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Nancy Grace
Tapes Fill in Details of Quinn Gray Kidnapping Hoax
Aired November 10, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live to Florida, exclusive enclave, Ponte Vedra coast. A high-powered money man comes home to find his young wife with cover girl good looks, the mother of his two little girls, gone, vanished. Left behind, a hand-written ransom note demanding $50,000 in exchange for the life of wife and mother Quinn Gray. She allegedly suffers a horrific ordeal, kidnap, abuse, sex attack.
Tonight: After the $50,000 paid in cold cash, cops close in to nab the alleged kidnapper and accomplice. Kicker? It`s Mommy, Mommy herself, along with her brand-new boy toy. That`s right, they faked it. Tonight, secret audio between Mommy and her boyfriend and police interrogations emerge. We have the tape. Bye-bye, good times. Hello, hard time, Mommy.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Sheriff`s office, 911. What`s your emergency?
QUINN GRAY: My name is Quinn Gray, and I was kidnapped and I`m not sure where I am right now!
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: Right now, I definitely need you for five minutes. I`m going crazy about you.
QUINN GRAY: What?
OSMANOVIC: I`m going crazy about you.
QUINN GRAY: I`m not a slut, you know.
OSMANOVIC: Does Reid get this much action?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUINN GRAY: He started kissing on my ears and my neck and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you react at that point?
QUINN GRAY: I just -- I kind of reacted just still at first, you know, a little bit still. And then I started to act like I enjoyed it a little bit. And he started to kiss me and -- and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what was your frame of mind at that point? What was going through your mind when this was happening?
QUINN GRAY: My frame of mind was we`re going to have sex. And I`m going to have sex with him, and that`s all.
yes, all my clothes come off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
QUINN GRAY: Yes, he helps me, but I`m helping, too. And I acted like I enjoyed it. And I`m not going to lie, sometimes I almost did. I knew I wasn`t going to -- to resist him. So I tried to make it the best possible, you know? And he would just -- over and over and over and over and over again. And sometimes, I would -- I would say what he wanted me to say and do whatever he wanted me to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also tonight, in the last hours, a 5-year-old little North Carolina girl vanishes without a trace from the child`s own home. It happened around 5:30 AM. Wait! Is the sun even up then? The child wearing nothing but a T-shirt and underwear. As you know, the first 48 hours so critical. Tonight, where is 5-year-old Shaniya?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police in Fayetteville, North Carolina, are searching for this 5-year-old girl. Please look at her. This is Shaniya Nicole Davis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say 5-year-old Shaniya Davis disappeared this morning from her mobile home inside the Sleepy Hollow mobile home park off Murchison Road. Authorities have been searching for her since they got a call from her mother this morning. They`ve searched on foot, they`ve searched in the air, and they`ve even searched using tracking dogs, but so far no luck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s three feet tall, 40 pounds, brown hair and brown eyes, and she was last seen wearing a blue T-shirt and no shoes. She also has a scar on her left foot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Live to Florida, exclusive enclave, Ponte Vedra coast. A high- powered money man comes home to find his wife, the mother of his two little girls, gone, vanished. Left behind, a handwritten ransom note demanding $50,000. After the $50,000 paid in cold cash, the cops nab the alleged kidnapper and accomplice. Kicker? It`s Mommy, Mommy herself, along with her brand-new lover. That`s right, they faked the whole thing. Bye-bye, good times. Hello, hard time, Mommy.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: If they just knew you were here by yourself all night long with a gun...
(LAUGHTER)
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: ... they would have a fit!
(LAUGHTER)
QUINN GRAY: That`s why I`m starting to feel like I`m the sinister one, doing this to my family.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: It`s Reid, remember?
QUINN GRAY: I know.
When this is all over, I have your word?
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: What?
QUINN GRAY: Whatever story we come up with, you stick to it.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: We both have to stick to the same story because we`re both (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
QUINN GRAY: Yes.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: OK.
QUINN GRAY: Well, I was thinking that I wasn`t even going to tell. I was going to say if they wanted me to describe any of them, I was going to be, like, No way, they`ll kill me.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUINN GRAY: I knew he was moley. He had moles, you know? But not a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see him with no shirt on?
QUINN GRAY: Yes, there was nothing distinguishable. His nipples weren`t very dark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Why did you see him with no shirt on?
QUINN GRAY: Because we were -- we had sex a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
QUINN GRAY: A hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: I know.
