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Campbell Brown

Best Military Option For Afghanistan?; Interview With Carrie Fisher

Aired November 11, 2009 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, here are the questions we want answered.

What's President Obama's best option in Afghanistan, 20,000 more troops, 30,000, 40,000? His war council just met.

GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: I think that we are, indeed, nearing a decision.

BROWN: Tonight, we will break down all the options.

Plus, why are some parts of the country swimming in H1N1 vaccine, while others can't get it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the expectations that were set have been difficult to meet.

BROWN: And why is Wall Street getting the vaccine before some kids?

Also, a special investigation into the Freemasons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somewhere around maybe a third of all U.S. presidents have been members of the fraternity.

BROWN: What power do they really hold over Washington? We will take you inside this secret society.

And our intriguing person, Carrie Fisher. She will always be remembered as Princess Leia.

CARRIE FISHER, ACTRESS: I did "Star Wars." I was 19. I thought it would be like a goof.

BROWN: Well, now she's taking her story of addiction, celebrity and bipolar disorder to the Broadway stage, and getting rave reviews.

FISHER: How tragic would it be to runner-up for bipolar woman of the year?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is your only source for news. CNN prime time begins now. Here's Campbell Brown. BROWN: Hi there, everybody.

We're going to start tonight as always with the "Mash-Up," our look at all the stories making an impact right now and the moments you may have missed today. We're watching it all, so you don't have to.

And we start tonight with some breaking news, President Obama huddling once again with his war council, the Associated Press reporting literally moments ago that he does not plan to accept any of the options before him, this news coming on a day, of course, when America is honoring its veterans, the president himself paying special tribute to the war dead. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: For President Obama, it's a second straight day of solemn tributes to Americans who have died in their country's service.

CHARLES GIBSON, HOST, "WORLD NEWS": President Obama took part in ceremonies at Arlington National Cemetery, placing a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns.

KATIE COURIC, HOST, "CBS EVENING NEWS": The president went where no commander in chief had laid foot before, Section 60 at Arlington, where veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, the war he now leads, are laid to rest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the president came out throughout the cemetery and talked with all the families that are out here today, and said hi and offered his condolences to all of us in the cemetery, which I thought was very nice of him to take the time out to do that and to remember our soldiers.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When your tour ends, when you see our flag, when you touch our soil, you will be home in an America that is forever here for you, just as you have been there for us.

That is my promise, our nation's promise, to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Again, with so much focus right now on Afghanistan, the Associated Press reporting tonight that the president does not plan to accept any of the war options that have been laid out to him by his national security team -- the AP reporting that, instead, he is pushing for revisions to clarify how and when U.S. troops would turn over responsibility to the Afghan government.

Again, this is an Associated Press report. The president is still expected to make some sort of announcement after he returns from Asia about what a revamped strategy in Afghanistan would look like. We're going to have a whole lot more on this story coming up a few minutes later in the hour. Meantime, retired General Colin Powell is telling the president not to let himself be rushed into any decision. Powell was interviewed by Roland Martin on the Tom Joyner show. Take a look.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: What I have advised him is to not be rushed into a decision, because this one is the decision that will have consequences for years to come.

So, Mr. President don't get pushed by the left to do nothing. Don't get pushed by the right to do everything. You take your time and you figure it out. You're the commander in chief in chief and this is what you were elected for.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BROWN: Powell says the president needs time to fully understand what additional troops, if that ultimately is the decision, would do, and how likely they would be to succeed, if indeed they do decide to put additional troops on the ground.

Again, we are going to cover much more on the story a little bit later in the program.

Moving on, turning now to Fort Hood, to Texas, and new details tonight about the man accused of murdering 13 people there last week. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nidal Hasan not only contacted a radical cleric in Yemen, but it's believed he also got communications back from that cleric. Investigators say, during that time, that cleric, Anwar al-Awlaki, was the subject of a federal probe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He seemed to live in cyberspace. Law enforcement sources say he was a prolific communicator. And now that they have his computer, they are tracking back through his multiple e- mail accounts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Former Army colleagues of Hasan's tell National Public Radio tonight that some of them worried a year ago that he might be mentally disturbed. One reportedly even wondered aloud if he was capable of killing fellow soldiers, but they apparently never followed through by filing any formal complaints.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In August, Major Nidal Hasan walked into this Killeen, Texas, gun store, sources say, and legally purchased the gun that police believe was used to massacre soldiers at Fort Hood.

