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JOY BEHAR SHOW
Brittany Murphy Dies; Monica Lewinsky`s New Book; Gosselin Divorce Final
Aired December 21, 2009 - 21:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, investigators are searching for clues in the tragic death of Brittany Murphy, the young star of movies like "Clueless" and "8 Mile". What will they find? We`ll discuss.
Then, just when you thought it was safe to go to the dry cleaners, Monica Lewinsky pops up. In an upcoming book, she claims Bill Clinton lied to the grand jury; fact or fiction or just looking for fame? We`ll try to find out.
And the coworkers of the "Nanny Diaries" will join me to discuss the daily dramas of nannyhood and why the husbands sometimes like the nannies more than the kids do.
All this and more starting now.
With standout roles in movies like "Clueless", "Girl Interrupted", and "8 Mile", Brittany Murphy`s star was still rising, now she`s gone at the tender age of 32, from what coroners are saying appears to be natural causes. We`ll know the exact cause of death after the autopsy.
Here to shed some light on this very sad story are Gerald Posner, chief investigative reporter for the Daily Beast and the author of "Miami Babylon"; Roger Friedman, writer of the Showbiz 411 column for Hollywood -- for the "Hollywood Reporter"; and Carlos Diaz, a correspondent from "Extra". Welcome to the show.
Carlos, why don`t we start off with you? What is the latest on the story?
CARLOS DIAZ, CORRESPONDENT, "EXTRA": Well, you know, the latest, of course, is that the autopsy was performed today and it was an autopsy that her husband, Simon Monjack, reportedly did not want to take place. And that is something that has raised a lot of eyebrows out here in Hollywood.
Brittany Murphy`s husband, Simon Monjack, who she`s been married to for two years now has the nickname Conjack and a lot of people out here are kind of pointing fingers in his direction.
Jamie Pressly, who is a friend of Brittany Murphy`s has said that she did not talk to Brittany Murphy anymore after she married Simon Monjack. So the latest right now is a lot of people are looking in his direction.
ROGER FRIEDMAN, SHOWBIZ 411 COLUMNIST, "HOLLYWOOD REPORTER": I did a lot on this -- reporting on this Simon Monjack yesterday and today, in the "Hollywood Reporter". He`s definitely going to be the character that people are interested in talking about, in learning more about.
FRIEDMAN: Well, he is -- first of all, he`s a fabulous litigant. He`s racked up bills everywhere, unpaid bills. He`s been successfully sued by a British bank for about $500,000.
FRIEDMAN: Yes. His ex-wife from England, after he married Brittany last year, the ex-wife came from England, because she`d never been paid a very small settlement that she was supposed to get -- about $50,000 -- and she sued and successfully won her money in Los Angeles.
Everyone has sued him. He has a very bad reputation in Hollywood. People are saying today, oh, the autopsy says there`s no foul play. We know there`s no foul play. No one killed her, but the question is, what was going on in that house and in that relationship?
Just a couple of weeks ago, they were in Puerto Rico. She went to do a movie and she was fired from the movie while she was there.
BEHAR: Yes, I read that.
FRIEDMAN: Which is very unusual. And apparently, people on the set and another producer who was working with her told me that the husband had come down to the set, had caused a lot of problems on the set, was definitely inebriated, and she defended him. And these are low-budget movies, so the producer fired her and said, "I can`t deal with this." They came back to Los Angeles, and when they arrived, they had a call -- the airline had to call an ambulance, because this Simon Monjack had passed out on the plane.
So there`s some kind of stuff going on in this relationship that`s not kosher...
BEHAR: So there`s something that we don`t know.
FRIEDMAN: ... and may have led to this situation that happened this weekend.
BEHAR: But Gerald, there were no -- there were only prescription drugs found at the scene, in her house. She didn`t have -- there were no illegal drugs found. Is that a factor?
GERALD POSNER, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, DAILY BEAST: Right.
BEHAR: How do you respond to what Roger just said?
POSNER: Well, no, I think Roger`s right in the sense, Joy, that even if it comes out that she died of an unusual genetic effect, at 32, she passed away of a heart attack, although I do think there`s going to be more here in a few weeks when we get the toxicological report back. But let`s assume that it`s just natural causes. There`s no question that Simon Monjack has not been good for her career.
He has cut off people that were close to her, who were good influences on her. She has dropped from a normal-sized woman to what, you know, you call a lollipop syndrome, that very thin body with a large head that looks either anorexic or that she`s bulimic.
There are certainly (ph) people that tell me when you talk to them, as Roger said, that she seems spaced out at times. So this isn`t a relationship in which her career has flourished, in which she has comes back and everyone says, you know, "Brittany was at her very best."
She ends up dying at the age of 32, after being in a relationship since 2007, married to a man who two months before he married her, had been detained by INS on immigration charges. Some people had wondered whether in fact he had married her to be able to stay in the United States.
So it`s not a good situation for her. And then he turns up at Cedars-Sinai saying don`t do the autopsy. That doesn`t sound kosher to anyone.
BEHAR: The mother says that diabetes may be a factor. Carlos, what do you know about that?
DIAZ: Yes, I mean, everyone`s talking about the drugs that she`s allegedly been doing. The thing is, Brittany has always said that she never -- had never even seen cocaine and that she had a heart condition, and that`s the reason why she couldn`t do drugs; diabetes also something from her mother, whom she had a very close relationship with.
But the bottom line is, everyone today is really pointing at Simon Monjack, her husband, and the fact that not only did she have this appearance, you know, where she was so thin that some publications wouldn`t publish pictures of her on the Red Carpet recently, because she looked so thin. But also, there are reports from the neighbors who said that when the paramedics showed up, that Simon Monjack was outside of the house, looking disoriented, with no shoes on, with pajama bottoms, not altogether there.