QUINN GRAY: Fifty thousand dollars is a lot of money. Anyway, now that I`m looking at it the way that that $50,000 is going to mean to me in the future...
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: It`s all -- that`s all...
QUINN GRAY: Either that or you just blow his head off.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: Say what?
QUINN GRAY: Either that or you just blow his head off.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: So at some point, either at the get-go or somewhere in between the beginning and the end, the boy toy, 25-year-old lover, starts taping Mommy, 37-year-old Quinn Gray, during their sex sessions, while they are discussing the fake kidnap plot, discussing blowing the head off of her husband, the father of her two little children.
To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story. We`ve learned a lot since last night, when we first started the story.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s correct, Nancy, a lot of details in this police affidavit that we received. Quinn Gray apparently first aroused suspicion with cops when they said it sounded like she was making up the details as she went along, initially telling them this story about being abducted by these loan sharks who her husband owed money to, later saying she was sexually assaulted, then going into great detail about this alleged sex assault with the kidnapper, including what type of sex acts that were involved and many other details about that time she spent with this alleged abductor.
GRACE: Tonight, secret audiotapes between Quinn and the boyfriend, as well as police interrogation tapes, emerge. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUINN GRAY: He started kissing on my ears and my neck and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you react at that point?
QUINN GRAY: I just -- I kind of reacted just still at first, you know, a little bit still. And then I started to act like I enjoyed it a little bit. And he started to kiss me and -- and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what was your frame of mind at that point? What was going through your mind when this was happening?
QUINN GRAY: My frame of mind was we`re going to have sex. And I`m going to have sex with him, and that`s all.
yes, all my clothes come off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
QUINN GRAY: Yes, he helps me, but I`m helping, too. And I acted like I enjoyed it. And I`m not going to lie, sometimes I almost did. I knew I wasn`t going to -- to resist him. So I tried to make it the best possible, you know? And he would just -- over and over and over and over and over again. And sometimes, I would -- I would say what he wanted me to say and do whatever he wanted me to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
QUINN GRAY: A hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: I know.
QUINN GRAY: Fifty thousand dollars is a lot of money. Anyway, now that I`m looking at it the way that that $50,000 is going to mean to me in the future...
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: It`s all -- that`s all...
QUINN GRAY: Either that or you just blow his head off.
OSMANOVIC: Say what?
QUINN GRAY: Either that or you just blow his head off.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a mole in the back of his neck. Have you told anybody else that?
QUINN GRAY: I knew he was moley. He had moles, you know? But not a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see him with no shirt on?
QUINN GRAY: Yes, there was nothing distinguishable. His nipples weren`t very dark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Why did you see him with no shirt on?
QUINN GRAY: Because we were -- we had sex a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Susan Moss, New York, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney, Atlanta, Jason Oshins, defense attorney in New York.
OK, Ray. You`re the defense attorney. What`s your defense? I mean, come on, Ray. Before you were a defense attorney, as I recall, you were an assistant solicitor in a very, very busy jurisdiction. Now, did you ever, ever when you were over in felony court, hear a rape victim describe, quote, "being kissed on the ear and the neck"...
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No.
GRACE: ... how she had sex a lot, how she pretended to enjoy it?
GIUDICE: Well, wait a second now.
GRACE: Come on! Come on! Ray...
GIUDICE: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
GRACE: No rape victim...
GIUDICE: Hold on.
GRACE: ... says, We had sex a lot.
GIUDICE: I agree, but...
GRACE: And rape is a violent rape.
GIUDICE: You said many things, and let me pick a piece of it. I have heard victims say that they cooperated in an effort to save their life. And Nancy, let me say one thing. Many years ago, when you were very young, Patty Hearst was videotaped robbing a bank with an M-16 rifle. She was acquitted of that bank robbery by proving that she had been brainwashed and kidnapped and went along for fear of her own life and safety...
GRACE: OK. Pause. Put Giudice up on the screen. Put him up!
GIUDICE: I`m here.
GRACE: Number one, I never believed Patty Hearst. That was complete BS.
GIUDICE: She...
GRACE: Number two -- no! You had your turn. Number two, she was held by the Symbion Lebanese (SIC) Army...
GIUDICE: That`s right.
GRACE: ... for many, many weeks, all right?
GIUDICE: OK.
GRACE: This woman was held, according to her, for 24 hours. But you`re saying all this BS, Ray...
GIUDICE: My -- my point is...
GRACE: No! No! No, no!
GIUDICE: Don`t jump to...
