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CNN Tonight
Where are the Jobs?; New Poll Numbers; NATO in Afghanistan; Amanda Knox Found Guilty
Aired December 04, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight President Obama's jobs crusade, the administration optimistic signs of life appear in the job market, but just how good is the news?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any who views today's report as a cause for celebration really is out of touch with the American people.
HILL: Has the sluggish job market really turned the corner?
An exclusive sit-down with Hillary Clinton, the secretary of state selling the new plan for Afghanistan. NATO has agreed to send in new troops. But will it be enough.
HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: We're obviously looking for more commitments. We think more will be coming in.
HILL: And a major threat to the Great Lakes and a multi billion fishing industry, teams of destructive Asian carp threatening a way of life and an entire ecosystem.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All we want is for this horrible, monstrous fish to be kept out of the Great Lakes basin.
HILL: Can the carp be stopped?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN TONIGHT live from New York. Here now Erica Hill.
HILL: Good evening, everyone. Thanks for being with us on this Friday. There is breaking news tonight to tell you about. An American student guilty of murdering her roommate in a so-called drug- fueled sex slaying, an Italian jury convicting Amanda Knox and her former boyfriend on all charges except theft, sentencing the 22-year- old from Seattle to 26 years in prison.
We will take you live to Italy this hour for more on the case including reaction from Knox's parents in the courtroom to hear their daughter's conviction and sentence. That is just ahead.
But first, we do want to focus on the home front tonight and jobs. President Obama once again focusing on the ailing economy, in Allentown, Pennsylvania today hit very hard by this recession. He was there to tout administration efforts to revive this economy. And there was some encouraging news today.
A new jobs report shows the economy shed fewer jobs than expected in November, the best figures in three years and that actually pushes the unemployment rate down slightly to 10 percent. For the millions of Americans still out of work, however, it is little solace. Dan Lothian has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At a local college, President Obama struck a cautiously optimistic tone as he talked about the latest unemployment numbers, a tick down instead of a tick up.
BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is good news. Just in time for the season of hope, but I do want to keep this in perspective. We've still got a long way to go. I consider one job lost one job too many.
LOTHIAN: So days after committing 30,000 more troops to the war in Afghanistan, President Obama is on a road show to fix unemployment. It's carefully choreographed, a tour of this Allentown metal plant.
OBAMA: (INAUDIBLE)
LOTHIAN: Lunch at a local restaurant, and a visit to a career center. Top aides say the president wants to meet Americans struggling in this bad economy and get ideas on how to boost private sector jobs. While he encourages out of the box thinking he wasn't expecting this pitch from a college student.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was wondering is maybe if you checked out some of the statistics about legalizing prostitution, gambling, drugs, and nonviolent crime in order to stimulate some of the economy?
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: You know I have to say this -- well, I appreciate the boldness of your question. That will not be my job strategy.
LOTHIAN: Mr. Obama pivoted to more realistic options like building roads, bridges, and ports. But a turnaround in the job market will remain a huge challenge.
CHRIS ISIDORE, CNNMONEY.COM SENIOR WRITER: Stopping the layoffs is a necessary first step, but getting the employers to be confident enough and to have enough access to money, credit, to have strong enough sales to actually start hiring people again, that's a huge gap to cover.
LOTHIAN: A possible political hurdle for Democrats in the upcoming 2010 elections, but Bethlehem Mayor John Callahan who is trying to win a congressional seat, hopes voters won't discount the stimulus package.
MAYOR JOHN CALLAHAN, BETHLEHEM, PENNSYLVANIA: A lot of talk about the stimulus Bill or the Recovery Act and what it wasn't. But we should talk about what it was and what it was, was also one of the largest middle class tax cuts in American history.
LOTHIAN (on camera): On Tuesday, President Obama will deliver a speech on the economy. Aides say he'll roll out new initiatives to create jobs and boost economic growth, but White House spokesman Robert Gibbs says there will not be another $787 billion stimulus plan -- Erica.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Dan Lothian reporting -- Dan, thanks.
The unemployment report today is being called good. A closer look at the data though still finds the economy struggling. While unemployment is lower, it remains in the double digits. Job cuts are slowing, but they have not stopped altogether nor are many being added, so just where are the jobs for the millions of Americans out of work? Kitty Pilgrim introduces us to one young woman and her strategy in her job search.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Elena Escalona (ph) returned from studying abroad last year with international experience, a great resume, and high hopes. But within months, her first job at a large corporation was eliminated. She started volunteering and worked at a non-profit and estimates she sent out 76 copies of her resume.
ELENA ESCALONA, SEARCHING FOR A JOB: Luckily out of all of this and something that really positive that has come out of it is that I've discovered that I want to become a teacher. And I think I would have never discovered that out of you know this entire year of looking for a job that instead of having a job basically (ph) handed to me, I have really had to fight for it and kind of you know discover where I belong in the world.
