Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Alleged Fort Hood Shooter Charged With Murder; President Obama Ponders Afghanistan Decision

Aired November 12, 2009 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): New war video out of Afghanistan, as it appears the president is on the brink of a major announcement.

CARRIE PREJEAN, FORMER MISS CALIFORNIA: You're being inappropriate.

SANCHEZ: Why is Carrie Prejean taking off her microphone? A blowout with Larry King? You are going to see it.

For asking for directions, he's clubbed over the head. Why? A bloody and painful lesson for all of us about stereotyping.

Also, remember this:

(on camera): AIG. AIG. AIG. Who you talking about? AIG.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: AIG.

SANCHEZ: AIG. AIG. AIG.

SANCHEZ: (voice-over): Wall Street's unbridled greed and ignorance straight from the guy who wrote the book on it, literally. "The New York Times" bad boy, Andrew Sorkin, joins me live right here on your national conversation for Thursday, November 12, 2009.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news, because it is a conversation with you.

Yes, there are new developments on the massacre at Fort Hood. As of a short time ago, Nidal Hasan, the white-robed Army psychiatrist who's accused of opening fire while screaming the equivalent of "God is great" has been charged with multiple murders.

Hasan is being hit with 13 counts of premeditated murder, one for each of the victims who met their end, not on the field of battle, but within the secured grounds of Fort Hood Army Base in Killeen, Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER GREY, ARMY CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION COMMAND: Today, I have confirmed that U.S. Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan, a 39-year-old psychiatrist assigned to Darnall Medical Center here at Fort Hood, has been charged with 13 specifications of premeditated murder under Article 118 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: There is something else I need to tell you. Today, the president ordered a review of all intelligence related to the Major Hasan case, in particular, whether warning signs about Hasan's behavior were properly dealt with. Remember, we talked about this yesterday right here on this show. Also were his contacts with a radical Muslim cleric properly explored?

The FBI says the conversation wasn't that big a deal. Well, guess what, FBI? After knowing what we know now, maybe they were.

All right, as we absorb that news, there is a disturbing story that's coming out of Tampa, Florida, which may be in many ways a sign of what some have been warning us about, an anti-Muslim backlash from within the ranks of the military.

Anger is understandable, right? Of course it is. Taking it out on somebody who has nothing to do with your anger, that's not so understandable, folks. Marine Reservist Jason Bruce has been charged with aggravated battery for beating a bearded robed man who approached him in a garage.

He allegedly beat the man with a tire iron. Why did he do it, you ask? Police say that Bruce told them the man approached him yelling "Allahu akbar," "God is great," and said that's what Muslims do just before they blow things up.

Well, here's the thing. The victim doesn't even speak "Allahu akbar." He's not even Muslim. He's Greek. In fact, he's an orthodox priest who police say was asking directions after getting lost driving home from ministering to the elderly.

Police say the only words that he uttered to Bruce were in broken English, and they were some kind of version of please and help me.

It gets complicated here because the police say that the Marine's accounts are numerous and conflicting. Not only does he say that the priest was yelling ""Allahu akbar." He also says that the priest tried to rob him. And then there's this as well. This is from the Marine's attorney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF BROWN, ATTORNEY FOR BRUCE: When this bearded individual in long robes and a sandal says something to him in a language he doesn't understand and the next thing you know, he's grabbing his genitals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Well, version number three is that this orthodox priest tried to grab him by the crotch. By the way, there's a lot to clear up in this story that may somehow involved some further embarrassing details. So, what we're going to do is try and be as responsible as we can, even if it means waiting. In fact, that's what we're going to do. I'm going to wait until the police release a surveillance tape and a 911 call. And then we will make decisions as to how to move forward, maybe as soon as tomorrow. And we will follow this up, as you would expect us to do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DAVID VITTER (R), LOUISIANA: Those eight states in particular.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Republican Senator David Vitter is confronted by a woman, and this one gets very ugly. You have got to see it and see why she is so angry about his voting record, among other things.

Also, speaking of being confronted, did you see Carrie Prejean on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE" last night? This is her meltdown. And it happens on national television, and we have got the scoop from somebody who's been following this as well.

