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Searching for 60 Votes in the Senate; Corruption Runs Deep in Afghanistan; Recommendation to Reduce Mammograms
Aired November 19, 2009 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Now for our top-of-the-hour reset, I'm Tony Harris in the CNN NEWSROOM.
It is noon on Capitol Hill, where Senate Democrats are trying to round up 60 votes to bring a health care reform bill up for debate.
It is 11:00 in New Orleans, where a federal court finds the Army Corps of Engineers is legally to blame for much of the Katrina catastrophe.
And it is a time of confusion over routine mammogram screenings before age 50.
Let's get started and let's try to clear the air a bit here.
They've got the price tag, but can they sell it? We are talking about Senate Democrats and their massive health care reform bill. Nonpartisan number crunchers say it will cost $848 billion over 10 years. Now comes the sales job.
Senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash live from Capitol Hill.
And, Dana, Harry Reid said of all the health care plans out there, his was going to be the best. All right. What's in it?
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's in it, actually, is there's many things that are similar to what the House passed. For example, if you have a pre-existing condition, if this becomes law, you will no longer be able to be discriminated against by insurance companies. They will have to still insure you.
Everybody pretty much will have to get insurance. And if you don't, for most people, if you are at a high enough income bracket, you will have to pay a penalty.
And then there is the controversial public option, the government-run health insurance option. This does have that, but it also allows states to opt out.
And you asked about whether or not the votes are there. Well, guess what? It is really hard to imagine at the end of the day, when the Senate finally votes, probably in, what, three, four, or maybe even more weeks, that that will actually be intact, because there are a number of conservative Democrats who still say they can't for that, they don't want a government-run health insurance option. The question in the short term is whether or not those conservatives will at least say they're OK with voting yes to start debate. That could be on Saturday -- Tony.
HARRIS: Hey, Dana, the preliminary price tag on this is huge, and then there's the claim that it will reduce the deficit. How?
BASH: Well, let me give you some examples of how they are going to pay for this, particularly with regard to taxes.
It is quite different from what they are doing in the House, which is essentially a tax on the wealthiest Americans. Instead, what the Senate bill does is a 40 percent tax on high-cost, so-called Cadillac insurance plans. And the Medicare payroll tax will be slightly increased for families making over $250,000.
Here's a new one for you, Tony.
HARRIS: Yes.
BASH: A five percent tax on elective cosmetic surgery, that's new. It's already got a nickname up here. We've been talking about it all morning, the "bo-tax." That is what it is being called. And, in fact, for non-medically necessary botox, that will be included in this new five percent tax.
HARRIS: Well, there are about 50 snappy one-liners I'm going to just pass up on at this moment and ask this question -- you know, Dana, we've been following this for weeks and months now. Abortion funding is still a possible deal-breaker here.
What can you tell us?
BASH: What the Senate bill has with regard to abortion coverage and the abortion language is far less strict than what the House passed. It essentially does say that no federal funding, no taxpayer dollars, should go for abortion coverage. But the guidelines, if you will, aren't as tight as what the House passed.
For example, in the public option, it does allow the secretary of Health and Human Services to determine whether abortion would be covered there, as long as she can make sure that no taxpayer dollars would be used for it. And in the private plans, as part of this new government-run exchange...
HARRIS: Yes.
BASH: ... they, too, would be allowed to offer abortion coverage if the funds are separated to make sure that they are not actually coming from taxpayer dollars.
Now, this is the same kind of concept that was going on in the House that anti-abortion Democrats and, frankly, with the backing of the Catholic bishops, they put a stop to, because they said it's just not strong enough. It is likely at this point to be OK to get through the Senate, but when you're talking about the end game, getting this health care bill to the president's desk, it's hard to imagine this kind of language getting back through the House.
It is going to be a big, big fight, and you're talking about several weeks from now. But it is going to one of the last things I think we're going to be talking about.
HARRIS: All right. Our senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash for us.
Dana, thank you.
BASH: Thank you.
HARRIS: Congress is taking a look at the Fort Hood shooting spree today and how to head off such a tragedy in the future. The Senate Homeland Security Committee is asking how the Army missed warning signs about alleged shooter Major Nidal Hasan. Experts say the military must learn how to uncover soldiers who develop extremist views.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JOHN KEANE, FORMER VICE CHIEF OF STAFF, U.S. ARMY: Radical Islam and jihadist extremism is the most transformational issue I have dealt with in my military service, and continues to be so today. In my judgment, it is the most significant threat to the security of the American people that I have faced in my lifetime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Wow. Pretty strong.
