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Healthcare Hurdle; Kidney Transplants Crisscross

Aired December 14, 2009 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Now for a look at some of the top stories we're following right now. The Supreme Court working to decide whether business corporations, unions or advocacy groups should be restricted from pouring money into federal election campaigns. They want to decide if they should have the same rights to free speech, especially during campaign advertising, to use cash to influence elections like regular individuals do.

Brace yourself for longer lines than normal if you plan on sending out those Christmas packages at the post office today. This Monday is considered to be the busiest mailing day of the year. The post office is expecting more than 800 million letters or packages today; 40 percent more than the average.

Citigroup says it's going to return $20 billion in bailout money to taxpayers now. The deal will ultimately free the company from several government restrictions, including pay limits for top execs.

The Senate compromise over health care reform may be in jeopardy. Independent Senator Joe Lieberman says he will oppose the legislation if it expands Medicare. There's a lot going on. So let's get the very latest from Capitol Hill.

And CNN congressional correspondent Dana Bash. Dana, good morning. Lieberman's opposition could actually unravel the Democrats' chances of passing this thing.

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. This landed basically like a bomb inside the Democratic caucus yesterday. What the vis is that Senator Lieberman first going out on television yesterday morning and making abundantly clear that he does not like this idea for allowing people 55 to 64 to buy into the Medicare proposal.

And after that, according to a couple of Democratic sources, he went into talk to Harry Reid in his office in the capitol and said point-blank that if this idea is in the final bill, he will continue to support Republicans' efforts to block this. He will support a GOP filibuster. Why? Well, listen to what he said. This is what he said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (I), CONNECTICUT: I think what's - this Medicare buy-in is frankly another way to try to get to a single payer government-controlled health care system, and I and Senator Nelson think that would be bad for our country and for the people of our country. So I hope that our colleagues will be willing to drop that provision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, here's why this is such a big deal and such bad news for the Democrats, Heidi. Because when the Democrats, 10 liberals and - excuse me. Five liberals and five moderates, 10 of them hashed a very tentative agreement last week to drop a public option. The way they were able to get liberals on board is by including this idea of expanding Medicare.

COLLINS: Yes.

BASH: Well, that is something that as you heard Lieberman simply doesn't like. But you really basically need it to get liberals on board. Because Senator Lieberman is right. They do see this on the liberal side of the Democratic spectrum as sort of another version of the public option. In terms of the hard numbers, if Senator Lieberman is true to his word and if this is the only deal that they can find, they are down to 59 senators who align themselves with Democrats.

COLLINS: Exactly.

BASH: That would put them one vote short of being able to pass health care. So they could be back to the drawing board if Senator Lieberman is true to his word. And I got to tell you, there are a lot of Democrats who are not happy. Already the liberal blogs are exploding with saying that Senator Lieberman should lose his chairmanship.

They're already not happy with him because they feel that he is somebody who was a long-time Democrat, was on a democratic ticket as a vice president in 2000, and this is yet another blow to his former party.

COLLINS: Yes. You know, the numbers are so close. We thought the Heisman trophy vote was close. We just talked to their - (INAUDIBLE). What about Ben Nelson? Tell us about that for a minute. Because he's also a wild card. Not only -

BASH: He is.

COLLINS: Because of the Medicare buy-in - Medicare, I should say, but also because abortion restrictions not being strong enough. He and Senator Orrin Hatch as well.

BASH: Absolutely. He also said yesterday both on television and later I and another reporter spoke to him here in the capitol in the hallway. He doesn't have as bright a line, if you will, on opposing the Medicare buy-in idea. But he also says he is concerned about it. But he's willing to wait until they actually have information, analysis from the Congressional Budget Office, which we should see in the next couple of days.

But on the issue of abortion, as you remember, the amendment that he had to strengthen or make the abortion restrictions stronger, that failed. So he has been working with Senator Reid and the Democratic leadership to see if there's a compromise on that. He's actually optimistic that they can find that. We'll see if that happens.

COLLINS: Yes. All right. We'll be watching closely as the rest of the country will, too. Dana Bash, thank you.

BASH: Thank you.

COLLINS: And next hour, at the White House, the nation's top bankers have some explaining to do. President Obama wants to know how executives can rake in big bonuses while sitting on the money that was supposed to help average Americans.