PILGRIM: Last month, she found a job as a bilingual tutor but can't take it up until government education funds are released.
ESCALONA: It is opening up and there is such a high need for teachers. And I also think that my generation, I mean, because we feel like we have just been trampled on and stepped on and there's nothing available for us, that this is finally a route where we can find integrity in what we do.
PILGRIM: Eleven thousand jobs were lost altogether last month. The fewest since the recession began. The stimulus bill provided $100 billion for education. The number of jobs in education and health rose by 40,000. The unemployment rate fell to 10 percent from 10.2 percent, still in double digits, and the economy has been losing jobs for 23 months straight. So as the president acknowledges, the good jobs report only goes so far.
OBAMA: I consider one job lost one job too many. And as I said, as I said yesterday at a jobs conference in Washington good trends don't pay the rent. We've got to actually grow jobs and get America back to work as quickly as we can.
PILGRIM: Most disturbingly, nearly six million people have been out of work more than six months.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now Elena is so dedicated and such a strong optimist that she tells us that her adversity will actually make her appreciate a job so much more. She feels the search has increased her appreciation for the job and has helped her find a field that really suits her skills -- Erica.
HILL: Her parents must be very proud to have a daughter who is so positive, especially in the face of this.
PILGRIM: She's a wonderful young woman, and the conversation I had with her is so mature and so well considered and she's so young.
HILL: Yes, you can tell (INAUDIBLE)...
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: (INAUDIBLE) for a lot of folks out there -- Kitty, thanks.
Despite vocal opposition from several lawmakers, many Americans are actually rallying behind President Obama's new war plan for Afghanistan. In fact a new CNN poll finds six in 10 favor the troop surge. However, for the first time since taking office, President Obama's approval ratings have dipped below 50 percent. As you can imagine there is more to this than just numbers. Candy Crowley takes a look at what may be behind those numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Trouble on the home front is eating into his political capital, but the president's hard sell on Afghanistan did the job.
OBAMA: I'm convinced that our security is at stake in Afghanistan and Pakistan. This is the epicenter of violent extremism practiced by al Qaeda.
CROWLEY: The latest CNN poll found that a majority of Americans still oppose the war in Afghanistan, but 62 percent favor the president's plan to send 30,000 more troops there; 36 percent are opposed. In the good news/bad news category for the president...
OBAMA: These additional American and international troops will allow us to accelerate handing over responsibility to Afghan forces and allow us to begin the transfer of our forces out of Afghanistan in July of 2011.
CROWLEY: Two thirds of Americans favor the president's exit plan from Afghanistan, but 59 percent think it was a bad idea to announce it. Despite his success in gathering public re-enforcement for more troops in Afghanistan, the president's overall approval rating has fallen below 50 percent for the first time in a CNN poll.
The latest CNN Opinion Research Corporation poll numbers show 48 percent of Americans approve of the way he's handling his job. That is a seven point drop in less than three weeks. Partially fueling this descent is this -- just 36 percent of whites who never attended college approve of the way the president is handling his job, an 18 percent drop from Americans most likely to work in mining, construction and manufacturing, the three hardest hit areas of the recession.
With his numbers so far into the positives on Afghanistan policy, it is abundantly clear what is dragging down the president -- jobs, jobs, jobs. It is not a wonder he was in Allentown, Pennsylvania, today.
OBAMA: Americans who have been desperately looking for work for months. Some of them maybe for a year or longer, they can't wait. And we won't wait. We need to do everything we can right now to get our businesses hiring again.
CROWLEY: The president is promising to send new jobs initiatives to Congress next week.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: Beyond the obvious urgency of getting jobs to desperate people, there's a political urgency, too. The president can afford to take a hit over high unemployment right now, but congressional Democrats can't. A third of U.S. Senate seats, all of the House seats are up for re-election in 2010, and a 10 percent unemployment rate in the new year is no place to start -- Erica.
HILL: No, it's not, and so much criticism, too. Even just earlier this week, yesterday with that jobs summit, a lot of people saying it's just a P.R. stunt so it'll be interesting to see what those initiatives are that we hear next week -- Candy.
CROWLEY: Yes and how they're going to pay for them, which is going to be from here on out, the other, you know the yen and the yang is like we need to get jobs but we also need to pay for it, so double trouble.
HILL: Double trouble indeed -- Candy, thanks.
Just ahead, NATO pledging more boots on the ground in Afghanistan, but will it be enough or does the U.S. in fact need even more help to win the war?
