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American Morning
Somali Pirates Attack the Maersk Alabama for Second Time; President Obama Meets Up With Half Brother in China; The Economics of Piracy; A Look at the Oath Keepers
Aired November 18, 2009 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news from East Africa. It has happened again. Pirates opening fire on the "Maersk Alabama" off of the coast of Somalia; the same ship that they hijacked seven months ago. Thanks for joining us on the Most News in the Morning on this Wednesday, the 18th of November. I'm John Roberts.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kiran Chetry. Yes, we're getting late breaking details this morning from East Africa where Somalia pirates have attacked the "Maersk Alabama" again. It is the second time in seven months that the ship has been targeted off the Somali coast. The ship was headed to port in Mombasa, Kenya when it happened, but this attempted hijacking had a very different ending.
ROBERTS: President Obama now in Seoul, South Korea. The last stop of his Asia tour. Before leaving China, the President sat down with our Ed Henry to talk about getting health care reform passed, sending more troops to Afghanistan, and running for re-election in 2012 perhaps against Sarah Palin.
CHETRY: Some women are saying, I would be dead by now if it were not for a self-exam or early detection from a mammogram, so why is the government panel saying stop? You're going to hear from the experts on the disease from all angles, a doctor who helped craft the new guidelines and a woman who says her mammogram, she had no family history, was a routine mammogram ordered by her doctor, saved her life.
We begin, though, with breaking news off the coast of Somalia. Pirates once again targeting the "Maersk Alabama," the very same U.S. flagged ship that they attacked last spring. It happened overnight 350 miles off the Somali coastline.
This time European navy official say that armed security guards onboard the ship fired back at those pirates and were able to fend off the hijacking attack. Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr joins us now on the phone with new developments on this story. Good morning, Babara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kiran. This time a much different outcome than what happened back in April when the captain of the "Maersk Alabama" was taken hostage by the pirates and the world watched for several days until Captain Phillips could be rescued.
This time a private security team on board was able to fend off the pirates. The pirates tried to board. They came within about 300 yards of the ship. They were fended off with small arms and loud noise making gear that the security team was carrying.
Right now the U.S. Navy says they are actively monitoring the situation, but they will not say if the "Maersk Alabama" is now under military escort.
What may be most interesting in this case, Kiran, is the attempted hijacking did happen 350 miles off the coast of Somalia. As we know, cargo ships have been warned to stay as far as possible off the Somali coast because of the pirate activity, but 350 miles just shows the reach of these pirates.
And sadly activity has picked up again in those waters off east Africa in recent weeks. The monsoon season is over out there. The seas are calm once again, and the pirates are back at it -- Kiran.
CHETRY: They're back at it. But of course there's a new security measures in place, as we've seen. The first time around it was very different because they were not traveling with a security detail, correct?
STARR: Absolutely. Since that happened the U.S. military has really encouraged commercial shipping to take as many protective measures as they can to try to make their shipping pirate proof.
And the commercial shipping industry has responded, because there have been so many hijackings, so many commercial mariner, commercial sailors having their lives put at risk, huge amounts of ransom being paid off to these pirates. They've really been trying to get a handle on the situation.
It's not at all clear that these pirates even knew they were going after one of the most high profile ships in the area once again but this time the "Maersk Alabama" was prepared and was able to fend them off.
CHETRY: As we heard from the EU Navy, they are doing their best to try to go after those pirates who attempted that hijacking today. Barbara Starr for us with new details. We'll check in with you throughout the morning. Thanks, Barbara.
STARR: Sure.
ROBERTS: President Obama arriving Seoul, South Korea, in just the past hour. It's the last leg of his four nation trip to Asia. The standoff over North Korea's nuclear program is expected to dominate the talks there.
Before leaving Beijing, the president played tourist, visiting one of the seven wonders of the world, the Great Wall of China, calling it a magical place. He also sat down for an interview with our Ed Henry, and as Ed tells us, President Obama addressed a host of issues including his new war strategy for Afghanistan.
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: John, Kiran, the president told me he's getting close to a decision on troop levels in Afghanistan. And he revealed that even if he sends more in, he wants them pulled out before he leaves office.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: In the first hint of a timetable for U.S. troops in Afghanistan, the president told CNN he wants most of them home before the end of his presidency.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: My preference would be not to hand off anything to the next president. One of the things I would like is the next president to be able to come in and say I have a clean slate.
HENRY: On the firestorm over 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed being sent from Guantanamo to New York City, the president revealed he did not personally sign off on it.
OBAMA: I said to the attorney general make a decision based on the law.
I think this notion that somehow we have to be fearful that these terrorists possess some special powers that prevent us from presenting evidence against them, locking them up, and, you know, exacting swift justice, I think that has been a fundamental mistake.
HENRY (on camera): So that was his decision but you'll take responsibility if it goes wrong?
OBAMA: I always have to take responsibility. That's my job.
HENRY (voice-over): The president also took responsibility for the sluggish economy when asked a CNN iReporter questions about why bailed out banks have not helped more small businesses and foreclosed families.
