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Campbell Brown
Airlines Raising Prices?; White House Security Breach?
Aired November 25, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The president gets punked. How were these two wannabe reality stars able to crash last night's state dinner at the White House? Check them out with Joe Biden and here with Rahm Emanuel. They weren't even invited. So, how did they get through security?
Is a story that made headlines around the world literally too good to be true? Doctors say this man thought to be in a coma for 23 years was actually conscious the whole time and is now able to communicate. But now skeptics say those may not be his words after all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope I'm wrong with what I'm about to say, but there are a lot of red flags flying around this case.
BROWN: Also tonight, are you a helicopter parent, hypoallergenic socks, nursery schools teaching Mandarin, parents texting teachers to complain about their kids' grades? If some of that sounds familiar, you may be overparenting. Tonight, we will tell you why you may need to back off.
And airlines jacking up the prices, slapping you with fees all the way into next year. Are they taking us for a ride or just trying to stay in business?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The airlines have been nickel-and-diming us since February of 2008.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is your only source for news. CNN prime time begins now. Here's Campbell Brown.
BROWN: Hi there, everybody.
We start tonight, as always, with the "Mash-Up." We're watching it all, so you don't have to. And we begin with some pretty unbelievable breaking news, what appears to be a massive security breach at the White House state dinner last night.
This is according to "The Washington Post." The president got punked by some reality TV star wannabes. Take a look. You will see this couple here. Well, they were not on the guest list, but somehow managed to sneak through literally layer after layer of security. They got into the party in the same room with the president and posed with some of the most important people in our government.
And then they posted their pictures all over Facebook. And did we mention they're trying to star in the next "Real Housewives" TV show?
Here they are even being officially announced by the Marines. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. and Mrs. Salahi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: There they are. The White House confirmed to "The Washington Post" that the couple was not invited to the party, but they could not explain how they got in. Someone about to be in very serious trouble here. We're going to have a lot more for you on this. You can imagine the security implications as well -- all that coming up.
And a new minute-by-minute look tonight at what happened on 9/11. The whistle-blowing Web site Wikileaks is releasing what appears to be text messages sent by ordinary people on the day that American was attacked. And here is a sampling obtained by CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An aloha call is starting. This is for a fire at 2WT.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: CNN said they think it was a plane that hit the building.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The World Trade cent has just blown up. We have seen the explosion outside our windows. Teresa.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: At 9:05 another plane hits.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a deliberate attack; a second plane just flew into the second tower.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New York is under a terrorist attack.
MESERVE: By 9:25, the personal messages have grown more frequent and more frantic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, call my work as soon as you get in the office. I need to know you're safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wondering where you are. Are you OK? Give me a call back ASAP. I just need to know these things. Even if it's collect. Call me, Darryl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I do not hear from you by high noon, I'm going to pick Laura up at school and tell her father is dead.
MESERVE: Texts bring some people good news.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Urgent. It's Tim. I'm OK. Call me at home. I was outside the build when text proceeded. I am fine.
MESERVE: Others have to wait and worry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pete's OK. He can't find his brother who works in the world financial center next to the trade center
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Wikileaks is posting more than half-a-million of these 9/11 text messages. A spokesman says they have verified some of the texts and believe that they are in fact all authentic.
And a glimmer of hope tonight from the mom of a Florida teen who was set on fire by a group of kids. She says her son, 15-year-old Michael Brewer, is in a lot of pain, but is focusing right now on his recovery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has got bandages from here down. His hands and his feet are free. He has a bandage still on his left ear where it's still healing, because he had third-degree burns on his ears. The physical struggles that he has on a daily basis, it hurts him just to take a drink of water. Just to lift his arm up like this, he has to -- he can lift it this far, and then he has to put his head forward like this just to take a drink.
In the beginning, because he was coming out of anesthesia, he would have bouts of anger. But he doesn't anymore. He still has a very long way to go. But he's very determined to make it through this and to come home and move on with his life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Michael's mom also says that the outpouring of support from total strangers has renewed her faith in mankind.
And a massive car recall under way right now. Toyota is replacing the gas pedals on about four million cars because they can get stuck, apparently, in floor mats and cause serious accidents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The recall was prompted by a crash outside San Diego last summer that killed four family members.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our accelerator is stuck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family's horrifying last moments captured in this 911 call. CHRIS LASTRELLE, LEXUS PASSENGER: We're in trouble. We can't -- there's no brakes. We're going north 125 and our accelerator is stuck.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A Lexus ES-350 sedan out of control on a highway near San Diego at over 100 miles an hour. Moments before impact, a desperate call to 911.
