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American Morning
Afternoons Without Oprah; Feds Explore Hasan's Radical Imam Ties
Aired November 20, 2009 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning once again. We're coming up on the top of the hour now on this Friday, November 20th.
Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. I'm John Roberts. Thanks for being with us. And here are the big stories we'll be telling you about in the next 15 minutes.
The end is in sight for "The Oprah Winfrey Show." The queen of daytime television about to announce that she is stepping down from her hit show. That will be in 2011. So what's ahead for one of the world's most powerful women? Alina Cho in Oprah's next move.
CHETRY: And the Pentagon announcing a sweeping new investigation into the threat of radicalized soldiers. We've learned that they just finished one last year and some are now asking was intelligence gleaned from that ignored? More ahead in a CNN Exclusive.
Also, shocking links between Fort Hood shooting suspect, Major Hasan, and a radical imam in Yemen.
ROBERTS: Eighties teen heartthrob Kirk Cameron now a born-again Christian and trying to debunk Darwin. He's part of a Christian group that added a chapter to Darwin's "Origin of the Species" for its 150th anniversary. How was the 2009 edition received at college? Our Carol Costello takes a look.
But our top story this morning, afternoons without Oprah? The queen of daytime -- two hours away from dropping a very big bombshell. Oprah Winfrey is about to tell the world that she is pulling the plug on her show in 2011.
CHETRY: Right, but for her fans, her syndicators, and the stations that carry her program, there are a lot of questions now about the prospect of life after Oprah.
Alina Cho has followed Winfrey's career and spent time with her. And, you know, the bottom line, though, is she's not technically, totally going away, but she's making some major changes.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, not for a while. She's starting her own cable network. Of course, you know, Oprah's appointment TV for so many Americans at 4:00 p.m., guys, you know? She is expected to make the announcement today on a special live show. That will happen at 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time. Now, the last day of her show is slated for September 9th, 2011. By then, she'll have been on the air 25 seasons. That's a quarter century, guys, as the highest rated talk show, the end of an era.
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(MUSIC PLAYING)
CHO (voice-over): She's as iconic as you can get.
OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: I've never seen you like that!
(CHEERING)
CHO: And for a show that started in Chicago with this in 1986.
WINFREY: Welcome to the very first national "Oprah Winfrey Show!"
CHO: Along the way, the queen of daytime built an empire worth nearly $2.5 billion, hosting some of our generation's biggest names -- Hollywood, politicians, even other icons.
WINFREY: This is the most exciting interview I'd ever done and certainly, was going to be the most watched.
CHO: The queen even crowned some kings, giving us Dr. Phil.
PHIL MCGRAW, DR. PHIL: Let's just calm down here.
CHO: And Dr. Oz -- turning an appearance or mere mention on the show into a life-changing experience.
HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, "CNN'S RELIABLE SOURCES": And this is not just a mere television personality. She's a brand, she's a destination.
CHO: But it was her connection to everyday people that took Oprah to the top, guiding viewers through life's challenges, and baring her own for the world to see.
WINFREY: I am mad at myself. I am embarrassed. I can't believe I'm still talking about weight.
CHO: Her ups and downs went beyond just her weight, and hair. There was an unexpected P.R hit when the real reveal came on those free cars, a $7,000 tax bill. Then there was the dirty work of picking up the million little pieces left behind by James Frey and a memoir that turned out to be mostly fiction.
WINFREY: It is difficult for me to talk to you, because I really feel duped. I feel duped.
CHO: When she endorsed then-candidate Obama, her popularity took a hit, but her candidate won.
(on camera): How does it feel tonight?
WINFREY: It feels like hope won.
CHO (voice-over): And when she teamed up with the first family to bring the Olympics home no Chicago, Oprah's golden touch failed. Yet, Oprah now leaves the daytime throne open.
So, from the woman who could be next in line...
ELLEN DEGENERES, HOST, "THE ELLEN DEGENERES SHOW": I don't think I could be here without her. I think she has blazed a trail that is...
(APPLAUSE)
DEGENERES: She's an amazing, amazing woman. She will always be the queen of daytime television. And she also said she's leaving me all of her money.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHO: Wouldn't that be great if that were true, you know? So, the big question is: What will Oprah do next? She is starting her own cable channel, as I mentioned, OWN as it's called, the Oprah Winfrey Network will launch in January of 2011. Oprah is expected to appear on the channel, but just how much and in what role guys, nobody knows but -- you know, it's safe to say that...
ROBERTS: You're getting all choked up about it.
CHO: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
CHO: Just getting over a little cold.
You know, we have watched her weight battles. We've watched her hair styles -- which you and I can relate to, over the years. You know, it is going to be a huge loss for broadcast TV.
