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Sarah Palin in the Spotlight; Militias in America

Aired November 17, 2009 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Well, now time for us to hand it over to the 3:00 p.m. NEWSROOM with Rick Sanchez.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALES AND FEMALES (singing): We shall overcome.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): It is spark civil rights marches and rallies and the other side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a racist and bigoted town.

SANCHEZ: This young woman facing up to 15 years for an incident at a Wal-Mart, and we're all over it.

A book about children in Cuba banned in a community that calls it propaganda.

John McCain's team calling Sarah Palin's book fiction. Guess what? It isn't new. When Palin questioned our coverage of her -- there it is in the book -- Steve Schmidt questioned her truthfulness. The authors of "Sarah from Alaska" join me live.

This is your national conversation, for Tuesday, November 17, 2009.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Hello again, everyone. I'm Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news. This is a conversation, it's not a speech, and it's your turn to get involved.

And today's top story will likely make you want to get involved. I want to draw your attention right now to Kennett, Missouri. You know it's never good when you see groups divided like this, mostly African-Americans on one side, angry, and mostly white citizens on the other side also angry.

And you know it's never good when you see the Confederate flag as you see there on display. If you think this conflict is about race, you would be right. A young woman is on trial for assaulting a police officer. And she could get as many as 15 years for it.

This is Heather Ellis. She got in a checkout line shouting match at a Wal-Mart store. Sounds simple enough. It's not. The police came. They say she was belligerent and started punching and kicking. She says police called her names, including racial slurs. She says they choked her and told her to go back to the ghetto.

Police say she threatened them. And an officer ended up with a split lip. That was almost three years ago. Fast-forward to today, and she's about to go on trial for assault.

CNN's Gary Tuchman is on the phone with me now. He's been following up on this story.

Gary, thanks so much for joining us. You there?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I sure am, Rick.

SANCHEZ: This sounds like the kind of skirmish that we all see from time to time when we got to our neighborhood grocery store. How did it get to this point? What's going on here?

TUCHMAN: Rick, no matter who's telling the truth, it's a very depressing story. And, by the way, that wasn't just a Confederate flag on display yesterday. There was a flag with a swastika on it, too.

Now, Heather Ellis. She lives in Louisiana now, but used to live here in Kennett, population 1,110. And she faces up to 15 years in prison like you said for an incident that began, depending on your perspective, either after she switched checkout lines at the Wal-Mart here or when she cut into the checkout line.

Prosecutors say she became belligerent when confronted by people, ultimately refused requests to calm down. And they say she kicked a policeman's shin, split another's lip while resisting arrest. And she was charged with assaulting the cops. But Heather Ellis says she was joining her cousin, who was already in the checkout line, was then pushed by a white customer, called racial slurs by employees and police, and then she was physically mistreated by the cops.

In short, Rick, Heather Ellis believes she was a victim of ugly racism. The police and prosecutors say she was arrested for good reason.

SANCHEZ: Well, I tell you what. People are incensed in this town. Certainly, it's driven them to the point where they're so upset, they can't hold back their emotions. I want you to listen now to some of the folks who have been doing interviews around town with some of the local reporters.

Hit that if you would, Claude (ph).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a racist and bigoted town. Racism and bigotry is thick in this city. There are skinheads, there are Ku Klux Klan in this city.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is what the American people need to know, that in the year 2009, racism is still alive. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's really a modern-day Rosa Parks case, in the sense that you have a person who is about as innocent as you can get who has been accused of something that is going to be detrimental to the development of her entire future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: I'm just wondering, there must have been a lot of people in both of those lines. What are they saying, what are the witnesses saying that really happened here?

TUCHMAN: Well, a lot of the people who live here -- and this town is about 10 percent African-American. But a lot of the white residents resent -- and we have seen this other places we have gone before that we have gone before where they have been these kinds of situation, but resent a lot of outsiders coming in here and participating in the demonstration.

Now, there's no correlation between outsiders coming in and whether or not this woman is innocent or guilty. What's really important to note, Rick, in this case, though -- and the jury selection starts tomorrow -- is, as far as we know, there are no independent witnesses in the Wal-Mart who say they saw this woman pushed by the cops.

There are two witnesses who do say they saw her pushed. And that is two of her family members. So, that's very significant. Unless there's a big surprise, they are relying, the defense, on her testimony to see how credible she is.

