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Joy Behar Page

Tiger Losing Endorsements; Interview With David Hyde Pierce

Aired December 14, 2009 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on "The Joy Behar Show," when it came to endorsements, Tiger Woods was money in the bank. But since his sex scandal broke, some sponsors are leaving, leaving Tiger with a hole in his pocket.

Then, when Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi isn`t getting slapped with divorce papers, he`s getting slapped in the fact with a statue. We`ll discuss.

And Houston, Texas has a new openly gay mayor. I`ll ask David Hyde Pierce about that and much more.

All this starting now.

Well, we wrapped things up on Friday and thought we had put the Tiger to bed. Well, guess again. Yet another woman is telling her story. That leaves me and my aunt Julie as the only women in America who have not known Tiger in the biblical sense.

(LAUGHTER)

Here to discuss the latest in the Tiger tale, Pat O`Brien, Chuck Nice, comedian and commentator, plus the Marvet Britto, president and CEO of the Britto agency. Welcome everybody to the show.

Now, another one claiming to be one of Tiger`s women, Cori Rist, spoke out on "The Today Show."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you a prostitute?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you an escort?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Tiger Woods pay you anything?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never. I think he was not afraid to show his affection in front of everyone there. And he was very affectionate, and led me by the hand, and we just kind of disappeared, and that was the start. He invited me to go somewhere, and I said no, and we kind of had an argument over I don`t make enough time for him. And that was it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t make enough time for him?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s correct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: What did she do this for? She`s not getting any money. What`s the reason to come out and tell all this?

CHUCK NICE, COMEDIAN: I`m going to go with stupidity. If she`s not getting any money, then what serves the purpose? She said this morning on "The Today Show" it was because she had to show her son an example, that there are consequences to your actions and she had to own up. That`s what she said on "The Today Show."

BEHAR: She can own up to them in her house rather than on TV. But she felt the need to go on TV. But did I hear her right? She said she broke up with him?

NICE: Yes.

BEHAR: That`s interesting.

NICE: That does make things a little interesting. She said that she didn`t make enough time for him.

BEHAR: That`s right. So she broke up.

NICE: She`s a busy girl.

BEHAR: OK. And do you are there are any other women? I mean, pat, you can tell me, threesomes, men involved, a foursome? He is a golfer. What do you think?

O`BRIEN: Well, hi, Joy. I tell you exactly what I think. The person that needs to go on television are not these women because I don`t know what that does to your resume. It`s Tiger Woods who should go on television.

BEHAR: You think so?

PAT O`BRIEN, TELEVISION PERSONALITY: Absolutely. I think you see any of these -- take Kobe Bryant, A-Rod, all these people that went on television, if we see your face, see that you`re contrite perhaps, that is the biggest medicine right now for Tiger Woods...

BEHAR: Marvet, do you agree?

O`BRIEN: Or try to get in front of the story. Be on television and look like a human being. He`s not a bad guy. Get on there and show your face.

BEHAR: But you`re an image creator.

MARVET BRITTO, CEO, THE BRITTO COMPANY: I don`t agree. I think it`s different circumstances and situations for different people. Tiger has always been private. You`ve never seen Tiger doing gratuitous PR ever. So it`s different with Kobe, with all the other folks who have gone down this road.

Tiger has to deal with this the way that is best with Tiger. So we can`t expect his handprint in dealing with this to be like anyone else`s. He needs to heal his family first.

That`s what`s important to him, and I think we should applaud him that he isn`t rushing for the acceptance of the public. He wants to be accepted at home. He wants his wife to be able to move past this.

BEHAR: He did drop a bomb over the weekend, said "I am deeply aware of the disappointment and hurt that my infidelity has caused to so many people" most of all my wife and children. After much soul searching I have decided to take an indefinite break from professional golf. I need to focus my attention on being a better husband, father, and person." Is this a good idea, Chuck?

NICE: I don`t think so. I mean, when you say "indefinite break," you take a break for a little while, yes, because things have to calm down. But you don`t step away from golf for like a year or so. That`s what makes you Tiger Woods.

BEHAR: What makes you say a year? Indefinite could be a week.

NICE: That`s true. It is indefinite. You`re right. What I`m saying is if it`s a prolonged period of time, no good.

BRITTO: In PR jargon what "indefinite" means is that he doesn`t want to be governed by personal or business commitments. Indefinite simply means I`m going to step away, I`m going to recalibrate my life, I`m going to work on my family and my wife, and then I`ll emerge when I`m ready to emerge. That`s all "indefinite" means.

It means he is not going to let a booking or public appearance already that is already scheduled on his calendar govern when he should emerge from this.

BEHAR: I see.

Pat, do you think golf can survive without him?

O`BRIEN: Nope, absolutely not. I think this is a singular sport. Tiger Woods is golf. When he`s not on television, the ratings go down 50 percent.

BEHAR: I think it`s 30 percent. Go ahead.

O`BRIEN: Well, in the eight months he was off, it was 50.