And then the unequaled book on what really happened when the shameless Wall Street CEOs were completely freaking out last fall. Remember that, like between September and November? "The New York Times" Andrew Sorkin, who's documented this as no one else has, joins me live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Every once in a while, a politician's vote has a way of catching up with them. Sometimes, it happens literally.

I want to set the scene for you. This is out of Louisiana. There's a woman right there. She's following U.S. Senator David Vitter. She says she's a rape victim. You know why she's upset with Vitter? Because he failed to vote on a project that would have protected women who are raped by military contractors.

This has become a huge controversy. You may have heard about it before. It happened when another woman was allegedly raped by Halliburton contractors and was not allowed to sue? Why? She had to arbitrate it instead, by law, didn't get her day in court. An amendment was offered to change that. But David Vitter voted against it.

Well, here's the exchange between this woman in Louisiana and the senator.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VITTER: And nothing -- nothing in that amendment presents criminal...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can you support a company that tells a rape victim that she does not have right to defend herself?

VITTER: Ma'am (INAUDIBLE) not say that in any way, shape, or form.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... says a women does not have the right to defend themselves.

VITTER: Do you realize President Obama was against that amendment and his administration was against that amendment?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I'm not asking Obama. I am asking you.

(CROSSTALK)

VITTER: Do you think he's in favor of rape?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am asking you, Senator.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the woman with cancer, Senator?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What if it was your daughter that was raped? Would you tell her to be quiet?

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The senator did, for the record, take time, as you see, to speak to the constituent, but, ultimately, he did turn his back. He walked away. And she was following in some measure.

There's something else I want to tell you for the record that I need to tell you. The woman describes herself -- and we have checked -- as a political independent, neither a Democrat, nor a Republican. He, as you know, is a Republican.

Her confrontation, though, with Vitter was shot by a Democratic- affiliated photographer. And Louisiana Democrats organized the news conference where that same woman told her story about being raped. We just wanted to make sure you knew who was who in this story.

You also need to know that Senator Vitter has sent us this statement, which I'm about to gladly read.

It reads in part -- quote -- "Any case like this one, like the one that the woman was describing, is horrific. That's why I have always supported," he says, "prosecutions and pushed legislation -- criminal prosecutions and pushed legislation to increase jail time and make prosecutions from incidents overseas easier."

He goes on to read: "But the Franken amendment is far broader and would hurt our military's ability to get the help it needs. That's why President Obama opposed it, and that's why I oppose it."

That's from Senator Vitter, Republican, Louisiana.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALTER LARA, STUDENT FEATURED IN "PAPERS": I look back and I don't really know what I did wrong. I was good in school, like, you know, they teach you in school, like, got a 4.7 GPA.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: He could be my son, right? He's clean, he's sober, he's a straight-A student. So, let's deport him. Why?

Also, sometimes, the best way of getting back at somebody is to do it yourself. And this video shows exactly what I'm going to be talking about.

And, then, of course, the story that many people are talking about, but we're going to be digging a little deeper into this. Carrie Prejean, she's revealed herself, so to speak, on a sex tape, and now on "LARRY KING LIVE." What's next, a book? Oh, she's got that already?

You have got to watch what is coming up. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

That hum and buzz you hear is the sound of the CNN headquarters here in Atlanta. There are a couple of pops that we're getting here in the Twitter feed. So, let's check on them, if we possible can.

And here we go. Boy, Larry King getting a lot of love so far and we haven't even run the story. "Maybe Prejean was scared that Larry King would ask her about being inappropriate by making a sex video of herself."

Then, another one, Hawkeye says: "Larry King did nothing wrong last night. Carrie was rude to Larry."

And there you go.

All right, I want you to think back to when you were a 17-year-old kid, about to graduate from high school. The rest of your life is ahead of you, so you think to yourself, and then someone says, hey, I know you should sound American, feel American, and then think of yourself as a regular American kid, after you have grown up in the United States. You speak English, just like the rest of us. You barely speak Spanish or any other language from where maybe your family came from. But guess what? People are telling you, get out. That is what is happening to thousands of kids in this country brought here as babies by their parents. Now part of this new documentary that's called "Papers," this is what we have prepared for you today in this segment that we all "Conexion."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "PAPERS THE MOVIE")

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got a letter in the mail just delivered for my mom, brother and me, just the three of us. It gave us a date that we had to be there, and it also said, you know, we weren't going to be detained or anything.