BEHAR: A neighbor saw rescue workers trying to save Murphy. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLARE STAPLES, BRITTANY MURPHY`S NEIGHBOR: I saw five firemen bring her down on a gurney and they were trying to resuscitate her all the way down to the fire truck. And then they had her by the fire truck and they were obviously trying to put tubes down her throat, resuscitate her. And I think she was fairly, obviously, dead at that time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of state was her husband in?
STAPLES: What does he do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of state was he in?
STAPLES: He was in his pajama bottoms, without any shoes on, and he was just walking around completely dazed and in shock.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Where`s the husband now, Roger?
FRIEDMAN: I guess he`s in the house, waiting to find out what`s going to happen. But what`s interesting is, we`ve been through this a few times now with Anna Nicole Smith, with Michael Jackson...
BEHAR: Well, they`re not all the same, Roger.
FRIEDMAN: They are the same in the sense that people are being -- there`s a much more critical eye towards looking to who are the people around these stars when something bad happens to them. And it doesn`t happen to them by accident.
This girl probably did not have a heart attack, you know, just because she has some kind of problem.
BEHAR: Why would the coroner say it`s natural causes? How do they know that? They don`t know that?
FRIEDMAN: They just mean it wasn`t homicide. They just mean, no one bludgeoned her or shot her. That`s all they mean by that.
But you know these Web sites attach these terms to get headlines.
BEHAR: They use that term when a guy dies at 90 in the obituaries in the "New York Times".
FRIED: Natural causes right. But natural cause is like a blanket statement.
BEHAR: Is it true that the husband...
POSNER: You know, Joy...
BEHAR: Go ahead.
POSNER: I was going to say, what Roger just said is right. Elvis Presley`s death certificate says that he died of cardiac arrest, the same thing that they`re saying here for Brittany. But there were ten drugs inside of Elvis Presley that could have killed an elephant.
It just means that her heart stopped. Now we have to find out what made her heart stopped. And I think that the fact that the husband was wandering around in his pajamas and seemed disoriented, that doesn`t seem that odd to me under the circumstances.
BEHAR: No, exactly. Under the circumstances, I agree with that.
POSNER: You`re 32-year-old wife is -- right. You might be disoriented and totally out of it.
BEHAR: I agree with that.
FRIEDMAN: But they had a very bad experience in Puerto Rico, it was only ten days ago, and I think they came back to a bad situation.
He was sick, obviously, there was something wrong with him if the airline was calling 911 when they landed. That was December 8th.
BEHAR: The thing to me that sticks out, that`s a little strange, is that he doesn`t want them to have an autopsy. Why would someone block an autopsy? Who was he trying to preserve?
FRIEDMAN: He is Jewish and it`s against Jewish law, technically. But she is not.
BEHAR: She`s not. Her name is Murphy.
FRIEDMAN: That`s the only excuse I can think of.
BEHAR: That doesn`t make sense to me.
FRIEDMAN: Otherwise, it seems like he`s trying to cover stuff up. And really, what the problem is, is that he has a very bad reputation, a bad legal reputation, a laundry list of problems in Hollywood. It`s not like he`s some great guy who you`re suddenly saying, this is a terrible thing that`s happened to him. He`s not Donny Osmond, you know what I mean?
BEHAR: Yes. The girl was under a lot of pressure. Go ahead. Go ahead.
DIAZ: One thing also to consider, we talk about, there`s only prescription drugs found in the home of Brittany Murphy, but keep in mind there were only prescription drugs found next to Heath Ledger. Just because you have prescription drugs and not illegal drugs next to this person doesn`t mean that that`s not the cause of death.
BEHAR: There seems to be a lot of this prescription drugs business going around.
FRIEDMAN: I think prescription drugs more than the illegal substances, that we knew about in the `70s -- prescription drugs have become the thing to abuse.
BEHAR: They can`t be controlled, really. Even Ambien, if you buy it every month and you hoard it, you have enough pills to kill yourself eventually.
POSNER: But you know Joy, what you`re saying is very interesting because one of the things we now know is that she uses -- all the stars do -- an alias when she would check in for travel or hotels or whatever else. That would be how she would go around.
And often the stars, as we found out with Michael Jackson, get prescription drugs multiple times, prescribed to themselves in their real name and then to an alias and then somebody who works for security and somebody who works inside the house. So it is the raging problem at the moment.
When I hear that only prescription drugs were found inside the house, no illegal drugs, it doesn`t necessarily tell me that there can`t be a drug-related toxicology report that comes back, but we`re just not going to know for four to six weeks.
BEHAR: I see. I see. Go ahead.
DIAZ: And the one thing to consider too is that no one that I`ve spoken to in Hollywood was surprised. I mean, obviously, when someone dies, there`s a shock, but it wasn`t a situation where people were like, I can`t believe Brittany Murphy died, she`s been so squeaky clean.
There have been a lot of rumors floating around Hollywood about her condition in the last few years, the fact that her star never rose to the level of an Angelina Jolie or other co-stars that she was with. And so when the news came down on Sunday that she was dead...
BEHAR: Why should she?
FRIEDMAN: I don`t think she would have been Angelina Jolie, Carlos, but she might have been Meg Ryan. She was very cute, she was a lot of fun, she made "Little Black Book". There were a couple of really good movies in there. She was really sort of on the road to having a real career as a movie star.
BEHAR: It sounds like she was under a lot of pressure getting so thing. She went from being a cute brunette to a very skinny blond, the usual Hollywood type.
FRIEDMAN: What`s kind of interesting, she worked every year up to 2006, and then the year she married this guy, she didn`t work for a year. Her whole career changed at that point.