CNN's senior White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is on that story for us this morning. Good morning to you, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi. Clearly the president is trying to shame the banks into changing their behavior. That is the strategy of the White House. Because without tougher regulations, they really have limited leverage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The White House -

MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Barack Obama is in a tough spot 14 months after American taxpayers bailed out the banks.

OBAMA: I did not run for office to be helping out a bunch of, you know, fat cat bankers on Wall Street.

MALVEAUX: The president supported the $700 billion feast that Wall Street was fed. Now he's lashing out at how some are using their profits.

OBAMA: They don't get it. They're still puzzled, why is it the people are mad at the banks? Well, let's see. You guys are drawing down $10 million, $20 million bonuses after America went through the worst economic year that it's gone through in decades, and you guys caused the problem?

MALVEAUX: Two of the Obama administration's economic advisers also took aim.

LAWRENCE H. SUMMERS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: It was irresponsible risk taking that brought the economy to the brink of collapse.

CHRISTINA ROMER, DIRECTOR, W.H. COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: We know that some of the practices that happened on Wall Street did set us up for what was a very severe financial crisis, and we are all still paying the price for what went on on Wall Street.

MALVEAUX: Tough talk as the administration prepares to host executives from some of America's largest banks at the White House today. Topping the president's agenda, lending. Not only making funds more accessible, but also ramping up the speed at which loans are processed. In turn, giving the economy a much-needed jolt. And the sticking point, government oversight.

OBAMA: What's most frustrating to me right now is you've got these same banks who've benefited from taxpayer assistance who are fighting tooth and nail with their lobbyists up on Capitol Hill, fighting against financial regulatory reform.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Suzanne, aside from all the name calling that's been going on for a while here, it's been a very tenuous relationship between the administration and the banking community, what type of strategy does the Obama team have going forward?

MALVEAUX: Well, really the president is using the bully pulpit, if you will. He's going to be making a statement about the state of the economy. He's trying to get ahead of the debate, if you will. But there are a couple of things that are working against this administration. First you heard the president's frustration when he mentioned that these big bankers are spending millions of dollars when it comes to lobbying against that legislation for tougher regulations.

That is a real tough, tough fight for this White House. The second thing is, is that more of these companies, more of these banks are able to pay back the bailout money. They're eager to pay it back, the bailout money, so they don't have to comply with some of these rules that the administration is putting on them when it comes to executive compensation, the kind of lending that the Obama administration would like them to do.

So it really is a catch 22. Because the White House is taking the money back, the taxpayer money back, saying yes, the American people, you know, we don't have to spend as much bailing out these big banks -

COLLINS: Right.

MALVEAUX: But they may lose their leverage in a way because they don't have to comply. These banks don't have to comply with what that money comes with, the terms. So it's a difficult situation for the White House. The president ends up having to really push, push, push for - you know, for the sake of the American people. And to make that case. It's a public relations thing, if you will. I mean, it really is trying to sell this to the bankers. But it's limited, the kind of leverage the administration has.

COLLINS: Yes. When really everybody at home just wants to get a loan if they're trying to start a small business and so forth. All right. We're going to be talking about it in-depth throughout the morning here. Sure do appreciate it. Suzanne Malveaux in front of the White House.

Well, the president says banks are not lending enough to small businesses. Is he right?

CNN money.com's Poppy Harlow is in New York with more on this. So Poppy, the banks are getting a lot of criticism as we were just hearing for sitting on this TARP money.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Sure.

COLLINS: They're trying to pay it back. Isn't that a good thing?

HARLOW: Certainly. I mean, Suzanne really just hit it right on the head there. She's exactly right. The American taxpayers want their money back. But at the same time, they also want to see increased lending. And the Treasury Department is calling for stronger capital cushions at these banks. So what we did, Heidi, is we dug through the numbers here.

We looked at the 22 banks that got the most TARP money. And when you look at the numbers, they actually cut their small business lending by $10.5 billion over the six months that ended on September 30th. The reason that's so important to note is because small businesses really are the life blood of our economy. They employ more than half the people in this country.

They need to buy and sell goods, and they need credit to do that in order to prop up not only themselves, but also the broader economy. Let's take a look at the numbers here. So you can see exactly what we're talking about. Three of the CEOs who will meet with the president today, the first Ken Lewis from Bank of America. They got 45 million dollars in TARP money. Last week they paid that back with their small business lending that is down five percent over the past six months.

