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Diplomacy in the War Zone; Pirates Strike Maersk Alabama for Second Time; Mammogram Confusion and Concerns
Aired November 18, 2009 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Time for your top-of-the- hour reset.
I'm Tony Harris in the CNN NEWSROOM.
It is 9:30 p.m. in Afghanistan, where the U.S. secretary of state arrives for the inauguration of President Hamid Karzai.
It is 8:00 p.m. in the Indian Ocean, where the American flagship the Maersk Alabama fights off pirates.
And it is noon in Atlanta, where CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta questions a task force member about controversial new mammogram guidelines.
Let's get started.
Diplomacy in the war zone. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is in Afghanistan. Her unannounced visit comes on the eve of President Hamid Karzai's inauguration.
CNN foreign affairs correspondent Jill Dougherty joining me live now from the State Department.
And Jill, given all the concerns the U.S. has expressed about the reliability of Hamid Karzai, is Secretary of State Clinton carrying a very specific message for President Karzai?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Tony, she is, because she may be a diplomat, but there's a pretty tough message here that the U.S. is trying to get across. And that is the issue of corruption.
It is endemic, it's pervasive throughout the government of Afghanistan. And when Secretary Clinton arrived, she said that she's here -- that she is there at a critical moment, and that is the subject she will be talking about, you can be sure, according to U.S. officials talking to CNN.
Afghanistan, one senior U.S. official says, has begun to take some steps. They have this new commission that's looking into allegations of corruption, and also a tribunal that will be prosecuting allegations of corruption. But, you know, they've done this before. So, the proof will have to be in the pudding.
The other thing, though, Tony, that's interesting is the U.S. is now vetting, actually, ministries, looking at certifying them as open and transparent or not if they want to get direct U.S. funding. And they're going through them one by one and deciding whether or not they're actually going to get this direct funding.
HARRIS: Well, Jill, there's obviously more to the U.S. mission in Afghanistan than the military mission. What can you tell us about the civilian aid efforts?
DOUGHERTY: It's every bit as critical as the military side. In fact, some would argue in a way it's more critical, because it's going to be providing, they hope, the services that the people of Afghanistan really need. So, let's look at it.
It's being called the civilian surge, where the job that they're going to be carrying out, number one, improve Afghan governance; provide security, justice, jobs, and services; and very important, a meaningful alternative to the Taliban's recruiting. How many will there be? Well, roughly 1,000 -- 974 Americans they expect by the end of the year. That's up from 603 right now.
They are being recruited from inside the U.S. government and outside. They're experts from diplomats, lawyers, agronomists, development specialists, you name it.
And then, also, they're going to be following the military. They will be relying on them for security and for mobility -- Tony.
HARRIS: All right. CNN's foreign affairs correspondent, Jill Dougherty, from the State Department for us.
Jill, thank you.
And checking the wire now and the day's other big stories.
Attorney General Eric Holder standing by his decision to try 9/11 terror suspects in New York federal court. Holder is facing tough questions right now from member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He said politics did not influence his decision to try accused 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four others in New York.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: The decision you made to try these cases in federal court represents a policy or a political decision, wouldn't you agree?
ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: No.
SESSIONS: Well, it's a policy decision at least, is it not?
HOLDER: It was a policy decision. It was a decision that was case-driven. It's a decision based on the evidence that I know, that, frankly, some of the people who have criticized the decision do not have access to.
The decision I made was based on my judgment looking at all of the evidence, talking to the people who have gathered that evidence, and the determination made by me as to where we can best prosecute these cases and come up with the best chances for success. There was not a political component to my decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: North Korea's nuclear program and free trade topped President Obama's agenda on the last leg of his Asia trip. The president arrived in Seoul, South Korea, earlier today. He meets with that country's leader tomorrow.
In an interview with our senior White House correspondent, Ed Henry, the president discussed the way forward in Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: We are very close to a decision. I will announce that decision certainly in the next several weeks.
The pieces involved, number one, making sure that the American people understand we do have a vital interest in making sure that al Qaeda cannot attack us and that they can't use Afghanistan as a safe haven. We have a vital interest in making sure that Afghanistan is sufficiently stable, that it can't infect the entire region with violent extremism. We also have to make sure that we've got an effective partner in Afghanistan, and that's something that we are examining very closely and presenting some very clear benchmarks for the Afghan government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: And we will have more of Ed Henry's interview ahead this hour.
A potential setback in Iraq. The January election and planned U.S. troop drawdown are in question today because Iraq's Sunni Arab vice president is now rejecting part of a key election law that was recently passed. Tariq al-Hashimi is sending part of the law back to the parliament to be amended. He wants more seats allocated for Iraqis living abroad, most of whom are Sunnis.