LASTRELLE: Hold on. Pray. Pray.
TODD: The crash in August killed four members of one family. Preliminary reports from investigators say a floor mat -- the wrong kind, improperly installed -- could have pushed over the gas pedal and pinned it down. Toyota has told drivers of several Toyota and Lexus models to remove their floor mats until further notice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: It's the seventh larger recall ever.
And today, controversial kisser Adam Lambert says he's a performer, not a baby-sitter. He explained, but did not apologize, for smooching his keyboardist at the American Music Awards. And here's what he told "The Early Show."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADAM LAMBERT, MUSICIAN: I admit I did get carried away. But I don't see anything wrong with it. I do see how people got offended. And that was not my intention.
I think ABC was taken a little by surprise. And that wasn't my intention. I wasn't being sneaky. It just -- it got the most of me, I guess. I want to let loose, and it just kind of -- it got the best of me. And I had a great time. Unfortunately, there were people upset, but I think there were also people that really enjoyed it.
So, like "Idol," I guess I have a tendency to divide people. Apples and oranges. You either like it or you don't. If it had been a female pop performer doing the moves that were on the stage, I don't think there would be nearly as much of an outrage at all. Like I said, there were other performers doing risque things. I mean, Janet Jackson, crotch grab, I haven't heard one peep about that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think it's because you're male or do you think it's because you're gay?
LAMBERT: Both. I think it's a double whammy. I think it's because I'm a gay male, and I think that people haven't seen that before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, despite the kiss or maybe because of it, Lambert's new album already selling way more than expected. And now to the flying ham that almost took out Paula Deen. She was helping out with a charity food drive when the flying hog caught her in the face. Good-humored as ever, she explained to Larry King how it all went down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAULA DEEN, FOOD NETWORK STAR: It was a young man's first day. And he didn't realize that once in a while, I will send one of the guys with Smithfield out for a pass.
And he was so caught up in the moment and so excited, when the ham finally got to him, he said, "Paula, back at you." And I thought he was just making a statement. I turned around to get another ham out of the truck. And when I did, I was hit solid in the center of my face. And I literally saw stars.
But thank goodness I'm a bigger ham than that one was. So I survived it. I'm not even bruised.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And that brings us to the "Punchline." This is courtesy of Conan O'Brien. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH CONAN O'BRIEN": Did you hear what happened? Celebrity chef Paula Deen was taking part in a Thanksgiving charity event when someone hit her in the face with a ham. That's true, hit her in the face with a ham.
Yes, by the way, the charity event was called Hit Paula Deen in the Face With a Ham.
(LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: So, they raised a lot of money, apparently, yes. Just -- I don't even know how that happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And that is the "Mash-Up."
You would think the White House is the most secure building in the country, right? Well, nobody gets in without an invitation, right? Think again. These two reality show wannabes, here they are, they managed to crash last night's state dinner apparently. We're going to tell you how.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We have got more now on tonight's breaking news, right now, a very gossipy, but also a potentially frightening mystery happening in Washington. How did a couple of aspiring stars of the reality show "The Real Housewives of Washington, D.C." get into last night's White House state dinner, even though they weren't invited?
Here they are right now posing. You can see they're pictured with top White House officials. They posted these pictures of themselves on Facebook. So, how did they get in and get past all the security? Is this a major security breach we're talking about?
We have joining us right now Roxanne Roberts, who is the "Washington Post" "Reliable Source" columnist and just broke this story. She is on the telephone with us. Also CNN national security contributor -- oh, no, Roxanne, we have you in person.
ROXANNE ROBERTS, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Barely, but I'm here.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: I know. You barely made it.
ROBERTS: Yes.
Also with us on the phone is CNN national security contributor Fran Townsend, who worked at the White House, of course, with the Bush administration.
Roxanne, let me start with you on all this. You talked to the White House about this breach. What is their explanation?
ROBERTS: Well, at first, they didn't have an explanation other -- to say that somehow these people did in fact get through. But we didn't know why.
Just a few minutes ago, the reason I'm late, is that the Secret Service said there was a breach. They did a preliminary investigation today, and one of the Secret Service checkpoints didn't properly determine That these people were on the invited guest list. And then they got through.
Now, we do need to say that they didn't have any weapons on them. They had to go through the magnetometers and all of the physical things that would prevent them from being a risk. But, nonetheless, we have got two people who show up at the White House and essentially walk in.
BROWN: Well, and you said a breach at one of the security checkpoints.
ROBERTS: Right.
BROWN: You have been a Washingtonian for a very long time.