Jamie Dimon from JP Morgan Chase, JP Morgan. Got $25 billion in TARP money. Again, same story, they paid it back but their small business lending is down 2.5%. Let's also focus on Wells Fargo. This is very important. This is actually a bank that is headquartered in California. But you can include it with those Wall Street power houses.

John Stumpf, the CEO there will also be meeting with the president today. This is the biggest small business lender in the country. Their small business lending, Heidi, fell nearly four percent over that six-month period. They have not yet paid back TARP money. That's critical.

Because President Obama may have a bit more leverage dealing with Wells Fargo in terms of compensation and lending because they still have government money that they are operating on. What's also important to note here as I said is you've got conflicting messages to the banks. You have the Treasury saying we want you to have a strong base, a strong capital cushion so we don't see a collapse of the system.

But we also want you to lend more. That's probably if we were flies on the wall inside that room what you're going to hear the bank executives saying back to the president today, Heidi.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And so because you get government money, I would imagine that you have to account for it. And there has to be paperwork -

HARLOW: Right.

COLLINS: That says, here's where the money went. And so I'm sure they're looking at all of that, right?

HARLOW: Yes. I mean, there are to an extent, Heidi. But TARP was passed so quickly, there were limited rules. And you can't go back and change it now. To an extent, yes, the banks have to say what they're lending to small business is. But not totally. Not completely what they're doing. It's a very complicated issue.

And you've got Wall Street saying, listen, we have to pay to attract top talent. And they're right. They do.

COLLINS: That's the trouble.

HARLOW: We talked to three of the - exactly, we asked the three of the big bank CEOs earlier this fall their take on compensation. Let's play you some of that sound right now so you can hear from them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MACK, CEO, MORGAN STANLEY: The mistakes we made were in the way we've awarded people. Too many of our companies in this business reward people on a very short-term basis.

LLOYD BLANKFEIN, CEO, GOLDMAN SACHS: We're going to have to get the compensation system more aligned. Of course, whatever system we had in place, which I thought was pretty good, we're going to tighten up. So if you ask me if I'm going to change it, would I have changed it earlier had I had this kind of wisdom that I have now, of course I would have.

JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JP MORGAN CHASE: I always said about compensation it should be fair, it should be reasonable. You should be able to look everyone in the eye and say you're being treated fairly.

MACK: Compensation is really difficult. As long as people are unemployed, as long as people have troubles keeping their home, I don't think there's anything Wall Street can do to put that at ease.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: I think he said it exactly right there, Heidi. As long as people are losing their homes and don't have a job, what can Wall Street say to put them at ease? A lot more details will follow that meeting with the president starting in just a few hours. It's all going to be on CNN Money.

COLLINS: Yes. It's going to be very interesting. Poppy Harlow, thank you.

HARLOW: Yes. COLLINS: Houston's mayoral race was so close the city had a run- off. But now, the results are in and they are historic. The city's first openly gay mayor. And she's talking with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: History in Houston. It's now the biggest American city to elect an openly gay mayor. And Annise Parker knows her win is a game changer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNISE PARKER, MAYOR-ELECT, HOUSTON: This election has changed the world for the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered community.

(APPLAUSE)

PARKER: Just as it is about transforming the lives of all Houstonians for the better. That's what my administration will be about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Mayor-elect Annise Parker is joining us live from Houston. Mayor-elect, congratulations to you. The final vote was 53 percent for you, 47 percent for your closest contender there, Gene Locke. Were you surprised that you won?

PARKER: No. I would not have entered the race if I didn't think I could win the race. And I've been elected six consecutive times before this citywide in the city of Houston. It was a little closer actually than I thought it would be. The race tightened up in the last two weeks.

COLLINS: Yes, we saw that. Actually, you said, though, in a press conference just the other day that your opponent made some rookie mistakes. And that's why he lost. What did your campaign do right?

PARKER: We had a clear and consistent message all the way through. I had an army of volunteers out in the community. It's not just the 12 years I've served as a public official in the city of Houston, but for the 20 years before that I was an active community volunteer. And I had a network of friends. And they brought their friends.

COLLINS: Yes. In fact, there's something that's been written also in the "Houston Chronicle." I want to put it on the screen for everybody and get your reaction. It says this. "She was the policy wonk, a community activist who had won hard-fought elections for city council and controller and who had been a city official for a dozen years and who, by the way, happened to be gay." So how is the city of Houston going to change with an openly gay mayor?