Happening now on Capitol Hill, Senators Joe Lieberman and Susan Collins set to begin a news conference. It is under way, as you can see, to discuss the upcoming hearing on the massacre at Fort Hood, Texas.
Lieberman is chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee. Collins is the committee's ranking Republican. They plan to hold hearings tomorrow, two weeks after Army psychiatrist Major Nidal Hasan allegedly killed 13 people and wounded dozens more.
Victims of the Fort Hood shooting rampage could be eligible for the Purple Heart or the civilian equivalent. Congress has introduced a bill that would treat the victims the same as combat casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq. It would also guarantee the beneficiaries of service members killed in the attack receive maximum life insurance benefits. Pirates tried and failed to hijack an American containership off Africa's east coast today. Yes, the Maersk Alabama, the same ship that was attacked back in April.
I spoke with Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: As pirates approached the ship and got within a couple of hundred yards, there was a priority security team on board the Maersk Alabama. They did everything they could, all indications are, to warn pirates away. They pirates kept coming.
The private security crew then opened fire on them with small arms, and using some loud noise- making devices to drive the pirates away. We are told that at that point, the pirate attack was thwarted.
And, you know, this is a case where it did work, because ever since the Maersk Alabama, the first time in April and over the last several months, the military that patrol those waters have been talking to the commercial shipping industry to tell them to take some more proactive measures to try and defend their ships. This time it worked -- Tony.
HARRIS: So, Barbara, is this private security team on board, is this a change since the April hijacking?
STARR: You know, I think it is a bit of a change in terms of companies doing this more than in the past. Not unprecedented.
What we do know is, you know, -- and it is interesting -- in those waters off Somalia, a lot of times the cargo ships are actually carrying U.S. military cargo back and forth from Iraq and Afghanistan. Those ships do have armed guards on board. This was a strictly commercial cargo, and it's fairly new.
One of the other interesting things -- new for them to have the armed guards. One of the other interesting things, Tony, is this happened 350 miles off the coast of Somalia. That's a good, long distance for pirates to travel. But they are extending their reach more and more in recent months -- Tony.
HARRIS: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for us. Barbara, appreciate it. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: And still ahead, powerhouse preacher T.D. Jakes. His take on whether the abortion debate could or should derail a health care overhaul.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: More than two million votes cast for the CNN Hero of the Year, and today is the final day to cast your vote. Just go to CNN.com -- oh, come on. Make that move. Zoom in. Freeze it. Hold it.
CNN.com/heroes right now if you'd like to vote. Then Thanksgiving night, at 9:00 Eastern, join Anderson Cooper for the all- star tribute to those heroes who are literally changing the world.
You know, in a one-on-one interview with CNN's senior White House correspondent, Ed Henry, President Obama talks about the decision to try September 11th terror suspects in a civilian court and the status of his health care reform effort.
Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: While we have been in Asia, your attorney general decided that there were going to be civil prosecutions of the 9/11 mastermind, other terror suspects.
Did you sign off on that?
OBAMA: You know, I said to the attorney general, "Make a decision based on the law." We have set up now a military commission system that is greatly reformed, and so we can try terrorists in that forum.
But I also have great confidence in our Article 3 courts, the courts that have tried hundreds of terrorists suspects who are imprisoned right now in the United States. And, you know, I think this notion that somehow we have to be fearful that these terrorists possess some special powers that prevent us from presenting evidence against them, locking them up and, you know, exacting swift justice, I think that has been a fundamental mistake.
HENRY: So, that was his decision, but you'll take responsibility if it goes wrong?
OBAMA: I always have to take responsibility. That's my job.
HENRY: Let's talk about health care and the economy.
You've set a lot of deadlines for fellow Democrats. They've missed many of them on Capitol Hill. And you hear Democrats say, you know, why isn't the president more like LBJ? Why doesn't he grab them by the lapels and get this done, get more specific and force these deadlines?
OBAMA: The truth of the matter is, is that we've been very specific. LBJ didn't have the Congressional Budget Office, just to give you one example of how complicated the process in Washington has become.
You know, essentially, Harry Reid was ready with a Senate bill several weeks ago. But it has taken this long for the Congressional Budget Office to present its best estimates of how much this is going to cost, how many savings will be obtained, what kind of savings will be obtained from the legislation.
So, there are just a lot of procedural hurdles that explain why health care hasn't been dealt with in 40, 50, 70 years. But I remain confident that we are going to get this done, and we're going to have a bill that reduces our deficit, bends the cost curve, covers millions of people who don't have health insurance right now. And for people who do have health insurance, makes their insurance more secure.