You know, a lot of people are wondering: will she take her show to the OWN network, to the Oprah Winfrey Network? You know, nobody knows. She's certainly not talking about it. Her representatives are not talking about it. But...
CHETRY: But she's talking about it in two hours?
CHO: She's going to make the announcement that her show is ending in two hours. What more she'll say about it, of course, nobody knows until that time comes. So, we'll all be watching and waiting for that.
ROBERTS: Alina, thanks so much for that.
CHO: You bet. ROBERTS: Other stories new this morning: health care showdown on Capitol Hill. A vote scheduled for tomorrow tonight, 60 votes are needed to advance the bill toward a full debate. The Congressional Budget Office says the 2,000-plus page bill will cost $849 billion over the next decade. Republicans are promising to block the legislation, which includes a controversial public option.
CHETRY: The man once known as "America's Mayor" has no plans to be governor. Sources say Rudy Giuliani, New York's former mayor, has nixed plans to run for the state's top job. But don't count Giuliani out just yet -- sources say that he may decide to challenge Democratic Senator Kirsten Gillibrand next year.
ROBERTS: Defense Secretary Robert Gates has ordered a military- wide investigation into the Fort Hood massacre in which Army psychiatrist Nidal Hasan is accused of gunning down 13 people. Congress is also searching for answers. Terrorism analyst Brian Jenkins testified at the first public hearing on the Fort Hood attack yesterday.
Earlier, on AMERICAN MORNING, I asked him if he thought the Pentagon review would help prevent a future incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN JENKINS, TERRORISM ANALYST: We don't have X-rays for a man's soul. So, it's very, very difficult, in many cases, to predict human behavior. When we're talking about lone gunman, like Major Hasan, a lot of the journey they take into extremism is an interior one and it doesn't always have all of the external signs that we're going to look for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Jenkins says if Hasan had been working with a regular military unit instead of in a hospital setting, some of the behavior that we're now hearing about probably would have been noticed.
CHETRY: Shortly after Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced that military-wide review, CNN uncovered that the Pentagon had already commissioned such a report. And that that report was completed a year ago.
In a CNN exclusive, we talked to Shannen Rossmiller, a security expert who contributed to that classified document. She says the information could have stopped the Fort Hood massacre.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHANNEN ROSSMILER, INDEPENDENT CYBERTERRORIMS ANALYST: The report was written from the military perspective. It was entitled, "Radicalization of Members of the DOD." And what it was for them to have tools to look within their ranks to spot different criteria that showed signs and red flags of radicalization, and how to spot those, identify 'em, and then, from there, be able to head the problem off. The Defense Department report was intended to prevent something like this. And it's just astonishing that this even had to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Well, the military has now responded to our questions about the report. Officials will confirm that it exists and say that it was not classified after the Fort Hood shootings, insisting the document was classified all along. The military will not confirm anything about the contents of that report.
And as the Fort Hood investigation unfolds, officials are also taking a much harder look at a radical imam from Yemen.
ROBERTS: The Feds think that his teachings likely influenced the suspect, Major Nidal Hasan, and several other jihadists accused of attacks across the globe.
Our Jim Acosta is working that side of the story for us this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, there's a link that's emerged between the massacre at Fort Hood and a slew of recent jihadist plots. And his name is Anwar al-Awlaki.
IMAM ANWAR AL-AWLAKI, RADICAL ISLAMIC CLERIC: This is not the course you want to take and just get a grade in it and then move on. This is knowledge that you need to live with.
ACOSTA: A radical cleric who preaches jihad online, Imam Anwar al-Awlaki was known to federal authorities long before his recent contacts with alleged Fort Hood shooter, Malik Nidal Hasan.
Back in 2001, a public television crew videotaped one of al- Awlaki's sermons at Dar al-Hijrah mosque in northern Virginia, just weeks after the September 11th attacks. At that time, the imam appeared to criticize the use of terrorism.
AL-AWLAKI: The deaths and homicide of over 1 million civilians in Iraq, the fact that the U.S. is supporting the deaths and killing of thousands of Palestinians does not justify the killing of one U.S. civilian in New York City or Washington, D.C.
ACOSTA: But as it turns out, not only was Hasan attending that same mosque in 2001, so were three 9/11 hijackers.
FRANCES TOWNSEND, FORMER BUSH HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: The FBI and the counterterrorism community know al-Awlaki well. He has been the subject of interest and investigation since before and after he left the United States in 2002.
ACOSTA: Born in the U.S. and now believed to be living and blogging from Yemen, al-Awlaki hopes to inspire holy war. He's released a lecture series that he translated into English, called, "Constants on the Path of Jihad," that's described by security analysts as a how-to guide for western, homegrown terrorists. JARRET BRACHMAN, AUTHOR, "GLOBAL JIHADISM": Yes, I refer to what al-Awlaki puts out is radical Islam for dummies.