But anyway, imagine this. Think of the -- if the New York Yankees dropped out of sports or the Los Angeles Lakers dropped out of basketball. It would be a disaster. That`s how important Tiger is to the world of golf.

The only news this is good for is Phil Mickelson by the way. But the revenues go down. Paychecks are going to go down. Award money goes down. It`s a disaster for the golf world.

BEHAR: Without Tiger, to me, watching golf is like watching the Yule log.

(LAUGHTER)

That`s the level of interest.

NICE: Pretty good numbers on Christmas day.

BEHAR: The Yule log, it`s like the most boring thing to watch to me.

O`BRIEN: Yes, it is.

BEHAR: With him in it, it gets exciting. He`s a star.

O`BRIEN: He is a star.

BEHAR: Do you think the other golfers will be happy? The competition is out.

NICE: No, I think it`s like a prizefighter. When you want to be the heavyweight champ of the world, you want to beat the best fighter that`s there. You don`t want that guy sitting home saying no I`m not going to give him a fight. You want to take him on.

So if you become the number one golfer and Tiger is not in the mix, people are going to say "Asterisk. You`re not really the number one golfer."

BEHAR: You`re only good because he`s not there.

NICE: And who wants that?

BEHAR: OK. Let`s move on to another topic. Just this weekend Accenture announced they were dropping Tiger. They said "Given the circumstances of the last two weeks, after careful consideration and analysis the company has determined that Tiger Woods is no longer the right representative for its advertising."

Pat, do you think more are going to follow? Are they going to drop? And will anything replace the sponsors?

O`BRIEN: First of all, a marketing note to Accenture, I didn`t know what Accenture did until they dropped Tiger Woods.

BEHAR: Me either.

O`BRIEN: So I`m not sure that marketing campaign went all that well. But Accenture will be fine without him I think.

Nike is going to stay with him, and that`s fine, too, because Tiger Woods is in the business of selling golf, and Nike is sort of a renegade company anyway. Phil Knight likes that kind of controversy and that sort of thing. It`s never hurt them in the past with Michael Vick and Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

But I think some of the other ones, you know, are on the line. But the thing about Tiger, if he comes back and wins, like Chuck says, if he comes back and starts winning golf tournaments and gets that applause again, they`ll line up. So whoever drops out there will be somebody else in line.

BEHAR: You think so?

O`BRIEN: Absolutely.

BEHAR: Gillette is limiting his role.

BRITTO: Right now they should step back, because if Tiger is the face of your brand, then consumers are going to connect his transgression with your brand. So it`s smart for them to place ads less frequently.

But for them to step away is not smart because Tiger, trust me, is going to be back. When he`s mentally ready, when he emerges, if you didn`t support him you`ll be in a bad, bad place. They`re stepping away, but they`re not going to completely do away with contracts.

BEHAR: I hear you. But what you said was interesting, that he is going to be mentally ready.

BRITTO: Oh, yes.

BEHAR: Doesn`t this game require a tremendous amount of concentration, and isn`t this stress going to go against that?

BRITTO: That`s why he`s not dealing with it on a day-to-day basis. That`s why he`s sitting and really putting together a key strategy that`s smart for him. And when he emerges I think he`s going to be mentally stronger and physically stronger and ready to compete.

BEHAR: All right.

NICE: It`s a game where you have to concentrate on a hole. I think he`s going to do quite well.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Now, OK. He`s going -- he`s thinking of, you know -- I got to wrap this up. But he`s going to go to Sweden maybe? I mean, this is the FOX in a hen house. Sweden is filled with beautiful blondes.

(LAUGHTER)

Why would he do that? And why would she say, OK? That`s my next -- we`ll continue this saga at another time. We`ll continue with today. Thank you so much for being here, as usual. Thank you, Pat.

Eliot Spitzer`s gal pal Ashley Dupre is a working girl again, but this time she`s just talking about sex. I`ll explain, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So yes, you know, I think the PGA tour will be just fine without Tiger Woods. And you know what? The sponsors, well, they are excited, too. The PGA tour -- no Tiger, no problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Denial. "SNL" may be making jokes at Tiger`s expense, but the PGA isn`t laughing. When Tiger plays in a golf tournament viewership goes up nearly 50 percent.

Here to talk Tiger and other stories is Jim David, comedian and "Huffington Post" blogger, Joe Levy, editor-in-chief of "Maxim" magazine, and Elna Baker, comedian and author of "The New York Regional Mormon Singles Halloween Dance." Wow, that is a mouthful. Welcome to the show.

So, how does the PGA replace Tiger?

JOE LEVY, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "MAXIM": Wow. I think they don`t.

BEHAR: They don`t.

LEVY: I don`t think there`s any replacement for Tiger Woods, greatest golfer that ever lived, possibly. Also, I hear it`s unusual in the sport of golf to be black, I`m told.

BEHAR: It is very unusual. That`s why you don`t want to lose him. I mean, he opened doors for kids, you know, to play golf.

LEVY: He made golf interesting because he was that good. Are any of us golf watchers?

JIM DAVID, COMEDIAN: No.

BEHAR: Are you kidding?