The Pentagon looks ready to move on the failures that led up to the Fort Hood shooting spree. A senior Pentagon official tells CNN Defense Secretary Robert Gates is planning a systemwide review. It is aimed at making sure such an attack never happens again. Particularly, how to identify military personnel who may be dealing with mental health issues.
Americans are certainly weighing in on intelligence failures surrounding the Fort Hood shooting. A new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll asks, "Could federal law enforcement agencies or the military have headed off the attack?"
Two thirds, 64 percent, say yes; 31 percent say no. We also asked whether the acts of Nidal Hasan, the alleged gunman, were terrorism. You were about evenly divided on that question. Forty- five percent say yes; 47 percent say no.
President Obama is headed home after wrapping up an eight-day trip to Asia. The final stop was Seoul, South Korea, for talks with that country's president.
North Korea was, as you would imagine, a major focus. The president is sending an envoy to North Korea next month for talks on dismantling its nuclear program.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our message is clear. If North Korea is prepared to take concrete and irreversible steps to fulfill its obligations and eliminate its nuclear weapons program, the United States will support economic assistance and help promote its full integration into the community of nations. That opportunity and respect will not come with threats. North Korea must live up to its obligations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: The message for many air travelers this morning was hold tight. A failed computer system caused flight delays across the country, including right here at Hartsfield-Jackson International in Atlanta. The system used by pilots to file flight plans was out of service for a little more than three hours.
The FAA says the problem has been fixed. The system appears to be the same one that failed in August of 2008.
A federal judge rules the Army Corps of Engineers' failure to maintain a critical navigation channel led to catastrophic flooding after Hurricane Katrina. The Lower Ninth Ward and St. Bernard Parish, two of the areas hit hardest.
This hour, the plaintiffs are talking about the ruling.
Help me here. Live pictures there a moment ago?
OK. Those were live pictures a moment ago.
The Mississippi River Gulf Outlet was a shipping channel linking New Orleans to the Gulf of Mexico. In his ruling, the judge said because of the Corps' failure to maintain the channel, erosion widened it at its banks, which helped protect the levees deteriorated.
The judge awarded more than $700,000 to the plaintiffs. Tanya Smith (ph) is one of the plaintiffs appearing at this hour's news conference. She will be joining us later in the hour.
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin dropped in on CNN's NEWSROOM earlier this hour. He told our Fredricka Whitfield this ruling is huge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR RAY NAGIN (D), NEW ORLEANS: And what this does particularly for the people in the Lower Ninth Ward, many of them did not get enough money from the Road Home Program, which were the federal grants. Many businesses did not get enough help. And hopefully this ruling will open up the floodgates, if you will, for those people to receive proper compensation.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Did you anticipate this outcome, or did you think this is a long shot, no way the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is going to be held accountable? NAGIN: Well, I thought it was a long shot. We've had a couple of cases that went down in flames, if you will. There was a law in 1928 that pretty much gave the Corps immunity. So, this was a surprise, but a pleasant one.
WHITFIELD: And what do you expect happens from here? While the six, you know, will receive their settlement, and you mentioned there may be an opening of the floodgates for others to bring judgments, then, against the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, do you also see that perhaps the federal government might appeal this decision, that perhaps it might not be that easy?
NAGIN: I think this is going to take some time. I'm sure the federal government will appeal, because if this is allowed to stand -- and I think you will see a multitude of lawsuits, the city of New Orleans included, and I think it will create a lot of liability for the federal government. But it also may ensure justice at the end of the day.
WHITFIELD: And how this -- how might this impact the continuing efforts to reinforce the levees, to strengthen what you do have?
NAGIN: Well, Congress has already appropriated about $14 billion to repair the levees throughout the metropolitan area. A lot of that work is ongoing, and we got through one more hurricane season, and I think we'll fill in some holes that I was concerned about. So, we probably have the best hurricane protection system we've ever had in the city's history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Hamid Karzai has been sworn in for another term as president of Afghanistan, and he is talking about corruption in his government. We'll tell you what he is saying.
