Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Suspect in Botched Bomb Attack Allegedly Tied to Al Qaeda
Aired December 26, 2009 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Drew Griffin at the CNN Center in Atlanta in today for Don Lemon. This is a special edition of CNN NEWSROOM. We continue to follow the terror over Detroit.
And an alleged plot to blow up a passenger jet over Michigan failed on Christmas Day. After a pop and a cloud of smoke, the suspect tackled, and the plane lands safely. Now the investigation is growing across three continents, it centers on that man, in that white T-shirt, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. He's hospitalized but already he's been charged with attempting to destroy a U.S. airplane and placing a destructive device inside this aircraft.
He is the son of a wealthy banker in Nigeria. He's well educated and apparently claiming ties to Al Qaeda. But who is this man really? And how he did slip through the crack at various security checkpoints?
Air travelers already feeling a ripple effect; we are using our global resources to tell this story from every angle, we have Martin Savage on the ground in Detroit with the latest on the investigation, Deb Feyerick is just about 40 miles away with the Ann Arbor hospital where the suspect was charged, and Homeland Security Correspondent Jeanne Meserve is in Washington, D.C. with a look at the criminal charges that have been filed. Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson picks up the story in London, where it appears the suspect attended college.
So how did this happen and who is this suspect and did Al Qaeda play a role? Who is the passenger who took decisive action? And just some of the answers we're going to get for you over the next few hours here at CNN.
First, though, the suspect had his hearing before a judge just a short time ago. It wasn't in a courtroom. It was in a hospital in Ann Arbor, Michigan. That's where our Deb Feyerick is live -- apparently she's going to join us in a moment.
First we want to go to Jeanne Meserve in Washington, who has been looking over the court papers and talking to her sources about the charges against Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab - Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we do know, of course, that a judge did speak with him today in Ann Arbor. Deb Feyerick has all the details on what happened during that proceeding. But in the court documents he's charged with in a federal criminal complaint with trying to destroy this Northwest Airlines airplane, and for placing a destructive device on board that aircraft. In an affidavit that is filed with this criminal complaint, they talk about the fact that he had hidden on his body an explosive device, consisting of PETN, which is a very volatile, very powerful explosive. And that they also found a syringe in the vicinity of his seat, which they believe was part of this device.
And it goes on to describe how passengers and crew members described to investigators that he left his seat for about 20 minutes, went to the bathroom, came back, complaining of a stomach ache, covered himself up with a blanket. And that's when they started hearing these popping noise which are now alleged to be his effort to detonate this explosive device.
When asked by a stewardess what he was doing and what he had in his pocket, he said according to the affidavit, quote, "an explosive device". So, apparently no effort to engage in subterfuge there.
The big question in Washington, of course, is -was this man acting alone? Was he acting in concert with others? Had he been trained by others? Official sources are not giving us any of that information now and absolutely none of it is in the court documents that we have seen thus far.
There are people outside of the government, some of them former government officials, some of them very familiar with aviation security, who believe they do see some indications here that this individual was indeed trained by somebody who knew what they were doing, they cite the fact he had the PETN, which is not something you buy on any street corner. That he had this alibi of a stomach ache, that he used a blanket, that he was seated very strategically on the aircraft, all as being indications this is someone who perhaps was not just a lone wolf. But, as I say, from U.S. government sources at this point in time, absolutely no information yet on who his associates may have been if he had any at all -Drew.
GRIFFIN: Jeanne, thanks. Yes, the court record, which I'm looking at now, it is very slim. And although we heard the suspect is talking, there is no quotes really from the suspect that are directly in here. The suspect did apparently talk in his brief, we'll call it a court appearance, today, at an Ann Arbor Michigan hospital conference room. There were pool reporters in there. One of them was Peggy Ager. Let's listen, Jeanne, to what Peggy had to say describing the suspect as he appeared today now, one day after this attempted takedown of an aircraft.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEGGY AGER, POOL REPORTER, WXYZ TV NEWS: At one point they asked him if he could afford his own attorney, or if he needed consult to be appointed to him and took a little while to explain that to him, what that meant. He said he did not have funds and that he could not afford his own attorney.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: Jeanne, he apparently speaks perfect English, had no problems understanding what took place, but, again, from the court records that you and I now have both read, there is no indication exactly what he is telling authorities about how he got this plan, where he got the material from, et cetera. I imagine they're asking those questions.
MESERVE: I'm sure they're asking those questions. And they're looking probably at all sorts of other evidence that they may have seen at that apartment in London, where he had reportedly lived. Any sorts of electronics they have been able to get from him, be they computers, cell phones, anything. I'm sure they're doing a very thorough investigation now.
