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Healthcare Reform Bill; Ft. Hood Shootings; Holiday Shopping
Aired November 21, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CENTER: Of course, you can watch all of our ten heroes being honored Thanksgiving night, right here on CNN. Anderson Cooper hosts, "CNN Hero's" the tribute at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 6:00 p.m. Pacific. Gather your family and friends and be inspired by what you see unfold.
The Ft. Hood massacre red flags about alleged shooter Nidal Hasan. Congress demands answers. While Hasan has a hearing in his hospital room.
Health care showdown in the Senate. Democrats put to the test in the critical vote just hours away.
And holiday shopping in a recession. Personal finance experts Ken and Daria Dolan in surviving this season with out breaking your budget.
Hello everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.
The fight over health care reform is reaching a boiling point in the U.S. Senate now in a rare Saturday session. Democrats are serving up an $848 billion reform bill. They have to muster up 60 votes before they can even begin debating the bill. That critical vote is now five hours away. A short time ago, two key Democratic hold outs announced that they will vote to move the measure forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BLANCHE LINCOLN, (D) ARKANSAS: All though, I don't agree with everything in this bill, I have concluded, that I believe it is more important that we begin this debate to improve our nation's health care system for all Americans rather than just simply drop the issue and walk away.
SEN. MARY LANDRIEU, (D) LOUISANA: It is clear to me that doing nothing is not an option. Nor is waiting any longer for this debate to begin, to continue and to come to some final conclusion. Spirited debate and good faith negotiations in this Senate have produced a bill that contains some amazing and cutting edge reforms that will, I am hopeful, reduce cost for families and small business while reducing the debt burden of the federal government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: CNN senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash is live on Capitol Hill. So Dana those two holds outs of their yes votes, they haven't voted yet but you know what I mean. Moving in the direction of a yes vote later on this evening. Sure this bill will indeed advance to some sort of debate.
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. This is the United States Senate, there could be some surprises. It looks like the air is out of the balloon, if you will. The Democratic leadership now has all of the 60 Senators that they need on record saying that they are going to vote the way they need to at 8:00 Eastern tonight. That is to continue debate.
But you just heard from the last two Democratic hold outs at least publicly, Blanche Lincoln and Mary Landrieu you cannot underestimate the political pressure on them, especially Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas. She's got a tough re-election battle next year. And even before she was done speaking Fredricka, there was an e-mail from the Republican Campaign Committee blasting her for being the 60th vote to advance Barack Obama's agenda, health care agenda.
That is probably why, a big part of Blanche Lincoln's speech, which was quite fiery on the Senate floor was intended to hit back at that. You heard her say this is not about that. That she adamantly disapproves of much of what is in this bill, but she does want to be part of the solution, so it's a very, very tough political issue for them, but especially Blanche Lincoln.
WHITFIELD: So now when does the debating actually begin? Say 8:00 tonight, indeed there are the 60 votes will go forward. What is the timetable we are talking about?
BASH: Well then they will take a break for Thanksgiving. The Senate will probably be out all of next week, that's the plan right now. Then, they come back and they are going to have probably three weeks or maybe even more Fredricka of debate where there will be amendment after amendment after amendment and many of the controversial issues, the public option is one that both Senator Landrieu and Senator Lincoln brought up. They both said that they oppose that. There's no way right now to see a public option in the form it's in allowing states to opt out. Getting off the Senate floor so that is just one example of something highly controversial that divides Democrats and it is going to have to change for the president to get what he wants at least from the Senate.
WHITFIELD: So public option possibly a sticking point. What others might there be?
BASH: There are a lot of them. In terms of the hot button issue, there is the issue of abortion. We have heard Republicans on the floor a lot today, surprisingly a lot talking about the fact that this bill doesn't go far enough to make sure federal funding doesn't go for abortion. They are trying to box in some antiabortion Democrats. That is going to be a tough one as we talk about going down the road in the Senate and also sending the bill to the president.
WHITFIELD: All right. Dana Bash, thanks so much, from Capitol Hill, appreciate it.
BASH: Thank you. WHITFIELD: Of course the White House keeping a close eye on today's session. In the Senate joining us live from the White House, CNN's Kate Baldwin. So Kate how confident is the White House now, hearing that there might be the 60 votes in order to move forward on the debate?