I'm absolutely confident that we're going to get that done.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: You know, a majority of Americans may favor a woman's right to abortion, but they don't want to pay for it. A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll out today looks at abortion language in the House health care reform bill.
We asked: Should public funds pay for abortions when the woman cannot afford it? Almost two-thirds of those polled, 61 percent, say no, 37 percent say yes. Slightly over half the people in our poll say private health insurance shouldn't cover abortions, 45 percent say yes, that's OK by them.
Bishop T.D. Jakes talked with CNN's Larry King last night about abortion funding and the health care bill. He also responded to criticism about his preaching.
Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Since the health bill is so necessary, reform is so necessary, if it did include payment for abortion, would you ask people to vote for it?
BISHOP T.D. JAKES: I don't ask our people to vote.
KING: Would you support it?
JAKES: Would I vote for it?
KING: Yes.
JAKES: I don't think I would let that deter me from voting for it.
KING: OK.
Have churches been affected by the recession?
JAKES: Hugely.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Less contributions?
JAKES: Lower contributions. Some of them are seeing higher attendance. It depends on the area you live in.
KING: Higher attendance.
JAKES: Higher attendance, less contributions. And some are getting lower. It depends on the demographics.
If you're in Detroit or Cleveland or the areas that are hard hit, the churches are hard hit, too. The churches know (ph) more than the people that are in it.
KING: Oh.
We have a Twitter question. "Why does T.D. Jakes preach more about prosperity and material things than having a personal relationship with God?"
Is that true?
JAKES: First of all, it isn't true. The first time I found out I was a prosperity preacher, I read it. Nobody thought that.
KING: But you talk about prosperity?
JAKES: No.
KING: You don't?
JAKES: Not largely. I do mention it. It's a part of what I preach, but it's not a focal point. Less than five percent of my services are about it.
KING: Should money and materialism have anything to do with the church?
JAKES: It has to do with the people. It has something to do with every part of life in our society, but it's not a focal point of my ministry.
And I was saying what has been a focal point for me was ministering to hurting people. And almost every tape -- I did a message called "Women That Are Loose (ph)" which really exploded around the nation. And it dealt with women who have been abused and assaulted and been through domestic violence. And to say that there was a way out, and my ministry actually exploded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Should women in their 40s get mammograms? Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta questions a member of the government task force that said no.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Let's get you caught up on our top stories now.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton calls tomorrow's inauguration of Afghan President Hamid Karzai a critical moment for the country. Clinton arrived in Kabul a few hours ago. She's meeting with the top U.S. commander there and attending Karzai's inauguration.
Attorney General Eric Holder is on the Hill answering critics of the decision to try 9/11 terror suspects in a civilian court instead of a military tribunal.
Take a listen to this exchange with Republican Senator Jon Kyl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: How could you be more likely to get a conviction in federal court when Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has already asked to plead guilty before a military commission and be executed? How could you be more likely to get a conviction in an Article 3 court than that?
HOLDER: Well, Senator...
(APPLAUSE)
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: In these hearings, as I always do, whether people are supportive or opposed to any position that I take, that we must have -- we must have order. We will have order. The police will remove those who don't.
KYL: Mr. Chairman...
LEAHY: Go ahead.
KYL: ... let me say that your request for order is exactly appropriate, and I concur with that.
Could you answer my question, Mr. Attorney General?
HOLDER: The determination that I make on where I think we can best try these cases does not depend on the whims or the desires of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. He said he wanted to do that then. I have no idea what he wants to do now with regard to these military commissions that, as a result of the work that this committee did, and this Congress did, now has enhanced protections, and I think are better than they once were before.
He may still want to do that in the military commission. I have no idea. My job is to look at the possibilities. Article 3, military commission, where is my best chance of success...
KYL: Well, if I can interrupt you, it would seem to me that given the fact...
(CROSSTALK)
HOLDER: ... that Article 3 courts are the best place to do that.
KYL: Right. I know...
HOLDER: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is not making this decision. The attorney general...
(CROSSTALK)
KYL: Of course, he's not. Mr. Attorney General, you've based this on where you think you're more likely to get a conviction. You talked about the best chance to prosecute. The chances of success are enhanced and so on.
One of the factors has to be the fact that he at least at some time asked to plead guilty. I mean, you have had to have taken that into account.
HOLDER: That was then. I don't know what Khalid Sheikh Mohammed wants to do now, and I'm not going to base a determination a where these cases ought to be brought on what a terrorist, what a murder wants to do. He will not select the prosecution venue. I will select it, and I have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Whoa.