A very important part of the evidence, though, surveillance tapes. All your Wal-Mart have surveillance tapes.

SANCHEZ: Yes, what about those?

TUCHMAN: There's tapes from the inside, tapes from the outside. We haven't seen the tapes. We want to, but prosecutors, not surprisingly, won't give it to us. And the defense attorneys, perhaps more surprisingly, won't give it to us.

They did give it to the ACLU. And the ACLU says it was -- quote -- "inconclusive." So, I'm not sure exactly what that means. But I expect that as early as tomorrow we will see in open court the surveillance tapes.

SANCHEZ: It almost seems like it's bigger than this one incident, like there's something else going on in this town. And it may be highlighted by something I want to ask you about now.

We have got this picture of this card. It apparently is a KKK card. Claude, see if you can put that up for the benefit of the viewers. Our viewers are looking at this, Gary, now. I don't know if you can see it.

TUCHMAN: Yes, I see it and I have seen it before, too. SANCHEZ: It says -- I'm going to read it, in case folks can't see it at home -- it says, "You have been paid a social visit by the knights of the Ku Klux Klan. The next visit will not be social."

Now, let me tell you where this is important. Ellis' family, the girl on trial, her family says that she -- they received these cards in the vicinity of their home. There's even one allegation that it was handed to them by a police officer. Have you been able to make heads or tails out of this thing?

TUCHMAN: What we know factually, Rick, is that some of these cards were found along the route of a demonstration this past June.

These cards are nasty. They're chilling. And 99 percent of us in our right minds are very offended by such cards. However, authorities here in Kennett, which is a town that has had racial problems, but not more than some towns and less than other towns, there certainly have been in the past. There's no question about that.

But they say they have no indication that there are active Ku Klux Klan members in this area. Nevertheless, this card took some preparation to make. It is not just someone who wrote something. It is a printed card, so it's very disturbing to most people of good heart.

SANCHEZ: I would say. I'll tell you what. This does not look like a story that's going to be going away any time soon. It sounds like both camps on this story are certainly digging in their heels. And we're so glad, Gary Tuchman, that you have been on this story.

I understand that you're going to be filing some more tonight. You're going to be featuring this story tonight on "AC360," right, with Anderson Cooper?

TUCHMAN: Yes. I think, Rick, there's a very good possibility. We may wait until tomorrow to file to the opening statements of the trial, because that will be kind of the first new solid, definitive information since this case broke three years ago.

So, I think there's a good chance we will wait until tomorrow night, where we can report some real new information on this story.

SANCHEZ: Well, I'll tell you what. Just judging from my Twitter board and MySpace and Facebook and the e-mails that I have been getting so far, there are a lot of people all over this country that are watching this story. So I'm sure they're all going to be looking forward to getting your report.

Gary Tuchman, as usual, doing yeoman's work out there for us -- thanks, Gary.

TUCHMAN: Thank you, Rick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have all shot, from the youngest to the oldest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the youngest is how old?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Six.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Six-year-old?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mm-hmm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boo-yah! I love that sound.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: I want you to meet the Miracle family who loves that sound, a household with eight kids, more than 20 guns, and no fondness for the U.S. government. It's a special report on militias in America.

Also, Sarah Palin is being called dishonest by McCain staffers. And we're finding out it's not the first time. We're looking back at a moment during the campaign involving this show when similar accusations were leveled at the former governor by the McCain staff.

Also, don't forget the other way to participate in this newscast. Just call hey, Rick. The number is 877-742-5751. We will get you any way we can, folks. And we're going to be right back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Rick, this is (INAUDIBLE) I'm calling from Twinsburg, Ohio.

I think that's absurd, it's stupid, it's ridiculous to even suggest that she can get 15 years in prison for something so trivial. Thank you.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: As you might imagine, since we first brought you that story, we are getting a ton of commentary from you. We have been opening up our Twitter board, our Facebook and MySpace lines throughout the day.

And, as you can see, we're getting phone calls on it as well.

Let's go right to our Twitter board and start there, if we can. Over to the left, Robert, if you can move it in, you see MsPadiella saying: "Why can't reporters see the tapes? The Knights of the KKK? Wow. Really?"

Right under that: "I understand the race issue, but, if the tables were turned, would it be on the news?"