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Afghan President Hamid Karzai setting ambitious goals for his second term in office. Speaking today at his inaugural ceremony, the Afghan leader said he hopes to have his country take over its own security -- listen to this -- within five years. He also vowed to tackle corruption and drug trafficking, and he said he was sorry if he had left down his allies.
Mr. Karzai's speech comes as he faces intense pressure to crack down on corruption.
There are no specific accusations against President Karzai personally, but reports of corruption in his government have cost him credibility at home and abroad.
CNN foreign affairs correspondent Jill Dougherty has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eight years after the U.S. invaded Afghanistan, it's now the second most corrupt country in the world after Somalia, a cancer that's chipping away at any faith Afghans might have in the government of President Hamid Karzai.
"For the last five years, we haven't had security," this student says. "Now, I want him to stand by his word and the oath he's taking. He must fire the corrupt government officials."
From the bribe-taking cop on the beat to top officials, experts say the Afghan government is a web of corruption.
MALOU INNOCENT, CATO INSTITUTE: The corruption that's so endemic and so pervasive within the society has actually pushed many Afghans to sort of side with insurgents, that offer themselves as a righteous alternative to the corruption of the Karzai regime.
DOUGHERTY: President Hamid Karzai himself was involved in an election campaign marred by massive vote fraud. Allegations abound that his half-brother, Ahmed Wali Karzai, is linked to Afghanistan's drug trade -- something that brother has repeatedly denied. Now, new allegations in a front page "Washington Post" report that the minister of mines accepted a nearly $30 million bribe. The ministry denies it.
Karzai's government is creating a new major crimes task force with help from the FBI and a national anti-corruption tribunal. But U.S. officials say the real test is whether they will be implemented. In Kabul, Afghanistan for President Karzai's inauguration, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, officials tell CNN, is driving home to Karzai that the U.S. wants deeds, not words, when it comes to fighting corruption.
HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: There is now a clear window of opportunity for President Karzai and his government to make a new compact with the people of Afghanistan, to demonstrate clearly that we're going to have accountability and tangible results.
DOUGHERTY (on camera): Some experts doubt President Karzai really will crack down on corruption. They say he owes his political success to warlords and others, and cutting them off could be political suicide.
Jill Dougherty, CNN, the State Department.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: We've been asking for your thoughts on what the U.S. should do next in Afghanistan, so let's hear some of your responses right now.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Dorothy. I'm from Canton, Ohio. And the reason I'm calling, I don't think any more of our boys should die for those people over there, because all they are is nuts. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, I'm Mike. I'm calling from Las Vegas.
I think the president really needs to get out of Afghanistan. But if he's going to stay in Afghanistan, then go through the prisons around this country and take all these gang members that want to kill people, take them out and put them over there in Afghanistan, and have a nice day. This thing is stupid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Shawna (ph), and I'm from Oklahoma. And my son is serving in the Stryker Brigade over in Afghanistan.
And I just wanted to say to everyone that my son is begging for more troops. They've lost a lot of men out of their units since October 27th.
And please, Mr. President, please send more troops. I told my son that you had already sent more troops, and you haven't.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HARRIS: Oh, boy.
And you can still voice your concerns, your comments. And there's the number for you: 1-877-742-5760. And if you jump in front of a camera, give us your thoughts on the same question and then go to CNN.com/ireport, and we will put those iReports on the air as well.
The question, again, what do you think the U.S. should do next in Afghanistan?
The secretary of Health and Human Services is among those pushing back against a recommendation to reduce mammograms, and also pushing back against those who link those recommendations to health care rationing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Let's get you caught up on our top stories right now.
Senate Democrats getting ready for a showdown over health care reform. Their long-awaited reform plan would cover another 30 million people, at an estimated cost of $848 billion over 10 years. Republicans vow to do what they can to block the bill.
A federal judge holds the Army Corps Engineers liable for some of Hurricane Katrina's worst flooding. The ruling leaves the government open to billions of dollars in claims.
Flights across the country were delayed this morning due to a computer glitch. The computer is used by pilots to file their flight plans. The system was out more than three hours before being restored.
We will get another check of your top stories in about 20 minutes. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius is trying to calm concerns over new mammogram guidelines. She is suggesting that women should ignore a federal panel's recommendation for breast cancer screenings to start at age 50 instead of 40. Sebelius tells CNN the panel does not have the final word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: They do not make policy decisions. They don't make coverage decisions. And that's really the critical piece. Those recommendations are taken in. In this case, I think what we know is that mammograms definitely save lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Sebelius says women should keep doing what they've been doing, talk to your doctor about your individual history and make the decision that is right for you.
CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen looks at both sides of the mammogram controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The government might say routine mammograms are unnecessary for women in their 40s, but Sarah Fought would beg to differ. A routine mammogram caught her breast cancer when she was 42.
SARAH FOUGHT, BREAST CANCER SURVIVOR: I think it saved my life because my cancer was detected earlier.
COHEN: She says she's horrified by the new recommendations.
FOUGHT: It's foolhardy, and I think you're playing with people's lives.
COHEN: Many experts agree with her. The American Cancer Society, the American Society for Clinical Oncology, Susan G. Komen for the Cure, and the Patient Advocate Foundation all disagree with the government and say women in their 40s should get mammograms.
The government task force agrees that mammograms do catch cancer in women in their 40s. In fact, that 15 percent of cancers in women that age are detected thanks to mammograms.
But they also say there are downsides to mammograms. Women get exposed to small amounts of radiation year after year, plus there are lots of false positives that make women worry unnecessarily and prompt biopsies that aren't needed.
Lucy Marion is on the government task force that put out the new recommendations.
(on camera): But what do you say to a women who says a mammogram saved my life in my 40s?
LUCY MARION, U.S. PREVENTIVE SERVICES TASK FORCE: Well, what do I say to the woman who called me today and said, "Thank goodness for the new guidelines, because I've had so many unnecessary biopsies, and they've been painful and they've been costly. I've had to pay for some of them out of pocket, and every time it was benign"?
COHEN: So, for years, we've been telling women get your mammograms starting at age 40.
So you think we were wrong all those years?
MARION: I think that we probably were overzealous, but we weren't wrong based on what we had at that time. It was not wrong at the time.
COHEN (voice-over): Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: If you're unemployed and relying on COBRA for health insurance, listen up. Thousands of Americans are about to see their COBRA premiums, yes, go up.
Personal Finance Editor Gerri Willis is here to explain.
What's happening, and what options are out there, Gerri? Can you help us break this down?
GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: Yes. Tony, this is complicated. First a bit about COBRA
HARRIS: Yes.
WILLIS: It's the health care law, the federal law, that allows you to continue group health care coverage after you've been laid off.
Now, back in February, the government provided a 65 percent subsidy for COBRA premiums for those who were unemployed, and that meant you only had to come up with about 35 percent of the premiums. But for those people who signed up in March, that subsidy is going to expire at the end of the month. And on December 1st, instead of paying the 35 percent premium, you'll be on the hook for 102 percent of COBRA premiums, and that's not small change.
Consider this -- under the subsidy, the average is about 400 bucks for a month for a family coverage. But after the subsidy expires, the monthly payments jump to $1,137. And, of course, if you just began receiving the subsidy, you have nine months until it runs out -- Tony
HARRIS: So, what can you do if that benefit is expiring, Gerri?
WILLIS: Well, Tony, if your subsidy is going to expire and you still don't have a job, make sure you try to get on your spouse's health care plan if they have employer-based coverage, best-case scenario. If that's not possible, start comparing prices on private market plans.
Applying for private health care insurance shouldn't affect your COBRA plan. And make sure you don't drop your COBRA coverage until you have a new plan in mind. Keep in mind, it could take you up to a month to start a new plan.
If you're just waiting to start a new job or you're going back to school, consider a short-term health insurance policy. These plans are generally less costly than a traditional plan -- Tony.
HARRIS: Are there any other federal programs out there aside from COBRA?
WILLIS: Yes. If you're really having a hard time, if you have kids, they may qualify for the Children's Health Insurance Program.
HARRIS: Oh, yes.
WILLIS: This program is set up to provide insurance to families who don't qualify for Medicaid but can't afford private insurance. Eligibility for SCHIP -- that's what it's called, Tony -- is at insurekidsnow.gov.
If you absolutely can't afford non-subsidized COBRA, check out the Foundation for Health Coverage Education at coverageforall.org. And they have a help line to help you. The toll-free number, 800-234- 1317.
And Tony, for the record here, Congress is thinking about extending the COBRA coverage, but it hasn't happened yet.
HARRIS: All right.
I got a twist for you here. What happens if you apply for private insurance, but find out later the subsidy will be extended?