All right. For the second time in seven months, pirates have attacked U.S.-flagged cargo ship Maersk Alabama off the Somali coast. But this time guards stopped the hijack attempt.
We will get another check of your top stories in 20 minutes.
Women are confused and even angry over new mammogram recommendations. A government task force says most women in their 40s don't need routine screenings. The panel recommends mammograms every two years, starting at age 50.
Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, had some tough questions for a task force member.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: About 75 to 90 percent of breast cancers are found in women who have absolutely no family history and no identifiable risk factors. If you are a woman hearing that at age 40, right now watching, 75 to 90 percent of breast cancers found with people who have no risk factors, no family history, what should they do?
LUCY MARION, PREVENTIVE SERVICES TASK FORCE: I would not recommend it. I would not make a recommendation. We're saying that the benefits are small.
GUPTA: What do you mean by that? When you say the benefits are small? Let's not beat around the bush here. What exactly are you trying to say?
MARION: We look at it in various ways. For example, we look at life years gained by the actual screening every year or every other year. And the life years gained for that group is not very large. There are some life years gained. But it's not very large.
GUPTA: You're a nurse and...
MARION: And I know...
GUPTA: I don't want to, you know...
MARION: I am.
GUPTA: ... dig ourselves into a whole here. You're a nurse, you're in a profession of healing and compassion.
Are you comfortable with what you're saying right now? Because what you're saying, what I'm hearing you say is that you're saying some lives just aren't worth it. We -- that's why we're changing these screening recommendations. And that is an incredibly frightening thing to hear from someone like yourself.
Is that what you're saying?
MARION: No, I'm not saying that some lives are worth it. I do not say that. But as you know, as a physician, there are many screening tests that could save lives but could create many other issues that we made decisions about.
GUPTA: So, really, the harm that you're saying to women, the harm that you cite is that it could cause unnecessary anxiety and worry in women who get these mammograms, for example, if they have a false positive? Do you think that it would cause anxiety in women if they are told that look, 90 percent -- up to 90 percent of women who develop breast cancer never had a risk factor and now you're not sure if you have that breast cancer because you didn't get the test? Don't you think that causes anxiety as well?
MARION: Yes, we know that the biggest risk factor is age. And that's clear. And so the other -- and we know other risk factors and we know that many do not have known risk factors if you don't include age.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Wow. OK.
A new poll this hour on the H1N1 vaccine. The overall response may point to trouble ahead.
The CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey finds a mere seven percent have actually received a swine flu vaccination. Fourteen percent of those polled want the vaccine and have tried to get it, but couldn't find a doctor with supplies on hand. Another 21 percent want it but haven't yet tried to get vaccinated.
Well over half, 55 percent, don't want an H1N1 vaccination and don't plan to get one. Most say they're worried about possible side- effects. In Los Angeles, medical marijuana dispensaries now outnumber Starbucks, and the debate over them is heating up as the city council considers a new ordinance.
Here's CNN's Casey Wian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Los Angeles has quickly become the nation's medical marijuana capital. The city attorney estimates about 1,000 pot dispensaries are operating here, most illegally. Although California law allows medical marijuana use and even cultivation in limited amounts, some officials are trying to ban medical marijuana sales in Los Angeles.
DAVID BERGERL, ASST. LOS ANGELES CITY ATTORNEY: The city attorney's analysis of the state law suggests that sales are not allowed whether they are for-profit or not-for-profit.
WIAN: The proposal drew hundreds of medical marijuana supporters to a rowdy, packed city council meeting on Monday.
RICHARD EASTMAN, MEDICAL MARIJUANA SUPPORTER: The dispensaries that provide the medicine that have saved my life and all of the people with cancer and glaucoma and multiple sclerosis and whatever illnesses should be allowed to receive their medicine.
WIAN: Two city council committees voted to allow medical marijuana sales, just not for-profit.
BILL ROSENDAHL, LOS ANGELES CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: I know people today who have various illnesses, especially those with cancer, that it is the only relief that they get because a lot of these prescription drugs that people get addicted to that end up killing them, OK, is not what medical marijuana is.
WIAN (on camera): The idea that the debate over medical marijuana is all about medical necessity is contradicted by the industry's own advertising. Here's the nearly 200-page "Los Angeles Journal" for education on medical marijuana.
(voice-over): Inside, ads feature longtime recreational pot advocate Snoop Dog offers free joints for first time patients, suggestive photos of nearly naked women, and an attorneys who boasts of winning light or dismissed sentences for accused marijuana traffickers. Fourteen states now have laws permitting medical marijuana use.