BEHAR: It`s a very -- it`s a terrible story. And thanks, everyone.
Up next, the world`s most famous intern is back.
BEHAR: There was a lot of news over the weekend, but maybe none as shocking as the tragic death of Brittany Murphy.
So let`s start there with my panel. Andy Cohen, host of Bravo`s "Watch What Happens: Live"; Paula Froehlich, former editor of the "New York Post`s" Page 6 my nemesis; and Vic Henley, comedian. Ok.
Let`s start with this one story and just give me your take on the Brittany Murphy, Paula.
PAULA FROEHLICH, FORMER EDITOR, "NEW YORK POST": I actually don`t think it`s that shocking.
FROEHLICH: Because you know what, if you lead a certain lifestyle, things are going to happen. It`s kind of like...
BEHAR: Well, what lifestyle?
FROEHLICH: I think that, clearly, there was something going on. She was very thin, she had had issues with drugs in the past. And a 32-year- old just doesn`t keel over unless they`re like 7 feet tall with an enlarged heart.
BEHAR: These are allegations that you`re stating here. These are not facts. They only found prescription drugs in her house.
FROEHLICH: $5 says drugs in her system.
ANDY COHEN, HOST, BRAVO: She was also fired from her last two movies...
BEHAR: They`re saying the husband...
FROEHLICH: Erratic behavior.
BEHAR: And he was acting a little wacky also. But you can`t jump to conclusions about this. The main thing is that the girl is 32 years old and she died.
FROEHLICH: By the way, Joy, I`m not jumping to conclusions considering I did entertainment news for ten years. You hear a lot and you see a lot. You lead a certain lifestyle, things are going to happen.
And you know what, I don`t think it`s as shocking as saying the most liberal mullah in Iran just died. I think that`s more interesting than a 32-year-old who led a questionable lifestyle dying of her questionable lifestyle.
BEHAR: Well, it`s more interesting, or more obvious? Or what?
FROEHLICH: More interesting. More tragic that the mullah died.
BEHAR: Because he was fighting for freedom. I agree with that.
Let`s just switch gears now, because the intern has returned.
In an upcoming book, Monica Lewinsky is quoted as saying she thinks President Clinton lied to a grand jury about their affair. Now, the book isn`t out yet, so we don`t really have specifics, but Clinton, a liar, aren`t you guys shocked by this claim? First of all, how does she know what happened in the grand jury? Aren`t those closed?
FROEHLICH: Isn`t it, once a liar, always a liar? Wasn`t he impeached for perjury, which is lying?
COHEN: He started the whole thing by lying in the very beginning. He said that he didn`t have sex with her at the very beginning.
BEHAR: Who wouldn`t lie for a sex scandal? Come on.
VIC HENLEY, COMEDIAN: How is this relevant? The earth evolves around the sun, it`s a round planet, mammals breathe oxygen, Clinton`s a liar. She`s got a big head. He`s from the south.
She`s got a huge head. Katie Kennedy used to call her the big head, then hang up the phone on her. That`s how big her head is.
BEHAR: I don`t know she had such a big head. She didn`t have that big a head.
HENLEY: No, she`s not. Who is, really?
COHEN: All famous people have big heads, though?
FROEHLICH: No they don`t.
BEHAR: No, they don`t.
COHEN: It`s true.
FROEHLICH: You know, Joy, they don`t start off big, they just get inflated.
BEHAR: They get inflated.
She`s been under the radar for a wile. Is that because she wants to be, or because no one`s interested in here?
FROEHLICH: No, she wants to be. She wanted a life. She was 21 years old, she made a mistake that most people do in private. Unfortunately it was with the president of the United States and she tried to go have a life. She got a degree from the London School of Economics.
BEHAR: In what? Economics.
HENLEY: Right in basket weaving.
FROEHLICH: I don`t think you can get that degree.
HENLEY: If this happened now do you think she would...
FROEHLICH: That`s not exactly getting a degree of (INAUDIBLE)
HENLEY: If this happened now, could she turn it into her own show? Do you think she`s the kind of person that...
FROEHLICH: I don`t think she wants it. She wants to lead a nice, quiet life. She wants to get married and get a job. Unfortunately, she`s unemployed.
BEHAR: Why this book now? She writes that Clinton was a liar. It`s not big news. George W. Bush didn`t read. Not big news. Why write a book about it.
FROEHLICH: It`s different coming out and saying me, me, me as opposed to somebody calling up and saying, I`m writing this historical book. Is this true?
HENLEY: Then what do you have to say?
COHEN: I have to give it up to her also. She hasn`t been on "Dancing with the Stars". There are a thousand things that she could have done with her name and made money and she has whatever degree she got. She hasn`t -- I respect her. I mean, there are 1 million things that she could be doing...
BEHAR: I feel sorry for her but she was a kid and she got bamboozled into the whole thing.
FROEHLICH: Who doesn`t do crazy things as a kid? And tell me, if you had been 21 in the White House, and Bill Clinton came on to you and you were single, what would you have done?
BEHAR: I wouldn`t have been under that desk, I tell you.
FROEHLICH: well, not under the desk, but you might have been over the table.
BEHAR: I wouldn`t have been over the table either. No, it`s not. I had a whole different personality from Monica Lewinsky.
You have youthful indiscretions, you cut your hair crazy, don`t have oral sex with the president. Sorry.
FROEHLICH: I don`t know. It`s 2009 now. Almost 2010 and people are a little different these days.
BEHAR: Really? How much different can they be really from when I was 21 years old that they now are under a desk? All this girls...
FROEHLICH: When you were 21 years old, things were a little different.
BEHAR: Things were a lot different.