Plus, American exchange student Amanda Knox guilty of murder in Italy, her family calling the verdict a gross miscarriage of justice -- we'll go live to Italy for the very latest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HILL: NATO today agreed to send an additional 7,000 troops to Afghanistan. All this a part of buildup of forces there, but NATO troops actually play a very restricted role in Afghanistan, and there are questions tonight about just how much help they'll actually be. Chris Lawrence has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Afghanistan, some U.S. troops joke that the coalition's code letters, ISAF should stand for I saw Americans fighting. It's a dig at the restrictions some other NATO countries put on their troops by keeping them out of the most violent areas.
(on camera): When we take a look at the map and look at where the countries are set up, we know that Germany can only operate in the north. We know that Turkey can only operate here. What are some of the other specific caveats that nations have placed on their troops, things they can't do?
JEFF DRESSLER, INSTITUTE FOR THE STUDY OF WAR: There are restrictions on forces that they cannot patrol at night. There are restrictions on forces that they cannot leave their armored vehicles when they patrol. And this is particularly problematic when you're in a counter insurgency fight and the goal is to make connections with the local populous, to walk amongst them, to build relationships.
LAWRENCE (voice-over): The NATO nations have reduced the number of caveats from about 83 to around 70. NATO's former commander in Europe called that progress but not near enough. General John Craddock says some nations ignore the larger war outside their area.
Quote, "they don't want to do anything else, when asked by ISAF to accommodate operations across the entire country." British, Polish, Dutch, and French troops are also fighting in those violent areas, but for some, the clock is ticking on their commitment.
(on camera): So we know the Taliban is very strong here in the south, and that is also where the Canadians -- when I was in Afghanistan just a few weeks ago, I saw the Canadians out on a lot of missions down there with the Afghan army, but they're due to leave in about 18 months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that's correct, Chris. And the thing about that is that if we can't get an additional commitment from the Canadians for a longer stay period what that means is General McChrystal is going to have to find forces to replace the Canadians.
LAWRENCE: Ideally, that would be the Afghan army if its soldiers are up to snuff by then. Now Defense Secretary Robert Gates says he's encouraged by how many of the caveats have already been dropped, but honestly, officials can't push these countries too hard out of fear they'll pull their troops out altogether.
Chris Lawrence, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Now meantime, U.S. and Afghan forces launching their first joint offensive since President Obama's announcement of a troop surge. The goal of Operation Cobra's Anger, disrupt Taliban communication lines and supply routes in Helmand Province. About 1,000 U.S. Marines and 150 Afghan troops are taking part in that operation.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Brussels today for the NATO announcement of additional troops, as was CNN's John Roberts who spoke exclusively with the secretary about NATO's commitment to Afghanistan.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Erica, the Secretary of State got pretty much what she was looking for in her visit to NATO when the NATO secretary general said that he had commitments for some 7,000 new troops to join the forces in Afghanistan. However, that 7,000 number is a little bit squishy because about 1,500 of those troops are already in country. They were there to provide security for the election.
So in truth the number of new troops that would be going into Afghanistan in the next few months would be in a number of more around 5,500. Now the secretary general did say that there may be more on the way on top of that. There was also a lot of talk about timelines in the last couple of days. And the secretary of state has spent a lot of time saying this is not about an exit strategy. This is really about a transition between American and other forces providing security and Afghan forces providing security.
But a lot was made of this in the last couple of days in hearings in the Senate. Now President Obama said that as of July 2011, American forces would start to leave, and he also said the departure of U.S. forces will be based on conditions on the ground. In an interview with the secretary of state today I asked her which one was it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: Both and I think that it is not at all contradictory to say that we're showing the resolve by putting in significant new troops as President Obama explained. But we want a sense of urgency at the same time. Today, I heard from a number of foreign ministers at the NATO meeting here in Brussels about how they think it's exactly the right approach that we want on the one hand to reverse the momentum of the Taliban.
We do not want there to be any misunderstanding that we're working toward the Afghan people themselves defending themselves in the future. And we're looking at this July 2011 date as exactly as you described it. It is the beginning of a transition that will be responsibly done based on conditions. So in some parts of the country by then, we will be able to remove combat troops and give total control to the Afghan security force and others parts not yet, but you know that's the kind of evaluation that will go on.
ROBERTS: Secretary Gates said yesterday before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that there are areas in Afghanistan where you might be able to transition control to Afghan forces at present. Extrapolating from that, it would seem that the first areas of transition will be the ones where there is the least amount of conflict and those are areas predominantly where NATO troops are in control. So when you begin this transition, will it actually allow American forces to come home?
CLINTON: Oh, of course, you know but again, we are going to be looking at all 34 provinces. Some are, as you say ready to be transitioned in our opinion now. Others, there is heavy combat going on. Americans, our NATO allies, other parts of the ISAF troop contributing countries are actually in the fight. But what we want to see is a gradual transition, which may require the redeployment of troops within Afghanistan, but we're confident that there's also going to be the room if we do this right to start bringing home our troops, too.
