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Joy Behar Page
Thrill Killing?; Sex Trafficking Nightmare; Food Fights
Aired November 19, 2009 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, she can`t stop bullets with her bare hands or leap tall buildings in a single bound, but she is one of America`s best and most famous crime fighters. HLN`s own Nancy Grace will be here.
Then it`s a food fight. Martha Stewart stirs up a pot of trouble when she takes on America`s kitchen sweetheart, Rachael Ray.
Plus, George Lopez is here, he`s part of the changing face of late night talk. He`ll be here to chat about that and whatever else he wants to. He`s funny.
All that starts right now.
We`re starting tonight with a horrific story out of Missouri. A 15- year-old girl confessed to murdering a 9-year-old girl just to feel what it was like to kill someone. Now she`s being charged as an adult and could face life in prison.
Is a 15-year-old girl or boy an adult? Where do you draw the line between punishment and rehabilitation? Joining me to discuss this is HLN`s Nancy Grace, author of the best-selling book "The Eleventh Victim." Hi Nancy.
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Hi, Joy.
BEHAR: Welcome to my show. How did Alyssa know the little girl who was killed?
GRACE: Ok, number one, I did not realize that you and the accused killer were on a first name basis.
But that aside, Alyssa Bustamante knew the victim in this case, a 9-year-old little girl, Elizabeth Olten, because Olten is her little sister`s playmate. They had a play date that day.
BEHAR: I see. I see, so I`ll call her by her full name. Alyssa Bustamante. And the cops say that she dug two graves days before the murder. Was she planning to kill two people?
GRACE: You know Joy, I`ve been wondering that. I`ve been shuddering to think who that second grave was for. But the significance, Joy, of her digging two graves ahead of time goes to the state`s ability to prove premeditation in this case.
What they`re going to try to show is this was not an act that occurred at the spur of the moment, which would be a lesser offense, but something that Bustamante had planned for some time. And it`s my understanding, Joy, from my reading of the facts, that this little girl, a 9-year-old girl, had gone over to Bustamante`s home that day for a play date with little sister.
Apparently Bustamante lured her into the woods and killed her there, according to police. Because Bustamante is very thin and there`s no way she could have dragged a 9-year-old child`s body across the street and into the woods without being apprehended.
BEHAR: What is the matter with this girl? Is she mentally ill? Is she going to plead insanity or what?
GRACE: Well, Joy, I can go ahead and read the tea leaves. She will be pleading insanity.
Now, you asked me the question, were there warnings? Could you see a red flag? The answer is yes. This child, the 15-year-old, had gone on MySpace, YouTube and on one of these had posted a profile where she says her favorite activities are killing and cutting. Then she goes on, Joy, to post a video of her electrocuting herself and her two little brothers on an electric fence.
BEHAR: Right.
GRACE: Now, Joy.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRACE: Come on, what does she have to do to take out an ad on Third Avenue and say I`m planning to kill?
BEHAR: I know, it`s sad. The whole story, I mean, she`s going to be tried as an adult. Do you think there are risks to that -- there are certain risks to that, no?
GRACE: Well, I assume you`re talking about risks to the state.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRACE: The risk to the state...
BEHAR: I am.
GRACE: ... would be that a jury would feel sorry for her. I mean, yes, I believe the police, I believe she`s most likely responsible for a cold-blooded murder. But she is a 15-year-old girl.
BEHAR: Well, she`s trying to commit suicide, this girl...
GRACE: Yes she did.
BEHAR: ... when she was 13 years old.
GRACE: And she`s been in counseling ever since, Joy. So I`ve seen an insanity defense. I think a jury will feel sorry for her, but overall I believe they will convict because it was so thought out and the heinous nature of the crime. There`s really nothing else they can do but convict.
BEHAR: Well, I think that we have to look a little bit at her own story, even though I know that she`s going to go to prison or they`re going to do something terrible to this girl of course. But do you think she was abused as a child, herself? I mean, I hate the abuse excuse, but she`s only 15.
GRACE: You know, Joy, that was one of my first questions when I found out that this child, this 15-year-old juvenile...
BEHAR: Yes.
GRACE: ... had been in treatment so long, that she had tried to commit suicide at an early age of 13. It screams out to me that at some point she has been molested. I don`t know the answer to that yet. But believe me, we`ll know at the time in trial. Because if she has been, the defense will parade it front and center in their defense, as they should.
BEHAR: Yes. I mean, to be violent at such a young age, something had to happen to her. This doesn`t just come out of nowhere. It`s sad to say.
GRACE: No it doesn`t and you either get it from somewhere inside of you like you`re suggesting or your environment. And her grandparents who were raising her had apparently been very, very good guardians.
But Joy, I know that you were wondering about her suicide attempt. You were wondering what would happen to her.