ROBERTS: Right.
BROWN: I'm sure you have been to a few events at the White House. There's more than one checkpoint you have got to go through, right?
ROBERTS: Usually. What is interesting here is you have got this very elegant formal affair. These people were dressed as if they were guests. There were a lot of guests arriving at the same time. And what they probably did is say something like, oh, there must be some mistake. My name's not on the list.
And they were somehow able to get -- typically, what happens is that, if you're a guest at the White House, in advance, you have to provide your Social Security number, your date of birth. All that's pre-cleared, so that, when you show up, all you have to do is show your identification, they check that, and then you go through the physical magnetometers and checks.
In this case, they probably said, the most likely thing is that, oh, there must be some mistake. I'm not on this list. And somehow, somebody at the White House decided after they looked at their I.D. that it was all right for them to go in.
BROWN: And, Roxanne, I know you have been doing a little digging on just who this couple is. What you can tell us about them?
ROBERTS: They are reality show people, which is what so...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Then that says it all.
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERTS: It really kind of does.
I was at the booksellers last night, which is the entrance where all the guests came in. And when I saw them come in, I went -- I thought to myself, what on earth are they doing here? They're not political. They're involved in a vineyard in Northern Virginia. And now she -- we're talking about Tareq and Michaele Salahi. I want to pronounce that properly.
BROWN: Right.
ROBERTS: And they had a dispute with their family with a vineyard in Virginia. Very messy. There's some polo tournaments that depending on who you believe are kind of dicey, a little iffy. They're not at all political.
So, to see them walk in there, I thought to myself, oh, my goodness, I wonder how they snagged an invitation to the most exclusive state dinner and the first of the Obama administration. And their names were not on the guest list. But it never occurred me, ever occurred to me that they would have actually crashed this party.
BROWN: Fran, let me bring you into this. You worked at the White House. You have been to a lot of events like this. You certainly know what it's all about. What was your reaction when you heard this?
FRANCES FRAGOS TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first, Campbell, let me say, normally, what happens when you first come up to the first security, the first perimeter checkpoint, where the Secret Service is, there's also a member of the social secretary's office, typically, a young staffer with a clipboard that has the names in case just such a thing happens, so that if you get up there, and you're not up in the Secret Service system, and there's some dispute, you go over to the social secretary's person and she will check to see if there was some mistake in not putting you in the system.
If you're not in the system and not -- your name is not on the social secretary's list, you don't get in, typically. And, so, you have to wonder. This is a very large event. Typically, state dinners are held in the East Room, which holds somewhere in the neighborhood of 175 people for a seated dinner. This had over 300.
And I imagine the size of it and the chaos of everyone arriving at the same time and, frankly, the lack of experience of people who would have been helping the Secret Service at the gate contributed to this.
We ought to tell people that this is not sort of a minor infraction, if you're these two people who got in improperly. It's a potential felony. They would have had to make a false statement to the Secret Service agent and the social secretary's person, both federal officials, that there was a mistake, that they were supposed to be on the list.
That's a lie and that's a federal felony, for which they can serve jail time. It's not just a misdemeanor for trespassing. It's a potential felony.
BROWN: Now, Fran, let me ask you, too -- and, Roxanne, I would be curious about your reaction, but Fran first -- I don't want to be an alarmist about this. And we know they went through the metal detectors and they didn't have any weapons on them or anything.
But in this day and age, we know this president, the first African-American president, has more threats against him than any other president. The Secret Service talked about that. A crazy person could who got in uninvited grab a fork and do something insane, right? This is not just something to joke about. Am I being fair?
TOWNSEND: No, you are being fair. And, Campbell, I had the exact same reaction. Even before I left the White House in January of '08, we were concerned about the level of threats and sort of hateful speech and threats directly against not only the president, but the first family.
And, so, I think you're absolutely right. We ought to be concerned. There are special screening procedures that go on you that don't see and you don't realize for other types of devices and weapons, whether it's radiological or biological.
But you do worry about something less than a weapon, an obvious weapon being snuck through. And you worry just the mere physical proximity in a social setting where literally you can walk up and touch the president and first lady. It would be a concern, regardless of the circumstances.
This is a real problem. And I don't have any doubt the Secret Service the social secretary's office and, frankly, I'm sure, the chief of staff will have to do a thorough investigation. And I imagine anybody showing up for the next state dinner better leave plenty of time to screen security, because they will be very careful the next time.
BROWN: No kidding. Roxanne, what do you think? Are there going to be some real fallout from this?