ROBERTS: This is being described as a transition, not an exit strategy. Ambassador Holbrooke made that point when I mentioned the words exit strategy to him yesterday. Today, in an op-ed piece Secretary-General Rasmussen of NATO said it's a transition, not an exit strategy.
CLINTON: Right, right.
ROBERTS: How is it not an exit strategy? How is this not the beginning of a plan to leave Afghanistan?
CLINTON: Well, because there are really three different elements of our approach. There are combat troops, people who are there you know fighting the Taliban, reversing their momentum. There are trainers of both the security forces including the Army and the police. We imagine that their mission will continue. And then there are all the civilian efforts which we intend to make a long-term commitment to continuing.
You know we've left Afghanistan and Pakistan before much to our detriment. I think during the last two days of testimony, Secretary Gates, who was in the administration in the 1980's, was one of the people pushing to arm and train the Mujahideen to defeat the Soviet Union, made it very clear that we then left, and we left at our peril. So we want to underscore our commitment to the people of Afghanistan and of Pakistan.
Our civilian assistance, our support in a, you know training and logistical support manner for their security forces will continue if they so request. But our combat troops, we will be bringing them out and transitioning to greater Afghan security presence.
ROBERTS: So this will not be as some people have suggested, the U.S. cutting and running from Afghanistan...
CLINTON: Absolutely not, and you know John I want to really stress that. Because our analysis of what happened in Afghanistan and Pakistan very clearly demonstrates that not only the United States but the international community sort of just said, OK, the job is done, Soviet Union is gone, and we walked away leaving a very difficult and increasingly dangerous presence in both Afghanistan and Pakistan, a drug trade that flourished during that time period.
You know there were many problems that you know we -- we had to take some responsibility for, but we did not. So I want to make clear to the people of both Afghanistan and Pakistan that we're looking for a long-term partnership.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: But there are questions about just how effective that partnership with Pakistan can be. Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari is not exactly in a position of strength. And there is a rich history of the Pakistani military leveraging militant groups for its own policy gains. While the secretary of state says that attitude has changed somewhat, it has still not been wiped out of existence -- Erica.
HILL: John, thanks -- John Roberts reporting from Brussels. His conversation though did not end there. A bit later in the program, Secretary Clinton weighing in on the other big news for her this week -- wedding bells for daughter Chelsea.
Still to come, the Asian carp threat -- Illinois taking desperate measures to keep them from destroying the ecology of the Great Lakes, and it's not the only state that's worried.
Plus, an American student convicted in Italy for the murder of her roommate. We'll bring you the latest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN BREAKING NEWS.
HILL: And more now on the breaking news we brought you at the top of the hour. A verdict tonight in the year-long trial of an American college student charged with killing her roommate -- an Italian jury tonight convicting 22-year-old Amanda Knox and her former boyfriend on all counts against -- except theft. Prosecutors argued the two killed Knox's roommate in a sex game gone horribly wrong. Paula Newton is live for us in Perugia, Italy with more on the verdict where the streets were filled as people were waiting for this news, Paula.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTL. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: And the contrast inside couldn't be more different, the judge just passionately reading out the verdict. The other seven jurors not looking at Amanda Knox or her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, and all you could hear was the sobbing of Amanda Knox as she slumped in her chair and was comforted by her defense lawyer.
You know, Erica, Amanda Knox's family had prepared for this, so they had a statement prepared if she was found guilty, and they have told me that they are prepared to move here to Perugia to go through the long and lengthy appeals process. But as you just said, Erica, what was going on in the courtroom and the contrast outside couldn't be more different. People breaking out into applause as the prosecution came through. Prosecution saying they're incredibly satisfied with the verdict, the sentences being 26 years for Knox, 25 years for her former boyfriend. The Meredith Kercher family, too, releasing a statement saying they do believe that in this case justice has been served, but again, Amanda Knox's parents saying that their daughter was convicted with hardly any physical evidence -- they believe no credible physical evidence to tie their daughter to the crime -- Erica.
HILL: And Paula, there's been so much talk here in the U.S. about how different the justice system is there in Italy and that it seemed from the beginning that there was not a presumption of innocence as there is technically in the U.S., but a presumption of guilt. How will that affect the appeals process heading forward?
NEWTON: What is so interesting, Erica, about the appeals process here is that where people who are convicted are able to highlight reasonable doubt and are able to highlight the fact that there was the burden of truth, and that's where the family and the defense lawyers have prepared the family for this and Amanda Knox herself and saying look you must focus on the appeals process. Even if your conviction isn't overturned there's a likelihood that because there was very little physical evidence, your sentence will at least be reduced.