If she`s treated as a juvenile, then she will get out at age 21. That`s in less than six years. If she`s treated as an adult, which she most likely will be, there`s a chance she still may be released at age 21. And as far as the rehab goes? Do I think she can be rehabbed? No because this was not an impulse act. This is part of her psyche. She has been interested in killing and cutting not only herself but other people...
BEHAR: Yes.
GRACE: ... for a very long time. This is part of her makeup. This is who she is. Her behavior may be able to be controlled one day, but you cannot change who you are.
BEHAR: Definitely. Ok.
Let`s turn to another gruesome story. We don`t have too much time, but 5-year-old Shaniya Davis was allegedly sold into prostitution by her mother and later killed. The latest theory is that the mother sold her daughter because she owed drug money. Is that correct?
GRACE: Joy, this is what I know. I know the mother used drugs, I know the mother allowed her home to be a place where drugs were sold. I know that McNeill, the man pictured with the child is a doper. I know that she owed him money. I could put two and two together, I get four. Yes, it was a drug debt according to our sources.
The child`s life was worth nothing more than a drug debt to the mother, Antoinette Davis. And if that`s true, she will be in front of a jury facing the same penalty as the person who killed the little girl.
As you know, formal charges just coming down and I expect the wrath of a jury will be felt by Antoinette Davis.
BEHAR: So even though she didn`t literally kill the child, even though she just gave it to someone else...
GRACE: Whoa, hold on. You know, Joy, I like you a lot, I really do.
I`ve liked you for a long time, but when you say all she did was hand over the child...
BEHAR: No, no, that`s not what I said. Calm down, Nancy, all I said was...
GRACE: All she did was hand over a 5-year-old little girl to a doper. A dope dealer who in the past had shot...
BEHAR: Listen, I`m just as outraged as you are. I`m just as outraged as you are. I`m just saying will she be penalized in the same way as if she killed the child? That was my question.
GRACE: I can only pray.
BEHAR: Ok.
Now, what do you think about child trafficking? That seems to be the issue here. She was selling the child into trafficking. And I understand that this is a big problem in this country as well as all over the world.
GRACE: You know, that`s shocking, but you`re absolutely correct, Joy. We think of child prostitution and child sex rings as something that happens far away in places we`ve never been like Thailand or Far East. That is so not true.
I remember as a prosecutor busting a child prostitution ring. And when I found, I had to go looking for the child victim, the particular one I was looking for was a 12-year-old girl, Joy, when I found her I was in the room with her. I thought she was 31 years old. She was 12.
BEHAR: Wow.
GRACE: She had on like -- the pretty woman boots that zip up all the way to your hips. She had on a big weave, makeup, nails. I said, that`s her? I couldn`t believe it. But then when you got all that off of her she looked like a 12-year-old girl over in Catholic school. It was shocking to me, but child prostitution is huge within this country, Joy.
BEHAR: I know.
GRACE: I was shocked.
BEHAR: It`s a big problem here, too, I understand. Don`t go away, Nancy. We`re going to be talking to you again a little later in the show.
And remember, you can catch Nancy Grace right here on HLN immediately following this show.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN, AUTHOR, "GOING ROGUE: AN AMERICAN LIFE": 95 percent, though, of the campaign was absolutely amazing, awesome, invigorating, energizing. The people whom we met all along the trail were absolutely inspiring, and unfortunately, you know, not enough pages available in a book to get to describe all of that, but about the 5 percent of the conflict is in the book.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is in the book.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That`s Sarah Palin, remember her? In the friendly environment of Fox News where everything is wonderful, still making the media rounds for "Going Rogue." I guess the sequel "Going Roguer" will tell the story about the great parts of the campaign.
Joining me to discuss Palin`s latest comments are: the fabulously adorable conservative columnist, S.E. Cupp, she`s the co-author of "Why You`re Wrong about the Right"; comedian Vic Henley; and comedian --- I don`t want to be sexist here -- she`s a comedian, Kate Clinton, the author of "I Told You So."
OK.
So first of all, S.E., I must tell you that she thanks you in here book. It says, "Thanks to S.E. I don`t know anybody else named S.E.
S.E. CUPP CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: I know, it`s me. My parents are really proud.
BEHAR: Are they proud? Are they conservatives like you?
CUPP: Yes. They are conservatives so they are proud. I was flattered as well.
BEHAR: And you never rebelled against it. That`s unusual.
CUPP: I didn`t. No. I wasn`t raised political. I came at it later so there was no rebellion.
BEHAR: But they were conservatives. Most kids like you would turn to drugs.
CUPP: Sure, well -- that is later.
BEHAR: You know?
CUPP: Yes.
BEHAR: Addiction.