OBAMA: Look, I understand people's frustrations. The American people have gone through a very tough year. And my job as president is to help navigate through this tough year. And people who don't have a job right now, people who have lost their home, I would be mad, too. And they expect me to do something about it.
HENRY: As for Sarah Palin's book.
HENRY (voice-over): Are you going to read it?
OBAMA: You know, I probably won't.
HENRY (voice-over): Mr. Obama ducked a question about whether he thinks he and Palin will be candidates for president in 2012. When pressed, the president suggested he could live without running again.
HENRY (on camera): Could you envision a scenario where you don't run for reelection?
OBAMA: If I feel like I made the very best decisions for the American people and three years from now I look at it and my poll numbers are in the tank, and because we've gone through these wrenching changes, you know, politically I'm in a tough spot, I'll feel all right about myself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: But in the next breath the president sounded like someone who would relish taking his case to the American people in 2012, saying he's taking on big issues like health care and Iran that have not borne fruit, but he's confident they will and he'll be rewarded -- John, Kiran.
ROBERTS: Ed Henry for us this morning. We'll have more of Ed Henry's interview later on this hour when President Obama talks about the challenges that he has faced on the world stage.
CHETRY: Also new this morning, victims of the Fort Hood shooting spree could be eligible for the Purple Heart or the civilian equivalent of that medal. A Republican congressman out of Texas, John Carter, this is where his district is, Fort Hood, proposed a House bill Tuesday that would officially recognize the 13 killed and 29 wounded as combatant casualties.
That would allow them to receive the medals and the maximum life insurance benefit available.
ROBERTS: Meanwhile, a fellow House Republican is doing damage control after a remark made to a local television station on Sunday. Illinois Representative Donald Manzula told Rockford station WREX that Guantanamo Bay terror suspects were "driven by some savage religion."
On Tuesday he a mea culpa, claiming that he was not referring to Islam in general but a perverted and violent form practiced by terrorists.
CHETRY: Today Senator Robert Byrd becomes the longest serving member of Congress in history. The Democrat turns 92 on Friday, has represented West Virginia for nearly 57 years, six in the House and 51 and counting in the Senate. That's 20,774 days.
And here's is the kicker -- he has a 98 percent attendance record. Can you believe that? Hats off to Robert Byrd, not only the longevity but the attendance.
ROBERTS: A lot of confusion over the last couple of days after that government task force came down with new recommendations about breast cancer screening. Where do women really stand and what should they do?
We'll ask some breast cancer survivors about that coming up just a little bit later this hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Straight ahead, they're policeman, soldiers, veterans, sworn to uphold the constitution. But they say it doesn't apply to the president. Our Jim Acosta will be here with part three of our "A.M." original series "Patriots or Extremists."
ROBERTS: The president has departed China and is now in Seoul, South Korea, the final stop on his Asian tour. And he is sharing the spotlight today with another Obama. The president's half brother, Mark, lives in southern China. The two men had the same father and they shared a few private moments together Monday night at the president's hotel.
Our John Vause is live in Beijing for us this morning. He sat down exclusively with the president's younger brother and joins us now with an interview that you'll see only on CNN. Good morning, John.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, John.
Mark Obama Ndesandjo says he only met with Barack Obama a few times. They didn't know each other growing up. Even so, he still refers to the president as his big brother.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: At his informal dinner with Chinese President Hu Jintao few hours later, President Obama met briefly in his hotel with his half brother, Mark Obama Ndesandjo.
MARK OBAMA NDESANDJO, PRESIDENT OBAMA'S HALF-BROTHER: We had a big hug. And my wife and he had a big, big hug. He was very powerful, very intense, because he's my big brother.
VAUSE: Mark Obama, who spent the last several years living in southern China, has recently written a semi-autobiographical book, and in that book he says he was often physically abused by his father, Barack Obama Sr.
VAUSE (on camera): Did the president ask you about the experiences with your father, the same father that you both share?
NDESANDJO: What I can say is we talked about family.
VAUSE: Your mom is Jewish and you are Jewish.
NDESANDJO: Yes. I am Jewish.
VAUSE (voice-over): Just like Barack Obama, Mark Obama was the child of a mixed marriage. While he never knew his half brother while growing up, the two have met from time to time as adults.
NDESANDJO: There's always that personal connection, and I don't see him -- I honestly don't see him as president of the United States when I'm next to him.
VAUSE (on camera): Do you have a relationship to pick up the phone and say it's Mark calling?
NDESANDJO: You do that very carefully.
VAUSE: Can you pick up the phone and call him? NDESANDJO: You know, I would say -- I would rather not go into that for various reasons. But the thing is we know how to get into contact with each other if we have to.
VAUSE: It was an emotional meeting for Mark Obama. Not quite the same, it seems, for a president in the midst of crucial talks with China's leaders.
OBAMA: You know, I don't know him well. I met him for the first time a couple of years ago. He stopped by with his wife for about five minutes during the trip. I haven't read the book. But it's no secret that my father was a troubled person.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: President Obama's visit here to China was all about building deeper ties and also spending some time, albeit briefly, on family relationships as well -- John.
ROBERTS: You know, did Mark say why it had had taken so long for the two men to finally meet? It was just a couple years ago.
