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Health Care on the Ropes; President Obama Speaks on Home Energy Stimulus; $100,000 Government Jobs

Aired December 15, 2009 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, I've got to tell you, with last week's grand Senate compromise on health care all but dead, President Obama sits down with the 60 members of the Senate's Democratic caucus today, hoping to save the reform efforts.

CNN Congressional Correspondent Brianna Keilar is here and joins us live now.

Brianna, time, clearly, is short. How did we end up back at square one?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, the Senate Democrats have come to a tentative agreement on this idea, Tony, of instead of having that controversial public option, that government-run insurance plan, what they were thinking of moving forward with was called a Medicare buy-in. They were going to allow people ages 55 to 64 -- because now the cutoff is 65 at this point -- they were going to allow people of that age group to buy into Medicare, and this was seen as something that could be palatable to liberals if they were giving up that public option.

Well, Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, an Independent who normally sides with Democrats on domestic issues, said he won't sign onto that. And what that means is he would be that crucial 60th vote. And with him not in the mix here, Democrats are short on this issue.

So, even though we haven't heard from Democratic leaders that they're officially waving the white flag on the this idea of the Medicare buy-in, it certainly seems to be going in that direction. So, Plan B seems to be out the window right now. Democrats scrambling to try to find a Plan C, and that is where we are today, Tony, as they get ready here in a couple of hours to head to the White House.

All of the Senate Democrats meeting with President Obama, and he is expected to press them and say, you need to do this, this is why you need to do this. If we fail at this, that's it. It's not going to happen.

HARRIS: Yes. So, Brianna, what, then, is the realistic timeline to get this bill through the Senate?

KEILAR: Well, what's interesting about the Senate, Tony, is it doesn't do things quickly. And when they want to vote on something, it requires days of debate before they can have a vote. Those are the rules that they have to stick to, certainly the rules that they have with health care reform. And so they really need to figure out that they can get 60 votes either here tomorrow or in the next day. I mean, this is a window of opportunity that is really closing. That is why there is this meeting at the White House, and that is why there's this -- really a sense of just kind of -- this has to get done now or it's not going to get done, certainly before Christmas. And as we move into the new year, it can be jeopardized.

HARRIS: Yes. OK.

Brianna Keilar on Capitol Hill for us.

Brianna, appreciate it. Thank you.

Senate Republicans are happy with the latest turn of events in the health care debate. Here's the Republican leader a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: Even as opposition grows, supporters of the bill are drafting plans and cutting deals to make this bill the law of the land by Christmas, ignoring the wishes of the American people, off in a room somewhere, cutting plans and making deals, trying to figure out some way to jam the American people when they are asking us overwhelmingly, please don't pass this bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Checking the wire now and the day's other big stories.

Terror suspects coming to America's heartland. We expect the White House to announce soon that a prison in rural Thomson, Illinois, will house dozens of detainees from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The facility is practically empty. It is to be acquired and upgraded by the federal government.

Deadly bombings today in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Thirteen people were killed in the Afghan blasts. One of the bombs going off in Kabul near the home of the former vice president. He was unhurt, but one of his guards and an assistant were among those killed.

Several civilians died in the second Afghan explosion. That one at a guard post in the southeast.

Meanwhile, in central Pakistan, at least 22 people were killed and 60 wounded when a powerful bomb ripped through a market. It happened just outside the home of a politician. It is not clear if the market or the home was the target, but most of the victims were at the market.

And the bombings followed a visit to the region by U.S. Central Command chief General David Petraeus.

CNN's Arwa Damon talked with him about the U.S. commitment to the war. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How do you convince other major players that the U.S. does have this staying power?

GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS, U.S. CENTCOM COMMANDER. I think at the end of the day, we have to keep coming back to why it is we are engaged in this region in the first place. Why are we in Afghanistan? And, of course, it is because that is the location in which the 9/11 attacks were planned. We've got to ensure that that can't happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: General Petraeus has been discussing the new war strategy with U.S. troops, as well as with Afghan and Pakistani officials.