ACOSTA: In it, al-Awlaki says, "When the Muslim is in his land, he performs jihad. No borders or barriers stop it."
Federal authorities believe those lectures inspired a number of terrorist plots in the U.S., Canada, and Britain, including a plan to attack Fort Dix in New Jersey in 2007. One convicted plotter in that case was recorded by federal agents saying, "Since I heard this lecture, brother, I want everyone to hear about it. You know why, because he gives it to you raw and uncut."
BRACHMAN: From Yemen, al-Awlaki is able to put out these how-to manuals and, you know, the jihadists on the Internet right now are referring to the Fort Hood shooter as a drone, as al Qaeda's version of a predator drone. And you can say that al-Awlaki is perhaps the guy at the other end of the remote control, at least ideologically.
ACOSTA (on camera): And given that history, a growing number of counterterrorism experts believe there were enough red flags to indicate that Malik Nidal Hasan was in contact with a well-known Jidahist -- John and Kiran.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: John Acosta this morning -- Jim, thanks.
A developing story now. It will be at least another week before the White House settles on a new strategy for the war in Afghanistan. A senior administration official is telling CNN's Kate Bolduan this morning that President Obama will not make an announcement about a possible troop surge until after Thanksgiving.
Well, a black woman accused of roughing up a white cops at a Missouri Wal-Mart, is race the issue? She cut in line at the checkout counter. She got ended up getting arrested. We're following that story this morning with our Gary Tuchman.
It's 11 minutes after the hour.
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ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
A Wal-Mart scuffle that erupted into a racial controversy is going to the jury today. Police say schoolteacher Heather Ellis kicked and cursed out officers as she was taken out of the store for cutting the line. But her supporters say she is the victim.
Our Gary Tuchman has both sides for us this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Watch this surveillance video outside a Wal-Mart store in Kennett, Missouri. The person highlighted is a 21-year-old woman and prosecutors say she is kicking a police officer, one of two cops they say she assaulted.
This is the same woman today, three years later, Heather Ellis, an African-American. The cop she's accused of kicking and hitting are white. Her supporters say she was actually assaulted by the cops. But if that happened, it's not seen on the video supplied by Wal-Mart.
Her arrest has stirred up a racial hornet's nest in this tiny town. It all started in the store.
The video shows Heather Ellis' hand moving another customer's items back on the conveyer belt four times. Ellis said she wanted to check her items out, adding her cousin saved her spot. But many witnesses have testified she was cutting in line, and was profane and rude.
Kay McDaniel was managing the store that might.
KAY MCDANIEL, FMR. ASST. MANAGER, WAL-MART: I treated her just like I would you or anybody else.
TUCHMAN: McDaniel took the stand in this trial, which could lead to up 15 years in prison for Heather Ellis. The Wal-Mart manager testified she told Ellis to stop saying the F-word and to stop yelling and disturbing the customers.
Then she told the jury this.
MCDANIEL: She's looked at me and she told me that I wasn't anything but a stupid white, uneducated Wal-Mart employee. And she called Betsy, an old gray-headed lady, the cashier. And that's when I said, wait -- I said, just a minute. I said, you don't know me and I don't know you.
TUCHMAN: Five police officers were involved in the arrest. One of them was Albert Fisher, who testified, she told me I was a stupid mother blanker. She added, she let me know I didn't know who I was blanking with. And then he says when he asked her name, she said my name is Donald blanking Duck. When she said, if you try to arrest me, I'll kick your blanking blank according to the cop, he arrested her and testified the fight was on. He claims he was kicked many times as they brought her to the squad car, even before this point in the video. A second cop testified and said she hit him in the mouth.
But Heather Ellis' defense attorney is fighting back ferociously. Jurors now know that prosecution witnesses had pre-trial meetings with the prosecutor. Ellis' defense attorney hinted they could have conveniently matched their stories, because they were together during those meetings. And he wonders why the police did not independently investigate the surveillance tape, which he says left out many of the key moments of the encounter. What's notable about this trial so far is there has been no mention of racism by either side inside the courtroom.
(on-camera): Heather Ellis had the opportunity of accepting a plea bargain, in which she would have accepted responsibility for the crime, but would have received no prison time, but she and her family chose not to accept it. The case is expected to go to the jury sometime on Friday. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Kenneth (ph), Missouri.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: Still ahead, we're going to be talking about a little change this year for all the children out there who send their letters to Santa. The Postal Service may be making changes that could end up blocking the delivery of these letters. But the elves are on it. We're going to explain what the heck is going on in North Pole, Alaska, 17 minutes past the hour.