WILLIS: The truth is, we don't know yet the language in what the legislation would be. Private coverage is paid every month, so you should be able to cancel it without penalties.
It may be that you're able to get back on the subsidized COBRA plan, but nobody really knows for sure. We'll of course, we'll bring you the latest as it happens.
And, of course, if you have any questions, send them to me at Gerri@CNN.com.
HARRIS: Oh, terrific.
Good to see you, Gerri. Thank you.
You know, banks and other financial institutions have gotten a lot of your tax money through the so-called TARP bailout. Should that program be extended? A look at what's happening on Capitol Hill.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS: All right. Once again I want to remind you, as we do every day at this time, if you want the latest financial news and analysis of what's going on, your money, cnnmoney.com is the place to go. Our team does a terrific job. You see many members of the team with us every day right here in the CNN NEWSROOM. But, once again, for the very latest financial news and analysis, CNNMoney.com.
Let's get you to the New York Stock Exchange now, the Big Board. Three hours into the trading day, been a down day. Selling all morning and into the early afternoon here. The Dow, as you can see, down 124 points. And the Nasdaq, at last check, was down 40. We will continue to check these numbers throughout the day for you with Susan Lisovicz right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
You know, it's been more than a year since the government authorized the $700 billion bailout of the financial system known as TARP. Will that program be extended? CNNMoney.com's Poppy Harlow is in New York.
Poppy, a lot to talk about here with TARP and its future.
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM CORRESPONDENT: Yes. A lot, Tony. I mean, most folks, I think, thought this $700 billion program just expired when the money was spent.
HARRIS: Yes.
HARLOW: That's not what happens. You've got about $300 billion left but TARP ends December 31st. Now it's most likely not going to end because Treasury Secretary Geithner can extend it. He has the authority to extend it for 10 more months.
That could be pretty unpopular politically. But on the other side, there are a lot of critics that argue, hey, we would have had a catastrophic collapse had we not had the TARP program. But, still, look at our economy, the real economy right now, still in dire straits. You've got unemployment over 10 percent and we just heard the Treasury secretary yesterday tell a group of small business leaders, hey, the credit crunch is not over yet.
Today he's facing a lot of pressure from lawmakers on Capitol Hill in a hearing going on right now, talking about financial reform. But you know what, Tony, most of those lawmakers, as we've been watching, are asking about TARP. And one of them even posed the question, why not just let TARP die? And here's how Geithner responded to that one.
HARRIS: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIMOTHY GEITHNER, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: We are working to put the tax -- the TARP out of its misery. And no one will be happier than I am . . .
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, according to . . . GEITHNER: To see that program terminated and unwound. And I want -- I want you to -- I want to point out that we are moving very aggressively to close down and terminate the programs that define TARP at the beginning of the crisis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: All right. Well, a lot of talk, Tony, right now about what do you do with the remaining TARP funds? About $300 billion. Do they go elsewhere? Do they go to job creation or aiding small businesses directly? It's a pretty fuzzy legal answer to that. No one knows if that can happen legally or not, but that's something you're going to want to keep an eye on. And also if TARP gets extended beyond this year -- Tony.
HARRIS: Or paying down the deficit. Just a thought. And the Treasury...
HARLOW: Great point.
HARRIS: Yes. The Treasury secretary, Poppy, isn't the only one talking TARP on Capitol Hill today.
HARLOW: No. Elizabeth Warren, she's a Harvard professor.
HARRIS: Yes.
HARLOW: She just wrapped up a hearing on The Hill. She heads that oversight committee on how Treasury spends the TARP money. They held a hearing on the effectiveness of TARP this morning with some leading economist. And one of her main criticisms, when I spoke with her this morning, was that simply TARP has not done enough to help Main Street.
Here's her take.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH WARREN, CHAIRMAN, CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT PANEL: We shoveled money into the large financial institutions. And instead of lending it, they held on to it. And we didn't put any restrictions on that back on the front end. The single biggest mistake was a year ago. If we had intended that money to go into the hands of smaller businesses and to be loan money, then we should have put some restrictions on it up front.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Indeed, hindsight, 20/20, Tony. Nothing they can do about that now. But the issue came up repeatedly, why were there not more restrictions on that spending of that money. Came up repeatedly during the hearing today. A lot of the top economists telling her panel that government did not go far enough in limiting executive comp and also making sure that the average Americans would benefit from the TARP program. So these hearings, that one just wrapped up. Geithner still going on. You can follow them here on cnnmoney.com. And also on Twitter you can follow us, twitter.com/cnnmoney -- Tony.
