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Father and Son Reunited in Brazil; Interview With Idaho Senator Mike Crapo
Aired December 24, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Making news right now on your national conversation: Is this the face of a happy little boy?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For Sean, he is going to feel like he is kidnapped.
VELSHI: Where will this son and his father pick up their relationship now that a reunion is under way?
Their name is synonymous with terror.
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Bin Laden.
VELSHI (on camera): Osama bin Laden.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Bin Laden.
VELSHI (voice-over): And yet we know little about the bin Laden children -- new details about their movements inside Iran.
Senators gather early to pass a health care reform bill.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our challenge then is to finish the job.
VELSHI: Now: how to pay for it. I will speak with one senator who says all the spending is the wrong message for Americans and the world.
This truly national conversation for Thursday, December 24, Christmas Eve, begins right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: And hello again, everybody. I'm Ali Velshi with the next generation of news. It is a conversation, not a speech. And it's your turn to get involved.
I want you to imagine this scene that you are looking at through the eyes of a 9-year-old child, the one in the yellow shirt that you can see there, especially a 9-year-old child who has been through so much in such a short time. This is what it looked like. This is this morning in the Rio de Janeiro. In the middle of that mass of media is a child, Sean Goldman, right there in the yellow, who is in a soccer jersey. He is being taken to the U.S. Consulate to be reunited with his birth father, the father he has not lived with in five years, the father who fought so hard to get him back.
Take a good look, if you can, at Sean's face as he clings to his stepfather through what must be a bewildering crush of people and into a life that he doesn't remember in a country he doesn't really know. Keep that look in mind as we consider the Herculean task ahead for this father and son.
It's a giant getting-to-know-you session with highs and lows that can't be conveyed by a joyous thumbs-up that his father gave as they boarded a charter plane for the United States, a plane we believe is still on the way to the United States from Brazil.
Clinical psychologist Judy Kuriansky is here with me.
Dr. Judy, for anyone who does not know, here is a "Reader's Digest" version of this case. All right, David Goldman sees off his son and his for a vacation in her home country in Brazil. They don't come back. Goldman's wife divorces him, marries a lawyer, then dies giving birth of Sean's half-sister.
Sean's stepfather, the lawyer, and his grandmother fight to keep Sean in Brazil. But Brazil's court, finally, after a lot of legal battles, ruled that they have to give him back.
Now, can this father and son, Sean and his father, can they reunite successful after this time apart?
DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It will not be easy at all. This young boy has been through so many losses, Ali, and so much abandonment.
And, as you said, he is coming to a father he doesn't know, being uprooted from a close family that he knows and loves, having lost his mother, having lost that biological father, and leaving behind a half- sister...
VELSHI: Yes.
KURIANSKY: ... which is very important in this picture, too.
VELSHI: She is a year-old.
KURIANSKY: Yes, but still he was young enough when she was born to be proud, as kids are, about...
VELSHI: It's his little sister, right. Yes.
KURIANSKY: Right. Exactly.
And on top of that, he has bonded with his father in Brazil, who has adored him.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Right, his stepfather. Yes. Yes.
KURIANSKY: Right, his stepfather who there for his -- being separated and uprooted from him. He was clinging to him. You saw him. And on top of that, he has cultural issues, because you pointed out...
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: it is not Kansas that he is moving from, but Brazil.
KURIANSKY: Right. And you saw him wearing a yellow shirt. That is very indicative. That is his way of identifying with his -- what he now perceives his home country. Five years, he has been there. That is a definitive time in a child's life.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: All right. So, you're not -- your area of expertise is not whether or not this is legally the right thing to do. Is it the right thing to do for the kid?
(CROSSTALK)
KURIANSKY: It is going to -- the kid had no choice in what happened. This is the problem.
VELSHI: Yes.
KURIANSKY: And that alone is another trauma when he grows up. He is 8 years old. By this time, kids have cognitive development. They are able to really understand some of the subtleties of the issues.
I think he is going to have a very difficult time adjusting. He is going to have deep-seated resentment towards everybody, towards the family even Brazil for letting him go.
VELSHI: Right. Right.
KURIANSKY: Towards his home -- towards the country of Brazil for letting him go.
Then he's going to have a little resentment towards his father, whom he has not seen, but now is going to live with, for taking him away from that family. He will be so conflicted. He's going to need a lot of child therapy. And so will his biological parents and the family in Brazil.
Now, I have been to Brazil a lot of times. They are not as open about therapy in a certain way as we are here. But that family is suffering a loss. And the father now even who won after all this battle is going to have a hard time, because the kid is going to have sleeping problems, eating problems.
