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New Flight 253 Scare; Terror Suspect Got Past Screeners; Tighter Air Security Measures; White House Condemns Deadly Clashes in Iran; A Look at the Impact of Clashes in Iran

Aired December 27, 2009 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Same flight, same airport, new fear. Two days after the attempted bombing aboard Flight 253, a new emergency is declared aboard the same flight today.

The man accused of Friday's attack is released from the hospital. What we're learning about Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, and how passengers and crewmembers restrained him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASPER SCHURINGA, HELPED SUBDUE TERROR SUSPECT: I freaked, of course, and without any hesitation, I just jumped over all the seats and jumped to the suspects, because I was thinking (EXPLETIVE DELETED) he is trying to blow up the plane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: An exclusive interview with a man who is being called a hero on Flight 253.

Also ahead...

(VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Violent clashes in Iran. Multiple deaths and hundreds of injuries in some of the worst violence since June.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM where the news unfolds live this Sunday, December 27th. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, in for Don Lemon this evening.

So, with emotions running high after Friday's attack on Flight 253, there was another incident aboard the same flight today.

Here is what we know right now: investigators are now calling today's incident non-serious. They say a passenger became disruptive. Security teams met the plane when it landed in Detroit, but they found no explosives. They now say the disruptive passenger was a legitimate businessman who posed no security threat at all.

Meanwhile, the man accused of staging a botched attack on that same flight two days ago, Christmas Day, has been released from the hospital after being treated for burns. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab has been moved to a secure undisclosed location. So, on this very busy Sunday, our reporters are following the investigation into Friday's attack, and, of course, today's incident as well. Martin Savidge is in Detroit, Michigan; and Nic Robertson is in London; Ed Henry is with the president of the United States in Hawaii.

First, let's go to Martin.

Does an all-clear on today's incident mean travel is back to normal at Detroit Metropolitan Airport?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It does indeed, Fredricka. I mean, it was -- it's over. However, it has to be said that it was a very scary three hours or so that transpired here in Detroit. It was deja vu all over again, to use that quote, and it was not in a good way.

It was just afternoon today when Flight 253, the same airline and the same destinations coming from Amsterdam to Detroit, the pilots radio in, they've got a problem, and they ask for emergency crews to meet them when they get on the ground. That triggered a whole series of alarms that went all the way up to the White House.

Once the plane landed safely, it was immediately surrounded by emergency vehicles. And then began a long drawn-out drama to figure out what exactly had happened on board. Eventually, word came from officials that there had been a passenger that had been verbally combative, that had been acting suspiciously during the latter part of the flight, going up and down, spending great deals of time in the bathroom. All of that very reminiscent to what had happened on Christmas Day when there was an attempted act of terrorism that took place.

This time, nothing like it. Still, every precaution was taken. At one point, all the baggage on the aircraft was lined up on the taxi way, and it was carefully inspected by drug-sniffing and by bomb- sniffing dogs I should say.

And eventually the all-clear was sounded and the passengers were allowed to go on their way, although their flight had been greatly delayed.

But as you point out, it also comes on the same day that the suspect from Friday, Christmas Day's attack, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, had been released from the hospital. He had been under guard, but being treated for the third-degree burns he had received while attempting to carry out and explode that explosive device. He was free, but officials would not say anything more other than he was turned over to the custody of U.S. Marshals, and he is now being held somewhere in a secure facility, presumably some sort of federal facility.

There is expected to be a hearing tomorrow as authorities want to get a DNA sample from him. So far, they have not said why.

Fredricka, a very difficult day here.

WHITFIELD: Very difficult. Very tough for a lot of travelers in and out of Detroit as well.

Thanks so much, Martin Savidge, in Detroit.

So, the president has been keeping close tabs on this latest security incident today, just as he has been on what happened Christmas Day.

Our senior White House correspondent Ed Henry is in Honolulu where the president is on vacation.

What's being said?

ED HENRY, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, it's interesting. As Marty noted, the White House jumped on this almost immediately to try and perhaps reassure the public, but also show that the president was being briefed on the situation that was unfolding earlier today in Detroit. White House spokesman Bill Burton saying the president was quickly briefed by one of his top security aides about the unfolding situation, which relatively quickly, short order you saw it turned out according to federal officials to not really be anywhere near as serious as to what happened on Christmas Day.

