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Campbell Brown
Health Care Reform Compromised?; Cell Phones and Radiation
Aired December 16, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, here are the questions we want answered.
Just how far will health care reform be stripped down? Anger, frustration and stonewalling on Capitol Hill. With so much tossed aside, why is the fight still raging?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, I object. I object.
BROWN: What's in? What's out? We're breaking it down.
Plus, should cell phones come with a radiation warning label? San Francisco may make it the law. But do they have the science to back it up? Dr. Sanjay Gupta has the facts about those little devices we just can't live without.
And Gloria Estefan, singing great turned White House correspondent?
GLORIA ESTEFAN, MUSICIAN: If you had the power to grant our country one holiday wish, what would it be?
BROWN: She will tell me about her interview with the commander in chief in a CNN exclusive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is your only source for news. CNN prime time begins now. Here's Campbell Brown.
BROWN: Hi, everybody. We're going to start tonight as always with the "Mash-Up." We are watching it all so you don't have to.
And our top story tonight, Democrats going rogue. We have seen it from the right. Well, now the left is in open rebellion against the health care bill in the Senate. And leading the charge, the man who one year ago led the party itself, former DNC Chairman Howard Dean. He was all over TV today, saying that without a public option the bill is not worth fighting for or voting for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: If we were Republicans, we would have rammed this thing through the way we wanted to. We're not tough enough. The Democrats are not tough enough.
This is an insurance company's dream, this bill. And will you be forced to buy insurance. If you don't, will you pay a fine. This is a bigger bailout for the insurance industry than AIG. The bill does more harm than good. At this point, I think this bill is not worth passing in its present form.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: President Obama, meanwhile, is bringing out some rhetorical big guns of his own. In an interview with ABC News, he warns that if health care doesn't pass, America will go bankrupt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we don't pass it, here's the guarantee, that the people who are watching tonight, your premiums will go up, your employers are going to load up more costs on you. Potentially, they're going to drop your coverage, because they just can't afford an increase of 25 percent, 30 percent in terms of the cost of providing health care to employees each and every year, and the federal government will go bankrupt, because Medicare and Medicaid are on a trajectory that are unsustainable.
So, anybody who says that they are concerned about the deficit, concerned about debt, concerned about loading up taxes on future generations, you have to be supportive of this health care bill, because, if we don't do this, nobody argues with the fact that health care costs are going consume the entire federal budget.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The president says that if health care reform does pass it will be the single most domestic legislation that has passed since Social Security.
But, on Capitol Hill today, Republicans were doing all in their power to make sure it doesn't pass any time soon. Witness this creative stalling tactic. Senator Bernie Sanders, an independent, introduced an amendment calling for a government-run health care system.
Now, usually, these amendments are not read allowed in their entirety. They can be pretty long. But today Republican Tom Coburn insisted on a verbal recitation of the Sanders amendment, all 767 pages of it. Check it out, people. Here is your Congress at work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The senator from Vermont, without objection.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Mr. President, I call my amendment per the order.
SEN. TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: I ask the amendment be considered as read. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, I object.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... objection.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I object.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection is heard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The table of contents of this act is as follows.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To ensure appropriate cost-effective utilization of such services in a comprehensive and continuous manner, and includes, A...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: B, basis for total expenditures, one, in general...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on every employer an excise tax. A...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The senator from Vermont.
SANDERS: I withdraw my amendment.
We have a $12 trillion national debt, and the best the Republicans can do is try to bring the United States government to a halt by forcing a reading of a 700-page amendment. That is an outrage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: As you saw there, Senator Sanders finally gave in and did withdraw his amendment. It would have taken about 12 hours to read the whole thing. Ah, Washington at work.
And turning now to Iran, which test-fired a high-speed missile today in a brazen show of defiance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Iranians so far have missile capability to can go roughly 400 miles. They have missile capability that they have tested that can go about 800 miles from Iran.
This latest one, we think, can go about 1,200 miles, 2,000 kilometers.
JOSEPH CIRINCIONE, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: it's a mobile device. So, they don't have to spend hours or days bringing the missile out to a launchpad and pumping the fuel into it. They can put it on a truck, hide it in caves, bring it out.
And the significance of this is not just how far the missile can launch or what fuel it has, but the fact that you have a missile that goes into this range means that it's designed to carry a nuclear warhead.
It's always hard to figure out Iranian motivations, but it's one of two things. Either it's an in your face, you're not going to push us around demonstration of their strength, or it could be, as is often the case with Iran and North Korea, a show of strength before they make a concession.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: A Pentagon spokesman says today's tests undermine claims of peaceful intentions.
Turning to Brazil, where at long last an American father is a giant step closer to being reunited with his son.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After a slew of court battles, in a 3-0 decision, a Brazilian court said the 9-year-old must be returned to his father in New Jersey.
KATIE COURIC, HOST, "CBS EVENING NEWS": Tonight, his father hopes Sean will finally be coming home.