The first thing that came to my mind was, am I going to be able to graduate from high school? Because that's always been my goal. And my parents said not to say anything to anybody, that they were going to try to figure out what to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Anne Galisky directed this documentary. It's called "Papers." And Walter Lara is part of the documentary. In fact, he's in it.

You weren't born in this country, right?

LARA: Right.

SANCHEZ: You were born where?

LARA: I was born in Argentina. And I was brought here by my family.

SANCHEZ: How old were you?

LARA: I was 3.

SANCHEZ: I can understand, can't you, where some people are saying, you know what, we can't just have open borders and have everybody coming across who wants to. But your parents, are they criminals?

LARA: My family, they are not criminals.

SANCHEZ: Good citizens?

LARA: Yes.

SANCHEZ: You went to school here?

LARA: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Pay their taxes?

LARA: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Not strung out on drugs or alcohol?

LARA: Never.

SANCHEZ: They had a son. You're their son. You have been here your whole life?

LARA: Yes.

SANCHEZ: And any moment, somebody can knock on your door and put handcuffs on you and drag you away from the United States?

LARA: Yes. That was pretty much the case for me. I was about to get deported. And I look back and I don't really know what I did wrong. I was good in school, like, you know, they teach you in school, like, got a 4.7 GPA, did 1,000 hours community...

SANCHEZ: Four-point-seven?

LARA: Yes. When you weigh in all the AP classes, all the honors classes in high school.

SANCHEZ: Right.

LARA: And I just wanted to go to college.

SANCHEZ: Look at the term that was written into the script as I prepared for you. You are an illegal immigrant, illegal.

That's almost a painful word to hear, isn't it?

LARA: Yes, because it sort of seems like I did something wrong, like maybe I'm not documented, but I don't know if I would consider it illegal.

SANCHEZ: It's kind of a painful, hurtful piece of language to use, isn't it?

ANNE GALISKY, DIRECTOR: Absolutely.

What we have found in the number of young people who we interviewed for the film, some who made it into the film and some whose stories we gathered, is that it causes depression. I mean, that was true across the board. How they deal with that, being excluded from society and that depression, varied, but they were, all of them...

SANCHEZ: And, again, let's make the point that people that we're talking about are not people who crossed the border or made a decision to cross the border. This is the child of someone who came to the United States many years ago.

You could argue that his parents are worthy of being allowed to stay. So, if his parents are worthy of being allowed to stay, certainly you could argue that a child like this, a kid who came when he was 3 years old, should be allowed to stay.

What would you like to see happen, Walter, as far as immigration in the United States? LARA: Well, I would like to see at least just a pathway people can take in order to become legalized. I mean, all these people have already earned their right to stay here, but they're just not recognized for it.

So, I would like to see...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Well, under the immigration -- under of the comprehensive immigration reform act, they were going to have to pay a $5,000 fine, prove that they're here, sign the papers that show where they have been and where they have lived, prove that they have never committed a crime, go back to their country, return here, get in a line, and then they would have been essentially -- eventually given residency status and then citizenship status.

That was a pretty high hurdle to climb.

GALISKY: Absolutely.

SANCHEZ: And, yet, most people said, nope, sorry, that's still not enough.

LARA: And I would think that, like, anyone that wants to stay in this country would do that. I know, I would. I would have tried. If I had just a pathway that I could have taken...

SANCHEZ: No matter what it was?

LARA: No matter what it was, I would have gone for it, you know?

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: No matter where they set the bar, you would have hurtled over it.

LARA: Exactly.

GALISKY: There is actually a bill that has been introduced that would specifically address the situation for students like Walter, which is called the DREAM Act.

And it's been reintroduced again this year in the House and the Senate. And it has bipartisan support. Even people who can't have sympathy for his parents' generation, at least they can look at, OK, what about the kids?

SANCHEZ: What about the kids?

It will be interesting to see what happens with the DREAM Act. We will continue to follow it.

Thanks so much for being here.

GALISKY: Thank you so much. Appreciate it. (CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Same to you, Walter.

LARA: Thank you, Rick, for having us.

SANCHEZ: Good story.

The name of the movie once again is called "Papers," coming to a place near you.