Colorado Governor Bill Ritter, this week, received legal clearance to collect sales taxes from pot dispensaries. And in Portland, Oregon, last week, the nation's first marijuana cafe opened at a former adult club called Rumpspankers. Smokers must remain behind closed doors.
(on camera): Back in Los Angeles, the full city council is scheduled to vote Wednesday on the new medical marijuana law. Even if it passes, the local district attorney says his office will continue to prosecute dispensaries who sell medical marijuana because, he says, that violates state law.
All this, while the California state legislature is considering a proposal that would tax and legalize marijuana statewide.
Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Boy, how about this? Prescription prices zoom ahead. A possible change to the way we buy and sell health care in this country. Can you count your pennies by counting on generics? I will ask -- there she is -- senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen, up next in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: So, we can't recommend highly enough the good work done by the Money team at cnnmoney.com. If you want the latest financial news and analysis, as always, go to cnnmoney.com.
Let's get you to the New York Stock Exchange now, three hours into the trading day, for a look at the big board. We've been selling most of the morning and the trend continues now.
Dow. The Dow is down 40 points now. We will continue to check these numbers for you throughout the day with Susan Lisovicz, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM, from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.
We have been reporting big drug companies are hiking prices ahead of possible changes to the health care system. CNN's senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is joining me now, live on this.
And, Elizabeth, look, we understand these increases could cost Americans, what, a total of $10 billion this year?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Something like that if you put it all together, yes.
HARRIS: A crazy number here. And we're wondering, when doctors prescribe one of these brand-name prescription drugs, is there a generic alternative that could potentially save you some money here?
COHEN: Often, but not all the time.
HARRIS: OK.
COHEN: So if your doctor prescribes you an expensive brand-name drug and it is for something very common -- it's for depression, it's for high blood pressure, it's for high cholesterol -- there's an excellent chance that there is a generic that would cost a lot less and would work just as well. And it's really important to ask, because take a look at these numbers. They really are amazing.
HARRIS: This is amazing, yes.
COHEN: This is a study from AARP. Brand-name drugs have gone up 9 percent, while generic drugs have gone down 9 percent. You don't need to be an economist to figure out that price-wise your best bet is with the generic drug.
HARRIS: Now, share this story with us. I know that you once helped a woman who had an enormous bill every month for brand-name prescription drugs and you were able to help her.
COHEN: This was. This was a viewer who was unemployed. She had just lost her job. And she had a drug bill of about $500 a month. This woman couldn't afford to live in that -- to pay rent and she had that kind of a drug bill.
So what we did was we went and we found some generics and an over the counter that doctors told us would likely work just as well, because she had common illnesses. So the brands were costing her $489 a month for things like high blood pressure and herpes and she had some stomach problems. But we found generics and over the counters that doctors said would work just as well for $32 a month. I mean that's incredible.
HARRIS: Are you kidding me?
COHEN: Isn't that amazing? Isn't that amazing? And she was very grateful to us.
HARRIS: Well, of course.
COHEN: She said -- because she had stopped taking her drugs because she couldn't afford them.
HARRIS: But here's the thing, not everyone can have Elizabeth Cohen, CNN's senior medical correspondent, jump in and fix the problem here. So what can someone do on their own to sort of reduce this bill every month?
COHEN: You have to be your own empowered patient.
HARRIS: Love that.
COHEN: And this is how you do it. It's actually pretty easy. When you go to the doctor, bring in with you the $4 generic list.
HARRIS: What do you have here? OK.
COHEN: This is the $4 generic list from a pharmacy near me that I often use. You just print it out. Bring it in, so when your doctor gives you a prescription, you say, is that a brand name? And if he or she says, yes, you hand this over. Here, we'll pretend. You're the doctor.
HARRIS: OK. All right.
COHEN: Doctor, is there something on this list that would work just as well for me?
HARRIS: A, b, c, d, e.
COHEN: There you go. It's alphabetized. It's by illness. And as you can see, there's a lot of $4 generics. Just hand it over to him or her.
HARRIS: What I don't have an answer for is this next question. You're asking me, doctor, why in the world would you prescribe one of these high-priced, brand-name drugs when there is a perfectly suitable generic on this list?
COHEN: That cost's $4.
HARRIS: That costs . . .
COHEN: Exactly. I mean I wanted to ask Bernadeen's (ph) doctor, you patient is unemployed and you're giving her drugs that cost her $500 a month when it could cost $32 for things like blood pressure, when there are lots of options out there. Some people would say it's because the pharmaceutical industry spends a lot of money putting pharma reps in the doctors' offices trying to sell them on the expensive drugs. Other people would say, oh, wait a minute, that's not it. It's just that doctors are used to prescribing brand names. They're not as used to prescribing generics.