PARKER: The city of Houston is going to change with me as mayor because I face a very different set of circumstances than previous mayors. And it's a new city. But the fact of my sexual orientation has never particularly impressed Houstonians. And I don't think that had anything to do with who voted for me in this election.

COLLINS: So what does making history mean to you?

PARKER: Well, that was well into the middle of my speech. And that was a statement to my gay, lesbian and transgendered brothers and sisters. I understand that I'm a role model and I have been for a very long time. I understand what it means to many people who have been marginalized. But this election for me was about being the best mayor for the city of Houston.

COLLINS: What's the top priority for you coming in? I guess it will be January 4th when you actually take over for the mayorship. What is the main concern? What's the economy of Houston looking like right now?

PARKER: We are, perhaps, better off financially than any other big city in America. But we all share the same set of problems. We have declining revenues. It's a very, very difficult recession economy. And we have to provide services 24/7.

The basic city services that any city provide can't stop. You have to have your water every day. We have to pick up the trash. We have to have the traffic lights working and the potholes repaired. And there are going to be fewer dollars to do that. The most expensive item for most big cities is public safety. And we have a serious understaffing in our police department. I'm going to have to tackle that very rapidly as well.

COLLINS: I want to talk to you about something. I know you're taking over for the former mayor - mayor right now, I should say, Bill White has been there for a long time. I actually had an opportunity to spend quite a bit of time in your city immediately after Hurricane Katrina, back in 2005. I spent quite a bit of time with the mayor at that point. So 4 1/2 years later you'll be assuming office. What has the impact been of Hurricane Katrina for Houston?

PARKER: We're definitely more prepared for an emergency. And we learned from Katrina. We learned from Rita. We learned from Ike. They were all three very different types of storms in their impact on the city of Houston. We also, I believe, changed our image in the world when we welcomed and sheltered the evacuees from Katrina.

COLLINS: Yes. That's what a lot of people remember about Katrina, I think.

PARKER: We did the right thing. And there were some down sides to that. There was a little social dislocation and there were a lot of folks who relocated to Houston who had a hard time integrating in. Not because we weren't welcoming, but because we're a very different city.

But just as our response to Hurricane Katrina caused the rest of the world to take notice and view Houston differently, I believe my election will surprise some folks. Houston is a diverse, sophisticated, international city. We really judge people on what they can do rather than who they are.

COLLINS: Well, we appreciate your time here. And we'll be watching, obviously, mayor-elect Annise Parker. January 4th is when you'll take office. Thanks so much for your time. Congratulations once again.

PARKER: Thank you.

COLLINS: Sitting on a waiting list and running out of time. We've got the incredible story of how 13 people who had run out of hope for a kidney transplant finally found their match.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Iran will put three American hikers on trial for espionage. That's the word from the country's foreign minister. The three were detained in Iran on July 31st. Their families say they were hiking in Kurdistan but strayed over an unmarked border into Iran by mistake. Secretary of state Hillary Clinton has asked the Iranian government to show compassion in this case.

Tough times for some farmers. Lawmakers from Mississippi and Arkansas are trying to get them help. They say farmers affected by bad weather this year cannot wait for help under existing federal farm programs. The southern lawmakers are seeking $2.1 billion in emergency farm aid. They hope to get approval from Congress by the end of the year.

In this tough economy, your household budget may be shrinking. But in Washington, lawmakers plan to spend more. The Senate has passed a $1.1 trillion spending bill. It features big spending increases for vast areas of the government including benefit programs like Medicare and Medicaid. Democrats say more Americans need the help. Republicans are blasting it amid the growing federal deficits.

13 people dying slowly of kidney disease languishing on a waiting list filled with thousands of names. But with the clock ticking and hope fading, our record breaking operation just turned them into the lucky 13. Dr. Sanjay Gupta has our incredible story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Renee Patterson is looking forward to Christmas. And although there's going to be plenty of boxes under the tree, the most precious present for Patterson this year isn't something from a store. This week she was given the gift of life.

RENEE PATTERSON, KIDNEY RECIPIENT: I've told people I'm getting my kidney, I've told them how I'm getting it, the first thing out of their mouth is wow.

GUPTA: Nine years ago, Renee learned she was suffering from kidney disease. Her kidney eventually began to deteriorate. Because she couldn't find a family match, her colleague, Michael Williams, said he would donate his own kidney. Problem was, Renee and Michael didn't match either. But Renee's doctor knew of a donor recipient pair kidney donation program at Washington Hospital Center. So she and Michael put themselves on a list.