VAUSE: They met at the inauguration. They met during the debate in Austin when the president was then candidate for the presidency debating Hillary Clinton.
But they are separated by a great deal of distance. And it seems that obviously this was a bigger deal for Mark Obama Ndesandjo than it was for the president, as you can imagine. This is a very rare opportunity for him, but it's a distance issue, and also that they don't really know each other that well which kept them apart, John.
ROBERTS: All right, John Vause for us in Beijing this morning. John, thanks so much.
CHETRY: And still ahead, we'll hear more about President Obama. He had an interview with our Ed Henry, and he really talked about a wide range of issues, some big, big challenges of course facing this administration. He talked about some of the biggest international issues out there.
It's 14 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back. Straight ahead on the Most News in the Morning, millions of women are now questioning what they should do in detecting breast cancer after a government task force issued new age guidelines for getting mammograms. We're going to talk to one woman who says a routine mammogram she had no family history saved had her life. And we're also going to be talking to one of the doctors who helped craft these new guidelines. Sanjay is going to be weighing as well, just ten minutes away.
ROBERTS: New this morning, at least two gunmen may be on the loose right now after a standoff at a TJ Maxx store in Venice, Florida last night. Local reports say two masked men took several people hostage after closing. Witnesses say as many as 15 shoppers and employees were still inside at the time.
The SWAT team stormed the store as just after midnight. All of the hostages escaped unharmed except for one who was spotted being carried out on lawn furniture as a makeshift stretcher.
CHETRY: Oh, wow. All right. Well, (INAUDIBLE) she's doing today.
Meanwhile, tough questions on tap for Attorney General Eric Holder. He's on Capitol Hill for the first time since the decision to grant accused 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed full constitutional rights and to try him just blocks from Ground Zero. Senate Judiciary Committee may also want to know why the FBI didn't act when it discovered communications between a radical Islamic cleric and Major Nidal Hasan, the accused Fort Hood gunman.
ROBERTS: Space shuttle Atlantis closing in on the International Space Station this morning. The bird will do a final spin for station cameras to check to make sure that there is no damage to the thermal tiles on its belly before docking there for a week. NASA says so far all indications are the shuttle made it through Monday's liftoff just fine.
CHETRY: Well, they couldn't even wait two months before reaching into your pockets again. "USA Today" says that United, Delta and Northwest are now raising those $10 and $20, quote, "busy day surcharges" because of all the extra money they've been making. There are now 41 fee days between Thanksgiving and Memorial Day. The highest fee 50 bucks on Monday, February 8th, that's the day after the Super Bowl in Miami.
Wow.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Get you coming and going, right? All right. There you go.
CHETRY: This will actually put your money in the bins that you have to put through security.
ROMANS: Right. It will be easier to take a collection on a plane.
ROBERTS: Yes.
CHETRY: Yes. Well, Christine Romans is here "Minding Your Business" this morning. You're talking about the economics of piracy. We talked about the Maersk Alabama again...
ROMANS: Right.
CHETRY: ... attempted to be hijacked by the Somali pirates. It was thwarted by piracy on the rise.
ROMANS: There are these attempts every single day. In fact this year, especially off the coast of Somalia and the Gulf of Aden, this is already surpassing last year for the number of attempts and the number of hijackings. The yellow dots on there you can see, those are the attempted hijackings. The red are successful hijackings.
This is, as you can see, the most active place in the world for piracy and one of the reasons is because the government -- Somalia has had 15 governments since 1991. Even the Somali prime minister has said that for many, many young men, this is the only form of income in the entire country. So they go as far out as 350, 400 miles out into the gulf with maybe a little 16-foot boat and a few guns and they're able to throw a raft link (ph) hook over and get on the ship.
Also, it is the ransoms that are paid that helps fuel the whole cycle of piracy, frankly. They get more guns, more boats and are able to keep going.
So here are the numbers so far this year. Almost 300 attacks so far this year. Ninety-seven attacks just in the Gulf of Aden. These are successful hijackings of vessels, about 34 altogether. Five hundred fifty-nine hostages have been taken in these vessels. And you can get an insurance policy for this. And these insurance policies have gone up five, six, seven, eight times over the past decade or so as this has become more and more active.
Usually what happens is the money is paid even wired to a bank account or it's dropped onto the deck and then the boat goes on its way, the ship goes on its way. Maybe a million dollars, $2 million honestly, a drop in the bucket to the value of the chemicals that they're taking or the grains they're taking. But just over the past year, an estimate of anywhere from $50 million to $150 million in ransom has been paid.
Why don't we know the exact number? Because they don't like to report it. They don't like to say how much it is because they don't want to tell the hijackers we just paid $3 million last week and then the asking price goes up. So in a way, for years they've kind of just been paying off these hijackers with a million bucks or half a million bucks but that fuels the next round and so you have this very well- oiled piracy business that just keeps going. And, you know, it's picked up in the last few weeks as Barbara Starr reported.
ROBERTS: It can be easy money or as we found out with the latest attack of the Maersk Alabama, a rude awakening for the would-be pirates.