It also asserts that this Susan McDougal, she went to jail for not turning on Clinton. They`re saying she had an affair with him.
HENLEY: That`s how good he is.
HENLEY: I`ll take a bullet for this man. I`ll go to prison. He must be amazing in the sack.
FROEHLICH: Oh, God, please.
FROEHLICH: Talking about the world`s biggest misogynist.
HENLEY: She`s in jail. I`m just saying with, how good -- he`s still got some sort of hypnotic...
FROEHLICH: He`s like a succubus.
BEHAR: A what?
FROEHLICH: He`s like a succubus.
FROEHLICH: It`s like with the reverse Midas touch; everything he touches doesn`t turn to gold, it turns to -- you know.
BEHAR: He was a decent president though. He`s better than...
FROEHLICH: And we`ll vote for him again if he was running for president. I wouldn`t sit at a table with him.
BEHAR: But you know, just once a cheater, always a cheater. We keep hearing about these guys cheating on -- it`s all these famous guys. You two, what have you been doing lately? Andy and Vic?
COHEN: I`m single.
HENLEY: I`m married.
BEHAR: You`re married now.
HENLEY: I don`t like porn or skanks.
COHEN: You`re from Alabama.
HENLEY: I know. And when the gate ran up, I got out.
BEHAR: Ok everybody. Hold on. We`ll have a lot more when we come back.
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel.
A growing conspiracy theory in Italy claims last week`s attack on the fabulous Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi -- he`s not my type -- was staged in order to improve his poll numbers, which it did. Interesting. I mean, what do you think? Do you think it was staged?
COHEN: I don`t. I think that -- the bruises look pretty real to me, but I just love it that -- so he was busted for an orgy a couple weeks ago, right? I mean...
BEHAR: Yes, yes. He`s a bad guy.
COHEN: I love it that that`s what`s happening in Italian politics. We`re still carrying on about Clinton`s oral sex from ten years ago. This guy has an orgy, throws a rock in his face, or someone else does, it`s incredible.
BEHAR: If he`s going to stage that, wouldn`t it have been better to do something heroic like drag a puppy out of the (inaudible). Why would you have someone hit you in the face? That`s stupid.
COHEN: And did Bush`s approval ratings go up after the guy hurled the shoe at him? No.
BEHAR: I think it was too late for him. It was no way to help him.
And you know, the other story that`s hot right now is that Kate Gosselin, one of our favorites, her divorce is final, finally. Are we going to be Gosselin free now for a while in 2010?
FROEHLICH: Not if they can help it.
BEHAR: Vic, what do you think?
HENLEY: TLC, The Learning Circus, is going to add her, all the kids, all the little people shows -- their new little people show called, "Little Chocolatiers", and just call the whole thing Keebler. There will be thousands of tiny bodies running around throwing chocolate in the air. They`re going to be watching this for another year and a half at least.
COHEN: The Christmas gift of all time is that Jon Gosselin has been muzzled from making media appearances in this court room. It happened last week...
BEHAR: It`s because of his contract with TLC.
COHEN: Exactly. He violated his contract which is so great. But I think that the asymmetrical mullet will be making a big return next year in Kate Gosselin. I think she`s not -- we`re not done with her.
BEHAR: She might get a talk show or something.
COHEN: I don`t think that`s her vehicle. I think people want...
BEHAR: That`s not her forte.
COHEN: No, I don`t. I think her forte is --
FROEHLICH: The Kate Gosselin salon.
COHEN: People want to see her being a mom, if they want to see her at all.
BEHAR: Was she a great -- was she good mom?
FROEHLICH: Yes, but by the way -- no. I`ve been watching that for four years. Actually, she was a semi-decent mom. But for four years, she was the most unsympathetic person in the world. Mean as a...
BEHAR: To whom though?
FROEHLICH: To Jon and the staff, and it was the craziest thing. And then Jon, I`ve never seen a wasted opportunity like this. She comes out, everyone`s like, oh, my gosh, he finally left her. And then he hires the axis of idiots, Mark Heller, like Christian (INAUDIBLE) and like crazy people that go hang out and talk but it ruins everything.
HENLEY: Karl Rove, Dick Cheney.
I`m sorry, that was different.
FROEHLICH: I named my dog after Karl Rove.
HENLEY: Really? Do you beat him regularly?
FROEHLICH: He`s German, he likes it.
BEHAR: Do you think it helped Jay Leno last night because he had her on? Did the ratings go up because of her?
FROEHLICH: I don`t think anything can help Jay Leno except for Santa.
BEHAR: Really? That`s kind of sad to say.
FROEHLICH: I believe in Santa.
BEHAR: I know but I don`t think that`s true about Jay Leno. I think he can pull it out.
FROEHLICH: Have you seen his show?
BEHAR: A couple times. I`m a big fan and a big supporter and a friend of Jay Leno. And I think he`s a very talented guy. He has the best monologues of anybody.
FROEHLICH: You don`t watch every night?
COHEN: He does but...
BEHAR: It`s at 10:00. I`m just getting off of this.
COHEN: Listen, "The Ed Sullivan Show" years and years ago was the destination. And why can`t every night at 10:00 he make that the spot for America to go to?
BEHAR: And just say, we have a really big show? How`s he supposed to do that?
Anyway, thank you very much. I`ll talk Tiger Woods with Judge Jeanine Pirro when we come back. Oh, there`s no end to that story.
BEHAR: I`ve never been arrested, but if I were, I`d want a good lawyer on my side, like my next guest. She was a former district attorney and is currently the host of the "Judge Jeanine Pirro Show." It`s a pleasure to have you here, judge.
JEANINE PIRRO, JUDGE: It`s a pleasure to be here.
BEHAR: Am I supposed to call you, your honor, or something?