MICHAEL WILLIAMS, KIDNEY DONOR: It was kind of jumping out there on faith. And lo and behold, it's working out for her.

GUPTA: Across town in Washington, D.C., businesswoman Leslie Wolfe was in a similar situation. She was willing to give a kidney to her best friend's husband, Stewart Block. But they didn't match. Lesley along with Stewart put herself on a similar list at Georgetown University Hospital.

LESLIE WOLFE, KIDNEY DONOR: If you can do something that is not life threatening to you that will save someone else's life, why would you say no?

GUPTA: So early this December in an effort to help more patients receive kidney transplants, doctors from Georgetown and the hospital center decided to meld their lists together. Coming up with a 13 way, 26 patient match that would take six days to complete, performing at least two to three operations a day.

DR. JOSEPHN MELANCON, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: All of the recipients had donors that they didn't match with. And they had to receive a transplant via a paired kidney exchange.

GUPTA: Renee, Michael, Leslie and Stewart were part of that 26. And Renee would get Leslie's kidney. On the last day of the operations, Leslie's kidney was removed, cleaned and ready to be transported to Washington Hospital Center where Renee's doctors were waiting to implant the kidney. Stewart had already received his transplant. And Michael's kidney was removed the same day that Renee received hers. By crisscrossing patients, 13 people were able to renew their lives. And 11 of them were minorities.

Doctors say more minorities need to join these exchange programs.

MELANCON: It's very important for minorities to be able to receive living transplants because their outcomes with disease donor are not as good as everyone else.

GUPTA: As soon as Renee is recuperated, she and Leslie plan to meet. Renee realized the sacrifice Leslie made for her. But she also realizes this would have never happened without her best friend by her side. He's saving my life, because I wouldn't have been able to be in this circle. At the same time, he's saving somebody else's life.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Wow. Condition critical. In tough times companies focus on the business of survival. Well, it's not just the recession that puts them at risk.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ANNOUNCER: Covering the angles. Uncovering the details. See for yourself in the CNN NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: Invited to the White House and called on the carpet. Next hour, President Obama meets with some of the nation's top bankers. At issue? That $700 billion banking bailout. He'll scold some of the bankers for doling out big bonuses to top executives, and he'll demand to know why more loans haven't been made available to average Americans and especially small businesses. But the presidential pressure may be limited. Many of the banks at today's meeting have already repaid the so-called T.A.R.P money, so the feds have little, if any, leverage.

And it's those same fat cats, as President Obama calls them, who hold the pursestrings. That means they have to be convinced that lending is in their best interest while remembering survival is job one.

Our next guest says, in fact, companies are facing not only bigger risk than ever, but new ones, too. Joseph Plumeri is a 40-year veteran of the financial services industry. He now serves as chairman and chief executive officer of Willis Group Holdings, Ltd. Joe, good morning to you.

JOSEPH PLUMERI, CHAIRMAN/CEO, WILLIS GROUP HOLDINGS, LTD: Good morning, Heidi.

COLLINS: Hey, if you would, listen with me to the National Economic Council director, Larry Summers, as you know. CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION." He's talking here about big bankers. I'll get your comment in a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE H. SUMMERS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: It was irresponsible risk taking that brought the economy to the brink of collapse. It was their irresponsible risk taking in many cases that brought the economy to collapse. And, frankly, after the Asian financial crisis, after the S&L debacle, after the 1987 stock market crash, after other things that happened, it wasn't the first time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: All right. Joe, I'm the guy sitting at home watching this. I'm seeing statements like that being made where there's still a lot of finger pointing, a lot of history being looked at, which sometimes is necessary. But does it seem like there's more time being spent on that than relationship building?

PLUMERI: Well, I think that the issue that Larry Summers brings up is broader than just a two-minute conversation. The fact of the matter is that there was more risk taking going on. But the SEC allowed the risk taking to go on when they increased the leverage up to 30-, 40-to-1 on a balance sheet. When you've got that much leverage, that means you've got to go out and find things to do with the money. which means you're going to use that money for derivatives, exotic devices, credit-default swaps, which means there's more money in the economy all based upon real estate. Real estate comes down. The whole thing falls apart.

So, yes, there was more risk taking going on. Yes, it was allowed to be done. But there's a lot of people that are complicit in this whole scheme.