(LAUGHTER)

DAVID: But we know who Tiger is, and he is so remarkable on the course that you might pay attention when he`s out playing.

BEHAR: Yes.

DAVID: He`s that good.

BEHAR: It is remarkable how that ball goes right into that hole. It`s just unbelievable. But Jim, do you think this is going to open doors for other sponsors?

DAVID: Cialis, for when the time is right.

BEHAR: I don`t think so.

DAVID: Remember, if your golf tournament lasts more than four hours, see a doctor.

I`m starting to feel sorry for him, because it`s like all of these women are coming forward, and it`s like can`t you have a trick anymore without people talking?

BEHAR: Well confidentiality, you know, between guy and mistress is gone.

LEVY: It used to be like a doctor-patient relationship.

BEHAR: Yes, it was like a priest in confession.

LEVY: Exactly.

BEHAR: No longer.

LEVY: Now it`s like, they`re foreclosing on our homes. Can`t we just get laid?

BEHAR: Exactly.

Why are these women always, how shall we put this, sort of, you know, skanky? These guys never go out with lawyers and doctors. They`re always this particular type of girl.

ELNA BAKER, COMEDIAN: You know, I think 13 today, now, 13 women have come forward?

BEHAR: And 13 is still a funny number by the way.

BAKER: Yes.

BEHAR: If it were ten it`s not as funny, but 13 is good. But 15 may not be funny. What are we going to do? 130 would be funny again.

LEVY: We have to get to 18 for obvious reasons.

BEHAR: We do. But they always go for these type of girls. Why is that? Do you have any insight as a woman?

BAKER: Well, OK, as a woman on the panel. As a Mormon, I mean, 13 women, that`s just a family. That`s not really infidelity.

(LAUGHTER)

But as a woman, I mean, I don`t know if it takes a particular type of -- I mean, Tiger Woods I think is a very handsome man. I think most women would go for Tiger Woods. But then the telltale signs that a woman would go for you, maybe you have to go for the skankier type in order for them to cheat.

DAVID: That`s like my favorite word "skank" it sounds like something that washes up on the Jersey Shore.

BEHAR: OK. Let`s change the topic to, while he is hiding from the spotlight, this one girl from another sex scandal can`t get enough of it. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEY DUPRE, COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK POST": Hi. I`m Ashley Dupre. I used to be on the front page of the "New York Post." Now I`m writing for it. That`s right. I`m the "New York Post`s" new advice columnist. Ask me anything about love, sex, and relationships.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: That`s former New York Governor Eliot Spitzer`s escort Ashley Dupre. The "New York Post" has tapped her for a sex advice column.

DAVID: Not just sex -- relationships, love. She`ll give you advice about anything. She is just over qualified to give you advice about sex.

BEHAR: I respect the fact the girl is making a living at something. These other ones, they are just like spilling the beans and getting their 15 minutes of fame. At least she had a job.

DAVID: And finally someone at the post --

(LAUGHTER)

I`m serious. She was an escort.

DAVID: Why do you call them an escort? It`s not like you`re taking them somewhere.

BEHAR: Well, you are escorting them to the bed I guess.

DAVID: Oh, all right.

BEHAR: Well, somebody explained to me, a call girl is different from a hooker, for example, because a call girl, you have to call the madam to get the appointment. I never even realized that.

DAVID: Yes. I`m glad you asked me. I`m an authority on this subject.

BEHAR: Are you?

DAVID: Yes. You do have to call. And she`s an escort because she takes you around the world.

BEHAR: How do you know that?

DAVID: I`ll explain it to you later.

BEHAR: Is that kind of weird sex thing I don`t know about?

DAVID: I don`t find it weird at all. That`s all I`m going to say.

BEHAR: She has an advice column. It`s interesting that she would have a job like that. Here is some of the advice she gives. Somebody writes and says "Are there telltale signs a man isn`t happy in his marriage?" You answer it first and then I`ll tell you what she says.

BAKER: With her I think it`s funny because if you ask that question, is my husband cheating on me, she could easily just say, well, what`s his name? I`ll check my rolodex. That`s where she has authority.

BEHAR: How do you --

LEVY: If he`s looking at porn wearing reading glasses...

BEHAR: Yes? He`s lost a lot of his eyesight? Is that your point? I`m not following that.

LEVY: He`s staring at the computer.

BEHAR: This is her answer. She says "Guys are primal. They`re proud and need to be treated like they`re proud and special." What do you think about that?

DAVID: It`s fantastic. First off, she never actually answers the question. She says men are easy. Take care of them. Feed their ego. She basically says men are like dogs. If you praise them and give them special treats...

BEHAR: Right, special treats.

DAVID: ... they`ll be faithful. She doesn`t actually tell you what the telltale signs are that they`re cheating.

But what do I think of it? You know, pat me on the head and give me a biscuit. I`ll be fine, totally.

BEHAR: I think it sort of puts the onus on the woman, like she`s not treating the husband as if he`s special enough, like she`s got three kids, she`s cleaning the house, she`s got a full-time job, OK, and he has to be treated like he`s special.

