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Joy Behar Page
Interview With Kathy Griffin; Interview With Larry David
Aired November 27, 2009 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight Bette Midler, Kathy Griffin and Vanessa Williams. I`ve got more stars in here than the Betty Ford Clinic. All that and more from the Time Warner Center in New York tonight.
You never know what my guest is going the say or for that matter say about you behind your back. Her brand of comedy is brash, outspoken and takes no prisoners. And in fact, I am wearing body armor right now.
So please help me welcome to my table. Kathy Griffin.
KATHY GRIFFIN, COMEDIAN: I love that intro and here`s why, because I love that you pointed out that I talk about people behind their backs.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: And here`s why. I think it`s interesting when people want me to confront these celebrities. And the truth is I was raised right. I talk about people behind their backs. And I wait until you leave the room.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: So when people say that on reality shows, if you have something to say, say it to my face.
BEHAR: No.
GRIFFIN: I would say, I`d rather wait until you leave the room.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: Because I can be funnier and that`s more freeing for me.
BEHAR: I understand that...
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Except that, you know, sometimes you get into trouble.
GRIFFIN: Yes always.
BEHAR: Ok, you`ve said things that I have down here. Suck it, Jesus.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: ... for example, you said that at the Emmy...
GRIFFIN: Right, when I won my first Emmy. I felt it too.
BEHAR: Yes, why were you interested in just offending every Christian in the world?
GRIFFIN: Well, I like to offend religious groups probably more than individuals, I mean, I like to offend individuals -- don`t get me wrong. But I find that deities and religious groups are the most fun, because they have the worst sense of humor.
And so when I told Jesus to suck it, which was me doing a spoof of when all these -- usually at the Grammy`s -- all these musical artists go up there and they thank God. Miley just did it...
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: ...after dancing on the pole. You know what I mean?
BEHAR: I know.
GRIFFIN: Ok.
BEHAR: It`s not pretty but it`s...
GRIFFIN: ... silly.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: And so I said Jesus had nothing to do with this award, suck it Jesus this award is my God now. And then the -- an angry Christian group took out a huge ad against me in "USA Today"...
BEHAR: Right.
GRIFFIN: ...and spent more money than Bravo ever would, advertising my life on "D" list. And so it was a great publicity for me.
BEHAR: Do you get death threats? Do you get like...
GRIFFIN: Yes, I`ve had death threats.
BEHAR: And how do you handle that? Because that`s a little scary?
GRIFFIN: Yes, well, I just -- I kind of just laugh at all of it.
BEHAR: You do.
GRIFFIN: ... maybe -- no, that`s probably why I am not a security expert like I wouldn`t be a good homeland security person.
BEHAR: No.
GRIFFIN: ... because I would say just -- oh just laugh at those jihadists. They are a riot.
BEHAR: Yes. I have two names for you -- one name for you.
GRIFFIN: What is it?
BEHAR: Salman Rushdie, remember fatwah, said (inaudible)?
GRIFFIN: He was on my life on the "D" list. I got tips from him? He was one of my guests...
BEHAR: On how to avoid jihadists?
GRIFFIN: How to deal with a fatwa -- because I have kind of a Hollywood fatwa in my head at all times.
BEHAR: Yes, you can have every move now...
GRIFFIN: Mostly perpetrated by Barbara Walters.
BEHAR: Let`s leave her out of this conversation.
GRIFFIN: Do we have to?
BEHAR: No, because this -- yes, you could because there`s other people -- Regis for example, you haven`t been invited back.
GRIFFIN: You`re the one that called him.
BEHAR: To "Regis and Kelly"...
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: It`s in my book. Did you know you are in my book?
BEHAR: Well, I heard about that.
GRIFFIN: You are in my book...
BEHAR: I skipped that section...
GRIFFIN: You have to look -- my book has an index where you can actually look yourself up and you can see what page you are on thereby having to not read the whole book at all.
BEHAR: Ok so what did I do for you? What happened?
GRIFFIN: Ok, what happened was I was on "The View" one time in the make-up room.
BEHAR: Right.
GRIFFIN: And you said to me out of the blue, you said, have you been on Regis lately and I said no. And you said, you mean because you said on the "Regis Live" that Gelman (ph) was Regis`s bitch?
And I said, oh "oh yes" and then I said "wait a minute, I haven`t been on the show." And then you were laughing and you said all "but that`s why."
And in fact, I have not been on Regis and Kelly Lee -- let`s go with Regis and Kelly Lee. Because that`s how long it`s been since I`ve been on the show -- that I believe I have a fatwa from Gelman.
BEHAR: You might have a fatwa from Gelman.
GRIFFIN: And I didn`t know Gelman could put a fatwa on someone`s head.
BEHAR: Sure, he doesn`t want to be known as Regis`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
GRIFFIN: That`s funny.
BEHAR: It is funny, but you know as you said, maybe some people don`t have the sense of humor that you have.
GRIFFIN: Right.
BEHAR: So you have to watch that.
GRIFFIN: You don`t think that Regis beats Gelman, ever?
BEHAR: He beats him verbally...
GRIFFIN: Yes, verbally.
BEHAR: He abuses him verbally. Oh, Regis is the boss.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Let`s face it.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: And then when -- but when you do get into trouble like that, you will not apologize? Am I right?
GRIFFIN: No, I don`t apologize for jokes. I apologize for if I stepped on your toe. Or if I...
BEHAR: You mean literally or figurative?
GRIFFIN: No literally because if...
BEHAR: Oh literally...
GRIFFIN: I have apologized for many, many things. But I don`t apologize for jokes so like saying suck it Jesus at the creative arts Emmy`s is so clearly a joke or starting a rumor that Dakota Fanning is going to rehab when she`s nine years old, it`s very clearly a joke.