COLLINS: Yes. And so obviously, as we've been saying today, the president is going to be meeting with several of those banks, the CEOs. What does he need to say? He's walking kind of a fine line here. He needs to tell the CEOs, listen, we need you to lend to small businesses. We gave you all this money. But now the banks are paying the money back, so what does he say?

PLUMERI: I don't know what he's going to say. But I can imagine that he's got to be saying something like, people don't trust you. The trust factor for businesses in the United States is very low. Fifty percent of the people don't trust government. Thirty-eight percent of the people don't trust businesses. And 17 percent of the people, you know, trust CEOs.

So, nobody trusts business. Nobody trusts anybody. Which, by the way, Heidi, I think is one of the biggest defaults in all of the economic impact and the turmoil that's going on is this whole idea of trust. Nobody trusts anybody. And if you don't have trust, you can't move forward.

He's saying they don't trust you because we gave you all this money, you seem to be making a lot of money, and you're paying yourself a lot of money, and you've got to do something about that. The American people don't understand that. So, you've got to be transparent in the way you define that.

The loans that you're supposed to be giving, which is the reason you got the T.A.R.P. in the first place don't seem to be given. The refinancing of your homes doesn't seem to be taking place. Jobs don't seem to be being stimulated by all the money that's being given. So, the American people are saying, what's going on? I think the president is probably saying, we have a problem, all of us together.

COLLINS: Yes. Yes. No question. Obviously, you would be a good person to ask about this simply because you're with Citigroup or CitiBank formerly for 32-some-odd years. And you have seen this whole transparency and trust in the financial sector sort of erode.

What do you tell the people today? What is going to come out of this today where people go, huh, I'm going to give them a second chance now, and I'm going to start thinking about investing? I'm going to start thinking about that magic word of consumer confidence and spending?

PLUMERI: Right. Well, I think the first thing you have to do is that you've got to be transparent. I think all of this occurred without people being transparent. Nobody knew -- everybody accepted all of the money for the mortgages, but there wasn't transparency in terms of where it came from, whether it was the -- you know, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, whether it was the Federal Reserve that was letting all the money go....

COLLINS: Yes.

PLUMERI: There was not transparency. So when all of this occurred, there was a what went on here? Secondly, there's got to be a sense of transparency in a true sense. Not the lip-service kind of transparency that I think takes place.

I think when I go back to what we said earlier about what the president may or may not be saying to the bankers, he's basically saying that the people have to start seeing that you're doing something to help them. Small business, for example, has a lot to do with unemployment. Most of the people in this country that are employed are employed by small businesses.

COLLINS: Yes.

PLUMERI: Small businesses are affected the most in this economy. If they cannot keep jobs going, more people are going to be unemployed. Those people who are unemployed, if they had health benefits, are now going to not have health benefits, which exacerbates the problem about health reform.

So, it has to do with mortgages, has to do with keeping their homes, it has to do with small business and keeping jobs. And they're going to tell these people, unless you come to the plate and you help -- and you get people to trust you and trust that you're going to make an impact on society and fix all of that, then you're going to have problems with the pay issue forever. Which I think is out of balance, by the way.

COLLINS: Yes. There's so much to talk about. We could have a 12-minute interview, as opposed to the three-minute interview they've given me, and talk for a long time about all of these things.

Joe Plumeri, we sure do appreciate your insights, as always. I'll ask you about Tiger next time around, too, OK? Thank you, Joe.

PLUMERI: I was ready for that one.

COLLINS: Yes. Yes.

As the president meets with top bank executives, many of those banks are rushing to pay back government bailout money as we've said. The latest one to do so is Citigroup.

Stephanie Elam is at the New York Stock Exchange with details now. Stephanie, Citi is paying back the entire $45 billion that it took from taxpayers. So, that's great, right?

(LAUGHTER)

COLLINS: Or not that easy?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It's not that easy to put it that way, Heidi. That's for sure. That $45 billion was one of the government's largest financial bailouts. If you take a look at Citigroup, they're paying back $20 billion. They're mainly doing it by selling more stock.

The remaining $25 billion? Actually, that doesn't have to be repaid. That's money that was converted into a 34 percent ownership stake which the government plans to sell over the course of next year. That actually could result in a nice, nifty little profit for government as well as, and ergo, the taxpayers.

Most banks were quick to pay back their bailout money because it came with strings attached. And the bankers, believe it or not, they like to be able to pay their executives whatever they want. That's a real big issue there. Also, Wells Fargo is the only one of the national banks that has yet to agree to repaying its T.A.R.P. money at this point, Heidi.

