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Senate Votes to Begin Debate on Health Care
Aired November 21, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Don Lemon, right to Capitol Hill for you tonight.
Two weeks ago, it was the House passing health care reform late into the night on a weekend. We were sitting right here. Now, it is the Senate. And it is not voting on a bill, per se, but one hour from now, senators will decide whether to begin debate on the details of the bill.
Tonight's vote represents a major test for Majority Leader Harry Reid. Can he keep Democrats united in the face of certain GOP opposition?
Here's what it takes. It takes 60 votes to stop a filibuster, and Reid -- well, he needs to lock in those votes before doing anything else. Sixty "yes" votes will mean the debate on the health care reform bill can officially begin.
That bill covers 2,074 pages. It proposes to expand health care coverage to an additional 31 million Americans, at a cost of $848 billion. And it's supposed to do it over 10 years.
CNN has the best political team on television to bring you everything you need to know about tonight's vote. There they are. All lined up there.
Our senior congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, this is her beat. She's joining us from Capitol Hill. Senior White House correspondent Ed Henry is in our Washington bureau tonight, along with CNN political editor Mark Preston.
Good to see you all. Have lots of notes from talking to you.
Dana, I want to begin with you because, you know, this is where you are every day, covering this. Lots of talk on the Senate floor from both sides, but two senators, in particular, stand out here. Earlier this evening, Majority Leader Harry Reid secured the 60 votes when key Democratic holdouts took to the floor.
Listen and we'll talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARY LANDRIEU (D), LOUISIANA: After a thorough review of the bill, as I said, over the last two and a half days, which included many lengthy discussions, I've decided that there are enough significant reforms and safeguards in this bill to move forward, but much more work needs to be done. SEN. BLANCHE LINCOLN (D), ARKANSAS: I will vote to support the -- will vote in support of cloture on the motion to proceed to this bill. But, Madam President, let me be perfectly clear, I am opposed to a new government administered health care plan as a part of comprehensive health insurance reform, and I will not vote in favor of the proposal that has been introduced by Leader Reid as it is written.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Dana, two holdouts, two critical "yes" votes. But -- I mean, it seems like they were -- did they say, "Yes, but"? Is that what that was?
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, but. That's a good way to put it, Don. Yes, they are going to vote "yes" in about, I guess, an hour from now to continue debate or to really get into the meat of what is on -- in the Senate bill and their leadership's bill and, more importantly, from the perspective of those two Democrats who are not very happy and made that very clear with many aspects of their party leadership's bill, they want to be able to change it.
And I thought that the -- really, the red flashing sign for the Democratic leadership and for the president was what you just heard at the end of Senator Lincoln's statement was very clear. She does not and will not support a so-called public option or a government-run health care option that is currently in the bill. She is determined to change that. So is Mary Landrieu. And so are some other conservative Democrats.
So, that just gives you a signal and a sign of the fact that yes, they are going to be able to move forward. That is a big accomplishment and is a reason to celebrate for Democrats, but it is not the end of the road at all.
LEMON: OK. Dana, stand by.
Dana's going to join us throughout the hour here, probably a little bit longer in the hour, because we're going to carry this live until this vote happens -- very important for the country. Our senior congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, is standing by there on Capitol Hill for us.
Now I want to go to -- let's go to our White House correspondent, Mr. Ed Henry. He is one of our players tonight as well. Bring him into the discussion.
Ed, you know, the president's got a lot at stake tonight. You were recently traveling with him overseas. I'm not sure if he talked about this issue while you were there, but I would understand -- I imagine you're hearing from administration officials tonight about this.
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I am -- I am, Don. In fact, a couple days ago, I interviewed the president in China. I asked him about health care reform. He said that despite all the road bumps they've been facing, he's still confident that he can get this through the Senate by the end of the year.
As Dana's pointing out, there's still a lot of work to be done before that becomes a reality. And they're keeping it in check at the White House tonight.
I just spoke a little while ago to a top White House adviser who was pointing out, his words exactly were, quote, "The baton has officially been passed." Meaning, this is a procedural matter. It looks like it's going through with the 60 votes in an hour or so, but there's a lot more work to be done in the Senate, so they don't want to celebrate yet.
You'll remember a couple weeks ago when the underlying bill did actually pass through the House. The president was on the House side of the Capitol, lobbying members. He was also out in the Rose Garden that day, really pushing this along.
Today, he's been playing golf. He was staying out of sight. That's because they're saving him until the actual underlying bill here in the Senate comes up. That's when you bring out your big guns.
But the bottom line is: this procedural hurdle tonight, it means it's more likely the president's going to get this done. It means it's more likely that millions of more people are going to have health insurance, who don't have it tonight. And it also means that it's more likely that these preexisting conditions that people have been so angry about will be wiped out so that it will not prevent you from getting health insurance in the future.
So, there's miles to go, but this is a big step forward for this president.
LEMON: Miles and miles to go. As they say, miles to go before we sleep, right? Stand by, Ed Henry.
He's going to join us throughout the hour as well until this vote is done. We're going to have the best political team on television.
Another member of the best political team on television is Mr. Mark Preston. Mark is our political editor here.
Mark, so good to see you. We're usually talking on Sunday night. I've got to ask you this. You heard what Ed said. This is -- it has never gotten this far when it comes to health care reform legislation. So the administration has to feel -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- some degree of success with this?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. You know, I think the administration does because, look -- they wanted to try to get this done by August. It has been pushed back to where we are now. And Ed is absolutely correct -- this is not going to happen right away. There are still many hurdles before any health care bill is actually approved.