GRACE: No!
GIUDICE: ... the automatic conclusion...
GRACE: Ray!
GIUDICE: ... because you haven`t heard all the facts, as usual.
GRACE: Ray?
GIUDICE: Yes, Nancy?
GRACE: Are you suggesting this is a real kidnap?
GIUDICE: I`m suggesting she may have some defenses that may...
GRACE: I`m asking you, are you saying this is a real kidnap?
GIUDICE: I don`t know the answer. As a defense lawyer...
GRACE: You don`t? OK.
GIUDICE: ... I`m going to defend -- you asked me to...
GRACE: Maybe you should listen...
GIUDICE: ... defend her. I`m going to defend her.
GRACE: ... to Sue Moss`s rendition of the facts. Sue...
GIUDICE: Well, I`d like to see Sue do a defense.
GRACE: ... it has been absolutely -- it has been absolutely, unequivocally proven there was no kidnap. She was with her younger boyfriend the whole time. We have tapes of them having sex and laughing about the whole thing. This is not a kidnap. So to suggest that she said all this under duress is ridiculous. You got to have a different defense.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely. This is the worst. He thinks he`s married to Patty Hearst. I`ve got to tell you something. Love might be blind, but this guy`s out of his mind. And I don`t buy it. And I don`t buy it for many reasons. First of all, her words are what are going to destroy her. She`s very clear. She knows what she`s doing and is very competent when she`s speaking about this whole plan with her boy toy.
GRACE: What about it, Jason Oshins?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: If they just knew you were here by yourself all night long with a gun...
(LAUGHTER)
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: ... they would have a fit!
(LAUGHTER)
QUINN GRAY: That`s why I`m starting to feel like I`m the sinister one, doing this to my family.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: It`s Reid, remember?
QUINN GRAY: I know.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An alleged kidnap victim caught on tape. By now, you know her name, Quinn Gray, accused of plotting to extort money from her husband in a bizarre scheme that that ended in two arrests. During the investigation, Quinn Gray is interviewed by the FBI. An agent asks her about her relationship with her husband, Reid, saying the police have information claiming she wanted to leave him and just wanted a car, the kids, and $50,000.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me about the time you told him you just wanted him to pay the car off, you`ll take the kids, and give you 50 grand. Tell me about that.
QUINN GRAY: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, tell me about that.
QUINN GRAY: That`s not true. He`s lying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t say he said that.
QUINN GRAY: What are you talking about?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m asking you to tell me about you saying to him, I just want the kids, pay the car off, give me 50 grand and I`m gone.
QUINN GRAY: I don`t know what you`re talking about. I don`t know what you`re talking about.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OSMANOVIC: I still have those undies. I told you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. We`re going to get it.
OSMANOVIC: She was at my shop and it should be in my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) car. Not the undies are not in my car. I know that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
OSMANOVIC: But we had sex in my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) car on the passenger side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got that in there.
OSMANOVIC: Yes. No, no, I`m saying I still have that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) underwear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Secret tapes emerge, tapes of the alleged kidnap victim, 37- year-old mother and wife Quinn Gray, along with her 25-year-old lover, as well as police interrogation tapes.
We are taking your calls live. Out to the lines. Connie in Kentucky. Hi, Connie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard that Mr. Gray was having an affair in June. Do you think his wife was getting back at him and having an affair of her own?
GRACE: You know what? I think that`s entirely possible, Connie in Kentucky, and that`s their business. That`s their can of worms. But when you start faking an abduction and you try to extort $50,000 from your own husband and have discussions about, quote, "blowing his head off," I think that`s gone beyond revenge.
To Mark Williams, anchor and reporter joining us out of the Florida jurisdiction. Mark Williams, is it true? We`ve heard all these allegations he had affairs, she had affairs. I want to know who`s taking care of the two little girls while these two are running around having all these affairs. And who cares if they were having affairs? I care about a felony.
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR/REPORTER: Well, the kids are being -- obviously being taken care of by family members. Reid Gray is still living in that $4 million posh estate in Ponte Vedra beach, which is in St. John`s County, abuts the Atlantic Ocean. It`s a great place. In fact, their mortgage payments are, like, 25 grand a month. Can you imagine that?
GRACE: No.
WILLIAMS: The deal is that family members are taking care of the kids, and they...
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
WILLIAMS: ... they did...