DAVID GOLDMAN, FATHER FIGHTING TO GET SON BACK: This is a very positive development. And thank God that these judges ordered him to come home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Goldman's ordeal began in 2004. Sean, then only 5, went with his Brazilian mother to visit her family in Rio. She later died in childbirth and the boy's Brazilian stepfather refused to give him up.
GOLDMAN: I have been down this road for 5.5 years. Until I'm on the plane with Sean and the wheels are up, I can only be hopeful.
QUESTION: And once he's here, what you are going to do first?
GOLDMAN: Be his dad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The Brazil -- the boy's, rather, Brazilian relatives are expected to appeal the court's decision.
Moving on to the Tiger Woods saga, the embattled golfer apparently not returning his friends' phone calls. At least, that is what Charles Barkley says on the HLN show "With All Due Respect."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPIKE LEE, DIRECTOR: If Charles Barkley and Michael Jordan can't get to him...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. That's insulation, because you have like his number.
LEE: And those are his boys.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have his number, right?
CHARLES BARKLEY, FORMER NBA PLAYER: Oh, he changed his number.
LEE: He changed it.
(LAUGHTER)
LEE: If Charles and Mike can't get to him, then...
(CROSSTALK)
LEE: ... these other people are making bad moves.
(CROSSTALK)
BARKLEY: I think that when you have these fires in your life, as I call them, you need to talk to somebody else who is famous who have been through things in their life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Barkley says he just wants to tell Woods that he loves him.
And that brings us to the "Punchline," courtesy of the good folks at "The Colbert Report," who know a gold rush when they see it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, I'm John Slattery (ph) for Prescott Financial.
The global economic crisis has left investors with few places to safeguard their wealth. It seems no investment is safe, except one, gold.
Gold is the only investment that will never lose its value, because it's gold.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at it. It's shiny. Yes, after our propped-up banks fail, gold will be the only law in the afterscape. So, ask yourself, when the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) goes down, what do you want in the briefcase handcuffed to your arm? Gold.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: "The Colbert Report," everybody. And that is the "Mash- Up."
Up next: the big fight in Washington that will affect every single American, a health care plan that has been stripped down and made over. Find out what is in, what is out, and why some senators are frankly acting like crybabies.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, the fight over health care reform is getting even nastier. Not only are Republicans trying to stop the bill at every turn. Democrats are getting angry about the compromises Senate leaders are making in order to pass something by Christmas.
In a moment, we are going to look at what is left in the Senate bill. But, first, I want to you listen as CNN senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash catches up with the Democratic Congressman John Larson of Connecticut. He has got some pretty harsh words for one of his own state's lawmakers, Senator Joe Lieberman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As you know, the Senate is poised to pass or at least try to pass a bill with no public option and no Medicare buy-in. Will that fly in the House?
REP. JOHN LARSON (D), CONNECTICUT: No, it won't fly in the House. But at this point, we're hopeful that the Senate will just pass something, so that we can get it to conference, where we -- where we believe that we will have greater influence and we also believe that the president will be able to weigh in.
BASH: How much frustration -- or maybe frustration isn't strong enough a word. You tell me what word you would use that, as you said, that pick your issue, there is a senator on your side of the aisle, a Democratic senator, who is holding it up because of it.
LARSON: Well, an independent senator.
(CROSSTALK)
LARSON: Listen, I have known Joe Lieberman all my adult life. And I have great respect and admiration for so many of the positions that he has taken throughout his life.
Frustration doesn't describe, I think, not only I, but, more importantly, the people of Connecticut, and, most importantly, the people that are impacted by lack of action. And so it is very disappointing.
BASH: Knowing what you know about your caucus, how difficult will it be to pass something without a public option?
LARSON: Well, of course it will be very difficult in our caucus and very disappointing to so many members who believe that a public option was essential to both driving down the cost and bending the curve that had been talked about, but as importantly creating the competition that is needed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Our Tom Foreman here now to break down exactly what they are fighting over -- Tom.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, let's look at which provisions as of this evening in the Senate bill still seem to be healthy and which ones appear to be in critical conditions, if not outright dead at this point.
The current bill would crack down on insurance companies in its language in this way. There would be no more denial of coverage for preexisting conditions, no lifetime caps on benefits. In effect, your insurance won't just run out.
The insurance companies would likely benefit from requirements for people to buy insurance and subsidies for those who can't afford it and encouragement of some sort for folks to keep healthy. So, if that is what is still in, here is what is out, the public option right up top, a government-run health care program which many liberals consider an absolute cornerstone of reform. Many of them are furious about this being dropped.
Expansion of Medicare also appears to be out to people over 55, not just seniors. This was one alternative to the public option, but it also seems fated to go away. And also out, a plan to let people buy less expensive medicine from overseas suppliers. An amendment to permit that practice was defeated.