I'll tell you, I was talking to a Republican strategist about an hour ago. This strategist said to me, "You know, I find this debate so interesting because the Democrats feel that if they pass something, they win in the 2010 midterm elections. They have an issue." He said, "The problem with that is that us, Republicans, we believe the same thing. If Democrats pass something, then we win in the 2010 elections."
So, really, for Republicans, you won't hear them talk about health care. This is not an issue of health care for them, Don. You're going to hear Republicans talk about this being an economic issue and a jobs issue. So, they're putting a big price tag on this health care bill. And as much as we talk about policy, this is very much about politics.
LEMON: You know, it's very interesting, Mark, because I've been watching this. I've never watched so much of the Senate, you know, than the last couple of weeks, the Senate and the House, watching these things. And, you know, any one of you can pick this up, Dana, Ed or Mark.
Not quite as many antics as in the House. We didn't see children this time. But we did see, you know, people carrying the bill, how big the bill is, and talking about other things.
Dana, you're actually there. Did you -- have you gone in? Have you had a chance to go in and look from the -- what is it -- the terrace there, they call it, or the balcony?
BASH: Right.
LEMON: The gallery, the gallery.
BASH: The gallery, the gallery. You know, not today inside, but I have been in and around the chamber talking to senators all day long, as they've been coming in and out.
And you mentioned -- let's just take, for example, what we have seen throughout the day, which is Republicans holding up the bill. We saw those same antics -- to use your word -- in the House from Republicans.
And what's the message there? What are they trying to do? Well, to Mark Preston's point, what they are trying to show is: look how big this is. What this represents is the government taking over health care. It is an illustration -- they think -- to hit the point that, is that pressure point, especially with some of the voters out there, constituents...
LEMON: Well, Dana...
BASH: ... in states where, you know, Mary Landrieu and Blanche Lincoln are from where they're really getting pressured to vote against this.
LEMON: Hey, I want to tell you, we're waiting on -- Republican Senator John Barrasso is going to join us in a little bit. So, we're waiting for him to get miked up and we'll ask him some of these questions, some of these points you're raising. We'll talk to him about that.
So, Dana, or, Ed, or, Mark, whoever wants to jump in, you know, raise your hand first. When you look at the size of the bill, is it really as significant as they are playing it up to be? Because -- I mean, do you -- would you rather have a bill that gets everything in and that makes every point, or do you want a short bill and then the criticism might be -- I'm just being devil's advocate here -- oh, well, this was missed, that was missed, because a bill isn't intricate or specific enough?
HENRY: Well, if I can jump in on that point, if you go to the White House blog tonight, the communication director there, Dan Pfeiffer, has been posting things, as this debate goes on. They're obviously watching it very closely, what happens in the Senate over at the White House. And he's got a chart up there that basically -- and I've got it in front of me here -- that basically says, OK, the Senate bill may be 2,074 pages, but the Medicare prescription drug plan that Republicans passed under George W. Bush in 2003, that was 1,044 pages. That was something Republicans held up as a major achievement.
And so, you're right. I mean, the bottom line is that to one person, it might be a behemoth, a monstrosity as some Republicans have called it, but to Democrats who support this, they're saying, "Look, if you go into the details of this and the actual substance of it, beyond just, you know, the prop of holding up a big bill."
Dan Pfeiffer's also posting at the White House blog right now, on page 78, if you dig into the details, you'll learn -- he says, quote, "that the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act ends discrimination based on preexisting conditions." On page 17, it makes preventative care completely free with no cost sharing.
The White House pointing out there's been a big debate in the last few days about mammograms, preventive care such as that, all of the sudden, things like that will be free if this actually passes and becomes law.
So, for one side -- obviously, the Republicans want to make their political points, that they think this is too weighty, too much detail, and the government takeover -- as Dana and Mark suggested, they're making that argument.
But on the other hand, Democrats are saying -- as you pointed out, Don -- if you're going to do the job right, you are going to have to go into detail and certainly when the Republicans wanted to expand Medicare a few years ago for senior citizens, they had a pretty big bill of over 1,000 pages as well.
LEMON: And I want to get Mark Preston in here. He's champing at the bit. Mark, what do you want to say?
PRESTON: Well, Don, you know, I -- two points about this, you know? And Dana has seen this all day on the floor. You've had Republicans holding up the bill, talk about it being 2,000 pages.
The first point is, what I think the Republicans are trying to do is try to compare it to the IRS Tax Code. We haven't heard that correlation, but what they're trying to show is that the government is getting too big. And as Dana says -- that the government is trying to control health care. And we know that people are fed up with all the regulations that we see with the IRS.
Second point of it is, I think, Republicans, when they're holding up that bill -- you know, you're absolutely right, there's no way that you can overhaul health care without really fine-tuning it. It might take 2,000 pages. However, what Republicans are saying is that they haven't had enough time to actually review the 2,000 pages of this health care bill because Democrats are under an incredible amount of pressure to try to get this passed by the end of the year.
LEMON: All right. Mark Preston, Ed Henry -- do we still have our Dana Bash?
BASH: I'm here.
LEMON: And Dana Bash is still there. Well, Dana, we know that you have to go.
This is a huge network. Dana has to do a live shot for CNN International, and she's going to join us in just a little bit.
So, go take care of CNN International, Dana.
BASH: See you soon.
LEMON: And we'll see you on the other side of that.
OK. We're waiting word from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. He's going to come out and speak about this health care reform bill on the Senate floor in just a little bit. So, when he comes out, we're going to carry that live for you.
You're looking live right now at Wyoming Republican John Barrasso speaking on the Senate floor -- I'm sorry, Michael Enzi. Sorry. I'm looking at Barrasso in the preview monitor.