We did find out earlier today from a senior administration official that they were aware of this individual. That his father, who is Nigerian had alerted authorities to the fact that he was worried about his son and what he might be up to, the NCTC, the National Counterterrorism Center, did have a file on him, according to the senior official. But apparently there wasn't any sort of red flag that was so prominent, there was no detailed information that would put him on a no-fly list, or would revoke his visa. So he was able to fly.
GRIFFIN: All right, Jeanne Meserve from Washington, D.C., thank you for joining us on that.
Dutch authorities are defending their security screeners, even as they offer clues to how the suspect slipped explosive material past them. Richard Quest filed this report from Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport, a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: Officials here now confirm certain key facts about what took place here on Christmas Day. The information is coming from the national coordinator for counterterrorism. It confirms, for instance, that the passenger did indeed arrive on a flight from Lagos, Nigeria, and then transferred to the Northwest flight to Detroit.
Information on the passenger manifest was provided by the airline through the advance passenger information list, which was sent to the U.S. authorities, who then cleared the flight to depart. That will be of interest to those who want to know whether the suspect was indeed on a U.S. no-fly list.
On the question of security checks, the authorities here in Amsterdam confirm that the passenger did go through normal security checks, or as they put it, security was well performed. However, there are pains to point out that if the passenger had powders upon his person or bottles of liquid somewhere else, then they certainly wouldn't have been picked up by the metal detector.
Another reason why, perhaps, tonight the new security checks from the U.S. Homeland Security have been put in place. Richard Quest, CNN, Amsterdam.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: Here is what we know about Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. He's 23 years old, from Nigeria, educated at the University College of London from September 2005 to June 2008. He went through normal security procedures as you heard in Amsterdam. And he had been granted a multi-year, multi-entry tourist visa at the U.S. embassy in London. That was back in June 2008. Authorities tell us there was nothing to prevent that from happening.
Sources tell CNN that while he's not believed to be on any no-fly list, his name does appear in a U.S. database of people with suspect connections. His father, retired as chairman of the First Bank PLC, in Nigeria. We're learning it was his father who also conducted the U.S. embassy in Nigeria a few weeks ago, according to family members. It seems he was concerned his son had become radicalized and could be planning something. CNN Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson has been on top of the story in London with the latest on the investigation, which includes a search of property there.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: Drew, this appears to be the property, the last property where Mr. Mutallab was living while he was studying at University College in London. That was in June 2008, where he completed his course there.
The university is about 10 minutes walk away from here. These are luxury apartments. They cost between $2 million and $4 million each. Apparently Mr. Mutallab was living on a ground floor, a basement apartment here, rather an apartment owned by his father.
The search that has been under way today has been suspended. Police counterterrorism police have been -- who have been leading that investigation, we saw six of their officers walk away from here about an hour, hour and a half ago, and another police officer told us that was the end of the search for the night. It was being suspended.
All the tape has gone up and there are police officers around this building, securing the building for the night. They do expect the search to continue tomorrow.
But I think this indicates one thing to us here, Drew, the police are not finding anything that would indicate to them that there is an active terror threat that is being generated by anything they're discovering here. I think one would readily imagine that in those circumstances the police would continue their investigation through the night, bring in additional officers.
So the search here is expected to continue, but it doesn't seem to be yielding anything at this stage. And intelligence officials always want us in situations like this for them gathering information is like gathering grains of sand, or a slice of a story, that you have to put all these pieces together, that takes time. The pieces they're recovering from here don't seem from the analysis we can give this situation to be leading to another immediate terror threat generated from information gathered here, Drew. GRIFFIN: Nic, before you go, I want to ask you this question, because we have been getting it a lot as we look into how these plans and plots are carried out in the planning that goes into it. The change here seems to be the timing of when this act would have been carried out, just before landing. We're also seeing different evolutions of how bombs or bomb components or explosive components are trying to be brought on to airplanes.
Do you sense an evolution is taking place, whether it is being directed from just one group at Al Qaeda, or whether there is some kind of a groundswell sharing of information on the internet that is moving this?
ROBERTSON: I think there are multiple things here, Drew. This is what terror experts and officials of leading counterterrorism operations tell us that it is an organic shift. It is something that the organization of Al Qaeda and the groups and people tightly affiliated, and loosely affiliated, are doing by default as much as they're doing it by design. We have seen Al Qaeda move its media campaign, if you will, through releasing videos on jihadi web sites to more organized use of videos, and social networking to find, filter, recruit and inform and radicalize people. We have seen that.