Before we -- let`s look at another thing. Palin talked to right- wing fan Sean Hannity for one hour. He got her to answer a question she`s long been dodging.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I know you`ve talked a lot in every interview about the Couric interview. I`m not going to ask you the same question. How would you answer those questions differently? The two that got the most play in the media?
PALIN: That I screwed up on and I was annoyed and my bad. I did a horrible job with that and let my annoyance just show so brightly. It was very unprofessional of me. I shouldn`t have done that.
She asked about what I read. I read "News Max" and the "Frontiersman" and "The Wall Street Journal." And everything online; I absorb the news via many, many sources.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: She forgot "The Cat in the Hat."
VIC HENLEY, COMEDIAN: "The Little Engine that Could". "The Pokey Puppy."
BEHAR: I mean, it took her a year. What took her so long to answer the question? Did she not understand the question?
HENLEY: I think that I don`t even know if she`s real. I think she`s a reindeer, that they shaved her antlers off and taught her how to speak.
BEHAR: She`s not real?
HENLEY: I don`t think she`s a person. No. I don`t think you could...
BEHAR: She`s a person. She`s a real American.
HENLEY: Really? I don`t want to be real American if that`s a real American.
BEHAR: What do you think Kate?
KATE CLINTON: I think that maybe she was wrapping fish in some of the papers, and just forgot, you know, that that`s where it was or maybe she reads everything online. I don`t know. I love how they act like it was a trick question from Katie Couric.
BEHAR: I know.
CLINTON: What do you read?
BEHAR: Isn`t she playing the victim constantly? I mean, she`s always blaming everybody for her problems.
CUP: I don`t know. First of all, I don`t think she`s got too many problems right now. She`s a bestseller. It was a bestseller before it even hit the shelves. She`s going to be a multimillionaire. She`s doing just fine.
I think she said it best though in the Oprah interview. Katie Couric looked at her like she was from his nomadic tribe from Alaska and asking her what she read was like asking her if she read. I think that sort of (INAUDIBLE) is what she was talking about. I don`t think she`s being a victim.
BEHAR: I don`t think that`s true. I think that kind of an interview they would ask President Obama if he was there. What do you read? What do you read?
People ask me that question all the time.
CUPP: I don`t know. I don`t know. President Obama wrote an autobiography when he was a state legislator. He listed out all of the things that he`s read and all of his mentors and all of his influences from academia. I think they wouldn`t ask him that because it`s very clear that he`s a cultured...
BEHAR: But it`s a legitimate question.
HENLEY: No, I mean, everybody -- Bill Clinton used to love to read mystery novels and he talked about...
BEHAR: And sex novels, too. He was a reader.
CLINTON: They were written by Lynn Cheney.
BEHAR: You know, she said that the campaign aide -- this is another interesting thing -- Nicolle Wallace, she said that she made her do the interview with Katie Couric because Katie Couric has low self-esteem. Did you read that?
CUPP: Yes.
HENLEY: Wow, it was like a pity interview.
BEHAR: Like a pity interview.
CLINTON: Yes. Help her out.
BEHAR: Katie Couric, didn`t she do her colonoscopy on television? Don`t you think you need high self-esteem for that?
CLINTON: I feel bad for the mailmen that month. What do they do with the envelopes you`re supposed to send in?
BEHAR: What are you talking about?
CLINTON: For the stool samples.
BEHAR: Oh, the stool samples.
HENLEY: My people only told me to come here today because you had really low self-esteem.
BEHAR: There`s another example of some crazy talk. Of course, Nicolle Wallace says the opposite. When she -- Levi Johnston, her pseudo son-in-law -- he says one thing about her, she disagrees. Then there`s this guy, Steve Schmidt. It`s like, what do these people need? A lie detector test? It`s always he said/she said.
CUPP: Sure, that`s politics. You know that`s politics. In any, you know, losing campaign, fingers get pointed and people get blamed. Heads roll.
You know, this was her sort of chance to defend herself against all of these accusations and allegations that have been swimming around for a year. She put it in a book. She did it. End of story.
BEHAR: OK. When asked about her future, Palin had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: You`re going to hear a lot from me, so, you know, the haters are going to have a whole lot of material. Tina Fey, she may have a whole lot of material coming up, but our message is strong. Our message is truth, and our message, my message, I think, is a voice for that common sense everyday hard-working American who expects not much out of their government except for it to be on their side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: She refers to the haters. It`s an interesting way to deal with the world to say "the haters." It`s so infantile.
HENLEY: It`s comedy. I love her. I want her to talk all she can because we`re comedians. It`s great material.
BEHAR: I know. That`s true.
As a matter of fact, I happen to know that Freud -- Sigmund Freud -- he says that hate -- this is his definition. Hate is an ego state that wishes to destroy the source of its unhappiness. So we don`t hate her. She is the source of our happiness.
CUPP: How interesting.
CLINTON: I always knew it. That`s amazing.