Put Mr. Barrasso up
There he is right there. Mr. Barrasso is going to join us on the other side of the break. And that is Michael Enzi speaking on the floor. Pardon me for getting my monitors mixed up here. We're going to see you in just a little bit, sir.
Also, we want to know what's on your mind tonight. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, iReport.com -- that's how you can get on the air.
We're back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. There you go. Live on the Senate floor.
This time, let me get it right. It is Mr. Enzi, Michael Enzi, Wyoming senator. He's the senior senator there.
So, let's bring in the junior senator from Wyoming. His name is John Barrasso.
Thank you, sir. It's a busy night for you and you've got lots of work to do and you've decided to come and talk to us. So, we're happy about that.
Your issue -- we were, in the 5:00 hour, I was talking to you during the break. And I saw you talking on the Senate floor. And just as you were talking on the Senate floor, we were having a discussion about the new breast cancer -- the mammogram recommendations, and you said you were talking about that. I didn't hear you.
But what was your point?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R), WYOMING: Well, my wife, Bobbi, is a breast cancer survivor, and we made the diagnosis as a result of a screening mammogram in her 40s. She was in her 40s when that happened. And she's had three operations, two bouts of chemotherapy. She's been through the whole thing. If it wasn't for that screening mammogram, she would not be with us today six years later as a breast cancer survivor.
So, for a government panel, this preventive task force, to say we should not do these screening mammograms for women in their 40s, even though we know it saves one woman for every 1,900 women who are being screened, I think, is wrong. And people say, "Well, that won't affect anything" -- it does.
If you go to -- if you go to the bill page 1,150, it says that task force is supposed to then, through the secretary of health and human services, spend money to educate America as to what their guidelines are, even though I believe those guidelines deny treatment to people. And then on page 1,918 -- I'm sorry -- 1,190, it says, "Do not pay for those preventive services unless the preventive task force says they're good." The preventive task force says they're bad.
So, all of these women in America would have been denied that service, and those women will be dead.
LEMON: OK. Let me jump in here because this proposed legislation now, none of those recommendations that came out last week when it comes to mammograms, it's not in this legislation. Health and human services secretary came out last week and said women should do exactly what they have been doing. These are just suggestions, and they are some guidelines for certain companies. But this is not in the legislation.
So, why bring it up on the -- on the Senate floor?
BARRASSO: It is in the legislation. You turn to page 1,190, I don't believe the secretary got that far in the bill. I don't believe she was there waiting for it to come out the other night, reading through it. She can say what she wants. You go to that page -- it says that the secretary will not pay for services. Even for people that are covered under all these different government plans, they will not cover those services. They're only supposed to do things that this -- that this preventive task force says they should pay for. And that's absolutely wrong.
This is a government panel that's making decisions. And this is, to me, the first sign of what's going to happen with rationed care in America. But there's a lot more wrong with this bill.
LEMON: And let me...
BARRASSO: This is a bill that raises taxes. It's going to cause premiums to go up for people that have insurance, who like what they have, and it's going to cut Medicare.
LEMON: If you'll just let me get in here, because there are certain specific points that I want to talk to you about.
BARRASSO: Sure.
LEMON: I understand that, you know, this is your passion. You've been dealing with this. But I want to talk to you about abortion. There was a lot of debate back-and-forth about abortion today, talking about the Stupak Amendment that was in the House bill and then, talking about the Hyde language that's always been, as part of the health care here.
What is the concern here? The concern is that this will fund abortions when right-to-life advocates don't believe in it, and those companies will have to pay for them anyway.
BARRASSO: Taxpayer dollars should not go to pay for abortions. They're going to work through all the language of this. Fundamentally, taxpayer money should not be used to pay for abortions, period.
LEMON: OK. I'll let you make one other point. You were going on and talking about the costs here. Eight hundred...
BARRASSO: Costs are dramatic.
LEMON: ... or close to $900 billion. But Republicans are saying $2.5 trillion. Do you believe that it's that much?
BARRASSO: Well, it's a lot more than the number that Harry Reid says. That's gimmicky numbers. They're not going to start providing the services until five years from now, until the year 2014.
They're going to start collecting taxes immediately. That's how they make the numbers work for them. They're going to raise the taxes immediately. They're going to cut Medicare immediately. And they're not going to start providing the kind of services that they're talking about and the subsidies until 2014.
So, that's the way that you play with the numbers. There's a lot of gimmicks. Right now, across America, a majority of the people, as they learn more about this bill, are opposed to it. A majority of Americans are opposed to it, and only about one in three of Americans support it.
Americans are worried about the economy -- 10.2 percent unemployment. That's what we ought to be focusing on. There are things that we can do for health care reform, and those are the things that need to get down the cost of care. That is the big problem.
But even as the dean of Harvard Medical School said -- he said, "I give this whole thing a failing grade." People that support this are living in collective denial. This is going to raise the cost of care, raise premiums for people who have insurance, make it more expensive to pay for that insurance, and it's going to cut Medicare for our seniors who need that.
LEMON: Senator, I want to get one more point in here -- and I'm really, I'm up against a break here -- that I want you to talk about. And not that you're doing this, but through -- you know, let's cut through the rhetoric and all of that. Americans need health care reform in some fashion or (INAUDIBLE).
BARRASSO: Absolutely. Absolutely.
LEMON: So, then, what -- then what is the compromise here? How do we work together to get everyone health care? I should say, "How do you," because I'm not voting there.