He will be angry. And I'm worried about also, when he grows up, he will have difficulty creating close relationships, because he has been torn from everybody all the time.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: OK. Look, let's think about this for a second, if this is just writ large a problem or a circumstance that many families face where somebody moves from one parent to the other. How are you supposed to deal with that? Because, right now, Sean's father is probably feeling some sense of relief and victory at what has happened.
But that is not going to be the thing that is going to help them come together.
KURIANSKY: Right.
And Sean's father has said, in fact, I am going to give him so much love, so much love.
Of course, terrific. He's going to need that. But his father is going to have to also understand that he is going to support at school. He is going to need support with his friends and with everybody, because it will not be an easy road at all for any of these people. So, in all those cases, there are difficulties for everyone involved.
There is joy, but also tremendous work psychologically.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: The two families, this is a strange situation. Because he has got a half-sister, and because he spent so much time with this family, this can't be a situation where he is entirely estranged from his Brazilian family. Or can it?
KURIANSKY: Well, he shouldn't be, because he grew up with them and he has deep love for them. That would be tremendously unfair and traumatic.
He must have contact with them still. And that will make it more difficult for everybody, but very important for the child, because that is the major person. As you well know and as everybody knows, what is in the child's best interest legally and certainly psychologically is not to not see his family at all. Those abandonment issues would be devastating.
He must see the family and certainly his half-sister, the father whom he loves and be able to even possibly visit his mom's grave. This is his whole family in Brazil.
VELSHI: Is this going to be the kind of thing that if it is handled well, if everybody does things as best they can, that Sean could grow up an entirely normal kid? KURIANSKY: It will take years for him to adjust, and it will be difficult, but he can certainly make it through.
I do think though he will always have, since he was so young at the time, the underlying feelings that pop up every now and then about loss, abandonment. He will have to mourn. He could be normal, so to speak, if he works through...
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: He was 4 when he was first separated from his birth father, so his feelings would have been different then they are now from being separated, right?
KURIANSKY: Well, let's not underestimate 4-year-olds.
VELSHI: OK.
KURIANSKY: Four-year-olds, they may not have that same cognitive development that I told you about earlier, Ali, but they still have their emotional feelings. And they react to separations tremendously from mother and father.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Yes. Yes.
KURIANSKY: And we had death of mother and now these symbolic kinds of death. And children are -- emotionally, they somatize it. They don't so much intellectually it and think it through.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: I see.
KURIANSKY: They put it into physical symptoms. So, he will stomach aches, headaches, all these kinds of things. He could still be normal. I don't want -- I know you're saying that.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: And I don't know what normal is anyway. We have all got issues.
(CROSSTALK)
KURIANSKY: A lot of kids do live through this, as you said, but not after a huge legal battle.
And it will dog him all of his life, because of the Internet, the big story and all of these -- other kids in school will constantly be asking him.
VELSHI: Yes.
(CROSSTALK) KURIANSKY: And when soccer comes up, listen, basketball and soccer are very different, beaches very different from a snowstorm.
VELSHI: Yes. That is going to be an interesting story.
Well, thank you for shedding some light on this, because I think it's something, as have all been following this, that many of us have been thinking. What about little Sean? I know everybody is trying to work in his best interests, but what is really best for him?
Thanks so much, Dr. Judy. Great to see you.
David and Sean are flying back to the United States on a private jet. It was chartered by NBC. The nonprofit Bring Sean Home Foundation says that David Goldman has spent more than $400,000 on his battle to get his son back. The foundation has been collecting donations to help with the cost.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Reid of Nevada.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: What is everybody laughing at? Senator Majority Leader Harry Reid almost voted against the health care bill, the one he has worked so hard to push through. He must have been tired. The bill still passed. And one senator says it is sending the wrong message for the new year to Americans and to the world. I'm going to talk with Senator Crapo live. That is ahead.
And snow, ice, wind, rain, a major holiday storm hitting the central part of this country. We will show you how it is likely to affect your travel plans and maybe give you some tips from Chad Myers as to how to get where you're going.
VELSHI: Don't forget, the other way to participate in this national conversation is to call us. In the United States, the number is 877-742-5751.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: OK. Important headline on the economy many of you may have missed.
Freddie Mac announced that average rate for a 30-year fixed mortgage has just crossed over 5 percent for the first time since the end of October. Now, that is the kind of mortgage that you would get on a 30-year fixed rate on a conforming mortgage. That is if you have good credit.
Take a look at the rate for a 15-year mortgage. It is still very, very low. These are still historically low rates, but we haven't seen rates substantially lower since May or June, when they were really in the mid-fours for a 30-year fixed mortgage. Important for those of you who are thinking that you may want to buy a house.