The next one says: "Ellis deserves jail time. She hit a police officer. There is no racism, just plain rudeness on her part."

"I'm curious, as only 10 percent of the population there is black. Good luck getting a fair jury, Ms. Ellis."

A lot of folks are commenting on this story. Obviously, we're going to be staying on top of it, and we will continue to bring you your comments as well and any developments that come from the story. As you saw, our reporter Gary Tuchman is there.

Meanwhile, other news that we're going to be following for you today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a shock to everyone. Michael was a wonderful friend of mine. He loved Chicago just as much as I did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Mystery in Chicago. This is a prominent politician. He's turned up dead. And now there are some serious questions that are being asked from the shores of Lake Michigan to the shores of the Potomac. That's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That book was removed because it doesn't square with the political orthodoxy of five members of the Miami-Dade School Board.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Why is a children's book banned in Miami? I'm going to tell you why. And I want to hear from you on this one as I explain to you why this has literally become a federal case.

I will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And you can. Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez here in the world headquarters of CNN in Atlanta.

An African-American Democratic president in the White House may be spurring an increase in militia groups around the United States.

Jim Acosta takes us inside a self-described militia movement in Michigan. They speak to him openly, something they don't often do, because most of the times, they neither trust the government nor the media, often thinking they're one and the same.

Here now, part two of our special report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEE MIRACLE, LEADER, SOUTHEAST MICHIGAN VOLUNTEER MILITIA: And we only fight over the important things, baby. Spinach pie.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's dinner time, and Lee and Katrina Miracle have their hands full.

KATRINA MIRACLE, WIFE OF LEE MIRACLE: Do you want a lot of meat or a little bit?

ACOSTA: For starters, they have eight kids, ages 6 to 18.

(on camera): With eight kids, you had combat experience.

L. MIRACLE: Oh. We've got more than combat experience with eight kids.

We're practicing target acquisition.

ACOSTA: Then there's Lee's weekend hobby, leading training exercises once a month for the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia.

L. MIRACLE: You know, the Lee and Kate Plus Eight plus the gun rack, I guess, I don't know.

Thank you, Emily (ph).

ACOSTA: Are you normal guys?

L. MIRACLE: Yes, absolutely. I mean, we don't have barb wire or barricades or gun placements around the house. I mean, we're normal people. I love that sound.

ACOSTA: For the Miracle family, normal includes keeping more than 20 guns in the house. Not all of them under lock and key.

(on camera): And this is one of how many in the house?

L. MIRACLE: Twenty-two I think.

ACOSTA (voice-over): And they bring their children, like 13- year-old Megan on militia outings.

And they use the weapons, they use the firearms?

L. MIRACLE: Yes. Yes.

K. MIRACLE: They have -- sure. They have all shot from the youngest to the oldest.

ACOSTA: And the youngest is how old?

K. MIRACLE: Six.

ACOSTA: Six-year-old.

L. MIRACLE: Yes.

ACOSTA: Even 6-year-old Morgana (ph). K. MIRACLE: I do want to point out, though, that she's not using it by herself. She's being highly supervised.

ACOSTA: Are you raising them to be in the militia?

L. MIRACLE: No, that's their choice.

Megan, of course, is already in as far as I'm concerned.

ACOSTA: The Miracle family is out to show there's more to the militia than what critics see, gun toting extremists venting their frustrations at the government. From Lee's YouTube page...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. MIRACLE: When you hear a story about the militia in the media, this is probably the image that you get. A crazy guy with camouflage on and a wacky helmet holding a rifle. I'm here to show you a different picture.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: To his job as a postal worker.

(on camera): Is there a little irony in that being in the militia and working for the federal government?

L. MIRACLE: Not at all.

ACOSTA (voice-over): But this self-described happy warrior admits he's angry at the government, suspicious of the Obama administration's stance on gun rights, and even opposed to health care reform, which he deems unconstitutional.

L. MIRACLE: But I'm really angry when 300 million other people are not as angry as I am. So I blame -- a lot of my anger is directed at America as a whole because they are letting this happen.

ACOSTA: Lee Miracle believes a well-armed population is the best defense against government excess.

L. MIRACLE: What's one big thing about today?

ACOSTA: Growing up in a militia may not be everybody's idea of the all-American family. But it is to them.