The search for two missing hikers on Oregon's Mt. Hood is on hold for now. Whiteout conditions are threatening rescue efforts. Crews say they have found no signs of the hikers who, have been missing since Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT WEISHAAR, NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE: We literally searched everything I could possibly direct them to. We were running out of areas to search other than just going back and doing the same area again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: And back now to our big story, health care reform. About three hours from now, President Obama meets all 60 members of the Senate Democratic Caucus at the White House. He wants a health care bill passed before Christmas, preferably this week. The political drama, the focus last night on "ANDERSON COOPER 360."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: In fairness to the White House, when they started this process, they never thought public option was very important. It's not been part of the debate, frankly.

The White House has been for universal access, and people are losing sight of it. This bill does provide near-universal access. No president -- seven presidents have tried this, none has succeeded. Barack Obama may succeed.

Insurance reform, some other important reforms. But to the left, the public option and, indeed, the Medicare buy-in was a dramatic step toward a single-payer system, which has been -- you know, is very much an iconic proposal for a lot on the left. So this is -- the White House -- it's sort of like trying to get a balloon up in the air and just throwing things over the side until you can get a little height on that. ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: I want to play something that President Obama said to Oprah Winfrey last night in that special that aired last night. Let's watch.

OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: What grade would you give yourself for this year?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good, solid B- plus.

WINFREY: A B-plus?

OBAMA: Yes. I mean, I think that we have inherited the biggest set of challenges of any president since Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

COOPER: So he gives himself a B-plus. His approval ratings hitting a new low.

I mean, is he trying to put a game face on a bad situation, or does the White House perceive that there are successes on the brink?

GERGEN: They perceive that they have done better than the public face. You'll remember with CNN, we had a big national vote here earlier this year, and people gave him less an a B-plus.

Anderson, it's really striking that last week, when he went to Oslo to receive the most prestigious prize in the world, the Nobel Peace Prize, at that very moment his Gallup poll was at the lowest level of any president since Harry Truman at that time in office. So he's got this odd paradoxical situation where he's pulling off a Nobel Prize, but the ratings are real low.

But here's the deal. Because this week is so climactic, if he can pull off health care and if he can pull off Copenhagen at the end of the week, then the belief in the White House is, with unemployment already peaking, that he'll be on the comeback trail. And the B-plus, maybe, or even an A-minus would be merited. But if either one of those or both fall apart and he can't get them, then B-plus is going to be way too generous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: President Obama is at a home improvement store this morning pushing for more efficient appliances to save you money. We will take his remarks live in just a couple of minutes, right here in the NEWSROOM.

And Rob Marciano is tracking, let's see, snow, rain, bitter temperatures. Rob is next with the nation's weather forecast in just a moment.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT) HARRIS: And Rob, let's send everyone to Arlington, Virginia, and the President of the United States at a Home Depot.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