GRACE: Look, Mark. I don`t know if you can see the photos that we`re showing the viewers. Here they are on vacation. We just showed Christmas tree shots. There they are, I don`t know, maybe at a vacation rental. Didn`t anybody ever stop to think what this would all do to these two little children?
WILLIAMS: Obviously, Quinn Gray didn`t think of that. She bore those two children with her husband, and that obviously didn`t come to mind whatsoever, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, I`m certainly no example. I admit that right up front, all right? I`ve done plenty of horrible things before. But you know, even if I speed, driving down the street, I think, Oh, how am I going to tell the twins when they`re 16 not to speed, if I`m doing it myself? God forbid if they see me do it.
I mean, didn`t anybody -- out to you, Wendy Walsh, Dr. Walsh, psychologist, expert. These two are having all these affairs, which I really frankly don`t give a fig about. What I care about is her extorting $50,000 and leading police on a wild goose chase while legitimate cases were being ignored. But did they ever think what this could do to their two little girls?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly. The real victims here, Nancy, are these poor children in this. First of all, they`re not showing any remorse, not even for each other. How are they showing that they can even model a healthy relationship for their kids? And now this, Mommy in a mental evaluation institution, Daddy backing her up. What kind of moral lesson is this to a child?
GRACE: To attorney Jason Oshins. Jason, look, I`ve known you a long time, and I know how your life changed when you had your two children. Everything you do now, you think about them. Are these two that incredibly self-absorbed they don`t realize what this will do to their children?
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think, you know, we`re looking at the illness that obviously alcoholism has come to play in their lives, the fact that they`re out of rehab...
GRACE: Whoa! Don`t start up with alcoholism being a mental illness because it is not under the law.
OSHINS: Well, it`s a disease. You`re right. It`s not a mental illness. Their mental illness resulting from the alcoholism clearly has come to this point in their lives.
GRACE: Would that be "I got drunk and took a 25-year-old lover and planned to blow my husband`s head off" illness, Jason Oshins? Would that be the illness?
OSHINS: We need to examine more of what`s going on in...
GRACE: Do you have even a shred of evidence to suggest a mental illness?
OSHINS: We need to look more at what`s going on. This behavior...
GRACE: That`s a yes/no.
OSHINS: Yes. We need to look more at it. This behavior is dangerous to the children.
GRACE: No, the question is, have you seen anything in the facts...
OSHINS: Not yet, Nancy.
GRACE: ... that suggests -- OK, so there is no mental illness you that know of.
OSHINS: No, not as of now.
GRACE: OK. At least you`re honest.
OSHINS: Yes. Always.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Among the evidence obtained, these pictures taken of Quinn Gray after the ordeal. She said she had been tied up and held hostage.
QUINN GRAY: My frame of mind was we`re going to have sex. And I`m going to have sex with him, and that`s all.
yes, all my clothes come off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he helps me, but I`m helping, too. And I acted like I enjoyed it. And I`m not going to lie, sometimes I almost did. I knew I wasn`t going to resist him, so I tried to make it the best possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Sheriff`s office, 911. What`s your emergency?
QUINN GRAY: My name is Quinn Gray, and I was kidnapped, and I`m not sure where I am right now!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Please, save it. Ellie Jostad, isn`t it true that the cops have pinged her cell phone, and while she told them she was in a warehouse or she was in a car, in a van, and transferred from vehicle to vehicle in various parking lots, she was in a hotel shacked up with her lover the whole time?
JOSTAD: Right. Well, police say that this alleged lover, Jasmin Osmanovic, told them that not only did he never tie her up, he says that she willingly participated in any of the sexual activity. He says he left her alone in the vehicle with the car keys. He left her alone in the room. He said one time, she even left on her own to go buy beer. Now, there`s hotel employees that corroborate that she was there by herself a lot of the time, she seemed calm, she didn`t seem like she was there under duress.
GRACE: So Ray, under your theory, the Stockholm defense, where kidnap victims begin to identify with the kidnapper, she felt she had to go to the quick trip and get a six-pack, right?
GIUDICE: Her testimony may be that he threatened her that if she didn`t do that, he would kill her and her children. Listen, there`s no insanity defense here. I think Jason`s right on target. But if you`re her counsel, you`ve got to start to craft something.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you have a sexual relationship with Osmanovic?
QUINN GRAY: No, I did not. I did not know him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would someone make this stuff up?
QUINN GRAY: You wouldn`t make it up if it was the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Sheriff`s Office 911. What`s your emergency?
QUINN GRAY: My name is Quinn Gray, and I was kidnapped, and I`m not sure where I am right now.