BEHAR: That`s funny.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: They went after you for that, that`s ridiculous.
GRIFFIN: Yes, but also if I would have said it about Lindsay Lohan, then I could understand if people weren`t sure if I was kidding.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: But to say it about nine-year-old Dakota Fanning is like very obviously a joke.
BEHAR: Right.
Now, what about the facts that Letterman he apologized to Sarah Palin for the Bristol joke. Do you think he should have or not? Because that was a joke.
GRIFFIN: Well, that was interesting because in my book I talked about being banned from Letterman. And then as I was writing the book, my 12-year ban was lifted.
BEHAR: Why? Why were you banned from Letterman?
GRIFFIN: I think because I swore too much. I don`t know for sure. You know the way banning has worked with these shows is they never want to come out and say you`re banned. They usually just like want to just keep not booking you, year after year.
BEHAR: Of course, they don`t want to admit it.
GRIFFIN: After winning Emmys and after going to Iraq...
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: And after doing this and then just they can`t find a spot for me but they can have Spencer from Heidi and Spencer, they can find a spot for him. But -- so then on Letterman I was a fallout.
BEHAR: Right.
GRIFFIN: ... because when you`re on the "D" list, that`s what you do. Which means the show has booked a real star, big and a head cold, Paula Abdul, head cold and then, they call me and I just rush over there in a couple of hours and fill in.
So that`s how I got to go back on Letterman as opposed to I was a fallout.
BEHAR: Now, what does this mean head cold, when you do it like that?
GRIFFIN: It seems to me...
BEHAR: What do you really want to say?
GRIFFIN: I would say that Paula Abdul appears to be under the influence of really enjoying life.
BEHAR: She says that she has pain medication or something I believe...
GRIFFIN: I believe her.
BEHAR: ... something simple like that.
GRIFFIN: Oh, if she is saying she has pain medication, I`m agreeing with her.
BEHAR: But you know I`ve loved her on "American Idol" just to -- I thought she was good on that show.
GRIFFIN: I don`t think it`s -- I don`t think it`s -- I think it`s a big mistake to not having her back.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: And considering what they pay those boys and in the book I actually talk a lot about sexism in Hollywood.
BEHAR: Right.
GRIFFIN: And you obviously know that game.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: I mean, I`m sorry but I think it`s appalling that Seacrest makes $45 million and I think Paula made $3 million. And obviously, $3 million is an amazing living but so she gets a tenth of what the guys get? A 12th of what the guys get?
BEHAR: Well, I think that he was getting $45 million for various jobs.
GRIFFIN: For various jobs.
BEHAR: It wasn`t just the one thing but still...
GRIFFIN: But still...
BEHAR: Right.
GRIFFIN: ... she is a big reason people watch that show and she definitely was one of the big reasons I watched it.
BEHAR: Me too because...
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: ...you need somebody nice...
GRIFFIN: ...and you`d never know what she`s going to do...
BEHAR: ...and that somebody who would maybe come on to the kids. It was great.
GRIFFIN: And she might not be able to hold her head up.
BEHAR: So now you`re talking about sexism in Hollywood.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Why in Hollywood? It is all over the place.
GRIFFIN: Well, in standup comedy -- I can`t believe how bad it still is. Meaning, when I was a kid and Joan Rivers took over "The Tonight Show," I really thought ok this it...
BEHAR: Me too.
GRIFFIN: Here we go it`s going to be 50/50. And that there isn`t a female in network late night to this day; in fact if there was one, Joan Rivers and then never again...
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: ...is mind-blowing to me.
BEHAR: Yes, well, you know, after she took, she had her own show and she didn`t tell Johnny Carson that she was getting her own show...
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: ... the patriarch was upset.
GRIFFIN: Right.
BEHAR: She was banned from those shows also.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: She was only recently invited back I think on Letterman maybe once or two over the last what -- 20 years.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes, so she was banned also...
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: ... is that a female thing that they ban women?
GRIFFIN: It`s a female thing. Yes.
BEHAR: Only women?
GRIFFIN: I believe, look as far as having those shows, I believe it is a woman thing.
BEHAR: Well, that`s true...
GRIFFIN: And even the clubs.
BEHAR: But the banning...
GRIFFIN: The banning, I don`t know about the banning part.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: But I mean, I think a lot of these guys in late night don`t necessarily know what to do with a woman. If you are not the hot chick I`m not sure if they know quite what to do with you.
If you are not the starlet coming on and you`re short dressing -- our TV show is like a family. One time we played this joke where we switched cola for coffee. You know awful.
BEHAR: They love that.
GRIFFIN: They love that stuff.
BEHAR: But with a woman comedian, I guess it is too much power that we have.
We have the mike, we`re funny. It`s not easy to deal with.
GRIFFIN: There is that whole thing too.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: If you have people that -- genuinely think chicks are funny. And so when I do my shows -- like you I perform for a lot gay guys, a lot of women.
And I can tell you how many guys come out to me and say well, you know, my wife kind of dragged me here and I didn`t want to come but you are really funny.
BEHAR: Do you think that there`s less sexism amongst women? Is there camaraderie amongst the women comedians?
GRIFFIN: Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I mean, you know what; there`s a few of us vying for a few jobs, let`s face it, we`re all fighting for a handful of jobs.
So sometimes girl on girl crime can be the worst. But I think ultimately, I mean, luckily I have been lucky enough to have a lot of girls help me along the way.
I mean, when I started out, the first week I even did stand up, which was in a coffee house, Jeanine Garofalo and Margaret, Cher was there...