ROMANS: Yes. Because many of them now have private security. Now, you have an international anti-piracy coalition. You have some ships in the area. Obviously, you can never -- militarily, it would be so difficult to just -- it's such a huge expense.
CHETRY: Right.
ROMANS: But it's incredibly important in terms of what we pay for goods, for example. I mean, if you had to go all of the way down around the bottom of Africa, it would be another 20, 25 days to come around instead of the Suez Canal. So it's an incredibly lucrative and dangerous but lucrative business that's going there. And many say that until stability returns to Somalia, this is the way business is going to run.
CHETRY: We're going to be talking a little bit later to Shane Murphy. He was one of the crew members of the Maersk Alabama, the first time around. What does he think now that they've made these changes and got the security detail armed on board. Fascinating stuff. Christine, thank you.
ROBERTS: And coming up next, Jim Acosta with our latest installment in "Patriots or Extremists." They swear an oath to the constitution, but how do they feel about the U.S. president? We'll find out.
Twenty-two minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Twenty-five minutes after the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
They call themselves the Oath Keepers. Policemen, soldiers, even veterans all sworn to uphold the constitution, but not always follow the president of the United States. They say it's for your protection to stop a government takeover, to stop Martial law before it ever happens. Are they patriots or extremists? Our Jim Acosta is here with the final installment of our A.M. original series.
Good morning, Jim.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John and Kiran. You know, this week we've been looking at militias. This organization is a little bit different, but they're very much a part of what is known as this growing patriot movement in this country. In the first two parts of our series, we looked at the growth of private militias in this country.
Now we turn to a group whose founder says he doesn't need a militia. That's because his organization is recruiting its members right out of the military and law enforcement.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA (voice-over): Just a couple of miles off the Las Vegas strip, inside this casino ballroom --
OATH KEEPERS: We solemnly swear --
ACOSTA: Dozens of men and women are taking the oath, an oath they say is to the constitution of the United States.
OATH KEEPERS: So help me God.
ACOSTA: Not they say to the president.
RICAHRD MACK, FORMER ARIZONA SHERIFF: If we're going to watch while our country dies, and think that there's nothing we can do about it, we're wrong.
ACOSTA: They call themselves the Oath Keepers and last month they held their first national conference.
STEWART RHODES, OATH KEEPERS FOUNDER: Our forefathers flew this flag --
ACOSTA: The group's founder, Stewart Rhodes, former Army paratrooper and staffer for Congressman Ron Paul says his members recite a revised version of the oath that's used for enlistment in the Armed Services. But they exclude this phrase: "I will obey the orders of the president of the United States.
RHODES: Our role is not to be obedient to whoever happens to be the leader. Our role is to defend the constitution and the republic.
ACOSTA (on camera): The Oath Keepers aren't in Vegas looking for gamblers. They're seeking out police officers, sheriff's deputies, military veterans, even active duty members of the Armed Forces. If you've taken an oath to protect this nation, the Oath Keepers want you.
(voice-over): The group's Web site features pictures of veterans and active duty soldiers who say they've become Oath Keepers. The patch on this military uniform bears the group's name.
(on camera): Is the Oath Keepers a militia group?
RHODES: No. We don't need to be. We're the military and police.
ACOSTA (voice-over): The Oath Keepers call on their members to disobey any orders as they put it to disarm the American people, or to force citizens into detention camps. It's a pledge Rhodes recites in an anti-Obama DVD called "The Fall of the Republic."
RHODES: Do not obey orders to impose Martial law. I will not obey.
ACOSTA: Mark Potok who monitors extremists groups for the Southern Poverty Law Center says the Oath Keepers are exploiting false rumors found on fringe Web sites.
MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: Many of the Oath Keepers are people who believe that Martial law is about to be imposed at any moment. It is right around the corner.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Do you think President Obama is plotting to build detention camps in this country?
RHODES: I don't know. Do you think President Obama was planning to do that? Who knows? You know, the point -- the point --
ACOSTA: You don't have any evidence of that, the full evidence of that.
RHODES: No. I have no evidence that he's doing that.
ACOSTA (voice-over): But Rhodes insists his group is not anti- government and not anti-Obama.
(on camera): So who's talking about taking those guns away?
RHODES: So we have to wait until someone talks about it before we can say we won't do it.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Brian McGough (ph) with the Democratic- leaning veterans group votevets.org worries soldiers and the Oath Keepers will pick and choose which orders to follow disrupting the chain of command.
BRIAN MCGOUGH (ph), VOTEVETS.ORG: All they're doing is hurting the units. All they're doing is hurting the military, and all they're doing is hurting their friends. And they should really think about that.
ACOSTA: Critics say the Oath Keepers simply vindicate this recent report from the Department of Homeland Security that warned right wing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans. The DHS declined to comment for the story that Rhodes blasted its report at the founding of the Oath Keepers earlier this year.
RHODES: When they across the ocean saving their country, they're considered heroes. But when they come home, now they're considered potential terrorists.
ACOSTA: The group was founded in Lexington, Massachusetts, the site of the first shots fired in the American revolution.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: And as for those orders, the Oath Keepers say they will not obey. We should mention there is no proof that the government is building detention camps around the country and as we've said earlier this week in the series, there are no proposals coming from the White House or Democratic leaders in Congress for new gun control laws, John.