HARRIS: Terrific stuff. Thank you, Poppy.
HARLOW: Sure.
HARRIS: A secret kept by a platoon of soldiers until one finally came forward. Four Iraqi detainees murdered at a Baghdad canal by three U.S. Army sergeants. In an exclusive investigation tonight on "AC 360," the soldier talks about why he initially kept that secret. Special Investigations Unit correspondent Abbie Boudreau with a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT: Former Army Sergeant Jeff Cunningham was at the canal when the Iraqis were murdered, but he didn't reveal what happened until nine months later. I asked him why he waited so long to break his silence.
BOUDREAU (on camera): Why didn't you report it right away?
JESS CUNNINGHAM, FMR. U.S. ARMY SERGEANT: Fear.
BOUDREAU: Fear of what?
CUNNINGHAM: Retaliation. Fear of being alone. Fear of being the only one that had a problem with it. Fear of so many things could have happened to me.
I don't really care what other people think about me. I don't worry. I'm not going to lose any sleep. I did the right thing. I did the right thing that day.
BOUDREAU: Sergeant Cunningham talks about breaking the band of brotherhood tonight on "AC 360." We've also obtained 23.5 hours of Army interrogation tapes in which you'll hear one of the soldiers confess to the crime.
Our investigation, "KILLINGS AT THE CANAL: THE ARMY TAPES," is tonight on "AC 360."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: A ruling in Louisiana finds the Army Corps of Engineers liable for some of the damage suffered during Hurricane Katrina. I'll ask one of those who brought the case for her story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Do we have live pictures? Roger, we have live pictures?
What a nice day for a walk in the clouds. Actually, this is way above -- excuse me. OK. All right. Actually this is way above the clouds. Hey, Chad, take a look at this. Got a spacewalk going on here. We've got astronauts hooking up an antenna and cables to the International Space Station. Pretty cool stuff, sir.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: About a six-hour spacewalk if it all goes well, putting up a new antenna so that they can do a little bit better communications. Also work inside the space station as well. This is all part of the parts, you know, that junkyard that they brought up with them.
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
MYERS: Can you see NASA's junkyard?
HARRIS: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
MYERS: Yes, billion dollar parts laying around in the sunshine out in Arizona somewhere. But they've got a great view of the morning.
HARRIS: Look at that.
MYERS: I tell you, the view just all the way down is just amazing. We're going to do top stories with you, Tony, right now.
HARRIS: All right. Awesome. Thank you, Chad.
MYERS: OK.
HARRIS: Let's get you caught up. Senate Democrats unveiled their sweeping health care reform bill. The plan -- the plan would cover another 30 million people at an estimated cost of $848 billion over 10 years. Republicans vow to do what they can to block the bill.
Could the Fort Hood, Texas, shooting rampage have been prevented? A key Senate committee is holding hearings today. Homeland Security Committee Chairman Joe Lieberman calls the shooting, quoting here, "the most destructive terrorist attack on America since 9/11."
A federal judge in New Orleans says, blame it on the Corps of Engineers. A $720,000 award has been ordered for plaintiffs in a lawsuit filed over flooding damage from Hurricane Katrina. A plaintiffs' news conference on the decision has been going on this hour in New Orleans.
Now let's get you back to Chad. We can talk a little bit more about the shuttle, or we can talk about weather across the country -- Chad.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HARRIS: You know, it is Thursday, and you know what it means, a new set of questions on the CNN Challenge. All you have to do is go to cnnchallenge.com and start playing. You ready now for this first question? Here we go, ready or not. Which -- which state did President Obama say is the 50th one he has visited? Was it Alaska, Idaho, Maine, or Wyoming? We will be right back with the answer. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: So every Thursday CNN Challenge comes out with its new questions for the week. Just before the break we showed you one of them. Here it is one more time. Which state did President Obama say is the 50th one he has visited? Was it Alaska, Idaho, Maine, or Wyoming? Ready for the answer? Craig?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wyoming.
HARRIS: Wyoming? It's Alaska. Good try, though, man. You're playing the game. You can't win unless you play. I don't know what you win, though. Run, don't walk, to your computer now if you'd like to play. Go to cnnchallenge.com and take this week's full quiz.