You know the burden though of proof completely different in this country and that's been very difficult for this family to handle considering again, Erica that the jury was not sequestered except for the period that they actually deliberated today, which means all the rumor and speculation about sex-fueled rage and murder, any kind of the nicknames that they were calling Amanda Knox made it through all the papers, made it to all the jury members -- Erica.
HILL: Definitely a very different system -- we'll continue to follow that process and of course follow the appeal -- Paula Newton live for us in Perugia, Italy.
Just ahead tonight, drastic measures to keep a voracious fish out of the Great Lakes, plus President Obama preparing for his trip to the international climate conference as the controversy over global warming grows. Two leading experts on climate change join us to tell us what to expect in Copenhagen.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN TONIGHT, live from New York. Here again, Erica Hill.
HILL: The federal government is looking to keep one species of fish out of the Great Lakes, just one. But, it is a fish so invasive that this one fish alone threatened the region's $7 billion fishing industry and frankly the entire ecosystem. The state of Illinois taking the drastic step of poisoning part of Chicago Canal all the kill the Asian carp. But, is it actually too little too late? Ines Ferre has our report from Romeoville, Illinois.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) INES FERRE, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's an invasion that threatens the world's largest group of freshwater lakes. The Asian carp is known for its impressive leaping abilities, but if it reaches the Great Lakes, it could cause billions of damages to the ecosystem and the commercial fishing industry. In the largest fish kill in Illinois history, environmental officials deliberately poisoned six miles of this canal leading into Lake Michigan to keep the invasive fish out. The carp are usually held at bay by an electrical barrier recently shut down by the Army Corp of Engineers for maintenance.
CHRIS MCCLOUD, ILLINOIS DEPT OF NATURAL RESOURCES: What could be at stake is the multibillion dollar fishing industry, commercial fishing industry, sport fishing industry, and recreational industry in the Great Lakes. It's the largest freshwater body on earth, and we have to protect it at all cost.
FERRE: Tens of thousands of dead fish were scooped out and inspected, including at least one 22-pound Asian carp. Proof the Illinois Department of Natural Resources says others could reach the Great Lakes, less than 40 miles upstream.
Asian carp can grow up to 100 pounds and easily eat up to 40 percent of its body weight daily, devastating the native food chain. Biologists have been tracking Asian carp's northern migration for years. They were imported by private Arkansas fish farmers in the 1970s, but escaped north during flooding two decades later, traveling up the Mississippi River. Colonel Vincent Quarles is in charge of the engineers who built the electrical fish barriers.
COL VINCENT QUARLES, CMDR CHICAGO DIST CORPS OF ENGINEERS: We could control what the fish feels. And basically what they feel is a jolt or a tingle. There's an electrical current, electrical field that's in the canal, being created by barriers.
FERRE: Those barriers are seen by many as the last defense in protecting the Great Lakes.
(on camera): By next year, the Army Corps of Engineers plans to build another electric barrier, here. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Asian carp threat will go away, but they hope that this spot will be as far north as the fish will ever get.
Ines Ferre, CNN, Romeoville, IL.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: And the Asian carp is also a direct threat to the economy of Michigan, which is, of course, is still grappling with the collapse of the auto industry. Governor Jennifer Granholm is vowing to take aggressive measures to protect the Great Lakes from the killer carp. And earlier, I spoke with her. I asked her first if those electrical barriers, Ines just motioned, would really do the job.
(BEGIN VIDETAPE) GOVERNOR JENNIFER GRANHOLM, MICHIGAN: Well, all we want is for this horrible, monstrous fish to be kept out of the Great Lakes basin. If it takes another barrier, whether it's a biological barrier or another electric barrier, whatever it is, whatever it takes, even if it takes shutting down the shipping canal, we cannot allow this fish to come into the Great Lakes. It would utterly destroy the ecosystem of the nation's third coast, which are these beautiful blue jewels that are the Great Lakes that have an enormous economic potential, not just potential, reality with fishing. But these fish, just, they're invasive species. They would just destroy the eco system.
HILL: They are invasive as we've seen, just in migration that they've made and from the damage they have done elsewhere. Looking at that, realistically, do you believe it's possible to keep the Asian carp out of Lake Michigan, because it looks like they're getting so close at this point?
GRANHOLM: Well, they are getting close. As you know, the DNA of the carp has been found now on the other side of the barrier. The poison, they have a fish kill that they did, discovered one carp. That tells you right there that the current system is not adequate to keep the carp out. They have got to -- you know, the whole system has to stop the carp. There has to be multiple barriers to prevent them from coming.
They have -- you know, they've -- they eat their whole weight. They grow to be 100 pound, they grow to be 100 pounds. They're 5 feet long, like the size of a human being. They eat their full body weight in a day. They eat plankton, they eat other species. They completely consume. They're like, you know, they're like Pacman. They consume everything in their path, and you know, we've got -- it's not, I mean, these - the Great Lakes are a jewel, they really are a national treasure.