And one thing that's popped up time and again a question that our viewers have had about this series is, you know, is some of this racial? Does it have anything to do with racism?
We didn't find that during this series. One thing that we did find time and again talking to these folks is that President Obama seems to have inherited some issues from the Bush administration that many libertarians, many folks in the so-called patriot movement don't like, things like the bailout, things like the Patriot Act. So in many ways, President Obama is inheriting problems with these groups that he got from the Bush administration.
ROBERTS: There's a lot of what if going on here as well. You know, what if gun control? What if martial law? What if they disrupt the chain of command? Any proof on either side of anything going on?
ACOSTA: Absolutely none whatsoever. And these groups will admit that. They will say as much. They'll say but we want to stop these things before they happen but at the same time the question has to be asked are they planting seeds in people's minds that these things could develop when really there's no likelihood that of this is going to happen.
ROBERTS: Great series, Jim, this week. Thanks so much. Good job.
We want to hear from you, by the way. What do you think of these groups? Are they patriots or extremists judging by a lot of the e- mail that we've been getting, people are pretty split over that. Sound off on our blog at CNN.com/amfix.
As we cross the half hour, here are this morning's top stories. We begin with breaking news. Somali pirates attack the "Maersk Alabama" for the second time today. But this time guards on board fired back and fought them off. Pirates hijacked the Maersk last April and took the ship's captain hostage. He was rescued after five days' time. We're going to speak with Captain Shane Murphy. He was aboard the "Maersk Alabama" and helped negotiate with those pirates. That will be at the top of our 8:00 hour.
Sarah Palin kicks off her book tour in Michigan today. The state she says she went rogue. Palin is expected to draw a huge crowd at the Grand Rapids Barnes and Noble where she will be signing copies of her new bestseller. Palin writes about being disappointed in the McCain campaign's decision to pull out of Michigan during the 2008 presidential race.
And Vermont is the healthiest state in the nation. The annual America's ranking highlights it's low rates of smoking, obesity and child poverty. The states are ranked on 22 different health indicators. Eight of the 10 bottom ranked states are in the south with Mississippi coming in last for the ninth year in a row. Kiran.
CHETRY: 32 minutes past the hour. Millions of women are questioning the best strategy for detecting and fighting breast cancer this morning because yesterday we got news that a government task force is now advising women to wait until their 50, not 40, to start getting mammograms.
So do the risks of early mammograms really outweigh the benefits? We're talking about that today with all sides. Julie Sisskind is a breast cancer survivor who was diagnosed from a routine mammogram. She had no family history at the age of 46. Also, Dr. Lucy Marion, one of the members of the task force and the dean of school of nursing at the Medical College of Georgia joins us to talk about why this task force made the changes to the recommendation. And we also have our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta who is going to be weighing in. Good to see you as well, Dr. Gupta.
So let me start with Julie and just tell us a little bit about your story. As we said, you were 46 years old. You went and had a routine mammogram. And they discovered a pretty big mass in there.
JULIE SISSKIND, STAGE TWO BREAST CANCER DISCOVERED ON ANNUAL MAMMOGRAM: Yes. I had actually gone to see my gynecologist in January of 2008. For, you know, a yearly examination. And everything seemed fine. You know, he didn't have any problems. And I had a mammogram that was scheduled for March.
And I went thinking, you know, there was no reason to be worried since I have no family history or any reason to think that it would be anything but normal and I had the mammogram in the middle of March of 2008. They called me back in and did a biopsy a few days later and discovered that not only did I have breast cancer but it was actually very aggressive tumor.
CHETRY: We have a picture of your mammogram actually as well to show where that tumor was. This mammogram you believe saved your life.
SISSKIND: I do. I believe that without it I don't know how, you know, long it would have gone before I discovered it and when they discovered it in March it was already 3.5 centimeters.
CHETRY: It spread to your lymph nodes as well.
SISSKIND: And it spread to one lymph node, they discovered, I had a mastectomy and they discovered that it had spread to one lymph node from that.
CHETRY: I want to bring in Dr. Lucy Marion just to talk a little bit more about this. Help us understand. Because, yesterday you couldn't bump into anybody who was not talking about the recommendations from your task force about this. What is the message coming out of this recommendation? Is it that people like Julie who would possibly be told to wait until 50, probably wouldn't be alive at least her oncologist said if she hadn't gotten that mammogram.
DR. LUCY MARION, U.S. PREVENTIVE SERVICES TASK FORCE: Well, the good thing about the story that we just heard is that Julie is alive and she did get treatment. So we're really thankful for that. The task force - I would like to be very clear about this. The task force has not recommended no screening from 40 to 49 for women. No breast cancer screening.
They have recommended not to start the routine exams, the screenings, rather to start the conversation with their clinician be it a physician, nurse practitioner, physician's assistant, about when to start to look at the positives and the negatives and then set a path for the screenings that they will have during the time of the 40s.
You're right. Everybody has been talking about this and I had to get my materials out again and see what we did to make sure that we state very clearly that we are recommending against routine and not all screenings during those ages.