REID GRAY: She`s not with me, she called me and said (INAUDIBLE) but she was held by gunpoint with three men.
911 OPERATOR: Did she tell you where she was at?
R. GRAY: No.
Q. GRAY: $100,000 is a lot of money.
JASMIN OSMANOVIC: I know.
Q. GRAY: $50,000 is a lot of money really. Now that I`m looking at it, the way that what $50,000 is going to mean to me in the future. Either that or you just blow his head off.
OSMANOVIC: Say what?
Q. GRAY: Either that or you just blow his head off.
It`s just been the most incredible ordeal to go through something like this and then in a 24-hour period to be brainwashed so significantly that you actually believe that your husband is trying to kill you. Or that he`s not trying to prohibit you from being killed, I should say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
Q. GRAY: You know? And I don`t know. It was just -- it was just the craziest situation I`ve ever been in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did you try to get money from your husband?
Q. GRAY: Of course not. If I wanted $50,000, all I would do is take it out of the bank account.
He started kissing on my ear and my neck and.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you react at that point?
Q. GRAY: I just -- I kind of reacted just still at first, you know, a little bit still, and then I started to act like I enjoyed it a little bit. And he started to kiss me and.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was your frame of mind at that point? What was going through your mind when this was happening?
Q. GRAY: My frame of mind was we`re going to have sex. And I`m going to have sex with him and that`s all. Yes, all my clothes come off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
Q. GRAY: Yes. He helps me, but I`m helping, too. And I acted like I enjoyed it. And I`m not going to lie, sometimes I almost did. I knew I wasn`t going to -- to resist him. So I tried to make it the best possible. You know?
And he would just over and over and over and over and over again. And sometimes I would -- I would say what he wanted me to say and do whatever he wanted me to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. Out to Marc Klaas, president and founder KlaasKids Foundation.
Marc, I know your specialty is looking for and finding missing children. In fact, I saw photos. You were too modest to say anything about it. Of your team with canines when little Shannon went missing last week.
Your people, your team was there. And they helped find little Shannon alive. But I want to go to you on this story, on this issue.
Marc, you and I have seen so many missing people, kidnapped people, murders. You and I are both crime victims. When I see something like this faked, and I think about the cops spending about a quarter million dollars trying to find this lady, this Heather Locklear look-alike -- no offense, Heather -- it just kills me.
When I think of people calling 911 that day -- and I`m not saying cops ignored those calls. I`m just saying there could have been more cops, more detectives on those cases while Miss Thing was propped up in a hotel room with a 25-year-old lover.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Yes. There`s no question about that. You know, when they were trying to synchronize their stories, he said to her, like I said, we have the whole day today. Whenever you want, whenever you feel comfortable, I`ll drop you off. OK?
Those, Nancy, are not the words of any person that`s ever kidnapped anybody in the history of the world. She is a willing participant and a co-conspirator in her own kidnapping, and she needs to be punished for this.
And I almost think this is a kind of crime that deserves a penalty enhancement, because it does divert resources. It does create skepticism on the part of the public. And we really just can`t stand for that as a society.
And you know, law enforcement has very limited resources these days. They can`t be running around chasing these silly little husband and wife soap opera plots. It`s crazy. It`s nuts.
GRACE: Well, the other thing, if you take a look at this, what these children, her children are going to go through, what they`re probably already going through if they`re back at school, what the other children are saying to them after mommy pulled this high jinx, and what`s really wrong is that some judge, Mark Williams -- anchor-reporter joining us out of Florida -- was finagled into letting her go into a, quote, "rehab" at St. Simon`s Island, Georgia.
You know what`s down there? One of the biggest five-star hotels, The Cloister, in the world. The most luxurious golf courses. The most beautiful beaches. And she is there in, quote, "rehab"? I`ve never heard a bigger crock -- and yes, that`s a technical legal term -- in my life. What judge did that?
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR/REPORTER, COVERING STORY: Well, here`s the deal, Nancy, is her husband is now standing, of course, by his wife, saying that she has bipolar. She`s bipolar because her mother and her grandmother were both bipolar.
And he finagled that the bond be lowered to where it was acceptable. She got out of jail saying that oh, we`re going to take her to St. Simon`s so she could get help. Well, she`s in St. Simon`s. Her boy toy is in the St. John`s County Jail right now. Luckily, not on a kidnapping charge, just on an extortion charge.