BEHAR: Isn`t it, that description of it...
HENLEY: She made me very happy. I loved it.
BEHAR: She makes us happy. So we don`t hate her.
CLINTON: No. I love that she`s gotten a lot of people activated that never, ever would have been out and involved in politics at all. You know, people come out -- I think it`s great. I think it`s...
BEHAR: It`s like the opposite of Obama. He dragged them out also.
CLINTON: Yes.
BEHAR: For different reasons.
HENLEY: Two different groups.
CLINTON: They`re out there. I don`t care. I just want them out there, and, you know, talking about what they believe in, why they like her. I certainly have gotten a lot of comedy gifts from her, but I take them very seriously.
BEHAR: What she says, Americans who expect not much out of our government except for it to be on their side. She`s in the United States. She`s not in the Soviet Union. The government is on her side in this country. Why does she say things like that?
CUPP: I think she`s speaking to an ethos that exists right now where people are a little nervous about where the country is going. It`s leaning left. It`s been right for eight years.
BEHAR: It seems like it`s tilting back to the right a little bit.
CUPP: Well, at least to the center, for sure.
BEHAR: That`s all right.
CUPP: I don`t think there`s anything more juvenile about her calling out her haters than there is about Obama attacking Fox News.
BEHAR: That was a mistake. I agree with you on that.
CUPP: Political mistake. It looked unpresidential. I mean, you call out the people that are calling you out. Eventually you have to defend yourself.
BEHAR: She wants to run for president, it`s possible. If she does. She doesn`t say it.
CUPP: I think she will.
BEHAR: She doesn`t say it.
Which party is she going to run in? She`s thrown everybody under the bus. She`s thrown the Republicans under the bus. The Democrats she`s thrown them under and then backed up again.
CUPP: She just backed up this conservative party candidate in New York 23 which didn`t work out. You know, that`s a valid point. You know, where is she going to go? She could go independent. I think she really loves the GOP but she realizes that there are some problems in it right now.
HENLEY: If she won, would she quit? Who`s to say she would...
BEHAR: That`s true.
HENLEY: She quit. She didn`t even serve her term. I can`t even believe she would vacate her seat...
BEHAR: Republicans have that issue with her, that she`s going to be perceived as a quitter.
HENLEY: That`s true.
CLINTON: Right, I mean, she just -- how long was she there? Like 14 month, 18 months in Alaska?
BEHAR: OK. Stick with me. We`re going to get the real political intrigue next; Martha Stewart versus Rachael Ray. I love this. Stick around. This is fun.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The fabulous Martha Stewart took off her oven mitts in an interview with ABC`s "Nightline" when asked about fellow cook Rachael Ray.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CYNTHIA MCFADDEN, ABC HOST: Just came back from the "Rachael Ray Show". She drops things on the floor and throws them in the batter. I mean that just is not...
MARTHA STEWART, CEO, MARTHA STEWART LIVING OMNIMEDIA: To me she professed that she cannot bake. She just did a new cookbook which is just a re-edit of a lot of her old recipes. That`s not good enough for me.
I really want to write a book that`s a unique and lasting thing, something that will really fulfill a need in someone`s library. So she`s different. She`s more of an entertainer than she is with a bubbly personality than she is a teacher like me.
That`s what she was professing to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: We have Cynthia McFadden coming on the show next week so we`re going it ask her. Them`s fighting words.
I`m back with my panel to discuss this culinary throwdown. Besides publicity ratings and cash, what does Martha have to gain from that type of comment?
HENLEY: You know, she`s just bubbling with joy. You can tell she`s so enthusiastic about her life.
BEHAR: But Rachael -- go ahead.
CLINTON: Rachael agreed.
CUPP: Martha Stewart was like a cartoon of herself right there. She is the queen of smug condescension sense. I feel like she looks at Rachael Ray like she`s the Sarah Palin of the how-to world. Like unrefined, unlearned. Martha Stewart even calls herself a teacher.
Meanwhile, Rachael Ray has got this massive empire. The elite class of the Martha Stewarts will never understand the appeal of the every man.
BEHAR: Well, do you think -- Rachael said her skill set is far beyond mine, Rachael said. That`s simply the reality of it. That`s very sweet. That doesn`t mean what I do isn`t important, too. I don`t consider it middling. I really just think she`s being honest.
Then she adds, I`d rather eat at Martha`s than mine. I`d rather eat Martha`s than mine.
HENLEY: Food, food.
BEHAR: A little confusing.
CLINTON: What kind of show is this?
BEHAR: Is she being polite or is she afraid of getting shived?
HENLEY: It might be that. You don`t want to get a hot glue gun in the back.
CLINTON: I thought she was so gracious to just like cut -- that was the end of the thing.
BEHAR: Rachael Ray is a darling girl.