That's why the focus from the White House today has really been more on that first incident, what they initially called an "attempted terror attack" that ultimately failed.

Today, for the first time, we heard from the Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano saying that the president has ordered two reviews. She said that basically, on Christmas Day, the system worked, raising some Republican eyebrows. Republicans don't feel that the system did work. But Janet Napolitano was talking about the system working once the attempted bomb detonated, that the passengers jumped in, the crew on the Northwest flight seemed to handle it well.

But she did acknowledge that there are still questions that are being raised about what happened before the incident. First of all, she said there is a review into how this gentleman, the suspect, even got on the plane in the first place on Christmas Day.

And secondly, the president has now ordered a review as well as to how the suspect was able to get these chemicals on the plane. The president announcing these reviews in part because some of his fellow Democrats on Capitol Hill already saying they'll be holding hearings very early in 2010 once Congress comes back to session to get some answers to these big questions about how all of this happened.

You have Senator Joe Lieberman, for example, chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee saying today on one of the Sunday shows, that basically, it was somewhat some luck that this bomb did not detonate correctly. And that's what saved so many lives, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Ed Henry in Honolulu traveling with the president -- thanks so much.

Well, the Department of Homeland Security has released a statement about today's incident on that Northwest Airlines flight landing in Detroit, without incident in the end. Here is the statement. "A Nigerian national was removed from the flight and interviewed by the FBI. The individual's behavior is due to legitimate illness, though this does not appear to be a security incident, in an abundance of caution, the aircraft was fully screened." That coming from the Department of Homeland Security.

So, this investigation now into the Christmas Day attempted terror attack stretches to Britain.

CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is in London where the suspect once lived and went to school.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, the police have just suspended in the past hour their searches of the apartment building behind me. This is the second day of searches. They're going to continue tomorrow.

And you might ask: why is it taking so long? To give you an example, in a previous search of terror suspects, police actually had to take down a full ceiling and find strapped in a hidden location to a beam of the ceiling in the apartment a USB thumb drive, if you will, that plugged into a computer. When they discovered that, it gave them an absolute trove of information on that terror investigation.

So, we understand it's that level of slow, meticulous investigation that's going on here. The fact that it's suspended for a second night does indicate that it's not producing any hot leads at the moment that would cause officers to work through the night, chasing down a potential eminent terror threat.

We're also learning other interesting details about Abdulmutallab. We've heard from his high school teacher who described him as a very devout Muslim student at his high school, but also said, in the classroom debate on the Taliban, he was the only one in the classroom who debated the issue pro for the Taliban. Everyone else in the class was against the Taliban. It does sort of make him stand out a little.

What we have learned from his family when he completed his university course here in the summer of 2008, they were worried about how he was being potentially radicalized, falling in with the wrong group of people, wrong group of friends here in Great Britain. So, those concerns.

We've also heard when we talked to the British Home Office today, running down British media reports that he had applied for a visa here in the past year, and that visa had been turned down on the grounds that he had applied for a bogus college course. The Home Office here refused to deny this. They wouldn't knock the report down. It does seem to indicate that there may be some truth in that, that he had applied to come back to Britain and was turn down by the Home Office. Not entirely clear yet why.

But it does appear from the length of the investigation going on behind me and from all these other indicating factors, that he may well have been somebody that the British security services were also aware of and had on some kind of a list, Fredricka. WHITFIELD: All right. Nic Robertson joining us from London -- thanks for that.

President Obama is monitoring the investigation into the botched bombing attempt on Northwest flight 253 while on vacation in Hawaii and he's getting regular briefings from investigators.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I'd say the two priorities that the president has right now, first and foremost, insuring the safety and security of the American people and doing everything that we can and continue to do everything that we can to make sure that that's happening. And secondly, David, he's asked for two different reviews to be conducted, which you heard Secretary Napolitano mention. First, digging into this listing -- the listing procedures that she talked about, figuring out if the information that the U.S. government had was used properly, but also to go back and look at the protocols for how listing is done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, we're going to try to connect all the dots in a special hour of coverage, "Terror on Flight 253." That's beginning tonight 8:00 p.m. Eastern. CNN's Drew Griffin looks about what investigators are learning about the suspect, his possible ties with terror groups, and the impact that his actions is having on travel around the world.