GRACE: That`s not right. That`s not right at all. To Dr. Gwen O`Keefe, pediatrician, founder and CEO, Pediatricsnow.com. Dr. O`Keefe, what can extreme emotional duress do to children? Say, these two little girls, they both go to a school that I know that I`m not naming. You know the other children are going to mock them about their mom, what their mom has done.
You know that. What could that conceivably do to them?
DR. GWEN O`KEEFE, PEDIATRICIAN; FOUNDER & CEO; PEDIATRIACSNOW.COM: You know, Nancy, this is a real mess for these kids because this mom has lied. The family situation sounds really stressful. These kids are going to be really made fun of and put through the ringers. And it`s being played out in the public face and on the media.
This is a tough situation for these kids. And the stress will be enormous. These kids are going to need a lot of support. They`re going to need a lot of fact checking. And if the mom is bipolar, which I think is questionable, but if she is that`s going to add a huge amount of extra burden to them because we don`t know what the mother`s mood swings were.
GRACE: Dr. O`Keefe, if this.
O`KEEFE: . whether she was up, whether she was down, so these kids need a lot of work.
GRACE: If this woman is bipolar, it`s a surprise to everybody because she`s never said a word about it. She`s never been diagnosed or treated until her husband blurted it out, I think on the "Today Show."
Ron Shindel, former NYPD deputy inspector. What should police be doing right now? I mean they`ve got the co-conspirator in their pocket. They`ve got him on tape. They`ve got her on tape. Do they have to do anything or is the case open and shut?
RON SHINDEL, FORMER NYPD DEPUTY INSPECTOR: Nancy, in this case I think they have to stop laughing because this is the most inept criminal.
GRACE: I`m not laughing.
SHINDEL: . I have seen in some time. They have all of these things put together. She`s handed them this case on a platter for them to turn it around.
GRACE: A silver platter.
SHINDEL: A silver platter for them to turn it from a kidnapping to the worst bungled, inept crime out there that I`ve seen to date.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Sabrina, New York. Hi, Sabrina.
SABRINA, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Nancy. I would just like to start out by saying it`s an honor to speak with you and I love everything about you. You`re an inspiration to all women. And may God bless and you your twins.
GRACE: You know, I appreciate that compliment, and I want to thank you for your blessing on the twins. They just turned 2 years old. And I remember laying in intensive care, and they were in intensive care on the other side of the hospital.
And I remember praying, God, if you can just help me get them to age 2. Because then I think, you know, they`ll be sturdy and they`ll have a chance. I revised that prayer this past Wednesday when they turned 2. I said if you can just help me get them through to 25, because then I think they`ll be sturdy and established. So I`ve had to revise that. But thank you. What`s your question, dear?
SABRINA: My concern was about Quinn Gray`s statement to the cops, where she said we`re going to have sex and that she was going to make it as best as possible. You know, to me usually a rape victim doesn`t refer to rape as sex and they definitely don`t try to make it the best as possible. That sounds consensual to me. What do you think?
GRACE: Well, it sounds more than consensual to me, Sabrina in New York. It sounds like complete B.S. I was trying to make that point to defense attorney Raymond Giudice and Jason Oshins earlier, which they refused to acknowledge. But you`re dead on. What about it, Dr. Walsh?
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST; EXPERT ON MOMLOGIC.COM: It sounds to me like those words are anticipatory rather than fearful, don`t you think? My frame of mind is not I was terrified. It`s we`re going to have sex. I mean, think of her choice. She`s really almost hung herself by the way she`s explained it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OSMANOVIC: Right now I definitely need you for give minutes. I`m going crazy about you.
Q. GRAY: What?
OSMANOVIC: I`m going crazy about you.
Q. GRAY: I`m not a slut, you know.
OSMANOVIC: Does Reid get this much action?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Q. GRAY: I don`t think anyone in their wildest dreams would think that I could concoct something like this.
OSMANOVIC: That`s why you`re with me.
Q. GRAY: I`m so nervous. And I`m going to have to have a few more marks if I`m telling these stories, do you thin? I`m going to be hysterical, don`t worry. Because the minute I`m back into the real world, without the safety net of you, I`m going to be freaking (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines, Elizabeth, Texas. Hi, Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Nancy. My better half is a former prosecutor and current defense attorney, family law. I think the daddy may be sticking by momma and maybe shuffling assets, and I`d like to ask Ray Giudice, would you move in on momma with divorce papers with full custody of the kids and assets before or after she`s convicted?