But in this case, if one takes a bigger analysis of what we're seeing from Al Qaeda over a number of years, we do know that they have always wanted to go for the spectacular. The 9/11 type attack, the attacks that they had in London here several years later, multiple attacks, the attacks they were planning on airliners here, the so- called liquid bomb plot three years ago, attacking multiple aircraft. The evolution, if what we're seeing is correct here, the evolution does seem to be evolving down to perhaps one individual trying to perpetrate this attack. Not only that, an individual who may or may not be affiliated to a core Al Qaeda group. That would be something new.
And another development here, again, this individual has said, or is reported to have said that he was given this bomb and told how and when to use it. This would also be an evolution. If we look at the attacks that happened, Al Qaeda attacks that have happened in the last number of years, people have gone away somewhere, they have been given training, they have come back in the U.K., for example, one or two members had training, radicalized and gathered a whole cell to get involved in a bigger -- in a bigger attack. Those attacks have been discovered here.
If what we're seeing is correct, and if what he's saying is correct, this is a case where a bomber is being given a ready to go device. This is what he said. That he was told how to use it. This is something that groups like the IRA, in Northern Ireland did, its groups, Palestinian terror groups, did this in the past. Other groups have done it where they build bombs, such that an operative who knows nothing about how to build them and can pick them up and carry on and use them. This would be, if correct, a new development.
And this hiding of the explosives about the body, using fluid as an injector to ignite and set this device off. Again, they're all techniques that seem to have evolved organically to get around security structures that have been put in place to defeat all these types of attacks. Al Qaeda evolves organically. And the core group evolves and those who they gather around them evolve organically and that's what we appear to be seeing here, Drew.
GRIFFIN: Nic Robertson joining us from London. Thank you.
Well, how do you investigate somebody who is on three different continents, and how do you manage this global investigation? We're going to talk about exactly that with former Homeland Security adviser Frances Townsend live right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRIFFIN: We want to show you a photo that we have obtained of the suspect. This is a photo that the family confirms is Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. I want to tell you where it came from. This, according to the family, is a picture of him wearing a uniform, a school uniform from his years of school in Togo. A family member believes the photo was released by one of Umar's college friends. You can see he looks rather innocent and baby-faced. And I mention that because that is one of what the pool reporters described him this afternoon as he was - appeared before a federal judge in Ann Arbor, Michigan. That's where our Deb Feyerick is where the suspect here was read the charges, I guess, in this mock courtroom in a hospital.
And where he did make some comments, Deb.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, more of a makeshift courtroom because obviously he could not be moved. He is being treated for his second and third degree burns. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was wheeled into the conference room at the burn unit here at the University of Michigan hospital. He was wearing a green hospital gown. His legs covered by a blanket. He was handcuffed to a wheelchair. His right hand and both thumbs all bandaged.
Two Detroit reporters who were allowed in to witness this initial appearance say what struck them the most is just how young he seemed, almost like a teenager, very slender, 5'8". He was calm, polite, spoke English, understood English, that the judge was speaking to him. This was an initial appearance. The charges against him that he had an explosive device and that he attempted to use that device to bring down a passenger plane.
Now, there was security around him while this was going on. Members of the FBI, two of them, standing directly behind him, were there as this proceeding was going on in the conference room at the burn unit. The judge asked him how he was feeling, he said, well, he's feeling much better. He also told the judge he could not afford a lawyer. That's surprising given he does appear to come from such a wealthy family.
Now the judge did appoint members of the federal defenders office. They immediately asked for access to the plane. They also raised the possibility that this young man is going to have to have skin grafts. As to the attorneys who brought the charges against him, they described Mutallab as a flight risk and a danger to the community. They're asking the judge for a DNA sample and the judge will make a determination of that on Monday.
Now, all of this, as you read through the affidavit, just so interesting how this was beginning to play out and the evidence that they have against him. Apparently prior to the incident he went to the bathroom for about 20 minutes, he was in there. When he got back to his seat 19A, right next to the window, he complained of a stomach ache and that is when, apparently he pulled a blanket over him. Shortly thereafter and explosion followed by fire climbing up the wall of that airplane. Passengers, obviously, subduing him and along with the flight attendants, putting that fire out.
But right now he is here. He is being treated for those burns. But the U.S. attorneys, they want a DNA sample and they are hoping to get that come Monday, Drew.
GRIFFIN: Deb, quick question, do you know when he gets out? Any indication when he gets out of that hospital?