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CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": Hey, Kelloggs announced that due to a problem at the factory this year, there's going to be a nationwide shortage of Eggo waffles. Yeah. Yeah. The terror alert has been raised to orange.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning." The shortages don't just stop at Eggos and waffles. Pumpkin pie could be missing from your Thanksgiving table. Nestle is now saying that bad weather hurt its pumpkin harvest and that can create a shortage of its Libby's brand canned pumpkin.
ROBERTS: That would be a tragedy.
And the feds want you to get through airport security quicker. The Homeland Security Department is looking to expand speedy screenings for pre-approved low-risk travelers arriving here in the United States on international flights. A test program has been in place at seven airports for more than a year now.
CHETRY: Also, sure, unemployment's over 10 percent, the economy, a mixed bag. But there's one man on Capitol Hill who says, hey, it's time to stop complaining. Missouri Democrat Congressman Emanuel Cleaver wants the day before Thanksgiving to be complaint free Wednesday. Wouldn't that be nice? He wants to pass a resolution. He wants others to sign on to it. But with the airports clogged, millions traveling for the holidays, could that just be wishful thinking?
ROBERTS: Well, our Christine Romans is here "Minding Your Business" this morning, and the more things change, apparently, the more they stay the same.
CHETRY: You're not complaining, are you, Christine?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, I'm not complaining. Today's Friday. It's not really complaint-free Wednesday.
I want to tell you about lobbyists for the financial industry. The financial industry as you know has been really hit hard this year for a lot of different reasons, mostly because it led the world economy to the edge of the abyss. Well, 2009 saw dozens and dozens -- make that hundreds of former Federal employees and former members of Congress, former senators go to work to lobby their old colleagues for the financial services industry.
According to Public Citizen, based on documents from the Center for Responsive Politics, 940 former Federal employees in 2009 went to work for the financial industry. Seventy former Congress members, 52 who worked or served on banking committees in the House or the Senate, important, powerful banking committees with oversight for the financial sector, 41 worked for members who are currently on committees. So think of that, 41 former staffers whose bosses still are important and writing legislation that pertains to the financial industry are writing -- it's called the revolving door. It's the revolving door...
ROBERTS: On the front of a building, you see the signs that say, please use the revolving door. We better take those signs down.
ROMANS: Coming from the SEC, coming from members of Congress so just go through the door and then go start working for the industry that they once they wrote laws for, had to oversee. The most revolving door lobbyists in 2009 according to Public Citizen, Visa had 37, Goldman Sachs had 33, the Private Equity Council had 32, Prudential Financial has 30, the American Bankers Association, 29 and Citigroup, 29.
Now I have done a lot of these stories about the revolving door and what I hear mostly from people who hate the revolving door is that, look, these people are well connected and they are definitely, definitely using their clout to benefit the companies, not the American people.
On the other side, though, you will hear from the companies who say, look, this is how America works. You have people who know how Congress works, who know how writing legislation works, who know how to get things done who are in there, helping make this a smoother process. It's all part of democracy and it is part of democracy. There are some rules, you have to wait two years in some cases if you're a member of Congress, I think it's two years, if you're a member or Congress or a senator before you can go and directly lobby on something that you wrote legislation on, but a lot of people say it's just unseemly.
ROBERTS: There's a ton of money to be made too.
ROMANS: Oh, yeah. Look, some of these public servants say don't make a lot of money, especially at the SEC or something, you make $50,000 a year, doing really long hours, doing really hard work and then you go and you work for one of these big firms --
CHETRY: It's like your residency right before you finally make it big (INAUDIBLE). A "Romans' Numeral," this is the number that Christine gives us every morning, driving a story about your money today. What is our "Romans' Numeral" this hour?
ROMANS: It is 25, 25 is the "Romans' Numeral." It has to do, sort of with the revolving door, but mostly with the influence of lobbyists on Capitol Hill.
ROBERTS: Twenty five percent of all legislation is written by the lobbyists.
ROMANS: I would say that's a low number.
CHETRY: There's 25 lobbyists for each member of Congress.
ROMANS: Yep. There are 25 registered lobbyists for each member of Congress. Isn't that nice to know? Whenever I hear these numbers or work out these numbers, I always think, I hope many of them are working at cross purposes. Cancel each other out hopefully.
CHETRY: Maybe. We have a lot more about this this weekend on "Your Money." It's a show I do with Ali Velshi, the hairless prophet of doom.
ROBERTS: The hairless prophet of doom.
ROMANS: It's Saturday at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, Sunday at 3:00, a lot more on "Your Money" at work.
ROBERTS: Where's he been, lately?
ROMANS: He's on the road. He's talking to the American people. He's finding out what's really happening out there. I think he's in Chicago this weekend actually.
ROBERTS: Is he coming back and sharing it with everybody else on the air or is he just out there talking?
ROMANS: I don't know. I don't know. I think he's talking.
CHETRY: A lot of people are watching your show as you know from the last week, so, congratulations.