PIRRO: They call me lots of things, but you can call me Jeanine, that would be fine.
BEHAR: I`m going to call you Jeanine. So I want to take you on this trip about this missing mom in Utah, okay. First of all, the husband is what`s suspicious in this case right now. Am I right?
PIRRO: Now, there`s a shock, huh?
BEHAR: The husband said, this is so crazy. The husband says the night of the murder -- of the missing woman, she`s missing, not -- yeah. He was out, with the kids, at 12:30 a.m., camping. Now, what type of crazy alibi is that?
PIRRO: You wonder now why he`s a person of interest. He said he left the house at 12:35 in the morning to go camping with his two kids in a place that he finally you know identified where the weather was between 10 and 25 degrees.
PIRRO: That`s below zero, and they slept in the van. Are you kidding?
BEHAR: But I mean - maybe it has to be somewhat true, because why would he make up such a stupid alibi?
PIRRO: Because he doesn`t have any other alibi to make up. If know if you`re camping, you`re alone, no one necessarily sees you. It`s the perfect alibi. I`m sure he hasn`t thought through it. But you know, with all due respect -
BEHAR: But wait a minute, Jeanine, how could it be a perfect alibi when you take two young children out in the middle of the night and it`s freezing out. Why would anybody believe you did that? And why would they believe that the wife allowed?
PIRRO: Well because, first of all, he`s not a mother, and he doesn`t think the way we think. But I think he has gone to these camp site, he knows it`s isolated, and he knows there are apparently fewer than 20 people who visit that place in the winter every year. He knows it`s safe for him. He doesn`t have any other excuse. Who knows what happened, Joy, but that`s why he`s now teed up to be a person of interest and may be more than that depending upon the evidence.
BEHAR: What does a person of interest really mean? I mean, we don`t have enough on you yet, but we`re looking at you.
PIRRO: We`re looking at you, yes. It basically is not yet a point at being a suspect, where if you`re a suspect, they have to start giving you rights, they can`t question you without a lawyer, without any Miranda rights. A person of interest can be anyone. It can be someone who has got substantial information. But the reason I understand he`s a person of interest is because he`s not going -- he`s not fully answering questions.
BEHAR: Why not?
PIRRO: Like, who were her best friends? Who would he confide in? Of course I`m not going to say who it is, because I don`t them to find out what she told them. Here`s a couple who had financial problems --
BEHAR: But they`ll find it out anyway, won`t they?
PIRRO: Of course they`ll find out, but he slows them down. Who knows what he`s doing. Also, they were in marriage counseling. They had marital problems, they had financial problems, I hear he was in trouble at his job if he didn`t lose his job totally. I mean it`s a mess.
BEHAR: It might be a mess but that doesn`t mean he did anything bad, wrong. The main thing I`m confused about is this alibi. But he`s refusing to speak to the police. Can`t the police force him to speak?
BEHAR: There`s no way they can do that?
PIRRO: No. The police cannot force you to speak.
BEHAR: So if you`re a person of interest, they can`t say you must sit in that chair like in Law and Order. Don`t they do that?
PIRRO: No. When I was a D.A., there were lots of people I wanted them to speak to me about a crime. Not because I was interested in prosecuting them, but I needed information. They could clam up, lawyer up, and that`s the end of it. This guy knows what he`s doing. I mean he will not discuss anything further with the police. And at the end of the day, the fact that he`s not being more forth coming and not more open with the Police. Where`s the mother of his little children. Wouldn`t you want to know that?
PIRRO: What`s that tell you?
BEHAR: Yes. Maybe she just snapped and left, is that possible?
PIRRO: You think?
BEHAR: It could be.
PIRRO: There`s no sense in it Joy.
BEHAR: Maybe she`s just missing at this point. There`s no body.
PIRRO: But she was going to work the next morning. She really was scheduled for - here`s the key. She had a diary, some kind of notebook, not a diary, at work that the police have gotten. That will give us some sense of maybe marriage counseling. Maybe problems --
BEHAR: They also found some kind of a wet spot -- not the good kind - - being dried in the house by fans. What is that about? What is that wet spot about?
PIRRO: Well, what the police are obviously looking at, it seems to me, is whether or not it was cleaned up to make sure that there was no evidence, no DNA, no blood, no whatever cleaned up and then we`re going to dry it up.
BEHAR: Oh they can find -- but can`t day do something and find out what that was.
PIRRO: But he`s not that smart based on what we know right now. The fact that he`s using a campground where it`s below freezing to take two little kids under the age of 8. Now that he`s cleaning up, he doesn`t realize there`s all kind of luminescence and tests we can conduct to identify what was there before the fans and the suds.
BEHAR: Okay, let me ask you about Brittany Murphy, this kid, a 32- year-old girl, she died on Sunday morning, just like that. And the coroner was saying that he thinks that it was natural causes. What do you -- what`s your take on that? What`s your gut?
PIRRO: Well my gut is I don`t know any 32-year-old who dies of natural causes. And --
BEHAR: She could have had a large heart.
PIRRO: Did he have time to get the medical records? And two, you`ve got those medical records. And the mother when she called said my daughter is suffering from diabetes. Okay, was it was terminal, how bad was it? You know, did she have parts of her body removed as a result of that? What`s going on here? But the coroner has to sign accident, suicide, homicide, undetermined. And unless and until he -- or she -- gets to identify through toxicology reports what happened, then you can`t say it`s natural.
BEHAR: But the husband doesn`t want them to do an autopsy.
PIRRO: Now isn`t that interesting?
BEHAR: One of my guests before pointed out that he`s of the Jewish faith and I guess it`s against their faith to have an autopsy.
PIRRO: Well yes, but I don`t know that Brittany was.