An FBI background check was done when Hasan purchased the pistol, but that information was never shared with the joint terrorism task force.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: A soldier wounded in the Fort Hood attack today describing Hasan's rampage to CNN as swift and tactical.

Meantime, the hero cop who brought an end to the rampage speaking publicly today for the very first time Sergeant Kimberly Munley telling her story to, who else, Oprah Winfrey.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": Was there a moment of confusion or uncertainty?

SERGEANT KIMBERLY MUNLEY, FORT HOOD POLICE; Yes. The entire incident was very confusing and chaotic. There was many people outside pointing in to direction that this individual was apparently located.

And as soon as I got out of my vehicle and ran up the hill is -- is when things started getting pretty bad and we started encountering fire.

When I got shot, it felt like honestly a muscle being torn out of my leg.

WINFREY: Have you had a chance to process all of this?

MUNLEY: I take it day by day. And I know it's going to be a -- a slow process to get back to my normal life, but I know that I can accomplish it and get back to -- to what I do and love to do on a daily basis. So I think that it will come in time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Sergeant Munley was shot three times. She tells Oprah she's doing well, and the 5'2'' cop confirmed that, yes, her nickname really is Mighty Mouse.

Turning now to an investigative expose by none other than Jon Stewart, yes, Jon Stewart. He was watching FOX News coverage of last Thursday's tea party protests on Capitol Hill and noticed something that was, well, a little bit off. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART")

JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": Change was in the air. And FOX News was there to cover it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People didn't just come to hear speakers. They then pivoted, fanned out, went into the Capitol, went into the office buildings, were very polite, went from door to door to door, knocked on the doors. We handed out, actually, pages, actual pages from the bill.

STEWART: I'm sorry. Can we come back? That was -- I apologize. I didn't mean to interrupt. That was weird, because, when that clip started, it was a clear fall day in Washington, D.C., not a cloud in the sky. The leaves have changed. It's well-attended, but sparse.

All of a sudden, the trees turn green again.

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: And it is cloudy.

(APPLAUSE)

STEWART: And it looks like thousands of thousands and thousands of more people arrived. If I didn't know any better, I would think they just put two different days together...

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: ... and acted like they didn't.

Where -- where have I seen this last footage before?

GLENN BECK, HOST, "GLENN BECK": This is just a fraction. There are people meeting all across the country. This is just in Washington, D.C.

STEWART: Wow. That was actually from Glenn Beck's 9/12 rally two months ago, his much bigger 9/12 rally.

It seems Sean Hannity used footage of a bigger crowd from a totally different...

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: ... event to make last year's GOP health care rally appear more heavily attended.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: FOX News promising a response later tonight.

And now to a mystery involving baseball player Sammy Sosa. He is looking a little bit different these days. His skin, check it out here in the photo, noticeably lighter. What exactly is going on?

Here's Sosa's explanation to Univision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMMY SOSA, FORMER MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYER (through translator): When I played all those years, I treated my skin badly and damaged it. So, since I'm not playing anymore and not getting so much sun, I have been using a face cream to heal my sun-damaged skin.

And it has lightened my skin color, and it has created a controversy that really has me surprised, because, my God, I haven't done anything to cause this change.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: And that face cream that Sosa says he's been using? Well, now there's word he's thinking about endorsing it and marketing it. Still, he insists he did not intend to lighten his skin.

OK.

And that brings us to the "Punchline." This is courtesy of Mr. Conan O'Brien, exploring the mysteries of online social networking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH CONAN O'BRIEN": A new study just came out, and it tells you that you can -- well, it shows that you can tell a lot -- tell a lot about a person just by looking at the photos they post on Facebook. Did you know that?

Yes, for instance, if your high school friend's profile picture is a shot of their child and not them, that means they have gotten fat.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Conan O'Brien, everybody. And that is the "Mash-Up."

Breaking news tonight when we come back about H1N1 -- the number of deaths much higher from that flu than previously thought. We're going to have a whole lot more on that coming up next.

Plus, our special investigation, "Secret Societies" -- tonight, we look in to the Freemasons. A third of U.S. presidents have belonged to the group. There's been endless conspiracy theories about them, so what are they really up to?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Breaking news tonight, the Associated Press reporting that the CDC will announce at least 4,000 Americans have died from the H1N1 flu, either from the virus itself or from related complications.