You may be worried that the value of the house is going to go down over the course of the next year, as many people have predicted. But, remember, if interest rates go up let's say by a full percentage point or more, well, use the Internet to do some calculating. You may find that it is better to start thinking about buying a house earlier if you have got the money and the good credit, especially with that first-time homebuyer's credit.
(WEATHER UPDATE)
VELSHI: Democrats vote yes. Republicans vote no. Clear party lines when it comes to health care. So, what does this mean as the bill moves forward Senator Mike Crapo joins me next. Hear why he says today's vote is seeing the wrong message.
And, for years, there have been questions as to whether Iran was harboring or sheltering any of Osama bin Laden's family. We have got the answers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: What were you doing at 7:00 this morning? Ninety-nine United States senators were up at work and voting. And it was as if that party aisle was a solid brick wall. Every Democrat and two independents said yes. Every Republican said no, except for one, who didn't show up for the vote, and that was that.
Health care bill, Senate version, now passed, adjourned, go home, happy holidays. Well, there is no health care reform just yet. With the House version done, that's two down, a House and a Senate version, and plenty of work to do before some form of merged plan then goes to the president.
Now, the man who is about to appear on screen right there, he is one of this morning's nay voters. Senator Mike Crapo is a Republican from Idaho.
Senator, stay right there. I'm going to talk to you in a second about the bill.
But, first, watch this with me. It is President Obama speaking shortly after you and your colleagues' historic vote today.
Play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Ever since Teddy Roosevelt first called for reform in 1912, seven presidents -- Democrats and Republicans alike -- have taken up the cause of reform. Time and time again, such efforts have been blocked by special-interest lobbyists who perpetuated a status quo that works better for the insurance industry than it does for the American people.
But with passage of reform bills in both the House and the Senate, we are now finally poised to deliver on the promise of real, meaningful health-insurance reform that will bring additional security and stability to the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: All right. Live with me now from Capitol Hill, Idaho Republican Senator Mike Crapo, one of the few left around the Senate right now, because most of your colleagues wanted to get out of there after weeks and weeks of this thing.
Senator, thanks for being with us.
SEN. MIKE CRAPO (R), IDAHO: Well, thank you.
VELSHI: All right, Senator, there were a lot of people unhappy this morning, some because they don't like the bill, some of your colleagues and supporters, some because they are frankly disgusted by the antics that went on in the Senate in the last few weeks.
What have you got to say about that, first of all?
CRAPO: Well, I think it was a terrible message, the way this bill moved forward.
The president promised that it would be negotiated with everybody at the table and with a C-SPAN camera there to see who was cutting the deals and who was really working for America. Yet, the bill was crafted behind closed doors, with no input from really anybody but those who were there.
And we just got the last 400 pages of it last Friday -- or Saturday morning, and still have not had an opportunity to find out really what is in it.
We are finding out, however, about the deals. And I think the public is as unhappy with the substance of this bill as they are with the process of the bill.
VELSHI: Let's talk about -- I spoke to your colleague Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison yesterday. Some of your colleagues are questioning the very constitutionality of key parts of that bill. Are you part of that group? Do you think it's possible that this bill is unconstitutional?
CRAPO: Yes, I think there are parts of it that very likely are unconstitutional, such as the individual mandate forcing all Americans to purchase insurance or pay fines and penalties.
There are also parts of the bill that seek to stop future congresses from changing it without getting a two-thirds votes, in other words, trying to bind future congresses and stopping them from doing anything that would undercut or change the direction of this legislation.
VELSHI: And, in fact, some people are talking about running in the next election or running for reelection in the next election under a repeal health care platform.
CRAPO: Oh, yes. There is a tremendous amount of dissatisfaction with this bill across the country.
In fact, one of the reasons I am sure that it was forced through before Christmas was to get it done and off the table, so to speak, before the American public has an opportunity to truly understand it, and before the members of the Senate have to go back to their constituencies in their home states and face their public.
The people in this country are 2-1 against this bill, and for good reason, because it does not really achieve health care reform. It doesn't bring down the cost of health care. It drives it up, but it does so at a cost of $2.5 trillion of new federal spending and hundreds of billions of dollars of new taxes.
VELSHI: Well, I have to tell you, I don't want to dispute your facts. We don't have polling that shows 2-1 against, the poll. We show almost an even split. And that is not clear that people don't want health care reform. They just may not like this particular bill.
Senator Crapo, are you planning to go home -- going home, or are you just loving Washington so much that you're going to stay there?