So, how did the ex -- I mean, how did the Christmas Day Northwest Air terror suspect get on the jetliner with alleged explosive material? That's what officials are trying to figure out right now. We'll discuss that question and more with a former FBI agent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pretty much every possible negative experience I could have ever imagined has happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And the impact the botched terror attempt is having on so many travelers this busy holiday travel season.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: If you can't carry a big bottle of shampoo on an airplane or a tube of toothpaste, how did the suspect in Friday's attempted terror attack on the Northwest Airliner get past security with a syringe possibly containing an explosive material? It's a question many are asking.

And today on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION," Candy Crowley took the question right to Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, CNN'S STATE OF THE UNION) CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Here is someone whose father came to the U.S. embassy and said, "I am worried about his ties. I'm worried that he's becoming increasingly militant." He's on a list, but somehow no one looks at him more closely apparently than any other passenger.

Is there some way -- I mean, it seems to me there's all these computer lists and this one has suspected ties and that one, and this is the no-fly list. Is there not some way to merge this information so that he would have popped up some place?

JANET NAPOLITANO, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Well, there's no suggestion that -- he was on what is called a "TIDE list," which has a half a million-plus names on it. And there is no suggestion that that was not shared information. The issue was: was there enough information to move him to the more specific list, which would require additional examination or indeed being on no-fly status. And to date, it does not appear that there was any such information to move him from that TIDE list, which was shared and everybody had it, but to a more specific list which would require different types of screening at the airport.

CROWLEY: So, not even a father coming in knowing what his son has been up to and reporting this to the U.S. embassy isn't enough? I mean, what puts you on the watch list, if that isn't enough?

NAPOLITANO: Well, indeed, you can -- let's not get into that, because, for one thing, we need to ascertain exactly who said what to whom and when. But also, you have to understand that you need information that is specific and credible if you're going to actually bar someone from air travel.

He was on a general list, which over a half million people, everybody had access to it. But there was not the kind of credible information in the sense of derogatory information that would move him up that list.

Now, one of the things I think we will be doing over the next weeks is really looking at those watch list procedures in light of this occurring and saying, "OK, do those need to be changed?" They have been in place for a number of years. Do they need to be adjusted in light of this event?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, we're going to continue this line of questioning with an expert in security matters. Thomas Fuentes is a CNN contributor and former FBI assistant director of international operations. He's joining us now from San Francisco.

So, the more you absorb the information that is being floated about that the father of this suspect raised a red flag with the U.S. embassy. He's on a grand list, as you heard from Napolitano, but not a more specific list. Does this -- does this frustrate you that there is information that says something is awry with this person, yet they're not netted before they can potentially endanger a lot of people?

TOM FUENTES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No, Fredricka. I think Secretary Napolitano has a point, that the issue really is what exactly did the father say when he reported to the U.S. embassy. The nature of the information that he provided would determine initially what list to put him on. He did not indicate apparently that there was a terrorist act that he was aware of, or a terrorist plot that he thought his son was a part of, just that he was starting to essentially think bad thoughts and had the potential of doing something bad as a result of being radicalized.

Well, unfortunately, there is hundreds of thousands of people thinking those bad thoughts on a worldwide basis right now. And that's a sad reality.

WHITFIELD: Yes. So, even if on a broader list, that you're even on a list would seem that you would be scrutinized a little bit differently than those who are not on a list. But that didn't happen, particularly because we're hearing that there is evidence that he had this chemical PETN on his person in some way, and he also had a syringe. And a syringe is something you can see when you go through a scanning machine.

FUENTES: Well, a syringe is plastic. If it was hidden within carry- on luggage with other items, it may not have come to the notice of a screener. You know, you have people with diabetes that are carrying syringes on aircraft. So, he wouldn't be the first person to be carrying a syringe in carry-on bags.

As far as the PETN, it's a white crystalline powdery substance. It's not detectible by metal detectors. So, if he only went through that routine screening, it would not come up, if he was even carrying it.

