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Nancy Grace
Grandmother Cindy Tangles With Attorney in Deposition
Aired December 31, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, the desperate search for 2-year-old Florida girl Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. Manner of death, homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light- colored hair, the killer duct taping, then placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell. After convincing a Florida judge she`s too emotionally fragile to testify, Cindy Anthony shows she`s anything but fragile while giving sworn testimony. It`s all on video. Tonight, part two, grandmother Cindy Anthony on the hot seat under oath.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Casey would stay over with -- over at the baby-sitter`s, over at Zanny`s, would they pack a bag for Caylee?
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Casey always packed a bag for Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So she had an understanding or knowledge when she was going to be staying over, and she would take clothes from the house.
ANTHONY: Casey always had a bag for Caylee, no matter where she went. If Casey and I or Caylee and I went to the store, we always had a bag for Caylee with extra clothes and diapers and things like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many days` worth of clothes would have been in the bag?
ANTHONY: Probably two, as a normal thing. I used to do that for my kids. Even if I just went to my mom`s for the day, I`d pack two outfits because you never know what kids are going to...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there ever...
ANTHONY: ... get into.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Was there ever an extended period of time, more than, say, two days, that Casey was outside of the house with Caylee - - I`m sorry, that Casey and Caylee were outside of the house with Zanny prior to the disappearance?
ANTHONY: Casey was never -- it was never consecutive two days. It was only one day at a time before June.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So there was never a period of two, three, four, five...
ANTHONY: No. I`m saying one to two times a month.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you. So there was never an extended...
ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... period of time as we go along that she`s out of the house for a week at a time.
ANTHONY: No, not prior to June 16th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zanny`s curling iron and movies -- where did those come from, and who gave them to you?
ANTHONY: I remember about a year ago, Casey -- actually, it wasn`t a curling iron, it was a hair straightener that Casey had at the house. And I saw it and I asked her, I said, Where`d you get that? She said, Zanny gave it to me. And same thing, about a year or so ago, Casey had some videos and she said that Zanny didn`t want the videos anymore, so we had some videos at the house.
So I gave them to John Allen and Carrie Roderick (ph) from missing persons because I thought there might be fingerprints on them. And I also gave them Caylee`s airbed at that time that Casey bought specifically for Zanny`s apartment, if she ever had to stay overnight there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so she would bring the air bag with her to...
ANTHONY: Casey had the air bag in her car, so if she ever needed it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And where was the air bag?
ANTHONY: The air bag`s with the sheriff`s department.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So how about the time period when she was gone and supposedly had given it to Zanny -- the child. Where was the air bag then?
ANTHONY: What do you mean supposedly? Clarify that question, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Well, there came -- we`re going to get to this, but there came a point in time when your daughter was supposedly -- according to her, gave Caylee to the baby-sitter. The baby-sitter had the child.
ANTHONY: What specific date are you talking about?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, we`re at June 15th...
ANTHONY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... moving forward.
ANTHONY: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right? So at that point in time, the air bag that you`re telling me about...
ANTHONY: Casey, from my understanding, never gave Caylee to Zanny.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I think you understand what I`m asking. When she went missing on June 15th, there seemed...
ANTHONY: She didn`t go missing on June 15th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
ANTHONY: It was June 16th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I`m sorry, ma`am. June 16the moving forward, was this air bag, this air mattress that you`re telling me about -- was that in Casey`s possession or your possession?
ANTHONY: It was at the house at that time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The house, meaning your house?
ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so this wasn`t a trip where, as you said before, that there would be times when she slept over and that the air mattress would have gone with her. This wasn`t one of them, is that right?
ANTHONY: No. From my understanding, on June 16th, Casey was going to pick Caylee back up at 4:00 o`clock in the afternoon or whatever time it was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Well, you were aware of the presence of the air mattress in your house, is that right?
ANTHONY: I didn`t know it was in the house until I started going through things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh. When was that?
ANTHONY: Actually, I didn`t even think about the air mattress until - - until the day that I gave it to John Allen. And I can`t remember the specific date, but it was the date after they did their first search of the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the date they first searched your house would have been after the 911 calls, is that right?;
ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was the date of the first search of the house?
ANTHONY: That`s what I`m just saying, I can`t remember the date of the first search of the house, but it was the very next day because -- because of what they were looking for in the house, is when I started thinking that next morning. I was cleaning, and when I saw the hair straightener, I said, Oh, my gosh, because they were looking for evidence at that time.
It was the first time they were actually looking at my house for evidence. So I thought something that may have fingerprints or hairs on it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s get...
ANTHONY: So I went through closets. I went through things to see if anything would trigger in my head something that they could use. So I also gave them her favorite movies, like "Bambi" and different things...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK...
ANTHONY: ... so that they could take...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) and I appreciate it. I kind of want to focus on...
ANTHONY: Well, you asked me a question and I`m explaining.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I`ll be -- I`m not doing a good job of asking, but let me ask this. This air mattress that you`re telling me about, this was something that Casey -- Casey used to take with or -- to Zanny`s so that her child could sleep on it, is that right?
ANTHONY: If she thought that she might be staying late.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So it wasn`t until after there was a search of your house that you actually thought about the air mattress had been taken to Zanny`s house or not?
ANTHONY: Like I said, I happened to stumble across the air mattress, and I had forgotten about the air mattress. I didn`t realize that it was here. For all I know, it could have been in someone`s apartment. You know, Casey -- I mean, she could have left it at Zanny`s house. I hadn`t seen it until I started looking for it. It was in the spare closet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever tell investigators that she used to take this air mattress over to have her daughter, Caylee, sleep at Zanny`s and...