COLLINS: The government has to give approval, though, of course, for Citigroup to pay back the bailout money. Which is interesting. Does this mean the bank is on solid footing or not?

ELAM: It means the government is essentially saying that Citigroup is in a strong enough financial shape. But paying back the money will hit Citi's fourth-quarter results. There's no doubt about it.

It comes with another big caveat. It leaves Citi more exposed to potential losses. That's because the government was backstopping $300 billion in possible losses. Now, Citigroup has to fend for itself if its customers fall behind on payments. And a lot of people are still dealing with that.

If you've got an unemployment rate at 10 percent, there's a lot of people out there who are going to have a hard time paying their bills. That's probably likely.

Citigroup shares right now, they are on the downside by close to 5 percent. But if you take a look at the markets overall, we're at modestly higher on the day. Dow up 16 points. 10,4888. NASDAQ better by about a third of a percent at this point.

Obviously, Heidi, everyone's going to be listening to see what comes out of these discussions between the heads of the banks and President Obama to see if there's actually going to be any change here.

COLLINS: Yes. We, of course, will be following that all day long right here on CNN. Stephanie Elam in New York, thank you.

ELAM: Thanks.

COLLINS: A plane crew appearing in a Thailand court this morning. You won't believe what security allegedly found in their cargo hold.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Take a look at our top stories now. Missing for three nights in the freezing cold at 9,000 feet. The search begins again today for hikers stranded in Oregon's Mt. Hood. Two are still missing. Crews already found the body of a third over the weekend. The threat of avalanches forced the search to stop overnight. Ground crews could not take any chances in the bad weather.

A major sponsor dropping Tiger Woods in light of his infidelity scandal. Accenture is the first company to end its endorsement outright. Accenture said on its Web site after six years of working with Woods, he is no longer the right face for the company's advertising. Woods recently announced an indefinite leave from golf to work on his marriage.

And that brings us to today's blog question. We asked if you were one of his sponsors, would you keep him or would you drop him at this point, knowing what you know now? Want to get to some of your responses real quick, too.

Tom writes this. "I don't condone Tiger's behavior, but I do think he's sincere about wanting to put his marriage back together. I don't think he should be punished by his sponsors for doing so."

Yolanda writes, "As a multimillion-dollar sponsor, I would drop Woods because of the negative publicity he's been receiving. If sales are lost because of Woods, he needs to be dropped immediately."

Remember, we always love to hear from you. Logon to CNN.com/heidi to share your comments.

The crew of a cargo plane seized in Bangkok will remain in Thailand for 12 days while an investigation continues. Authorities say their plane was loaded with enough weapons and ammunition to take on a small army. Our Dan Rivers is in Bangkok where officials want to know what their final destination was supposed to be.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This was definitely not what these men had in mind when they refueled their cargo plane in Bangkok. (INAUDIBLE) The four Kazaks and a pilot from Belarus (ph) face up to ten years in prison after their plane was found to be carrying 35 tons of arms from North Korea. The weapons included shoulder-launched missiles and rocket-propelled grenades.

LT. GEN. PONSAPAT PONSCHARQEN, THAI POLICE SPOKESMAN: Generally, we didn't see this amount or kind of weapon before. I think it's really key intention (INAUDIBLE) We will make a case the best we can to see how the other (INAUDIBLE).

RIVERS (off camera): The weapons came from North Korea. Do you know where they were heading to?

PONSCHARQEN: The suspect didn't say anything at the investigation. But they said they're going to tell everything in the court. So, we have to wait for that. RIVERS (voice-over): Police commanders guarded the court as the men appeared briefly. But the case was adjourned for 12 days. All of the men have told police they will deny the charges.

Thai security officials will be closely examining the men's Illusion (ph) Aisle 76 plane for clues as to where the weapons consignment was destined. A strict arms embargo was imposed against North Korea in June after it conducted a missile test and resumed its nuclear program. Since then, repeated attempts by North Korea to smuggle arms have been thwarted by the international community.

In July, a North Korean ship believed to be carrying arms to Myanmar was tracked by the U.S. Navy. The ship eventually turn around. In August, another North Korean weapons shipment was seized by the United Arab Emirates. Possibly bound for Iran.

This latest seizure comes just days after the U.S. special envoy Stephen Bosworth traveled to Pyongyang to try and restart the six- party talks, aimed at ending North Korea's nuclear program. The incident will do little to reassure the United States that North Korea is serious about coming back to the negotiating table.