HARRIS: Right.
COHEN: So I guess it depends on how cynical you are.
HARRIS: I'm pretty cynical.
COHEN: You're pretty cynical. So you might say, when you have these pharmaceutical reps buying lunch for doctors and their staff saying, prescription our expensive drugs, and studies show doctors, they do. They will prescribe those.
HARRIS: And we listen to this audience every day. This is a pretty cynical audience, you guys out there.
COHEN: Oh, OK.
HARRIS: $4. Take the $4 list in.
COHEN: $4. Take it with you. Just take it with you.
HARRIS: That is terrific. All right, Elizabeth, appreciate it. Thank you.
COHEN: Thanks.
HARRIS: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Janet Jackson says a day doesn't go by that I don't think about him. Missing Michael and breaking her public silence on her brother's sudden death. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: All right. Let's get you caught up on our top stories now.
Attorney General Eric Holder is defending his decision to put 9/11 terror suspects on trial in New York. He's on Capitol Hill right now answering questions from the Senate Judiciary Committee. Holder says the civilian trials would give the suspects no more of a platform than military tribunals would.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is in Afghanistan. She plans to attend President Hamid Karzai's inauguration tomorrow to show U.S. support for his government. Earlier the secretary met with General Stanley McChrystal, the commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan.
The U.S. flagged ship Maersk Alabama fights back pirates trying to hijack the ship. It is the second time in seven months pirates attacked the ship off the Somali coast, but this time armed security guards beat back the attack. Last time the pirates took the ship's captain hostage.
They retired early to sail to the world's most exotic destinations. But instead, a British couple is in the hands of Somali pirates today. Here's ITV reporter Angus Walker.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANGUS WALKER, ITV REPORTER (voice-over): Rachel and Paul Chandler have now been held hostage for almost four weeks by Somali pirates. When we last spoke to the couple, Rachel insisted they were being well treated.
RACHEL CHANDLER, HOSTAGE: They tell us that we're safe and that we shouldn't worry. You know, they're very hospitable.
WALKER: But it now seems that their conditions are worsening. ITV News has established the couple are getting ill from the food and water they're being given. Pirates, often desperate themselves -- in this case, impatient for an outcome -- appear to be running out of money to care for their captives. Local clan elders may be able to help.
ROGER MIDDLETON, PIRACY EXPERT: In the past, a German couple who were held, one of them got sick, and through clan elders it was possible to get certain medicines to them to help them get better.
WALKER: The Chandlers left the Seychelles aboard their yacht, the Lynn Rival (ph), on the 22nd of October. They were heading to Tanzania. In the early hours of the next day, they were seized by pirates and forced to sail to Somalia. ITV News has learned the Chandlers are still being held in the area around the coastal town of Haderi (ph), a notorious pirate stronghold. A spokesman for the pirates called ITV News saying he was angry that negotiations over their demand for a $4 million pound ransom had ground to a halt. But it's clear, Somali politicians, including the transitional government's prime minister, who met Rachel Chandler's brother and niece, are working to convince the pirates that the Chandlers are worthless.
HASSAN HAJI IBRAHIM, SOMALI PARLIAMENT MEMBER: Keeping them, they're not going to benefit anything. What we need, you know, to save them, just please release them. They're not worth to you anything. But the government, they are working with the elders there from grass root level. And liaison. And we're doing progress, but it's very, very, very small progress.
WALKER: So the health and fate of the Chandlers depends on any Somalis who may have power over the pirates.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Paul and Rachel Chandler are by no means the only people in the hands of Somali pirates. All told, close to 200 people from eight ships are believed to be hostages.
So, it is bonus season on Wall Street. The top employees at some of the most heavily bailed-out companies are not celebrated this year. Cnnmoney.com's Poppy Harlow is in New York for us.
Good to see you, Poppy.
And, look, I love this term. How much of a haircut are some of these execs taking?
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Yes. I mean, it's an interesting term, Tony. And what we're starting to see, if you dig in these SEC filings, is the actual compensation cuts that they're taking this year. Citigroup is a prime example. We learned just this week, two of their top execs are taking big pay cuts.
Let's show you who we're talking about. The first one is James Forese. He's the co-head of global markets at Citi. Tony, last year he made $12.9 million. This year, Citigroup is guaranteeing him $5.9 million in cash and stock. Yes, that's a lot of money, but it's a big cut from the previous year.