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: I think there will be, because I think it's important for people to understand exactly what this couple was able to do once they got in the White House. They were announced as if they were invited guests. They went through, as you saw, all the entrance.
BROWN: Well, I was going to say...
ROBERTS: Yes.
BROWN: ... we have shown people pictures. She's got her arm around Joe Biden.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: I'm sure she went up and said, oh, I'm a huge fan; can I have a picture? She was right next to Rahm Emanuel. She was next to the mayor of D.C. and his wife. They were right next to each other, curled up, very happy.
And that's a little scary, because I'm sure that none of those people had any idea who they were. And it never occurred to them that they weren't supposed to be at this event, and they pose for pictures with people all the time without having any real sense of who that person is.
BROWN: Roxanne, appreciate you scrambling to get this story on our air.
Roxanne Roberts tonight from "The Washington Post" and Fran Townsend, many thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.
(CROSSTALK)
TOWNSEND: Thanks, Campbell.
ROBERTS: Thanks.
And when we come back, Roman Polanski about to be a free man -- that coming up next in the download.
Plus, the airlines are burying us in fees for the next year. So, are they ripping us all off or just keeping themselves from going bankrupt? Find out why you're getting nickel-and-dimed every time you fly when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And we want to update you on the story we were just telling about. We have a little new information here.
This is about to the reality show wannabes, this couple who crashed the state dinner at the White House last night and managed to get through security.
We have a statement that just came out from the Secret Service a few moments ago, saying that they are doing a full-scale investigation here, a comprehensive review of the incident. Their initial findings, that there was a breakdown apparently at one of the Secret Service checkpoints, where proper procedures were not followed.
They do make a note of the fact that these two individuals did go through the magnetometers and other levels of security. So, obviously, they're going to be looking into this for quite some time. And we will be updating you with more developments.
(NEWS BREAK)
BROWN: So doctors thought that this man was in a coma for 23 years. It turns out he may have been conscious the whole time. And then this week, we saw him typing on a keyboard. But tonight, there are real questions about whether he is actually doing the communicating, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, there are new questions about a medical mystery we told you about earlier this week. A man in Belgium woke up after 23 years in a coma. And it turns out he may have been aware of what was going on the whole time.
A 1993 car crash left Rom Houben paralyzed and it was thought unconscious. But all of this time, we are told he was fully conscious, listening and thinking, with no way to let anybody know that.
Well, he's now able to communicate with help by way of a keyboard. But some doctors who have watched the video of the man this week, communicating just like you see, are raising doubts about what we're seeing.
And we start tonight with CNN's Morgan Neill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MORGAN NEILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From young adulthood to middle age, doctors believed he was in a vegetative state, but then Dr. Steven Laureys, a neurologist studying coma patients, came to visit.
STEVEN LAUREYS, NEUROLOGIST: From the first day, it was clear already without fancy imaging techniques whatsoever, at the bedside, he showed clinical signs of consciousness incompatible with a vegetative state.
NEILL: Brain-scanning technology later confirmed it. Houben was fully conscious.
(on camera): Rom lives here in this house with seven other long- term patients. Now, staff say they have seen patients get worse and get better, but they have never seen a transformation like the one that Rom has made.
(voice-over): Today, with the help of a therapist, he communicates one letter at a time. I asked how he managed to cope with being shut off from the world for so long.
ROM HOUBEN, PATIENT (through translator): Time has no value for me. I live moment to moment. I try to enjoy the good moments and shut out the boring moments. To do this, I meditate.
NEILL: As he lay in bed, unable to interact, Houben says one of the worst things was hearing the emotional conversations of the families of other patients.
HOUBEN (through translator): I heard everyone who talked around me. I heard the families of other people as they shared their problems. When I heard that, I would shut them out, and I would meditate.
NEILL: But Houben's story is not without controversy. Skeptics say there's no way to know the words we're seeing are actually his. They point out that a therapist guides his fingers as he's types. It's called facilitated communication. And many psychologists liken it to a Ouija board, saying it's often the person holding the hand who really decides what is typed.
But both Dr. Laureys and Houben's mother say they have tested the method with information only Houben would know, and they are convinced the words are his.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Joseph Giacino, a specialist in brain injury, was with us the night we first reported the story, is back with us now.
And, Joe, I'm going to ask you -- I know you have taken another look at the tape, but I want to put it back up again, and just get your impression of it. I mean, do you think that he's actually communicating, or is this the therapist -- we're watching his hand right here right now -- who is actually doing it for him?
JOSEPH GIACINO, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR OF NEUROPSYCHOLOGY, JFK MEDICAL CENTER: So, you know, I think it's reasonable to raise questions about the legitimacy of the facilitated communication.