ROMANS: We'll be watching.
ROBERTS: It's the new smack down over evolution. A teen idol takes on Darwin. We'll tell you the story coming right up. It's 24 1/2 minutes after the hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. It's 27 minutes past the hour right now. Former teen idol Kirk Cameron is now on a crusade to debunk the theory of evolution. He's now a born- again Christian and part of a group that wrote a new 50-page intro to Darwin's manifesto to celebrate its 150th anniversary.
ROBERTS: He's hoping that college students add it to their list of must-read things over their winter break. Our Carol Costello live in Washington with more on this this morning. And Carol, you've got a copy of the new "Origin of the Species" with you. Could you show us the new introduction to it. CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not new, the introduction is new, and yes, I have the book right here. Mike Seaver has come a long way, hasn't he? Creationists, thwarted by court rulings that creationism cannot be taught in most schools have come up with this new tactic. They're using Charles Darwin's classic with additions, a new introduction. (INAUDIBLE) ministry says it handed out 170,000 copies of "On the Origin of Species" at 100 universities across the country. The question, will it work?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A free book?
COSTELLO (voice-over): Volunteers from the Living Waters Ministry hope to pass out thousands of copies of Charles Darwins "On the Origins of Species" at universities across the country.
(on camera): Why are you so passionate about this?
DEBRA MEHAFFEY, LIVING WATERS MINISTRY VOLUNTEER: Because it matters -- it impacts a person's eternal destiny.
COSTELLO (voice-over): They're not passing out Darwin's book as he wrote it, but with an introduction disputing evolution. On Living Waters' website, Kirk Cameron explains it this way.
KIRK CAMERON, ACTOR: An entire generation is being brainwashed by atheistic evolution without even hearing the alternative.
COSTELLO: Cameron, along with Living Waters founder Ray Comfort are determined students learn about creationism, the belief that God created man, so they've added a 50-page introduction to Darwin's book, alleging among other things, Adolf Hitler's undeniable connection to evolutionary theory, Darwin's racism and his disdain for women.
RAY COMFORT, PRO-CREATIONIST AUTHOR: All I want to do is confront young people to think about what they believe and realize that obviously, there had to be an initial cause. We believe in the free exchange of ideas and those who are open hearted will appreciate what we've done.
COSTELLO: Their effort to discredit Darwin hasn't exactly been smooth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm afraid that on that basis, I can't accept your book.
COSTELLO: But that's not to say professors across the country want Cameron's group thrown off campuses.
Professor Kenneth Miller teaches biology at Brown. He's also a devout Catholic.
KENNETH MILLER, BROWN UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR: It's something I would want my students to get a hold of and tear apart.
COSTELLO: Not literally, but intellectually. Miller says the introduction is mostly filled with propaganda and personal attacks.
MILLER: I think one of the most scurrilous things about this introduction is to imply that Darwin was a racist and a sexist, that he was responsible for example, for the Nazi ideology that led to the holocaust, and so forth. This is absolute nonsense.
MILLER: And he says no one's soul will be lost because they believe in Darwin's science-based discovery. The Catholic Church believes god created the universe and the science of evolution explains how he did it.
Kirk Cameron would not talk with us on camera about his efforts, but he did send us pictures.
That's him at UCLA handing out his version of "Origin of the Species."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: If you are wondering if it's legal to add your own introduction to an existing book, it is. Darwin's book has been around for 150 years or so, so it's in the public domain. That means you can legally add an introduction -- John, Kiran?
ROBERTS: Carol Costello this morning. Carol, thanks so much.
CHETRY: It's 30 minutes past the hour. We check our top stories.
Americans passing the blame for the worst recession since the depression. According to a new CNN Opinion Research Poll, the number of people who blame Republicans for the economic crisis is down from May, while at the same time those who blame Democrats is up. About a quarter of those polled say that both parties are responsible.
ROBERTS: When a patient comes in for a tummy tuck, the government may soon take its pound of flesh. Senate Democrats are proposing to tax elective cosmetic surgery to help pay for their health care overhaul.
The White House and Senate Democrats are proposing a new five percent tax on popular cosmetic procedures like a tummy tuck, Botox, and breast implants. The so-called "Bo-tax" is estimated to raise $5 billion over a decade. Not surprisingly, drug companies and cosmetic surgeons are trying to nip the proposal from the bill.
CHETRY: Many students in California are looking at more loans, maybe a second or third job now. The U.C. board of regents voted to increase basic education fees for undergrads by a third to more than $10,000 next year.
Hundreds of students staged a sit-in outside the meeting, calling it "the death of public education." The fees kick in next fall. The school's president said that it will not apply to families who are earning less than $70,000. Well, Republican Senator John Thune is saying enough is enough when it comes to throwing money at troubled banks and financial institutions. He's introducing legislation to end the Troubled Asset Relief Program, the big bank bailout known as TARP. The Obama administration does have the option of extending the program for another ten months.