K. MIRACLE: So what do you want for dinner tomorrow?

MIRACLE: Can we do some taco salad or something?

ACOSTA: Jim Acosta, Sterling Heights, Michigan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Remember the $90,000 in cash that was found in a congressman's freezer? Well, guess what? He's been convicted. But guess what? You're going to continue to pay him. And we're following the Monday for you again.

Also, London bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down. Oh, not London? Oh, well. "Fotos" next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: It is a story that is getting as much attention as, well, frankly any we have done here in the last couple of days. It's a story about a woman at a Wal-Mart and the possibility that she could spend 15 years in jail for an assault on a police officer which some on her camp say was not an assault on a police officer. Some witnesses say, yes, it was.

And now both sides are going at it. We're going to continue to follow that story.

But, in the meantime, we have also been getting a lot of attention on that militia story we brought you just moments ago out of Michigan. Go to the Twitter board, if we possibly can, and you will see what people are saying there.

"If the militia were black and brown, laws would be against it."

Are you kidding? Militia nut works for the post office? Hypocrite."

Those are some of the comments that we have getting in so far. We will continue to follow them for you.

In the meantime, here's what else we have got coming your way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a shock to everyone. Michael was a wonderful friend of mine. He loved Chicago just as much as I did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The story out of the Midwest: the mystery of a prominent politician. His death is being ruled a suicide. But there are still many, many unanswered questions. In fact, even city officials are saying: I don't buy the explanation I have been given.

Also, by now, you have heard about Sarah Palin's book, but there is another book also getting attention that gets to the matter of who's really telling the truth. And this one involves, at least in some small measure, this newscast.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Now to a mysterious death in Chicago that is raising some very big questions. Michael Scott was not only the president of the Chicago School Board. In a city that helped define the word clout, Scott's circle of friends and associates included Mayor Richard Daley, U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan, and the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

Well, guess what? Police pulled Scott's body out of the Chicago River yesterday. The medical examiner says it was a suicide, but some people aren't buying that, not even Chicago's top police officer.

Police Superintendent Jody Weis is suggesting he's not ready to call it a suicide. And newspapers are saying it simply doesn't add up. Look at this. This is John Kass of "The Chicago Tribune." He says, the body was found in a very isolated location, what Kass calls "a no man's land, a difficult-to-reach place, especially for a 60- year-old stumbling around in pitch darkness over uneven ground with no light and no moon."

Michael Sneed of "The Sun-Times" asks why Scott didn't leave a suicide note.

And another "Sun-Times" columnist, Mary Mitchell, says that when she saw Scott two weeks ago, she was -- quote -- "as upbeat as I have ever seen him." She says Scott -- quoting again -- "did not appear to be the kind of guy who thought life no longer had any purpose" -- stop quote.

So, what really happened? Did Scott really kill himself? And, if so, why?

Azam Ahmed is a "Chicago Tribune" reporter. He's been following this story.

Azam, thanks so much for being with us.

AZAM AHMED, "THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE": Thanks for having me.

SANCHEZ: Let's start with the medical examiner's report. Are they cold, hard facts that prove that this was a suicide? And, if so, why are all these people arguing against it?

Well, as we understand it, the medical examiners are forensic pathologists. And, so when they rule, that is usually the ruling that sticks.

SANCHEZ: Well, was it...

(CROSSTALK)

AHMED: However, that doesn't...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: I mean, I guess what I'm asking is, are they saying, it's obviously that, and we came to the conclusion right away, and didn't want to delay because it was a clear gunshot to the head, and the gun was sitting right next to him, et cetera, et cetera?

AHMED: I'm not exactly clear how they came to their decision, but they typically make a ruling. And in this situation, they said it was a suicide.

I think police just wanted to conduct their investigation without having that bear any sort of influence over what they're doing.

SANCHEZ: Isn't that kind of rare, though? I used to be a cop beat reporter. Usually, once -- those guys usually talk to each other during the investigation. And one side won't put out a statement that conflicts with the other one, unless there are bizarre circumstances here.

Am I wrong?

AHMED: I'm not entirely sure they're necessarily conflicting. I think the medical examiner ruled it a suicide. And the police are just getting all the groundwork done, trying to figure out the what, as well as the why.

SANCHEZ: But -- but the police superintendent, it seems like I haven't heard the superintendent say, "Look, it's a suicide, and we're dealing with it as a suicide."