CRAPO: Oh, no. I am on my way home.
VELSHI: All right. You have a safe holiday. And thanks for joining us today.
CRAPO: Thank you.
VELSHI: Senator Mike Crapo of Idaho.
OK. What do you get when you add a winter storm to Christmas travel? Well, you get a traffic nightmare. Ahead, Chad joins us with another weather update.
And a Philippine volcano on the verge of an explosive eruption. Thousands of people have been forced to flee lava and ash. We have got amazing pictures for you up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: And a stunning turn in the bloody battle for the soul of Mexico today in a segment we call "Conexion."
Remember this, Cuernavaca, Mexico, the gun battle that took down one of the country's most notorious drug barons, a man known as the boss of bosses? If revenge is best served cold, what happened next is positively chilling and has many Mexicans bracing for what might come next.
Senior Latin American Affairs editor Rafael Romo takes it from here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR (voice- over): It was a solemn and somber memorial for a soldier who gave his life for his country. Mexico was honoring Melquisedet Angulo, a Marine in the Mexican armed forces who died last week in a raid in central Mexico.
Angulo was killed in a shoot-out with members of a powerful drug cartel. The leader of the drug cartel, Arturo Beltran Leyva, his brother Hector, and five of their associates were also killed. Only seven hours after the fallen Marine had been laid to rest in an apparently act of retribution, gunmen attacked his home in the Mexican state of Tabasco.
Authorities say the hit men killed his mother and three other relatives. Another family member was seriously injured.
FELIPE CALDERON, MEXICAN PRESIDENT (through translator): This is a coward and despicable act. These reprehensible actions show how organized crime operates without regard to anything, killing innocent victims.
ROMO: For people in Mexico, this apparently act of retaliation is nothing new. Drug traffickers routinely kill police officers and government officials, especially those involved in anti-narcotic agencies. Many times, family members are caught in the crossfire, if not intentionally killed.
CALDERON (through translator): We will not be intimidated by unscrupulous criminals like the ones who have committed these atrocities. Those who act in this way only deserve to be repudiated by society and should pay for their crimes.
ROMO (on camera): President Felipe Calderon declared war on drug cartels when he took office in December of 2006. More than 14,000 people have died so far during his presidency.
Rafael Romo, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: Four suspected cartel members have been arrested in the killings. Two are accused of paying the hitmen. Two are accused of being lookouts.
As often happens in Mexico, local police are suspected of having had a role in the killings.
A couple of events of note happening overseas right now, let's get right to them. In Iran -- and this is always the case -- there is what Tehran wants the world to see, and then there is what they don't want the world to see.
Here is the former from official state television in Iran, a mostly peaceful-looking march, people in the streets protesting another march, one to show support for a major opposition cleric who died last weekend. Now there is this, a much different flavor of protest that you are not likely to see on official Iranian TV. This is allegedly riot control police and militia members getting rough with protesters, the same ones mourning the death of that cleric.
Now, we had to get this video from other sources who post to the Internet, since CNN and all foreign media are banned from covering the protests in Iran.
OK, big jump over to the Philippines. Christmas or not, thousands of people are told to get away from their homes, to do it now, and not to come back. Look at what is in their backyard. This is no joke. A very, very active and angry volcano is shooting lava and ash and smoke and generally behaving badly. This video is from before dawn today. Pretty impressive.
Take a look at it in daylight, though. Look at that. The army is helping people relocate, going door-to-door, making sure people are as far from this thing as possible. That volcano is the most active volcano in the Philippines. Scientists say it is ready to blow its top at any time. It looks like it is a lot of the way there already.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To come in with something stuck in your chest and order a cup of coffee and sit down, and he was mingling with the guy next to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: So, a guy rolls into a diner and orders a cup of coffee. Nothing wrong with that, except that he had a five-inch steak knife stuck in his chest. We have got his incredible 911 call to 911. This is one story you are not going to want to miss.
Plus, look at this, major -- well, that is Chad Myers. He is not a major storm, but he is following a major storm that is barreling across the Central United States. How is it going to affect your holiday travel? Chad is on top of this, the airports, the roads, generally the weather mess in a big part of this country.
Remember, you can join us for this national conversation, even when you are in Atlanta. You want a tour? You want to see Rick in action? Call 877-4CNN-TOUR.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Now if you are spending Christmas with grandma, hope you are already there and planning to stay a while, especially if grandma lives in Oklahoma City. Check that out, Oklahoma City is so bad the governor has declared a state of emergency and is asking people to stay off the roads. Looks more like Iowa heading to Minnesota.