KATE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have been seeking out some initial reaction to these announcements, but as Dana even indicated, here at the White House, they are aware, don't count the votes until the last vote is absolutely counted. So no reaction yet, from the White House on this announcement, on the news that both Senator Landrieu and Senator Lincoln will be signing on to say yes to move the debate to the Senate floor.
But you can be sure that the president is very much being kept up to date on the debate and this vote count. One White House aide telling me earlier this morning they are very closely monitoring the debate as it unfolds. Possibly, before that, to apply a little bit of pressure to get this ball rolling. The White House released a statement last night, Fredricka; really it is called a Statement of Administration Policy, basically laying out clearly the president's position on this.
Just in part, it says the administration strongly supports the Senate bill that is before the Senate and it goes on to say, it represents a critical milestone in the effort to reform our health care system. A critical milestone, but not the end game that the president is looking for, which the White House has called to have a bill, a health care reform bill on the president's desk by the end of the year. It's still unclear if they will be able to meet that timetable. But we will be watching and waiting for reaction from the president and the White House this evening.
WHITFIELD: And so Kate is there any way of knowing what we are going to see from the White House and what we are going to see from President Obama over the course of maybe those three weeks of debate if indeed that vote is there tonight?
BALDWIN: I think you could very clearly bet that there's going to continue to be, probably both public and private behind closed doors pressure to get this ball rolling. In that statement I was telling you, it says the administration really agrees with the public option, the controversial public option that Dana was talking about; it's one of the best ways to provide choice and competition. So we'll be looking to see where the White House kind of maneuvers and takes a position on that issue. But you can be sure, just as we seen in the past weeks, the White House has been very much taking part in the behind the scenes discussions, a little bit of arm twisting trying to get this ball moving. And you can be sure that will continue in the weeks ahead.
WHITFIELD: All right. Kate Baldwin, at the White House, appreciates it.
Health care reform is igniting a fire storm among a lot of protestors who are hitting the streets again today, rallying against the bill. Demonstrations are planned in Los Angeles, Chicago, Indianapolis, Atlanta, and Salem, Oregon. A group of specialty surgeons called Doctors for Patient Care is hosting these events. It opposes a government run health care plan.
Republican Senators who strongly oppose the Democratic health care bill scheduled a news conference later on this hour. And of course we'll be bringing that to you live when it happens. We think it's about 20 minutes away.
The vote to move the bill to the Senate floor for debate is expected tonight at around 8:00 Eastern. It's confusing as you are seeing them on the floor right now. They are expressing their views about where they would vote come 8:00 tonight. Once the vote transpires, we'll find out how the debate moves forward from there. We'll take you to the Senate chambers of course when that vote happens at 8:00 p.m.
On to San Antonio, Texas now, a bedside hearing today, for the suspect in the Ft. Hood shooting rampage. It will take place in Major Nidal Hasan's hospital room at Brooke Army Medical Center. Hasan's civilian attorney says his client's commanders have already placed him in what's considered pre-trial confinement. The hearing will determine whether it's appropriate. Hasan who was shot by police officers during the rampage is charged with 13 counts of murder.
The Senate's homeland security committee is investigating the Ft. Hood shootings. Hearings got under way Thursday and among other things the panel wants to know if the army missed warning signs that might have prevented the killings. Committee chairman Joe Lieberman says it appears there was enough information available to law enforcement, the military and intelligence agencies to raise alarm bells about Hasan. But no one connected the dots, he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY CHAIRMAN: Congress is interested in this from a preventive point of view. Was something missing in the behavior of the people that work for the Federal government and the rules that guide that behavior, whether in the Justice Department or in the military that will help us prevent a soldier from reeking the havoc and pain and death Dr. Hasan did at Ft. Hood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Lieberman says if all the information about Hasan had been gathered at one desk, someone might have determined that he was dangerous.
All right. The bad economic times are still reverberating across the country. Protests erupted at several University of California campuses over a sizable tuition hike. Administrators say they had no choice but to raise tuition or to cut services.
And the nation's retailers are bracing for rough holiday shopping season. We will tell you how to get the most out of your shopping dollars.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right, pretty hard to believe, but the holidays are almost upon us. With the economic downturn, a lot of people will try to reign in their shopping. Personal finance experts Ken and Daria Dolan have some dos and don'ts on how to get through the holiday season without breaking the bank. Glad you have reported for duty. Good to see you all.
KEN DOLAN, PERSONAL FINANCE EXPERT: Hi, Fred.