At least -- maybe I'm wrong. You're there, he hasn't used that word, why not?

AHMED: That's a very good question. I mean, we were also sort of caught off guard by the fact that he didn't say anything about it specifically being a suicide. So, our understanding was that they are just going to continue investigating and then at some point make their own determination. I am not sure of that, but it's mutually exclusive from the medical examiner but that they were going to research or investigate what happened.

SANCHEZ: All right. Let's leave that as it may.

Scott, by the way, he was called to testify in a grand jury investigation at a school admission and there were also questions about some of these real estate deals when he was on the Chicago Olympic bid committee. Like the possibility that you would have gotten the Olympics, he would have made out pretty well and as a result of you not getting the Olympics, he maybe took a loss or two.

Are any of those things coming into play in the explanation for his sudden death?

AHMED: I think it should be noted that it's right now nobody has -- at least we don't have any clear idea. And I think the public doesn't have a clear idea of why it happened.

There were number of things, he had had a pretty difficult year, his ex-wife died, there was a federal probe into what they call the selective in Roman High Schools, the most competitive high schools in the city and some of the best in the state and apparently, the federal authorities were investigating admissions practices to see if any untoward activities were taking place and then the real estate issues as well arose. And so, it had been a difficult year, but there are no indications yet whether those things were any kind of approximate cause.

SANCHEZ: Final question, tell me what your gut says about this. Given the fact that he's from Chicago, that he was a prominent businessman/politician, and that our current President of the United States is from Chicago, do you expect that this story will get more attention as a result? Fairly or unfairly?

AHMED: I'm not sure, I mean my gut would say Michael Scott was a pretty prominent politician, public servant in the city. So in the city, it's getting a tremendous amount of tension just because of who he was and how long he's been mayor.

SANCHEZ: You know what I'm getting here though. Yes, the national bright people are going to say, oh Lord, did this guy have ties to Obama. There's nothing we've rather seen that says that he really did, but that doesn't stop people from raising the questions.

AHMED: Right. I haven't seen anything that connects the Obama with Michael. But my suspicion would be like many things with Chicago now, because it is where Obama came from, everything that makes news here, including the fatal beating of Darrion Albert is going to get more attention now just because it's the home of the president.

SANCHEZ: We get it.

Azam Ahmed, my thanks to you sir for coming on and sharing your perspective on this.

AHMED: Thanks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: That book was removed because it doesn't square with the political orthodoxy of five members of the Miami-Dade School Board.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: A children's schoolbook about Cuba causes controversy and students are caught right in the middle. You can decide for me if this is fair or not fair. Also this image giving cold cash another meaning. Remember the $90,000 found in Congressman Jefferson's freezer? Well, as it turns out he's getting paid and guess who's paying him? You.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back.

In our "Conexion" segment, we should ask this question, should a book be taken off the shelves, any book, who's allowed to make the decision whether a book should be taken off the shelves? This book is called "Let's go to Cuba" or "Vamos a Cuba."

See it right there. It's a children book that describes how children on the communist island live and how they are in many ways just like children in this country. See, anywhere else that book would be considered benign. It would barely get a notice. But in Miami, my hometown, it is seen as venom. Parents arguing that it does not represent the oppression that's actually felt by children in Cuba because of the Marxist system there. They say, it was not an honest book and they even convinced the school board to pull it off the shelves.

Essentially banning the book from the school system. Did you ever hear when someone has used the expression or the term, hey, don't make a federal case out of it. Well, guess what, this is a federal case. Why? Well, let me tell you. The ACLU challenged the board and took the man all the way to the U.S. Supreme court. Which just yesterday decided no, we're not going to take it out. It may not be worth considering. Should they have?

That's the question I have for you -- does a school system have a right to ban a book? Any book? Or is it a violation of free speech? Let me know. I want to hear your responses to this.

Also, I want to be going back to our top story in a moment, it's the story from Kenneth, Missouri. And as I mentioned with Gary Tuchman, the response we have got from this story is amazing. You know, it's never good when you see groups divided like this.

Look at these pictures, African-Americans on one side who are angry, mostly White citizen on the other side of the street who were also angry. And it's never good when you see flags like those. That's the Confederate flag, that's a swastika. On this play in America. Gary Tuchman told me there were even more swastikas at here it seem. Now if you think this conflict was about race, you would be right.