But how do you work together, Republicans and Democrats, to get this done? Is it the cost? Is it the public option? What is it? Is it all those things? Because it seems like no one is trying to compromise in order to get this -- to get this passed for the American people.
BARRASSO: If you let Americans buy insurance across state lines, 12 million more Americans would have insurance today than have it right now. We need an individual incentive to let people stay healthy because half of all the money we spend in this country on health care is spent on people that eat too much, exercise too little, and smoke. But there are no personal, individual incentives in here for somebody to stay healthy.
LEMON: Are you -- are you willing to do that, though? Are you willing to compromise? Because you may have to give up some things in order to get this passed.
BARRASSO: Well, yes. I mean, I think we need to deal with junk lawsuits, but that's not anywhere in here. I think they ought to do a loser pay system. That's, you know, not likely to be in any of these bills and I understand that. But we need to get coverage for people, but we all fend for the people that don't have coverage, we need to get it. We need to make sure that people with preexisting conditions can still buy insurance.
LEMON: OK. BARRASSO: But, fundamentally, you don't want to raise the premiums and the expenses for people that do have insurance. That's their big concern. And that's where the president started all this.
LEMON: And, Senator...
BARRASSO: We need to get the costs under control.
LEMON: We're going to have to leave it there. Thank you. I appreciate your time. And if I don't see you after the vote, Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family, OK?
BARRASSO: Thank you very much. You, too.
LEMON: All right.
Hey, we're waiting the vote, of course, and also awaiting the minority leader, Mitch McConnell. He's going to come out and speak, and also, Majority Leader Harry Reid will speak in just a minute.
On the other side of the break, we're going to hear from a Democrat, Senator Debbie Stabenow.
Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK. Senator Debbie Stabenow of Michigan is joining us live now.
So, obviously, you're going to be in the "yes" column. You were listening to my interview. You were standing right next to Senator Barrasso.
SEN. DEBBIE STABENOW (D), MICHIGAN: Right.
LEMON: And you said, "What bill was he reading?" That's what you say.
STABENOW: Well, I was extremely surprised, Don. First of all, the AARP has sent a very strong letter supporting a "yes" vote moving forward tonight. And we all know that they wouldn't be doing that if we were cutting Medicare. In fact, we're strengthening Medicare for the future. And I certainly wouldn't be supporting this bill if it was doing what he said about mammograms.
What we have right now is insurance companies decide whether or not a woman has mammogram coverage, whether or not she has maternity care coverage or any other coverage. And the average woman is paying 49 percent more than her male counterpart for the same coverage or less in the individual insurance market. So, what we're doing is making mammograms, maternity care, basic health coverage in the basic health plan.
And just as we've seen, President Bush came forward with -- I should say -- a panel appointed by President Bush came forward, making a recommendation which has been rejected by the secretary of health and human services. And, in fact, we say in the legislation that any recommendations from advisory panels would not affect the decisions about coverage.
LEMON: OK. So, listen, Senator Barrasso said that in the recommendations about mammograms -- let me sit up straight or I'll be out of the picture -- that the recommendations about mammograms were definitely in this bill, and he gave a page number. Those recommendations or similar type language not in the bill? Are you saying -- is that what you're saying?
STABENOW: What I'm saying is there are advisory panels, absolutely. And we want doctors and patients to have the very best information. And there are advisory panels that will share information. But that is different than saying that women aren't going to be able to get mammogram coverage or that it will be mandatory or that somehow it will change what the coverage is.
For the majority of women today who get their insurance through the private individual market, they don't get mammograms at all. It's not covered. Maternity care is not covered.
Women have more to gain by health care reform that increases their coverage and brings down their costs than men do.
And so, I just reject the way he put it together.
LEMON: You know, I was listening to you and you're saying some other things -- as I got home last night, I turned on the television, and I just watched the Senate floor last night. And I listened -- and there was a very impassioned, I think, one of the most passionate so far that I've seen for this legislation was Senator Barbara Boxer last night, talking about -- and I -- maybe -- I don't know when she started, but maybe she kicked off this debate last night.
Were you there? Did you hear her talk about this? And that's when I started watching it after that. And just one got better after the other, people who were for and against it. But did you get to watch her last night when she talked about that?
STABENOW: I did not. But Senator Boxer is very impassioned and very committed. She's one of our very strong voices both for women and for affordable health care for everyone.
And I think, Don, what you are hearing and will continue to hear is that we are unified in moving forward to save lives, save money, to protect Medicare and to stop insurance abuses. That's what this is all about. The status quo is not working for people. And frankly, coming from a state where we care a lot about jobs, doing nothing will unfortunately create another loss of 3.5 million jobs at least over the next 10 years.
So, doing nothing as being proposed by our colleagues who won't even vote to have the debate -- I mean, tonight's not the final vote. Tonight is a vote about whether you not -- whether or not you think that business as usual for insurance companies is OK. We think it's not OK.
This is a vote about going to the bill and debating the bill. And people will have honest differences. I have things that I would love to see improved upon.
But I believe the status quo means we're going to lose jobs. People are going to continue to lose their coverage because they can't afford it or their company can't afford it. And we are losing lives. Forty- five thousand people last year...
LEMON: Senator...
STABENOW: ... lost their lives because they couldn't find affordable health insurance.
LEMON: Senator Stabenow, on the other side, just as an impassioned speech by Jeff Sessions today that I watched talking about the public option, especially about abortion, and it appears that there are very legitimate concerns on both sides. And, you know, I asked the senator before you about -- Senator Barrasso, what is the ultimate compromise here? And, you know, I wrote this question down because I wanted to ask you. With the help of one of our - one of the best political team on television, I just want to make sure, at the end of the day, they're going to have to scale back the public option. And I know that you guys have been talking about it. You were talking about it with Senator Snowe who is a Republican.