They have 30 percent of the world's freshwater bodies are in the Great Lakes. To destroy those by this invasive species because we couldn't figure out a way to stop it, would be a complete disaster. I believe we can do it. I know we've got the technology, I know we've got the wherewithal. I certainly know we have the know-how. We should be able to do it, but it's an emergency and we need it done right away.
HILL: One of the issues, too, though, is going to be money, of course. I mean, I know this has an impact, a potential impact, that is very significant on the multibillion dollar fishing industry on the Great Lakes, but there are also the impacts on Chicago and the shipping canals. How do you balance those two and how do you pay for this?
GRANHOLM: Well, there may have to be a short-term shutting of the canal itself in order to find a long-term solution that would prevent the carp from coming out. Clearly, you don't want to have a negative economic impact in the short-term by a permanent closure, potentially, of the canal, but also, the economic impact of destroying the Great Lakes, would be -- you just could never recover that. So really, as you balance it out, you may have to have some short-term pain in order to achieve long-term gain of protecting these blue jewels.
HILL: I know Senator Levin also introduced a bill to try to help out with some of this requiring the Asian carp be listed as a threat. Do you feel, though, that you are being heard in this fight? I know you've joined with some other environmental groups, but you feel the people who need to are hear you are listening to your message?
GRANHOLM: Well, I do believe -- I mean, I know the Army Corps of Engineers very much understands the importance of keeping this fish out of the Great Lakes. I do know that, certainly, the fisheries understand the importance because they would be just completely wiped out. The tourism industry understands it because they would be, obviously, severely negatively impacted.
You know, the money part of it, really, it may cost a little bit of money to erect a barrier that a carp could not pass through, but the results, if you're able to keep them out, are priceless. So, I believe that people understand the economic consequences. I believe they're listening, but I just hope they're listening quickly enough so that we do not have by inaction a major catastrophe.
HILL: We only have about 10 seconds left, but when you say "quickly enough," what kind of timeframe are you talking about?
GRANHOLM: It's got -- yesterday. They have to shut down that canal now in order to prevent the carp from continuing to move out and figure out what the permanent barrier is going to be.
HILL: Governor Jennifer Granholm, we'll continue the follow the story here on our end. Thanks for your time.
GRANHOLM: You bet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Just ahead, the climate change summit in Copenhagen. Can real progress be made? The White House seems to think so, even changing the president's schedule to make him, in their words, "more effective." Plus, a new role for Secretary of State Clinton: mother of the bride. We'll hear just what she has to say about daughter Chelsea's engagement.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: President Obama is gearing up for Copenhagen and the global climate conference which kicks off there next week, but he's waiting a little longer to join the meeting. The White House announcing today he won't be arriving until December 18, the end of the conference, when the president believes he can be most effective. He was originally scheduled to arrive on Wednesday.
Joining me now with more on the conference and climate change, Myron Ebell, who's director of Energy and Global Warming Policy at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. He disputes the belief that greenhouse gas emissions drive climate change. And also with us these evening, Steve Cochran, the director of the National Climate Campaign, which is part of the Environmental Defense Fund. His groups supports cap-and-trade.
Gentlemen, good to have both of you with us.
Myron, I'll start with you. The White House mentioning the president can be more effective at the end of this conference. What, to you, will be an effective outcome of this conference?
MYRON EBELL, COMPETITIVE ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: It would be to say, look, we've spent many, many years, billions and billions of dollars. We haven't gotten very far. The Kyoto protocol is a very expensive failure and we really ought to step back and take a deep breath and figure out something different to do. If you think global warming is a huge problem, then this is an absolute dead end and it's been apparent for a number of years. They need to get off the Kyoto bandwagon or maybe now the Copenhagen.
HILL: What is that something different, though, then, that you would propose?
EBELL: Well, first of all, the cap-and-trade system that the European Union has is not working to reduce emissions, but it is working to transfer a lot of money from consumers to big business special interests. But, I think the first thing to do would be to say maybe regulation isn't the way to go, maybe research and development, maybe encouraging new technologies, opening up markets, having freer markets that reward technological innovation. I think that's a hopeful way to go rather than this kind of red tape and regulation.
HILL: Steve, the red tape and regulation that Myron is referring to, I know you've said, though, you feel real legislation needs to be enacted because you feel we're losing time, here. Why?
STEVEN COCHRAN, NATIONAL CLIMATE CAMPAIGN: Well, I think Myron and I agree, particularly on the idea of rewards for innovation for entrepreneurship. I think that's the sort of legislation that we are talking about. We do think there's a real opportunity here. We're very pleased to see the president going to Copenhagen at the end. We think it's signaling that he's really all in and he's committed; and leadership, obviously is critical in this. And in this case, leadership can help make a deal move forward. I think we need that. This is a global problem. We need global solutions. And then, the second leadership can also make sure it's a deal that's in America's interests. I think, that's a critical thing and I think the president is thinking about it just that way.