Boyd Huppert of our Minneapolis affiliate KARE (ph) made that trip.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A winter storm warning remains in effect until 6:00 p.m. Friday.
BOYD HUPPERT, KARE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iowa suffers what Minnesota had coming. On I-35, near the state line, for every tap on the gas, a push on the brake.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's three hours earlier than originally planned.
HUPPERT: Kara and Isaac Bills (ph) are driving from Des Moines to Burnsville to celebrate Christmas, carrying some precious cargo in the back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are going up to Minnesota.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And see uncle Jake (ph), and...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And aunt Becky (ph) and Carly (ph) the dog.
HUPPERT: For daughters Claire (ph) and Sophia (ph), it has been an extra long ride.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last hour or so, there is only about one lane that was open the whole way. So, made it pretty difficult, the left lane didn't look like it had been plowed.
HUPPERT: At least their stop at the Albert Lea rest area was plowed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, there's going to be a lot of this.
HUPPERT: Thanks to the late-working custodian Richard Allen (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I will be here until 1:00 in the morning, and the way the weather looks, I might be here long after that too.
HUPPERT: (INAUDIBLE) has a mighty presence north of the border, 800 plows dispatched statewide. Still spinouts and ditched cars are mile-marker thick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Once we got north of Des Moines, it was awful, it was just ice and everything. I mean, we saw people spinning off of the road. We saw troopers spinning out and everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wouldn't mind getting there a little quicker, but, you know, as long as we stay out of the ditch, you know, I guess that is ultimately the goal.
HUPPERT: Isaac and Kara's little girls were keeping spirits bright.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a snowflake. HUPPERT: We heard them exclaim as they drove out of sight...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drive safe!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: All right. Chad is in the severe weather headquarters.
Chad, how is it looking? How much of the country is in for it this storm?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, you know, the wind speed in Oklahoma and Kansas and Nebraska and even down into Dallas now at 40 to 50 miles per hour, it doesn't take much to either put you off the road or to -- you know, to strand the car. And then all of a sudden, you have all of those kids in the car.
You know, you have got to be careful out there. KWTV (ph), there is a live shot looking at I-35. You can be just a little bit, right there, there is a little bit of a rut right through the middle of the camera, that is about it. Anything other than that, I haven't seen a car or truck in a while, because it is snowing all of the way from west of Kansas City right on back through the Flint Hills into the Wichita and down into Oklahoma City proper, and now sliding into Fort Worth.
Tarrant County, especially and north part of Tarrant County, seeing a pretty good heavy snow band right now, and more to come, certainly more to come here all the way up and down I-35, and I-29, and then 81, U.S. 81 will be very difficult today.
The problem is that all of the wind speeds are coming out of the north at 30, so any east-west highway, 80, 70, and the like, those will be difficult to travel, too, because of the way that the snow is blowing across.
Now, one more thing to worry about for later on tonight, the potential for severe weather. That is what this tornado watch box is here. I haven't seen the storm rotate lately. The last rotator was probably an hour ago, but there will be super cells that pop up ahead of the line that could possibly rotate up into parts of Mississippi -- eastern Mississippi, Alabama, maybe even to southern Georgia and the panhandle of Florida.
It does look like, at least right now, Ali, that the north part of the storm is losing moisture, losing energy, because of this massive rain down here, kind of sucking it up, using it up and not allowing it to get up into Minnesota. So Minneapolis and Minnesota and Wisconsin may not get the amount of snow that was forecast yesterday, because they won't have the humidity in the air to do it.
VELSHI: The forecast was for record snowfalls for Christmas.
MYERS: Yes, and I don't see that now. I don't see that because the air gets too dry, too cold, and it will be fluffy snow that blows around, but -- you know, and you can't make a snowman out of it, but there's just not going to be that much of it.
VELSHI: They are tough up there. They know how to handle...
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: They like it.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Chad, thanks. We'll check in with you again. Chad Myers at the severe weather center.
Osama bin Laden has evaded capture for years. The whereabouts of his family is -- immediate family are almost as mysterious as his own whereabouts. Are they in hiding? Are they under house arrest? Are they trying to seek asylum? We have got new information that could provide the answers right ahead.