SEN. DEBBIE STABENOW (D), MICHIGAN: Right.
LEMON: Your idea for a trigger instead, do you think that this will have to be the ultimate compromise here, scaling back the public option?
Well, it's certainly an important part. Now, understand, most people have insurance through their employer. We're talking about less than 20 percent of the public that's working today through a small business or on their own or multiple part-time jobs who would be given the opportunity to go into this new insurance pool so they could get the same kind of rates as big business gets. And one of their choices would be a public insurance option that would compete with the for- profit companies to bring down costs. I believe in some form that needs to be there. We can't say to folks, you have to have insurance.
LEMON: But some form the White House --
STABENOW: And not afford it.
LEMON: The White House administration never said some form of a public option when they started out, they said they wanted a public option. Is this likely to - I mean, this could infuriate the Democratic base when it comes to that because all along the White House, again, the administration, said they wanted - hey, Mitch McConnell is speaking. I'm sorry to cut you off right here. We're going to get back to you, if we can get you back. If you can hang around. Thank you so much.
STABENOW: Sure.
LEMON: We want to get to the floor and we want to listen to Senator McConnell.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: They've seen the bill, the Democratic leaders want to impose upon us. And they want to know where the rest of us will stand. This bill itself is a massive monument to bureaucracy and spending. But at its core, it's really quite simple. At a moment when more than one out of 10 working Americans is looking for a job, at a time when the Chinese are lecturing us about our debt, this bill.
This bill right here, costs $2.5 trillion the government doesn't have. And cannot afford. It imposes punishing taxes on almost everyone. It raises health insurance premiums on the 85 million Americans who already have health insurance. And if that were not bad enough, it slashes Medicare by $500 billion. Anyone who votes aye tonight, Mr. President, is voting for all of these things.
Now, Mr. President, it is a fact, a vote in favor of proceeding to this bill is a vote in favor of adding to the tax burden of the American people in the midst of double-digit unemployment. A vote in favor of proceeding to this bill is a vote to raise health insurance premiums on people who were told - they were told that they could expect their health insurance costs to go down.
A vote in favor of proceeding to this bill is a vote in favor of deep cuts to Medicare for tens of millions of seniors, who depend on it totally. A vote to proceed to this bill is a vote to continue the completely out-of-control-spending binge Congress has been on all year. A vote in favor of this bill tells every American family sitting in a waiting room tonight, wondering when they'll get to see a doctor or how much it's going to cost. It's not our concern.
And worst of all, a vote in favor of this bill is a vote in favor of the spending binge that's leading to a massive and unsustainable, long-term debt that will shackle our children to a future they can't afford. That's what tonight's vote is all about. If it wasn't, none of us would be here on a Saturday night with the nation watching and waiting to see what we do here.
They're watching because they know that none of this, none of this, is inevitable. All it takes is one vote. Just one. The simple math is this. If there were one Democrat, just one, of our friends on the other side of the aisle, just one, who would say no tonight, none of this would happen. The voices of the American people would be heard. We've seen all the surveys. We know how they feel.
If just one democrat were to say no tonight, he'd be saying no to the premium increases. No to the tax cuts. No to the Medicare cuts. Just one. On the other side of the aisle. And then we could start over with a common-sense, step-by-step approach to fix the problem. That got us here in the first place, and that was that health care costs too much.
And Mr. President, the sad irony of this whole debate, the problem that got us here, is that health care costs are out of control. And yet the neutral, non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, the score keeper around here, says that under this bill, this massive bill, health care costs are actually going to go up, not down. And the American people thought that's what this whole debate was about in the first place.
So 2,074 pages and trillions of dollars later, 2,074 pages and trillions of dollars later, this bill doesn't even meet the basic goal that the American people ha in mind and what they thought this debate was all about, to lower costs. This bill will actually make the situation worse. And now we're about to vote on it.
Now, we've heard some senators come to the floor today and say that they oppose this bill, but they don't want to stop the debate. They oppose the bill, but they don't want to stop the debate. Mr. President, nobody's suggesting we stop the debate. No one. Not a single senator on this side of the aisle have I heard suggest that we stop the debate. But if we don't stop this bill tonight, the only debate we'll be having, the only debate we'll be having is about higher premiums, not savings for the American people, higher taxes instead of lower costs, and cuts to Medicare rather than improving seniors' care.
That's what the debate will be about. Now, the American people, and 40 of us in this room, sitting on this side of the aisle, are not asking to end the debate. That's not what we have in mind. To end the debate. What we want to do is change the debate. Not end it, change it. Because once we get on this bill, ladies and gentlemen, the basic dimensions will not change. The basic dimensions will not change.
So I ask, why should we consider a bill we already know the American people oppose? This is not anything anybody's in doubt about. The American people think if you don't like this bill, you've got an obligation to try to stop it. And that opportunity will come at 8:00. Now, I'm sure this won't come as a surprise to any member of the Senate, but it's going to take 60 votes to change this bill. That means the bill is introduced, this thing we're looking at right here, will fundamentally be the bill we'll be asked to pass sometime in the future. That is a fact.
Now, after tonight's vote, we'll all go home and face our constituents. We'll have to tell them how we voted on raising their premiums, raising their taxes, and cutting their Medicare. For some of us, that's not going to be a very easy conversation. But it doesn't have to be that way. If you really want to lower costs and premiums, then we can work together step by step and pass the common- sense reforms the American people have been asking for all along.