BEHAR: She wasn`t.
PIRRO: She wasn`t. And so, when I was D.A., people would say to me, we don`t want this child to have an autopsy because of our faith. And you might respect that. But at the end of the day, when you`ve got a 32-year- old wife who dies -- the first question out of his mouth should be, oh, my god, how did my wife died, as opposed to, I don`t want autopsy, I don`t want to know how she died.
BEHAR: Yes, well, just like the last case, Susan Powell, the men are very suspicious in these cases, aren`t they?
PIRRO: That could be because it`s you and me talking. But I think in both cases, to be honest with you Joy, there are a lot of questions.
BEHAR: But if the tox report comes back and it says it`s positive for an illegal substance, could they then charge the husband? What happens?
PIRRO: What we have here is a woman who may have overdosed. We`ve got a woman who was taken off the last set of a movie. Remember, the husband is taken off an airplane and the EMT people are taking care of him.
PIRRO: Did they have -- were there drugs involved? I mean certainly --
BEHAR: Is this going to be another one of these Anna Nicole stories where it just goes on and on and on like the big saga?
PIRRO: I think she had additional problems. We know she was extremely thin. Maybe anorexia, bulimia was involved.
BEHAR: Well it could be but she might have just tried to fit into the Hollywood picture. Let me move on to Tiger Woods. Have you heard he`s having some marital difficulties?
BEHAR: I mean it`s unbelievable.
PIRRO: I`ve been in Chicago, taping my show. Is that true?
BEHAR: Really you would have to be under a rock in Nome. So the mother was very hurt. That`s one of the things we learned recently, that the mother -- his mother, Tiger. But you know according to what I`ve read, Tiger`s father, allegedly, was a womanizer also. So it`s kind of sad, isn`t it, that -- is it genetic or something?
BEHAR: Like you know the Kennedys, the old man, he was screwing around like crazy. Joseph P. Kennedy, it`s genetic.
PIRRO: You`re funny. The truth is that all the evidence and people involved at that time state that Tiger`s father was having affairs and Tiger was very affected by it, as a young man, as a child.
BEHAR: We don`t know that.
PIRRO: But that`s what a girl who dated him in high school said.
BEHAR: Oh. Oh, like she doesn`t want attention and getting into the press.
PIRRO: Why not. Maybe she hired Gloria. You never know. I mean you know she wants some money too. But at the end of the day, also there, you think that a man would understand --
BEHAR: He would be more sensitive to his wife watching his mother.
BEHAR: But that`s why I`m saying, it`s kind of compulsive behavior.
PIRRO: No, with it isn`t. Men are pigs! I don`t think its compulsive behavior. It`s such an excuse, like they have no control over themselves, yes, they do. They can control what they want to do sexually. The fact that they`ve got a wife and children. And not to mention the fact that this guy has an enormous empire built upon his squeaky clean image that he brought down. I mean, will he come back? He may come back. You and I both know that. And we`ll probably cheer him on and say come on back. But it all depends upon Elin. What is she going to do? Is she going to drag him through --
BEHAR: Well she left, today, supposedly.
PIRRO: She left today and he`s on the "privacy" boat.
BEHAR: She might be leaving; I`m not sure at this point. I love how you can say, men are pigs, and nobody cares. You know what I mean, men are pigs. You know if you ever said that about an ethnic group, they would sue you.
PIRRO: Probably by all the men in American except, I think it was the "Time" magazine that had a man with a pig face on the cover several years ago. I saved it so I would have a defense you know when they came at me.
BEHAR: What do you think about men cheating as a rule? It seems that they can`t stop. I was talking today on my other show about this. Women see this situation as, why would he do such a thing? He has a beautiful wife and family. Why would he do that? And men see it like, hey, we`re dogs, it`s primal. We like to spread our seed, whatever, it`s biological, imperative. What do you think it is?
PIRRO: Right. I think a lot of it is --
BEHAR: What is the judge`s point of view?
PIRRO: Well you know, the judge`s point of view is the same as any other woman`s point of view. What we`ve got is a guy who had enormous opportunities. He was very wealthy. You have women throwing themselves at him all the time. And a guy who`s away from home, on tour. A woman at home with children. And I look at that card where he`s with the dog and they`re with the kids and she looked exhausted, to be honest with you. I mean, who knows what goes on in a man`s head.
BEHAR: Who looked exhausted?
PIRRO: The wife, Elin did.
BEHAR: After the scandal. But she only has the two kids.
PIRRO: I know but -
BEHAR: Kate Gosselin isn`t exhausted. Elin is not exhausted with two children.
PIRRO: Didn`t Kate have six in one pregnancy? I mean that makes it a little easier.
BEHAR: We were talking before in the last segment about Monica Lewinsky and how a 21-year-old girl, Paul Froehlich said, you know, if the President is asking you to service him, I`ll say it like that, what 21- year-old girl is going to refuse that? Well, you`re looking at one -- me!
PIRRO: I was just going to say --
BEHAR: Right and the same with all of these photons that are hanging out with Tiger. I wouldn`t be one of those, would you?
PIRRO: No of course not. But it`s more than that. They`re not just photons, I mean they`re not just women who would sleep with anybody.
PIRRO: But they`re into the fame, they`ve saved pictures, allegedly, they`ve saved voice mails, text messages. They knew they were going to parlay this. They`re not just women sleeping with a famous guy, they`re women looking for a payoff at the end of the day.