FEYERICK: No, it is not clear yet. It really depends on the extent of the injuries. How they decide that they are going to treat him. Certainly they don't want to move him prematurely and incur any sort of more serious complications due to those wounds. There is going to be a formal detention hearing on January 8. But clearly, the U.S. attorney, they had to bring the charges now, because they didn't want to run the risk that he might be released, Drew.
GRIFFIN: Right, OK. Well, thanks a lot.
Well, this investigation stretches from Detroit to Europe, to Northern Nigeria. Piecing together the puzzle of what happened is easier said than done. Fran Townsend, CNN national security contributor, she is the former Homeland Security adviser to President George W. Bush.
And I imagine on days like today, back in the day, Fran, this was just nerve wracking time for you, wondering what was coming next. How do you manage an investigation like this while you're also trying to currently protect every other flight in the air?
FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's right, Drew. That is the challenge. But mostly what you're relying on are the FBI, the CIA, the investigative operational agencies that are actually trying to piece together what we know, and what we need to find out about the attack that has just been thwarted.
In the meantime, you are coordinating the activities of the Department of Homeland Security, who are working with the Transportation Security Administration, and others, to ensure the safety and security of the flying public. They also have to work with their allies around the world at international airports and we have heard the sorts of measures that are being put in place.
As they learn more and understand more about the attack that was thwarted, those pieces of information are shared, both internationally and domestically, with security officials so that those pieces of information can be sort of assimilated into screening procedures. We hear that people are now not permitted to get out in the last hour of the flight. Obviously, that goes back to the fact that this guy got up and spent 20 minutes in the lavatory. They're taking blankets and pillows away in the last hour of the flight. Obviously, that's related to the fact that he covered himself before he tried to detonate this device.
And we're going to see increasingly new security measures that relate almost directly to the plot. The real challenge now for federal security officials is anticipating how the -- our enemies, Al Qaeda, for example, might take this and twist it, change it just a little bit to try and get around even the changes that we're making now.
GRIFFIN: And, Fran, we have seen some evolution taking place. There was an attack in Saudi Arabia where, you know there is no easy way to put this, but a would be assassin put a bomb up his back side. Now this man has some material, we're told in his underwear. When you have somebody who is willing to die for the cause, a willing dupe, if you will, and somebody puts some kind of material into his hands, how realistic is it that we can set up any kind of screening, short of strip searching everybody on a plane, to prevent this from happening?
TOWNSEND: That's right, Drew. It really is a tremendous challenge for security officials. But, and, you know, when I was in the job, we used to say, they only have to be right once. We have to be right every single time, every single day. But that doesn't mean you give up. Of course we have explosive detection equipment. What you want to know is what are the component pieces look like. It is like putting together a puzzle. And the screeners have to know what are the different pieces of that puzzle look like so if they see those two, three, four pieces all in one carry-on, or all associated with one passenger, they know to be alerted. They know to give that person extra screening.
We have to look at, is there better explosive detection equipment that we need to put in place. Remember, the Richard Reed bomber, the shoe bomber, we're still taking our shoes off because we haven't developed the technology we need to do detect those explosives when you're walking through.
I don't have any doubt, Drew, this will generate a whole new rash of explosive detection capability.
GRIFFIN: Wow, all right. We'll have you on later in the show. I'll ask you specifically about what kind of cooperation we're going to get from Yemen, in all of this if, indeed, this is where his plot was developed. So we'll see you later this evening. Thanks, Fran.
TOWNSEN: Sure.
GRIFFIN: Well, how is this attempted terrorist attack affecting other travelers? There are new rules, as Fran said, for walking around the plane, even opening your carry on-bags now in effect. We'll talk to a traveler. He just flew in from London, to see if he noticed a difference.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRIFFIN: Air travelers already feeling the fall out from yesterday's failed terror attack. And if you are heading to the airport, you might want to get ready for a longer security line wait. Here is what the lines at the Detroit airport are looking like. And it is not just Detroit, travelers around the world, especially overseas, are feeling the security crackdown. Across the nation today, the TSA tightened up its focus on airline safety. Our Homeland Security Correspondent Jeanne Meserve has been covering it from Washington - Jeanne.
MESERVE: Drew, you know, holiday travel is daunting enough. Now add these new security rules and I'll tell you, you can imagine what the airports will look like.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice over): Security was up at airports across the country and the effect was obvious, longer lines at checkpoints.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were pretty sure that security would be highly increased so we came early, we brought food in case we got -- and they'll make us throw it out.