We can end junk lawsuits against doctors and hospitals which drive up costs. We can encourage healthy choices like prevention and wellness programs which hold down costs. We can lower costs by letting consumers buy coverage across state lines. We can allow small businesses to band together to get lower insurance rates. And certainly we can address the rampant, absolutely rampant, waste, fraud and abuse that drive up costs. All of those, my colleagues, are changes worth making. The American people are looking at the Senate tonight. They are hoping we say no to this bill. So we can start on a better plan that fixes the problem that the American people care about most, and that is costs. They want us to start over. There's nothing about this massive bill that they like.
They want us to start over. They want us to address their real concerns. All it would take, Mr. President and my colleagues, is just one member of the other side of the aisle. Just one. To give us an opportunity not to end the debate but to change the debate in the direction the American people would like us to go. I yield the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Majority leader.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My dear friend -
LEMON: All right. that was Senate minority leader - so we were going to take a break, but we're going to listen to the majority leader now, Harry Reid, and this is his bill. And we're going to listen to him. We'll be back with you in a moment.
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: ... except in the mind of a few people who don't understand this legislation. Now, Mr. President, for 200 years, we've styled ourselves, the world's greatest deliberative body, deliberation necessarily implies discussion and great issues, necessarily require great debate.
Today we vote on whether to even discuss one of the greatest issues of our generation, indeed, one of the greatest issues this body has ever faced. Whether this nation will finally guarantee its people right to live free from fear of illness and death which can be prevented by decent health care for all. In the coming weeks, we'll finally put people, not insurance companies, in charge of their lives. The road to this point has been started many times. It has never been completed, merging two such large and consequential bills has never been done before.
It's been an enormous undertaking, and we would not be in the position without the unflagging dedication of many senators and extremely loyal staff members. The top of the list are Chairman Baucus and Dodd who have shown dedication, determination in recent weeks and months that's rarely been seen. I'm proud of every single senator's input and especially proud of the two most recent classes of senators, elected with strong mandates for progress. They've demonstrated a studious approach to our historic endeavor and an unwavering belief that all Americans should be able to afford to live a healthy life.
Mr. President, I want to explain why we're holding this important vote at this hour. As a matter of principle, that I respect, the senior senator from Arkansas insisted that we vote not only after senators had the time - only after senators had the time to read and understand this bill. Senators all have now had ample time to do so. And that is because of the chairman of the Agriculture Committee, Senator Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas. Mr. President, as I have done many times this year, privately and personally as well as publicly, I again invite my colleagues, my Republican colleagues, join on the right side of history. I again invite them to join us at the very least in a debate about our future. Around dining room tables in Nevada and across the nation, families are agonizing over what to sacrifice next to buy health insurance. They're questioning whether to fill a prescription or go without it and hope for the best.
Employers are wondering whether they can afford to provide health care to their employees. They're asking how their businesses can survive while health care costs go faster than ever. Americans need health insurance reform. Debate is constant between television commentators, the editorial pages of great newspapers and magazines, but Mr. President, the only place where silence is even considered is here in the United States Senate.
Now, tonight, finally, we have the opportunity to bring this debate where it belongs. We finally have the opportunity to bring this great deliberation to this great deliberative body. That and nothing more is what tonight's vote does. A yes vote says to America, I know this issue is important to your family and to our country, and the Senate should, at the very least, talk about it.
Let's be real transparent. Beyond all the hype, hyperbole and the hyperventilation, that and more nothing is what tonight's vote does. A yes vote says to America, I know the issue is important to your family and to our country, and the Senate should at least talk about it. Mr. President, some of my Republican friends would like the American people to think that voting to debate the bill is voting to pass the bill.
Any high school civics textbook will tell you the suggestion is absolutely false. Tonight's vote is not the end of the debate. It's only the beginning of the debate. It's clear by now that my Republican colleagues have no problem talking about health care, radio interviews, television interviews, press conferences, little town hall meetings.
My distinguished counterpart, the Republican leader, has given many speeches in this chamber on the issue of health care reform. Yet now that we have the actual legislation to debate, to amend, to build on, now that we have a plan on paper and not just wild rumors, will they refuse to debate? After all, if we're not debating, if we refuse to let the Senate do its job, what are we doing here?
If senators refuse to debate about a profound crisis affecting every single citizen, the nation must ask, what do you fear? And whose voice do you speak? In whose interest do you vote? Surely deliberating health reform can't be more difficult than deciding, as Americans have to do, whether to pay your mortgage or to pay your medical bills.
It can't be more painful than not taking your child to the doctor because it costs too much. It can't be more humbling than facing your own employees and telling them, I'm sorry, you can't count on me for your health care. You're on your own. And it can't be more upsetting than having insurance tome to take away coverage at the exact moment you need it the most.
My Republican friends, there's nothing to fear in debate. President Kennedy once said and I quote "let us not be afraid of debate or discussion. Let us encourage it." Be not afraid of debate. It's our job and it's exactly what the legislative process is all about, discussing, amending, improving. We Democrats stand ready to do what needs to be done. We welcome debate. We encourage debate.
Does any United States senator seriously think the founders conceived the Senate and its rules in hopes of legislation would never be deliberated? Of course not. Did the framers of the Constitution explicitly enumerate the powers of the Senate but in truth hope this body would avoid the hardest and most urgent questions of the day? Of course, not.
Did our nation's visionaries build this building, this Capitol building and design this great chamber that we stand in tonight only so that it would remain dark and silent, quite to the contrary. Imagine if instead of debating either historic G.I. bills legislation that have given so many brave Americans the chance to brave college, this body had stood silent. Imagine if instead of debating the bills that created social security or Medicare, the Senate's voices had been stilled.