So here to explain his position is South Dakota Senator John Thune. He joins us from Capitol Hill this morning.
Senator, thanks for being with us.
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: Good morning, Kiran.
CHETRY: So, first, explain how you reconcile the fact that you did vote for this $700 billion bailout initially last fall, to your now, your opposition to it.
THUNE: Many of us who voted for it last fall, Kiran, did so, because we were told at the time, that the economy was on the verge of imminent collapse, that we had to do something to avoid the systemic risk that was posed to our economy it we didn't take steps.
And I think we did provide some stability, but that was a specific purpose at a specific time. The TARP program has outlived that purpose and I believe it's time to end it.
The problem you run into now is you've got this fund around Washington, and anytime there's loose change around Washington, people have designs on it. My concern is that it's going to turn into a political slush fund that will be used for all kinds of other things.
And we've already seen that, what was supposed to be something to provide stability for financial institution has now been used to bail out financial companies, auto manufacturers, most recently a $50 billion installment from the TARP fund has been used to do a loan modification fund which the inspector general for TARP says we're never going to recover.
CHETRY: Right.
THUNE: So there are lots of things I think that this could be used for. And I think best use of it is debt retirement, and that's what my bill does.
CHETRY: Let me ask you a question. Are you guys trying to put the genie back in the bottle when it comes to this? Basically, it was a blank check to treasury, this TARP, and it was allowed to continue. It started under the Bush administration, continued under the Obama administration. And many are asking why Congress didn't add more strings to this money in the first place.
THUNE: Well, Congress, I think, at the time thought that any unobligated funds in TARP or any funds that were paid back in, and there have been some that have been paid back in, should go to pay down the federal debt. What the interpretation the administration has taken is these can be recycled, that they can be reused. And we're already seeing that, and the administration has indicated that they intend to extend the authority for TARP.
All we're simply saying is at the end of this, let's end it. There are unobligated balances and funds that have been paid back to the tune of $300 billion, and any funds that would be paid back in the future from the assets the government now owns would be used to pay down the federal debt, which I think is one of the most important priorities we have right now. We ought to be doing everything we can to pay down the federal debt.
My bill, it's a one page bill, would do that. And it seems to me this is something that would have a lot of support across the country and I hope would have a lot of support in the Congress.
CHETRY: Another question that people have is, was TARP used properly in other instances as well?
Neil Barofsky, as we know, he is the special inspector general overseeing this program, making sure that things work out well. One of the things he said last month is the Making Home Affordable program, taking about $50 billion in TARP funds, and he says that the risk of foreclosure continues to affect too many Americans.
Why are these programs failing?
THUNE: Well, I think that the TARP program, as I mentioned earlier, has a sort of specific statutory purpose when it was designed and created by the Congress. It was to provide stability to financial institutions in this country.
It has now morphed into something much different than that. It's been used for insurance companies, used for auto manufacturers, and now it's been used for this loan modification fund that we mentioned. And the inspector general Neil Barosky has said he doesn't expect to recover any of the funds from that. It's a $50 billion use of those funds.
There is already talk about using some of those TARP funds, the money that's left, for other things. And you're hearing my colleagues here on Capitol Hill start to talk about that.
So my concern is if we don't shut this thing down and apply whatever's left and whatever comes in to paying down the federal debt, it will continue to be a slush fund that is used for all these other purposes, many of which I don't think the taxpayers will see any return from.
CHETRY: Well, you acknowledge as many others that lending's still a problem, especially for small businesses. These banks are not lending, right, and part of the reason was to free up credit.
Why, then, are these troubled assets, these were supposed to be taken off the bank's book, why are they still there? Why not use the TARP money for what it was supposed to do, just take these troubled assets off the banks' books so they could lend more?
THUNE: And that was the original purpose for the TARP program. It was never done. And I think one of the reasons it was never done is they couldn't figure out how to value those assets. And so they didn't want to -- they were worried about putting taxpayer dollars at risk on something they didn't have any idea what the value was.
So what they ended up doing was taking all these ownership interests, equity stakes in a lot of these companies, and the federal government became an owner of many aspects of our private economy, which I think is a really bad precedent and leads to all kinds of inherent conflicts of interest, and we're starting to see that play out now.
So you could argue that it could be used for that, but it seems to me at least right now a better use of these funds is to pay down the federal debt. I think that there are some issues that continue to exist out there with regard to residential lending and commercial lending, but I don't think keeping the TARP program around is going to solve those.
Senator John Thune, great to get your take this morning. Thanks for being with us.
THUNE: Thanks, Kiran.