OBAMA: Senator Mark Warner is here. Where's mark? Right there. (APPLAUSE) We've got a couple of champions for job creation here in Northern Virginia, Gerry Connolly and Jim Moran. (APPLAUSE) Can I just ask, how come they got the Home Depot thing and you guys don't have it? (LAUGHTER) The senators are too cool to put it on? What's going on here? (LAUGHTER) Working to jump start our retrofit efforts around the country, Senator Jeff Merkley and Congressman Peter Welch are here as well. (APPLAUSE) We've got Alexandria Mayor William Euille. Where's William? There he is. Good to see you, Bill. (APPLAUSE) And we've got Frank Blake and his team here at Home Depot. Where's Frank? There he is. (APPLAUSE) So, seeing how Christmas is just around the corner and we're at Home Depot, I thought I might knock out some of my holiday shopping. (LAUGHTER) I figure my energy secretary wants a few million energy-efficient light bulbs. (LAUGHTER) My press secretary wants something that will prevent leaks. (LAUGHTER) Come on, guys. (APPLAUSE) Took a while there for... (LAUGHTER) But I've also come here to spend some time with workers and contractors and manufacturers and small-business owners who've been especially hard-hit by our economic downturn. A few of us just spent some time at a roundtable talking about the role they want to play in job creation and in our economic recovery and how government can best help to give them a boost. I don't need to remind them or any of you about the situation we found ourselves in at the beginning of this year. The economy was in a freefall. As a result of our financial crisis, folks couldn't access affordable credit to run their businesses or take out an auto loan or a student loan or in some cases pay their mortgages. Home values were plummeting, and we were hemorrhaging about 700,000 jobs per month. Now, today, the economy is growing for the first time in more than a year. And November's job report was the best that we've had in nearly two years. But the fact is, even though we've stopped the rapid job losses that we were seeing just a few months ago, more than 7 million Americans have lost their jobs in the two years since this recession began. Unemployment still stands at 10 percent. So we're not finished with our task; far from it. We've got a lot of work to do. And I promise you in the White House, we're hard at work every single day until every single person who wants a job can find a job. And that's why last week I announced some additional targeted steps to spur private sector hiring and give an added boost to small businesses, by building on the tax cuts in the Recovery Act and increasing access to the loans desperately needed for small businesses to grow. Now, we'll rebuild and modernize even more of our transportation, communication networks across the country. And I called for the extension of emergency relief like unemployment insurance and health benefits to help those who've lost their jobs while boosting consumer spending and promoting job growth. We also want to take some strategic surgical steps in areas that are going to generate the greatest number of jobs while generating the greatest value for our economy. And from the moment we took office, even as we took immediate steps to deal with the financial crisis, we began investing in newer, stronger foundations for lasting growth; one that would free us from the cycle of boom and bust that has been so painful, one that can create good jobs and opportunities for a growing middle class. That's at the heart of our efforts. And clean energy can be a powerful engine for creating that kind of growth. And that's why the Recovery Act included the single biggest investment in job-creating clean energy in our history: in renewable sources of energy, in advanced manufacturing, in clean vehicle technology, in a bigger, better, smarter electric grid that can carry clean, homegrown energy from the places that harness it to the places that need it. And after these investments have been given the better of part of a year to take root, a picture of their impact is starting to emerge. I just received a report from Vice President Biden that confirms that as a result of the steps that we've taken, a major transformation of our economy is well under way. We are on track to double renewable energy production and double our capacity to manufacture clean energy components, like wind turbines and solar panels, right here in the United States by the year 2012 -- doubling it. (APPLAUSE) But there's a lot more that we can do, and that's what I've come to Home Depot to talk about. In our nation's buildings, our homes and our offices consume almost 40 percent of the energy we use and contribute almost 40 percent of the carbon pollution that we produce. And everybody's talking about it right now in Copenhagen. Homes built in the first half of the last century can use about 50 percent more energy than homes that are built today. And because most of our homes and offices aren't energy-efficient, much of that energy just goes to waste, while costing our families and businesses money they can't afford to throw away. The simple act of retrofitting these buildings to make them more energy-efficient -- installing new windows and doors, insulation, roofing, ceiling leaks, modernizing heating and cooling equipment -- is one of the fastest, easiest and cheapest things we can do to put American back to work while saving money and reducing harmful emissions. As a result of a variety of investments made under the Recovery Act, including state and local energy grants, we're on pace to upgrade the homes of half a million Americans by this time next year -- half a million Americans, boosting the economy, saving money on energy, creating clean energy jobs that can't be outsourced. But this is an area that has huge potential to grow. That's why I'm calling on Congress to provide new temporary incentives for Americans to make energy-efficiency retrofit investments in their homes, and we want them to do it soon. I know the idea may not be very glamorous, although