Imagine if instead of debating whether to abolish slavery, instead of debating whether giving women and minorities a right to vote those who disagreed were muted. Discussion was killed. There would be no vote. So I say to my Republican senators, don't try to silence a great debate over a great crisis. Don't let history show that when given the chance to debate and defend your position to work with us for the good of our country and constituents you ran and hid.
You cannot wish away a great emergency by closing your eyes and pretending it doesn't exist. There is an emergency and it exists and it exists now. The right response to disagreement is not dismissal. It's discussion. Democracy is discussion. Democracy needs deliberation. Let us debate our differences on some we'll find common ground. On others we may not. But let's at least tell America it's legislators, the United States Senate is willing to find where we -- where we can come together.
Nobel Prize winner Andrei Sakharov, one of the great thinkers of the past century, knew that when opposing sides come together, the sum of their ideas could outweigh its parts. Sakharov said and I quote, "profound thoughts arise only in debate with the possibility of counter argument." So come on, my friends, let us share ideas here in the United States Senate. Let us legislate, let us negotiate, let us deliberate, let us debate. Our country cries for this debate. Our country deserves this debate. Our country needs this debate.
LEMON: Senate majority leader Harry Reid, speaking just before that it was a minority leader which is Mitch McConnell. Standing by there, the vote will happen at the top of the hour, just a few minutes, just a few minutes. It could come a little bit before then. I want to show you real quickly the best political team on television is standing by. We're going to have some analysis of this in just a bit. We're supposed to be a bit of a break there between the two speeches. We'll get a break in but we're going to do it now and talk to you on the other side.
Then I have a programming note for all of our viewers. "Killings at the Canal: the Army Tapes" scheduled for the top of the hour. It's going to be seen in its entirety after the vote. We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Perfect timing. The vote starting in. Let's listen in.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Bennett of Colorado.
BENNETT: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Bennett of Utah.
BENNETT: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Bingingman. Mr. Bond.
BOND: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mrs. Boxer. Mr. Brown.
BROWN: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Brownback.
BROWNBACK: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Bunning.
BUNNING: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Burr.
BURR: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Burris. Mr. Byrd. Miss Cantwell. Mr. Cardin.
CARDIN: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Carper. Mr. Casey.
CASEY: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Chambliss.
CHAMBLISS: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Coburn? COBURN: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Cochran. Miss Collins. Mr. Conrad. Mr. Corker. Mr. Cornyn.
CORNYN: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Crepo.
CREPO: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. DeMint?
DEMINT: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Dodd.
DODD: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Dorgan.
DORGAN: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Durbin.
DURBIN: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Ensign.
ENSIGN: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Enzi.
ENZI: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Feingold.
FEINGOLD: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mrs. Feinstein?
FEINSTEIN: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Franken.
FRANKEN: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mrs. Gillibrand. Mr. Graham.
GRAHAM: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Grassley. Mr. Gray.
GRAY: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mrs. Hagen? HAGEN: Aye
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Harkin.
HARKIN: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Hatch. Mrs. Hutchison. Mr. Imhoff?
IMHOFF: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Nowei?
NOWEI: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Isaacson? Mr. Johans.
JOHANS: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Johnson. Mr. Kaufman.
KAUFMAN: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Kerry. Mr. Kirk.
KIRK: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Miss Klobuchar.
KLOBUCHAR: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Cole. Mr. Kyl.
KYL: No.
SENATE CLERK: Miss Landrieu. Mr. Lautenberg.
LAUTENBERG: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Leahy?
LEAHY: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Lemieux.
LEMIEUX: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Levin.
LEVIN: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Lieberman.
LIEBERMAN: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mrs. Lincoln. Mr. Lugar.
LUGAR: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. McCain? Mrs. McCaskill? Mr. McConnell? Mr. Menendez? Mr. Merkley?
SEN. JEFF MERKLEY, (D), OREGON: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Ms. Mikulski? Ms. Murkowski?
SEN. MURKOWSKI, (R), ARKANSAS: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mrs. Murray?
SEN. PATTY MURRAY, (D), WASHINGTON: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Nelson of Nebraska?
SEN. BEN NELSON, (D), NEBRASKA: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Nelson of Florida?
SEN. BILL NELSON, (D), FLORIDA: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Pryor? Mr. Reed of Rhode Island?
SEN. JACK REED, (D), RHODE ISLAND: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Reid of Nevada? Mr. Risch?
SEN. JAMES RISCH, (R), INDIANA: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Roberts?
SEN. PAT ROBERTS, (R), KANSAS: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Rockefeller? Mr. Sanders? Mr. Schumer?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, (D), NEW YORK: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Sessions?
SEN. JEFF SESSIONS, (R), ALABAMA: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mrs. Shaheen?
SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN, (D), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Shelby?
SEN. RICHARD SHELBY, (R), ALABAMA: No.
SENATE CLERK: Miss Snowe? Mr. Specter?
SEN. ALREN SPECTER, (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Miss Stabenow?
SEN. DEBBIE STABENOW, (D), MICHIGAN: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Tester?
SEN. JOHN TESTER, (D), MONTANA: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Thune?
SEN. JOHN THUNE, (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Udall of Colorado? Mr. Udall of New Mexico?
SEN. TOM UDALL, (D), NEW MEXICO: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Vitter?
SEN. DAVID VITTER, (R), LOUISIANA: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Voinovich? Mr. Warner?
SEN. MARK WARNER, (D), VIRGINIA: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Webb?
SEN. JIM WEBB, (D), VIRGINIA: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Whitehouse?