ROBERTS: This year, tens of thousands of children will be sending letters to Santa Claus, addressing them to the North Pole, but there's a little bit of a problem. The Postal Service is potentially blocking those letters.
But don't worry. Some people are working very hard to make sure your letters to Santa Claus get through. We'll talk to one of them coming up next.
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ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
You better tell the kids that they may not get a response from Santa this year if they send a letter. In fact, there's a chance that their letters to jolly old St. Nick may end up getting shredded before he even gets his hands on them, or his elves which sometimes help answer the letters too.
CHETRY: That's right. So the U.S. Postal Service announced these plans to drop the popular letters to Santa program after more than five decades. It's been around since 1954. It's all because of an unfortunate incident in Maryland where an operation Santa volunteer was recognized as a registered sex offender.
Joining us now on the phone is Doug Isaacson. He is the mayor of North Pole, Alaska, near Fairbanks. It's where volunteers have been handling thousands of letters from children to Santa every Christmas.
First of all, this is a tradition. As I understand it, you guys love taking part in this tradition. It means so much to so many children around the world. Tell us what's going on there this morning.
MAYOR DOUG ISAACSON, NORTH POLE, ALASKA (via telephone): Well, good morning.
North Pole, Alaska, is known as the city where the spirit of Christmas lives year round. And so the Post Office has normally been partnering with us and with volunteers in our community, especially with Santa's Mailbag, to be able to answer letters from children to Santa from all around the world.
And so this year, we were told, in fact, I found out late last week, that we would not be able to answer these letters anymore.
ROBERTS: Mr. Mayor, it's John Roberts here with Kiran. This all stems out of an incident that happened in Maryland a year ago, where instead of one of the letters to Santa going to an elf to be responded to, somehow a registered sex offender got his hands on a letter, didn't manage to get a response before the elf stepped in and stopped him.
But the Post Office put in restrictions on their program, which meant that you could no longer have the name of the child or the address of the child. It was a bar code that only the Post Office knew about how to connect the address to.
And they're saying that these new restrictions that they've put in just can't be followed there in North Pole. Is that, in fact, the case, that you just don't have the technology to conform with the Post Office guidelines there?
ISAACSON: John, the important thing is that the -- we do need to consider how to protect people. However, the provisions that the Post Office put in, as I understand it, are just not going to be safeguarding people, because I ask the direct question, do you actually log in the name and the address of the letter? No, we just really log in who gets the letter to answer it.
Then I said, well, if Mary Jane sends a letter to Santa from Pennsylvania, let's say, and then Mary Jane is unfortunately abducted, did you know who wrote her? No, we don't know that. Well, then how is that going to protect the child?
This is -- just because they put in a bureaucratic list of onerous regulations doesn't mean that that's going to protect anyone.
But we've been doing this since 1954 without a single incident, hundreds of thousands of letters. In fact, you ask if we have the ability to answer or to provide this type of safeguard. Our postmaster said it would take about 15 extra people in a small Post Office.
Our Post Office serves maybe 30,000 people. Our town is only 2,100. We get 300,000 letters. In fact, the assistant postmaster general told our senator, Lisa Murkowski in Washington, D.C., that last year we received 140,000 letters.
CHETRY: Wow. It's going to be hard for you guys to do.
But as I understand it, you have one chief elf who heads the volunteer program that you guys were talking about, the Santa's Mailbag. There may be a way around it if they can work with the local government to get 101 Santa Claus Lane as an actual address for the group, right, so that the letters would go right to this address at the north pole?
ISAACSON: Yes, Kiran. Because the Post Office says that they can deliver to a specific address. Well, so if you send it to Santa's mail bag or if you send it to Santa Claus house, you have some images of that online here. If you send it to maybe even city hall, self- addressed stamped envelope, hey, would you please get a North Pole postmark on it, we can help you that way.
But if you just send it to Santa at North Pole, Alaska, or North Pole, which most of them come in at the Grinch might steal it.
ROBERTS: All right, well, that's a good tip, Mayor Doug Isaacson from North Pole, Alaska, thanks for helping us out with all that.
And an early Merry Christmas to you as well.
ISAACSON: And Merry Christmas to you. Thank you.
CHETRY: You too, and so for the parents out there, your kids are writing letters to Santa, just write North Pole, City Hall, it'll get there.
ROBERTS: There you go or City Hall of North Pole, Alaska, whatever.
The cost of prescription drugs going up; how to get them cheap. Our resident frugal expert Dr. Sanjay Gupta is coming up next.
Forty-six minutes after the hour.
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ROBERTS: It's a lovely picture of New York Central Park this morning and doesn't it look better than it did yesterday? Sunny and 56 degrees right now; all of the rain has blown out of here. Later on today, it'll be partly cloudy with a high of 61.
Rob Marciano is tracking the weather across the country.