I get really excited about it. We were at the roundtable and somebody said, "Insulation's not sexy." I disagree. (LAUGHTER) Frank, don't you think insulation is sexy stuff? (APPLAUSE) Here's what -- here's what's sexy about it: saving money. Think about it this way: If you haven't upgraded your home yet, it's not just heat or cool air that's escaping, it's energy and money that you are wasting. If you saw $20 bills just, sort of, floating through the window up into the atmosphere, you'd try to figure out how you were going to keep that. But that's exactly what's happening because of the lack of efficiency in our buildings. So what we want to do is create incentives that stimulate consumer spending, because folks buy materials from home improvement stores like this one, which then buys them from manufacturers. It spurs hiring because local contractors and construction workers do the installation. It saves consumers money, perhaps hundreds of dollars off their utility bills each year. And it reduces our energy consumption in the process. In other words, most of this stuff is going to pay for itself. You put in the insulation, you -- you weatherize your home now, you will make up that money in a year or two years or three years, and then everything after that is just gravy. But the challenge for a lot of people is getting that money up front. They know that this is a smart thing to do, but times are tight right now, and it's hard to afford making that capital investment. And that's where the government can come in to provide the incentive to help people make that initial investment so that they can recover that money over the long term. These incentives will build on the work that my administration is doing to eliminate existing barriers to retrofitting millions of homes across the country. My middle class task force and the Council on Environmental Quality recently released a report titled, "Recovery Through Retrofit," that explains some of these hurdles and how we can overcome them: providing homeowners with straightforward and reliable information on retrofitting their homes, reducing their costs to do it, and ensuring that we've got a well-trained workforce ready to make it happen. So I -- I think this is an extraordinary idea. All the ideas that we've discussed were talked about at the jobs forum we held at the White House a couple of weeks ago. And, in fact, Frank Blake was there and mentioned that 30 percent of Home Depot's business is made up of small contractors of five or fewer employees who often do this kind of work. And they and the folks that I met with earlier know just how important a program like this could be. The economic downturn hit both small contractors and our broader construction industry especially hard. Construction unemployment reached 21 percent in the beginning of this year. The investments we made under the Recovery Act has helped, but obviously there's a lot more work to do to put construction workers and millions of other Americans who are ready and eager to rebuild America and move our recovery forward back on the job again. And we're not going to rest till we do it. So it's fitting that we're here today at Home Depot with folks who play a vital role in helping America's families build strong homes and strengthen the ones that they've got because that's exactly what we're trying to do: rebuild our -- rebuild America's house on a stronger foundation of growth and prosperity. It's not going to be easy, but we've got the concrete poured. And one thing is clear: We're moving in the right direction. So I promise you we are going to get this job done. Together, we can leave something for future generations that makes America that much stronger. And I just want to emphasize one last point. You know, there's a lot -- a lot of times there's an argument about economic growth versus the environment. And in the debate that's going on about climate change right now, a lot of people say we can't afford to deal with these emissions to the environment. But the fact of the matter is energy efficiency is a perfect example of how this can be a win-win. Manufacturers like Owens Corning, whose CEO is here today, they win because they produce this stuff, and those are American jobs. And right now, I just heard from the CEO, because Australia put an incentive to do exactly what we're talking about, they've seen a huge increase in their volume of experts -- exports to Australia. Why can't we do the same thing here? When it comes to contractors, contractors all around the country know that this is work they can do, they can do effectively, they can do well, and it's a reliable business. It's not going to be subject to as many of the vacillations as home sales are in the current environment where you've got a soft housing market. So this can help fill the void in a major industry that's taken a big hit. And the workers -- we have somebody who just got trained and is already on the job crawling through attics and putting all this stuff together. Over the course of six months or a year, somebody can get trained effectively, and LIUNA's doing terrific work with this apprenticeship program. And what this means is that people who are unemployed right now, they can get a marketable skill that they can take anywhere. So this is a smart thing to do, and we've got to get beyond this point where we think that somehow being -- being smart on energy is a job destroyer. It is a job creator. But it's going to require some imagination and some foresight, and it requires us to all work together. That's what this White House is committed to doing. I know that's what all of you are committed to doing. We are going to generate so much business for you, Frank, we are going to generate so much work for you guys -- from LIUNA -- we're going to create so much business -- so many business opportunities for contractors here that over the course of the next several years, people are going to see this, I think, as an extraordinary opportunity, and it's going to help America turn the corner when it comes to energy use.