But there are still some big hurdles, even if they can past all that, that remain in this whole measure. And that is what the White House has to be concerned about, the first one, 60 votes. The Democrats need that many to block any attempted filibuster. It's not clear if they can get them.
Abortion remains an unresolved issue. Some say they can't back a measure that will permit any public money going for abortions. Others say they can't tolerate any restriction on abortion rights for women who might need help from the government to buy their insurance.
And the final part, opposition. Both conservatives and liberals can cite plenty of reasons why they are unhappy with the working version of this bill in the Senate right now, let alone reconciling it with the House version. And collectively that could be enough to take it from the ICU right into the morgue, depending on how they feel about it -- Campbell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Tom Foreman for us tonight from D.C.
When we come back, tonight's big question: Should cell phones come with a radiation warning label? One big city may soon make it the law. Dr. Sanjay Gupta has the bottom line on the health risks.
Plus, a look at one of the most powerful men in the world, "TIME"'s person of the year, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke. Did he really save the global economy? Really?
Ali Velshi and Charlie Gasparino have their own opinions when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke is "TIME" magazine's 2009 person of the year. The magazine's editors call him the most powerful nerd on the planet and credit him with preventing a financial catastrophe, saying -- quote -- "He didn't just reshape U.S. monetary policy. He led an effort to save the world economy."
Well, the ladies on "The View" aren't buying it. Here they are, along with Bernanke from CBS' "60 Minutes." Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn't he the guy who sort of put into place a lot of the policies that caused this meltdown?
BEN BERNANKE, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: The Federal Reserve is here and is going to do everything possible to support this recovery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The person of the year, it's who most affected our lives for the good or for the bad. So, they're saying a weak recovery is better than a Great Depression.
BERNANKE: I understand why the American people are angry. It's absolutely unfair that taxpayer dollars are going to prop up a company that made these terrible bets, that was operating out of the sight of regulators, but which we have no choice but to stabilize, or else risk enormous impact not just on the financial system, but on the whole U.S. economy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, he decided to use money for the bailout is what happened. So, there you go.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But that is the system we have in this country. It is not that great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Joining me now from Savannah, Georgia, CNN chief business correspondent Ali Velshi and here with me in the studio, Charlie Gasparino, CNBC on-air editor and author of "The Sellout: How Three Decades of Wall Street Greed and Government Mismanagement Destroyed the Global Financial System."
So, guys, "TIME" magazine calls Bernanke -- quote here -- "the most important player guiding the world's most important economy." But, Charlie, let's see. We have got unemployment at 10 percent. Businesses are not lending. Consumer spending sluggish. Did he deserve it? What?
(LAUGHTER)
CHARLES GASPARINO, "NEWSWEEK": He is the most important player.
But I didn't believe I'm agreeing with Joy Behar. Once in my life, I'm agreeing with Joy Behar, because she's right. He put in the policies that were supposed to be -- he was the guy that was supposed to be monitoring the banks while they were developing all that risk, while they were taking on all that stuff.
And he is an acolyte of Alan Greenspan, the former Fed chairman, who believed all those derivatives and all those credit faults and all that crazy stuff that was supposed to reduce risk, they really believed that was an answer. And we know now that wasn't the answer.
Listen, for my money, the real sort of hero, the man of the year should have been Paul Volcker, who is now an economic adviser to Obama, because he warned against all this stuff that put us in the shape we're in right now.
BROWN: Ali, what do you think here?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Unfortunately, you don't get to be "TIME" man of the year for warning or advising.
The reality is "TIME" has said that the economy -- and they are right about this -- was the story of 2009. And he is a big player in the economy. I should say -- if somebody asked me what award he should get, maybe he should get most improved student, because Charlie is right.
Back in 2008, when President Bush and Treasury Secretary Paulson were saying the economy is fundamentally strong, so was Ben Bernanke. And guess what? The economy was not fundamentally strong. He got it very wrong at the front end. But then he realized how wrong he got it. And he has spent the last year making a great deal of sense. So, I think he gets best improved student. I don't know about the man of the year. That was an unusual pick.
BROWN: So, Ali, the power of the Fed has expanded a lot under him. Explain to us how and what -- how that has affected his ability to do what he has done.
VELSHI: Well, this is something that people don't realize. We spend a great deal of time talking about TARP, the bailout, $700 billion. And we spend a great deal of time talking about the stimulus, $787 billion.
The Fed in one day earlier this summer put more money into this economy than both of those two things combined, which is why we have mortgage rates sitting around 5 percent. The Fed has been much more responsible for the stimulus and the cheap money. Now, the other night, Charlie and I were getting into about the fact that the banks are making money on the spread between how little it costs to borrow money from the Fed and how much they get when they lend it out.
The bottom line is, that is still a Fed policy. But the Fed has had much more impact on the cheap money that is now trying to level this economy out than the federal government has.