And that is more than triple the number of deaths in previous estimates. Tonight, we want to know why the vaccine distribution process has been so uneven. People in some parts of the country can't find it at all. Other areas have so much that nobody's showing up when it is offered.

So, we're going to start with our Tom Foreman, who is taking a look and breaking all of this down for us.

Tom, what do you got?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, you have hit the nail on the head there.

As you may know, there's a significant gap in this country between wanting a vaccination and getting it in some places. I am going to walk you through three reasons why.

First, production started slowly. We all know about that. There were technical problems. But this chart shows how the supply of vaccine has increased relatively recently here. And this is good. Look, this is one month ago. It's way down here. Now look over here. It's really quite close over here, getting up toward this 40,000 -- or 40 million mark here, so that's a good number of doses available.

The problem is, the government predicted a lot more a whole lot earlier, and they told us to get shots. So, they set up this imbalance in the supply and demand, Campbell, so that was the first problem.

BROWN: OK. But that's one big issue here. But now that I guess it's more available than it has been, why can't certain folks still get it?

FOREMAN: Well, that's the second problem.

This is a Google map of which states are really being hit the hardest right now by the flu. But flu vaccine distribution's based on population, so it's not always the worst-hit areas that are getting the vaccine, not necessarily.

For example, let's look at this. Illinois has received more than a million doses of this. Right next door, Indiana has only about 600,000. Now, if you do the whole math on it, you will actually find out that the numbers might actually favor Indiana based on overall population.

But you can see, depending on where you live and how the states distribute it, you might feel left out. Or if you live right across the border from one place, you might say, how come it's so much better over there -- Campbell.

BROWN: And what's your third reason there, Tom?

FOREMAN: And my third reason, the third one may be the one that drives people craziest of all.

If you look at this, for the states to actually get this, they have to request it from the federal government. They have to tell the feds where to ship these doses, to which clinics, doctors' offices, hospitals, even shopping malls, wherever you may get a shot. And that process is lagging.

The paperwork, sort of the bureaucracy of this, is lagging. So, the available supply you see is right up here, but if we go down here and we show the actual delivery of it, that's more like down here. So, while we have this much available, by the time you finish all the paperwork, you have got this coming in, somewhere around nine million, 10 million -- or billion below -- or million -- below the actual supply.

So, you can see it's about 25 percent lower overall. Google is trying to help with a flu shot finder of sorts, which I will show you right here. You can go on here to their Google.com/flushot and you can search near you to see if you can find a place that has one.

We looked in several communities, couldn't find the swine flu shot. Then we went up to Seattle and we found one pretty easily up there. So, it's one tool that you might use. But the overall picture here is that your ability to get a vaccine sooner or later may depend not only on this overall supply, which they're still trying to build up...

BROWN: Right.

FOREMAN: ... but also how much local demand there is for it, where you live, and, frankly, how well your state and local officials did in competing for those doses that are out there, which, as you know, Campbell, in some places, people really, really want.

BROWN: It's so true, Tom. I mean, there's so many anecdotal stories that pile up on top of what you have just laid out for us about people really struggling to find it right now.

Tom Foreman for us tonight -- Tom, thank you so much.

I want to bring in right now New Jersey Congressman Frank Pallone. And he is a Democrat. He chairs the subcommittee that oversees the CDC.

And I know, Congressman, you are planning to have hearings on all of this, I think, next week. You just heard Tom Foreman break it down for us. It looks like a mess. What do you think happened here?

REP. FRANK PALLONE (D), NEW JERSEY: Well, there are a number of factors, and I think Tom raised a lot of them.

I think part of the problem was that this was a very slow-growing vaccine. Even though it's actually a very good vaccine that's very effective, it was not anticipated that it was going to be this difficult to grow. And so that was the problem in getting it out there.

And -- and we're now picking up the pace. Another manufacturer was approved today. So, more is getting out. But that was the initial problem. The other thing is, as Tom mentioned, is that since the states distribute it, the distribution has varied.

And it is true, as Tom said, that there are many places that are -- are -- you know, are going without, where other places have too much. So, that's why we're having this hearing in my Health Subcommittee next Wednesday to try to get to the bottom of this and improve the situation.

BROWN: So, do you think that was a mistake in terms of how they planned the distribution? Because we all have anecdotal stories to describe how hard it is or isn't hard to get. I have got a sister in Washington state who has had no trouble in getting it, other family in Louisiana who can't get it at all. It seems like it's varied across the country. PALLONE: Well, the CDC, Centers for Disease Control, did set up guidelines for distribution, but it was still up to the states to decide how to do it.