WHITFIELD: Hi. Huge promotions and sales and we're not even at Black Friday, yet. Ken and Daria who should be spending?
K. DOLAN: I heard my first Christmas carol on the fourth of July.
WHITFIELD: No, you didn't.
DARIA DOLAN, PERSONAL FINANCE EXPERT: Retail experts are saying that there will be price wars erupting. That is how serious retailers are dreading this holiday season. If you listen to us everybody, they are going to dread it even more because you're not going to buy if you can't afford to pay cash.
K. DOLAN: We are concerned that if you don't have money left after the knuckle heads in Washington are done with us.
WHITFIELD: You have two concerns there. But let's talk about those with cash or looking toward their credit cards. People get into the holiday season and OK true, maybe they don't have the cash, but they are thinking about the pressure coming from their little tots and other family members or they feel they have to give something. So as they wait for those sales, Black Friday, usually, they are giant cuts, if you stand in line at 5:00 am. How do you balance?
K. DOLAN: We'll be right back. Stay there.
D. DOLAN: It's a little tough to tell them Santa Claus got run over by a reindeer.
WHITFIELD: You can't do it.
K. DOLAN: We already tried that.
D. DOLAN: But as far as family members and friends, I have a feeling that all it would take is for one brave person to look that other adult in the eye and say, you know what? I'm worried about the economy; I'm worried about my job --
WHITFIELD: Here is my hug. That's about the biggest gift you're going to get right now.
D. DOLAN: Exactly.
K. DOLAN: You know there's nothing wrong with that.
WHITFIELD: No. K. DOLAN: Because I will tell you Fredricka we go all over the country. America is telling us that they are going to use 25 percent of Americans are going to pay cash. Many Americans are saying I'm going to do something I never did. What a concept. How much can I spend and who am I going to spend it on? That's it. A lot of people pay for Christmas and pay for the holidays until the following September. Statistically.
WHITFIELD: That's bad. And you know what else happens. Here are some dos and don'ts you guys say create a budget and stick to it, use checks to pay for purchases, do online shopping right now.
K. DOLAN: Right now, for sure.
WHITFIELD: Why now? Because there are better deals?
D. DOLAN: You don't have to rush.
K. DOLAN: Absolutely, make online is easy to do without going to 100 stores. Shop around. Look at the value of retailers.
WHITFIELD: Real quick, you may be going to the store and saying I'm going to pay cash, oh, my gosh, if you sign up now with this credit card we'll give you 10 or 20 percent off. Don't do it. I get it.
K. DOLAN: We didn't even rehearse that.
D. DOLAN: First off credit cards coming from department stores have the highest interest rates of all of them. For the little stinking 10 percent you're going to get now, you'll pay 22 percent to them.
WHITFIELD: What if they say no finance charges now it will come later. You don't buy that either?
K. DOLAN: You'll need another car. You don't need a high interest rate. You don't need the connivance of having to shop at that store.
D. DOLAN: What happens with that interest later, buy now pay later deals, when later comes around a lot of people haven't put the money on the side. They get hit with all the interest that never got charged and the actual payment itself and they end up in the hole.
WHITFIELD: Suddenly $50 becomes $500.
K. DOLAN: Don't buy the people that you love and respect. You don't have to spend a lot of money. If they get it and you are good 364 days a year, that 365th day, you don't have to add to the $8,500 average credit card balance already out in America.
WHITFIELD: I like that. This is --
K. DOLAN: It's true.
WHITFIELD: This is what we should be thinking when it comes to holiday spending. And you know right after the holidays comes the New Year. There are also some tax changes we all need to be aware of that could be really advantageous about what is in store. But what about that $400 tax credit a lot of us got from that stimulus bill?
D. DOLAN: Well you know this is what happens when you legislate in haste. Nobody reads these things. We won't get into the big one on the plate now. A small thing like President Obama's promise to give tax cuts to 95 percent. What they did was they didn't get the tax tables right at the IRS and the legislatures weren't aware of it. If you are a two-couple working family, I mean if you are a person holding down two jobs for your family, you are getting that same enhanced with holding on both jobs. You are entitled to the one $400 break. You could end up owing $400 come April.
If you are a retiree getting Social Security but also working, you are going to have to pay back that $250 goose that Social Security recipients got. This could tell a tale, if you spend too much this Christmas.