GASPARINO: And also maybe setting the stage for massive inflation, which is the sort of interesting thing here.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Well, talk about that, because it was just announced today that short-term interest rates are going stay basically near zero.
GASPARINO: Near zero.
BROWN: So, what does that mean going forward? I mean, how long can they maintain this on this path without...
(CROSSTALK)
GASPARINO: You worry about inflation. We obviously don't have inflation in terms of housing prices and things of that nature.
But think of it this way. We are inflating certain parts of the economy. The stock market is at 10000. The Dow Jones industrial average is at 10000 mainly because interest rates are so low, people are not putting their money in the bank. What do you yield on a Treasury bill or a Treasury bond? Almost nothing. So, you have to put your money in the stock market. The market right now I believe -- and a lot of other economists believe -- is not working off of fundamentals.
BROWN: Ali, do you agree with that?
VELSHI: Yes. Well, what you can do, what our viewers can do to take advantage of that -- you worry about inflation when you get inflation. But what you can do to actually take advantage of this is, you can look at real estate.
Inflation -- interest rates are very, very low. There is not a good alternative to put your money in. This is what might end up stabilizing the housing market.
So, again, Ben Bernanke might get more kudos a year from now for these low interest rates than he's getting right now. That might be the game-changer.
(CROSSTALK)
GASPARINO: Or he might get criticism for inflating the economy.
VELSHI: Yes.
GASPARINO: People are worried about all this money. This is unprecedented, how low interest rates are right now.
And we had never had a time when you put interest rates this low and we have didn't have some of inflationary, massive inflationary impact.
VELSHI: Right.
GASPARINO: Remember, one of the reasons why the mortgage market went through the roof, why you had a mortgage bubble, housing bubble, is because, after the dot-com bubble blew up in 2000, after 9/11, 2001, Alan Greenspan took interest rates to 1 percent. That's the fed funds rate, the base rate, which all other rates are based off. He took it to 1 percent.
Now it's at, what, 0.25 percent? I believe it is. That's almost zero.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: The thing that caused the problem might be the thing that you need to solve the problem right now. And this is where Ben Bernanke, as a student of the Depression, realizes that, back then, he didn't think the federal government and the Federal Reserve did enough fast enough to flood the markets with money.
So, intellectually, he thinks that is the right thing to do. You can disagree with that. And many, many people do. And it might be dangerous. But he fundamentally believes, because of his studies of the Depression, that that is what you do. When you have a recession, put as much cheap money out there as you can to try and shore it up.
GASPARINO: But, you know, he acted very late in that regard. You know that -- 2007, when this crisis first began, and people were saying we have a massive mortgage crisis, we have a problem with credit on Wall Street, he was kind of dithering.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: I agree with you.
GASPARINO: He didn't think it was anything. He didn't think it was that bad. And then when the stuff hit the fan is where he ramped it up.
VELSHI: That's why I say most improved student.
GASPARINO: Yes, I agree with that, most improved student.
VELSHI: That's why I say most improved student.
BROWN: All right, I'm calling it a split decision. OK, guys, many thanks.
Charlie Gasparino, Ali Velshi as well, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
When we come back: For two weeks, the world has gathered in Copenhagen talking tough on global warming. Right now, President Obama is ready to go head to head with other leaders. Can he possibly work out a deal on this front?
Plus, Sin City's big bet, the high-stakes gamble that could be boom or bust for Vegas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OSCAR GOODMAN (D), MAYOR OF LAS VEGAS: You know, the private sector is a lot smarter than the public sector and the critics in the private sector. They don't make this kind of investment unless they've done the -- the studies and their due diligence. So, I absolutely feel confident that it's going to be an overnight success.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tomorrow night, President Obama heads to Copenhagen, hoping to use his political clout to try and get a deal at the U.N. climate change conference. Right now, things there have turned, well, somewhat chaotic. More than 200 protesters were arrested today after 3,000 protesters marched through the streets, and the head of the conference stepped down, letting Denmark's prime minister take over.
The official statement warns that final negotiations between President Obama and other world leaders are expected to be -- quote -- "tense and strenuous."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Joining me now are Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS," and Christiane Amanpour, CNN's chief international correspondent and host of "AMANPOUR."
Welcome to you both.
Fareed, let me start with you on this.
The president heading to Copenhagen to jump into the climate change summit, which has been, let's be honest, pretty much in disarray from the beginning. What happens now? What can he do to smooth things over, to try to get something out of this?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, he can give a great speech, but it's not going to do much, because going to Copenhagen, there was a fundamental structural problem. And that still exists, which is that the Western nations may do whatever they want, but 80 percent of the problem going forward is the problem of very specifically coal-fired power plants in China and India.
In other words, the desire of India and China to lift enormous numbers of people out of poverty, to do that, they have to use energy. The cheapest energy they have is coal. That is what is going to put up 80 percent of the new C02 emissions into the atmosphere.