LEVY: Not that you`re talking about yourself or anything.

BEHAR: I`m just saying. It`s not that easy to treat these people, these guys like they`re special when you`re overburdened by life, and too bad about that.

LEVY: I feel sorry for women, though, because they have to work harder because men are not naturally monogamous. I don`t think the male of any species is naturally...

BEHAR: Why is it that men are not naturally monogamous and women are naturally monogamous? Women aren`t naturally monogamous either. Monogamy is monotonous. Let`s face it.

By the way, a quick programming note. Ashley Dupre will be my guest tomorrow on this show. So make sure you tune in.

Now, here is a story I really love. The 73-year-old Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi was smacked in the face at a rally yesterday. This guy Berlusconi, he`s has had sex scandals, multiple corruption trials, and now is hit in the face with a metal figurine. Is someone trying to tell him something?

(LAUGHTER)

Is this like, what do you think is going on? Why would they be so angry with him?

LEVY: A lot of people hate him.

BEHAR: He`s another dog that`s constantly --

LEVY: But like half of the country hates his guts.

DAVID: And the other half admire him immensely because when he was just 72 he was turning up at a very special 18-year-old birthday party.

BEHAR: Right.

DAVID: So the other half of the country is like, hats off to Berlusconi. Meanwhile, some people -- but the guy who hit him with the...

BEHAR: It was a figurine --

DAVID: ... replica of a church.

LEVY: That`s kind of sacrilegious.

BEHAR: You know when Bush got hit with the shoe, that sort of softened his image and made people like him more.

DAVID: I -- wow. Not me.

BAKER: There might be some...

LEVY: It made me actually have to send out for another shoe. I just wanted a whole bag...

BEHAR: You enjoyed it.

LEVY: I did.

BEHAR: All right, more with my panel when we come back. Stay right there. We have a lot of topics.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`m back with my very funny panel. Next story, Chris Brown had a Twitter tantrum after he discovered there were no copies of his new album on sale at Wal-Mart. I see he`s gotten over his anger.

Let me read one of Chris Brown`s tweets, OK, so you know what I`m talking about. Quote, "What the f do I gotta do? WTF, yes, I said it and I ain`t retracting s. I`m not biting my tongue about s else. The industry can kiss my a."

DAVID: He doesn`t want to --

BEHAR: It`s poetry. I tell you -- poetry in motion.

DAVID: He doesn`t want us to think he`s a thug and he tweets in ebonics, twit-bonics.

BAKER: I checked his twitter page this morning and already he got the media back lash. He`s changed those statements to say, like, well I talked to a manager and they didn`t have anything. Wow.

BEHAR: So he`s back --

BAKER: He`s like, golly gee.

LEVY: The greatest thing about this. He was at a Wal-Mart I think in Farmingdale, Connecticut, where, you know -- I mean, he was checking the streets to see how the streets are feeling in Farmingdale, Connecticut. Checking that urban base out, you know, suburban Connecticut, to see, are they buying my record?

BEHAR: Who was he angry at? The industry, Wal-Mart? Is he still angry at Rihanna? Or was he just angry?

LEVY: Who is within punching distance is the question. That might be who he`s angry at.

This guy -- it`s amazing he put out a record. It`s amazing he has a career at all at this point.

BEHAR: You think so?

LEVY: It is not amazing that record is not selling and not in some stores. Wal-Mart is in the business of making money. Nobody wants to buy this record.

BEHAR: They`re judgmental apparently, right?

BAKER: Wal-Mart is a judge -- because they cater to a conservative --

DAVID: Well, the number one CD in Wal-Mart is "A Conway Twitty Christmas."

(LAUGHTER)

It doesn`t surprise me that they don`t want to have his stuff.

BEHAR: Do you buy your rap albums at Wal-Mart?

DAVID: I don`t buy rap albums, Joy. I buy Montivani and Lawrence Welk and Madonna and Lady Gaga.

BEHAR: He`s serious.

DAVID: I`m totally serious.

BEHAR: Did you know that Lady Gaga was with the Queen, and she caused a stir there. She was dressed crazy and everything, and the Queen sort of accepted it. She was happy with that. Lady Gaga is a quite a talented girl. Is Chris Brown as talented as lady gaga?

BAKER: Absolutely not.

LEVY: No.

BAKER: Not at all.

BEHAR: Is Chris brown as talented as Adam Lambert?

BAKER: Chris brown is only as talented as big as he makes a fuss. Really what he`s doing for his career -- the twitters were also sent over the course of several hours, so it wasn`t even as though he had a tantrum like they say. You don`t have a tantrum over the course of very contrived hours.

It was a publicity stunt, and he`s using it to try to get his sales up because his talent isn`t enough.

BEHAR: Do you agree with that, Joe?

DAVID: I suspect it is a bit of a publicity stunt. I`ll tell you this, Chris Brown in his moment was great. That moment was a few years ago. He ruined his career. He lost his career.

BEHAR: When he hit the girl.