A young woman is on trial for assaulting a police officer and she could get as many as 15 years.

There she is.

Heather Ellis is her name. She got in the checkout lane shouting match to the Wal-Mart store. The police came, they say she was belligerent and started punching and kicking. She says the police called her name including racial slurs, she says that they choked her and told her to go back to the ghetto. Police say she threatened them and one officer ended up with a split lip.

By the way, that was three years ago and fast forward to today, and she's about to go on trial for assault. In fact, jury selection begins tomorrow. Fifteen years is what they have been saying thus far that she might possibly have to spend in prison.

Obviously, the number of tweets that we have been getting on this is amazing. Most of the folks have been telling us throughout the course of the day that they are either for one side or the other, split pretty much down the middle. We're going to continue to read those and follow those for you. Meanwhile this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE ELLIS, TAXPAYERS FOR COMMON SENSE: He still can get pension plans paid for by them paid for by them. Tens of thousands of dollars while he setting on his cell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: He's referring to Congressman William Jefferson and the cash that he had stashed in his freezer. He's going to continue to get paid at his own -- no pardon me, your expense.

You maybe want to hear this report as we follow the money again and insiders to the McCain camp. I'm sure you heard these on many newscasts are coming out and their saying that Sarah Palin has been less than honest but we're finding out she may have been less than honest not just with the release of her book, but even during the campaign, these accusations were being hurled. We'll you're going to hear it for yourself from two people who written about Sarah Palin who were there to cover her, were embedded during that campaign.

Stay with us, I'm coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We're continuing to get a lot of comments on some of these stories, that book banning story that we just told you about coming out on Miami on MySpace now.

We're getting an immediate response, it says, "Book banning in America? That is sad."

Let's just leave it at that, Robert, if we can. We're going to pick some of the others up that are coming in on twitter and just little bit. But I want to tell you about this story now.

A story about where your dollars go. You know, on this newscast, on this newscast, we're always all over your money. Former Congressman William Jefferson was sentenced last week to13 years in prison for taking bribes, no, that wasn't your tax money, but what you'll soon be paying him is your tax money. You may remember that they found $90,000 in cash in his freezer. He doesn't get to keep that money, of course, but he doesn't really need it either because despite his conviction, he's eligible for more than $40,000 in pension benefits every single year courtesy of you, the taxpayer, even though he was found guilty.

Explain this to me, please Joe Johns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You might think Former Democratic Congressman William Jefferson just sentenced to 13 years in prison for taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes would be just about the last guy on earth to get a pension paid for with your taxpayer dollars. After all, he's a towering symbol of political corruption, he will forever be known as the congressman who got caught red handed with $90,000 of FBI sting money in his freezer.

But perhaps even more outrageous than the frozen cash, Jefferson is still eligible to receive a full congressional pension for the rest of his life.

ELLIS: Taxpayers could see that he's (INAUDIBLE) or prison's right but he still can get pension plans paid for by them. Tens of thousands of dollars while he's sitting in his cell.

JOHNS: Wait a minute. Two years ago, Congress passed a law called the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act. It's supposed to prohibit convicted convicts from getting their pension, and yet guys like Jefferson who committed their crimes before congress pass the law can still get their money. Sounds unlawful, but the Constitution says you can't enforce a law retroactively.

ELLIS: It's only if you committed your crime after the day the bill was enacted. So, as long as lawmakers did their dirty deeds before September 14th, 2007, they got to get out of jail free card or at least to get a pension in jail free card.

JOHNS: But don't think we're singling out William Jefferson. A long list of Congress members have made their way from Capitol Hill to prison and still managed to keep their pensions intact.

California Republican Duke Cunningham, also convicted for bribery and imprisoned for eight years, gets a combined congressional military pension of $64,000 a year.

Former Democratic Congressman Jim Traficant of Ohio, convicted for bribery and tax evasion, did his time and now he's out, receiving a $40,000 a year pension.

And former House Ways and Means chairman, Dan Rostenkowski, also a Democrat, was released from prison years ago with a whopping $125,000 a year pension.

In all, you, the taxpayer, are on the hook for about half a million dollars a year in pension payments for former members of Congress who went to prison.

Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: And there's this, time has run out for the old bridge. We'll tell you what it is -- that's next in "Fotos."

And then the version of the Palin story you won't get from her new book but you will from another. In fact, we've got the authors coming up in just a little bit.

Also, remember the after show, CNN.com/live right here at 4:00. And hey, if you want to join us here and you happen to be in the Atlanta area, just call this number, 877-4CNN-TOUR or CNN.com/tour, and you can join us. Be right here in the studio with me while I'm doing this newscast, if you promise to behave yourself. I won't.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

When you're 86 years old and you're one of the founders of professional football in America, you got a right to be a little crude sometimes. No? Here's "Fotos."

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SANCHEZ: They're dancing in New York right now as they listen to the music. But that right there, that's Bud Adams. He's owner of the Tennessee Titans and a legend in the National Football League. So, when his team was playing Buffalo this weekend and he started getting guff from some of the fans, you'd think he'd be used to it, right? No, Bud decided that he would give it right back at them by showing them that his team is number one. He did so by raising both of his middle fingers, on both hands at the same time. It was a double "We're number one." The NFL, they didn't buy the explanation, not the "We're number one" explanation. They're fining him $250,000.

Utah now -- two hikers are lucky to be alive after spending 17 hours clinging to a cliff in a cold canyon. They had strayed so far off the beaten path that rescuers could only reach them by helicopter. They say bad decisions led to their predicament. Yes, I'll say. Now, the government is thinking about making them pay the bill for those bad decisions. And trust me -- while their thrill may have been cheap, a helicopter rescue they may have to pay for is not.

What do you do with a 79-year-old bridge that's condemned for being structurally deficient? How about we blow it up? And that is exactly what they did to this bridge outside of Pittsburgh. Demolitions are us. We love these on CNN. H.L. Mencken once called it "The Libido of the Ugly," the old Pittsburgh, that is, which as you can see is now making way for a newer, more beautiful Pittsburgh.

Authors from inside the McCain camp accusing Sarah Palin of being dishonest in her book. But we found out that some inside the McCain camp were saying that way back when. They are going to be here next, and they're going to be joining me in just a little bit to take you through what it was really like -- that tension, that friction, as it's being described by so many between the McCain camp and Sarah Palin.

Stay right there. They're coming your way.

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SANCHEZ: We welcome you back.

It is everywhere. She is everywhere. Again, Sarah Palin and her book, former governor, failed V.P. candidate, on again, off again, darling of the Republican Party. She's is on "Oprah." She's on "Barbara Walters." She's on that other cable network. She's not on the Rick Sanchez show, not that we haven't invited her, by the way.

The story all week is about the incredible tension, maybe even the repulsion at times between members of the McCain camp and Mrs. Palin, and the book that captures that best it seems is this one. It's called "Sarah from Alaska." We've been looking into it for a couple of days now, our staff on the Sanchez show.

Scott Conroy and Shushannah Walshe wrote the book after spending time embedded inside the McCain/Palin campaign.

My thanks to both of you. Congratulations on the book.

SHUSHANNAH WALSHE, CO-AUTHOR, "SARAH FROM ALASKA": Thanks.

SANCHEZ: How...

SCOTT CONROY, CO-AUTHOR, "SARAH FROM ALASKA": Thanks.

SANCHEZ: How tense was it? At the beginning of the book as I read, even to the very last day when she said good-bye to John McCain and he in turn said good-bye to her, after they had lost on that night and had to go on the stage, even on that day there was incredible friction, was there not?

SCOTT: Right. I think on election day, I think that's where we saw the most friction. Election day is the day where Sarah Palin was going to give a concession speech and John McCain and his senior aides decided, "No, you're not going to speak," and they've prevented her from doing so. And then the encounter you mentioned was after the night's festivities, she had a very awkward good-bye, let's say, with Senator McCain.

SANCHEZ: Shoshanna, wasn't there somebody who actually said something like, "Get her off the stage"?

WALSHE: Right. After John McCain actually left the hotel Sarah Palin wanted to take some pictures with her family on the stage. Now, she had been forbidden to give a concession speech, a speech written to her and that she wanted to deliver. The McCain senior advisers were so afraid that when she got up on the stage to give this speech that they -- excuse me -- to get up on the stage to take some photos, that she would give the speech, that they actually turned the lights out on her and you have this phone call between a Palin loyalist and a senior McCain adviser saying getting her off the stage.