This young woman's on vacation in Europe doing what Americans do, vacationing in Europe, touring the Guinness brewery, holding a glass of wine in Italy. Well, she says those pics have cost her, her job. Is she a nun? Does she work for the competition? No. You're not going to believe what happened to her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Remember the heady first days of the war in Iraq? This is the war the United States was supposed to win in a walk, the war its backers figured would bury the memory of Vietnam forever, remember?

How did that go? Nearly seven years later, the memory of Vietnam is alive and well, as is, ironically, the example of the war in Iraq. And the reason I bring it up is that, if I'm reading this correctly, this thought process that I just shared with you, it is weighing on the mind of our president, President Barack Hussein Obama.

His commanding general in Afghanistan wants 40,000 more troops. A lot of folks assumed that the president would rubber-stamp that. It seems now, though, that this young president absorbed a certain lesson from Vietnam, to wit, giving the generals what they want doesn't always win wars.

I want you to listen now to what America's best-known general told my colleague Roland Martin. In an interview Tuesday, General Colin Powell told Roland that he's been advising the president privately, and he told him that this Afghanistan decision should be his and his alone.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: What I have advised him is to not be rushed into a decision, because this one is the decision that will have consequences for years to come.

This is a very difficult one for him. And it isn't just a one-time decision. This is the decision that will have consequences for the better part of his administration.

So, Mr. President don't get pushed by the left to do nothing. Don't get pushed by the right to do everything. You take your time and you figure it out. You're the commander in chief in chief and this was what you were elected for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: So, what's to be drawn from this?

How you noticed, as I have, how many weeks have passed now since General Stanley McChrystal made his troops requests, and the president still has not approved it? And, today, we're getting reports that President Obama's main focus isn't the number of troops to send, but how to eventually get them out.

Now, what do we make of this? Three major U.S. newspapers have an identical story today -- this is important, folks -- that Karl Eikenberry, the United States ambassador to Afghanistan, recently wrote to President Obama expressing reservations -- key word, reservations -- about sending more troops.

Karl Eikenberry, United States ambassador to Afghanistan, former commanding general in Afghanistan, is cautioning President Obama against sending more troops to Afghanistan, the opposite of what General Stanley McChrystal had suggested, right? That's interesting just on its face, right?

More interesting still is that the three newspapers got the identical leak of the supposedly secret contents of this diplomatic cable and printed basically the very same story on the very same day.

Folks, I have been in this business long enough to spot a trial balloon when I see one. And, baby, that's a trial balloon. Where do you think this is heading?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PREJEAN: Larry, you are being inappropriate. You really are?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: He is? Carrie Prejean's meltdown on CNN's "LARRY KING" last night, you're all talking about it. And we're going to play it for you, and then talk to somebody who has been following up on it.

And then there's another guest I want you to listen to in just a little bit. He says Wall Street CEOs are the folks who were never quite able to understand what was going on until it was too late. He knows this, in fact, because he documented it as it was happening. Yes, he's probably the best in the biz when it comes to this. And he's going to join us right here, "The New York Times" business writer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: OK. Welcome back.

I'm going to read your tweets in just a little bit. Man, I was just during a commercial reading a couple of them and folks are really hot about a lot of stories today, especially that perspective we just shared on what's going on in Afghanistan and in the mind of the president of the United States, given the decision that he's got to make.

I want to tell you about something else, though -- a big blowout last night on "LARRY KING LIVE." But it was kind of weird, wasn't it? In fact, just about everything involving Carrie Prejean is kind of that way, no?

Carrie Prejean, beauty queen; Carrie Prejean, pro-marriage spokesperson; Carrie Prejean, evangelical Christian. But then there's the other Carrie Prejean, the one who took semi-naked pics when she was just a teenager? Who had her breasts enhanced to win a beauty pageant? And now, Carrie Prejean, who introduced and starred in a sex tape for her boyfriend?

Then there's the Carrie Prejean who showed up last night to be interviewed by my colleague, Larry King. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": So the agreement discusses the motive behind why each party agreed?

CARRIE PREJEAN, FORMER MISS CALIFORNIA: Larry, you're being inappropriate. You really are. So, I'm not going to talk about...

KING: What? I'm asking a question.

PREJEAN: I'm not going to talk about anything that was discussed in mediation. It's completely confidential and it was a confidential settlement.

KING: All I'm asking -- so, all right. So, what you're saying is, in mediation, it was discussed why you were mediating?