GRACE: Good question. What about it, Ray?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, right now the father`s -- the husband`s position is that he`s in love with her and he wants to be with her. But it raises an interesting point. You know, she could have filed for divorce and certainly gotten more than $50,000 in alimony and child support. So it`s all very curious.
GRACE: Well, Jason Oshins, I believe she feared she wouldn`t get custody because she just got out of rehab for alcohol.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Come on, Nancy. There`s a lot more to this. I mean, you listen to law enforcement.
GRACE: I didn`t say there wasn`t. I`m just telling you that regarding money, you know, she feared if she sought a divorce as opposed to faking this kidnapping she wasn`t so sure that she would get all that money.
OSHINS: It`s just disturbing, the whole aspect of it. The amount of money she`s even asking, as Ray said, it doesn`t all add up. There`s something more to scratch the surface. And listen, we`re defense attorneys. We`ve got to work with what we have here. And certainly the story in and of itself is so weak and so not thought out in terms of.
GRACE: You know what? Note to self.
OSHINS: Yes.
GRACE: When faking one`s own kidnapping, contact Oshins and Giudice because you guys are saying this with such a straight face. I`m interpreting what you last said was look, when you don`t have anywhere to go you`ve got to make up something, you`ve got to do something.
Out to the lines, Barbara in New York. Hi, Barbara.
BARBARA, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: What a tremendous honor to speak with you. I adore your shows, and I admire you so much for really everything that you do as a mother, as a journalist, as a writer. I have "Eleventh Victim." And I just think you`re awesome, Nancy Grace.
GRACE: You know, Barbara.
BARBARA: And tremendous blessings to you and your whole family, and your mom who forced you to go to church that day. Remember what you said, threatened you, I think.
GRACE: Yes.
BARBARA: . with reform school or something.
GRACE: Industrial school for girls to learn a trade. That`s what she said.
BARBARA: Regarding momma, she spent time in Hazelton to treat her alcoholism as per -- what her husband said in an interview. If you go to a place like Hazelton, I find it hard to believe that the health care professionals there didn`t pick up on the fact she was bipolar, which is why I don`t believe her husband right now.
GRACE: I think you`re right. And as he said, Barbara, you and I saw the same interview. It`s as of yet undiagnosed and untreated. The daddy`s just throwing something out there to see what sticks. She`s never been diagnosed as bipolar.
And you`re right. At Hazelton they would have found that. They are one of the premier rehabs in the world. You`re right, Barbara, in New York.
Everybody, I want to switch gears very quickly. I want to tell you about a missing little girl, Shaniya. It`s urgent. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Authorities say the little girl was inside the mobile home with her mother and another adult, both of whom are being questioned by police at police headquarters. Every car that`s been leaving the mobile home park is being searched by Fayetteville Police.
Police say they`ve made the disturbing discovery a known child sex offender lives inside the mobile home park.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s why we have the sheriff`s department out here as well. We have the expert out here from the sheriff`s department that deals with the child sex offenders. So they`re out here.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This is a picture of the little girl everybody`s been looking for.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This is the number to the Fayetteville Police Department. It is 910-433-1851. Or if you think you know something, if you think you see her, you can always just call 911.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We need your help. This little girl, if she is still living, needs your help. Look at this girl. Her name`s Shaniya Davis. She`s only 5.
To Gurnal Scott with WPTF Radio. Gurnal, something`s not right about the story. Give me the nuts and bolts of what happened.
GURNAL SCOTT, ANCHOR/REPORTER, WPTF RADIO: Well, as we know right now, Nancy, the child was last seen in the home around 5:30 or so in the morning. The call wasn`t made to police, or police didn`t respond, should I say, until about two hours later or so.
And that`s when the search ensued for this 5-year-old little girl, Shaniya. Helicopters, search dogs had been out. The thing about the search dogs, they never picked up a scent of the child outside the home. That`s a little disturbing to police officers because if there was any trace of the child outside the home they say the dogs would have picked that up.
So as of right now -- and the search has been called off for this evening, but as of right now police -- no one knows exactly where 5-year- old Shaniya is.
GRACE: I`m just sick about it, Gurnal Scott. You know, Gurnal Scott, you and I go back a long way covering stories.
SCOTT: Yes, we do.
GRACE: What are police saying about this? Or is simply their silence deafening?
SCOTT: Well, there are things we`re learning about this case as it goes along. We`re finding out that DSS was no stranger to this household. There had been custody issues that they have dealt with in this household from time to time.