BEHAR: Well, they`re feminists the two of them.
GRIFFIN: They`re what?
BEHAR: They`re both feminists.
GRIFFIN: They`re feminist...
BEHAR: So they`re going to be good for you.
GRIFFIN: ... and also, they were -- exactly right. They were very helpful. But I love all the gals. I love Chelsea Hendler (ph) and I love Sandra Bernhardt, and I love Joan Rivers.
BEHAR: What about Ellen DeGeneres?
GRIFFIN: I love her.
BEHAR: But you were a little nasty in the book against her.
GRIFFIN: Well, I told stories about her that was my experience when I was on her show.
BEHAR: What happened to you?
GRIFFIN: I just thought she really kind of ruled that set with an iron fist in a way that was a little like -- it took me back a little bit.
BEHAR: Well, but if she were a man you wouldn`t be saying that. You`d say she was very strong and tough.
GRIFFIN: Well, I thought she was -- what she did is I felt like she sort of had me perform like a circus monkey...
BEHAR: Oh really?
GRIFFIN: ... which normally I am happy to do.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, it`s worth a banana...
GRIFFIN: I do have little cymbals attached to my fingers at times. But no, I`m a big admirer of her and all that she has accomplished. Although I think I am currently banned from her show.
BEHAR: Really.
GRIFFIN: I think there`s a current banning happening here.
BEHAR: Oh they`re going to lift it again.
GRIFFIN: I have not been on in like three years.
BEHAR: They`re going to lift it again. You know what, you do just fine.
GRIFFIN: Ok.
BEHAR: And you`re not on the "D" list anymore so that`s going to count. You are an "A" list person and to be on the "D" list it sounds wrong.
GRIFFIN: I think you`re just saying that because you have to because I`m sitting across from you.
BEHAR: No it`s true. I mean, I see you everywhere.
And you have a huge gay following.
GRIFFIN: Oh, thank God for gays.
BEHAR: Now, what do you think that is about?
GRIFFIN: I -- well, it`s kind of like you, right? I mean, it seems like I just get along with gay guys. I didn`t -- I didn`t -- really have to put any effort into it which is all like, I just have a gay guy in me inside...
BEHAR: I remember in the early days when I first saw that the gay audience was easier to deal with. They were downtown below 14th Street and they got...
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: It`s like geography for you?
BEHAR: Yes, but it was. Because when I went uptown and became more hetero and it got harder to do because then you had to deal with guys.
GRIFFIN: Yes, I found that -- I call them the unchuckable gays because they are already in a minority that has to struggle and they already feel like sometimes being on the outside looking in and that`s really what the "D" list is.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: So I think that`s why I do well with gay audiences and love gay audiences. And for me, the kind of standup I do -- what am I going to say to a gay person that they haven`t heard.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: There`s nothing I can say. I don`t get a lot of gasps unless I mention going to Cher`s house. And they get excited.
BEHAR: But somebody once said to me, Joy they don`t really admire you they want to be you? What does that mean?
GRIFFIN: Well, and vice versa. There are a lot of gay guys I would love to be. I think my life would be a lot easier if I was just a hot gay guy.
BEHAR: But who do you think has a bigger fan base? You, Cher, or ...
GRIFFIN: Cher.
BEHAR: ... Larry Craig?
GRIFFIN: Ok, Larry Craig. He has more of a niche crowd but they are very passionate.
BEHAR: Ok, when we come back, we`re going to have more with Kathy -- with Kathy Griffin. Just stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We are back with the very funny Kathy Griffin -- I do remember your name.
So you know a lot of things in your book are serious.
GRIFFIN: Oh yes. This book hits you with a few serious topics that maybe you didn`t expect.
BEHAR: I did not expect to find out that your brother was a pedophile.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Now, tell me, what do you mean?
GRIFFIN: All right. Here`s the deal. You know, I am writing a memoir. And I think that if people are going to put down their hard earned money then they should get something they can`t see on the "D" list or don`t see if they come see me live or whatever.
And so I had to write about the serious stuff too. And I was torn; part of me wanted to make it just a humor book.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: And I thought the type of books that I really like are the ones that are honest and forthright.
In fact, Barbara Walters` "Audition" was one of them.
BEHAR: Right.
GRIFFIN: And I thought that was a great book.
BEHAR: She was very honest.
GRIFFIN: And she was very honest in revealing; and Joan Rivers` "Enter Talking"...
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: ... and Paula Deen`s first book and all about the cooking. And so -- those are the type of books I like to read and so I had to talk about my eldest brother, Kenny, who has now passed away and he was a pedophile.
BEHAR: How did he die?
GRIFFIN: He actually -- oh, so awful. He was homeless and he was a crack addict and lived on the streets for years and he actually died in my mom`s arms.
BEHAR: Sad.
GRIFFIN: Very, very sad; and lived to be, I think, 60 years old.
BEHAR: So when you`re saying he was a pedophile, did he molest children?
GRIFFIN: He, yes.
BEHAR: He did?
GRIFFIN: Yes, that`s what a pedophile is.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: But you don`t say that exactly in your book.
GRIFFIN: Oh, well, that`s what I mean. And it was, look, it is a serious thing.
BEHAR: But you say he got into bed with you when you were a little girl.
GRIFFIN: Yes. I mean -- here`s the deal. It started when I was a little kid like under ten years old and this guy was 20 years older than I. He would get into bed with me and whisper sweet nothings in my ear.
BEHAR: Did he touch you?
GRIFFIN: No, not that I recall. But what I mean is if you walked into a bedroom and you saw a 7-year-old kid and there was a guy 20 years older than her in bed, cuddling with her, whispering sweet nothings in her ear...