CHETRY: Right. But Julie as well as others say that if it weren't for their routine mammogram screening in 40s they won't be alive today. And in fact, one breast cancer surgeon in New York Presbyterian Hospital says 25 percent of the patients they are diagnosed with breast cancer are between the ages of 40 and 50 and she says you are basically denying a lot of young, healthy, dynamic women the opportunity to be cured. Do you agree with that?
MARION: Well, again, I'll go back to how we make these decisions. We spent some time and with experts from evidence-based practice centers and from our cancer network modeling group to look at all the data that's there and yes, there are benefits from mammograms all the way through the 40s. They are small though. And there's moderate evidence that those benefits are small and the benefits grow starting at 50. The most benefit is from 60 to 69.
And yesterday when I was at CNN, I was stopped by two women who had breast cancer in their 30s. So we have put all of those findings together, deliberated it at length and made these recommendations about routine screening and when we say routine, you get a letter in the mail saying you're 40 and you should go get a mammogram. We're not recommending that. We're recommending starting the conversation about when to start it.
CHETRY: No, I understand what you're saying. But there are many people who say they had no family history of breast cancer and that they wouldn't be alive today. And I understand what you're saying which is that it's a small amount of people, relatively speaking, that perhaps had no family history and this mammogram discovered breast cancer in that range of 40 to 50.
But what a lot of these women are saying is are you saying I don't matter or that my family I'm leaving behind doesn't matter because on this, you know, chart I may not fall into the group that gets the most benefit out of mammograms.
MARION: Again, that conversation about how often - we feel confident that clinicians will make decisions about mammograms through these years that will be appropriate for that woman and yes, we don't - there are many things we don't know.
Again, the 30s, the two women that stopped me yesterday, one at 31 and one at 37. Should they have had routine mammograms? And so we looked at the data and we see small benefit and we are saying this routine screening is not what we recommend but rather this conversation to start at age 40.
CHETRY: All right. Let me bring in Sanjay here. Because Sanjay, this is the question that a lot of people have this. Early intervention and early screening has been the universal message that we have heard. We've heard so many people say, you know one in eight women will get breast cancer. It will touch your life, your friend's life.
Are we now sending mixed messages to women who perhaps, you know, by saying that maybe you don't need a mammogram in your 40s. Maybe waiting until 50 is fine for the vast majority of people. What type of message is that sending? DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it is confusing, no question. Certainly for a reporter and also or a doctor. And I wonder if I can ask Lucy Marion just following up on that a little bit. About 75 up to 90 percent of breast cancers that are caught in that particular age group were in people with absolutely no risk factors as Kiran was sort of alluding to.
So I'm a doctor, Miss Marion, a patient is going to come to me and you're saying start the conversation with someone like me. What am I suppose to tell them? If I say to them 75 percent to 90 percent of breast cancers were caught in people who had no previous history, what are they supposed to do? What would someone reasonably do with that information at the end of all of this?
MARION: Again, with that conversation, the woman then has the right to choose or the opportunity to choose - look at the options of the screening mammogram, what time of screening that might be appropriate for her type of breasts and density and those kinds of things and so the physician then and nurse practitioner and physician's assistant would sit down -
GUPTA: The problem is they're not getting to that point in the conversation. They're not getting to that point in the conversation to decide which screening test but if they're deciding not to get a screening test at all, isn't that a problem. 75 to 90 percent of breast cancer in women who had no history, had no inclination, they are going to have a problem but it was found in a screening test. Isn't a problem to have a recommendation saying advising against routine screening? What does it mean to doctors, for example?
MARION: We did not advise against it. We advised against routine screening every woman. And you have figures. I have the figures. The task force has the figures. We went through multiple lines of data. And indeed we will always be able to identify cancers with multiple screenings, every year screenings but the benefit is small. And so it is a dilemma. It is a dilemma for us all. We brought the data together.
CHETRY: I understand.
GUPTA: If I can just say really quick as far as small benefit goes, you're talking about saving one life for every about 1,900 mammograms. So I'm not sure why you keep saying small. That's about, you know, $190,000 if you have to place a value on it which is essentially what the task force did, placing a value on life.
Why do you keep saying that's a net benefit that's small? There are about 15 percent of women out there with breast cancer right now who found their breast cancer on a routine mammogram. I don't understand. Small seems almost insulting to people out there whose lives have been saved by this.
MARION: I'll have to bring you back to the studies that we did and we're not saying that there's no value to a life of those women. We certainly put no dollars on it. We certainly did not do any cost effectiveness studies. We just looked at the data and we said that the increase starting at 50 is certainly moderate in terms of the risk and the benefit of the screening.
And we've identified that as the time when the increase is most significant and we started and we recommended the screening biannually which again is not every year but every other year because of the benefit of that schedule rather than every year. And we've been more specific with this instead of one to two years we said every other year and those are the recommendations that ...
CHETRY: You said that you guys didn't put a dollar figure on this but they say they do about 37 million mammograms each year in the U.S., about 100 bucks a mammogram so if that figure is chopped in half, as you said, every other year, you're saving billions of dollars in medical cost.