MESERVE: The Transportation Security Administration says for now there are no new restrictions on travelers. A single carry-on bag is permitted, as are three ounce liquid containers placed in a one quart plastic bag. But screeners are clearly increasing scrutiny of passengers and what they're carrying.
JOHNNY MCDONALD, PASSENGER: A young lady with her child, they X- rayed the milk I don't know how many times. And then they took the milk out, and sampled each and every bottle of the milk. I've never seen that before.
MESERVE: A TSA official says a new security directive was issued for international flights. Passengers heading for the U.S. are feeling the impact.
RADHIKA SRIVASTAVA, PASSENGER: Two agents checked everybody's hand luggage going through each item, taking out every separate item that was within the bags, going through in detail. This was after we cleared security.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The last hour on the flight we weren't going to be allowed to walk around, we had to stay in our seats with our seat belts on and we wouldn't be able to have the blankets or pillows or anything covering our laps.
MESERVE: Aviation security experts say as investigators learn more about the incident and the device used, additional steps could be taken.
GLENN SCHOEN, SECURITY EXPERT: If this was part of a larger plot, can we assume somewhere there is a master bombmaker who might be making a new generation of devices using different chemicals, using different technologies, using different detonator, perhaps, or different approach to how to use these devices. So, it is certainly possible we may see some significant changes and adjustments in the days ahead.
MESERVE (on camera): The TSA says that travelers may see more canine explosive detection teams, more behavior detection officers, things of that ilk at the airport. They say there are many more security steps being taken that can't be seen.
Their advice right now, get to the airport early and bring your patience - Drew, back to you.
GRIFFIN: Wow, Jeanne! That's all I can say. Wow! A lot of headaches ahead.
We were attempting to talk with a photojournalist from our Ft. Myers affiliate who just flew in from London. We had him on the line but he had to go to catch his next flight to head down to Florida. We'll try to reach him later and talk to him about his experience as he came back from London today, the day after this attempted attack.
And after this attempted attack, what is the mood in Detroit on the day after? Plus, the man who says he helped take down this suspect. He's going to tell his story and you will hear the entire exclusive interview right here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRIFFIN: He is the son of a prominent Nigerian banker, charged today with trying to destroy a plane and placing explosive device on an aircraft - two charges.
The 23-year-old man was subdued by passengers and crew yesterday aboard Northwest Flight 253. He was taken into custody when the plane landed in Detroit, about 20 minutes later. Passengers say there was a pop, like a firecracker, and then smoke rising from the lap of the suspect.
In Iran, signs the opposition has not been silenced. Riot police clashing with protesters today in the run-up to the Shiite Muslim holiday known as Ashura. The holiday is celebrated on Sunday and there are concerns more violence is possible.
Tomorrow that country will also mourn a recently deceased cleric who was a vocal critic of the government and a champion of the opposition movement.
And people in the nation's heartland are grabbing shovels today, digging out from that - a blustery storm, even as forecasters warned of blizzard conditions continue across the Northern Plains. Here's the states - North and South Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming, Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin - all of them under blizzard warnings.
Well, the suspect in the attempted bombing of Northwest Flight 253 was armed with PETN, an explosive that's related to nitroglycerin. That is according to the FBI. PETN has been around since World War I and can be stored for long periods of time without losing its effectiveness.
FBI agents recovered a syringe-like device from near the suspect's seat. It's believed to have been part of what he used to start a fire.
Martin Savidge joins us from Detroit's Municipal Airport with the latest on the investigation on this day after - Marty.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Drew, the suspect, Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab had his day in court, so to speak. It actually was the court that came to him in the form of federal authorities as he had his first court appearance in his hospital room.
He is actually in a hospital in Ann Arbor. He's still recovering as a result of the injuries he suffered attempting to set off that explosive device on board the airliner yesterday as it was attempting to land, and did successfully land, in Detroit.
The story has gone through a remarkable evolution over the last 24 hours or so. Initially, it was reported a passenger setting off fireworks on board of an airplane. Doesn't sound too sinister. Later, though, it quickly became apparent it was sinister. This was an attempted act of terrorism according to the White House. And now, we are beginning to find out that he used a rather sophisticated form of explosive, and one that is controlled, which would imply he had help, and there are indications that that help may have come from a group connected with al Qaeda and may be linked to the country of Yemen.
So, in just 24 hours we have gone a long way, and now major changes are occurring within the security system of airline transportation, both domestically in this country and likely to have impact far beyond the borders of this country.