PREJEAN: Larry, it's completely confidential and you're being inappropriate.

KING: OK.

PREJEAN: OK?

KING: All right. Inappropriate "KING LIVE" continues.

PREJEAN: Yes.

KING: Detroit, hello.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: Hi, I'm calling from Detroit.

KING: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: I'm a gay man and I love pageants. I'm sure that you, Carrie, have got great gay friends that helped you possibly win. What would you give them as advice if they wanted to get married?

KING: Did you hear the question, Carrie? (END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: There's actually more to that. She actually gets up and starts walking away and ignoring the questions, and saying that she doesn't want to be there anymore. Bizarre moment.

So, why not answer the questions? I mean, what is the real story here? "In Touch Weekly" senior editor Tm O'Neill is as good as gets on this kind of issue. That's why he's coming up next. He's going to take us through it.

Just to find look -- she hasn't been on the news, certainly not on this show in a long, long time. But now, I'm curious. What is the deal?

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Many of your impressions were very similar to the ones that I had last -- when I first saw that video and that moment last night on "LARRY KING LIVE" with Carrie Prejean.

For the record, as I mentioned a little while ago, she got up and acted as if she was going to get up and walk away. But she did eventually end up, I guess, she took off her IFB, which is this thing that I wear. This is what I wear so I can hear what my producer and director is telling me, and then there's the microphone right there and you can hear when I take it off. You hear that rattling sound? Which is what we heard when we were watching a little while ago that clip from "LARRY KING."

I mean, it was a bizarre moment. And most people are taking it just as that -- a bizarre moment.

Mugzy (ph) is on the Twitter right now. He's getting to us. He says, look, this is -- oh, sorry -- Bajangirl says, "She acted like a spoiled dumb brat." "Larry was cool and showed his journalistic professionalism. Carrie, on the other hand, was just rambling without a thought." Next one says, "Prejean is a hypocrite who plays the babe in the woods routine and it doesn't fly with the general public. Can't have it both ways."

"Just saw a Carrie Prejean video from last night on Rick Sanchez's show, my God, that was an odd little meltdown."

Boy, there's a lot of this. They keep coming and coming on this, because, obviously, it's a story that a lot of people are talking about.

Yes. And then there's that whole 15 minutes of fame thing. She didn't go anywhere, by the way. She did stay through the commercial break and another segment of Larry's show. Was it the question about the sex tape? It didn't seem like Larry was asking that question. We'd ask Tom O'Neill, he's the senior editor of "In Touch Weekly" to join us now, to bring us up-to-date on what's going on.

Tom, are you there?

TOM O'NEILL, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Yes, loud and clear.

SANCHEZ: Look, we haven't put her on this show in a long time because it got to the point where it was just ridiculous. But she came on my network yesterday and really almost tried to embarrass my colleague -- a guy that I have a hell of a lot of respect for in Larry King. And it seemed like there was something bizarre happening there and I'm not quite sure what it is.

Can you explain what happened last night to me?

O'NEILL: No, I don't think any of us can, because the bizarre moment occurred right after Larry dropped the questions that seemed to irritate her, and he moved on to the caller, she smiled. But it seemed like the moment of conflict had been resolved. And that's when she blew up.

And we -- the mystery is, did she blow up because the person unseen, off-camera, who was talking to her, tell her, you know, that's enough, we're marching out of here, or was it the caller, the gay man calling in who was asking her a sympathetic question about gay marriage that may have ticked her off.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: But the guy, but the guy who called in, said, "Look, I'm gay," and I think he said, "I'm gay and I love beauty pageants." And it didn't sound like he was going to hammer her. It sounds like he was going to ask her a question in a respectful way. So, why would that make her angry?

O'NEILL: Well, it was -- it was stated in a respectful way, but it was a terrible question for her because he said, "Look, you must have a lot of gay friends who helped get you where you are. What advice would you have for them if they wanted to get married?" Something she opposes. So, really, it was a trick question.

But I think, my guess looking at that tape and that incident that last night is that she was taking the -- you know, the advice from the person unseen. You and I've both been in Larry's studio in L.A. There's someone standing there she's talking to. It's one of her handlers, who probably said, "Hey, we're out of here."