WHITFIELD: You know Ken and Daria we have gotten a lot of e-mail questions and that from people, too. Josh Levs has been going through some of them. We are going to have you back in the next hour, too. Ken and Daria.
K. DOLAN: That would be great. Hold on, I'm giving her my Christmas present. That's all, that's it.
WHITFIELD: Send a kiss and hug to Josh, too. Because he's a new daddy. He was there for every minute of it.
K. DOLAN: We will see you next hour.
D. DOLAN: How fabulous.
WHITFIELD: All right. So what do you have, Josh. I want to tell the world about all the details, but I know you are shy.
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But the truth is everybody is asking me what happened. We'll have to do something.
WHITFIELD: He helped deliver his own baby, people.
LEVS: I didn't have help. Basically, she skipped labor, boom, and baby. It's the whole story. Everybody is happy. Everybody is beautiful.
WHITFIELD: Back to the subject. Sorry. That's what I do; take us off the tracks back on the track.
LEVS: This is great. Let's do this. I want to show you one of the questions we got. Because talking about credit cards go straight to the screen. This comes from Cat on facebook and what she writes. I'll read it to you. Will we be getting a credit hike, if we have been good and paid our credit cards off each month? A lot of people looking ahead to next year and want to know what is going to be happening with the new credit card. A lot of people are afraid that these days, even if you are great, you pay your credit cards in full every month, you are going to be losing more and more available credit. What do you guys think is going to happen there? K. DOLAN: I think that is true. You said it right Josh. I'm up to date on my credit card payments, everything is under control. The credit card companies I don't want to say all but most of them are nickel and diming us to death. The good news is the legislation that was supposed to start in February is going to be starting in December. We'll talk more about that as we go. But credit is shrinking. If you are a small business person or credit card holder, it's shrinking.
D. DOLAN: Because they are worried that you may be good now one job loss and you won't be good anymore.
K. DOLAN: You are one job loss away from not being able to pay.
WHITFIELD: OK.
LEVS: We have a screen. This is where to send them now. Facebook, twitter and our blog, Fred, you and me. Send your questions. We'll be back next hour.
WHITFIELD: We are hearing lot from people. Next hour see you all in a bit. We have a short break right now. Much more straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: A nightmare for small business owner. Your clients have stopped paying and some of your projects have been cancelled. So what do you do? CNN's Christine Romans talked to the owner of a small architectural firm who found a new path to success.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Dennis Belfiore has spent the last 30 years working on large architectural projects. First, with major global firms and then with his own small business.
DENNIS BELFIORE, OWNER, BELFIORE ARCHITECTS: I wanted to be much more involved with full dimensions of the projects and the business part of what we do and in my own way have been able to find projects that I find just as interesting.
ROMANS: Belfiore was working on retirement homes, libraries and tropical resorts. But then the recession.
BELFIORE: A lot of work that we had cued up to start up wasn't really starting up. For most of 2008, we were in a subsidy mode. I guess you call it being in the red.
ROMANS: Belfiore laid off three workers. He cut pay for the remaining three staff by 25 percent. And he took out a second mortgage on his home. He had to find new projects or the firm would go out of business.
BELFIORE: Public work was going to be the area that I felt was going to be the beneficiary of these stimulus programs. So, we started looking at that much more aggressively. ROMANS: Belfiore landed a contract to inspect school buildings in New York City. It's completely different than a large architectural project he's used to. But the income keeps his company going so it will survive until the economy picks up.
BELFIORE: I never did anything quite like this, but it has a lot of the elements that are of interest to me and I'm glad I found it. It's an interesting thing to be doing.
ROMANS: Christine Romans, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: OK, it's rare working Saturday for Senators on Capitol Hill. We are monitoring the healthcare debate in the Senate right now; the Senate's 40 Republicans are unanimously opposed. We are going to listen in to what they have to say in a live briefing that is coming up in just a few minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: A special "AC 360" Investigation, Killings at the Canal: The Army Tape" premieres tonight at 8:00 Eastern Time. It's a story about the deaths of four Iraqi detainees. Was it murder carried out by U.S. troops or battlefield justice? Special Investigations Unit correspondent Abbie Boudreau has this preview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMIE LEAHY: Oh, wow.
ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Do you love it?
LEAHY: I do. It was the most beautiful thing I had seen and it just looked wonderful on. It's really good to see it again and it's kind of bitter sweet, but I know it's going to happen.