And don't forget, the other way to participate in this "National Conversation" is to call us. In the United States, the number is 1- 877-742-5751.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Well, the holidays just wouldn't be the same without song. So I'm going to sing a little something for you right now -- I'm not. But we are in the spirit this Christmas Eve, and that would just ruin it if I were to sing. So here is the Georgia Boy Choir singing "Carol of the Bells."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC PLAYING, "CAROL OF THE BELLS")
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: Gosh, if that didn't get you into the spirit for the holiday, then you know what, throw in the towel, nothing is going to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a free country and people should be able to do what they choose to on which days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: We have all heard of blue laws. You know them. In many places they keep you from buying alcohol on Sunday, but the people who wrote them have gone and, well, they have come and gone and the blue laws are still around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Having trouble buying a bottle of wine for dinner on a Sunday? Blame blue laws, holdovers from the earliest days of this country that dictated moral behavior. Today they pretty much dictate what you can and can't buy on Sunday, typically alcohol.
Now that times are lean, though, some states are thinking blue laws should go the way of the puritans. My friend Christine Romans, explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 'Tis the season to eat, drink, and be merry, except that you can't do this on Sundays in some parts of the country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I think the law is an arcane law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a free country and people should be able to do what they choose to on which days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They will still go to church, because I know my church people will go to church.
ROMANS: They are called blue laws and they limit shopping on items from booze to Buicks. More than a dozen states have laws restricting alcohol sales on Sundays with three, including Georgia, banning liquor store sales altogether. In several states and counties, you can't buy a car on Sundays. Dealerships must be closed.
In most counties in South Carolina, retail outlets cannot open before 1:30 on a Sunday unless they are selling necessary items like fuel or food. It is based on a centuries' old Christian concept brought over to this country in early colonial times.
DAVID LABAND, ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, AUBURN UNIVERSITY: Early, particularly the statewide blue laws actually referenced the fact that, you know, you were not to profane the lord on the lord's day. And that you went to church on Sundays. You know, there would be no other work permitted on Sunday.
ROMANS: But Sunday closings have little to do with religion today. Mac Thurston, owner of Mac's Beer and Wine in downtown Atlanta, is happy to close his doors on Sundays for other reasons.
MAC THURSTON, OWNER, MAC'S BEER AND WINE: It is a day of rest that I like taking personally and professionally, all we will do is to spread out six days worth of sales over seven, incurring overhead costs that we don't have now.
ROMANS: While big businesses with large payrolls have pushed to repeal blue laws, many small mom and pops need to keep them around as a forced time-out from competition.
LABAND: This is not necessarily a religious thing any longer, at least, that there just -- you know, whether it is Monday, whether it is Sunday, whether it's Saturday, or some other day of the week, small business owners in particular just need to have time off and they take that time off.
ROMANS: Blue laws or not, Truett Cathy, the founder of fast food chain Chik-Fil-A, has never let his restaurants open on a Sunday. For him, it is about religion. God comes before the bottom line.
TRUETT CATHY, FOUNDER, CHIK-FIL-A: It teaches very plainly the lord rests for a day. When you work hard all week, you need that day.
ROMANS: Christine Romans, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: Christine is going to have a lot more in a CNN special "In God We Trust," a look at faith and money in America tonight at 6:00 Eastern.
Let's take a look at some of your tweets. Thank you for sending them in. A number of them have been about some of things we've talked about today. One of them we haven't is that Freddie and Fannie Mae bosses are getting big bonuses. We've got one that says: "Freddie/Fannie created to protect Americans, it is unconscionable obscenity for execs to take" -- dollars, "$$$ at this time."
Another one: "If the U.S. demands the return of abducted U.S. kids, how about foreign kids abducted by U.S. citizens?" We've got one that says: "Sorry it took them so long to come to the right decision," also talking about the Goldman case, "boy is now traumatized one more time. Too many losses."
And the "Goldman custody is a no-brainer. However, it would be nice for David Goldman to keep relations open with the stepfamily." One more that's about Goldman family, it says: "The Goldman" -- ah, I can't see the side of that, "good ending to a bad experience, hard to understand why it took so long. Praise."
Well, a little girl asks Santa for the biggest gift on her Christmas list. She wants her dad to come home from war. Can the big man make her Christmas wish come true?
And Osama bin Laden's family, where are they? We have got details you won't want to miss.
And don't forget to visit Rick in the studio. If you are in Atlanta, go to cnn.com/tour for more details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: OK. See this video right there? That is a live picture coming from our tower cam on top of the Time Warner Center here in New York. It is great for beauty shots, we can aim it all over the city, checking out the weather, and spying on one of our own. Let's do Las Fotos del Dia.
OK. See that guy there, the guy on his knee? That is one of our producers, David Reisner (ph). Last night he took his girlfriend standing right there, she is also one of our colleagues, we have got the video right there, he is on the knees. You know what, he popped the question right there and there he gets up, and they are hugging each other. You can tell by her reaction she said yes. So to David and Christine (ph), we say congratulations from all of us here at CNN. God, I can't get enough of that.