BEHAR: Okay Jeanine, thank you, always wonderful to talk to you. When we come back, we`ll find out what goes on behind the scenes in the nurseries of the rich and famous. My guess is diaper changing, what I know, stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nanny in the morning, I need you to stop at Tiffany`s and pick up Mr. X`s watch. Then I need you to Xerox some recommendation letters for Grace, collegiate application. Also, I was thinking, we should introduce French food into his diet. It might enhance his study of the language. So tomorrow night, why don`t you make him (inaudible) for dinner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was from the hit movie "The Nanny Diaries." it began as a humble piece of literature dishing on wealth and fame, and in the process, selling over 2 million copies. Well today, nanny is back and here with me to discuss their new book "Nanny Returns" our co-authors Emma McLaughlin and Nicola Kraus.
Welcome to the show, ladies. So "The Nanny Diaries" and "The Nanny Return" is a look at the wealthy and dysfunctional world of the New York City`s upper east side, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Absolutely.
NICOLA KRAUS, AUTHOR, NANNY RETURNS: A small community that reached into the upper America and took their money last year. So it may seem like they are isolated but they really impact us all.
BEHAR: But I mean this type of dysfunction that you`re talking about could be in any wealthy neighborhood, I think?
EMMA MCLAUGHLIN, AUTHOR, NANNY RETURNS: Absolutely.
BEHAR: And there`s people who don`t have a lot of money can`t afford a nanny. Right?
MCLAUGHLIN: Right. Absolutely. What we heard -- we were shocked to hear that the villain in "The Nanny Diaries" is Mrs. X, a very wealthy socialite that is horrible to her nanny and to her child. And we were shocked to hear how many people got in touch with us from small town America to China to say, I know that woman. She`s my neighbor, my sister- in-law.
BEHAR: The mean one.
MCLAUGHLIN: The mean one.
BEHAR: You both were nannies, right?
MCLAUGHLIN: We were.
KRAUS: We were.
BEHAR: So what was your experience like? Did you experience the Mrs. X.?
KRAUS: It was awful, but it wasn`t funny. The funny was where the creative work came into it. But we worked in not in only so many homes, but because in New York City you don`t have a backyard, there`s no play dates. They have the play dates systems; you`re in five different homes a week with your charge. So we were seeing the same behavior and the mistreatment of the nannies and neglect of the children over and over again.
BEHAR: Are they neglectful, these parents, or the mothers, I guess you`re talking about, or both?
MCLAUGHLIN: The fathers we worked for most often in those neighborhoods, we never met.
BEHAR: Oh because they were working.
MCLAUGHLIN: Someone has to pay for the $8,000 drapes. And the mothers, yes, it didn`t seem a value in the community to really have a relationship with your child.
BEHAR: I see so they were not abusive, just sort of neglectful.
MCLAUGHLIN: They checked out.
BEHAR: They checked out.
BEHAR: how respectful are the kids, that in your experience, towards the nannies?
KRAUS: Well, it depends because there`s no one really giving any boundaries. So they`re not really being taught how to show appreciation or to understand what it is when someone`s doing something for them.
BEHAR: Oh that`s terrible. So the kids can talk back to the nannies and there`s no recourse?
BEHAR: Oh I don`t like that at all.
KRAUS: And it makes for lovely teenagers, which is what we talk about in the second book.
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes and then eventually lovely adults who are running things like health care, and then you understand where that comes from. There`s a lack of empathy and attachment.
BEHAR: That`s very bad.
BEHAR: That`s very bad.
MCLAUGHLIN: For all of us.
BEHAR: I mean what happens when the kids like the nanny better than the mother? What would happen there? A lot of these mothers, I notice they get jealous of the nanny, right?
KRAUS: They do. If the mother just sort of checks out and leaves the nanny in charge for 12 to 18 years, at least the child has some consistent form of affection and discipline.
BEHAR: Does that happen? Where the child is left for 18 years with a nanny?
KRAUS: It used to.
BEHAR: At that point the kid is sleeping with the nanny.
KRAUS: At least they have someone. But if the mother keeps hiring and firing for sport, that kid will become psychotic.
BEHAR: Well not exactly.
KRAUS: Well if they can never form attachments and everyone get torn away from them.
BEHAR: But Nicola, you`re supposed to form an attachment to the parent, not the nanny.
MCLAUGHLIN: That`s right.
KRAUS: But if the parents have left, if they`ve decided, this is not a job who interests them, there should at least be a surrogate in their place, if there`s nobody, the kid grows up in a vacuum.
BEHAR: So can the nanny discipline the kids? Or what happens if that happens?
MCLAUGHLIN: The nannies can discipline the kids. And we`re again talking about sort of a segment of the population. Unfortunately, in Manhattan, there`s so few child care agencies, perhaps because real estate is so expensive, but a lot of the middle class of Manhattan relies upon the nanny system as also. We work for some great mothers. But, yes, it can be --
BEHAR: So they`re not all bitches.
MCLAUGHLIN: No, no, not at all. We`re still in touch with -
BEHAR: Really. What is your take on the nanny cam? Because I have a story about a friend of mine, somebody I know, who was married, and getting a divorce because she was then -- she decided that her life with her husband wasn`t working for her. She was a lesbian. So she left the husband for this other woman. And they got very angry with each other, right? The other lesbian woman, the wife, and the husband were all not speaking to each other. But the one thing they did is they had a nanny cam in there and had a cam on the nanny in the house. And they noticed that the nanny was hitting the child -
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god.
BEHAR: In the nanny cam. So what happened was, the lesbian girlfriend and the woman and the husband all got together and beat up the nanny.
MCLAUGHLIN: You win.
BEHAR: That is a story.
MCLAUGHLIN: That is the best story we`ve ever heard.
BEHAR: Put it in the next book. That is a true story.
MCLAUGHLIN: And they bonded against the nanny like that.
BEHAR: And what recourse would the nanny have, because she was on tape hitting the kid.
KRAUS: Yes a lot of unacceptable behavior there, on all parties, wrong, on all parts.