I'm excited about it. I hope you are, too. I told you, insulation is sexy.

Thank you very much everybody. (APPLAUSE)

HARRIS: Insulation is sexy. Saving the money, at least, is sexy.

President Obama at a Home Depot store in Alexandria, Virginia, promoting the Cash for Calkers incentives program, as you just heard the president outline, providing a tax credit for making your homes more energy-efficient. The president believes the program is a jobs creator.

You know, you were hearing a lot about green jobs -- green jobs, green jobs, green jobs. What are they and can you get one? We will talk to a woman who started one of the first green job training programs. It's called BEST, for a reason. Majora Carter joins me next hour, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: You know, I've got to tell you, at a time when many Americans are struggling to make ends meet, this bit of surprising news. The number of federal government workers making six figures actually went up during the recession. Not just up -- way up.

CNN's Lisa Sylvester has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sammy T's Restaurant in Fredericksburg, Virginia, is one of the few places in town that is hiring.

LIZ FEDOWITZ, RESTAURANT MANAGER: Within the first day, if not the second day, we usually -- just all day long there's applicant after applicant coming in.

SYLVESTER: Fredericksburg is seeing its highest unemployment rate since 1992. But while jobs are scarce and paychecks shrinking in many corners of the country, one sector that doesn't seem to be reeling from the recession, the federal government.

Congress just boosted the base budget for some of its federal agencies by 12 percent. And according to data from the Federal Office of Personnel Management, the number of federal workers now earning six-figure salaries went up as the economy went down. In 2009, nearly 20 percent of the federal workforce earned $100,000 or more. That's up from 14 percent in 2007.

Congressman Jason Chaffetz is not too pleased with those numbers.

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: That doesn't count their other benefits like medical insurance and those types of things. It just sends the wrong message. And there's no way to justify it to the American people.

They're struggling, and yet the federal government is adding 10,000 new jobs -- new jobs every month. It's just absolutely out of control.

SYLVESTER: The Federal Managers Association represents government executives and supervisors. The group declined an interview with CNN, but a spokesperson said those $100,000-plus salaries are actually on the low end, that in the private sector, the same workers, who include lawyers, doctors and Ph.D. holders, could make 26 percent more.

But other figures indicate the private sector just isn't what it used to be. Today's average salary in America is just about $40,000, while the average federal worker is making more than $70,000.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: CNN's Lisa Sylvester reporting.

Environmentally-friendly and fuel-efficient, that's the claim of Boeing's new airliner. The maiden flight is later today and CNN has got you covered.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Senator Joe Lieberman is speaking this hour in Washington about the Ft. Hood shooting investigation. The senator chairs the Senate Homeland Security Committee. Susan Collins, not pictured here, but on his left shoulder, is the ranking member and she is there as well. We expect Senator Lieberman will take some questions on health care reform and his objection to the Medicare buy- in. We will bring you those comments live right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Got to tell you it is a big day for Boeing. The new 787 Dreamliner is scheduled to make its maiden flight today. Boeing has a lot riding on the jet, which is its first new plane in a decade. Susan Lisovicz first of all is back and she's joining us from the New York Stock Exchange with details. Good to see you, Susan. And how important is this airliner to Boeing?

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORREPSONDENT: Boeing calls it a game- changer and we'll see for ourselves because the Dreamliner's first test flight is set at 1 p.m. Eastern Time so about 90 minutes from now.

It is the first major jet to be made of 50 percent composite materials. What kind of materials? Like carbon and titanium instead of plain old aluminum. And those materials make the plane lighter and faster and, therefore, more fuel efficient. Of course it's an interesting name, the Dreamliner, because it's been a nightmare to get to this test flight. It's been delayed for more than two years. All sorts of problems, Tony. Production strikes, it's outsourced so much of its parts.

It's got 43 supply partners in eight countries. So these delays have hurt Boeing's credibility, its sales and it's cost billions. Still, despite all of that, it's Boeing's most successful launch ever. Boeing shares right now are flat, but they're close to a 52-week high. And the market other than that not doing so much. Tony?

HARRIS: When are we going to be able, Ms. Susan, to book flights on this Dreamliner?

LISOVICZ: Not soon enough. I can tell you my vacation I was on a rusty old flight. I was looking for something new. The first commercial flight not scheduled until 2011. There are 840 orders and that -- remember there are some that were cancelled because of the global recession.

Japan will be the first carrier to get it. Here in the U.S., Continental and Northwest are buying the Dreamliner. Boeing says carriers will save 20 percent in fuel costs. Tony Harris, it remains to be seen if those savings will be passed on to you and me. And we're looking at live pictures.

HARRIS: And we're in Washington, right?