BEHAR: It`s creepy.
GRIFFIN: It`s creepy. Exactly.
BEHAR: It`s creepy.
GRIFFIN: Exactly.
BEHAR: But I don`t know that he molested you.
GRIFFIN: No, no. I don`t know what the word is, by the way, and I`ve never used that word for me.
BEHAR: I understand.
GRIFFIN: I always say sexually inappropriate because I don`t really know what to call it and different people can call it whatever they want.
And I have talked to various experts about this topic. And one thing they have talked to me a lot about was the denial often that comes along with that crime.
And I also remember, I am 48. So we`re talking 40 years ago. I mean, we almost didn`t have the word pedophile then, you know.
BEHAR: No. That was before Oprah and Phil.
GRIFFIN: Right.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: Exactly. And so -- and so then later on in two of his long-term relationships, both of those women separately told me about him molesting kids...
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
GRIFFIN: And then many years later, I became estranged from him and it was a very divisive thing in my family. And my dad said you know, why are you completely estranged from Kenny and I said, "Well, dad. I believe he is a pedophile. And that`s why."
And my dad finally confronted him later on in his life and said, "Kathleen thinks you`re a pedophile." And my dad response was -- I`m sorry -- my brother`s response to my dad was, "I do what I do."
BEHAR: Oh. So he admitted it pretty much.
GRIFFIN: Well, look if someone accused me of being a pedophile, my answer would not be "I do what I do."
BEHAR: Right.
GRIFFIN: So, it`s a very sort of amorphous thing. It`s a crime, to me, often that does not have the witnesses come forward. I actually called the LAPD on him one time and tried to get them to investigate. They told me that they couldn`t because they needed the kids to come forward.
I had the address of the apartment that he was managing. I tried to get them to go ask. It is a big thing to deal with and it actually had a big influence on me.
Everything from probably...
BEHAR: Well, it`s scarring. I think it scars you without really getting to the point of it. You don`t know what it is.
GRIFFIN: And it is all about the secrets.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: And my act is all about blurting out everything and no secrets and sort of revealing everything. And so when I wrote this book, I couldn`t really write a book without writing about him. That was the most difficult part for sure.
BEHAR: Did you tell your mother?
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: When you were little?
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: What did your mother say?
GRIFFIN: My mom and dad still like, they didn`t really know quite what it was and couldn`t quite put it together. It is a very tough thing.
BEHAR: It is like the priest scandal where the priest would just so often...
GRIFFIN: Well, I had a gay priest cousin, who died of AIDS.
BEHAR: Well, gay -- it doesn`t mean pedophile, you know.
GRIFFIN: No but he was also moved parish to parish to parish. And there was always sort of rumblings when I was a kid. But once again, you know...
BEHAR: So he was a cousin.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: So there is something in your family.
GRIFFIN: So maybe. I don`t know. I`ve always wondered.
That is a big part of the book. I`m just not a big secret keeper. I don`t think secrets ever work. I think they just fester.
BEHAR: It is not like you to really not talk about things. It`s good that you did.
Let`s talk about your husband for a minute because I have met your husband. He seemed like a very nice guy.
GRIFFIN: Yes. He`s nice.
BEHAR: What happened? You were so happily married there. For one, he was in the car with you on the D list.
What happened?
GRIFFIN: I was actually quite happily married. There is a part and then I think that there was some, you know, financial improprieties that happened.
BEHAR: Yes. He stole some money from you.
GRIFFIN: $72,000?
BEHAR: What did he do with it? Did he buy a car?
GRIFFIN: To this day I don`t know. Which is so interesting to me...
BEHAR: How did you find out?
GRIFFIN: My accountant called.
BEHAR: Oh, your accountant called.
GRIFFIN: My accountant called and said...
BEHAR: Did you confront him?
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: what happened then?
GRIFFIN: At first he denied it and then he said it was me. I said they told me that the bank has a tape of someone taking my ATM card, going up. And so, I said, look apparently there is a tape. If there is a tape you might as well tell me before someone at my accountant`s office sees it.
BEHAR: So are you divorced? Or separated?
GRIFFIN: I was stunned. We`re totally divorced.
BEHAR: Do you have to pay him alimony? California is so crazy about that.
GRIFFIN: Can I tell you -- honestly it was not about the money. And it was so funny because the first person I talked to about -- not the first person but on TV, I talked to Larry King about it.
And he was talking about the money and the dollar amount and honestly it really is about the trust.
BEHAR: Of course.
GRIFFIN: I started to question everything and do I really know him. Did I ever know him? Why did he lie about this? You know this happened for over a period of about two years.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: Two years. Going into my wallet when I was asleep, taking my 2 ATM cards, going and withdrawing $1,500 and them putting them back in the wallet before I woke up in the morning.
BEHAR: It`s like -- it`s a betrayal.
GRIFFIN: Yes. And it`s bizarre and I couldn`t figure it out. I didn`t know why he needed it or what he wanted for it. He never showed up with a Rolex watch.
BEHAR: So are you off marriage now forever?
GRIFFIN: I`m kind of off marriage.
BEHAR: You`re off marriage and there are single guys out there - - Ryan O`Neal -- people like that are available. Are you interested in him?
GRIFFIN: Yes. I think that would be very healthy. Or Alana Stewart (ph) for a lesbian tryst.
BEHAR: I think so. It could turn you into a lesbian, that type of affair with your husband. If somebody goes into my bank account, I am down with the girls.
GRIFFIN: That`s right. I`m Kathy Orman. Say hello to Kathy Orman.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back with the real Kathy Griffin. Or will we? Find out what I mean when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: And I`m back with a woman who has a tongue that could cut you.