They are not on board with anything that the West wants to do. And until you get them on board, nothing is going to happen. Now, I think this is going to be much, much longer, much more complicated set of negotiations that anybody might have expected five years ago.
BROWN: Does he walk away from this with anything?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not, does he? It's, does the world walk away with this with any progress towards a carbon-free economy?
And, as Fareed said, it is about the so-called developing nations. India and China said that they will voluntarily cut some emissions and make some curbs, but they are not bound by any legal sort of constraints at all.
So, the question is also the struggle between the developed world and the developing. The developing world at one point walked out of the conference, because they thought they were not getting enough payment in return for cutting down on some of their carbon economy.
There's some progress in the deforestation field. That's about the only bright light. And that is that some progress has been made to sort of save the forests and to have them some financial incentive to save the forests and some of the peoples which is so vitally necessary.
BROWN: And address particularly because much of this has been the U.S. and China at odds as we have watched over the last week especially. Do you see any sort of bridge or coming together in terms of that relationship?
ZAKARIA: Well, the Chinese are being more -- as Christiane said, they are agreeing to more than they have ever agreed to before. The Indians have actually also come forward with some proposals. But there's a fundamental problem. For them, the Chinese and the Indians, the alleviation of poverty is their most pressing concern. They think that this is far overrides anything else, and they're going do it. And the only way they can do it is to use coal and to use, you cheap forms of energy.
If we could find a way to subsidize clean coal energy in China and India, that might help and that might be the beginnings of a deal. But I said the beginnings because, first, you find a Western politician is going to go, you know, his public or her public and say, I'm going to tax you and send the money to China and India. You disguise that in a sense with cap and trade.
But then there's a second problem which is find me the clean energy. We talk about things like clean coal, but on this Al Gore is quite right. Clean coal is for now an oxymoron. There is no such thing as clean coal. So even if you have the money to fund clean energy in India and China, we don't have the technology.
BROWN: Yes, the technology. AMANPOUR: And, of course, nuclear power which France uses to great success. Eighty percent of its electricity is run by nuclear power, is a political hot potato in much of the world. So, you know, that's a big struggle. A lot of people are saying that nuclear power should be the solution, but that's a big political and social struggle in the United States.
And then, of course, you have this double standard, whereby, India and China are saying, hang on a second. You guys are the biggest polluters in the world. What are you doing about it? Talking about the United States. So there's a lot that the U.S. needs to do as well as the developing countries.
BROWN: Christiane Amanpour and Fareed Zakaria for us tonight. Thanks very much.
Up next, two exclusives. President Obama, Gloria Estefan. In just a minute, Gloria Estefan tells me what President Obama told her in her exclusive interview.
Also, is using your cell phone exposing you to unhealthy levels of radiation? One of the country's biggest cities is actually thinking about slapping warning labels on the cell phones. We will talk about it next. You might on every cell phone that is sold. We're going to cut through the static with our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Talk about a high level summit. Grammy Award winner Gloria Estefan and President Barack Obama walking side by side through the White House. The singing superstar got a VIP tour for her Christmas special on Univision and we got an exclusive sneak peek. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is one of the favorite times of the year for the White House because everybody decorates every inch of the White House. And the girls are having a great time with it.
GLORIA ESTEFAN, GRAMMY AWARD WINNING SINGER/SONGWRITER: It is very beautiful. And, by the way, I have a very important question to start off this interview.
OBAMA: What's that?
ESTEFAN: Which chimney will Satan be coming down?
OBAMA: Well, we think that he's going to be coming down into the Yellow Room, which is right in the middle of the residence. So, that's where we're going to set the cookies and the milk. Because after working all night out and giving out those gifts --
ESTEFAN: And something for the reindeer. OBAMA: And the reindeer, we'll have a little reindeer snack out there.
ESTEFAN: That's wonderful.
OBAMA: Because, you know, we want to make sure when he comes to the White House that he feels like he's getting good service.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And right now I am joined by Gloria to talk about her interview with the president. She's live on the phone with us from Miami.
Gloria, are you there?
GLORIA ESTEFAN, GRAMMY AWARD WINNING SINGER/SONGWRITER (via telephone): I am here, Campbell. How are you?
BROWN: I'm great, how are you?
ESTEFAN: I'm wonderful, enjoying the holidays with family and busy like everyone at this time of the year.
BROWN: Well, I had to say you look awfully comfortable there with the president. Tell us how this came about. How did you land this big interview with the commander-in-chief?
ESTEFAN: You know what? I'm a lucky girl, first of all. I felt comfortable. You know, he is a person who is such at ease and he is very warm and down to earth. And we had met before when we did a special there for Hispanic Heritage Week and we had spoken a couple of weeks before the election, so we have a bit of a history and the fact that he loves (INAUDIBLE) and dance to it when his girls were little helps a lot too. And he was really wonderful to talk to us Hispanics, which is what are you going to do tomorrow night at 10:00 for this special.