DAVID: He lost his career because of his personal problems. I don`t think he`s ever dealt with that in an appropriate way. His record is not selling. He`s trying to stir some stuff up on Twitter. It`s not working.

LEVY: He sure as hell isn`t as talented as Adam. No way. I want to have his baby by the way.

BEHAR: Well, don`t hold your breath.

(LAUGHTER)

Thanks to my panel. Elin Woods, will she stay or will she go? We`ll discuss that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: The Tiger Woods story keeps unfolding the big question on everyone`s mind is, will Elin stand by her man as 12 other women seem to have done, or will she tell Tiger to take his clubs and play through? That must be a golf thing that somebody wrote because I have no idea what that means.

One wife who`s had enough is Jenny Sanford who told her cheating husband Governor Mark Sanford to pack his bags and hit the Appalachian Trail. South Carolina`s first lady has moved out and filed for divorce. Yes. Here now to discuss all of this are Gerald Posner, Chief Investigative Reporter for the Daily Beast and author of "Miami Babylon," psycho therapist Robin Ludwig and M. Gary Neuman, author of the "New York Times" best seller "The Truth about Cheating, Why Men Stray." Okay. I`m so glad to hear -- is Jenny Sanford, Robby, now the poster child for all these women who have had to endure this BS from these guys?

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I`m not convinced. Her situation was very different. Her husband, when he got caught cheating said, I found my soul mate.

BEHAR: Right.

LUDWIG: This is the woman I`m really in love with. What is a wife to do when your husband doesn`t say he`s sorry and says, hey, listen, I found the real love of my life. That is a completely different situation and to stay in that station is very masochistic.

BEHAR: Gary, tell me, which is worse, to find your soul mate or have a bunch of mistresses like allegedly Tiger has? Which is worse for the wife who`s been dissed?

M. GARY NEUMAN: It`s hard to say but I think when somebody, when a husband says he found his soul mate that really kills, you know, when you think of somebody your husband has fallen in love with somebody else, I mean it`s awful just to sleep around but at least you can make yourself believe that there wasn`t any emotional connection and that is sometimes a little more protective than the other side.

BEHAR: Uh - huh. Gerald, the reports are that Tiger had a team of people to handle these trysts. Do you know anything about that?

GERALD POSNER, CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE REPORT, THE DAILY BEAST: Yes, you know, what`s amazing, the more I find out about him, he turns out to be this narcissist who decided he wanted it all. What I mean by that, he got married in 2004. He had two children. Guess what? He never gave up his single life. He was a single guy beforehand who had all these girlfriends. Then he got married and although he wanted the wife and the children and the family he didn`t want to give up on the girlfriends so they became his secret life only because he knew he couldn`t have that in the open.

And that would hurt the brand. So he had a few friends who helped him keep them in place. You know when you talk about Sanford, a different situation also because she`s a little more mature but she has her own money and comes from a lot of money. This is a 29-year-old girl, Elin, who for the last five years has been accustomed to the lifestyle Tiger Woods has been able to give her.

So and I think the other differences, remember, Tiger Woods may well be a sex addict. We are talking about 12 or more women. In other cases in which we`ve had that, David Duchovny, his wife Tea Leoni took him back even though he had to go in for rehab. In the case of Michael Douglas, his first wife Diandre left him and evidently he is now rehabbed and cured because he is able to stay in his new marriage with you know, Catherine Zeta Jones.

BEHAR: Catherine Zeta Jones. Yes. It`s almost like Tiger thought he was in an open marriage but he never told his wife. Do you remember the `70s? Open marriage was de rigor and I think that people, was like god`s way of telling you you`re going to get a divorce, open marriage. It really doesn`t work.

LUDWIG: Yes, it doesn`t work because we are territorial of the people that we love. But I think Tiger Woods, I mean, there was a compulsive component to his actions.

BEHAR: Oh good. Let`s analyze him.

LUDWIG: No, I`m not willing to say that he`s a sex addict -

BEHAR: I love it

LUDWIG: But here`s an interesting situation. Here is the man who had everything but was emotionally bankrupt. I mean, he really had -- there was something that he was seeking out that he didn`t have. And I also have to wonder if somehow his behavior got worse when his father died because this is a man whose father --

BEHAR: Well, the father was like a control --

LUDWIG: That`s right. And so when the father was no longer there it`s almost like he went hay wire.

NEUMAN: And I think, also what you see is, you see these people, they tend to sell sabotage. It`s like they plant seeds along the way for their lives that at any moment, even when things are going well, something could sprout up and completely destroy them and throw them into crisis. They really bring tremendous drama upon themselves. And from a psychological perspective when somebody starts off a marriage like this, this is not one of those situations where you think, well, what was the marriage like? Were they emotionally connected? I mean, this was just horrible from the beginning. You say, what was wrong with this person deep down? And before you can even consider going back to a man like that, remorse is not nearly enough. It`s got to be some -- a real paradigm shift. That person has to really get back in touch. What makes me tick?