BOUDREAU: Life is on hold for Jamie Leahy.
LEAHY: I will wear it. I'm determined to wear it someday with him.
BOUDREAU: They were married by a Justice of the Peace when her husband was between deployments, but she wanted a traditional wedding, the beautiful gown, the big reception in her grandparents' backyard.
LEAHY: This is exactly where it's going to be. The ceremony over here with an arch. We were going to have round tables placed all around.
BOUDREAU: Did you ever have the ceremony and the reception?
LEAHY: No, we haven't yet because our plans were in February of 2008, so -- but the investigation started in January, so...
BOUDREAU (voice-over): Her husband, Sergeant Michael Leahy, a Purple Heart recipient and a medic, was charged with the unthinkable, premeditated murder. He was one of three Army sergeants accused in the execution of four Iraqi detainees and the dumping of their bodies into this canal. It was a secret he eventually would have to tell his wife. He described that conversation in this Army interrogation tape.
SGT. MICHAEL LEAHY, U.S. ARMY: I told her that -- I said, Honey, I'm going to tell you something, and I understand if you don't forgive me, but I'm not a good person because I murdered someone in Iraq. I killed someone in Iraq.
BOUDREAU (on camera): Did you ever think that your husband was capable of killing like this?
LEAHY: No, I didn't. That's why I'm trying to understand what was going on in his head, what was going on around him that could bring him to something -- a situation like that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: CNN first found out about the killings in an e-mail from a soldier. And earlier, I spoke with Abbie Boudreau about the investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
Abbie Boudreau joining us now from New York. So Abbie, you've spoken with the wives of three of the sergeants who were convicted in -- convicted of murder. Now, what about the other wives? Have you spoken to them? What are they saying?
BOUDREAU: Yes, we did speak to two of them, the other two, Kim Hatley and Johana Mayo. And Kim Hatley is the kind of woman, Fred, who just -- she just refuses to let herself cry, even in private, she says, because she needs to be strong for her husband. She needs to be strong for her 19-year-old son, who's fighting in Afghanistan.
And we talked to Johana Mayo, and she has an incredibly sad story. She's struggling to survive at this point. She has three young children ages ranging from 11 years old down to 15 months. This woman is legally blind. She cannot drive. She needed her husband to help around the house, to help her with everything. All three of these wives need their husbands home. It's going to be a long road ahead for all of them.
WHITFIELD: Well, we just saw a few clips from the Army interrogation tapes. What else can we expect to see on these tapes?
BOUDREAU: Well, you'll see how the soldiers detail the crime and how the crime unfolded and what led to them going to the canal in the first place. And the most important thing that you're going to see in some of these tapes is the fact that -- the reason why they did what they did. And that was the basis for the majority of this investigation, Fred.
WHITFIELD: And do these soldiers feel like that they were -- they were pushed to the brink?
BOUDREAU: Well, we examined the policy, and that -- part of that policy is why they think that they might have been pushed too far. These people felt as though they weren't just being asked to be soldiers, they were being asked to be soldiers and police officers. And that was the problem. And that's part of the frustration in the field for these men. We examined that whole aspect of this war in Iraq and how these people were being asked to be more than just soldiers but be police officers. Were they asking too much?
WHITFIELD: Overall, what has been the reaction from your digging on this story?
BOUDREAU: Well, we've had a huge reaction worldwide from people who say there's absolutely no justification for what happened in this case. And then, of course, we have heard from people who are empathetic, who said, I can understand what drove these men to their breaking points. And then there's a growing group of people, actually, who are saying that these men should not even be in prison anymore. They should be freed.
That's the beauty of this story is that people have been able to judge for themselves through our reporting. And that's what we hope, that by the end of this documentary, people will be able to form their own opinion on what should happen and the policies at play.
WHITFIELD: Abbie Boudreau in New York, thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
So was it murder or battlefield justice? See what CNN uncovers and decide for yourself. "Killings at the Canal: The Army Tapes," a special "AC360" investigation tonight and tomorrow night, 8:00 o'clock Eastern, only on CNN.