Attorney General Eric Holder is defending the decision to try five 9/11 suspects in civilian court. Listen to this exchange on Capitol Hill yesterday regarding the planned trial of accused mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JON KYL (R-AZ), MINORITY WHIP: How could you be more likely to get a conviction in federal court when Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has already asked to plead guilty before a military commission and be executed? How could you be more likely to get a conviction in an article three court than that?
ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, Senator, your . . .
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) order. These hearings, as I always do, whether people are supportive or opposed to any position I take, that we must have -- we must have order. We'll have order. The police will remove those who don't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman . . .
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE), go ahead.
KYL: Let me say that your request for order is exactly appropriate and I -- I concur with that.
Could you answer my question, Mr. Attorney General.
HOLDER: The determination that I make on where I think we can best try these cases does not depend on the whims or the desires of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. He said he wanted to do that then. I have no idea what he wants to do now with regard to these military commissions that, as a result of the work that this committee did and this Congress did, now has enhanced protections and I think are better than they once were before. He may still want to do that in a military commission. I have no idea. My job is to look at the possibilities. Article three, military commission, where is my best chance of success on (INAUDIBLE) . . .
KYL: If I could interrupt you. It would seem to me that given the fact that . . .
HOLDER: And I finally decided that article three courts were the best place to do that.
KYL: Right. I know that's what . . .
HOLDER: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is not making this decision. The attorney general of the . . .
KYL: Of course, he's not. Mr. Attorney General, you based this on where you think you're more likely to get a conviction. You talked about the best chance to prosecute. The chances of success are enhanced and so on. One of the factors has to be the fact that he has at least at some time asked to plead guilty. I mean you had to have take that into account.
HOLDER: That was then. I don't know what Khalid Sheikh Mohammed wants to do now and I'm not going to base a determination on where these cases ought to be brought on what a terrorist, what a murder, wants to do. He will not select the prosecution venue. I will select it. And I have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Man!
While some people are angered over the civilian trial of the suspected terrorists, history shows it's happened before, and recently, too. Here's CNN's homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There has never been a terror attack in the U.S. with the scale and horror of 9/11. And there has never been a trial of an al Qaeda member as important as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
But terror trials in civilian courts are nothing new. The people responsible for the first World Trade Center bombing and the bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the so-called blind sheikh, who wanted to blow up New York landmarks, shoe bomber Richard Reid, who attempted to bring down a transatlantic airliner, and 9/11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui have all been tried and convicted in federal courts. Some of them in New York.
HOLDER: I'm quite confident that we can safely hold people there, that we can protect the people who surround the courthouse area, and bring these cases successfully.
MESERVE: The 9/11 case will differ from others in one important respect, Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times, and that will complicate the prosecution.
DAVID KELLEY, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Applications will be made by the defendants, for example, not to use any sort of statements or evidence that were the product of any sort of coercion or misconduct.
MESERVE: A defense attorney in the Moussaoui case predicts there will be, as in his case, serious issues of language and culture to overcome and mountains of evidence to explore.
GERALD ZERKIN, MOUSSAOUI DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There were 180,000 FBI interviews. There were hundreds of videos that we had. And there were thousands of CDs. And there were a couple of thousand images on every CD.
MESERVE: Classified evidence has played a part in all the terror cases. But only lawyers, not defendants, have access to it. And it's discussed only behind closed doors. The blind sheikh and Moussaoui both used the courtroom as a platform to espouse their jihadi beliefs. No one would be surprised if Khalid Sheikh Mohammed does the same thing.
MESERVE (on camera): Defense attorneys and prosecutors say this trial is likely to be similar to other terror cases in another respect, because of its complexities, it will take years to get under way and try.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Intelligence officials say a suspected U.S. drone strike has killed four people in Pakistan. The attack in the north Waziristan tribal region targeted a house said to be used by Taliban militants. Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr tells us the Pentagon's reliance on drone warfare is increasing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pakistan, August, 2009, an unmanned aircraft takes off from a secret base inside Pakistan. The Central Intelligence Agency has a tip where the Taliban leader, Baitullah Mehsud, is hiding. The CIA drone flies in, piloted by personnel miles away in front of a computer screen. Its missiles fire. Mehsud is killed.
It's called push-button war. Targeted killing by remotely controlled planes. The growing reliance by the Obama administration on these drones to kill inside Pakistan, a U.S. ally, is increasingly controversial. Philip Alston, the United Nations special investigator, questions if this is legal warfare or targeted assassination.