CLINTON: She was wonderful.
BEHAR: She`s a very generous girl. She gives a lot to charity and takes care of kids, with their lunches and all of the (INAUDIBLE).
CUPP: When you have buckets of money like she does.
BEHAR: She doesn`t have to do all the good things that she`s doing. Martha -- Martha`s fine. She did a little time, but so what.
HENLEY: My idiot relatives down south get encouraged by Martha and I don`t like that. I get crappy gifts because of that. I get a pine cone with glitter on it because they say, I`m a crafter. No, you`re not. You`re cheap.
(CROSSTALK)
HENLEY: Yes, just ridiculous.
BEHAR: One quick thing. How much time? Do I have a little time? I have a little time.
Karl Rove is coming out with a book. It`s coming in March. Are people going to remember who he is by then? Will there be book signings in prison for him? What do you think about that?
CLINTON: "Going Rove." I like it.
BEHAR: I like that.
HENLEY: "Going Rover."
CLINTON: I mean --
HENLEY: What`s it called? "Courage and Ambition" or "Courage and Consequence".
BEHAR: It`s called "Courage and Consequence"? Yes.
HENLEY: Because "Ignorance and Fallout" was already taken by somebody else.
CLINTON: So was "Leviticus".
BEHAR: What do you think, S.E.? Are you going to buy the book.
CUPP: I think it`s going to be great.
BEHAR: It will be great.
CLINTON: I`m there. I`ll be first in line.
BEHAR: Thank you very much, everybody.
Up next, Nancy Grace joins me once more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: She is one of the most recognizable names on TV. She`s a victim`s right advocate. She`s a best-selling author, and she`s back with me. HLN`s own Nancy Grace, author of the best-selling novel "The Eleventh Victim."
So, Nancy, we`ve talked enough about these crime stories, although I don`t really know how you sleep. Don`t these stories just go in your head round and round?
NANCY GRACE, CNN HN HOST: Well, Joy, sometimes I don`t know how I sleep either. They keep me awake through the night.
And I`ve got the nanny cams out the yin-yang for the few hours I`m away from the twins. I run rap sheets -- I ran my own rap sheet the other day just to make sure I didn`t have a record -- of everybody who comes in touch with the twins.
And at a certain point, I guess you just have to believe in the goodness of people and you just have to trust in god, because, you know, Joy, I got pregnant when I was 47. I gave birth when I was 48. And the three of us nearly died during that.
BEHAR: I know that story from your visit to me on "The View."
GRACE: I`m so blessed.
BEHAR: How are the twins doing?
GRACE: Oh, Joy, they just turned two last week. We had a big shindig with both sets of the family. They all converged. We had a big time. And Lucy got plastic bracelets. John David got plastic watches. These are some of my favorite photos that I took of them.
And, Joy, they`re the loves of my life.
BEHAR: I know. They`re so adorable. Look at them. How cute. You could just eat them up.
GRACE: I know, I know. I want to eat them up all the time, but then they`d be gone.
BEHAR: They look like little nuns in that picture.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: In that picture I actually had to put little baby blankets, receiving blankets around their heads because their necks weren`t strong enough to hold up.
There`s John David lounging in mommy`s bed.
BEHAR: Watching TV.
GRACE: And there`s Lucy in a laundry basket.
BEHAR: Oh, really? That`s cute.
GRACE: And now I put her in the laundry basket, she sits up and I pull her around like I`m a horse. She loves it.
BEHAR: All right, let`s talk about your book for a minute. You wrote "The Eleventh Victim." I`m told that there are parallels in this book to your life. It is a crime book.
GRACE: Yes.
BEHAR: Tell me.
GRACE: Number one, I`d much rather talk about crime and analyze cases than talk about myself. But the book, "Eleventh Victim," what`s funny, Joy, when I first left the courtroom, I missed it so much. I was up in New York. I just moved there to start a show at then Court TV with Johnny Cochran, god rest his soul.
And I started writing about the courtroom. When I`d get home from work at night, I was all alone, and that`s when I actually started writing the book. That was a long time ago. And so many things happened in the interim that finally I finished the book.
BEHAR: That`s great. I was reading you came to New York with nothing but a curling iron, two boxes of clothes, and $200. Life`s gotten a little more complicated since then, hasn`t it?
GRACE: It`s gotten a lot more blessed. I have three curling irons to my name, none of which I can find right now because John David found them under the counter and ran off with them. I haven`t seen them since. I haven`t seen them in a long time, Joy.
But life has gotten a lot more blessed. I thought I was so happy then. I had no idea what happy was.
BEHAR: You know, you and I are both taken apart on "Saturday Night Live." Fred Armisen does me and Amy Poehler did an impression of you on "Saturday Night Live." I want to look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I know you keep playing it over and over in your mind, and I need to remind you that you are a victim and you need to stop feeling so ashamed.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not a victim and I`m not ashamed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That means you`re healing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: How did she do? What do you think of that?