Another example of it, let's take a look at Steven Volke. He's the vice chairman at Citi. He made $10.5 million last year. This year, again, the guarantee from Citi is $3.9 million.
The reason this is happening is because Citi is one of the seven companies . . .
HARRIS: That's right.
HARLOW: Take a look here, we'll show you what we're talking about -- that pay czar Ken Feinberg has said, you have to cut your pay down because they're among the biggest bailed-out companies. So that was the top 25 executives that got those first cuts. And just this week, Tony, we're going to find out just how much of a haircut the next 75 executives, when we look at this company, what they're going to take.
Tony. HARRIS: So there are still more pay cuts to come?
HARLOW: Yes. There certainly are. I mean Feinberg is reviewing the compensation for the next 75 most highly compensated employees at those seven companies. Take a look here. We're going to show you those companies.
HARRIS: OK.
HARLOW: And the goal here is to make a final decision by early December, just before those bonus checks are cut. That has some of these firms worried, Tony. And they have a legitimate reason why. Feinberg, the pay czar, has said, listen, I'm very concerned about the top talent, quote-unquote, at these firms leaving.
I spoke to Jamie Dimon, he's the head of JP Morgan, and he told me as well one-on-one, he's concerned about talent leaving some of the firms.
People weighing in on my Facebook page, they're a little bit different, Tony. I want to read you two quick comments here, what they have to say.
HARRIS: Yes, please, please.
HARLOW: The first one comes from Jeffrey. He said, "they should be forced to live like the rest of us with no perks and trying to make ends meet for at least five years."
Paul said -- this is interesting. Paul said, "they should all be forced to go back to school and prove they can pass Business 101 at the local community college."
HARRIS: Ouch! Ouch!
HARLOW: As you see, this divide between Wall Street and main street really, really exists. So, anyways, those are some of the top details. You can see the full report. It's right here on cnnmoney.com. But we'll be watching it, digging into those numbers, as bonus season rolls around -- Tony.
HARRIS: So you've got a one-on-one with Jamie Dimon to roll out pretty soon here probably?
HARLOW: That was -- no. That was off -- that was just a conversation in a hallway. We were trying to get him on camera. We're still working on that one, Tony.
HARRIS: Yes, yes, make that happen.
HARLOW: We will.
HARRIS: I'll make a phone call to my friend Jamie.
All right, Poppy, appreciate it. Thank you. A case of murder on the battlefield. CNN's special investigate's unit digs deeper into the case of three Army sergeants convicted of killing four Iraqi detainees.
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HARRIS: For the first time since Michael Jackson's death, his sister, Janet, is talking to the media. In a segment that aired this morning, Janet told ABC's "Good Morning America" that she holds Michael's personal doctor responsible. She also shared what she misses most about her brother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANET JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S SISTER: For me, his silliness. His love. How much fun we used to have together. We would practically do everything together, from morning till night. Every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Dr. Conrad Murray has admitted to giving Michael a powerful anesthetic, but has denied any wrongdoing. He has not been charged in the death.
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HARRIS: Boy, an allegation of corruption at its worst. Afghanistan's minister of mines reportedly accepted a $30 million bribe to award the country's largest development project to a Chinese mining company. "The Washington Post" cites a U.S. official familiar with the military intelligence reports. Afghanistan's ministry of mines tells CNN, the minister denies the allegation. The corruption in the country is so pervasive, it's given the Obama administration doubts about the credibility of Afghanistan's government. We've been asking you to weigh in on what you think the U.S. should do next in Afghanistan. Here's what some of you are saying.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CALLER: Hey, my name is Tino Tee (ph) calling from way out here on the West Coast, California. Me, personally, if Russia couldn't get Afghanistan to act right, what makes you think America can? Leave that country to those people, to the Afghanis, and let them figure out their way of life and their government for themselves. America has a bad habit of trying to go to other countries and telling them what to do.
CALLER: My opinion on Afghanistan is, we need to send as many troops as possible. We cannot do what we did in Vietnam. It's looking that way already. It's already five years. Whether the policy of the past was a mistake or whatever, our troops are dying every day. And if we keep this on, they'll continue to die. We need to do what we've done back in World War II and on other times. We need to put constant pressure with a lot of troops. CALLER: The streets of our inner cities are not safe for our own citizens. So if we cannot make our own cities safe, what makes us think we can make Afghanistan safe? Iraq and Afghanistan have cost more than free health care for all Americans. There's no objective. Time to go home, Robert, Los Angeles.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HARRIS: Boy, we appreciate you weighing in. Thanks, Robert. Thanks to everyone who calls us.