But it still comes down to one simple event. Yesterday, final approach, Northwest Airlines 253, coming from Amsterdam into Detroit, when suddenly a passenger tries to detonate the device. They're far away from any federal authorities. They're far above the ground and all of the new laws and the billions of dollars that were spent on security. Instead, it really came down to the reaction of passengers and the training of the crew that came together to prevent a tragedy from happening.
And one of those people was Jasper Schuringa, a passenger just a few seats away who saw immediately what happened and reacted. He spoke exclusively to CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASPER SCHURINGA, HELPED SUBDUE TERROR SUSPECT: When I saw that the suspect, he was getting on fire, and I - you know, I freaked, of course. And without any hesitation, I just jumped over all the seats and I - I just jumped to the suspect, because I was thinking, you know, like, he's trying to blow up the plane.
And so, you know, I was trying to - to search his body for, you know, any - any explosives. And then I - I took some kind of object. There was already some melting and smoking out of him and I tried to - I tried to put out the fire. And then, when I did that, I was also restraining the suspect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: So, we can talk a great deal about what the ramifications will be in the future, we can talk a great deal about where the investigation will lead. A simple solution, though, was actually discovered by the people on the plane, and, by their quick action, probably saved a tragic circumstance from turning into a real disaster - Drew.
GRIFFIN: Martin Savidge from Detroit. Thank you, Martin.
We're actually going to hear the majority of that interview that our Fredricka Whitfield did exclusively with Jasper Schuringa. Let me set it up for you a little bit. This guy was coming over. He wanted to get to Miami on vacation. When we contacted him in Miami, he didn't really want to do the interview, but he did come into our studios and sit down for a bit with Fredricka to explain what happened.
He said he was sitting in 20J. The suspect was in 19A. So he had to go over four seats -four seats to jump over to where this man was. And here is that interview that Fredricka Whitfield did earlier this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHURINGA: Basically, you know, like I reacted on a bang. And then suddenly, like there was smoke piling up in the cabin and so people were screaming, "Fire, fire!" and the first thing we - like, we all did is to check where - where the fire was.
So - and then I saw the suspect, and he was - the (INAUDIBLE) on his seat. And so we...
WHITFIELD: So how many rows back were you or - ?
SCHURINGA: Sorry?
WHITFIELD: How many rows back - were you behind the suspect when you - when the smoke...
SCHURINGA: No. I was - I was on the right side of the plane, and the suspect was on the left, so there were quite some - some seats in between. So when I - when I saw that the suspect, he was getting on fire, and, you know, I freaked, of course. And without any hesitation, I just jumped over all the seats and I - I just jumped to the suspect, because I was thinking, you know, like, he's trying to blow up the plane. And so, you know, I was trying to - to search his body for, you know, any - any explosives. And then I - I took some kind of object. There was already some melting and smoking out of him and I tried to - I tried to put out the fire. And then, when I did that, I was also restraining the suspect.
And then the fire started beneath his - his seat. So with my hands and everything, you can see (ph) it's a little burned up. I - I put out the fire and then other passengers helped me as well. And, of course, I was screaming for water, water, because we really had to, you know, a fire in the plane is not that good, of course.
And so - but then, the - the fire was actually getting a little worse because what I did didn't extinguish the fire. So I grabbed the suspect out of the seat because if he was wearing any more explosives, you know, it would be very dangerous because he was almost on the fire.
And when this - when I grabbed him from the seat, the cabin crew came, and they - and they came with fire extinguishers and they - they got clear over the flames (ph), and just to be sure, I grabbed him with another attendant and we took him to first class and there we - we stripped him and contained him with handcuffs and we made sure he had no more weapons no more bombs on him.
WHITFIELD: And so, Jasper, when you saw - you talked about how something underneath the seat was on fire. Was - was something on fire on him or was it - did it appear to be the seat that he, you know, may have set on fire and then, as a result, he also burned as well?
SCHURINGA: Well, there - like he - he was - like he put something on fire that was hidden in his pants, and apparently he was dripping. So then, I think, like, you know, the liquid or anything like that, it dripped down on the - on the floor and two pillows got - like, two pillows got ignited. And -
But it went very quick and like we all are just reacting to the fire and everybody was panicking. So we...
WHITFIELD: Now tell me about him. Was he fighting you? Was he struggling? Did he just seem to, upon discovery, just kind of let it go and - and you all were able to...
SCHURINGA: No. He was - he was just very calm. He was shaking, though, but he didn't resist anything. And he was just sitting there. And he looked like a normal guy, as well, but, you know, it was just - just hard to - to believe that, you know, he was actually going to try - trying to blow up this plane.