And as I said earlier today, you know, there is always the possibility of other dozens of people who have access to an aircraft before flight. The maintenance crews, the cleaning crews, the caterers -- a lot of people have access to the inside of the aircraft, to the outside, to the cargo hold, to the engines that could do damage do an airplane.

WHITFIELD: So, you could -- you could still see -- you could still see potentially that there might be more than one person involved here, even though, so far, investigators have said that it appears that he was the lone wolf?

FUENTES: Well, that is -- that is a concern and that's always a concern. Did someone else place a small bag and hide it under the blankets in the overhead bin before the passengers got on? Did someone else carry on that bag and give it to him during the flight? There's a number of possibilities. It's not always going to be certain that it's exactly what it appears, that he had that hidden somehow either in his underwear or strapped to his leg or some other manner such as that.

WHITFIELD: And that he was traveling on three continents during this journey. He started in Lagos, Nigeria, then would transfer and make a connection there in Amsterdam before making their way to the United States.

Would you -- have you entertained the possibility that perhaps someone may have handed him -- handed off some materials to him during, potentially, the transfer of flights, maybe in Amsterdam?

FUENTES: Well, that's certainly possible. You have radicalized individuals throughout the world. The Netherlands and Amsterdam experienced an incident a couple of years ago where an 18-year-old homegrown Netherlands boy murdered a movie producer who was making movies criticizing some aspect of Islam. So, you have radicalized individuals, you have sympathizers, you have al Qaeda wannabes, if not actual al Qaeda members throughout the world. And, of course, we've seen that throughout Europe's major cities.

So, he certainly could have had someone help him out either in Amsterdam, either at the airport, or it could have been in Lagos, or it could have been in any of the number of other countries.

WHITFIELD: So, it sounds like your gut is that he couldn't have possibly acted alone.

FUENTES: Well, no, I don't think he acted alone. PETN is not something that you can go home and cook in your bathtub. I mean, he -- he would have probably had to have somebody give him assistance in supplying him with that particular substance. That's a very potent, high-grade military-type explosive, similar to nitroglycerin.

WHITFIELD: OK.

FUENTES: And it's hard to believe that he would have done that, even had access to something like that by himself. But we're talking about a young man from a wealthy family. Certainly, he has the means to travel all over the world.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

FUENTES: To meet other people who have a great deal of money, go to exclusive schools, travel to a number of countries. So, it certainly would have been easier for him than many other poor kids.

WHITFIELD: OK. Tom Fuentes, thanks so much -- from San Francisco.

FUENTES: You're welcome.

WHITFIELD: A look at the top stories now.

Stepped up security measures for air travelers following the failed attempt to blow up that Northwest jetliner on Christmas Day. You can expect longer screening lines and wait times for days to come. But TSA official says the additional security measures may not be so evident to all travelers.

And legendary civil rights attorney Percy Sutton has died. Sutton served with the Tuskegee Airmen during World War II before becoming a lawyer. He represented Malcolm X and later became a prominent New York politician and businessman. Civil rights leader, the Reverend Al Sharpton, calls Sutton's accomplishments extraordinary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER: Percy Sutton was a pioneer. He was the quintessential 20th century African-American. No African- American spanned the breadth of discipline and areas of life like Percy Sutton. We've had many that led greatly in one area. We've never had one that led greatly in so many different areas in one lifetime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Percy Sutton was 89.

(VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Violent clashes, as you see here, in Iran today, as security forces battled anti-government protesters. Police say several people were killed, but not by security forces. More than 300 protesters were arrested. It happened during a major Muslim religious holiday.

Perhaps you're flying home after the holidays? Your trip back may be more of a hassle than you expected. We'll tell you why -- and how you can prepare.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: If you're traveling air travel, you know this already. You're seeing longer screening lines and heightened security at most airports.

CNN's Kara Finnstrom is at Los Angeles International Airport.

How are things going there?

KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fredricka.

We're actually in the international terminal here at LAX. This is the area where passengers are getting ready to board their flights and they're getting ready to go through those extra security measures.

And joining us live here, we want to bring in Wally Tippitte. He actually was on his first flight of the day, earlier this morning, from the Washington, D.C. area. You experienced some extra security on that flight as well.