And I think the federal government's theory was that the states knew best. They probably would be able to figure out how to get the supply out as quickly as possible. But that does create variations. So, one issue would be, you know, does the federal government need to do more to control the distribution than we have?

BROWN: So, on top of all this, I know I don't have to tell you about the story that came out just a short time ago, a few days ago, about Goldman Sachs and some of the other Wall Street banks getting the vaccine. I know that happened here in New York, where certain hospitals in New York and schools are still waiting.

How does something like this happen?

PALLONE: Well, that concerns me a great deal. I mean, essentially what the -- New York did, from what I understand, is, they gave it out to larger employers, who they felt would be better in distributing it.

You know, obviously, a large company like Goldman Sachs has a health clinic. And they have a better distribution system. But the problem is that if you just give it...

BROWN: There are not a lot of kids working at Goldman Sachs.

PALLONE: Exactly. Exactly.

BROWN: There are not a lot of pregnant women there probably either.

(CROSSTALK)

PALLONE: I think that has to be looked at, and certainly one of the things we are going to be looking at, at this hearing next Wednesday, because if you give it to the people that are best at distributing it, like the big firms, well, that means that those who maybe have a greater need don't get it.

BROWN: Absolutely. And full disclosure here, our parent company, Time Warner, also received it ahead of a lot of schools and hospitals here in New York City.

So, we're glad you're looking into this.

Congressman, appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.

PALLONE: Thank you.

BROWN: And we do have more breaking news we want to follow up on, President Obama deciding how many more troops to send to Afghanistan. The AP says he is rejecting the options that have been laid out to him by his war council -- that coming up. Plus, the Freemasons, how powerful are they? And what are they really up to? It's part of our special investigation into secret societies -- that coming up as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Remember Princess Leia from "Star Wars"? Well, Carrie Fisher has a show on Broadway. She's talking very honestly about her bipolar disorder, about electric shock therapy. You are going to hear from her coming up.

(NEWS BREAK)

BROWN: We will take a closer look at tonight's breaking news we have been telling you about, the AP reporting President Obama is rejecting the options that he's been getting from his war council about sending more troops to Afghanistan. Our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley, joining us with more on this coming up next.

Plus, tonight's intriguing person, actress Carrie Fisher, you may know her, of course, as Princess Leia. Tonight, she shares a very personal, funny side of life -- yes, funny -- with bipolar disorder, electric shock therapy, and drug addiction.

And, yes, she is funny.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Breaking news tonight from the White House.

The Associated Press reports President Obama doesn't plan to accept any of the Afghanistan war options presented to him by his war council, the AP quoting a senior administration official who says the president is instead pushing for revisions to clarify how and when U.S. troops would turn over responsibility to the Afghan government, the choices laid out by the president's team now likely to be amended.

General David Petraeus was in the room, but told CNN earlier today that the president's final decision will come soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETRAEUS: We are, indeed, nearing a decision on this very important topic. And I think it's very, very essential that we recall why it is that we are in Afghanistan, and that is to ensure that that country doesn't once again become a sanctuary or safe haven for al Qaeda and the kind of transnational extremists that carried out the 9/11 attacks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Let's bring in right now "Washington Post" military affairs correspondent, Greg Jaffe, who is joining us. He's also the author of the book "The Fourth Star: Four Generals and the Epic Struggle for the Future of the United States Army." Also with us, Rick Nelson, who is a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. And our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley, is joining us by phone right now.

And, Candy, let me just start with you.

You heard the AP report. Assuming this is true, explain to us what this means.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it means that President Obama has looked at these varying options, where we are led to believe it is, you know, maybe up to 30,000 troops, maybe more, in terms of what the options are.

But the president is also looking at a very unpopular war at this point. We just had a poll out today -- 56 percent of Americans oppose the war in Afghanistan. He's getting huge flak from the Democratic Party, many leaders in the Democratic Party saying, don't send any more troops.

On the other hand, he has these military leaders saying, we need 30,000, 40,000, whatever it is.

What the president needs and what it seems this report is saying is, the president needs an exit strategy, because, in order to address the criticism, in order to assure Americans that this is not another Vietnam, that this is not another swamp, he, it seems to me, from looking at this, clearly needs some way to assure the critics, this isn't forever.