BEHAR: You know, what I want to know from all of you, you`re experts on a lot of this. Now that the guy can`t have sex outside his marriage because that has stopped, he`s only 32 years old.

LUDWIG: Right.

BEHAR: You know, and Spitzer was another situation where he was going to a prostitute and now it`s all out there so they`re stuck with -- stuck in the sense that they believe it with their wives. What are they supposed to do now for sex? They`re not interested in their wives really and they can`t go out and just get some nooky outside the marriage. What are they supposed to do? I`d like to ask the men. What are you guys supposed to do?

POSNER: That`s why, you know, Joy, I`ve been married for 25 years and I`ve been with my wife for four years before that, 29 years. I`ll say it here. I mean, this isn`t a Gary Hart, but it`s just the way I am, I`ve been monogamous. I`ve never cheated.

BEHAR: But that`s you.

POSNER: Right, but what I`m saying is there are men that can do that and then there are men that can`t. If Tiger Woods cannot, if he can`t rehabilitate himself, if he can`t commit to that one woman, if he can`t say I`m going to be with you for the rest of my life, guess what, my sex life may go through periods where it`s active and not active, if he can`t do that, then that marriage isn`t going to last.

BEHAR: He has a lot of years ahead of him, this guy, where he will be sexually interested. And just on top of it, his wife Elin has to listen to all of his mistresses coming out of the woodwork, including the latest, Cori Rist. Take a listen to what she told the "Today Show" this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORI RIST, WOODS ALLEGED MISTRESS: I`m just sorry for her pain. You know, I hate that I`m part of it. I feel like I have to take responsibility for the things I`ve done and one day I might have to look my son in the face and explain all this. So I`m very sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: So she feels bad.

POSNER: Joy?

BEHAR: Yes.

POSNER: One of the things I`d love to know from Cori and from Gary is, it`s interesting to me at least, and they`ll have a better perspective on this, is why is that each of the mistresses thought that they were the only ones? They all say, gee, I felt jilted by the fact that I found out there was somebody else. I thought I was the only other woman.

LUDWIG: Well, it sounds like that`s what Tiger Woods did. He made each woman feel like they were special and they were the only one. This is also what these women wanted to believe. They fell hard for him and they wanted to believe they were special.

(CROSSTALK)

LUDWIG: What did some comedian say, don`t date somebody if they have an 8 x 10 glossy?

BEHAR: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

NEUMAN: And keep in mind these mistresses are already willing to share him with his wife so they`re already knowledgeable about the idea that there`s somebody else involved. A lot of men will sometimes say, I`m not having sex with my wife. It`s on its way out. They lie. A lot of lying goes on with cheating. So much so that --

LUDWIG: Some of these women though might have thought oh, maybe he will really choose me over his wife. They really could have had that fantasy and wish.

BEHAR: Bringing the wife into the conversation, she was spotted pumping gas recently without her wedding band on. Now is that a sign she`s going to leave him or is she moon lighting at Exxon?

LUDWIG: I think it`s a sign she is enraged with him and she doesn`t want to give him the status or herself the status as being married. I don`t think it`s a predictive factor at this point.

NEUMAN: She surely is not going to feel anchored to him while he is involved in all of these things. So, I think it`s kind of her one little, you know, I`m free for the moment kind of feeling.

POSNER: I agree. I agree completely. She knows she is a number one paparazzi target right now. They`ll be looking at everything and pumping that gas holding up that hand without the diamond ring that is so visible in all the other pictures of her on the golf course and everything else is a very clear sign that for this moment he is on thin ice.

BEHAR: And supposedly they`re going to go on a yacht together. Now, he could be sleeping with the fishes before he knows it. I don`t know if a boat is a good choice for him of transportation. What do you think?

LUDWIG: It depends how strong she is. You know, pushing him over. Listen, he obviously has this idea that if he can get her alone maybe he can convince her to stay with him because also his identity is wrapped around being this married man. So he`s conflicted and he really needs to get a sense of who he is and what he wants which I don`t think is the case at this point.

NEUMAN: I hope she doesn`t get bamboozled because the fact is in my research, 88% of cheaters said that the mistress was not better looking or in better shape than the wife. It really isn`t about, you know, just having more sex with nicer looking women. It`s a sickness. There is something that is an emotional issue. It`s not how she looks.

BEHAR: The wife is as beautiful as any woman is going to be. It`s obviously not about that.

NEUMAN: It`s not how much sex she is giving him. It`s not about that. If he gets her in a room and he has turns on his charisma which we know he has a lot of and convinces her I`m really sorry this time. No, this time I`m really sorry. It`s just not going to be --

BEHAR: You and Robi, does a woman ever get over the infidelity? Is he going to really pay for the rest of his life even if he does go back?

LUDWIG: It`s a test. I mean, people can stay together long enough where they outgrow their issues. They stay together long enough and they forgive one another, they get each other, they understand it. So there is a way to become more intimate after infidelity if you understand what the trigger was and you somehow incorporate that into the fabric of your life as a married couple.