To Ohio, where a little girl sat on Santa's lap and told him that all she wanted for Christmas was her dad to return home from war. So the big man made one of his biggest deliveries a few days early. The soldier had been deployed since July and will get to spend the rest of the holidays with his family.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911: 911.
CALLER: Yes, ma'am, could -- is it possible to send an ambulance here?
911: What is going on?
CALLER: There is a knife stuck in my chest.
911: What kind of knife is it?
CALLER: I don't know. It looks like a steak knife.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELSHI: To Michigan now. Wow. OK. The guy who called in sounds incredibly calm for a man who just had a knife plunged into his chest during an attempted robbery. It is almost like he is ordering a cheeseburger or something. Well, guess what, after he placed the 911 call, he walks across the road to the diner, orders a cup of coffee and started talking about the weather until the police arrived. I really can't make this stuff up. Police won't identify the man, but say that he is going to be OK. He apparently told the dispatcher the reason he was going to the diner is because there is a seat in there and it was getting cold outside. OK.
The life of a bin Laden, what is it like? What do they do? Well, they spoke to CNN today. We'll share that with you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right. We are going to take a look at some tweets right now. A lot of you have been sending them in. We were talking about blue laws. Blue laws are old and we all know by now, old laws and politicians (ph) can't live up today's modern standards of living. Ryan (ph) continues on to say: "I'm in the spirit."
All right. We've got one about the Georgia Boy Choir. "Thank you and thanks for playing the song. It is my all-time favorite Christmas song."
And we have got one that says: "Finally, the kid is home," talking about Sean Goldman. I hope he was -- sorry: " Finally, the kid is home. He was kidnapped by his mother. Justice has been served. I hope his homecoming is seamless."
All right. I challenge you, give me a name more closely connected to September 11th than bin Laden -- Osama bin Laden. For more than eight years, he has managed to avoid being captured or killed, despite the wide-reaching American and NATO missions dedicated to finding him.
But today I'm not talking about the al Qaeda leader himself. Osama bin Laden has a family, very large family. And you are about to get some insight into what it is like to live a life with the name bin Laden.
Check out this video. That man is Omar bin Laden. He is the son of Osama bin Laden. And he has now weighed in on a New York Times article suggesting that many members of his family are being held against their will in Iran.
This gets a little bit complicated. So I have asked CNN's Mohammed Jamjoom to help me pick it apart. Mohammed has spoken with the family. We don't know much about the extended bin Laden family.
You do. Tell us about them, where they are and why Osama bin Laden's son is speaking out.
MOHAMMED JAMJOOM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ali, as you mentioned, you know, there have been so many stories about the bin Ladens over the years, I mean, especially after 9/11.
Now I would like to stress first that, you know, the bin Laden family of Saudi Arabia, there are hundreds of members of that family. It is a huge family. The part of the family that we are going to be focusing on today is actually in Iran, believe it or not.
This is one of the stranger stories we have heard about the family. After 9/11 there were a group of about 30 bin Ladens that went to Iran, now the family says that they are there -- they sought refuge in Iran because no other country would take them because there was such a stain upon their name after the events of 9/11.
That there are reports now that some of them are actually being held under house arrest by the Iranians, and they want to leave the country. So we spoke today to Omar bin Laden's wife. Omar bin Laden is the 28-year-old son of Osama bin Laden. You saw in that video, I mean, he couldn't look more different than you would perceive.
He has got dreadlocks, you know, very tight-fitting shirt, very stylish jeans. And his wife told us that the Iranians are not holding any of the family under house arrest. She told us that actually they love being there. They are happy being there. The Iranians treat them with the utmost respect. They feed and the clothe them.
The interesting part of the story is that there are reports that Iman (ph) bin Laden, one of the daughters of Osama bin Laden, in the past few weeks, decided she had had enough of Iran and wanted to leave, went to the Saudi embassy in Tehran to try to seek refuge there.
So I asked Zaina (ph) about this. I said, is that true? She said, no, she's not seeking refuge there. She just misses her mother. She wants to go to Syria to see her mother. She has to get her papers in order to leave the country.
VELSHI: But she has been at the consulate -- the embassy for 20 days, for three weeks.
JAMJOOM: Twenty days. That's what I was told. She has been there 20 days. Anybody who hears that anybody who has been at an embassy for more than two hours, you think they are seeking refuge. I asked about that. I said, is it true? Is she actually there trying to flee the country? Is she trying to get out from under the Iranian authorities to leave?
I was told no, she loves being in Iran. She loves the country. She is staying there. But how can she be staying there? And I was told, well, they have a suite at the embassy. Now that just sounds strange to everybody involved.