WHITFIELD: Was there anything about him prior to that incident that ever made you look at him? Did you suspect anything? Did anything catch your attention about him?
SCHURINGA: No, nothing. Nothing, nothing. Absolutely nothing. So it was a big surprise, and when we heard the first explosion, people were just like looking around, like, you know, this is not good. What's going on? And then the first person shouted "Fire!" and then like I got to my sense and, OK, this is where I - So I try to...
WHITFIELD: So some of the passengers described it as hearing like a pop. What - what did you hear just prior to the - the smoke and the fire?
SCHURINGA: Yes. First it was a pop. And then like about 30 seconds later, the - the smoke started to - to fill up on the left side, beneath this - this person. And from that on, we just jumped and tried to save the plane. And we did, luckily.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: That was Fredricka Whitfield's exclusive interview with Jasper Schuringa, seen live on CNN just a couple of hours ago. He's the man who helped prevent this terror attack on Flight 253.
And his heroism and that of the crew did not go unnoticed by Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano. She released a statement saying that, "I am grateful to the passengers and crew aboard Northwest Flight 253 who reacted quickly and heroically to an incident that could have had tragic results." And she adds that the American people should continue their planned holiday travel, and, as always, be observant and aware of their surroundings and report any suspicious behavior or activity to law enforcement officials.
The tightening of security in airports around the globe was a wakeup call for a lot of passengers. Frances Townsend joins us again with more on the threat. And, Fran, I want to pick up where we left off and that is in Yemen. If indeed this guy got direction and possibly material from Yemen, how do we, the US and other Western countries, deal with trying to root out a terrorist threat that might be directing traffic from a country where we don't normally operate in?
FRANCES TOWNSEND, FORMER BUSH HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: Well, it's very difficult. We obviously have an embassy there, but it's been attacked at least twice, and there have been other attempts against our embassy there. We also know recently there was an - an assassination attempt against Prince Muhammad bin Nayef up in Saudi Arabia, the head of Saudi Internal Security, and that emanated out of Yemen.
We - we've had a whole history with Yemen and the counterterrorism world, most of it's not very good. There was the Cole bombing in 2000, as we've mentioned to our viewers. And so, there is this history where al Qaeda has been very aggressive and very active in Yemen.
The Yemeni government has at times shown a willingness to cooperate with international counterterrorism authorities, but not a capability. And so, John Brennan has traveled there, I know, during this administration, as I did during the last, to try and encourage them and then to try and give them additional capability. But I will tell you, this is a real, real battle. I can remember when Yemeni authorities took a group of terrorists into custody and more than 30 of them escaped, literally walked out the back door of a prison. And when you think about the Yemeni detainees in Guantanamo potentially being returned to Yemen, it's a tremendous problem.
GRIFFIN: There's also a developing here and we've seen in other recent cases of - of terrorism where you have families that are coming forward to warn about their youngster who - I don't know what you would call it, almost has been brainwashed by these radicals, have become these willing dupes, like this man who would basically commit suicide for a cause he probably adopted just a couple of months ago.
Is there a movement among parents to reach out to officials saying, please help us, you know, my kid is lost and he could be becoming one of these radicals?
TOWNSEND: Drew, there is a movement. Saudi officials encourage families to do this sort of thing inside Saudi Arabia, and recently in Northern Virginia a group of families of five young Pakistani men who disappeared came to American authorities, FBI officials, and reported their sons missing. Lo and behold, they were taken into custody on terrorism charges in Pakistan.
So this is actually a very important development where families say their sons have been misled, been brainwashed, and they tip off authorities to be on the lookout for these individuals. I actually think this is a very important and positive development.
GRIFFIN: OK. And - and just basically, you've seen this happen before, tightening security at airports. I guess it can get even tighter, although I'm not sure how, because we're standing in long lines already.
TOWNSEND: That's right, Drew, and I'm not sure tighter is the point. What you want are random measures, and - and you've seen Secretary Napolitano come out in the last 24 hours and said, tell the American people you're going to see tightening procedures, different procedures at different places around the world. Not every airport will be the same.
And that's important. The more random these measures are, the more randomly they're deployed, the more difficult it is for terrorists to understand exactly what to expect so they can plan to get through security. And so, I actually think the greater use of random measures around the world at international airports is probably the most effective thing we can hope for right now.
GRIFFIN: All right. Fran Townsend, who's been in that hot seat many times, thanks for joining us on this night.
TOWNSEND: Thanks, Drew.