MCLAUGHLIN: That`s technology gone astray.
BEHAR: but don`t you think you need a nanny cam after I told you that story? You don`t know what they`re doing to your children.
MCLAUGHLIN: If you talked about there was a lot of attention going on in that household across the board. So, I mean, in very dysfunctional situations it`s unfortunate that parents have to -
BEHAR: What are you going to do if the nanny is hitting the kid if the parents are dysfunctional? Has nothing to do with it.
MCLAUGHLIN: No, I`m not making excuses. I`m not making excuses but certainly kids pick up on and start acting out. And it makes everybody, you know, a nanny can become part of the family, everyone is acting out --
BEHAR: Well this is beyond acting out.
MCLAUGHLIN: No, you`re right.
BEHAR: No, no, don`t apologize for that nanny.
MCLAUGHLIN: No, I`m not.
BEHAR: No, you`re expecting your first child?
BEHAR: Are you getting a nanny?
KRAUS: Very possibly after I saw the Times piece yesterday saying that I was going to definitely get a nanny, her coming to me at 7:00 with my scrapbook and Eloise going, you promised me a nanny, I wanted a nanny, it sounds wonderful.
KRAUS: So I had to meet her first.
BEHAR: All right stay right with me. We have a lot more. A lot of stuff from other people. But first a quick reminder. Make sure you tune in this Wednesday night with my year end special, 2009, enough already, from Tiger Woods to Sarah Palin, we`ll review the biggest stories of the year according to moi. That`s this Wednesday night at 9:00 p.m. don`t miss it. Okay.
BEHAR: I`m back with the authors of Nanny Returns. Emma McLaughlin and Nicola Kraus. Why does it seem that so many men end up with the nannies. I mean Robin Williams at one point notoriously married his nanny.
MCLAUGHLIN: Oh and they`re still together.
BEHAR: Well no, not any more.
MCLAUGHLIN: Oh okay.
BEHAR: But they did have a long relationship.
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. All right.
BEHAR: I know the wife, she`s lovely. Robin Williams and then there was Jude Law had an affair with his nanny.
Yes he did.
BEHAR: John Gosselin`s babysitter, I guess a nanny. They used to call us babysitters and now they are nannies. Nanny sounds like a goat to me. She confessed that she had a fling with John Gosselin. What is the attraction?
MCLAUGHLIN: It`s lost on us.
KRAUS: To the nanny or two the father?
BEHAR: The father is attracted to the nanny.
KRAUS: Yes, I mean we don`t, even if a wealthy, powerful man has all of New York city or any affluent community to choose from, why the woman in sweat pants in the corner in apple sauce? We just don`t understand.
BEHAR: Well because I guess she`s nurturing. Nurturing the children - he needs the nurturing --
MCLAUGHLIN: I think she`s convenient.
KRAUS: It`s a sign of laziness I think.
MCLAUGHLIN: She`s big, go big. That`s what I think.
BEHAR: Or at least she`s with somebody else - leave the house.
MCLAUGHLIN: Or go in the back room. Exactly.
BEHAR: Okay we have some questions for you from some real life nannies, which we did some research. Here`s one. The family I work for makes sure that everything their kids eat is healthy and organic but then they tell me not to eat the organic stuff in the fridge because it`s so expensive. This hurts my feelings.
MCLAUGHLIN: Well understandably. I would have my feelings hurt. I don`t know if it`s worth leaving a job over but I understand the feeling like am I not a person, do I not eat?
MCLAUGHLIN: Especially if you spent a lot of time preparing that food.
BEHAR: Or she should she rise above it and say this woman is just self spank?
KRAUS: Well if she`s stuck here and she can`t eat anything else. If that`s all in the house to eat, and she`s not allowed to touch it, then she`s probably hungry, cranky and not doing a very good job.
BEHAR: Well she should quit or bring her own food?
KRAUS: I would say -
MCLAUGHLIN: Bring your own food.
BEHAR: Okay, I love the family I work for says this person, but one thing makes me uncomfortable, the dad likes to walk around the house in his underpants. How annoying and weird -
MCLAUGHLIN: I would definitely start asking around the sandbox if anyone is looking for new employment.
BEHAR: She wants to know should I say something?
KRAUS: If you would do, then you are a braver women than we ever were.
BEHAR: Yes, maybe she should bring him up charges on expeditionism.
KRAUS: Or find a new job.
BEHAR: Okay and work for a family with four kids and all four of them like to barge into my room without ever knocking. How do I protect my privacy when I`m living in someone else`s house. Lock the door.
MCLAUGHLIN: That you should talk to the parents about. I think that`s to say this is happening, it`s getting in the way of me being fully refreshed to take care of the children -
BEHAR: Shouldn`t this other woman say to the wife your husband`s walking around in his underpants and it`s turning me on. Okay how do I not feel like a slave. All I do is pick up after these kids all day long. When I was a kid it was my responsibility to pick up after myself. I feel like telling these kids to pick up their own toys. Any advice.
KRAUS: That should actually be built in part of the day. That at the end of the day before bed time bath time hour that all the toys get put away.
KRAUS: It`s an important thing for kids to learn -
MCLAUGHLIN: Make it a game - super nanny.
BEHAR: She`s really good. She`s only in her mid-30s, that girl.
MCLAUGHLIN: She`s smart.
BEHAR: Very advance wise woman - doesn`t she?
MCLAUGHLIN: We love her.
BEHAR: She`s an old soul.
BEHAR: Well good luck to you girls with this book.
BEHAR: And hopefully you`ll make another movie out of it and make a lot of money. Emma, Nicola, that`s their names. And thanks to all my guests for joining me tonight. Good night everybody.