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CHETRY: Merry Christmas. North Pole, Alaska, City Hall, don't forget Rob, when you send your little "I want Yankees season tickets" letter. All right, thanks.
Still ahead, the cost of prescription drugs, how do you keep them cheap? There are some ways -- there are some ways that you can find to make your drug prescriptions cheaper. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to join us to explain.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH CONAN O'BRIEN": Earlier this week -- this is crazy, that the country's first marijuana cafe opened up, which not only sells medical marijuana, but also has a restaurant where customers can eat. Yes, that's right. Yes, in a related story, the recession is over. All right, it's the perfect solution to all of our problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Fifty three minutes past the hour.
Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
You know, a tough economy has many Americans making tough choices. In fact, about a quarter of Americans have flat-out stopped taking their prescription medicine to save money.
ROBERTS: Well, a new study says that Americans can actually save about 30 percent on their prescriptions, but most of us just don't know how. Let's bring in our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. He's in Atlanta.
So without getting on a bus and heading for Canada, Sanjay...
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.
ROBERTS: How do we save money on prescription drugs?
GUPTA: Well, there are some pretty simple and pretty effective ways to do this. We researched lots of different strategies here. And I wanted to bring you some that actually work. A couple are going to sound pretty simple, but can save you a lot of money.
First of all, think about buying prescription medications in bulk. If you're taking your regular prescription medications, if you buy it in bulk and ask for a 90-day supply as opposed to a 30-day supply. If your co-pay is the same, you're going to save money there and you just might save money overall.
Also, depending on the medication, there's lots of stores out there now, discount pharmacies that will give you a 90-day supply for the same price of $10.
Also, we talk a lot about generic drugs. This is an important point. You can save 80 percent to 85 percent on your medications by buying generic. Some people are a little dubious about this and it's true the pills may look different and sometimes they may absorb differently as well, so you may get the medication faster or the effect of it faster or slower depending on the medication, but for the most part, that can be a pretty effective way as well. Then there are these discount cards as well, as you're seeing up on the screen get up to 50 percent if you are eligible. But you have to apply for it. That's the caveat there. And oftentimes, when the government, some not for profit organizations as well. But a lot of people sort of focused on this, trying to cut down on the cost overall of these medications.
CHETRY: Sanjay, we hear about people splitting their pills, right, to make them last longer. Is that dangerous at all?
GUPTA: Well, you know -- and most doctors will say, stay away from that. And I think it's true, for example, if you've been taking ten milligrams of a blood pressure medication for a long time and now you're trying to cut costs so you split it into fives, that's going to be a problem.
But here's some other strategies you can do. Instead, ask your doctor if you can get 20-milligram prescriptions.
CHETRY: Right.
GUPTA: A lot of those pills will be scored right down the middle. You can break those into tens. The caveat there a little bit is that some of these medications are what are known as time released or extended release, if you start splitting those that might be a bit of a problem.
So do a little bit of homework on that, see if you can up the dosage and again, that might be a cost savings mechanism.
CHETRY: Right.
GUPTA: Another thing that's sort of interesting is that all pharmacies are not the same. So you can go to pharmacies and sometimes get the same medication cheaper at one versus the other. So pharmacies are starting to discount and compete that way as well especially in this economy. So you know search for that a little bit.
ROBERTS: Some of those big box stores offer a lot of discounts at their pharmacies.
Hey just back to the getting three months at a time. Here at CNN, I've been using mail order prescriptions. Do you have to have a subscription to that through your health insurance plan or can anyone access mail order prescriptions?
GUPTA: You have to have a prescription...
ROBERTS: No, no, I know you have to have a prescription, but a subscription through your health plan? Or could you just take your prescription and send it off to a mail order pharmacy?
GUPTA: Oh yes, no, you could send it off to a mail order, anybody can qualify to get medications from a mail order pharmacy. Some insurance plans are making it now so that you have to get your prescriptions that you can through these mail order pharmacies, but anyone's really eligible for it.
CHETRY: All right. And then one other quick question along those lines, what if there's no refills? Can you ask your doctor, hey, this medication doesn't come with refills...
GUPTA: Right.
CHETRY: ... but can you put three down so that I can get -- so I can send it away and get all of them -- on 90-day supply.
GUPTA: Absolutely. And some of them will just write, dispense 90 pills instead of dispensing 30 pills which takes care of that concern.
Most medications, though, you can ask the doctor to get refills. It saves you a trip back to the doctor as well as being able to get the medications in larger amounts.
Some medications aren't going to qualify for that. There are different sort of grades of medications and some doctors simply can't do that. But that's another good strategy.
ROBERTS: Sanjay Gupta for us this morning. Doc some great tips thanks for that.
GUPTA: Thanks guys.
ROBERTS: Fifty seven minutes after the hour.
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