, you should check it out. We`ll be back in a little while.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Was the suspect in the heartless shooting at Fort Hood radicalized? And if authorities knew about Major Hasan`s email, emails, with radical clerics, why didn`t they do anything? Joining me to fill in the missing pictures are New York Time`s OP ED Columnist Charles Blow and Margaret Carlson, Lumburg Columnist. And Washington editor of "The Week" magazine. But first let`s go to Ed Lavandera CNN correspondent at Fort Hood. Ed, hi, how are you? What do we know about the FBI investigation of this alleged shooter at this point, Ed?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well what the FBI is saying right now is that Hasan come on to their radar in December of 2008 as part of another investigation they were doing and found that Hassan had been communicating with the person that was the subject of that investigation; some 10 or 12 e-mails we understand were exchanged. But beyond that it didn`t go any farther.
BEHAR: OK. Well Hassan exchanged e-mails with this radical cleric. Do we know what they say or said, rather?
LAVANDERA: we don`t know details - we don`t know specifically of what was said in there. What`s been told to us is that, what was talked about in those e-mails were within the line of work major Hassan was doing at the time. That`s why they`re saying it didn`t raise red flags and why the investigation didn`t go farther.
BEHAR: But with the evidence, all this evidence of the back and forth e-mailing, why did the FBI decide he posed no threat?
LAVANDERA: Well because they thought it was within the scope of what major Hassan and the type of work he was doing within the military. So they didn`t think there was anything out of the ordinary, there wasn`t anything extremist in nature being said or any warning signs that would point to Major Hassan being on the verge of carrying out an attack like this.
BEHAR: OK, all right Ed, thanks so much. I`d like to bring in my panel. Let`s talk. Margaret, are you there?
MARGARET CARLSON, LUMBURG COLUMNIST: I am, Joy.
BEHAR: Hi. It s8ounds like the army and FBI messed up big-time here, don`t you think?
CARLSON: Oh, big-time. If Major Hassan were gay he would have been gone because there`s a don`t ask/don`t tell policy.
BEHAR: That`s an interesting point.
CARLSON: Every single warning sign was there and it was ignored and who thought that the army was politically correct? If it was protecting a Muslim, it went way too far. A little common sense. He didn`t just exchange e-mails. He went to a radical mosque. His subordinates, his patients had all worn the higher ups. He was promoted. There`s a ridiculous story in the paper here, I don`t want to make the paper but it`s my hometown paper, Charles, not your paper, in which they were describing Hassan`s poor existence, he live in a Hubbell, didn`t have friends. He probably ate dog food. Here`s a guy making probably $100,000 a year. We don`t care about root causes and other things or his privations. It was there -- people knew. They didn`t even have to find out. This is a lack of common sense and it is a lack of taking the warning signs and doing something about it.
CHARLES BLOW, NEW YORK TIMES OP ED COLUMNIST: Well, I mean, I think Margaret makes a great point here which is, you know, this guy had more red flags around him them Tiananmen square. I mean he`s meeting -- he`s having communications with this person who is a known terror suspect. Even if that`s against law, and it`s not, we don`t know what it`s in those e- mails. It should be against the military code of conduct.
That same military code of conduct says, you know, you can talk to a terrorist and that`s OK. You kiss another guy; you`re in danger to society. Get you out of here. That`s insane. S o we held on to this guy. He, you know, he goes -- part of it could come back to bite the Right Wing and gun advocates because as Mike Isikoff points out in his piece today in "Newsweek," this guy goes and buys a high-powered handgun which automatically triggers the FBI to do a background check.
But because of gun rights lobbyists and the way the law is written, they couldn`t share that fact with the people who were investigating. Once they have cleared you they can`t share that information with anyone. They have to get rid of it. Can`t store it or anything. If it turns out that would have triggered a further investigation, it could be a real, you know, kind of a --
BEHAR: Who`s libel in that case?
BLOW: It`s not liability now because the law -- they`re following the law. The law says they cannot hold the information.
BEHAR: I see.
BLOW: The law says they can`t share the information.
BEHAR: But this guy, this cleric is now in Yemen, he was in touch with the 9/11 hijackers. Right? Why wasn`t that a red flag for the army to say, why are you talking to this guy?
BLOW: I don`t understand how -- like I say, it`s not against the law but it should be against the military code of conduct. There should be no active duty military officers who are allowed to have open communication with a known terror suspect unless they`re working on the investigation. Anyone who is suspected of that should be pulled aside, questioned, not just monitored, questioned and they should not be put in a situation where they`re in charge of talking to other soldiers about their problems.
BEHAR: OK this congress -- there`s a Congressman, Hoekstra, I think is how you say it, I think, he said that the overseas Jihadists are radicalizing people around the country. So is this happening from abroad somewhere and they`re influencing people in this country? Is that happening?