SANCHEZ: There was an incident that you report in your book. When I finally got to page 166, interestingly enough, I started reading about myself. I was reading my own name here. It's an interview we had done.

We looked into this story about her husband having ties to the Alaska Independence Party, and the fact that she had actually spoken to the party. So, we had a guest on and we started asking questions about how important that was.

All right. There's a freeze-frame of the day we did the story, and you see it says there, "The Palins and the Fringe."

According to your book, Sarah Palin became extremely upset by that story we did that day. Tell me about her reaction, either one of you.

CONROY: That's right. She was very, very upset by this. And we actually obtained in our book, "Sarah from Alaska," some campaign e- mails that were exchanged between Palin and some senior aides. And I'll just take you through that quickly. Sarah Palin first fired off an e-mail to Steve Schmidt and other senior advisers in the McCain campaign saying, "This is bull. I want it cleared up."

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Well, wait, wait, wait -- wait just a moment. I think we got this from the book. We'll put -- here.

CONROY: OK.

SANCHEZ: I'll read it and you confirm it for me. It's your book.

She said, "Please get in front of that ridiculous issue that's cropped up all day, claiming Todd's involvement in an anti-American political party. It's bull."

She wrote that, I guess, to Steve Schmidt who was the head of the John McCain campaign, all right? Is that right? And take us through -- take us through that, if you would.

WALSHE: Yes.

CONROY: That's right. And then -- and then Schmidt wrote back to her and said, "You know, it's our understanding that Todd Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party, I think, from 1995 to 2002. Now if that's untrue, let us know and we'll clear this up."

So, she then -- Palin responded -- by the way, CC-ing more people on these e-mails, her personal aide and some others who should have had no part in this discussion, but it seemed as though she was trying to get some people on her side lined up against Schmidt. She replied, "You know, Todd, when he was a member of that party, it's only because he mistakenly filled out the election registration form which too many Alaskans do which says Alaskan independent." Well, actually, we saw the voter registration form and it does say Alaskan Independence Party. It's very clear.

And then, furthermore, Palin said, "Now, this party doesn't even stand for secession," and Schmidt knew that that wasn't true and he responded that, "Yes, it does." Now, this was all taking place on the day that John McCain had his last debate against Barack Obama.

So, Schmidt didn't want to respond to this. He knew that what Palin was telling him wasn't accurate. And so, he said, "We're not going to get John involved in this. We're not going to make him respond on a day that should be his." (CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: But think about that, but think about that. He's calling something she's saying inaccurate. She's -- in fact, we've got -- I don't know if we've had a chance for the viewers to see that.

Put that up again, if you would, Claude.

He says to her, "Ignore it. He was a member of the AIP. My understanding is yes." And then he sends her this e-mail that you have in your book, it's on page 168. He says, "The statement you're suggesting be released would be inaccurate. The inaccuracy would bring greater media attention to this matter and be a distraction."

I mean, he's -- I've never -- you know, look, we're no fans of the McCain camp. We're no fans of any politicians on this show. We call 'em as we see 'em. But here, we have the McCain camp basically coming to our defense as CNN news people.

WALSHE: Well, it's pretty extraordinary that you have the campaign's chief strategist, you know, questioning the truthfulness of their vice presidential candidate, but that's exactly what happened. And later in these e-mails which you've seen, Sarah Palin brings up that her press secretary had been getting questions from the press about this after your -- after your segment and Steve Schmidt responds to that saying that he has checked with the press secretary and there were no questions.

So, it's pretty extraordinary this back-and-forth that really reveals these tensions, and also where you see that the senior advisers are actually questioning the candidate's truthfulness.

SANCHEZ: You know, what's interesting is, I think, most Americans did not see at the time that there was that kind of tension between them. And, by the way, that's not to say that all the tensions were Sarah Palin's fault. In her defense...

CONROY: Right.

SANCHEZ: ... they did some things where a lot of folks would look at it and say, "You know, they didn't handle her correctly given what they knew and given what they could have gotten out of her." I mean, that's a fair point to be made as well, and we're going to make it as well as we continue now with Scott Conroy and Shushannah Walshe on CNN.com/live as we go to CNN.com.

Meanwhile, here's Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

Wolf, take it away.