And speaking of cutting, Kathy, you had plastic surgery that almost killed you.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: What was it?
GRIFFIN: By the way, I call it dental work.
BEHAR: Why?
GRIFFIN: That is my code in Hollywood.
BEHAR: Is that what they all say in Hollywood? Dental work.
GRIFFIN: I think a few of the "Desperate Housewives" have been to the dentist a couple of times. I think everyone has actually been to the dentist.
Anyone over about -- you know, like there is somebody on the hills that has like lip plumping. So everyone goes to the dentist.
BEHAR: Oh, I don`t think it has -- it`s to do with age anymore.
GRIFFIN: It used to.
BEHAR: Yes. But not anymore. Now just people just have to be looking exactly how everybody else looks.
But I mean, you had a little problem with plastic surgery and then you did it again. Why did you do it again when you almost died from it?
GRIFFIN: Because I am insecure and I want to be better. In fact, I`d like to be Jennifer Aniston.
BEHAR: But you look very good and you`re not going to be Jennifer Aniston.
GRIFFIN: But I want to be Jennifer Aniston.
BEHAR: Why?
GRIFFIN: Because then my life would be better and I`d be happier than I had ever been.
BEHAR: Why? You think she`s so happy? She doesn`t have a boyfriend half the time.
GRIFFIN: So pick somebody else. I want to be somebody from the hills.
I want to be one of the Kardashians. How`s that?
BEHAR: No you don`t.
GRIFFIN: Yes, I do. I want to be Khloe.
BEHAR: But what...
GRIFFIN: There, you didn`t see that coming. You thought I would say Kim.
BEHAR: I didn`t. You know what, I don`t even know who they are.
You think that everybody has to have surgery. You say that Lisa Kudrow dyed her hair blond, got a boob job and became a star overnight and then she got "Friends."
GRIFFIN: I`ve never seen anything like it. It was fantastic.
BEHAR: But do you really think that did it.
GRIFFIN: Oh yes. I mean look -- I love Lisa. She`s obviously very talented. I knew her sort of from the audition circuit. And then she was auditioning and auditioning -- not really getting a break.
She and I auditioned for "Saturday Night Live" together. We both didn`t get the job. And I said, this girl`s so talented. I swear to God - - she got a nose job, dyed her hair blond, and then boom, she was on "Cheers", she was on "Mad About You" and then she was on "Friends"; skyrocketed to fame.
I don`t think it hurt.
BEHAR: So it really does help.
GRIFFIN: I don`t mean to bother any of the camera people, especially the PA. I`m sorry, are you taking coffee orders.
BEHAR: They are a chatty group here. I was reading that one of the girls from "Saturday Night Live."
GRIFFIN: I would like a latte with non-fat milk. Even the comedians -- come on you have to keep up appearances.
BEHAR: I have botox and restolin (ph). I will shout it from the rooftops.
I don`t really care if anybody knows it. Why is it such a secret with people? And how come comics always tell it?
Roseanne told it. Joan told it. Phyllis Diller told it.
GRIFFIN: Because we can`t keep a secret because it`s too funny.
It`s too ridiculous.
BEHAR: Exactly.
GRIFFIN: The whole process -- the whole idea that there is a celebrity door at these plastic surgeons` office in Beverly Hills and you have got to do the celebrity knock and they know you are famous by how many knocks. I always just stand out in the hall saying it`s Kathy Griffin, let me in.
But I can`t get in the celebrity door, it`s a disaster.
BEHAR: I know. It`s horrible.
GRIFFIN: But there is a whole culture of plastic surgery. I am on the D List in the plastic surgeon`s office.
I think all women want to -- I talked to Bette Midler she said all women want to look better. I don`t care who they are and what they do.
BEHAR: Yes, everybody wants to look good.
GRIFFIN: And I`m a victim as much as anything.
BEHAR: Are you going to talk about me in your next act? That I was annoying in some way?
GRIFFIN: I`m going to say...
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: What are you going to say?
I was stunad (ph).
Stutgard is a guy I dated in college. Stunad is an Italian word which means you are out of it.
GRIFFIN: Ok. So I`m going to say that I was with you and that you were stunad.
And also I`m going to say that your -- what do you call your boyfriend?
BEHAR: My spousal equivalent, Steve.
GRIFFIN: You are worse than the gays. LGBTQ, spousal equivalent?
BEHAR: That`s what he is. He is a spousal equivalent without being a spouse.
Thank you, Kathy Griffin. Kathy`s new book, "Official Book Club Selection" -- that`s the title of the book -- is in stores now. Thanks, Kathy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: I am a little nervous because we have just done one of our -- as Joy calls -- blocks and she mentioned being stunad and I don`t know what that is. But I have a little diarrhea thinking about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Ok. I love this guy. He`s a captain of the TV industry. He produced and co-created a little megahit called Seinfeld and then created a starring vehicle for him. Let`s take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Joining me from HBO`s "Curb Your Enthusiasm." My pal, Larry David, welcome to the show, Larry.
LARRY DAVID, PRODUCER AND CO CREATOR OF SEINFELD: Thank you.
BEHAR: Does it feel like old times being here with me?
DAVID: In the sense that we work together?
BEHAR: Yes. In 19 --
DAVID: I don`t think I have sat across from a desk from you.
BEHAR: No but you`ve sat across a table because in 1987 when I was doing a some show called Wales Broadway for Lifetime, remember that?
DAVID: Of course, yes.
BEHAR: You were writing for me on the show. You use to come over to my apartment with really a stack of notes and concepts. Your mind is always filled with ideas. And then we would work out the stuff. We would then order in and the show would pay for it. You would get so excited. You`re going to put up the check? They`re going to pay for it?