The problem is that there's -- there's no way to determine Mr. Houben's contribution to this typewritten sentences relative to the assistant's contribution. In order to that, you have to have very careful control of the environmental conditions. I don't know if that's been assorted out yet.
BROWN: So that they could still prove one way or another, theoretically?
GIACINO: Theoretically, that could be tested and proved.
BROWN: This isn't the first time something like this has come up. Art Caplan is a medical ethicist from the University of Pennsylvania, and I just want to play a little bit of what he had to say about facilitated communication. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARTHUR CAPLAN, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: There's a lot of doubt about whether that is a valid technique. Time and again, when people double-check, it's the therapist who's typing out hopeful messages trying to be kind to the patient, but the patient isn't really able to do much of anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: If there's so much controversy around this idea of facilitative communication, why are doctors using it?
GIACINO: I think the problem is that once one determines that somebody's got some level of consciousness, they're going to pull out all the stops to figure out if there's a way to make contact with the patience. So they're going to use every available means of communication. The issue is, is it done systematically? Is it done carefully with scientifically valid validated techniques?
BROWN: Do you think it is?
GIACINO: This particular intervention? I think that the tests so far that have been done, the experiments that have been done have not shown it to be reliable. I don't know that it's been done with brain injury patients at all.
BROWN: I also know that you have spoken to Dr. Laureys, who I believe is Rom Houben's doctor who was a colleague of yours for a long time. What's his take especially now that the skeptical -- the skepticism has been presented?
GIACINO: Right. You know, I think his concern at this point is that what this does is, is call into question whether Mr. Houben is conscious. And they have pretty clear and convincing evidence using other techniques, not facilitated communication, but standardized assessments. They use a scale called the coma recovery scale which demonstrates convincingly that he can follow commands.
BROWN: Right.
GIACINO: He can do simple things. We just don't know what the upper limit of his ability is. BROWN: So they're going to keep pushing it and hopefully we'll learn more.
GIACINO: That's the plan.
BROWN: I appreciate you coming in again. Joseph Giacino, thanks for your time.
GIACINO: Thank you, Campbell.
BROWN: Happy Thanksgiving as well.
Most parents would say, you can never worry too much about your kids, but maybe actually you can. We're going to look at why some experts are saying it's not such a bad idea to cut your kids a little slack.
And just in time for the holidays, some airlines are coming up with even more ways to empty your wallet before you take off.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Sometimes it seems parents just can't win. We hear about new dangers like this week's drop-down crib recall, and then we leap into action to try to protect our kids. And then there are stories like in the one's in this week's "Time" magazine about the growing backlash against overparenting.
And you know the kind of parents that we're talking about here, the ones who buy hypoallergenic socks, who have trees chopped down to prevent a stray nut from landing in the pool where an allergic kid swims. That is actually true. Tax teachers to complain about their kids grades. They are called apparently helicopter parents and clearly some of that behavior is way over the top. So how do the rest of us avoid overparenting, if that's what it's all about?
And joining me now to talk about this Po Bronson, who is co- author of the book "NurtureShock." And also with me Lenore Skenazy, who is author of "Free-Range Kids: Giving Our Children the Freedom We Had Without Going Nuts with Worry."
Welcome to both of you. Po, let me start with you. You just heard some of the examples. How in your view did parenting get so out of control.
PO BRONSON, AUTHOR, "NURTURESHOCK": First, we have fewer kids. Single-child families are now more common than two-child families. So all our parental energy and focus and obsession is going into fewer kids. We're more concerned about kids' safety even though they're safer than ever, because of the obsession by the media on abduction stories and child-at risk stories. And very simply when it comes to our obsession with children's success, we should be concerned to some extent because when we went to college, there were six million kids in college. Today, there's 15 million. So it's 2 1/2 times harder to get into those top name-brand colleges. And we kind of have to get away from those name brands and find good education that doesn't maybe have the same name-brand status.
BROWN: What is this overparenting, the helicopter-style parenting as it's being called? What impact does it have? Give us a sense on the children who are victims.
BRONSON: The helicopter parenting is preventing kids from growing up. University of Virginia, scientist Joe Allen has been very concerned that overprotecting teens is making kids who are 25 years old act like 15-year-olds because they just don't have the independence. They're not being given ways to take good risks, so they're only taking bad risks and we're delaying their development.
BROWN: Lenore, you advocate sort of a countertrend in parenting. That's called free-range kids. And just explain what it means.