BLOW: Well we don`t know if this guy is radicalized. He could just be a nut. You know, he could just -
BEHAR: Margaret, do you think he`s a nut? Or is he radicalized? What do you think?
CARLSON: Well, he could be a radical nut. Can`t he?
BEHAR: I guess.
BLOW: That`s a compromise.
CARLSON: In my world they don`t, you know, blot out each other. You know, there are Congressmen and Senators trying to get in on this. You know, the media get into the hot iron of the media here. You know, I`m not sure that what we need is politicians looking at this. I would rather see an investigation, a real one by the FBI and army military intelligence go forward and then let`s let the congressmen like Hoekstra come in and weigh in with their two cents.
BEHAR: OK there`s a lot of talk about political correctness in all of this incident. How much of that played into it?
BLOW: You know I have no idea.
BEHAR: But were they afraid to turn him in because he`s a Muslim and that they would appear to be anti-Muslim? Is that what`s going on? Is that going on at all?
BLOW: Who knows? I have no idea if that`s part of the equation. You could definitely make that argument and speculate in that direction. It would be plausible that, you know, because of his own experiences in the military and the harassment he already received, you could make that argument. I have no idea if that`s the actual case. And so I would hesitate to go that step.
BEHAR: But he also said something about how Muslims should be considered conscientious objectors in the army so they can opt out of the army. Margaret, why do they go into the army in the first place if they realize that we`re fighting other Muslims around the world?
CARLSON: Well, they may want to be good citizens. They may think they can acclimate. They may want a job. Many Muslims. You know, most Muslims, and I think this is where the political correctness comes in, you know, we don`t want Muslims to be discriminated against because 99.9% of Muslims are practicing religion that`s honorable and nonviolent.
BEHAR: I know.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: But that doesn`t mean when you see someone, hey, he doesn`t have to be a Muslim. What he did, if anybody did it, would be horrible.
BEHAR: That`s right. Margaret, Charles, stay with me. We`ll have more when we come back. I want to talk about health care, too. All right.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This is a health care bill, not an abortion bill. And we`re not looking to change what is a core principle that has been in place for a very long time which is federal dollars are not used to subsidize abortions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: It may not be an abortion bill, but let`s be clear. This amendment places new abortion restrictions on women. Am I right, Margaret?
CARLSON: You`re right. Joy, can I say that since Bette Midler came and talked about politics I thought Charles and I might get to sing "The Wind beneath My Wings" instead of talking about health care, which by the way, I talk about about 23 hours a day. But truth be told, these -- I mean, this has almost nothing to do with abortion or health care, but it`s a way to raise a hot-button issue and derail the health care bill.
You know, we -- women have had restrictions placed on abortion, you know, the right to choose abortion is now extending to the right to choose insurance that has abortion coverage. If this goes through, it`s not just federal funds, but it will end up restricting any insurance in the insurance exchange which involves private money.
BEHAR: I know.
CARLSON: And the States say, well, I mean, the pro-life people say, well, you can buy an abortion writer. In the states which that`s been raised, not one insurance company has offered such a thing and in any event it`s very costly. This is not a remedy
BEHAR: Right also, why would a woman buy a writer for an abortion when an abortion is an accident -- you get pregnant accidentally? It`s not something you plan.
BLOW: Right.
CARLSON: Right. It`s not -- you`re so right. It`s not like getting insurance to, you know, so that your baby visits are covered at the pediatrician`s office. BEHAR: I found it interesting Democratic Congressman Loretta Sanchez, this morning I saw you with her on "Good Morning Joe," she said we have to acknowledge the House of Representatives is not majority pro- choice. I thought that was -- I couldn`t believe my ears because 52% of Americans and 57% of Democrats identify themselves as pro-choice, but the House of Representatives does not reflect the American population.
BLOW: Yeah, because that`s not gender equality in the House of Representatives. You have more men in the House -- you know, generally a 50/50 split in the general population but not in congress. You have more men.
BEHAR: So is the secret, Margaret, to just elect more women so that women will finally get everything they -- we deserve and should have?
CARLSON: Joy, that`s the secret to everything. More women. Charles, I don`t mean to leave you out here, but Joy --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Charles can be in it. He has his head in the right place and his heart in the right place, also. He`s okay. We like him.
CARLSON: Women and people we let in. Which is what men have been doing for years? Listen, the makeup of the congress, even of the Democratic Party now has a lot of social conservatives in it because the idea was to expand -- while the Republicans are shrinking their tent, Democrats have been expanding their tent, and there are a lot of Democrats elected in districts that McCain won candidly. Those are the ones that are right picking for Republican Conservatives.
BEHAR: I ran out of time. You want to quickly?
BLOW: I`m just saying, it`s not a mistake that, no accident that, you know, abortions might get voted against and Viagra`s covered. We can`t get pregnant.
BEHAR: That is really annoying. Thanks to my panel for joining me tonight and thank you all for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