GRACE: Oh, well, I love Amy Poehler. I remember the first time I heard the parody. I was almost asleep. I`m embarrassed. I was so tired. And I thought the TiVo had started playing my own show back. And I thought, "Why did I tape my own show? I`ve already lived through it. Why do I want to watch it again?"
And I jerked up to see what was happening and went, that`s not me, it`s "Saturday Night Live." That`s the first time I ever saw that. People ask does it make me mad? No, I think it`s hilarious.
BEHAR: I think you`re overworked, possibly.
"Boston Legal" also did a character based on you, and the character got hit over the head with a shovel.
GRACE: I heard that. I heard that, but happily they let me live. So they didn`t kill me off. Maybe I will make a return.
BEHAR: They let you live.
Now, let me just see what else you`re doing with your life. You have kids, you have a hit show, you have a novel. What else are you going to do next?
GRACE: Well, I`d like to have more children, but I think I`m kind of too old for that. You know what? All I want to do now is fight crime in the best way that I can --
BEHAR: Yes. You`re not going to have --
GRACE: And be a mom.
BEHAR: And be a mom to these. You don`t are want to have anymore at your age, do you?
GRACE: I still dream of it, I do. And I`m still able. But we almost died the first time, so I couldn`t bear to leave these two to be raised without a mommy.
BEHAR: It`s great to have given birth to twins at your age.
GRACE: I remember when I found out -- oh, look at them. Look at them. That is on their birthday, their birthday morning. I had stayed up the night before after I got home from work and made cookies. And those are the cookies for them. There they are with their crowns on the day of their birthday.
BEHAR: Nancy Grace makes cookies. That`s so cute.
GRACE: I did.
BEHAR: Nancy, tell me about the TV project you have going on.
GRACE: The TV project? Oh, yes. Well, we may be trying to launch a conflict resolution show called "Swift Justice." And I`m waiting to see if that`s going to happen. It`s centered around crime and justice. I`m very, very excited about it. so fingers crossed.
BEHAR: You always want to have another show to keep yourself going --
GRACE: Yes, I don`t really have enough to do. Got to stay busy.
BEHAR: How much does your husband do to take care of the kids?
GRACE: Well, here`s the problem with him. He travels, Joy. He`s an investment banker, so he travels. So I stay with the twins up until the last second I can. And he usually gets home sometimes after that.
But he`s a very hands-on father, very hands-on. In fact, when we first brought the twins home, he could change a diaper better than me.
BEHAR: A lot of people would have two nannies if they had twins. Do you have one nanny or two nannies?
GRACE: Typically I have them myself without anybody. But toward the end of the day when I have to go to work, then I have two people come in.
BEHAR: Good.
GRACE: Two people come in, because, look, let me tell you something, Joy, especially now that they`re mobile, one runs that way and one runs the other way. So I have a man and woman that keep them --
BEHAR: That`s great. It`s so nice to talk to you. Keep up the good work, Nancy.
GRACE: Thank you, Joy.
BEHAR: Everybody loves your show. The book is called "The Eleventh Victim." And don`t forget, Nancy Grace is coming up immediately following my show right here on HLN.
Next, the latest edition to the late night lineup, the funny George Lopez.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: He`s gone from the San Fernando Valley to having a star on the Hollywood walk of fame. And now he`s coming into all of our bedrooms late at night with his talk show, "Lopez Tonight." He`s funny, outspoken, and pulls no punches. Joining me from L.A. is the fabulously talented George Lopez. Hi, George.
GEORGE LOPEZ, HOST "LOPEZ TONIGHT": How are you, Joy?
BEHAR: I`m good. Before we talk about your show, which I love, and by the way, you`re younger than Letterman and Leno. Just saying that. That`s all.
LOPEZ: Combined?
BEHAR: Combined. I know that you are a big fan of Sarah Palin. Let`s watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOPEZ: There are a lot of politicians that would be Latinos and there are a lot now who are Latino. Sarah Palin, Latina -- Palin.
(LAUGHTER)
She`s got all the signs. She works, and her husband don`t.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: What other signs are there that Palin is Latina?
LOPEZ: She has a child and a grandchild the same age.
(LAUGHTER)
And the tell-tale sign is she needs to get her roots done.
BEHAR: You think so?
LOPEZ: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Do you live -- let me ask you, do you live in her real America, do you think?
LOPEZ: Well, I can`t see Mexico from my porch, so I don`t think so.
BEHAR: I mean, are you -- I think you`re part of the liberal elite in some way, are you not?
LOPEZ: You know, it`s funny, because I think I have become, but I wasn`t intending that at the beginning. I mean, it`s funny that when you talk about political subjects and people that at some point they think you`re more intelligent than you actually are.