This is made more difficult, of course, by the fact that the Afghan government at this point and all of the problems that Karzai has had with the elections is huge here, because you have to be able to hand it over to someone to assure that chaos does not follow you when you go out the door.

So, I think this is about coupling an increase in troops, however many he decides on, with an exit strategy and some plan to hand over the government to a government that's stable.

BROWN: And to that point, let me bring Greg in, because, Greg, I know you've been doing some additional reporting on this, regarding some urgent messages that the U.S. ambassador in Kabul has sent to the White House, and that was in advance of today's meeting. What can you tell us about that?

GREG JAFFE, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, Ambassador Karl Eikenberry who is a general himself, he was a top commander, top U.S. commander in Afghanistan in '06/'07, and I think he's saying hey, wait a minute, let's be careful here. We have a government that is a mess, and, you know, before we pump more troops into this, we've got to make sure that we're transitioning into a government that's a reliable partner and right now it's not clear that we have a reliable partner in the Afghan government.

BROWN: And to that, Rick, you know, the focus has been on troop numbers, and probably not enough, I guess, attention on sort of what's going on with the Karzai government. You have an understanding of it. Explain to us, given the situation on the ground, why this is so troubling?

RICK NELSON, SENIOR FELLOW, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Well, I think when -- we went into Afghanistan, the president put forth his strategy last March, there was an anticipation that the elections would be successful and Karzai's rule would be validated. When the elections failed, I think it put into question some of the president's goals he articulated in his strategy which require a credible, legitimate government to hand over the situation to. Eventually you want to put this issue and the situation back in the hands of the Afghan people and the only way you can do that is with a government that's recognized nationally throughout the country.

BROWN: Let me go back to Greg for a quick second. Given what the ambassador, you know, is saying to the White House, I mean, it's very much at odds with the Pentagon or what the commander on the ground at least. How is this being received at the Pentagon?

JAFFE: You know, I think the Pentagon is a little frustrated to be perfectly honest. You know, they sent McChrystal over there. They told him, hey, tell us what you need. We want a high-energy general. We want to make a difference now. We really want to seize the momentum. And General McChrystal did that, and we've been waiting for several months. So I think there's a fair amount of frustration.

I think there's a little frustration with Ambassador Eikenberry to be frank as well, to sort of weigh in at the last minute and say, hey, wait a minute, I think they would have liked to have seen him weigh in with these cables a little bit earlier.

BROWN: Yes, absolutely.

Candy, you touched on this point a little bit earlier. We also have some polling that backs you up. A new CNN poll shows how pessimistic Americans are about these plans, about whether or not they'll succeed. Only 32 percent of Americans believe that there will eventually be a stable, Democratic government in Afghanistan.

So, given that, what do you think is weighing more on the White House right now? Is it the politics of this? Or is it the military part of it, the strategy?

CROWLEY: I think, in the end, this has to be, for any president, about the military part, and specifically about what this White House has been saying. Like, what is our objective here? And one has to assume the long-term objective is at some point to get out of there and leave, you know, having said, well, we've gotten Al Qaeda out of Afghanistan and now there's a stable government, and they can deal with it. And so that has to be, foremost, but that doesn't mean that there aren't political implications, because you cannot sustain a military operation without public support. You can't sustain it for long.

And so the president has to weigh that, because this is not just about making a decision. It's about explaining it to the American people because you -- we have known since Vietnam that you cannot conduct an unpopular war because it just won't be sustained. So, that clearly has to weigh on their mind as well. But we are, therefore, a military objective. We are there for a reason, so that has to be the first thing you do.

And I will say that part of what, I think, has kind of weighed on them is they are getting so much pressure to make a decision. And what we've heard ever since the elections and the instability of the current government is from critics who think the president's taking too long, saying, this isn't about the Afghanistan government. This is about the U.S. troops that are already there, and they need help. So, there are these two sort of competing things, the idea we need to somehow know where the end game is, how we're getting out, and we have to have a stable government for that. So, it's enormously, enormously complicated. And in the end, the president has got to have the American public behind him.

BROWN: All right, Candy Crowley for us tonight. Rick Nelson as well, Greg Jaffe who, of course, will have reporting on this in tomorrow's "Washington Post." Many thanks, guys, appreciate it.

When we come back, our special investigation of secret societies. That starts in just a moment. Tonight, the freemasons, are they really the hidden power in behind-the-scenes Washington?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK FLETCHER, MASONIC ASSOCIATION OF NORTH AMERICA: They believed in the principles of freemasonry and to that extent, the extent of truthfulness and the extent of ethics and honor and morality. Yes, I truly hope freemasonry had an influence in their lives.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But it wasn't a conspiracy?