The case of a Wal-Mart line cutter. That verdict when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: A woman accused of cutting line at a Missouri Wal-Mart and igniting a racial firestorm in the process has taken an 11th-hour plea deal. Last night, the judge presiding over the Heather Ellis trial announced an agreement had been reached between the defense and prosecutors. It comes nearly three years after the defendant said race played a factor in a checkout line dust-up between her, other customers and police. She's now facing four days in jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORLEY SWINGLE, SPECIAL PROSECUTOR: The prosecution and the defense continued plea negotiations that had basically been going on for three years, and we reached an agreement where Heather Ellis pled guilty to the class A misdemeanor of resisting arrest and the class B misdemeanor peace disturbance.
HEATHER ELLIS, DEFENDANT: I was responsible for my actions, and I was able to say what I did wrong. And I think that it's important that everybody else step up to the plate and admit they're wrong, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: All right, now she's facing four days in jail, a year probation, instead of up to 15 years prior to that plea deal.
All right, let's now go to Capitol Hill, and what also we're hearing from now is -- while earlier, we heard that it's almost clinched that mostly all Democrats and two independents are voting in favor of a Senate health care reform proposal bill, they'll vote on it 8:00 o'clock tonight, now we're hearing from members of the Republican Party. Let's listen in right now to what they are saying and why they are not necessarily giving their full support to this proposal.
SEN. RICHARD BURR (R), NORTH CAROLINA: ... jobs. I mean, they -- they need a job. We're at 11 percent unemployment. So they look at this bill and they ask, How does it affect me? And I've got to look them honestly in the face, knowing that small business is the engine that's going to pull us out of this economic crisis. And I look at a bill that says, you know, if you're a small business and you can't compete and offer health care today, if you add your 51st employee, we're going to send you a tax bill of $38,258.
There's no incentive in this bill for small business to succeed. This bill is actually the cause, potentially, of a continuation of unemployment in this country because small business sees it as a limiting factor to them.
Two, I come from a state that probably has had more investment in the last 10 years in pharmaceuticals, vaccines, medical devices. It is the largest employer, when you look at health care, in my state of North Carolina. What do we do? We take those very crucial areas, those keys to our success to bring down the cost of health care by curing disease, by detecting early, by increasing the number of options that we have for treatment, and we automatically put a new tax on them.
To those who research, to those who develop, to those who manufacture, we tax their products, pharmaceuticals, biologics, medical devices. And I might also add it's somewhat ironic we also have just put a new tax on the vaccine for H1N1 in this bill at a time that we're struggling to try to get that supply out to America.
I guess I shouldn't be shocked, when you look at the bill, that you find the word "choice" only 40 times. You find the word "innovation" only 25 times. You find the word "competition" only 13 times. That's in stark contrast to the 4,677 times that you find "require" or "must" or "shall," or the 899 times that it refers to taxes or fees or revenues, or the 470 times that it refers to agency or department or bureau or commission or panel.
Fortunately (ph), what North Carolina has asked is, Is this really a health care reform bill? And the answer is it's not a health care reform bill, this is a layaway plan. This is the Harry Reid layaway plan for this holiday season, pay in for four years before you get the first benefit back out. And in four years, you'll find out exactly how expensive this plan was. Mike? SEN. MIKE JOHANNS (R), NEBRASKA: We all have received a lot of calls and letters about this bill, and I would say today, easily, well, over the last weeks, our calls have been about 90 to 1 in opposition to the legislation. I pulled out a letter, a quote from somebody that comes out of a rural area in Nebraska. And this is what this person wants me to be aware of tonight at about 8:00 o'clock, when we cast our vote.
This person says, "For the first time in my career, I am honestly questioning how much longer I can continue to constantly be up against regulations and funding (ph) when (ph) all you want to do is make a difference in someone's life is (ph) exhausting," unquote.
You see, ladies and gentlemen, in all states, we have rural areas. In a state like Nebraska, the majority of our hospitals are small hospitals. They're 25 bed and under. They're called Rural Critical Access hospitals. And I visit these hospitals. The communities take a lot of pride because they know if the hospital closes, the community is in very serious trouble of closing, literally, itself.
And I go to these hospitals. They've done fund drives. They've done bake sales. They've done everything to try to support these little community facilities. And I always ask the same questions. I ask, If you could keep this hospital open on Medicaid reimbursement rates, can you do that? And they say, Well, no, we would go broke. Thirty-five percent to forty percent of our docs in the United States don't even take Medicaid because the reimbursement rates are so bad.
WHITFIELD: All right, you're listening there to Nebraska senator Mike Johanns there, and before that, Senator Richard Burr, as well as Senator Mitch McConnell, these Republicans expressing that they do not plan to vote in favor of moving forward with any debate on this proposed health care reform bill that is now in the U.S. Senate. Eight o'clock tonight will be the vote.