VELSHI: Yes, now let's figure this out here. Why would they either need the Iranian government's protection or would they be in danger of being in Iran? What is the politics here?
JAMJOOM: Well, the politics are very complex. I mean, nobody quite knows why this portion of the family went there. Omar bin Laden, he has written a book about his experience. He has said that these group of children, that they have actually broken with their father's ideology. They do not support al Qaeda. They went to Iran willingly, and they are happy there.
There are many other reports people are saying, no, they don't like being there. They were held there. They stopped off there to drop off some members of the family. They wanted to leave in September of 2001, they could not leave. The Iranians kept them there.
Why do the Iranians want them there? Nobody seems to know. You ask the Iranian government, they deny that the bin Ladens are under house arrest. The bin Ladens say, yes, there are about 30 there. But why would they be there? There is not exactly a warm relationship between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It does not quite add up.
VELSHI: But Omar bin Laden is the oldest son at this point. There's one son that's not accounted for right now that is suspected to have had closer ties with Osama bin Laden, possibly working with al Qaeda.
JAMJOOM: That's true. Osman (ph) bin Laden has been -- they say that he was in Tehran. That he went with this original group, with 30 people. He was in that compound with that family, but that he's not there any longer.
Now again, Omar bin Laden has said in his book, in many interviews that Osman bin Laden is not involved in any kind of terrorist activities. He has not gone back there. He is not participating in that. There are others that say that's quite the contrary.
Again, there's so much mystery around this family and they guard their secrecy so well. It is really hard to know. But again this week you have got the Iranians saying, no, this isn't true. The Saudis aren't commenting at all. And you have got the family saying, we love Iran, everything is fine, they're treating us well.
And yet, one of our girls, one of Osama bin Laden's daughters, is at the Saudi embassy. She has been there 20 days, not leaving any time soon until she gets her papers so that she can go to Syria to visit her mother. It just gets weirder and weirder.
VELSHI: Mohammed, let me ask you this, what do they do? Where do they get their money? Are they using family money? I mean, it must not be the simplest thing even in Iran to get through life with the last name bin Laden.
JAMJOOM: This has been a key question since September 11th. Where do the bin Ladens get their money? I must stress again, this is a huge merchant family in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. I mean, they have a construction empire in Saudi Arabia. So the family is very well off.
And as you will hear about it in cultures like in the Saudi culture, these families take care of each other. You know, they are very large and extended families. People make sure that the people, the cousins, the extended family, they are all taken care of.
So nobody quite knows exactly where they get their money from. Is there a monthly stipend? Are they getting specifically every year disbursements? But apparently they are doing quite well.
VELSHI: Mohammed, great to talk to you. Thank you for bringing us up to speed on this.
JAMJOOM: Thanks, Ali.
VELSHI: Mohammed Jamjoom.
Let's go back to Chad Myers in the extreme weather center to find out what is going on now.
Hey, Chad.
MYERS: A couple of things going on. We know Santa is now in Moscow. And so he will be traveling and getting into Europe rather quickly. And then over the big Atlantic Ocean. So got to be thinking about what time you are going to send the kids to sleep tonight. There's KWTV. People still trying to battle their way through that. That's just a snow event.
Still 4,800 planes in the sky trying to get people where they want to go today. A lot of planes are very full. And so the planes that are getting canceled out of Oklahoma and Dallas are kind of having trouble getting in and out, a blizzard going on all the way from Wichita down I-35 and into Dallas, especially Fort Worth. But this weather will slide right through the DFW Airport. And that will slow things down for sure.
And the very last thing I have got because I have got nothing going on today, tornado watch down to the Southeast. And that tornado watch will probably be slid into parts of Alabama with one or two of those storms rotating like we had them rotating yesterday -- Ali.
VELSHI: All right. You are going to keep us busy with those reports of what's going on with traffic and weather. You did say earlier that there was nothing going on in and out of Oklahoma, and it looks like that has broken a little bit. You saw at least one flight going in and going out.
MYERS: Yes. You know, and I think that was just a private plane that was diverted out towards Tulsa, I just saw that. And actually when I saw it, then I looked at it later, it never did land in Oklahoma City. So it diverted off...
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Chad, thanks very much for keeping an eye on it. Everybody be safe when you travel.
Listen, Suzanne Malveaux and "THE SITUATION ROOM" are up next. But you all seem to like the boy choir quite a bit so we are going to give you a little more of that right now. Merry Christmas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC PLAYING, "CAROL OF THE BELLS")
(END VIDEOTAPE)