BEHAR: Yes. I think there`s a conservative elite. They`re the ones making the big money. I don`t know what she`s talking about when she says the liberal elite -- yes?
LOPEZ: I not even sure completely if she knows what she`s talking about at this point. Her whole life is really one of those things where because of the reality and the reality stars and the situations, you know, being a governor of Alaska would have been a great gig if that was it.
But to take that thing and try to take it global or through the United States when you haven`t been a political figure and you haven`t traveled and you haven`t gone to Congress and you haven`t passed any major bills, it`s a difficult pill to have America swallow.
I mean, the concept of Todd Palin being a stay-at-home dad -- listen, Joy, when I was a kid, those guys were called bums.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Yes. They`re still called bums.
Let`s talk about Obama, OK? He`s getting a lot of flak lately because he was -- they say he was groveling to the Japanese emperor. What do you think about all that criticism he`s getting?
LOPEZ: Listen, I don`t think that -- listen, you win a Nobel Peace prize, which is considered one of the best honors in the world, and it starts more fights than you could ever imagine.
I don`t think Obama can do anything right in anybody`s eyes. He inherited a mess from our predecessor for eight years. He`s only been in office for 11 months. Change doesn`t happen like that. There are people who say he hasn`t done anything.
I`m in California. We love him here because he told the federal government to lay off the medical marijuana clinics. It`s all love out here.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: He did get a lot of the Hispanic vote when he was -- right?
LOPEZ: You know, I think I was partly responsible for that because I did campaign with him for a year, and I was never a Hillary Clinton supporter. I was only a Barack Obama supporter.
And he did a promo for my show, "Lopez Tonight" on TBS. And they asked me, how did I help Barack Obama get a promo? I helped him get a birth certificate, plain and simple.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. That makes sense.
And what about Glenn Beck and these very extreme right wingers. They call him names. Names -- they`ll call him a fascist and Marxist without realizing that those two things are antithetical. They`ll call him a socialist, a racist. They even called him a racist. What do you make of that?
LOPEZ: Well, I don`t believe that that`s the case. There has to be a certain amount of respect for the office of the president of the United States.
I`m not sure in any administration that any reporter or anybody from the press had ever literally called anybody in the Oval Office a racist or a fascist or anarchist or any of the things they`re going now. I mean, it`s a little bit interesting that Glenn Beck became meaner when he went to FOX than when he was at CNN.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s true. You know, I don`t know -- I guess you consider him part of the media. I sort of think of him as a rodeo clown. I think he doesn`t even refer to himself as part of the media.
But other people during the Bush administration, myself included, took many shots at George Bush for being dumb. OK, the truth hurts, but still.
LOPEZ: Well, you know, I think Bush was Latino to because he lived in a house that wasn`t his and English wasn`t his first language. So --
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s my point. That`s my point.
LOPEZ: I think there`s some truth -- there`s some truth in that.
But this -- you know, Barack Obama cannot do anything right. And we`ll have to see in 2012 if Sarah Palin is the nominee, I said it the other night on my show, if she becomes the nominee, we will all go back to Mexico.
BEHAR: I`ll go with you. I will go with you. I love Mexican food.
Now, let`s talk about your talk show. Why did you want to do a late night talk show?
LOPEZ: It`s interesting. Obviously late night looks a certain way, and it`s hard to me for say because then I`ll be a racist, that it`s a particular hue that I don`t believe was connecting across the lines. I don`t believe it was a formula that was working beyond what America looked like.
And, you know, I have a Costco card. I see what America truly looks like, and it didn`t represent any of that. So I thought I could bring back an element and bring back conversation and bring back listening and bring back harder-edge material. And I think in the two weeks I`ve been on the air I think I`ve done that.
BEHAR: So you`re saying there are so many white guys in late night. I think that`s where you were going, right?
LOPEZ: That`s what I was trying to say is a cavalcade of Caucasians.
BEHAR: But one of the great Caucasians of late night was Johnny Carson. He really was good. You watch the others, and they`re also very good. I think all of them are very good. But Johnny had a special thing. He was so glib. He made it look like it was really was easy and very, very funny.
LOPEZ: Yes, you know, Steve Allen -- it`s interesting. I spoke to a writer who had done shows with Steve Allen. And when you come from a comedic background and Steve Allen would say, "I don`t believe it`s that hard. You know, we as comics open our heads and open -- all of our senses are open."
You have brought an element to your show own to "The View" that comedically Barbara or Whoopi, I think, has it and Sherry now has it. But in the transformations of the host, it`s not always somebody who`s consistently around being funny. It absolutely helps.
BEHAR: It is helpful to have.
Let me ask you, would you have done the 10:00 p.m. slot that Leno`s doing?