So far, it appears as though there are 60 votes, the 60 votes that are needed in order to move forward, all of them Democrats, two independents. But again, the official vote is tonight at 8:00 PM. And right now, you're hearing from Republicans who are saying they don't think this health care reform plan is a good idea. They still believe it is too expensive. And you heard from Senator Johanns there, who was saying that he's heard from many of his constituents who 90 to 1 are in opposition of this legislation.
We're going to continue to follow the developments there on Capitol Hill throughout the day. Right now, we're going to take a short break.
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WHITFIELD: This lovely Saturday means a lot of folks are outside, want to enjoy the weather, if they can. But not if you're in the UK, Jacqui Jeras in the Severe Weather Center, broadening our horizons, telling us now just about what's happening in our own back yard but over there, too. JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. You know, it's very extreme. You know, we don't talk a lot about international weather, Fredricka, but when it's something this big, certainly, we want to tell you about it.
There's been an incredible amount of flooding that's been going on into the northern UK. They are getting more rain here today. And unfortunately, they're getting more rain here today. They had record rainfall, the most rain ever recorded in a 24-hour period, near Cockermouth, England. They had more than a foot of rain in that time. It flooded numerous homes, more than 1,300. There you can see a road washed out. Unfortunately, a police officer lost his life when he was trying to direct traffic around a bridge. The bridge washed out, along with the police officer at the time. Search and rescues have been taking place here, and another two inches of rain in the forecast today. The rivers are starting to go down, so that's a little bit of good news. Hopefully, the rain won't be quite as bad as the last time around.
Now, back here at home, we've been dealing with heavy rainfall, especially right along the I-10 corridor. We've been watching south central parts of Louisiana, where we've been seeing some of the heaviest rain. You can expect to see a good inch or so in this area.
One other hotspot in the country, in addition to the lower Mississippi River valley, is the Pacific Northwest. We're seeing some rain in the valleys here. Seattle, it's going to be a washout of a week for you, rain each and every day, unfortunately. The higher elevations, heavy snow, great for you who want to ski, perhaps, as we head into this holiday week.
As we look at the big picture, our next storm in the Pacific is making its way towards the coast. This is going to stick with us throughout the weekend, bringing windy conditions to kick off the work week. Great weather for you travelers in the upper Midwest, as well as into the East. We'll be watching our souther (ph) low track towards the East throughout the weekend. So watch for places like Birmingham, Atlanta, even up towards Charlotte to start to get in on some of this rain.
And if you are trying to travel right now, good news, hurray, no airport delays, at least not at this time. But we are looking at some slow traffic. You can see the all red dots here around New Orleans because of some of that rain, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: All right, messy stuff. Thank you, Jacqui.
The mammogram debate, a few things women might want to consider before making up their minds about getting the exam. We'll hear from our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
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WHITFIELD: agreed? A confusing week for women? A controversial new report recommends that women begin routine mammograms at age 50 rather than 40. I recently talked about this issue with CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
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WHITFIELD: Agreed? It's been a confusing week for women? A controversial new report recommends that women begin routine mammograms at age 50, rather than 40. I recently talked about this issue with CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
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New guidelines on breast cancer screenings have left a lot of women very upset, and actually rather confused. So what do they really mean for you and me? Dr. Sanjay Gupta again this hour, answering your questions. So lots of questions coming from Twitter, blog, et cetera. Let's get straight to some of them. This first one from (ph) Lucy Marion, who's a member of a task force, "says false positives are harmful. How?"
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So this is interesting. Lucy Marion is one of members of the task force. What the concern is, that if you get a mammogram and you have what's known as a false positive, so an abnormality is found, it's going to cause anxiety and it may cause you to get a biopsy to sort of figure that out, but in the end, it ends up being nothing.
WHITFIELD: Everything's all right.
GUPTA: So it's like that concern period, you know, the anxiety and also the procedure of biopsy, that's potentially a harm in someone, as compared to someone who did not get the mammogram. The flip side of that, of course, and I think what most people sort of come to, is, But wait a second, you might find cancer early, and that could lead to -- more likely to save your life. So this is sort of the...
WHITFIELD: That's the whole purpose of the mammogram.