FLETCHER: Oh, absolutely not. That's just foolishness.

FOREMAN: Or is it, or you're just not telling me because it's a secret?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Tonight we're beginning a two-part special investigation of secret societies. You know their names. You probably heard the rumors. Well, now get the facts, and we're going to start with the freemasons.

Five million people around the world are believed to be members. More of them than you might think are in positions of power in Washington, and that has led to plenty of conspiracy theories about masons controlling our government. So, we put Tom Foreman on the case to get the real story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cloaked in mystery, their ways hidden from view. One of the greatest secret societies holds a centuries-old sway over Washington, the masons.

Or, maybe not. I met Dick Fletcher across from the White House. He's a top official with the masons, or freemasons, as they're also known, and here amid statues of revolutionary war heroes, he tells us many of them were, indeed, masons.

DICK FLETCHER, MASONIC ASSOCIATION OF NORTH AMERICA: They believed in the principles of freemasonry, and to that extent, the extent of truthfulness and the extent of ethics and honor and morality. Yes, I truly hope freemasonry had an influence in their lives.

FOREMAN (on camera): But it wasn't a conspiracy.

FLETCHER: Oh, absolutely not. That's just foolishness.

FOREMAN: Or is it, or you're just not telling me because it's a secret?

(voice-over): The fraternity of masons is so old, no one knows precisely how it originated. Only that it began among European stonemasons and in America has included a cross-section of historic figures. Thurgood Marshall, John Wayne, Harry Houdini, artists, astronauts and many more. The masons' political influence is legendary, traced in the book "Revolutionary Brotherhood" by Worcester Polytech professor Steven Bullock.

STEVEN C. BULLOCK, WORCESTER POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTE: Making a political career often involved joining the freemasons and becoming part of that. So, in American history, somewhere around maybe a third of all U.S. presidents have been members in the fraternity.

This is the temple room.

FOREMAN: So, how do men who gather for fellowship and to raise countless millions for charities draw so much suspicion? Part of it, Fletcher knows, revolves around their initiation rite, in which a new member kneels at an altar bearing the holy books of the world's great religions and takes a secret oath.

FLETCHER: It is not meant to be a show. It is something that is restricted to those of us that become freemasons.

FOREMAN: But that has spawned centuries of suspicion readily apparent these days on the Internet. People questioning the Masonic requirement that a man need only profess his belief in one God, so Muslims, Jews, Christians and others can all belong.

BULLOCK: That has raised some fears on the part of particularly conservative Christians who are fearful that freemasonry has some sort of religious element, and they're fearful that it brings people away from the church. FOREMAN: The conspiracy crowd looks at things like this extraordinary Masonic monument in Virginia and sees an even bigger plot for a single world government under Masonic rule.

(on camera): Conspiracy theorists suggest famous masons like George Washington and his brethren embedded their belief in the very fabric of our nation, for example, on the $1 bill. Look at the pyramid with the all-seeing eye up on top. And in the map of Washington itself. Look at this, if you start at the White House and you simply connect some famous landmarks, you wind up with an upside down pentagram.

(voice-over): Satan worship, global domination, has Professor Bullock, who is not a mason, by the way, ever seen evidence of any of that?

BULLOCK: I haven't.

FOREMAN: And neither has Fletcher.

(on camera): You know, you take all the fun out of this when you say it's not a big secret.

FLETCHER: I know it. I know it.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Of course, if he had a secret -- how would we know?

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And our special investigation continues tomorrow night with my report on "Skull and Bones." Yale University's secret society. It counts both George W. Bush and John Kerry as members.

Coming up next, tonight's intriguing person, Carrie Fisher opens up about the darkest parts of her past, including drug abuse, bipolar disorder and electric shock therapy. And she's actually very funny about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARRIE FISHER, ACTRESS, AUTHOR: Yes, I didn't ever go through menopause. I went through it all my life. You know, how would I have recognized which part is menopause and which part is the bipolar thing? So, I was dropped into the middle of my personality years ago, and I've been trying to make my way to the end of it ever since.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Tonight's "Intriguing Person," Carrie Fisher. As the daughter of Debbie Reynolds and Eddie Fisher, she has been a celebrity since birth and an icon since playing Princess Leia in "Star Wars." She tells her own true Hollywood story, complete with tales about drug addiction, electric shock therapy in her book "Wishful Drinking" which is now a one-woman show on Broadway. Here is a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARRIE FISHER, ACTRESS, AUTHOR: All right, welcome, class, to Hollywood 101. Thank you so much for enrolling.