SANCHEZ: But she didn't -- you know, I got to tell you, this is not the first time she's come off this way. When she answered the question at the beauty pageant, you and I, I think, said at that time, well, look, everybody can have a bad moment. But there again, she's asked the question that requires some thought and some intelligent discourse, and she has to buck.

After awhile, after you do this enough, I mean, it doesn't matter who you are or how beautiful you are or anything else, you start to come off looking kind of silly, I think.

O'NEILL: Yes. This was a really diva fit that we saw, you know, in action. And now, today, things just got worse because she was supposed to address a Republican group on the Hill today. And according to TMZ, just a few minutes before she was supposed to show up, she didn't appear. And why? Because, possibly, the plot thickens today when this sex tape that seems to get her so upset, any mention of it.

Now, the guy she sent the sex tape to is claiming that she was 20 years old on this, not the teenager she claims when -- as she told Meredith Vieira yesterday, where she also had kind of similar hissy fit but a little more controlled. And so -- and that she asked him to lie and cover up the fact that she was 20. She told him to claim she was only 17, which would mean nobody could ever release this.

SANCHEZ: Well, you know, what's interesting here -- and maybe this is a broader question because it has to do with not just Carrie Prejean. Look, she's a kid. She's got a lot of growing to do and I'm sure she's going to be a fine person, even if she's going through a tough time right now. I mean, you know, God bless her, as they say.

But it's hard to live a conflicted life, isn't it? If you're going to go out and you're going to say, "I'm A," but then we find out that in your private life you've really been B, it's kind of hard. I mean, maybe the lesson here for all is that you need to have some kind of level of consistency.

O'NEILL: Yes, especially when you're holding yourself up as this Bible thumping, you know, religious, the defense she's saying for traditional marriage, she's wrapping herself in God.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

O'NEILL: And she's becoming too righteous, I think, that makes her too vulnerable. If she hadn't been so righteous, she would be less vulnerable to this kind of attack.

But to the point you just made, there are two people today who both come forward and say she is the exact opposite in person that she claims in this book, and that she puts on in person. One is the head of the Miss California contest, issued a scathing, scathing comment about her today. And the other is this ex-boyfriend who sent the videotape. If you actually listen to the recording at TMZ, he says the words: she is exactly the opposite of what she seems.

SANCHEZ: Well, it's interesting. When they had that famous news conference -- news conference that everybody covered, it t seemed to me like Donald Trump was bending over backward to try and help her, and create a situation where she could stay, right? Or did I read that wrong?

O'NEILL: No, he would certainly -- he had every good reason at that point to say bye-bye, but he stood by her.

SANCHEZ: And still, there were more problems and more problems and eventually said -- they just said, look, it's just too much. There are too many issues with you, right?

O'NEILL: Yes. And how does she get out of this latest twist if it's true that she told the boyfriend to lie about the tape and claim that she was 17? I mean, the tape -- these sex tapes are almost even forgivable.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

O'NEILL: You know, they're so common. J-Lo has an embarrassing situation that came up this week, but they're almost ho-hum now. But, to add this allegation of lying of her saying, "Hey, you know, let's just claim I'm 17, and this no one could ever release it." I think she's maybe worried about the Miss USA people releasing it if this war continues to escalate. Wow, that adds a serious twist to this, don't you think?

SANCHEZ: This is one of the most interesting conversations I've had. And why do I feel like I need to take a shower now?

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: I got to tell you -- thanks for being on, though, I was curious, because, you know, it's not every day that I see my colleague -- not because I work with him and I have known him for a long time, and we're both fellow Miami guys -- but to see somebody kind of beat him up needlessly like that, I was thinking, "You know, that's just not fair."

So, I wanted to see if I can get some questions asked. And I'm glad, Tom O'Neill that we asked you to come on and talk to us, senior editor of "In Touch Weekly." Thanks, buddy.

O'NEILL: Thanks a lot, Rick.

(VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Have you ever seen a riot as it happens? This is vigilante justice, folks, and you're going to see it play out.

Also, Jon Stewart calls out another FOX boo-boo. What happened this time? I will tell you.

And then, don't forget, "The New York Times" bad boy is going to be joining me live here in just a little while to take us through what really caused the economic meltdown that just about destroyed this country last year. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: I want you to put yourself in Ashley Payne's shoes. She's 24 years old -- which means she's certainly old enough to go to Europe. She's allowed to have a glass of wine, right? And if she goes to a Guinness brewery, you'd think that she'd be allowed to take a picture holding a beer glass.