GUPTA: Yes, you would think. And this -- but this is one of those age-old sort of issues, Fred, between -- between public health risk versus individual risk. And this comes up in a big way with mammograms, but it's come up in a lot of different ways with other screening tests, as well.
WHITFIELD: OK. And second question coming from Twitter. "Are new mammography guidelines a cost-cutting measure?" And I think a lot of people thought immediately, Wait a minute, is that really at the bottom -- or the bottom line here?
GUPTA: Of all this. Yes. And we asked the same question, as well, and if you talk to the folks on the task force, they say, We have nothing to do with cost or insurance coverage. Kathleen Sebelius says, you know, Fred, came out yesterday, from HHS, and said, This is not going to dictate policy for insurance policies or for the government. So "no" is the sort of answer that we're hearing.
But let me put it to you like this. If -- out of 1,900 mammograms that are performed in women in this age group, between 40 and 49, a life is saved. That's the math, 1,900 mammograms equals one life saved. Mammogram costs anywhere between 100 and 150 bucks, but $190,000 or so to save one life. I mean, that's sort of what this comes down to, if you do the math.
WHITFIELD: Wow.
GUPTA: And you know, for a lot of people, they say, Well, that's well worth it. Others people say, Well, we need to save money. So again, it depends on your prism and how you look at this.
WHITFIELD: OK. And this final question coming from our bloggers, Linda writing, "I'd like to know how many women served on this government panel that came up with this mammogram decision."
GUPTA: I guess that's a fair question.
WHITFIELD: Wondering about the sensitivity of this.
GUPTA: The sensitivity is -- right, is high, I think, among all people. But this -- there was -- there was eight, which is exactly half. So half men, half women. And they come up with all -- from all sorts of different, varied backgrounds. There are a lot of various- themed (ph) health care professionals. None were oncologists or cancer specialists. But again, this is a panel that comes up with recommendations for prostate cancer, heart disease, breast cancer, so all sorts of different things. But it was eight and -- you know, again, they are considered sort of the gold standard when it comes to this sort of -- sort of thing.
WHITFIELD: So the panel had to have anticipated there would be this alarm or confusion that would follow this, when for so long we've all been conditioned to believe, you know, 40 and over, unless there are other, you know...
GUPTA: Risk factors.
WHITFIELD: ... preexisting conditions or risk factors maybe earlier.
GUPTA: You would think that they would have anticipated this. But here's the thing that's still confusing to me as a doctor because the bottom line that they always say is, Talk to your doctor first before getting the mammogram. So I'm a doctor, and I -- you know, I've read all these guidelines. Here's the thing. Seventy-five to ninety percent of women who are diagnosed with breast cancer had no risk factors and had no family history.
WHITFIELD: Oh, boy!
GUPTA: They should probably still be getting mammograms. And that's sort of the bottom line.
WHITFIELD: And that's what a lot of women want to hear.
GUPTA: Right. And so the bottom line, 40 years old, every year, mammogram. That's what most doctors are still going to say.
WHITFIELD: Interesting. It'll be interesting to see how many women subscribe to this new recommendation...
GUPTA: Right.
WHITFIELD: ... and how many will stick to what we've been conditioned to believe for so long.
GUPTA: That's right. It's a fascinating...
WHITFIELD: All right...
GUPTA: Yes.
WHITFIELD: ... Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
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So in the last hour, I talked to the executive director of the National Women's Health Network, and she actually supports the new guidelines.
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CINDY PEARSON, EX. DIR., NATIONAL WOMEN'S HEALTH NETWORK: The important thing to note is that in their 40s, some women will be found to have a breast cancer and treated for that breast cancer that never would have killed them, that might have actually even gone away on its own. Now, no one who's been treated for breast cancer could possibly believe she was the one who didn't need the treatment, and I wouldn't try to tell a woman that, either. But if you look at the big studies, that's what they show.
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WHITFIELD: In contrast, the American Cancer Society says the new recommendation from the government panel sends the wrong message to women.
All right, don't forget, if you have any personal finance questions that you can actually ask the Dolans right here live on television. They're going to be joining us in a few minutes to answer some of your questions that we're already starting to see on my blog at CNN.com/Fredricka or FaceBook or comments that are also going to our Josh Levs, too. Josh is at CNN.com/josh. All of them, Josh, Karen and Daria -- and Ken, that is, they'll all be joining us about 20 minutes from now to discuss all your comments and your concerns straight ahead.
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