LENORE SKENAZY, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Free-range kids is a parenting philosophy that still wants to raise safe and self-reliant kids but thinks that we've been hovering over them from the time they go to school and we're taking them, we're walking them, we're driving them to school. We're so afraid for them there, and then we pick them up from school, and we immediately put them in mandarin lessons and soccer and then we watch over them while they do their homework. They don't have a chance to breathe, but free-range kids says you don't have to be that worried about scheduling their every moment and, in fact, that kids do better when they have to make some of their own decisions, when they have to get themselves out of boredom.
I mean, can you imagine a kid who can get themselves unbored? That's what we're trying to raise. BROWN: But you -- what you did that got you branded as America's worst mom, was about more than just not overscheduling your kids. You wrote about letting your 9-year-old take the subway alone?
SKENAZY: As it will be chiseled on my tombstone, yes. Can I say one thing in my defense? My son had been asking me and my husband if he could do that. And because we're in New York City, we're on the subway all the time.
BROWN: Right.
SKENAZY: So he gets familiar with it. We see how we think it's very safe and there's tons of people around. And we sort of the -- it was the urban equivalent of when your kid says, mom, would you please quit holding the bike? I think I'm ready to ride by myself. You've got to let go of the handlebars.
BROWN: I don't know if I could do that, right?
SKENAZY: You got to let go of the handlebars.
BROWN: I know. Po, just talk to me a little bit though about that balance between, you know, legitimate safety concerns that parents have, obviously, and the things that we do need to let go of.
BRONSON: Right. By the time children are in middle school, 10 years old, we have to stop expecting them to tell us everything. Some things need to be none of our business so we have to -- and for every time we set a rule for our kids and we talk to them about some family rule, as parents, we should go back and think about in what way am I encouraging my own child's independence and autonomy to balance this out?
BROWN: So, are we, I guess, getting mixed messages, too, I mean, as parents?
SKENAZY: To us poor parents, we're always being involved, back off. You know what, free-range doesn't say don't be involved. But we say, like, teach your kids these things they need to know to be independent. Teach him how to cross the street. Teach them to talk to strangers so that they can be independent and ask for help if they need to.
And one of the tips I gave all the time is, you know, in terms of what Po was just saying, middle school, telling them everything what to do, turn off your cell phone for a day, mom.
BROWN: Yes.
SKENAZY: Try imagining that they can't reach you for a day. They have to decide if they're ready for a snack or if they should go to the park. These are things that we used to decide and by making little decisions, you get to the point that like Po was saying, you get to college, you can make some decisions. You're not a 28-year-old acting like a 15-year old. The way to do it is by stepping back a little. And it doesn't have to be putting them on the subway.
BROWN: All right. I'll work on it.
SKENAZY: I know you will. I'll come back.
BROWN: Lenore Skenazy, who's author of "Free-Range Kids," and Po Bronson, the author of "NurtureShock," thanks, guys, appreciate it. Happy Thanksgiving.
BRONSON: Thank you.
SKENAZY: Thank you.
BROWN: So much for holiday cheer for some though. Airlines nickel and diming us into the stratosphere this Thanksgiving. Has it really come to this? Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM PARSONS, CEO, BESTFARES.COM: If you want to take your puppy on the airplane with you, it's 100 bucks each way. You fly your kids solo, a $98 airfare. Two-way? She's going to pay 200 bucks. And yet the ticket only costs $98 just for the escort fee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Crowded planes, long security lines, grumpy passengers. If you are among the estimated 2.3 million Americans who are flying this Thanksgiving, you know the drill by now. Now, add to that something you maybe don't know about, extra fees for your flight. So what is the deal here? Are the airlines trying to squeeze us just to pad their bank accounts, or doing what is necessary to save the industry.
We asked Tom Parsons who is CEO of the discount travel Web site BestFares.com.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And Tom parsons, welcome to you.
TOM PARSONS, CEO, BESTFARES.COM: Thank you.
BROWN: So more fees now. What's going on? Explain to us what's happening?
PARSONS: Oh, this is the holiday fees. But also we can't just call it holiday fees, we call it peak holiday fees. Holiday, peak, whatever you want to call them, there's 40 days between now and probably Easter. And during spring break, during the month of March, there are 19 of them. They're going to charge us $10, $20, $30 even $50 if you want to come back the Monday after Super Bowl.
BROWN: But what's it about? I mean --
PARSONS: The airlines have been nickel and diming us since February 2008 when United said, you know, they're going to charge us $25 for a bag and everybody said, say it ain't so, Joe. And guess what, everybody's doing it now except for Southwest.
BROWN: Right.