LISOVICZ: We're in Washington, yes, lots of folks on hand. Let's hope it's a successful launch.

HARRIS: Fingers crossed. All right, Susan, great to see you. Welcome back. We've missed you.

LISOVICZ: Likewise, thank you, Tony.

HARRIS: And start your new year early. Find out which ten stocks are the best for 2010. Just log on to CNNMoney.com.

Green jobs, you're hearing a lot about them. What are they and can you get one? We will talk to a woman who started one of the first green job training programs. It is called best for a reason. There she is. Majora Carter joining me next hour right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And very quickly, Senator Lieberman now taking questions on health care reform. Let's listen in.

QUESTION: Can you also talk a little more about the e-mails themselves? Did you learn anything about their content?

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (I), CONNECTICUT: No. I mean, one, we didn't pursue that. If we did, we couldn't say any more. But I mean the questions we're asking really are because -- and again, I go to the public hearing, General Keane and others testified a while back, that existing army personnel regulations dealing with extremism, infiltration, subversion mostly are Cold War era procedures. In other words, they're related to a different kind of threat. And that's troubling. And of course it's eight years after 9/11, so it's time to --

HARRIS: OK. I've got to tell you. A moment before we came back, Senator Lieberman was asked a question about health care reform and his objection to the Medicare buy-in proposals and he absolutely positively just dismissed the question. No response at all. So we're going to move on. Let's get to Rob Marciano now in the severe weather center. Plenty for you to talk about here, Rob. Take it away, doctor.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: Pop the cork and celebrate in the British wine country. Raise your glass to better grapes or climate change.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Checking top stories now, eight people killed in a string of bombings in Iraq. Three car bombs detonated within minutes of each other near Baghdad's fortified Green Zone while in Mosul it was two car bombs and a roadside bomb exploding minutes apart.

A massive recall on window coverings. A federal agency is recalling 50 million roman-style shades and roll-up blinds. A number of children have been strangled by the cords. The Consumer Product Safety Commission says it will provide repair kits to help eliminate the hazard.

President Obama is expected to announce some Guantanamo Bay prisoners will be transferred to an Illinois prison. Illinois' governor says the deal could provide 2,000 jobs to the area. The mostly vacant maximum security prison is in Thomson, about 150 miles west of Chicago. The Republican leadership is already firing back at this announcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP.JOHN BOEHNER (R), MINORITY LEADER: I suspect they're going to call for tens of millions of dollars to be spent to upgrade this facility in order to move those prisoners there. And I can tell you that I will not vote to spend one dime to move those prisoners to the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: OK. We want to hear from you on this story. Despite the fact it is nearly impossible to escape from a maximum security prison, are you worried bringing Guantanamo detainees to the United States will pose a security threat to the country? Just go to our blog here, CNN.com/Tony. And if you would, drop us a comment. I'll read some of those in the next hour of the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: OK we're trying to time this out and I think we've got it. Here is Senator Lieberman once again on health care reform.

LIEBERMAN: We've learned in the hectic last couple of weeks is that we all ought to be looking at paper. This is a legislative process. We ought to be looking at specific legislative language before we say I agree or I object. But, you know, to be as explicit as I can be now, if as appears to be happening, the so-called public option, government-run insurance program is out and the Medicare buy-in, which I thought would jeopardize Medicare, cost taxpayers billions of dollars over the long haul, increase our deficit is out and there's no other attempts to bring things like that in, then I'm going to be in a position where I can say -- I'm getting toward that position where I can say what I've wanted to say all along, that I'm ready to vote for health care reform.

My whole point has been here that the president laid out a couple of big goals for this process. Bend the cost curve down for individuals, families, businesses, our government, our economy of health care and, secondly, bring a lot of people in who can't afford health insurance now. The basic core bill does that. I think some of the other things were going to add to our debt, increase taxes and were just not necessary to achieve those two goals. So I think we're heading in the right direction.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: How much pressure, if any, have you been getting?

LIEBERMAN: I thought you were going to be reverent.

QUESTION: I'm trying.

LIEBERMAN: I haven't received any pressure from insurance companies. I mean it. Periodically they'll talk to my staff about one thing or another. But I've never hesitated to take on the insurance companies.