She documented her vacation on her Facebook page. And guess what? She says she was as a result forced to resign. Ashley Payne was going to join me now, with her attorney, Richard Storrs. But so far, they haven't arrived in our studio. I do want you to understand her story though as its told by Jovita Moore of our Atlanta affiliate, WSB.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE, WSB)

JOVITA MOORE, WSB CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Like so many people, Ashley Payne has a Facebook page updated often with pictures -- many are from her summer vacation.

ASHLEY PAYNE, FMR. TEACHER, BARROW COUNTY, GEORGIA: I visited the Guinness brewery. I went to Italy and had wine. I went to the Temple Bar district in Dublin and drank some alcohol there like any normal adult would.

MOORE: Payne and her friends took pictures at various spots across Europe. A few pictures show her with a glass of beer or wine.

PAYNE: They're not even me drinking the drinks and I don't look like my intoxicated in any way or doing any provocative or inappropriate.

MOORE: Payne was called into the principal's office at Apalachee High in Barrow County where she was an English teacher. She was told that because of her pictures and the b-word on one of her posts, she should resign immediately.

PAYNE: The principal said he had talked to the superintendent. So, he had represented that the decision had already been made, and that the only way to avoid having a suspension on my record would be to resign.

MOORE: Her lawyer says she was unfairly given an ultimatum.

RICHARD STORRS, PAYNE'S ATTORNEY: You can't suspend a teacher without having a hearing or without the whole board acting. And they did not do that.

MOORE: Payne's Facebook page is private. She doesn't allow students or strangers as friends. Several fellow teachers are included in her pictures. One was even on the European vacation. But Payne is the only one out of the job.

PAYNE: I do not think that any of this could jeopardize my job because I was just doing what adults do in having drinks on vacation and being responsible about it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: We did reach out for a statement, from Ron Sanders, superintendent of the Barrow County schools. And he said this, "We make it a practice," he says, "not to discuss personnel matters in public. We do this to protect not only the system, but also employees and non-employees."

Sometimes the best way of getting justice is to just do it yourself, and this video is going to be shown in just a little bit. It shows exactly what we're talking about in this case. Take a look at that. I'll tell you what it's all about next in "Fotos."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Calling out FOX News. No. It's not me doing it this time. Not me doing the calling out. It's a guy who's called me out from time to time.

Headlining "Fotos" today is Juan Stewart.

(MUSIC)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART" FROM COMEDY CENTRAL)

JON STEWART, HOST, "DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": FOX News was there to cover it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People didn't just come to hear speakers. They then pivoted, fanned out, went into the capital, went into the office buildings, were very polite, went from door to door to door, knocked on the doors. We handed out actually pages, actual pages from the bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: I'm sorry. Can we go back? I apologize. I didn't mean to interrupt. That was weird. Because when that clip started it was a clear fall day in Washington, D.C., not a cloud in the sky. The leaves have changed. It's well attended, but sparse.

All of a sudden the trees turn green again!

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: And it's cloudy! And it looks like thousands and thousands of more people arrive. If I didn't know any better I would think they just put two different days together and acted like they didn't. Where have I seen that last footage before?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN BECK, FOX NEWS HOST: This is just a fraction. There are people meeting all across the country. This is just in Washington, D.C.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: Wow. That actually from Glenn Beck's 9/12 rally two months ago, his much bigger 9/12 rally. It seems Sean Hannity used footage of a bigger crowd from a totally different event to make last week's GOP health care rally appear more heavily attended.

(END VIDEOTAPE) SANCHEZ: Nobody does it like Juan, does he? Now to his credit, here is Sean Hannity, manning up. You go, Sean.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FROM FOX NEWS VIA YOUTUBE/WEDNESDAY)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Although it pains me to say this, Jon Stewart, Comedy Central, he was right. Now, on his program last night, he mentioned that we had played some incorrect video on this program last week while talking about the Republican health care rally on Capitol Hill. He was correct. We screwed up. We aired some video of a rally in September, along with the video from the actual event. It was an inadvertent mistake, but a mistake, nonetheless.