PARSONS: For two bags, (INAUDIBLE) first. Everybody is on that ball, you know, that ball game.
BROWN: So this is just a way to jack up prices?
PARSONS: You know, if the airlines can set money, how they can get it from us without adding it to the airplane ticket but do it a la carte, they're going to hit us with it. When I flew out from Dallas the other day, the new baggage Gestapos were out there because if everybody is carrying their bags on, so they're out there inspecting those bag before you even go through TSA. If they believe it doesn't meet the size requirement --
BROWN: They can force you to check it.
PARSONS: And guess what they get?
BROWN: They get the baggage fee.
PARSONS: They get an extra 20 or 30 bucks.
BROWN: So you mention that everybody was doing it, or you're talking about baggage fees except for like Southwest. On fees in general, tell me who the worst offenders are in terms of the airlines and who some of the best are if you're trying to avoid this?
PARSONS: I think the low-cost airlines are actually more friendly than everybody. I mean Southwest does have that. JetBlue is a low-cost airline, Virgin America. If you do check up to 10 bags, they're only going to charge you $25 for a bag, where airlines like Legacy Airlines like United, you want to check a bag over 50 pounds, they're going to hit you with $125 extra each way.
BROWN: Wow.
PARSONS: If you want to take your puppy on the airplane with you, it's 100 bucks each way. If you fly your kids solo on a $98 airfare. Two-way? She's going to pay 200 bucks and yet the ticket only costs $98 just for the escort fee.
BROWN: So what's next? I mean, we know there's baggage. You know, we know we're paying for food and drinks now. I read that some airlines are doing this charge for if you want to choose your seat, otherwise you roll the dice?
PARSONS: Yes. Well, remember, this holiday is cashless. Most of the airlines don't like U.S. dollars anymore. It's credit cards only or debit cards. So remember (INAUDIBLE).
But when it comes down to what you just said, though, I do think (INAUDIBLE) could be that. Spirit Airlines, you buy a seat. You want an aisle seat, they want 20 bucks not for the whole trip, but each flight segment. That's $80 roundtrip that you have to pay.
BROWN: Just taking a seat.
PARSONS: About the price of the ticket, AirTran (ph) charges $6 to get a seat assignment before. And I think that's probably something coming down the road. If you want a seat assignment, you're going to pay for it. You want to use your frequent flier miles, they're already adding surcharges on top of that.
BROWN: So how do you fight back? I mean, what are your, you know, top three tips for avoiding this kind of stuff?
PARSONS: I guess you don't fly. No, actually, I'm a frequent flier. I have millions of miles with different airlines. And I still -- I think I go a la carte. I just don't want to talk to a human. I don't want to make a phone call. Let me process my boarding pass at home before I get on the airplane.
Let's go to TSA. I don't want to talk to anybody. I just want to get my little upgrades, just sit down. And as long as I do all those things, I carry most of the time, except for tonight, where I'm taking a zoo with me, I usually just do everything a la carte. I don't pay for anything extra.
BROWN: So is this just because the airlines are struggling to stay alive right now? Give us your take on the state of the industry.
PARSONS: Well, here's what they're going to make, $4 billion on these excess fees. Maybe $5 billion. But they're also going to lose over $10 billion.
How do you go to an airline like all these airlines and say, you know, we don't like these fees? But we also, what you're giving back so you can lose $15 billion. So I think it's probably a long time before those go. Hopefully what they'll do is get -- they're actually starting to get their price points up. I think it's going to cost us more in 2010.
BROWN: Right.
PARSONS: And I think it's going to cost us more fees and everything else. So this year, we had a fantastic year. We've had some wild and crazy airfares. We still got some coming for 2010. Just buy when it's on sale. Don't buy out six months ahead. Stay in that short window, and I think you'll do OK.
BROWN: All right. Tom Parsons, appreciate it.
PARSONS: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And another Obama White House first. Today, the president pardoned his first Thanksgiving turkey. That coming up in tonight's "Political Daily Briefing."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Welcome back, everybody. Just in time for Thanksgiving, we are serving up our "Political Daily Briefing" with our little Tom Foreman for you.
Hey, Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello, Campbell. You know, Thanksgiving is one of the very few times that Washington isn't consumed by partisan politics, namely, because everyone is too busy consuming turkey. But nobody will be eating the 40-pound turkey named "Courage," presented to President Obama this morning. He got a presidential pardon, although the president reminded us it hasn't always been this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm told President Eisenhower and Johnson actually ate their turkeys. You can't fault them for that. That's a good looking bird.