BROWN: And I should say, too, that you talked about more than just cookies and reindeer.
ESTEFAN: Yes, of course.
BROWN: You got into some fairly serious stuff with him. And let's take a look at a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ESTEFAN: Mr. President, this year more than ever people need to help each other. Few had the power to grant our country one holiday wish. What would it be?
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My biggest Christmas wish is that we can get this economy moving again and put people back to work. And obviously, that's particularly important in the Latino community because unemployment has been worse in that sector. Construction, which was such a big employer, has really declined significantly. And that's why through the recovery act we've been really emphasizing investment in infrastructure, extending unemployment insurance so that people can get help. Those are some things that I've got under my control and I'm going to be working as hard as I can to see if we can deliver on that Christmas -- Christmas present.
ESTEFAN: Yes. Let's hope that gift is under everybody's tree.
OBAMA: Absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Pretty serious Christmas wish there. Give us a sense of what else you talked about? Give us a little preview.
ESTEFAN: Well, I've got to say, you know, since this is a Christmas special and it was wonderful for the White House to make time for us, there was a lot going on especially that day we filmed the interview, and the president was wonderful throughout the entire time. You know, it's a great platform to be able to speak to Hispanics. It's a special though. You want to ask some serious things, you want some serious things. You want to have some fun with it as well, and he's a very charismatic person.
So we thought about a lot of different things, you know, especially since more soldiers will be shipped out. You know, I'm an Army brat. I know what it's like to be a military family and I know that that was a very hard decision he had to make about sending 30,000 more troops out there to Afghanistan and, you know, all this was going on and he was wonderful about it. He answered every question. He spoke in Spanish and gave a great message at the end. It was a really wonderful experience for me. A privilege and an honor always since I've been fortunate enough to meet the last five presidents of the United States. That was a great thrill for me.
BROWN: And also, Gloria, so few people get the opportunity especially around the holidays to experience the White House. Give us a sense of what it was like behind the scenes with him. What surprised you most?
ESTEFAN: It really is wonderful. You know what surprised me most? That he walked into the room and we were all just sitting there, you know, doing our thing, doing some lines and there was no huge "ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States."
It was very -- it's very laidback. He's a hard worker, and you could feel the work going on. You know, there's a lot happening and it's a buzz with a lot of energy. That I felt definitely at the White House. And I've been there quite a few times and it really is a place where you can tell that there is a lot happening and a lot of energy being exchanged.
BROWN: All right, Gloria Estefan for us tonight. Congratulations. It looks like great fun. We will certainly be watching. ESTEFAN: Thank you so much. It really was a thrill as it is for me always to be on your show, Campbell.
BROWN: Oh, you're a sweetheart. Happy holidays to you.
And when we come back, still, should your cell phone be -- should your cell phone now come with a warning label? Dr. Sanjay Gupta helps us get to the bottom of the controversy.
Also next, Sin City's multibillion dollar gamble, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Las Vegas has never shied away from a big bet. And tonight, a new massive luxury casino is opening right in the middle of the strip but also right in the middle of a recession. It's called CityCenter, an $8.5 billion gamble and the future of Sin City could be riding on it. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): It's a complex of hotels, spas, condos, pools and restaurants. There's convention space, loads of artwork, of course, a casino. And a brand new Elvis Presley Cirque de Soleil show.
DAVID SCHWARTZ, CENTER FOR GAMING RESEARCH: People are hoping that it's going to really grow the market, that it's going to draw people who haven't been coming to Vegas before, and it's really going to reverse these declines.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In essence save Las Vegas?
SCHWARTZ: In some ways, yes, save Las Vegas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's because Las Vegas has seen 22 straight months of declines in gaming revenues. A disastrous chain of events that's produced a 13 percent unemployment rate. The city leads the nation in foreclosures. So for the local economy, CityCenter feels like a massive economic stimulus.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Joining me right now is the mayor of Las Vegas, Oscar Goodman.
Mr. Mayor, welcome to you.
I know you've said that you pray every night CityCenter is going to be this huge success.
How much is your city counting on it to turn its fortunes around?
MAYOR OSCAR GOODMAN, LAS VEGAS: Oh, it's very important, Campbell. And it's nice talking to you. It's an amazing complex. It's something that I've never seen in my lifetime. It's -- it really is so special. It's exquisite, it's different. It's -- it's non-Las Vegasy. It doesn't have the -- the feeling of Caesars and the Bellagio and the Palazzo and the Wynn. This is something unique. It's very exquisite. It's very stylish. It's very up class.
And we're depending on this, really, to turn the tide around. We've had a couple of hard knocks recently by with the Cirque du Soleil/Elvis show, the great restaurants that are there, the wonderful public art that's there. We believe that it's really going to create a new reason for people to come to Las Vegas. And that's what we're all about...
BROWN: Right...