So, Mr. Stewart, you were right. We apologize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Mexico, where suspected kidnappers are better off actually being behind bars. Huh? Better off behind bars. This scene at a government center on the outskirts of Mexico City, four guys are charged with kidnapping and Mexicans are fed up with kidnapping. So, they take the law into their own hands.

Suddenly, Molotov cocktails are flying to the streets, people on fire, riot police rush to rescue the kidnappers, the crowd tries to stop them by lunging rocks at them, riot police fire tear gas at the mob. Look at this pics. Now, let's see if the kidnappings actually go down. My bet is -- they do.

(MUSIC)

SANCHEZ: Wall Street's unbridled greed as exposed by Andrew Sorkin, author of "Too Big to Fail." There he is with those handsome eyes.

Just picked up his book, sat down on my seat on an airplane at LaGuardia. I looked next, and the guy next to me is reading the exact same book. That's when you know your book is hot.

Andrew joins me when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: True story I told just a little while ago. First time that's ever happened to me where I actually go into a bookstore at LaGuardia, I buy a book, I go and sit down on the plane, open it up, look next to me and the guy next to me is reading the exact same book that I have just purchased. Like I said, that's when you know a book is hot, and this book is hot. It's called "Too Big to Fail." It's written by Andrew Sorkin of "The New York Times."

And what makes this an interesting book, and what I really enjoyed about this book was: you feel like you're there when you're reading it. Remember last year when the country seemed to be coming apart economically? I mean, this guy details all the conversations that all these CEOs were having.

And I got to tell you, Andrew, from reading your book, I was surprised at their humaneness and also in many cases their cluelessness.

ANDREW SORKIN, NEW YORK TIMES: Right.

SANCHEZ: Like they didn't think this was going to happen and they didn't know how the hell to get out of it.

SORKIN: You know, I think -- and by the way, for me as well as a reporter, you know, my goal was -- and by the way, I'm glad you liked the book -- but my goal was to bring the reader inside the room to help sort of reconstruct the record for the first time so that we could see what these people were saying and doing and actually come to our own conclusions about, you know, where they made the mistakes, and there are many. A book with very few heroes and a number of villains, and you know, perhaps even some situations where they may have made the right decisions.

And I thought, if we could actually get behind the scenes and you could see them at their own almost humane level, you know, they seem real, you know, you'll see Dick Fuld, the CEO of Lehman Brothers with his wife crying. You'll see Hank Paulson, the treasury secretary, literally vomiting from sort of the emotional turmoil he's having in his office.

(CROSSTALK)

SORKIN: Like to really bring that to life, you know, you might be able to really understand what happened a little better.

SANCHEZ: And you did. But the emotional turmoil -- in the very beginning, they all look like this is something that's controllable.

SORKIN: Right.

SANCHEZ: And then you see the emotions kind of increase all throughout. But right toward the bloody end, they're still thinking they can just go across the street and get a loan and get themselves out of this.

SORKIN: And that's, you know, that's the thing. You know, the book is called "Too Big to Fail" and people talk about that phrase in the context of institutions. But I actually think about it in the context of these people who think that they are too big to fail. And there's an element of hubris and greed and power that I think sort of runs throughout the narrative.

And also, this human level, almost ad hoc nature, where you actually see that there is no plan. There is no true game plan, and everybody sort of flying by the seat of their pants.

SANCHEZ: Was it the -- was it the schemes, like the default swaps? Or was it the fact the regulations had been gotten rid of? Or, in the end, was it the fact that the regulators were asleep? Of those three things that come to my mind...

SORKIN: You know, I think it's a -- I think it's -- it's unsatisfying to blame a lot of people. But actually I think, you know, the regulators were asleep at the switch. That's for sure.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

SORKIN: You know, deregulation did not help the cause in that we now have, you know, firms that are too big -- too big to fail squared. And then we had bankers that took advantage of whatever rules were left. And so, I think you put all those things together.

I actually don't think it's necessarily about fancy financial products or financial engineering. It's about debt. We loaded this country up with debt. People took on too much debt. Companies took on too much debt. Banks lent money they didn't have. And fundamentally, that was our basic problem.

SANCHEZ: Andrew Sorkin is with us. He's going to stay with us as we go to CNN.com/live where you can join us as well and send us your questions for him.

Here now: Wolf Blitzer.