LOPEZ: You know, I would not have. That is a formula that works for hour dramas. "ER" was on NBC for 16 years. It`s really tough to try to connect with an audience that`s used to one type of show. You have your "CSIs" and you have your "Grays Anatomies."
And even that off network, there are great shows at 10:00 all across the board and all around cable. And I don`t believe that network TV is the first place to stop when you turn your television on.
So, you know, with respect to Jay Leno, I`m not sure if there are a lot of people who would have taken that spot and tried to fill in an hour of a show that was supposed to be different but that looks like it`s the same show that he had at 11:30.
BEHAR: I don`t think that was his choice to move there. I think they made that deal with Conan and then they just did it. That was a big mistake in a certain way to move it around like that. Nobody is really doing well.
LOPEZ: Yes. You know, it`s unfortunate he hasn`t gotten off to the start he wanted to get off to, and it`s affecting the news at 11:00 and "The Tonight Show" at 11:35. You know --
BEHAR: He said something about how he would take it back, the 11:30 slot. He would take it back. It`s not too late to just flip everything back again.
LOPEZ: No, I don`t believe it`s too late, that`s a good point that you`re making. I think people in America have become accustomed to seeing Jay at -- in "The Tonight Show" spot, and Conan was very comfortable in New York.
And it is a big change, and it`s affected the whole -- it`s thrown late night into flux. I`m happy to be at TBS where I have "Meet the Browns" as a lead-in and "The Office."
BEHAR: You`re doing just fine over there. Stay right there. When we come back, I`ll ask George Lopez about the worst time he ever had on stage. Don`t go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOPEZ: Oh, my god! Larry David, you are 37 percent Native American.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LOPEZ: A lot of my friends don`t speak English, so they don`t understand Rodney Dangerfield. What we need is a Spanish speaking Rodney. Wouldn`t that be great?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That is funny. You know, you`re funny. You`re a funny guy.
LOPEZ: That`s painful to watch. I bought those pants, they were the Z Caberichi pants.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Tell me, George, because we just talked about it, what was your worst moment on stage?
LOPEZ: Joy, in 1989 I was asked to perform at the Yakamo State Faire. And I didn`t realize until I got there that it was a free stage. And the guy says you ready to go on? And I looked and there was probably six people there. And I said, there`s six people. He said yes, but go up there, and as you talk, they`ll hear your voice and they`ll come and see you.
And as I was on stage, I got the biggest laughs that I got, and I couldn`t figure out why. And a clown on a miniature bike had ridden in front of the stage.
(LAUGHTER)
And I looked down at the clown and I say hey, man, how about a little professional courtesy?
BEHAR: You know, I had to follow a holocaust song one time. "And now the comedy of --" That was hard. That was hard.
I have some Twitter questions for you. All right?
LOPEZ: Yes.
BEHAR: "In his standup, George portrays his grandmother as a no nonsense lady." Like how? What was she like?
LOPEZ: You know, my grandmother I don`t think had ever experienced joy in her life. She passed in early August. And it was unfortunate that I couldn`t get her to really understand she didn`t need to worry as much as she did.
And even with some of my success, I tried to make her life better. But she never bought into the fact that you could be anything other than miserable.
BEHAR: All right.
Here`s another one. You had a kidney transplant in 2005. What happened to the old one, they want to know?
LOPEZ: The old ones remained inside me. They atrophied so bad they decided to leave them in. I have the one that was my wife`s, which is very difficult to live with, Joy, to have a piece of your wife inside of you.
BEHAR: Yes, that is rough.
LOPEZ: And sometimes if she squeezes herself really hard, I faint.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Are you worried that she might want it back? There was a story about a doctor who divorced his wife and she demanded that he return it -- he demanded that she return it.
LOPEZ: I love Anne very much, and there`s a couple nights I wanted to take it out and throw it back at her, yes.
BEHAR: How about -- and somebody wants to know, how has the kidney transplant changed you? I had a near death experience one time and it changed me. My hair went curly, a few other things. What happened to you?
LOPEZ: I learned to appreciate every day of life, Joy. I was very sick, my blood was very toxic. Even in doing this show or my HBO specials, I`ve seen you at "The View," and my attitude is always very up and very happy.
But listen, I was very sick and I didn`t think I was going to get better. I never expected that my wife would match. And I appreciate every day.
And, you know, show business is a great game to be in, especially if you have success, because any success is very difficult in this business. And I was happy with the sitcom, I`m happy with the way things are going. And the message is to live every day.
BEHAR: You have come a long way. You are hanging with the president now. It`s really fantastic. Thanks so much, George. Always a pleasure to see you.
LOPEZ: I love you, joy.
BEHAR: I love you back, thank you.
OK, George`s show airs on TBS at 11:00 p.m. Thank you for watching. Goodnight, everybody.
END