WALLY TIPPITTE, AIRLINE PASSENGER: Yes. I experienced a little bit of extra security. I had some hand lotion in my bag, and they straight away took it out.

FINNSTROM: Now, you said that you're flying into Sidney, Australia, tonight. You did allow yourself some extra time because you anticipated that it may take a little longer to get through security. But you say that's a good thing. Tell us your thoughts on that. TIPPITTE: Well, I think it's a very good thing because of the fact that everything that's happening and what's going on. We need to take the screening measures to make sure people are safe and secure.

FINNSTROM: All right. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll let you get on to your flight.

Fredricka, U.S. government officials are saying that everyone should anticipate spending a little extra time here at the airport today because of those extra security measures, whether they're traveling domestically or internationally.

Behind me here, you can see one of the X-ray screening machines. And the most visible changes in security that we have heard about from passengers today have been here on the international side. Passengers say that their bags are getting more heavily screened, and also, get going through some hand searches. Also, more pat-downs of passengers, searches of the actual passengers themselves.

And some of these passengers on these international flights tell us that during the last hour of their flight, when they would either be approaching or over U.S. soil, they have actually been asked to stay in their seats, not to have anything on their laps, and pretty much to remain in place until that plane landed.

Now, just below us here is the area where passengers are coming off of international flights into the U.S. and here's what few of those passengers say they experienced.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Coming into the plane in Mexico City, they search all of our bags individually, the security guys. And then they searched us like a body search, each one of us, the three of us. But I assumed that that was the only thing that happened in this particular flight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the last time we came in, they had to make sure that we were seated, had nothing on our lap, had no pillows or blankets. It was bit strange I thought, but I think a precaution for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FINNSTROM: TSA officials say that they are trying to keep things unpredictable. That's the best type of security. So, they say passengers should not expect to see the same things on every flight or at every airport.

And, you know, Fredricka, the sentiment that we heard from Wally Tippitte a little bit earlier is really what we've been hearing from everyone here today. It's a little bit of an inconvenience, it's a little more extra time for them, but because of what happened on Friday, most everyone we have spoken with seems to be very understanding of that extra security, and actually, they say they want to see it. Reporting right here at LAX, Kara Finnstrom, back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Kara, thanks so much.

All right. Overseas violence and death in the streets of Iran. I'll speak live with an Iranian analyst who is a professor at Rutgers University. He'll offer his take on today's anti-government protests.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: A look at our top stories right now. President Obama is ordering security reviews after last week's botched terror attack on a Northwest Airlines plane. The reviews will focus on airport security procedures and how terror watch lists are used. The suspect was on a broad watch list of more than 500,000 names since last month.

Meantime, there is step-upped security measures for air travelers following the failed attempt to blow up that jetliner on Christmas day. You can expect longer screening lines and wait times, but TSA official says the additional security measures may not be so evident to all travelers.

In Pakistan, five people were killed and 81 wounded when a suicide bomber blew himself up outside a Shiite mosque. It happened in the capital of Pakistan-administered Kashmir.

The White House is condemning today's deadly clashes in Iran. Several anti-government protesters were killed as they battled police. More than 300 demonstrators were arrested.

Our Reza Sayia has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REZA SAYIA, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: This turned out to be one of the deadliest days in Iran since the dispute elections on June 12th. Among the dead, according to an opposition web site, and this could be the biggest development of the day, was the nephew of opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi, who according to the web site, died in Revolution Square on Sunday. Iran's state-funded Press TV citing reports that the young man killed in Revolution Square was not Mir Hossein Mousavi's nephew.

Meantime, let's show you some dramatic video that really illustrates how intense these protests have gotten. This is amateur video showing a group of protesters surrounding what appears to be a police van, smashing it up, and then dragging out what looks like a horrified driver. This was not an isolated incident. More video showing protesters setting fire to the besieged headquarters. Clashes, according to witnesses, lasting throughout the day and into the night.

Also reports of clashes in cities like Esbahan (ph), Madshat (ph), Tabriz and Irat (ph).