All right. So, over here we have Debbie and Eddie. In the '50s, they were known as America's sweethearts. For those of you that are younger, all three of you, and you can't -- you know, you can't relate to any of this. Try to think of it this way, think of Eddie as Brad Pitt, Debbie as Jennifer Aniston and Elizabeth as Angelina Jolie.

(LAUGHTER)

Does that help? That should really help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So much of the story centers around your Hollywood upbringing, which is fascinating for a lot of people obviously, who didn't have quite the unique upbringing, shall we say, that you did. But do you ever regret growing up that way?

CARRIE FISHER, ACTRESS, AUTHOR: I'm not a big regret --

BROWN: Person?

FISHER: If regretting was aerobic, I might have gotten into it. But since it's really decidedly an unattractive response to, I sort of think regret as like self-pity. Certainly there are things you can't avoid regretting. I do regret any difficulty my daughter experienced from having had a mother who's bipolar and so forth.

BROWN: Did you ever think of not going into show business, of being a doctor or an engineer.

FISHER: Oh, God, yes.

BROWN: Yes?

FISHER: It's a bigger trick and my family was not to go into but to stay out of it. I would have had to have been a magician to stay out of show business.

BROWN: Really?

FISHER: I was put in nightclubs, put in them, when I was 13. I did not want to go into show business. It did not appeal.

BROWN: But --

FISHER: But I have a very good reason. I -- when I became a teenager, which I did so at my peril, my parents, both their careers were, you know, their bright, white hot star of celebrity was slowly dimming and fading.

BROWN: Right.

FISHER: Cooling. And it scared me. I mean, I saw what it did to them. It hurt them.

You know, what I see is celebrity is just obscurity biding its time. I mean, you're not going to stay at this some fantastic level of, oh, I love your -- you know. It's going to go away.

BROWN: But why do you think -- I mean, it's astounding sometimes when you watch especially these young people today, the people in reality television world...

FISHER: They don't know.

BROWN: ... they will do anything --

FISHER: I know.

BROWN: ... for even a taste of it.

FISHER: So, they get the taste of it and then they keep chewing. The taste goes away. And it goes away, especially this kind of reality TV kind. When you're not being celebrated for actually some sort of talent, you're just being celebrated for being a spectacle.

When I got famous, I did "Star Wars." The second film I did, I was 19. I thought it would be like a goof. It misbehaved itself and did what it did. And from then on I just was watching the clock. Yes.

And I think people confuse, you know, celebrity with acceptance, with approval, with love. All these people are going to love you, and then you'll be able to love yourself.

BROWN: It's so misguided. And yet you see it repeated over and over and over again.

FISHER: It's attention. It's attention. How can attention be bad?

BROWN: Let me -- let me play a clip for the -- for the audience from the show, another clip. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY ROUNDABOUT THEATRE COMPANY STUDIO AT 54)

FISHER: I now get awards all the time, for being mentally ill. I am apparently very good at it. And I get honored for it regularly.

Now, I think one of the reasons that I'm such a shoo-in is there's no swimsuit portion of the competition. Well, come on. It's better than being bad at being mentally ill, right? I mean, how tragic would it be to be runner-up for bipolar woman of the year?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: OK. First of all, you couldn't even watch that.

FISHER: Oh, I didn't know it was -- oh, I live it every night. Yes, I don't like looking at myself. I don't mind listening. I'm more identified with, you know, the furniture than the house.

I'm older now. I didn't like looking at myself when I should have. So, part of the time, though, I do think, well, wait a second, now, in 20 years down, I'm going to wish I looked like this, which I don't like looking like now. So, I'm not -- I don't have a good relationship with my physical appearance.

BROWN: The clip, you talk about bipolar disorder. You mentioned that earlier. And you have said that being bipolar makes everything else in life easy. Explain that.

FISHER: It actually makes -- it just -- it's a dialed-up experience. Everyone's moody. So, this is like take it, you know, I feel like --

BROWN: Moodiness on steroids.

FISHER: Yes. I mean, I didn't ever go through menopause. I went through it all my life. You know, how would I have recognized which part is menopause and which part is the bipolar thing? So, I was dropped into the middle of my personality years ago, and I've been trying to make my way to the end of it ever since.