DAVID: You take anything. I have some stuff that I give away, people in the office and nobody -- you can mention like a record from 1972, yeah, I`ll take it. Anything that`s for free, people will take. They don`t discriminate.
BEHAR: No matter how much they have. They still want it.
DAVID: They`ll want it! Yes. It`s the best way to get rid of your garbage, really.
The laughter you hear is the staff. They hang around here. We have Hank Galo and Frank Centropadrik. I call them the explorers.
DAVID: Hank Galo is here?
BEHAR: Yeah. He`s here. That`s who is laughing. Galo and Centropadrik we call them the explorers. Don`t they sound like De Gama and Magellan?
DAVID: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: Ok, so let`s talk about stand up.
DAVID: You know I love explorers.
BEHAR: I know you do, well who is your favorite explorer?
DAVID: Well Magellan was good.
BEHAR: I always liked Magellan.
DAVID: Yes, come on -- he circumnavigated.
BEHAR: Yes, it`s a pretty big deal.
DAVID: That was a big thing.
BEHAR: I mean it`s better than just -
DAVID: The others, they just went - went to South America. This guy said I`m going all the way.
BEHAR: I like that.
DAVID: All the way, baby.
BEHAR: All right.
DAVID: We used to do a thing on Pons De Leon.
BEHAR: Yeah.
DAVID: He went looking for the fountain of youth, Pons De Leon.
BEHAR: Right, I remember. DAVID: He got chips for that. He went to the Queen Isabella BEHAR: Yes.
DAVID: And said I want to go look for the fountain of youth, can I get a couple ships?
BEHAR: And she said sure.
DAVID: And she said, yes, put this guy in charge of an expedition. He wants to go look for the fountain of youth. Go. Go look for it, maybe it`s there. Who knows?
BEHAR: So Queen Isabella not that bright?
DAVID: No, I guess not.
BEHAR: I want to show a little clip of you doing stand-up.
DAVID: No. Come on. Seriously. Really? You didn`t run this by me.
BEHAR: Come on let`s just show it.
DAVID: By the way, it`s freezing here.
BEHAR: I know its freezing.
DAVID: That`s why I`m wearing this thing. That`s why my collar is up.
BEHAR: I have been in menopause for 13 years.
DAVID: What is this clip?
BEHAR: Let`s see it.
DAVID: No, let`s not see it.
BEHAR: Come on -
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID: Chuck Scarborough, who is the -- he`s like the anchor man, siding guy. He`s the kind of guy you like to play tennis with. Because he`s like such a nice guy. You know, you could cheat the pants off him. It`s no good, Chuck. Forget it, it`s out. He`s not going to argue with you this guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID: What was that -- I didn`t hear what I said?
BEHAR: Doesn`t matter, doesn`t matter what you said. I can`t believe they dug that up.
DAVID: What the hell was that?
BEHAR: That`s you, I guess.
DAVID: Yes.
BEHAR: You look better now. You`re so cute now.
DAVID: That young Larry resents that. Yeah. Last night, somebody came up to me and said, my god, you look so much better in person than on TV. I said what is that? Is that supposed to be a complement? I look like a dog on TV? I don`t get that.
BEHAR: They fix you up for television, so you should look better.
DAVID: Yes.
BEHAR: I remember you from the old days of "Catch." a rising star. And you were what you call a temperamental comic.
DAVID: Yes, temperamental.
BEHAR: You would get on - do comics always love to come into the room and say Larry is getting up. Everybody would look at the watches and see how long you would last.
DAVID: They didn`t know if I was going to have a breakdown on stage. Yes, you didn`t know what was going to happen.
BEHAR: What would happen if you didn`t get the first laugh, say?
DAVID: I didn`t -- I don`t like adverse -- I don`t react well to adversity. I`m a baby, you know. Really, almost the way John McEnroe used to be when he played tennis if a call went against him. If a person -- I could be doing great. If I saw one person talking, I`d go hey, hey, you. Oh, look, you don`t like this? It`s not good? You want to talk? I can`t do this. I`m getting out of here.
BEHAR: So that stops your act?
DAVID: One time, I have done this before. I`m on stage and I looked at the audience and I`m like, I don`t think so.
BEHAR: Just the way they looked.
DAVID: Just the way they looked. And I left. Yes.
BEHAR: I know. We always thought you were brilliant. You had funny bits and used to talk about how, you know, we were talking about before. Come on.
DAVID: The other thing. If Magellan gave me a complement, I still would have been his friend -- that sort of thing.
BEHAR: If Magellan was here now and he said Larry, you looked handsome.
DAVID: Oh really, oh. I`ll talk to Magellan. My god, that`s so sweet of you. Thank you very much. Really, I`m blown away. I Really, I am.
BEHAR: Here is the Larry David thing. You get annoyed with the audience. It`s a catch 22. How do you breakthrough that.
DAVID: They are your lover. If the lover rejects you, you yell at them.
BEHAR: I always saw that person who was never laughing as my father. Held never laugh. I`d be scared and never want to go on anymore. Maybe there`s a mother issue there.
DAVID: No, not mother, I saw the audience as a woman. Not my mother.
BEHAR: Not your mother?
DAVID: No, no. Please.
BEHAR: Like a girlfriend?
DAVID: No, someone I want to become my girlfriend. Someone I`m flirting with who I`m going after.
BEHAR: I see. If we take you now, you are hugely successful now, everybody knows you. You have enormous fans. Women are flocking to you now.
DAVID: Now, I treat them like my ex-wife.
BEHAR: There`s no winning with you.
DAVID: What were you going to say? I interrupted you?