NEUMAN: So, that`s very well said. The problem you have here is that even if things get better, because the relationship and the type of lifestyle he lives of the rich and famous has so much dislocation and so much disconnection, she`s always going to be thinking about it. There won`t be that daily time, to keep tabs on her feelings for him. It`s really hard.

BEHAR: That`s right. It`s a very rough road ahead. Thank you everybody. Back in just a minute with Broadway and TV star, David Hyde Pierce. Stay there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: He starred on TV and on Broadway and now is costarring in the Michael Feinstein and David Hyde Pierce holiday show. I`m pleased to be joined by Emmy and Tony award winner David Hyde Pierce. David, welcome to the show.

DAVID HYDE PIERCE, ACTOR: Thanks, Joy.

BEHAR: I`m coming to see you and Michael Feinstein this week.

PIERCE: That`s great. Feinstein.

BEHAR: Feinstein? Like Bernstein?

PIERCE: Yes.

BEHAR: I see. Does he get all snippety?

PIERCE: He doesn`t care. No. I just thought I`d say it. He is very easy going about that stuff.

BEHAR: So what kind of a show is it anyway?

PIERCE: It`s a great show. It`s -- we`ve known each other forever. We`ve been friends for years and years. We were neighbors in Los Angeles. Michael in case people don`t know is one of the great masters of the American songbook, joining Cole Porter.

BEHAR: Gershwin, he was friends with Ira right?

PIERCE: That`s right, he worked with Ira Gershwin. So, he knows everything about American song. We put together a show that`s not a lot of literal holiday songs but a holiday feeling of, you know, Cole Porter --

BEHAR: Sophisticated song writers.

PIERCE: Some great ballads and people are going nuts for it.

BEHAR: You know, Cole Porter had a lot of innuendo in his music. Baby, I`m the bottom you`re the top. Hello.

PIERCE: I don`t think he meant that.

BEHAR: Now, but you know, singing comes naturally to you. You were in Spamelot, you sang in Spamelot. It`s not a big thing for you.

PIERCE: Well, this is a new kind of gig for me. It`s cabaret, which is different. It`s a small room, a great room, the regency. The people are right there. You kind of see if you have a crazy drunk person as we`ve had they`re right there saying, I love this song. You know, you got to deal with that.

BEHAR: So Kelsey Grammer comes to the show. Kidding.

PIERCE: I know you`re kidding. Terrible thing to say. He doesn`t drink, he doesn`t drink.

BEHAR: I know that he`s a big Republican and you`re an openly gay person at this point.

PIERCE: Yes.

BEHAR: How did you two get along on that school?

PIERCE: That`s so funny. Usually thinks Republican/Democrat. Well, he`s a Republican, but he`s not a crazy Republican.

BEHAR: Well, I know. There are many Republicans who are pro gay.

PIERCE: I would call him a fiscal conservative.

BEHAR: Yes.

PIERCE: We had a very live and let live kind of set. People from all walks of life and all different kinds of political persuasions and we all worked together and did our jobs. And that was the issue.

BEHAR: But you came out after "Frasier" am I right?

PIERCE: It depends on who you talk to.

BEHAR: I`m talking to you. When did you come out?

PIERCE: Well, it`s like my partner and I were out in the tabloids before "Frasier" even started.

BEHAR: Oh really.

PIERCE: But no one cared.

BEHAR: No one cared because you weren`t as famous.

PIERCE: Yes, and also we didn`t deny anything. We just said, you know, we`re going to live our lives and do it. And we tried to be open about that, like I said, at work we were very public about it. I didn`t go out of my way to make announcements.

BEHAR: So the industry kind of knew you were gay.

PIERCE: The industry, friends and family, anyone, you know, neighbors.

BEHAR: You just weren`t shouting it from the rooftops.

PIERCE: That`s not my nature. I wasn`t brought up that way.

BEHAR: Right, why should you.

PIERCE: But I`ll tell you what happened was there came a point where I felt like the whole live and let live was starting to feel like don`t ask don`t tell and I didn`t want that so that`s when I just started to be more public. At that point, I felt like it would not be a big shock to people so I didn`t want to come out and make a gigantic announcement and have people say oh, we`re so surprised.

BEHAR: Yes.

PIERCE: So I tried to talk about it casually in conversation.

BEHAR: You know, Rupert Everett, a great actor, he`s a wonderful actor. He has been out for years. He`s British. That happens more there I think, coming out parties and stuff. I really do think so.

PIERCE: Yes.

BEHAR: And he said that it really wasn`t good for his career to come out and in fact he sort of implies he`s sorry he did it.

PIERCE: Right. I think its individual. I think how you do it, why you do it, if you do it is all up to the person. I don`t think there are rules. I also think career wise, you know, Neil Patrick Harris.

BEHAR: Yes.

PIERCE: Has been very open and is having a very successful career and is thriving. It just depends.

BEHAR: But there are still a lot of closeted actors I think.

PIERCE: Yes. It seems like there are but again, I feel like it`s so individual.

BEHAR: But it certainly hasn`t hurt you. You`ve won a lot of Tony awards. You were just nominated for a Grammy. You have the latest movie selected by Sun Dance.