All of this taking place on a major religious holiday of Ashura, the day Shia Muslims commemorate the martyrdom of their prophet Imam Hossein (ph). Sunday in Iran marks the seventh day after the passing of Ayatollah Montazeri as well, the dissident cleric, who was a huge figure in the opposition movement, who passed away last week. Symbolism and martyrdom are extremely significant in Shia Islam. On Sunday we saw the opposition movement use martyrdom and symbolism to demonstrate against what they call an unjust regime.

Reza Sayia, CNN, at the desk in Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: So what does the lasting impact on today's clash between protesters and police in Iran? Let's bring in Hooshang Amirahmadi in New York. As a professor at Rutgers University, he is an expert on Iran and also the founder and President of the American-Iranian Council.

Good to see you, Professor.

HOOSHANG AMIRAHMADI, FOUNDER, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN-IRANIAN COUNCIL & PROFESSOR, RUTGERS UNIVERISTY: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: What do you read into -- what is at the root of these violent clashes? Is it indeed the Ashura, or is it indeed the seventh day after the passing of the cleric?

AMIRAHMADI: Both of these events have created the opportunity. But the roots go back to the fact that the Iranian people are increasingly unhappy with the way their life is being managed by this damaged republic. It's not just a matter of democracies. It's a matter of economic mismanagement, of political mismanagement, of the fact they have also mismanaged the international relations with the United States and beyond. So the Iranian people are increasingly --believe that their future is at stake here, and that that future is very bleak to say the least.

WHITFIELD: As you mentioned, the people are increasingly unhappy, but it also seems they're increasingly emboldened to speak out against the leadership, against the government like we haven't seen in a long time.

AMIRAHMADI: That is very true. In fact, when you are unhappy and you have no choice but to protest, then you have to do it. I think that's what they are trying to do. I believe the political situation in the Islamic Republic is getting increasingly more critical, and the headache for the regime is increasingly expanding. And I think the time is coming to a point where the regime had to make a decision as to whether to continue with the way it has managed the country or to open up to a larger population of Iranians and experts and professionals who could do a better job.

I think unfortunately, however, the way things go, I cannot see that opening, at least in the short-term. And I think more violence will follow, and that the regime, I think, increasingly is going to have to decide to suppress the population even further. And that will really bring the regime to a point where it those make a serious decision, whether to go for more dictatorship, to close the society completely, or to give up. The alternative to that would be the violence that we see, and that is not sustainable.

WHITFIELD: If you're saying all of this could be escalated even further, are you seeing this kind of level of protest, this level of conflict is also sort of a battle cry to try and get other countries involved in this? Or do you think this is the type of case where only Iran can handle this?

AMIRAHMADI: Well, the fact is that obviously this is an Iranian problem, and the problem of the Iranian people with their regime. I think increasingly, the Iranian people understand that what has happened in Iran, it has happened to Iran domestically and internally and so...

WHITFIELD: To what extent, then shore, the U.S. be involved? To what extent?

AMIRAHMADI: I think -- I certainly -- Washington must condemn in the strongest possible term the abuse of human rights and the lawlessness there, and advocate democracy and human rights very strongly.

At the same time, I think Washington also has to take a second leg to this approach. There has to be another approach to it. And that is to make sure that the struggle in Tehran does not in fact jeopardize the American interests with the Islamic Republic. At the stake are the nuclear issue, the terrorism issue, the peace in the Mideast and the larger issues of the Middle East security and stability.

So while the U.S. has to be extremely concerned about human rights and defend human rights and democracy in Iran, it must also put its own problems on the table with the Islamic Republic. and particularly this is true because the outcome of the situation in Iran is completely uncertain. We really don't know who is going to win at the end of the day. And we may end up with a regime that is even harsher toward the United States than we have so far witnessed in Tehran.

WHITFIELD: All right. We'll have to leave it there.

AMIRAHMADI: We have to make sure that we are on the right track.

WHITFIELD: Professor at Rutgers University, Hooshang Amirahmadi, thank you so much, joining us from New York, and also the founder and President of the American-Iranian Council. Appreciate your time.

AMIRAHMADI: My pleasure.