HILL: It is such a political issue, especially here in the United States. Do you think it can make real significant progress, especially with the midterm elections on the horizon? Steve, I'll let you start this one off, when it is such a political football?
COCHRAN: It's been interesting to watch. You know, there's been a lot of focus on other issues, important issues, obviously, with the economy and health care, but there's been a lot of work that been going on, actually in the Senate, the House has already passed a bill. The Senate is looking very clearly, and just today nine Midwestern senators, very serious senators, taking this issue very seriously, put forward a set of principles to help guide the administration as they go to Copenhagen. So, there is some serious work going on despite the politics. I think with some leadership and with the commit of senators, like those, today, that we actually can get something done.
HILL: Myron, when it comes to legislation, when it comes to support from politicians, and you mentioned, both of you actually agreeing on the support of new technology, research and development, that could also create fair amount jobs. And that is really what so many in this country are focused on. Are you confident that this is a good way to create jobs in the U.S.?
EBELL: No, I think the global warming scare is a way to take economic activity and therefore jobs out of the economy. I think we're very lucky that the scare has reached its peak and it's now going down and I don't think congress is going to pass this legislation. And I think the Climategate Scandal that has come up the last few weeks is going to make a lot of people rethink their trust in these climate scientists. So I think we're headed in the right direction. We're heading away from global warming alarmism.
HILL: You say -- I just want you to back up for one second. Heading away from what you consider global warming alarmism. But, you were saying earlier you support these new technologies, there's so much talk about how that could create jobs and spur job growth. But, you don't agree with that?
EBELL: Right, well, I think free markets do that. I don't think that government investigation and picking companies and giving them billions of dollars of taxpayer money is the way to get technological innovation. We have had a lot of experience in free markets versus governments calling the shots, and I think every time free markets win. So, I think we need to get government out of this and stop wasting so much money and let clever people respond to market incentives to make money.
HILL: Steve, I'll let you respond to that.
COCHRAN: Well, I think there's an opportunity here that the sort of black and white of this rarely hits the mark. What people are talking about is not what Myron is describing, unfortunately for the discussion. What people are talking about, legislatively, is really trying to put in place a practical system that balances both the need for regulation, in fact, there is a problem called global warming, and we can solve it. There is a problem called dependence on oil, and we can solve it. There's a problem called air pollution, and we can solve it. It takes a mixture of real good solid standards so that people go their air can be clean and that we can protect the environment, and market incentives to make sure that most of the capital is through private investment.
As people make those investments, looking to create those jobs, to create those innovations and those new technologies that really will serve as the basis for our economy going forward. There's a bit of a strawman being put up here. I think we have an opportunity to do things right this time. HILL: As well, there's also a little thing that we have called a time crunch, we're going to have to leave it there. Myron Ebell, Steve Cochran, appreciate both you of joining us with your opinions, tonight and it is a topic we'll continue to discuss.
Just ahead, you can now call her the MOB, or maybe that should be secretary MOB Hillary Clinton proudly opening up about daughter Chelsea's engagement.
And faced down the Taliban, risking his own life to protect those of his fellow soldiers. "Heroes" is next.
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HILL: A major recall of Slim-Fast. Unilever announcing a recall of more than 10 million cans of the diet shake because of possible bacterial contamination. The company says Slim-Fast ready-to-drink beverages can cause temporary gastrointestinal problems. So far, five people have fallen ill. The recall, though, we should point out, does not apply to other product Slim-Fast products.
Chicago police, tonight, investigating a break-in at the offices of former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich's attorney. Police say the burger occurred overnight and that computers were taken. It is not known if any files relate d to the Blagojevich case were on the computer. Blagojevich, of course, is charged with trying to sell the U.S. Senate seat former held by President Obama. That trial, set to begin in June.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has a new title, "mother of the bride." Daughter Chelsea announcing her engagement to banker Marc Mezvinsky and the couple is expected to tie the knot this summer. But, John Roberts is already starting with the question, asking the secretary of state about the upcoming nuptials.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hillary Clinton is not only the secretary of state of the most powerful nation in the world, she is also a mom.
HILLARY CLINTON, US SECRETARY OF STATE: I am. I am officially an MOTB, a mother of the bride. I'm very excited about it.
ROBERTS: So, how does it feel for -- I mean, Chelsea's obviously flown the nest to some degree...
CLINTON: Yes, indeed.
ROBERTS: ...but to be out there and...
CLINTON: You have a daughter.
ROBERTS: I do.