GOODMAN: ... reinventing ourselves. We're very...
BROWN: But...
GOODMAN: ... we're very excited about it.
BROWN: How big of a gamble is this?
I mean what if it doesn't work?
GOODMAN: Oh, no. You know, the private sector is a lot smarter than the public sector and the critics in the private sector. They don't make this kind of investment unless they've done the -- the studies, the due diligence. So I absolutely feel confident that it's going to be an overnight success and...
BROWN: All right.
GOODMAN: And it has every indicia of being that.
BROWN: But that's what I want to ask you about, because there's this new study that came out today saying that CityCenter could actually harm Las Vegas by pushing down rates at hotels across the rest of the city.
GOODMAN: I don't see it that way. I just think it's another reason why people are going to come here. And what has happened historically in Las Vegas is folks who would have stayed, let's say, at the Bellagio, they're going to try out the CityCenter, the ARIA, for instance, and the other wonderful, Mandarin and that kind of thing. And then they go back to a comfort zone.
So if they like CityCenter better than where they came from, they're going to return to CityCenter. If they like the Bellagio better than their experience at CityCenter, they're going to go back to the Bellagio.
BROWN: You're talking about these high end destination hotels. And this is supposed to be a luxury destination, too.
Are you concerned, in this economy, that people are scaling back and they may not be able to afford that kind of Vegas experience? GOODMAN: Well, there's no question that the economy is very challenging. You know, the infrastructure of Las Vegas is great. We've got the best of everything. We've got the best entertainment. We've got the best food, the best shopping, the whole works.
And where we're having our difficulty, of course, is the rest of the world is in a recession. And they come out here and they are looking for the bargain now. They don't want to pay the kind of hotel rates that really are necessary in order to create the grandeur that we have here. And they're getting the bargain at this point in time. But as the economy comes back and people have money and they have confidence in their own individual lifestyles and they come and go to Vegas for a good time, they're going to be able to pay whatever the asking price is and everybody is going to benefit as a result of that.
BROWN: Well, you're right. I know, your -- your community has been one of the hardest hit in the country, frankly.
Do you see any signs at all that things may be turning around a little bit?
GOODMAN: Yes, anecdotally, I can tell you that without question. About a half a year ago was a disaster. The first responders, the folks doing the valets, the car parks, the taxicab drivers, they were all crying the blues. And they're saying that people are now coming here, they're spending more money, they're tipping better and they feel like we have the first steps to coming back and being where we were just a year ago.
And I have -- my glass is always half full. I'm the most optimistic guy in the world. That's why I am the happiest man in the universe.
BROWN: All right. Well, Mayor Oscar Goodman, we're all going to be watching to see how Vegas' big gamble turns out.
Really appreciate your time.
GOODMAN: OK.
Everybody keep their fingers crossed.
BROWN: And "LARRY KING LIVE" starts at the top of the hour. Larry, what do you have for us tonight?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": First, Campbell, that's a fantastic setup in Vegas. It's beyond belief.
BROWN: Well, at least they have one customer, right?
KING: No, I don't know if I can afford it but it's beyond belief.
Health care reform, Campbell, is twisting in the wind. What's going on? And what do African-Americans think of President Obama a year after the election? Now Tiger Woods has been lauded today with an honor any athlete in the world would want. "AP" calls him "Athlete of the Decade." Find out why, next on "LARRY KING LIVE" -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Larry, we'll see you in a few minutes.
Should cell phones come with a radiation warning label? San Francisco may make it the law. Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me to look at the science behind the controversy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: You know, a few decades ago, plenty of Americans carried a pack of cigarettes in their pocket. Warning labels about nicotine and tar did help change that.
Today, we carry cell phones despite some research suggesting a risk due to radiation exposure. Well, now, San Francisco could become the first city in the country to order mandatory warning labels listing radiation levels for cell phones. CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here with us now to tell us whether there is anything to this.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: They call me the grim reaper.
BROWN: Well, I know. You're scaring me a little bit. I mean, there's a lot of radiation here, yes?
GUPTA: Well, I mean, you know, the right answer is we don't know for sure what exactly these cell phones can potentially do. There's been a lot of science out there. The American Cancer Society, the World Health Organization saying we don't have reason necessarily to be concerned. But it's one of those things in science, it's very hard to prove something doesn't have an association. You can prove associations.
BROWN: Right.
GUPTA: Including a negative much harder, and I think they're in lies part of the problem. I will tell you, because I'm very interested in this and I've talked to lots of people who are experts in this area -- smart people, you know, who I think have reasonable opinions on things and they say, you know, let's be a little cautious here. We're not talking about ionizing radiation. That's the stuff comes out of x-rays.
BROWN: Right.
GUPTA: We know that's bad in high doses. This is non-ionizing or electromagnetic radiation. And the question is, you know, over time how much of an impact does it really have? Over a lifetime now because people use these cell phones their entire lives and they use them a lot of hours of the day.