(on camera): There is a complex web of international intrigue surrounding this plane. We know it came from North Korea, but was originally registered in Georgia. Much of the crew are from Kazakstan. The pilot is from Belarus. It stopped to refuel here in Thailand and was then scheduled to go on to Sri Lanka, but its final destination is still unknown.

Dan Rivers, CNN, (INAUDIBLE) Airport, Bangkok.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: More than 5 inches of rain in less than two hour. You see it there, streets filling with water in the area around New Orleans. Rob Marciano standing by with a little bit more on that and all things weather across the country. Hey, Rob.

ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Heidi. And that's just from yesterday. Today, we've got more rain scheduled for parts of southern Louisiana. We'll talk more about that and the next cold shot of air that's coming down from Canada. Weather's coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: To the Severe Weather Center now and Rob Marciano. We are talking about a lot of rain. I'm looking down there, yes?

(WEATHER REPORT)

MARCIANO: That's just down the road from where my folks live.

COLLINS: Hi, Mom and Dad.

MARCIANO: Yes. Hi, Mom and Dad. COLLINS: Yes. Bummer. All the animated animals I have in my front yard; I've got like four reindeer, five trains, six -- I don't know. I can't count them all. Snowmen. All the rain, if you don't cover up the outlets with like electrical tape or something, they short out. Did you know that?

MARCIANO: No. I assume that -- they're telling me to wrap. If you are telling the truth, I want video of this in the next week and a half of your front yard.

COLLINS: It's interesting. All right, Rob. We'll check back. Thank you.

MARCIANO: All right. See you.

COLLINS: You can call it one man's amazing race, and his goal is to change the world with every step he takes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Right now in Midland, Texas, one man will run the length of a marathon to try to change the world. When he's done, he'll rest and then do it all over again. Our T.J. Holmes has the story of Jonathan Prince.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

T.J. HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's underfunded and overstretched. He says he's been running 44 of the last 59 days, sometimes in the bitter cold. Some days a little less than a marathon, some days.

And it's all for charity.

The donations aren't actually pouring in, but Jonathon Prince just keeps on running.

JONATHON PRINCE, HOPEORDIE.ORG: Damn, it's cold. Woo.

HOLMES: This is Prince's third cross-country trek. His first, back in 2005, raised $20,000 for victims of Hurricane Katrina. Impressive for someone who never ran track a day in his life.

PRINCE: Eleven and a half. (INAUDIBLE). Good job.

HOLMES: This time, he's running for six non-profit organizations.

PRINCE; Right now, I could barely feel my face. You know, it's really cold and I'm really numb right now, so I think about the six charities I'm running for. I think about the people that need help, and (INAUDIBLE) asking the question about "hope or die" on a daily basis.

HOLMES: Prince launched the Hope or Die Project to encourage others to use their natural abilities to give back to the community as well as influence positive change in the world. And according to Prince, if you're not hoping for something, you might as well be dead.

PRINCE: Are you going to have hope, or are you going to let the dream die?

I wanted to run across America to promote hope.

HOLMES: His journey started on October 15 in Santa Monica Pier. His goal is to run across the country all the way to Washington, D.C. by March 27. He's hoping for a big finish.

PRINCE: If we're blessed enough, President Barack Obama will run the last mile with us.

(CHEERS)

HOLMES: But that's a ways off for Prince and his one-man, one- woman team, Michael Hansen and Andrea Batel.

Hansen works in television and Batel worked for an accounting firm. Both Hansen and Batel quick their 9-to-5 gigs to go on the road with Prince. And when their sponsors don't come through, they pay for their own room and board, sometimes sharing a room.

MIKE HANSEN, ROAD MANAGER: Sometimes you've got to take risk. We're out here risking it all in the 30-degree weather, as you see.

ANDREA BATEL, ROAD MANAGER: How often do we get a chance to just leave our jobs, leave all responsibility behind and just go on the road for a movement, something that's positive, something that's going to be uplifting and change our lives as well as the lives around us.

HOLMES: Now it's time for the last leg of today's run.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel good. I'm great.

HOLMES: One of our producers and a photographer followed Prince (ph) to the finish. Our producer then decides to run, too. Then he encourages her to finish.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another day down. Go ahead, honey.

HOLMES: T.J. Holmes, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: I'm Heidi Collins. CNN NEWSROOM continues with Tony Harris.