CLINTON: You know that... ROBERTS: And I'm hoping that she waits quite a while before she gets married. She's only 18 now.
CLINTON: And if she follows my daughter's example, she will. And I think that's also for the good, depending on each individual's decision.
ROBERTS: But, no, we're very happy, very excited. You know, it's -- it's -- for me, particularly, an extraordinary moment to see how happy my daughter is and to have such a wonderful young man who will become my son-in-law.
CLINTON: But it's jaunting to be trying to plan a wedding. Madeleine Albright called me the other night and said, well, when I was secretary of state and had not a minute to myself, I had to plan a wedding. So, if you need any advice, just call me. And I said, I'll be calling.
ROBERTS: So, is this going to be the wedding of weddings or will it be a small affair?
CLINTON: Well, we don't know, we're working on it. But, it will be a private affair. It will be for her close friends and that's the way it should be.
ROBERTS: Madam Secretary, it's great to catch up with you, as always. It's been awhile. I hope to do it more frequently in the future.
CLINTON: I would like that, John. I've always enjoyed talking to you. Thank you.
ROBERTS: So, now in addition to everything else that she has on her plate, being such an incredibly busy secretary of state, Erica, she now has to plan for her daughter's wedding.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: John, thanks. And of course she's going to have to choose a dress. Chelsea isn't the only one who has to do that. Campbell Brown is coming up at the top of the hour. Campbell, mother of the bride dress, big deal.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: It is a huge deal. Erica, thanks for that. We are going to be picking up on the breaking news that you have been tracking, as well, from Italy. A verdict in the trial of an American student. Amanda Knox in the murder of her roommate. We have the latest details from inside the courtroom and reaction from those who know her best. Also, Erica, a story every parent is going to want to hear. Why one doctor believes every sixth grader needs to be screened for heart disease. We're going to be telling you about that, as well -- Erica.
HILL: Boy, that will make you sit up and take notice. Campbell, thanks.
Still ahead, one Army sergeant running into enemy fire to protect his fellow soldiers. His story is next.
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HILL: An Army Reserve unit which had soldiers killed and wounded in the Fort Hood shooting rampage deployed as scheduled to Afghanistan, today. Three soldiers in the Wisconsin base, 467th Medical Detachment were killed, six others wounded in the November 5 shooting. That is nearly a quarter of the 36 person unit. Major Nidal Malik Hasan has been charged with murdering 13 people, wounding more than 30 others, and faces the death penalty if convicted.
Soldiers in the 467th said they're determination to serve never wavered in the wake of the shooting.
And that bring us not to "Heroes" which is our tribute, of course, to the men and women who server this country everyday in uniform. Tonight, we honor Army Sergeant James Meltz. Serving in Afghanistan, Sergeant Meltz's convoy was attacked by the Taliban two nights in a row. On both occasions, he risked his life to protect his fellow soldiers. Philippa Holland has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FIRST SGT JAMES MELTZ, U.S. ARMY: You know, the best way to lead is lead by example and lead in front.
PHILIPPA HOLLAND, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): James Meltz has been out front training fellow New York state troopers on new weapons as a fire arms instructor and leading his Army National Guard team on dangerous convoys in Afghanistan. Meltz deployed in 2008 to help train and support Afghanistan security forces as well as distribute aid to impoverished villages. In all, Meltz and his unit conducted 1,100 missions, covering 54,000 miles.
MELTZ: It's very stressful. You never know what you're going out and getting into. You just don't know. You don't know what to expect, so you plan for the worst.
HOLLAND: The night of May 25, 2008. A six-truck convoy escorting Afghan army soldiers in eastern Afghanistan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep firing, keep firing!
HOLLAND: Meltz's team was ambushed by enemy fire. When the insurgents hid behind a wall, Sergeant Meltz grabbed his shoulder fired rocket launcher and destroyed their cover. The next night they were hit again.
MELTZ: My truck was hit with two RPGs. There was machinegun fire coming right at us and I ran directly into the machinegun fire. Bullets were striking all around, all around my feet. I seen them ricochet directly in front of me. They hit the turret of the gun truck behind me. And yeah, my gunner saved my life.
HOLLAND: They fought off the Taliban once again and Meltz made sure every soldier made it out alive. For his bravery, he was awarded the Bronze Star with Valor.
Today Meltz is applying the lessons to Afghanistan to a civilian career in law enforcement. He enjoys the work, but says he misses his unit and stands ready to deploy again, if need.
MELTZ: When I see "Old Glory" flying, it brings chills, it really does, inside me; and I do it for country. And I would do it again for country and that's what it's all about and that's what motivates me.
HOLLAND: Philippa Holland, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Thanks so much for joining us, tonight. I'm Erica Hill. We look forward to seeing you back here on Monday. Don't leave yet, though, Campbell Brown is up next.