And one insurance group says, yes, these knew guidelines will be included in our HMO coverage. This is the New York health plan. And so it just begs the question, Julie, if your mammogram was not covered, would you have - if you knew you had to pay out of pocket, you had no risk of breast cancer in your family, you have no family history of it, would you have paid out of pocket for a mammogram out of pocket if your doctor said, you know what, this isn't covered and it's not really recommended for someone in your age group?
SISSKIND: I think if it hadn't been recommended, as I said before, I had absolutely no reason to ever think that I would have breast cancer and I think that I probably would have thought twice before doing it but I also just want to say that I think for her to say that the benefit is small is just incredibly insulting to women all over the country who have been saved through early detection and early screening.
And I think if you would ask our families and our children and our husbands, the benefit is not small to us and it's not small to them. And if it saves just one life, I think it's worth it.
CHETRY: All right. We don't mean to beat up on you, Lucy. So I want you to be able to get the last word here. Are you guys perhaps go back to the drawing board and seeing what the outcry is among doctors, among oncologists, among survivors and maybe reconsider these recommendations?
MARION: Well, first I would like to make sure that it's understood that we didn't recommend no screening. So a health system would not be likely to say our guidelines say no screening. It clearly states no routine screening and we don't recommend routine screening but that the conversation should take place and a decision based...
CHETRY: Yes, we got that. Are you guys going to change your recommendations after this outcry?
MARION: Well, the data has not changed. I'm sure we'll have conversations, but the data is still there.
CHETRY: All right. We're going to leave it right there. We are out of time. But I want to thank you, Dr. Lucy Marion as well as Julie Sisskind and we have your 16-year-old son right here with us. I know that as you said before, this is something that's a huge - no small miracle that you're here today because of this early screening and this routine screening.
And Dr. Gupta, thank you for your input and your insight there and your questions as well. Appreciate it to everybody. Thanks. 45 minutes past the hour. John -
ROBERTS: And breaking news this morning. Secretary of state Hillary Clinton has just landed in Kabul, Afghanistan. It's a surprise visit and it comes at an important moment on the eve of the inauguration of President Hamid Karzai.
Let's check in with our Sara Sidner. She is in Kabul for us this morning. And obviously, the two will have a lot to talk about, Sara, not the least of which will be the issue of corruption in the Afghan government.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, that will be one of the top issues that I'm sure the two will discuss there. Expected to have dinner tonight together and then of course Mrs. Clinton will be here for the inauguration.
And we should mention that this is Hillary Clinton's first trip to Afghanistan since becoming the secretary of state of the United States. So a big deal for her to be here today and the Karzai administration welcoming her.
First she is expected to go to the embassy to meet with embassy officials here in the capital of Kabul and then she is expected to go dinner and have a meeting with Mr. Karzai -- John?
ROBERTS: Do we have any idea how long she's going to be in country?
SIDNER: We do believe that she will be here for the inauguration which is tomorrow. It will be held in a fortified presidential palace and there are lots of leaders from around the world are expected to come, high officials from other countries expected to be here.
Many analysts are looking at this as a way to show their support for Mr. Karzai and as you know the administration has been through many, many ups and downs none the least the very, very difficult and embarrassing elections that happened back in August that was fraught in fraud, and then after that a runoff election that never happened, and then Karzai was put into place by the Independent Election Commission which he actually put into their jobs.
So a lot of speculation about what people would take seriously the fact that he has become president again. The countries including NATO allies are trying to make sure that he, in fact, does have the support he needs. But they have been very, very serious with him and very, very pushy, so to speak, to try to get him to really clamp down on corruption and again and again you're seeing stories come out about the corruption that is -- really has mired his administration for the time that he has been president and it continues to be a problem.
He has said that he is going to first thing going to work on creating a better governance in this country -- John?
ROBERTS: Breaking news this morning. The Secretary of State Hillary Clinton dropping down in Kabul, Afghanistan. Her very first trip there. And Sara Sidner with us with that. Thanks very much, Sara.
Forty-seven minutes after the hour. Rob Marciano has got the weather forecast coming up next and if you're planning on flying anywhere in the next couple of days in the East Coast, you'll want to listen up. Stay with us.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to "The Most News in the Morning." We're coming up on 50 minutes past the hour right now. And our Rob Marciano is tracking extreme weather for us this morning.
And you indicated that maybe you will give us a little hint of what's to come for the Thanksgiving holiday.
MARCIANO: Well, as you know, as we go closer to Thanksgiving, closer to Christmas, things get colder. And...
CHETRY: Thanks, Rob. Appreciate that.
MARCIANO: ... that brings in, you know, the greater possibility...
ROBERTS: For this? For this he went to school?
(LAUGHTER)
MARCIANO: There's a chance we see a pretty decent storm as we get closer to Thanksgiving. That's all I'll say. And it will be Chicago towards New York area down to the south, and you know, it could incorporate more Christmassy type weather. Just cross that bridge when we get there. OK? Is that enough?
CHETRY: Absolutely.
ROBERTS: Go out on a limb.