So I'm just -- the reason I was against the public option is the same reason that a lot of people are worried about this overall health care reform proposal, which is that they think it's getting too big and they worry that it's going to increase their taxes and increase the national debt that their kids and grandkids are going to have to pay. So that's why I was taking the position.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Can you explain your comments --

LIEBERMAN: Well, I didn't change my mind on the Medicare buy-in. I know this is a classic sort of sport here, although it's not terrible to change one's mind if in fact you do. I don't want to spend too much time on this.

In the 2000 campaign when I was privileged to be Al Gore's running mate, the party platform was to suggest one way to reform health care was to allow 55 to 65-year-olds to buy into Medicare. That's a very stressed age group when you don't have insurance. But a lot of things have changed in nine years.

First is that in 2000, the federal government was in surplus and paying off the debt, not having increased the debt enormously. Secondly, Medicare wasn't on the verge of imminent bankruptcy, which it is now. And third, there wasn't a bill on the floor, such as the one on the floor now that would extend very generous subsidies to those 55 and 65-year-olds to enable them to buy insurance and reduce the impact of age in the pricing of insurance policies. So things changed a lot.

Oh, in the "Connecticut Post" interview. I finally got to see that on TV last night and it looked to me like I was referring back to things that I had supported in the past to make the point that though I was against the public option, I was not against health care reform.

And of course I did that before the finance committee bill came out with this very large, and again I'd say generous, but I supported, system of subsidies to bring basically lower, middle-income people into the health insurance system.

QUESTION: But, senator, weren't those subsidies in the health reform architecture long before that.

LIEBERMAN: Not to that extent. But look, here's the point. The Medicare buy-in as proposed didn't make sense. You can all focus on it, but it ended up, it seems to me, when advocates of the public option didn't -- saw that they didn't have the votes for the public option, they kind of tried to get it down another path. And it made no sense.

Hospitals -- incidentally, I'm not the only person in the Democratic caucus who opposed the Medicare buy-in. You saw that 11 other Democratic senators wrote to Senator Reid telling him they were against it because of the impact they thought it would have on hospitals and doctors in their state, and by cost shifting on 180 million people in America who get their insurance today through private companies. Their premiums would go up. So that's where we are now. This was unnecessary.

The fact is that the more they try to change it to get it through, separate insurance separate from Medicare, self-sustaining, the premiums they'd have to pay for it, as I said to one of the advocates of it, no one between 55 and 65 is going to be able to afford this plan. And he said to me, that's not the point, we're trying to work out a deal here.

So I said well, that doesn't make any sense to me because in the long term, the danger will be that the federal government will be pressured to take this over, make up deficits in this separate pool. And again, it's not necessary.

We've got a great health insurance reform bill here. The danger was that some of my colleagues I think were just trying to load it up with too much. And what happens then is that you run the risk of losing everything. So I think what's beginning to emerge, I know some people are not happy about it, is really a historic achievement. Health care reform such as we've not seen in this country for decades, and I --

QUESTION: Senator Lieberman, are you surprised at all -- QUESTION: Were you involved at all in supporting a bill?

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: Well, sure. First, let me say that I'm grateful for the work that Senator Lieberman has done. I believe that his principled stands have improved the bill. I very much would like to see a health care bill that is based on lowering costs, expanding access, helping small businesses pass.

But I don't see voting for the current bill that is on the floor, even with the improvements that have been made. I'm very leery of the impacts of nearly $500 billion in Medicare cuts, particularly the cuts in home health care, which are completely counterproductive of the goal -- to the goal of lowering costs. Senator Lieberman and I, Senator Wyden and I, have amendments to try to give more affordable choices and to lower the cost of health care.

It remains to be seen whether those are going to be adopted. I'm concerned about the penalties that would be imposed on smaller employers. So, this bill is getting better, but it's still too deeply flawed for me to support it.

QUESTION: Have you talked to the leadership about Senator Lieberman and Senator Wyden's proposal and your proposal to --

COLLINS: I have had some conversation, but they have not given me an answer at this point. I should make clear that while I care deeply about those amendments and believe that they make significant improvements in the bill, that their adoption would not be sufficient to persuade me to vote for the bill. I'm still very concerned about the enormous cuts in the Medicare programs and what that would mean to access to health care for our seniors.