PIERCE: Yes.

BEHAR: So you`re in good shape.

PIERCE: It doesn`t seem to be hurting.

BEHAR: You got married in California before prop 8 passed.

PIERCE: Yes.

BEHAR: Here was your reaction to that vote on my other show "The View" in may.

PIERCE: All right. I knew you were going to do this.

BEHAR: In May.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PIERCE: People I don`t know take a vote? Can you imagine if you`re married the people in your state getting together and saying you know what? You`re not. It`s a very odd thing. I understand all the religious and emotional issues involved. But it was a very angry making feeling both in November when it was taken away from me and also this past Tuesday sitting in front of my television wondering, gee, I hope the Supreme Court thinks okay for us to be married. Excuse me. It`s none of your business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Why is gay marriage failing in blue states like New York and California? And it`s thriving in Iowa, you know, because the conservatives in Iowa believe in live and let live? Because it`s the ultimate Conservative position, I think.

PIERCE: I agree with you, I think that`s the only conservative position.

BEHAR: Yes.

PIERCE: I don`t know, you know, I`m not the expert on why these things happen but I do think there`s a paradox that when things got defeated. Like just got defeated here in New York state or in Prop 8, there`s an interesting reverse reaction. All of the people really didn`t care -

BEHAR: Yes.

PIERCE: Which is the vast majority of people say, wait a minute, they didn`t pass that? What`s the big deal?

BEHAR: What`s the big deal.

PIERCE: And in a way we make progress, just like when it gets past, sometimes there`s a big reaction against it. And so there`s a big movement --

BEHAR: So you think it`s inevitable?

PIERCE: I do. I think it`s going to happen. It`s the right thing to do. And people will come along.

BEHAR: It`s the right thing to do. We`ll be right back with more of David and a surprise guest with him. Stay with us. It`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PARKER: This election has changed the world for the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered community.

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BEHAR: That was Houston`s overly gay major elect, Anise Parker. Over the weekend, Houston became the largest city in the nation to elect an openly gay mayor. Good old liberal Texas. Mayor elected Annise Parker joins me now and back with me is David High Pierce. First of all, congratulations mayor, this is the same state that George Bush is from, is that right?

ANNISE PARKER, MAYOR-ELECT, HOUSTON: Absolutely.

BEHAR: So why isn`t gay marriages passing in the Blue States. Why is it now starting to be a Red State phenomenal, do you think?

PARKER: Well, I have nothing to do with gay marriage. I just focused on my race here in Houston and I would point out that Houston is a blue island in the big red sea.

BEHAR: Houston is? And what about San Antonio? Isn`t that suppose to be.

PARKER: The big city is in Texas. Houston, San Antonio, Austin, even Dallas.

BEHAR: Really? Dallas, too.

PARKER: Dallas tipped Blue two election cycles ago.

PIERCE: You know I was also going to say - First of all , congratulations, mayor. And also, one of the great things is that it didn`t matter that the voters were voting for your qualifications to do the job and your past experience and the fact that you happen to be lesbian, was apparently not an issue and that`s fantastic.

PARKER: I`m glad you pointed that out. I campaigned as the best, most experienced candidate for mayor and the voters already knew about my personal life, even late in the campaign personal attack and anti--gay mailers that went out really didn`t want that. Partly because I think voters appreciated the fact that I`ve always been honest with them. This is my 12th year in public office here in Houston, and my seventh winning campaign. So we have a history together.

BEHAR: Well, that is a lesson to be learned. You know you were honest with the voters and they repaid you for that in many ways. That`s - that`s terrific. But as mayor, I hate to harp on gay marriage because that is the issue. Are you going to try to pass gay marriage in your state? Are you going to try to work towards it?

PARKER: No. And for a very simple reason. We had an anti gay marriage ballot initiative several years ago in the state of Texas and it`s constitutionally prohibited so that`s done. Unless the -- and we don`t have an initiative and referendum in Texas. So unless our state legislator, which is still pretty conservative decides to reverse it, it`s not going to happen.

BEHAR: Why do you suppose there is such gay resistance in this country? What is it about? Just pure and simple homophobia, is it?

PIERCE: Some of it is religion and wouldn`t you say just habit.

PARKER: A marriage is religious, marriage is emotional. It taps into really deep core values for a lot of people and everybody has a mental image of what a marriage is and what it means and an emotional attachment. It`s very --

BEHAR: Yes. Maybe marriage should be strictly a religious ceremony and civil unions should be for everybody. I wonder if the gay community would be okay with that. Do you think that they would in terms of all of the rights of marriage but we call it a civil union or do we want to always have it marriage? Just a yes or a no?

PARKER: That`s an individual answer.

BEHAR: Yes, it`s an individual answer for people.

PIERCE: Yes, for the supreme court.

BEHAR: Ok, thanks very much, Annise, David, thank you. If you are in New York, catch David co-starring in Michael Feinstein`s Holiday Show running now until December 30. Thanks to all my guests tonight. And good night, everybody.

END