And you've been calling us for weeks now. We want to hear from you. More of your comments. Here's the number, 1-877-742-5760. Let us know what you think the U.S. should do next in Afghanistan. You can also get on camera and send us an I-Report. Just go to cnn.com/ireport, tell us again what you think the U.S. should do next in Afghanistan.
Three decorated Army sergeants shot and killed four detainees in their custody at a Baghdad canal. The story about what happened that day in 2007 is contained on Army interrogation tapes obtained by CNN. Special investigations unit correspondent, Abbie Boudreau, has a preview of her report tonight for "AC360."
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ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN INVESTIGATIVE UNIT CORRESPONDENT: We've obtained 23.5 hours of Army interrogation videotapes, where investigators pressed soldiers on details of the crime. Tapes you'll only see here on CNN. Here, Sergeant Michael Leahy, who was eventually convicted of premeditated murder, confesses to firing at two of the men.
INVESTIGATOR: How many times did you fire?
SGT MICHAEL LEAHY, U.S. ARMY: I fired twice. I fired and like this other guy fell back on me and when he fell back on me, I don't know why I fired again. It wasn't at him. Like my arm went up to the right and I fired again. I'm pretty sure I didn't hit anybody, but I'm not going to say that because I don't know for sure. I wasn't even looking when I shot the second time. My arm just went up to the right.
INVESTIGATOR: No reasonable person is going to believe that you shot and then this guy fell back on you. And then your arm went at this angle. If you shot this dude, just say you shot him.
LEAHY: All right.
INVESTIGATOR: Just be honest about it.
LEAHY: It is true. This guy did fall and my arm . . .
INVESTIGATOR: No, I don't doubt that that guy fell on you, but if you purposely shot this guy, Mike, just say it. You've already manned up. You've already shown that's what you're made of. I know it's hard, but I know that's what happened dude. You wouldn't have so much question in your mind right now if you didn't know what happened. And I know it's hard.
LEAHY: You're right. And it . . .
INVESTIGATOR: Just tell us what happened, Mike
LEAHY: I'm like 80 percent sure, yes, I turned and shot this guy. But I'm not 100 percent sure I turned and shot this guy.
BOUDREAU: Sergeant Leahy would go on to tell Army investigators that his bullets killed one of the men but not the other. He says another sergeant actually killed the second man with two bullets to the chest. This is all part of our investigation, "Killings at the Canal, The Army Tapes," tonight only on "AC 360."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: OK, CNN tonight. Was it murder or battlefield justice? See the rest of what CNN uncovered, then decide for yourself. "Killings at the Canal, The Army Tapes," an "AC 360" investigation, CNN tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
Up next, cutting through the outrage over 9/11 terror trials in civilian courts. It's been done before with a lot of complications and with successful convictions.
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HARRIS: Trying September 11th suspects in U.S. courts is not really unchartered territory here. As CNN homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve reports, the attorney general can look back at other U.S. terror trials for lessons.
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JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There has never been a terror attack in the U.S. with the scale and horror of 9/11. And there has never been a trial of an al Qaeda member as important as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. But terror trials in civilian courts are nothing new.
The people responsible for the first World Trade Center bombing and the bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the so-called blind sheikh, who wanted to blow up New York landmarks, shoe bomber Richard Reid, who attempted to bring down a transatlantic airliner, and 9/11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui have all been tried and convicted in federal courts. Some of them in New York.
ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I'm quite confident that we can safely hold people there, that we can protect the people who surround the courthouse area, and bring these cases successfully.
MESERVE: The 9/11 case will differ from others in one important respect. Mohammed was waterboarded, 183 times, and that will complicate the prosecution.
DAVID KELLEY, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Applications will be made by the defendants, for example, not to use any sort of statements or evidence that were the product of any sort of coercion or misconduct.
MESERVE: A defense attorney in the Moussaoui case predicts there will be, as in his case, serious issues of language and culture to overcome and mountains of evidence to explore.
GERALD ZERKIN, MOUSSAOUI DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There were 180,000 FBI interviews. There were hundreds of videos that we had. And there were thousands of CDs. And there were a couple of thousand images on every CD.
MESERVE: Classified evidence has played a part in all the terror cases. But only lawyers, not defendants, have access to it. And it's discussed only behind closed doors.
The blind sheikh and Moussaoui both used the courtroom as a platform to espouse their jihadi beliefs. No one would be surprised if Khalid Sheikh Mohammed does the same thing.
(on camera): Defense attorneys and prosecutors say this trial is likely to be similar to other terror cases in another respect, because of its complexities, it will take years to get underway and try.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