BEHAR: That`s fine, you were going well. You didn`t have money those days.
DAVID: No.
BEHAR: you didn`t have cab fare. You were living in the dungeon for actors, Manhattan Plaza. Now, you have money. You are successful. You mad a lot of money on "Seinfeld." I`m not talking my kind of money. Your money. Big money.
DAVID: Let`s not forget, I got divorced.
BEHAR: I know. California, she took half, didn`t she?
DAVID: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s outrageous. You are the one who is funny and made all the money. Why does she get half? You must have got hit with the economy.
DAVID: I really don`t have anything near --
BEHAR: It`s still good.
DAVID: I`m not complaining.
BEHAR: No, don`t complain about it. Michael Moore was on --
DAVID: Now, somebody asks me and I have to ask my kids because it`s their money.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
DAVID: Because it`s their money.
BEHAR: Michael Moore was on "The View" with me. He really hates capitalists. Don`t you feel like he hates you now? You are a capitalist with tons of money.
DAVID: Yes, he has tons of money, but he has compassion.
BEHAR: Oh he has compassion. Why doesn`t he give some of his money away then if he has so much compassion?
DAVID: You don`t know how much he gives away. He could be giving away that money to charity --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You think so?
DAVID: Yes, I do.
BEHAR: All right.
DAVID: Don`t (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Michael Moore to me, baby.
BEHAR: I`m sorry; I didn`t know you were so attached to Michael Moore.
DAVID: I think Michael Moore is a hero.
BEHAR: He is he`s very good. We love him but I`m just saying.
DAVID: I love him.
BEHAR: Yes, all right, we`re going to be back with more of Larry David. So don`t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We are back with the treat Larry David in the new season of "Curb." you have arrange for a "Seinfeld" reunion.
DAVID: Yes.
BEHAR: All right let`s take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Why would we do something like this? I remember you talking about whenever a sitcom does a reunion episode aren`t it pathetic. Either pathetic desperate.
Desperate?
When we would watch other shows did reunion shows, you would look and make that face; you know that judgmental face of yours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Who did you call first? Did you call Jerry first?
DAVID: Jerry.
BEHAR: Then who?
DAVID: People ask that question. I`m not telling.
BEHAR: Why did you decide to do it, now? The reunion?
DAVID: I had the idea a few years ago. But then, hurricane Katrina came along and I thought of the idea about taking in the blacks, which became the ark for that season.
BEHAR: Yes.
DAVID: That seemed topical to coincide with Katrina. You know I needed to exploit that tragedy any way I could.
BEHAR: As only you could.
DAVID: So, then I did that. I still had the idea and I thought this season, maybe we could do this. But was a very ambitious thing to undertake, really.
BEHAR: To get them all together.
DAVID: To get them all together and then to get all the schedules down and the sets and write the shows. What the show is going to be. It`s one thing to say you want to do a reunion, but what`s it about?
BEHAR: You are always thinking about those shows aren`t you? Always thinking about the plots.
DAVID: Yes.
BEHAR: And everybody loves to work on those -- on Curb because. They don`t have a script. They improvise and they make it up as they go along within your parameters.
DAVID: Right.
BEHAR: But you haven`t exactly asked me to be on I noticed over the years. I`m just saying.
DAVID: I haven`t exactly or I haven`t asked?
BEHAR: You haven`t asked. Now, one of my spies told me that --
DAVID: Well we have Susie Penal I thought that -
BEHAR: Yes, yes, we are the same person -
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes, but one of my spies told me that Michael Richards is in one of the things. Something about him. I don`t know what it is. Because the information is not out. Could it be that the hysterical craziness saying the "n" word. Is the episode going to be about that?
DAVID: Well first of all he`s not on just one episode.
BEHAR: But one of the episodes?
DAVID: We will touch upon it, yes.
BEHAR: OK. The other thing is, another thing that interested me, NBC thought the first draft of Seinfeld was too Jewish. Is that true?
DAVID: That was one of the notes, yes.
BEHAR: Too Jewish? Who was saying that? Jewish people were saying that, right?
DAVID: That`s usually the way it is. In this case, I think it was -- well he`s no longer with us. It might have been Brendon Cornucopia who said that. I`m not sure.
BEHAR: Would you consider those what they call self-hating Jews? Those people who would say it`s too Jewish?
DAVID: No, I think those are probably people who are concerned about their jobs and maybe they think the show has to be completely generic.
BEHAR: Meaning Gentile -- more Gentile than Jewish that Middle America would relate to rather than New York and L.A.
DAVID: Yes.
BEHAR: But that`s not true. Look at what a tremendous hit it is.
DAVID: Well yes it was -
BEHAR: So what went wrong?
(CROSSTALK)
DAVID: It wasn`t too Jewish.
BEHAR: It was Jewish but it was hilarious.
DAVID: But - wait a second, you`re saying it was very Jewish. Maybe the characters behaved what perceive to be a Jewish way. But --
BEHAR: Yes.
DAVID: That doesn`t mean that it didn`t appeal to everyone.
BEHAR: Right, exactly. Particular to the universal. Just like Mel Brooks appeals to everyone and Woody Allen.
DAVID: Right.
BEHAR: But I mean it`s interesting they would reject it out of hand because they thought it was too New York.
DAVID: They might as well say, if you`re Jewish, don`t send in a script.
BEHAR: Exactly.
DAVID: Because we don`t want to read it and we don`t want you on the shows, either. So go to Israel if you want to act or write.
BEHAR: Go to a sitcom --
DAVID: go do a sitcom in Tealeaves. It`s no good here.
BEHAR: It`s kind of creepy.
DAVID: Yes.