BROWN: You are literally the poster child for bipolar disorder, by that I mean, there's a photo of you in an abnormal psychology textbook.

FISHER: And I only knew that because my brother's stepdaughter --

BROWN: Took the class or something?

FISHER: Took psychology in college and told me I was in the book. And I thought, like I said, what picture?

BROWN: How surreal --

FISHER: No one ever called me. Is there a shot of me looking all bummed out or really manic shopping (ph).

BROWN: No, it's Princess Leia.

FISHER: Yes. Where are the shopping shots? The drug-taking shots?

BROWN: So, why be so open about it?

FISHER: If I could have gotten through the thing I got through, you know, I -- I'm built to overcome. You know, unfortunately to find that out, you have to be tested. And I have been tested. And so I think if I can do this, and I have to say, if my life wasn't funny, it would just be true. Some of the stuff, it was certainly not funny at the time, but I have put into words what I have wanted to take out of emotion. So that it's sort of this is the wet world of emotion, words are dry. So, I won't drown.

BROWN: Well, this is heavy stuff. I mean, you are open about electric shock therapy.

FISHER: You know, it's just incredibly effective. Incredibly effective.

BROWN: It really helped you a lot?

FISHER: They put you to sleep now. There's no more convulsions. They have this medication called (INAUDIBLE) or something, dirty sounding, and that -- that freezes your muscles, so they should really call it E.T.

BROWN: Your father famously --

FISHER: Who watches this show.

BROWN: Yes.

FISHER: So, hi, dad.

BROWN: A huge CNN fan, left your mother for Elizabeth Taylor.

FISHER: Ooh.

BROWN: Yes, as you might have heard. But you ended up becoming friends with her.

FISHER: Why not?

BROWN: So, how did that happen?

FISHER: I made a joke at an AIDS benefit that I'd gotten flowers from Elizabeth Taylor, and that when I received them, I knew they were, you know, an apology for taking my father away 30 years ago. And -- but it just said thank you for doing the AIDS event.

BROWN: Right.

FISHER: But I could read an apology between the lines. She invited me over and said, I mean, you know, is there something we should talk about? And she was very, very sweet. She did it. She's a lovely woman.

BROWN: What do you want to accomplish still?

FISHER: World peace. I'm really, really up for stopping that.

BROWN: So, if there was a number two on your list, what might it be? FISHER: Weight loss. Actually getting, you know, really getting people, you know, easier about being bipolar, that would be fun. And also easy, too, that you know, that they're trying to outlaw it.

BROWN: Do you feel like the show is accomplishing that?

FISHER: I basically say, you know, when you see my show, you're going to be so glad that you have your life and not mine. But I've had some fantastic -- I've had great stuff in my life.

You know, a grateful person is a happy person, and those who aren't ain't, and I am a grateful person, very. And I've been given things to overcome and I've made those liabilities my assets. I make a living out of things that almost killed me, by making fun of all those things that almost killed me.

BROWN: Well, the show is getting, as we said before, rave reviews. So good to have you here. Really appreciate it.

FISHER: It was good to be here. Bye, dad.

BROWN: Carrie fisher.

And we're going to be back. We have more breaking news to tell you about after the break, including what could be a House plan right now to raise payroll taxes to pay for health care. That after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: If you're just tuning in, a lot of breaking news this hour. Erica Hill back with us with the "Download."

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Campbell, including this story which is just breaking in the last few minutes.

"The Associated Press" reporting Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid now considering higher payroll taxes for the wealthy as part of a health care reform bill. Democratic officials tell the "AP" Reid is thinking about raising the Medicare part of the payroll tax for those who make more than $250,000 a year.

Another breaking story at this hour, the "AP" reporting President Obama is not satisfied with any of the options given to him on sending more troops to Afghanistan. A senior administration official says the president is pushing to clarify how and when U.S. troops would turn over responsibility to the Afghan government.

And we are also just getting word tonight that boxing champ Mike Tyson has been detained by police at LAX, Los Angeles International Airport. Police there say they're investigating a possible battery at the United Airlines ticket counter. Not offering more details than that, but it apparently happened about an hour ago, so we'll continue to follow that story as well as everything else for you through the night.

BROWN: All right. We look forward to hearing more details on that. Well, Erica Hill for us tonight.

That is it for us. "LARRY KING LIVE" is coming up next.