President Kennedy was even given a turkey with a sign around its neck that said "Good eating, Mr. President." But he showed mercy. He said, let's keep him going. And 20 years ago, this Thanksgiving, the first President Bush issued the first official presidential pardon for a turkey.
Today, I'm pleased to announce that thanks to the interventions of Malia and Sasha because I was planning to eat this sucker, "Courage" will also be spared this terrible and delicious fate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Newly pardoned turkeys have been known to misbehave, flapping their wings or even try to peck their pardoner. So these photo-ops always have the potential for some embarrassing pictures. So just imagine how the first daughter, Malia, felt just as she reached out to pet the turkey.
Look at what her dad does. He gives her the elbow and makes her jump there. That's a dirty trick, Mr. President. Other than that, everyone survived unscathed.
One last Thanksgiving note. Who is that lady in latex gloves scanning baggage at Washington's Reagan National Airport? Why, it's none other than Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano. Her department oversees TSA's screeners and Napolitano told reporters she just wanted to see how they were doing and how the lines were moving.
I know a budget cut when I see it. Probably not as quickly as they would have been without the cabinet secretary, cameras and reporters in the way.
BROWN: I was going to say, does she have to pick the busiest travel day of the year? She'd just check out on everybody?
FOREMAN: Yes. Why didn't she do that like on June 14th or something?
BROWN: I mean, come on.
FOREMAN: Yes, exactly. Show this thing.
BROWN: Tom Foreman. Thanks, Tom, appreciate it.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few moments. His guest tonight, animal expert Jack Hanna. Next in tonight's "Breakout," a school principal who's nourishing her students in more ways than one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Check it out. In New York City tonight, an annual tradition under way right now. Take a look.
They are inflating the huge balloons for the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade, Spider-Man, Buzz Lightyear, Dora, Snoopy, Kermit the Frog -- the whole gang are going to fly through Manhattan. The parade starts 9:00 Eastern tomorrow morning.
In tonight's "Breakout," we go into a school where learning is only part of the picture. The principal has turned it into a lifeline for families living in poverty. A struggle that mirrors her own as a child. But as Dan Simon shows us, it's a lesson in both thanks and giving.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are chefs from some of the fanciest hotels in Las Vegas. But today, they are searching breakfast at Whitney Elementary, part of a nonprofit initiative to eliminate malnutrition and hunger.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what do we say when we're very grateful and very fortunate?
ALL: Thank you.
SIMON: School principal Sherrie Gahn says it's a healthy and memorable meal for students who don't have much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Which one?
SIMON: That's because the school estimates that as many as 85 percent of the 600 or so students are homeless living in cheap motels, with friends or in shelters.
SHERRIE GAHN, PRINCIPAL, WHITNEY ELEMENTARY: Literally, at every waking moment, I think about what else do I need to do.
SIMON: When Gahn arrived here seven years ago, she says children were devouring ketchup packets to fill empty stomachs. Clearly, they weren't getting enough food. So she set out to do something about it, a mission that came from personal pain.
GAHN: And I was raised in poverty. My mother went to a local organization at one point. My mother actually asked for food and clothes, and they turned us down. And I saw how devastated she was.
GAHN: Get your food, honey.
SIMON: Gahn vowed her families at Whitney would never be turned down. She twisted arms and begged for donations, opening a one of a kind school supply closet, part food bank, part clothing supply.
JAMES ICENOGLE, 4th GRADE STUDENT: I got some pants, some shirts, some new shoes and some new socks.
SIMON (on camera): A lot of these kids come from such challenges circumstances that there's no money at home to even celebrate birthdays. So once a month, the school throws a giant birthday party for all the kids who had birthdays that month. There's pizza, there's cake, and even some presents to take home.
(voice-over): Hairstylists donate haircuts and dentists donate dental care. When a family comes up short for something like a utility bill, the school through donations can help with that too.
SHIRLEY HERNANDEZ, GRANDMOTHER: Last year we didn't have Christmas. They gave us Christmas. Last year, we hardly going to have Christmas, but they're going to give us Christmas. They've helped us a lot, so I got to donate my time here to, you know, to show how much I appreciate the people here.
SIMON: And that's what Gahn expects that parents give something back by volunteering.
(on camera): At the end of the day, what is it that you wish for these children?
GAHN: I want them to have that sense of norm that a lot of families grow up in America having that they don't get.
SIMON (voice-over): On this morning, they do get attention from the city's best chefs. For many, it will be the best meal they've had in a while. For Sherrie Gahn, it's another small victory for her students.
Dan Simon, CNN, Las Vegas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And that's going to do it for us tonight. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Thanks for being with us.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