BEHAR: Now, let`s talk a little -- is there anything else you want to tell me about "Curb."
DAVID: No. I have no secrets.
BEHAR: Any little things that are going to happen. I mean you`re single on the show and the Curb Larry is single and the real Larry is single.
DAVID: Yes.
BEHAR: So we are seeing parallels right in the script. So are you meeting other women?
DAVID: I have a couple dates.
BEHAR: In reality or on the show?
DAVID: Hopefully, I will have a couple of dates in reality I will have a date. I have been divorced two years, maybe one I will have a date. But on the show, I have two episodes, two dating episodes.
BEHAR: Two dating episodes - so are you dating anyone in real life?
DAVID: Presently, no.
BEHAR: No?
DAVID: No.
BEHAR: You are loose? Oh wow, I`m putting that out right now for all you women.
DAVID: Yes.
BEHAR: OK Woody Allen -
DAVID: I`m loose and promiscuous.
BEHAR: My kind of guy. Well you came to the right place --
DAVID: I run the gamete.
BEHAR: New York is filled with women who are like that. You think they are more slutty in L.A. or in New York.
DAVID: I was part of the free love hippy thing. The free love and all that -
BEHAR: Yes.
DAVID: And I kept going, where is it?
BEHAR: I know.
DAVID: You know, I don`t see anything.
BEHAR: I missed it, too. The whole sexual revolution.
DAVID: Yes, right.
BEHAR: So resentful.
DAVID: Just passed me by.
BEHAR: I know, we`ll make up for it now.
DAVID: You know why because I couldn`t hang and listen to music. You know? You know? I just wasn`t that guy.
BEHAR: I was home with a kid nursing children and taking care of dependent husbands.
DAVID: I was like, so, what do you like to do?
BEHAR: Conversations.
DAVID: You like baseball?
BEHAR: You used to be shy with women. I remember.
DAVID: I still am.
BEHAR: You are still shy with women.
DAVID: You don`t lose that quality. If you are shy, you are shy. I`m still shy.
BEHAR: Do you think all comedians are like that? We are insecure and shy.
DAVID: Not all. No. A lot of them get right up on stage and hey, you want to go on now. Hey, hello, everybody on stage. Do you want to get up on stage? Yeah.
BEHAR: How do they get that? Where did that come from?
DAVID: I don`t know. I`m so envious.
BEHAR: When I come back, I want to talk a little bit about your past. Larry and I will be back, stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
You want to know what else is unacceptable. It is totally and completely unacceptable that you would grill my daughter, Gracie, about whether I took her to a birthday party and then you call me a liar?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Who`s that?
DAVID: That was Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
BEHAR: Oh Julia Louis, that`s right. Well we`re back with Larry David for our final segment, which I`m dreading already that you have to leave. I am.
DAVID: That`s sweet. Joy.
BEHAR: I love this quote, the more people I offend, and the better. That`s you.
DAVID: I said that?
BEHAR: Yes, you said that. And you had one show where you had to tell a girl that had cancer that you`re breaking up with her, Vivian Fox.
DAVID: No, I didn`t tell her because the doctor beat to it.
BEHAR: I know but you wanted to before, right?
DAVID: I tried to beat the doctor before she got the diagnosis.
BEHAR: Well you and Newt Gingrich have this in common. He told his wife he was breaking up with her while she had cancer. Did you get the idea from Gingrich?
DAVID: Yes.
BEHAR: See that, he was helpful to you. That`s interesting.
DAVID: Yes, very helpful to me. Yes.
BEHAR: They always say that comics and funny people had a miserable childhood. Did you?
DAVID: No, I don`t think I had a miserable childhood.
BEHAR: No.
DAVID: Yes, I used to do a line in my act. I had a wonderful childhood, which is tough, because it`s hard to adjust to a miserable adulthood, you know?
BEHAR: I can relate to that.
DAVID: But I didn`t have a bad childhood at all.
BEHAR: They loved you, you had a bunch of aunts and uncles around you?
DAVID: They loved me -- you know, there`s a -- parents, I don`t know, back in the `50s, whatever, they didn`t love like the way parents do today. Parents today, they`re told -- you tell your kid, you know -- I love you!
BEHAR: I know, I know.
DAVID: They`re so sick of it -- yeah, you love me, shut the hell up already. Yeah, I get it, you love me. And there`s more hugging and all that today. You see it amongst everyone.
BEHAR: But don`t you think it makes kids insecure to keep telling them -- do they really love me or are they just saying this?
DAVID: Who the hell knows. I don`t know. But in my day, I never heard any of that. There was no hugging --
BEHAR: No hugging?
DAVID: No. There was only watching. How`s he doing.
BEHAR: Where is he?
DAVID: He`s talking to a girl, what`s going on there? Oh. You know?
BEHAR: Did they worry you might be gay?
DAVID: Oh, god, no. There was no such --
BEHAR: No one was gay in the `50s.
DAVID: No one was gay and no one was allergic to peanuts.
BEHAR: That`s true. That basically tells the `50s. That`s it about the` 5 `50s.
DAVID: And women had no problems getting pregnant.
BEHAR: That`s because they were under their 30s. Now they`re in their 60s getting pregnant. Will you come back and sit with me again when you`re in New York?
DAVID: I will.
BEHAR: Because this show will be on -- it`s a hit so far. Thanks, Larry. So appreciate you coming on. Great to see you. Don`t forget to watch HBO`s curb your enthusiasm, one of the funniest shows on television, good night and good luck. I shouldn`t say that, that was Edward R. Murrow, but I`ll say it anyway. Easiest interview you`ve ever had.
DAVID: Easiest by far. And probably the best.
BEHAR: Thank you. You were great!
END