The one thing I thought was sort of interesting is that they give off a lot of heat as well, and there are these things near the brain called heat shock proteins which can respond to that heat. What is the impact of that over time? It's just -- it's just a little hard to say and I think that's why these cautions come out.
BROWN: So are there ways to lessen your exposure and try to prevent some of this?
GUPTA: Absolutely. And that's the good news. You know, in medicine as with most things, it's a risk-benefit analysis. So for me, for example, I know that you exponentially decrease the amount of radiation the further away this is from your ear, from your brain.
BROWN: Right.
GUPTA: So, you know, simply using a wired earpiece like this, I use this all the time. I carry this around with me everywhere. You know, you'll see this sort of clipped to my shirt when I'm not on air with you.
BROWN: Yes.
GUPTA: I think it's a pretty good thing. People use these blue tooth-type earpieces as well. This is wireless obviously. It gives off a lot less of the non-ionizing radiation as compared to the cell phones.
BROWN: To the cell phone.
GUPTA: But people wear it in their ear all day long as well. So that might be a little bit of a problem. I think this is far your best bet. You can use a landline too. That's the other thing that -- remember those?
BROWN: Yes, landlines. Yes, what was that exactly? I read this. They actually rank cell phones. And I know you got this for us, from those with the most radiation to the least. And so I do think people want to see that list.
GUPTA: Yes, it's an interesting list. And I think a lot of people see their own phones on there. They have the lowest radiation cell phones I think, first of all. Some of these you may have heard of, the Beyond E-Tech Duet D8. A lot of Samsung phones on there.
BROWN: Yes.
GUPTA: Those are all the lowest radiation cell phones. The way they look at these things, they look at something known as a specific absorption rate of radiation. How much you're absorbing radiation from this particular cell phone. And these are all around, you know, 0.1 to 0.2. When you get up to the 1.5, 1.6 level, they think that's, you know, sort of the upper limit of what's acceptable and you could take a look at some of the phones that have the highest amount of radiation that are given off as well. Motorolas, you could see several of them there. Also the BlackBerry Curve, which is a cell phone --
BROWN: Which I'm looking at like five of them sitting right here.
GUPTA: Right.
BROWN: We asked the crew to throw their stuff on that table just so we could get a sense for well, pretty much everybody.
GUPTA: This is -- that's right. This is a commonly used phone and it gives off close to 1.6 SAR, again, the specific absorption rate. That's again the upper limit of normal and I think, you know, most of the guys in the crew throwing their phones up here, we use these things all day long.
BROWN: Now, just to be clear here, scientists do not agree entirely on whether cell phones do pose a health risk. It's still pretty gray, right?
GUPTA: I think that most of organized science based on the existing data will say there's not enough evidence to suggest there is a risk. Not just of cancer but of things like sleeplessness, hyperactivity in children, all sorts of different problems. In fact, you know, the organization that oversees this, the wireless industry, they release statements on this all the time and we've interviewed them in the past and they basically say, "The views of impartial health organizations, the peer-reviewed scientific evidence has overwhelmingly indicated that wireless devices do not pose a public health risk. In addition, there's no known mechanism for microwave energy within the limits established to cause any adverse health effects."
That's been their statement for some time, in the last couple of years that I've been looking into it. I think they're going to stick to that statement. But it becomes one of those things, Campbell, to prevent this, it's not that hard.
BROWN: Right. So why not?
GUPTA: Why not? And do you really want science to catch up with this...
BROWN: Later.
GUPTA: ... 15, 20 years from now?
BROWN: No. No, especially given that our kids are using these over the course of a lifetime.
GUPTA: That's right. And there have been no studies on kids.
BROWN: On kids and how it affects kids. Sanjay Gupta, great information. Thank you.
GUPTA: Something to think about. Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: If you want to see that list again, by all means go to CNN.com/Campbell right now. We've got it there for you.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starting in just a few moments. First, the top quotes of 2009. We've got details in tonight's "Download."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" is just minutes away. First, though, Mike Galanos with the best quotes of the year -- Mike.
MIKE GALANOS, HLN PRIME NEWS: Campbell, let's get right to it. And we start with two words that became one of 2009's top quotes. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The reforms - the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegal.
REP. JOE WILSON (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: You lie.
OBAMA: That's not true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALANOS: There it is. That's number four, Campbell, on a Yale University list.
Number one, "Keep your government hands off my health care." That from a health care town hall. So, there you go.
Number seven, Falcon Heene. "You guys said we did it for the show."
BROWN: Yes.
GALANOS: It happened right here on this network. There's just a few of them
BROWN: Indeed, very memorable. Mike Galanos.
GALANOS: Yes.
BROWN: Mike, thanks. Appreciate it.
GALANOS: OK. See you, Campbell.
BROWN: That's it for us. Thanks for joining us.
"LARRY KING LIVE" right now.