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, (D), RHODE ISLAND: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Wicker? Mr. Wyden?
SEN. RON WYDEN, (D), OREGON: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Akaka? Mr. Carper? Mr. Cochran?
SEN. THAD COCHRAN, (R), MISSISSIPPI: No.
SENATE CLERK: Mrs. Hutchison? Mr. Burris?
SEN. ROLAND BURRIS, (D), ILLINOIS: Aye.
SENATE CLERK: Mr. Bingaman?
SEN. JEFF BINGAMAN, (D), NEW MEXICO: Aye.
DON LEMON, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: All right, so they're going back about to revote for some of the people -- not a revote -- but for some of the people that were not there to vote. They're voting at their desks.
The best political team on television joins us.
Dana Bash, majority leader asked them to vote from their desks so they -- some people weren't in the building or in their seats, so they've got to go back and ask them their vote again?
DANA BASH, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, that is the typical way a Senate vote works, is not what you're seeing now. Senators almost never sit in their seats. The Democratic leader asked them to do this to show the import of the moment from his perspective. That's why you see this. Typically, what you see is Senators milling around in the well of the Senate, coming in and out, and sometimes getting there at the last minute so it is -- this is kind of the way they do it. They go through the alphabet and, for example, they've gone through some of the Senators we were talking about earlier, some of those key Democratic votes, Senator Landrieu and Senator Lincoln. Their names were called. They haven't voted yet.
But what you're seeing, and it's important to emphasize, it is really different in terms of the way the Senate operates, because this is designed to show, from the perspective of the Democrats, this is big and this matters.
LEMON: OK, OK, we're going to go back to the floor. Let's listen.
SENATE CLERK: Casey, Conrad, Dodd, Dorgan, Durbin, Feingold, fine stein, Franken, Gillibrand, Hagen, Harkin, Inouye, Kaufman, Kerry, Kirk, Klobuchar, Cole, Landrieu, Lautenberg, Leahy, Levin, Lieberman, Lincoln, McCaskill. Menendez, Merkley. Murray, Nelson of Nebraska, Nelson of Florida, Pryor, Reed of Rhode Island, Reed of Nevada. Rockefeller, Sanders, Schumer, Shaheen. Specter, Stabenow, Udall of Colorado, Udall New Mexico. Warner, Webb, Whitehouse and Widen.
LEMON: Those were Senators who voted in the affirmative. I don't think they've had those that say who said nay or at least voted in the negative. We'll hear that in a bit. But again, our Dana Bash was talking -- let's bring -- are those guys ready? Let's them back in while there is a lull. And if you hear them calling the names of those who voted against the bill we'll talk about it.
Right along party lines, Mark Preston?
MARK PRESTON, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Not surprising of this vote when Blanche Lincoln earlier today said she would support the ability for the Senate to move forward with the debate. You know, we weren't surprised anymore. We knew that Democrats had 60 votes. You know...
LEMON: OK, Mark, they're reading the names who voted against the bill. Let's listen in. I'll come back to you.
SENATE CLERK: DeMint, Ensign, Enzi, Graham, Grassley, Gregg, Hatch, Hutchison, Inhofe, Isakson, Johanns, Kyle, Lemieux, Lugar, McCain, McConnell, Murkowski, Risch, Roberts, Sessions, Shelby, Snowe, Thune, Vitter and Wicker.
LEMON: Right now, we're waiting on a tally. And, again, there is no rule book now for how this goes. We'll bring Dana in. Dana, and I may have to interrupt you, and Mark.
Mark, I want Mark to finish this thought. but we may have to interrupt you if we hear the tally. Go ahead.
PRESTON: Well, very quickly, Democrats will have 60 votes on this, but there has been a lot of talk that President Obama had 60 votes in Congress. And I think it's fair to say there were never a hard 60 votes. We saw that with Blanche Lincoln and Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu. The centrists right now, at least to me, are the most powerful people in Washington.
LEMON: Before I bring Dana in, I want to go to Ed Henry.
Ed, you think the TV sets are on at the White House or someone is watching this somewhere?
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE EHOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They absolutely are. and what's interesting is that, when you talk to White House aides, what they love about tonight is the fact that they say that the Republicans, and there were people in the media, pundits, who were saying back in May, when some of the first cost estimates coming out about the early legislation, they were declaring this dead. Go back to August, the sound and fury of those town hall meetings across the country. Again, many people declared this effort is dead. Then a couple of weeks back, could they get it through the House? There was a squeaker of a vote. You were covering that right up until the very last second and they got it through so her again....
OK, Ed, we got to go back.
SEN. CHRIS DODD, (D), CONNECTICUT: Any Senators who wish to vote or change their vote? If not on this vote, the ayes of 60. The nays are 39. Three-fifths of the Senators duly chosen in the affirmative, the motion is agreed to. (APPLAUSE).
LEMON: Dana? There you see, 60 yeas, 39 nays. So that means the debate will go on. Dana, five seconds for you, if you're there and can put a cap on it.
BASH: A cap is a party-line vote, 60, with no votes to spare, 60 votes on the Democratic side. A very strong indication of this -- this is a success for the president, for the Democratic leadership, but how tough it will be to get this health care bill, the president's told priority, off the Senate floor, through Congress, and to his desk for his signature.
LEMON: Dana Bash, Ed Henry, Mark Preston, thank you so much.
I'm Don Lemon at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. We'll talk to the best political team on television starting at 10:00 p.m. eastern tonight.
Meantime, we want to take you to a CNN special investigation, "AC360," "Killings at the Canal: The Army Tapes," in its entirety. It begins right now.