There had -- at some point have been drugs found in this house. So they`re not saying that this is involved in this case per se, but if you`re a police officer and you`re doing this investigation you have to keep that in mind.
GRACE: Marlaina Schiavo, what more can you tell me?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, what I can tell you, Nancy, is that the police also don`t know how this little girl left the home. That`s still the mystery that we`re trying to figure out. They have questioned all the neighbors in the area including the three sex offenders that live in the immediate area.
So far no suspects at this time. So that`s what police are saying right now. And unfortunately, like Gurnal said, there were major -- they call it major DSS issues in that home. And DSS has visited that home many times.
GRACE: And Marc Klaas, president, founder, KlaasKids Foundation, when we`re saying DCFS we`re talking about Department of Family and Children`s Services. Weigh in, Marc Klaas.
KLAAS: Well, certainly, this is an unusual situation because the Amber alert was called very quickly after law enforcement responded regardless of the fact that they didn`t have a vehicle -- vehicle information for the suspect. And I think that that`s a credit to them because it brings vast resources to the case almost immediately.
The fact that the dogs were unable to pick up her scent certainly doesn`t mean she didn`t leave the trailer. It means that she was probably carried out of the trailer. Again, I think what we`re going to find in this case as in so many others is it`s going to be solved much closer to home than farther away from home.
GRACE: You know, you put that so beautifully that it would be solved close to home.
Everyone, we`re taking your calls live. With us, Marc Klaas, Gurnal Scott.
Tonight`s salute to the troops. Robin Gregory salutes her 24-year-old son Army Private First Class Aaron Oxenford. A musician who loves animals, especially his beloved dog back home, Curtis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN GREGORY, MOTHER: I`m Robin Gregory. My salute is going out to my wonderful son, Private First Class Aaron Oxenford. I`m sure he`s going to pick on me by the end of this because I am going to cry.
But, Aaron, we`re all very proud of you. We want you to be safe. Please know that we love you and we can`t wait for you to come home. I might not understand why you`ve joined the Army fully, but I`m very proud of what you`re doing.
I do want to let you know my dog still does not have hair. He shaved my dog`s hair off and it didn`t grow back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This is a picture of the little girl everybody`s been looking for. Police say 5-year-old Shaniya Davis disappeared this morning from her mobile home inside the Sleepy Hollow Mobile Home Park off Markesan Road. Authorities have been searching for her since they got a call from her mother this morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines, Sheeba, Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.
SHEEBA, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy. My question is, how -- and I just love you to pieces.
GRACE: Likewise.
SHEEBA: Love you to pieces. But my question is, how can two adults be in a house, whether they`re awake or asleep or whatever, and let a child be snatched? They would have to kill me, because I would grab an iron skillet, whatever it took, and I`d go to work on them.
GRACE: I tell you what, Sheeba, I`ve been thinking about this story. They say they last saw her at 5:30 a.m., this beautiful, beautiful little girl. Look at her. Shaniya, 5 years old.
Now I`ve been thinking about the scenario. All I can come up with, Gurnal Scott, WPTF Radio, assuming they`re telling the truth, that they looked in on her at 5:30 a.m., she was asleep, then later she was gone out of her bed. That`s the only scenario I can think of.
At 5:30 a.m. the sun`s not even up. They said she was wearing a blue sleep t-shirt and pink underwear. That`s all she was wearing. What do you know, Gurnal?
SCOTT: Well, that is correct. And again, what they`re saying about the people that were in the home at the time, Shaniya`s 7-year-old brother, the mother, and a person whom they have only identified possibly as a boyfriend.
They are looking at all of these people. They`ve interviewed these people but they`re still not being very specific about how this child left this home.
GRACE: Let me give the tip line, Gurnal. With me, Gurnal Scott, Marlaina Schiavo, Marc Klaas. 910. 433-1856. Please help us find Shaniya.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Staff Sergeant, Marcus Golczynski, 30, Lewisville, Tennessee, killed Iraq. An all-state wrestler. Volunteered for a second tour. Remembered for his zest for life and smile that lit up a home.
Never forgot a birthday, even sent birthday greetings from Iraq. Leaves behind parents Henry and Elaine, brother, John, son, Christian.
Marcus Golczynski, American hero.
Thank you to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And a special thank you to New York friend of the show, Clara, for this book, "The Complete Works of William Shakespeare."
Clara, the first female police officer in Wayne County, New York. She never misses the show.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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