GRIFFIN: And still ahead, a holiday homecoming at Ft. Drum for US soldiers who spent a year in Afghanistan and glad to be home.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I'm CNN Meteorologist Bonnie Schneider, tracking bad weather and lots of travel delays here on a Saturday evening.
We are definitely looking at snow hitting Minneapolis and Chicago, Chicago particularly affected by this storm. And then, as we head further to the east, we also have kind of a raw evening across New York City, with lots of rain coming in, temperature in the - in the 40s, but right through here, well into Northern New England, we are watching for freezing rain and ice, and that means all through areas of New Hampshire, Maine and Vermont tomorrow morning, you could be waking up to a very icy situation. So you'll want to be careful there.
But for those of you that are heading home after Christmas, or maybe you're just going on a vacation, wow, we have a lot of delays to tell you about. In Chicago, the delays at O'Hare are four hours and 15 minutes. That's incredible. We also have lengthy delays at New York's airports and Philadelphia, hour to four-hour delays, Drew. This is a tough evening for travel. We have a lot of inclement weather affecting major airports.
GRIFFIN: And, Bonnie, on top of all that, you can brace for more security at airports. The security rules are changing as we speak in the aftermath of that thwarted attack. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRIFFIN: As we continue our coverage of this story coming out of Detroit, the - the potential terrorist attack or terrorist attack on a US airliner, we're going to bring you back Thomas Fuentes, former FBI Assistant Director of International Operations and currently a CNN contributor.
And, Tom, I want to continue the conversation I had with Fran Townsend, kind of the evolution of where al Qaeda is taking its - its war, this terror that it's trying to do, with the idea of these handoff bombs, kind of finding a dupe or somebody that you could easily talk into handing a bomb, handing him instructions and seeing if he can pull this thing off. Is this a real and evolving threat to security officials as they try to deal with how to screen for these people?
THOMAS FUENTES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hi, Drew.
I don't know if it's evolving or just a continuing threat on the same theme. You know, much has been made about whether al Qaeda's playbook is changing, and I don't think the book is changing. I think just the plays that they call and given situations or individuals affiliated may call.
So, on the one hand, you may have aircraft being used as flying bombs, as in the 9/11 plot, but now the cockpits are fortified and some air marshals are employed to try to prevent access for someone else other than the crew to fly their plane. So, you've had plots where the planes were going to be exploded over oceans and all of the evidence, but also all of the debris would end up on the ocean floor with the exception of maybe a minimal number of things floating that could be found.
So, now, if you want to have the maximum impact that's intended, a terrorist group - their main play, their touchdown, is to terrify. And the best way to terrify is to create an event which is going to occur where they can have maximum gruesome media coverage of it. That would include a plane, if it can be crashed and explode on soil, on the ground, where the pieces are on fire and spread all over, possibly landing on a US residential neighborhood, having more casualties on the ground, that's the maximum intent. It will get the maximum coverage and have the results.
So I just see these attempts as variations on the same theme and that is to terrify the public one way or the other.
GRIFFIN: And in the war on terror, when you're trying to screen out these people, like - and we should mention, he is a suspect. The evidence seems pretty clear. He's not spending a lot of time in a terrorist training camp. He's not apparently being indoctrinated in some kind of elaborate multi-pronged attack.
I call him a one-off. He's basically a guy that may have gone and got a little direction and then - and then he's out the door to see what he can do. They're difficult to find, aren't they?
FUENTES: Well, in a sense, yes. But also, he's educated. He studied Mechanical Engineering, so he would have a head start on being able to read directions, read internet guidelines on how to create a device and he would - he would need some assistance, obviously, in obtaining chemicals such as PETN or the detonators or the other equipment necessary.
But certainly someone with an education, and his case, it appears that he comes from a family with means. The means to travel, to attend exclusive schools in London, to go to other countries. This is someone who has the education, the capability, the financial resources to pursue his intent if he wants to.
Also, Drew, you covered the story of the Toronto 18 who were convicted in 2006 for their terror plot in Canada. The leader of that, who is going to be the chief bomb maker, was also a student of mechanical engineering...
GRIFFIN: Absolutely.
FUENTES: ... and created a video showing how to explode a device by making a telephone call.
GRIFFIN: Absolutely.
FUENTES: So having individuals with these capabilities, education and resources is - just adds to the challenge.
GRIFFIN: All right. Tom Fuentes in San Francisco. Thanks. Much more ahead this evening as we continue to learn more about the young Nigerian charged now with trying to blow up an airliner on Christmas Day and how he planned to do that.