PHILIP ALSTON, U.N. SPECIAL INVESTIGATOR: Under what program, under what authorization, under what set of laws is the CIA actually operating? This is the CIA. This is not the Department of Defense. Normally wars are fought by a defense department, not by an intelligence agency.
STARR: In 1976, President Gerald Ford banned political assassination. Since 9/11, the Bush White House, and now President Obama, have insisted the drone campaign in Pakistan is part of the war against the Taliban and al Qaeda, not the Pakistani people. Since Obama took office, the number of attacks has jumped. Forty-five this year so far, compared to 34 for all of 2008, according to a study by CNN contributor Peter Bergen. But hundreds of civilians may also have been killed.
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Over the life of the program, we calculated that up to 1,000 people have been killed. And we calculated that up to a third were civilians.
STARR: CIA Director Leon Panetta tersely defended the once secret program earlier this year.
LEON PANETTA, CIA DIRECTOR: Very frankly, it's the only game in town in terms of confronting and trying to disrupt the al Qaeda leadership.
STARR: But Alston says, if the U.S. wants to claim the attacks are vital, there must be changes.
ALSTON: The fears of the international community that the U.S. is operating, perhaps a targeted assassination program that's not contained by the appropriate rules, will simply be increased.
STARR (on camera): If President Obama's decision includes more strikes inside Pakistan, experts say, pressure will mount for more controls on the program.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: As you know, food banks have become a lifeline for many people scraping to get by. Many families really struggling in these difficult times. Our Ted Rowlands has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's two-year-old Nicole Flores' (ph) birthday. Her mother, Diana, says there isn't enough money for a cake.
DIANA FLORES, MOTHER: I'm not working. I don't have money with me. And I wanted to make her something, you know? That's what I wanted to make her. I wanted to give her a little cake or -- or all those stuff, but, like, there's no money here or nothing, so I really don't have nothing to offer her, you know? Just say "happy birthday." That's about it.
ROWLANDS: Diana Flores and her boyfriend, Pedro (ph), are struggling to take care of Nicole and her five-month-old brother Anthony. Pedro is a construction worker, but hasn't had a job for three months. Diana says she worries about feeding her children. FLORES: Sometimes there's no food. Sometimes we just eat in the morning and we don't have food for the afternoon. So that's why we try to take care of the food, like not eat less, just, like, whatever, so we, like, try to just take care of it and eat what we have to eat so we can have it tomorrow or the next day.
ROWLANDS: For the past three months, Diana says they've been coming to this Los Angeles-area food bank called MEND, which stands for Meet Each Need with Dignity. Shelter organizers say they've seen a 50 percent increase in clients over the past year.
MARIANNE HAVER HILL, PRESIDENT AND CEO, MEND: Often they're working, you know, part time at McDonald's and part time doing babysitting and part time doing house cleaning or, you know, working at a car wash. If it rains, they don't work. Again, part time labor, construction. If they're, you know, if they're working or maybe they're not.
ROWLANDS: It's Jaquetta Cooper's first time at the food bank. She's an unemployed medical assistant with a seven-year-old daughter.
JAQUETTA COOPER, MOTHER: I put in resumes and, you know, I keep calling and, you know, I'm like, well, checking my voice mail, like have they called me yet or, you know, things like that. I'm always checking up on it. But right now it's like really nothing out there.
ROWLANDS: Jaquetta says she and her husband, who's also looking for work, are staying with a relative rent free for now.
ROWLANDS (on camera): Are you worried about the future?
COOPER: Yes, I am. I'm very worried. Especially for my daughter.
ROWLANDS (voice-over): Diana says she, too, worries about her daughter and son. Her plan is to get a job and go to school. She hopes she can throw a birthday party for Nicole when she turns three.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Flashback, if you will, to the summer and the raucous protests against the president's health care reform plan. Remember these images and the debate over how much racism played a role in criticism of the president. It is a topic that is still unresolved for many Americans and it's the subject of my series "Class in Session" this week. The conversation took a turn into a discussion of the Republican Party. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They used race way back when to build their party. And they did it in a discriminatory way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I look at the Republican Party and I don't see that they've excluded at all minorities.
HARRIS: You see the Republican Party as a big-tent party?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I mean now -- now . . .
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The difference is we don't point out their race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