WHITFIELD: All right. The big question now, as it pertains to this investigation into what took place in Detroit on Christmas day, investigators are trying to ascertain did the suspect have ties to al Qaeda. We'll hear from national security analyst, Peter Bergen, and former CIA director, John McLaughlin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: One focus in the investigation into the Christmas day attempted terror attack on a Detroit-bound airliner, did the suspect act alone? Today on CNN's "State of the Union," Candy Crowley interviewed our national security analyst, Peter Bergen, and former CIA director, John McLaughlin, about concerns the Nigerian suspect has links to al Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: The big question is we had heard about how al Qaeda was being dismantled, and we had ruined their leadership and they were, you know, dispersed. Do you think this has al Qaeda marks on it, and are they making a comeback?

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, FORMER CIA DEPUTY DIRECTOR: Well, it certainly feels that way, candy. This man had been in London, where there is frequent evidence of recruitment by al Qaeda, al Qaeda-related people. He claims to have been in touch with Yemenis. And there is a strong LKL movement there. I think it's a strong exaggeration to say al Qaeda has been weakened to the point where we don't have to worry about it anymore. That's true of a conventional enemy, if you're talking about something like the former Soviet Union. When it was weakened, we could stop worrying. When a terrorist group is weakened -- remember, every time you attack a terrorist group, it doesn't necessarily weaken them, it just changes them. So what they have done, in the last two or three years, is now change their tactics. They are now dispersed. They have safe havens of sorts in the tribal areas of Pakistan. One growing I think in Yemen. In Somalia, I think it can be claimed that they have a safe haven of sorts, people related to al Qaeda.

So we're dealing now with a much more difficult to contain and attack movement. So there are many places where a person can be radicalized, instructed, and propelled into a terrorist act. We don't know yet whether this individual fits that mold, but it has that feeling to it.

CROWLEY: Does it have the same feeling to you? Are there signs that you add up and go al Qaeda?

PETER BERGEN, NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. I absolutely agree with everything John has said. I think there was a recent terrorist attack that we should look at pretty carefully. Prison Muhammad, the senior counterterrorism official in the Saudi kingdom, long a target of al Qaeda, he narrowly escaped being assassinated by a man concealing in his underwear a PETN bomb. PETN is exactly the same explosive that was used in the Detroit plot. It's quite an unusual explosive. It was also used in al Qaeda's attempt to bring down an American airlines plane back in December of 2001, the so-called shoe bomber, Richard Reid. And in the case of the Prince Niaf (ph) assassination attempt, this guy originated in Yemen.

As John has indicated, Yemen is probably -- I think is probably the second most important place in the world right now for an al Qaeda presence. Very similar to Afghanistan, there is a civil war going on. It's a very poor country. The government doesn't control it. Bin Laden's family, of course, comes from Yemen. The USS Cole attack was directed from Yemen. We've seen multiple attacks, attempted attacks on the American embassy there. Al Qaeda has a strong foothold in Yemen. And the fact that this guy has said that he got the device in Yemen I think just speaks for itself. I think that's very plausible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: So as it pertains to that same flight, they're calling him a hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASPER SCHURINGA, DUTCH TOURIST: I freaked, of course. And without any agitation, I just jumped over all the seats and I jumped to the suspect. Because I was thinking (EXPLETE DELETED), he is trying to blow up the plane.

WHITFIELD: A Dutch tourist takes action to save his fellow passengers. Our interview with Jasper Schuringa.

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WHITFIELD: Jasper Schuringa was a passenger onboard that Christmas day, flight 253. He leaped over seats to get to the terror suspect and actually helped stop the attack he says. I spoke with him yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHURINGA: I reacted on the bang. And then suddenly, there was smoke in the cabin, and people were screaming, "Fire! Fire!" The first thing we did was to check where the fire was. And then I saw the suspect, and he was trailing (ph) on the seat.

WHITFIELD: So how many rows back were you?

SCHURINGA: Sorry?

WHITFIELD: How many rows back were you? Were you behind the suspect when the smoke...

SCHURINGA: No, I was on the right side of the plane and the suspect was on the left, so there were quite some seats in between. When I saw that suspect he was getting on fire, and I freaked, of course, and I without agitation, I jumped over the seats and I jumped to the suspect because I was thinking, he is trying to blow up the plane. And so I was trying to search his body for any explosives. And then I took some kind of object, it was already melting and smoking, out of him, and I tried to put out the fire. And then when I did that I was also restraining the suspect. And then the fire started beneath his seat, so with my hands and everything -- you can see it's a little burned up -- I put out the fire. And then other passengers helped me as well. And, of course, I was screaming for water, water, because fire in the plane is not that good, of course.