MARCIANO: Look at this storm, John. Not nearly what some of our computers are saying about the future storm next week potentially. But it's not moving very quickly. So it's kind of winding itself out. But we're seeing some rain across Chicago and Cincinnati, so if you travel through those cities, I think you're going to see some issues, maybe St. Louis and Charlotte also.
Atlanta, just some low clouds are kind of in this wedge yesterday and today with a lot of drizzle. Seattle, low clouds, rain and wind. More coming your way with this storm system that's been pretty impressive across a series of storm systems impressive across parts of the Pacific Northwest.
There's the Mount Hood, just about an hour and change to the east of Portland where the kids -- they got out there and enjoyed it. A couple of feet of fresh snow, we expect to see more feet of snow pile up there in the high country of the Oregon cascades.
As far as what you're going to see today across parts of the northeast, high pressure remains in control, so that's good. How long will it remain in control? Well, probably through today, I think that's about it. This slow-moving storm will eventually lumber off towards the northeast and bring you just a little bit of rain. It shouldn't all that bad.
And meanwhile, fairly mild temperatures rebounding across parts of the high plains. I've probably said way more than I should have there, John and Kiran. I resent you for pressuring me into that. About next week.
ROBERTS: He said very little while actually saying even less. So Rob, I think you're pretty good.
(LAUGHTER)
MARCIANO: Meteorology 101. First thing you learn.
ROBERTS: There you go. Thanks. But we did learn a valuable lesson that it does get cold as you get closer to Christmas. Thank you for that.
CHETRY: And in August it sometimes gets hot.
ROBERTS: And once in a while, it's been known to. Thanks, Rob.
This morning's top stories just minutes away including growing controversy over the White House decision to put the suspected 9/11 mastermind on trial in New York City. The latest from CNN Homeland Security correspondent Jeanne Meserve just ahead.
CHETRY: Also ahead, they are supposed to help your heart but there is a new report saying too much folic acid or Vitamin B12 can actually increase your risk for cancer. We're "Paging Dr. Gupta," to separate fact from fiction.
ROBERTS: And give him a hand. Yes, five cards. A 21-year-old college drop-out ignores his mom's advice and collects a cool $8.5 million by winning the World Series of Poker.
Those stories and more coming your way in our next hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to "The Most News in the Morning." A single mom is taking on the Pentagon this morning.
ROBERTS: She is refusing to deploy to Afghanistan, saying that her infant son would be left alone if she shipped out. Our Brian Todd has the emotional story for us this morning.
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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kamani (ph) Hutchinson, less than a year old and caught up in the middle of a high-profile dispute between his mother and the U.S. Army. Kamani's mom, Specialist Alexis Hutchinson, is restricted to her post at Fort Stewart, Georgia.
A single mother, she is under investigation by the Army after missing her deployment to Afghanistan earlier this month. An official at Fort Stewart tells CNN Specialist Hutchinson showed up practically on the eve of her deployment and said her family care plan had fallen through, that she couldn't find anyone to care for Kamani. The official wouldn't discuss possible charges she could face, but her civilian lawyer did with CNN affiliate KGO.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: AWOL, missing movement, desertion, failure to have a family care plan, and disobeying an officer.
TODD: The attorney told CNN the Army threatened to court-martial Hutchinson if she didn't deploy after reneging on a promise to give her more time to find care for her son. A spokesman at Fort Stewart emphatically denies both claims.
KEVIN LARSON, FT. STEWART SPOKESMAN: The Army did give her a 30- day extension and like all soldiers was given plenty of time to work out another care plan.
TODD: Kevin Larson says Hutchinson's Army unit has known for months that it would deploy to Afghanistan, that she was given an extension in August and September, and that it wasn't until the last moment that she told them she had no one to care for her son. Hutchinson had tried to place him with her mother, Angelique Hughes.
Hughes initially tried but said she couldn't handle it because she had other relatives in her care, plus a home daycare operation. Still, with his mother under restriction Kamani is now back with his grandmother.
ANGELIQUE HUGHES, KAMANI HUTCHINSON'S GRANDMOTHER: I'm spreading myself thin. And then I do with kids all day long, so I have not a break in between anywhere.
TODD: I asked former Air Force JAG officer Michelle McCluer about this case.
(on camera): Does Specialist Hutchinson have a legal or regulatory leg to stand on in this case?
MICHELLE MCCLUER, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF MILITARY JUSTICE: Most likely not. I mean, when soldiers are ordered to deploy and single soldiers included, they have to have a family care plan in place, if they are single or military married to military, and they need to implement that. TODD (voice-over): And it says so in black and white. Military form DA 5305, the family care plan each soldier has to agree to when they sign up. It says if they don't have a plan to take care of their families while deployed they could face disciplinary action. Then in a check-off space for soldiers, it says, "If arrangements for the care of my family fail to work I am not automatically excused from prescribed duties, unit deployment or reassignment."
(on camera): Still, Hutchinson's attorney told us she is going to try to get an administrative discharge for her under one military statute that allows you an out if you can't perform your duties because of parenting responsibilities.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
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ROBERTS: The latest on the Maersk Alabama pirate attack. And Hillary Clinton's surprise trip to Afghanistan. The top stories coming your way in 90 seconds here on "The Most News in the Morning."
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