QUESTION: Then why offer them if you don't think it's going to --

COLLINS: Because I think something is going to pass, and I would like to make that bill as good as possible, even if ultimately it's not a bill that I can support. I believe that I have an obligation to try to improve the bill, not to just say no, and that's why I've been working with colleagues on both sides of the aisle on several amendments that I believe will improve the bill, and I'm going to continue to try to improve the bill.

QUESTION: Have you had any persuasion from the other end of the avenue in recent days?

COLLINS: I've had extensive discussions with the president, with his chief of staff, with the OMB director, with the White House health policy adviser. Those have been helpful, and I appreciate the dialogue that we're having, but they certainly have not moved me towards -- to be able to support the bill at this point.

QUESTION: Thank you, senator, thank you.

HARRIS: Staying with the news, and plenty made in the last couple of minutes right here in the CNN NEWSROOM. Brianna Keilar is on Capitol Hill, and she's going to help me sort through this. Brianna, first of all, we heard from Senator Joe Lieberman, who seemed to be indicating that he is willing, at the moment, to support the core bill, if -- it's a big if -- if there is no next option coming down the tracks that in his view would create a government takeover of health care. If there is no Medicare buy-in in the bill, if there is no public option in the bill, he seems to be indicating he is willing to support the core bill. Did you hear it that way?

KEILAR: That is what I heard, and I've spoke within sources familiar with his thinking, and that is basically what they are telling me, that he does support health care reform, that he really does want to see a bill passed this year and that he's in favor of things like reforming some insurance industry practices that he sees as not consumer friendly, that he's very much in favor of providing health insurance to the millions of Americans who are uninsured in the form of those federal subsidies to help them purchase insurance.

But, of course, as we know, definitely opposed to the government- run insurance option, the public option. And he's clearly obviously opposed to that Medicare buy-in, which would have instead of a government-run insurance option, allowed uninsured Americans between the ages of 55 and 64 to buy in to Medicare.

Both of these in his mind, and we heard him basically say as much there, are vehicles to having a complete and total government takeover of health care. He said he doesn't want to see that. I spoke with one source familiar with his thinking, who said if the Medicare buy-in is completely removed from this bill, a lot of his concerns would be assuaged. And so there, Tony, it seems much more likely, and potentially likely that he would sign on and be that crucial 60th vote that Democrats need in order to pass health care reform before Christmas.

HARRIS: And is Medicare buy-in dead at least dead at the moment?

KEILAR: You know, officially Senate Democratic leaders are not waving the white flags on buy-in, but there are a lot of even liberal Democrats senators who are saying what we need to do is pass health care reform and indicating that they are willing to forgo that as long as they can get a bill. That they are not going to throw it away over the fact that they cannot get the Medicare buy-in.

HARRIS: And is there, to your knowledge, right now another amendment out there to be considered that brings back the idea of the public option?

KEILAR: Not -- not to my knowledge.

HARRIS: OK.

KEILAR: And at this point I think it's very clear there are no votes. The votes aren't there in the Senate for the government-run insurance option. They're not there for an even more watered-down version, which is not a public option, that Medicare buy-in. So I don't think that's the expectation.

HARRIS: And the politics of this, it sounds then at least that Senator Joe Lieberman would be a part of the Democratic caucus going to the White House later today and that he would say to the president what he has says to all of us, that is, that I'm willing to support the core bill.

KEILAR: No, and the White House is paying attention to what he is saying, they know that. Senator Lieberman is certainly -- he is going to the White House today, so I don't know exactly what he plans on telling them, but they know where he is on this, and he made it clear right there as well.

HARRIS: All right, Brianna Keilar on Capitol Hill. Brianna, appreciate it.

Very quickly, here's some of the stories that we're working on for the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM.

Ground zero for bank failures, we will take you there for a look at why so many banks are going belly up.

And the 12 days of Christmas travel horror, a British Airways strike could land up to a million passengers in limbo. We're going live to London for that.

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