So -- but then the fire was actually getting a little worse because what I did, it did not extinguish the fire, and so I grabbed the suspect out of the seat because if he was wearing more explosives, it would be very dangerous because he was almost on fire. And when I grabbed him from the seat, the chemical came -- and they came with fire extinguishers. And they got clear of all the flames. And just to be sure, like, I grabbed another attendant and we took him to First Class and there we striped him and contained him with handcuffs and we made sure he had no more weapons, no more bombs on him.

WHITFIELD: And, Jasper, when you saw -- you talk about how something underneath the seat was on fire. Was something on fire on him, or did it appear to be the seat that he, you know, may have set on fire and then, as a result, he also burned as well?

SCHURINGA: Well, he was -- like he put something on fire that was hidden in his pants, and apparently he was dripping. I think the liquid or anything like, it dripped down on the floor, and two pillows got -- like two pillows got ignited. It went very quick. We all just were reacting to the fire and everybody was panicking so we...

WHITFIELD: Now, tell me about him. Was he fighting you? Was he struggling? Did he just seem to, upon discovery, just kind of let it go and you all were able to...

SCHURINGA: No, he was just very calm. He was shaking, but he did not resist anything. He was just sitting there. He looked like a normal guy as well. But it was just hard to believe that he was actually going to try to blow up the plane.

WHITFIELD: Was there anything about him, prior to that incident, that ever made you look at him? Did you suspect anything? Did anything catch your attention about him?

SCHURINGA: No, nothing. Nothing. Nothing. It was a big surprise. When we heard the first explosion, people were looking around like this is not good, what is going on? And then the first person shouted, "Fire." And then I got to my senses and thought, OK, this is wrong.

WHITFIELD: Some of the passengers described it as hearing like a pop. What did you hear just prior to the smoke and the fire?

SCHURINGA: First, it was like a pop, and about 30 seconds later, the smoke started to fill up on the left side beneath this person. And then from that on, we just jumped and tried to save the plane. We did, luckily.

WHITFIELD: It sounds like you had an incredible response there, very quick. You think about international flights, often times, when you get close to that decent, somewhere within that last hour on a trans- Atlantic flight, many people have been sleeping and you are groggy. When you heard the pop, when you heard people talking about the smoke, how quick was it to actually react, or was there a moment where you said, it really must be nothing?

SCHURINGA: No, I reacted directly. I didn't think -- when you hear a pop on the plane, you are awake, trust me. I did not jump, I didn't think. I just went over there to try and save the plane. (END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: How are you feeling about the economy? We get a fresh read of optimism come Tuesday. The conference board releases its consumer confidence index. Most economists expect the number to bump up. It is one of the few economic signs that we'll have in the final days of the year before 2010.

And the gift buying may be behind you, but this is one of the busiest shopping weeks of the year. Retailers are putting their hopes in post-holiday bargain hunters. Most won't post their sales until next month actually. The National Retail Federation is estimating that there may be a 1 percent drop in overall holiday spending this year.

Coming up in the 8:00 eastern hour, we are going to have a much more comprehensive review of the security problems involving air travel, all that we have seen since Christmas day, including today.

And for now, weather is also a major obstacle for so many people trying to get there still.

Bonnie Schneider is in the Severe Weather Center.

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's really, Fredricka, the last remnants of the big storm that brought us all the inclement weather over Christmas. And, yes, it's taking a while to leave. We would like it to leave so everybody can get going for this holiday week. You may have the whole week off, all the way from Christmas to New Years.

(WEATHER REPORT)

WHITFIELD: That is good to hear. Thanks so much, Bonnie Schneider, appreciate that.

SCHNEIDER: Sure.

WHITFIELD: Much more straight ahead here on CNN. The Detroit terror suspect, you've heard he was on a watch list, right? There are four apparent lists. So what are the differences? What does it mean for monitoring suspicious persons? Richard Quest and Drew Griffin tackle this next hour.

And then at 8:00 Eastern --

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