ANTHONY: Yes, I did. When I gave it to John Allen, that was the reason I handed it to John Allen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me back on up. Prior to the time you handed it to John Allen, there were other times you talked to investigators.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, I forgot about the air mattress until I ran across it when I was looking specifically, after they searched the house the first time, so I wouldn`t have had a reason to think about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So during the 31-day time period when Caylee, in your mind, was missing that you didn`t...
ANTHONY: Thirty-one-day period, Caylee was not missing in my mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. There came a point by July 3rd, at least, that you thought she was missing.
ANTHONY: No, I did not believe that Caylee Marie was missing until July 15th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so...
ANTHONY: If I would have thought that Caylee Marie was missing before July 15th, I would have called 911 before July 15th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Let me -- we`ll get back to the air mattress in just a bit. You had a MySpace account, did you not?
ANTHONY: Yes, I opened a MySpace account.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you actually would post on MySpace, right?
ANTHONY: I posted for my daughter`s -- for Casey`s benefit only because I didn`t have any friends on MySpace. And I did it...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me hand you a -- I`m going to go ahead and mark this as an exhibit. And that`s -- you recognize that, don`t you?
ANTHONY: Yes, I know it. I wrote it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. You wrote it, and this is something you put on MySpace, correct?
ANTHONY: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And...
ANTHONY: For Casey. And I tried to get her to be my friend so she could read that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. So what is the date of that posting?
ANTHONY: July the 3rd.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And you say what? What is the title of the posting?
ANTHONY: My Caylee is missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, so is it fair to say that when you wrote this, your mind was that Caylee, in fact, was missing?
ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So that doesn`t mean -- "My Caylee is missing" doesn`t mean what it says?
ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. So July 3rd, did you ever think to go look for this air mattress or find out if, in fact, the air mattress had been taken over to Zanny`s house?
ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So this wasn`t until sometime later that you thought of it and you didn`t...
ANTHONY: I didn`t think of it until I ran across it when I was looking for things in the house that could potentially help the sheriff`s department.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Now, you told me a few moments ago that there was a time period, I guess, when she would stay over at Zanny`s house. Did you ever have any notation anywhere of when those times could have been? You know, in other words, some people keep a diary, a calendar while it`s going on. Can you give me -- direct me specifically from this May or March time period on through to June, what days would it have been?
ANTHONY: I have no idea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have no idea and there`s no way...
ANTHONY: I have no idea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there`s nothing we could look at to tell us?
ANTHONY: Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I`m going to clarify a couple of other things here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) and the only time Casey ever told me -- the only place that Caylee would ever stay over was they were crashing at Zanny`s.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, so the crashing at Zanny`s -- I want to talk about that. Is that what you`re describing to me that she would say to you they were -- she was crashing over at Zanny`s?
ANTHONY: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And those times she was crashing over at Zanny`s, it`s your recollection that she would bring the air mattress with her?
ANTHONY: No. When Casey knew that she may work late, or what she had told me, when she would work late, she would take the air mattress and have it in her car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
ANTHONY: OK? And if she felt that it was too late to come home and to disrupt Caylee, she would stay at Zanny`s and stay overnight and then she`d be home the next morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) she was crashing, OK.
ANTHONY: She was crashing at Zanny`s.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So...
ANTHONY: And that way, she could sleep on the couch or
wherever next to Caylee on the air mattress, and then pick her up -- or and then bring her home the next day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So there would be times -- and you physically saw her taking the air mattress with her when she left with her daughter.
ANTHONY: No, not really.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever see your daughter...
ANTHONY: Because I wasn`t there when she would leave to take Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So all this about whether she had the air mattress or not, again, that`s coming from Casey, is that correct?
ANTHONY: From my understanding -- I believe I saw the air mattress in Casey`s car quite a bit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, so...
ANTHONY: But it wasn`t in Casey`s car when we got the car on July the 15th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. I understand that, and we`re going to get to that. But I want to kind of focus back on this time period. When she`s staying over at Zanny`s house, you`re saying that when she would work late, she would take the air mattress with her, is that right?
ANTHONY: No, what I`m saying is if she thought there was a possibility, if Zanny would watch her in the evening...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
ANTHONY: ... she may have the air mattress with her. If she watched her during the day, she may not have the air mattress with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this was, again, from March to May of 2008?
ANTHONY: No, actually, I stated before it was probably from January.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: January to May 2008? I thought we -- I think, and maybe I`m wrong, we`ve already established as of now, you know that she did not have a job, so she would not have been working late between January and May of 2008.
ANTHONY: That`s my understanding.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Now, how do you reconcile your understanding that she didn`t have a job, so she wouldn`t be working late, and then she would be crashing at Zanny`s, as you said -- ma`am, if I may? -- crashing at Zanny`s, as you told the investigators -- how do you reconcile in your mind those two things?
ANTHONY: You mean now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am.
ANTHONY: I don`t. I don`t reconcile with it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, and one of the...
ANTHONY: Reconciling with it means that you`ve come to terms with it. I haven`t come to terms with it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, let me use a different word as opposed to reconcile, OK?
ANTHONY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s -- they`re two different things because if she doesn`t have a job, she`s not working late, correct? Is that right?
ANTHONY: I don`t know. I have -- you know, I don`t know if she worked or not. I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, well...
ANTHONY: I mean, you`re asking me, I don`t know. No one has found pay stubs. No one has found anything. I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: When we come back, grandmother Cindy Anthony defending tot mom`s lies under oath.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Grandmother Cindy Anthony, combative under oath, defending tot mom`s lies, and then pointing the finger at tot mom`s ex-fiance, Jesse Grund. And it`s all on video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You obviously have been extremely involved in this case, more than anybody, as far as a lot of the facts. And what had happened is you were looking for her. Do you have any information...
ANTHONY: Because this is my granddaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand, ma`am. When I said during the time period...
ANTHONY: Yes, I`m extremely involved in this case. This is -- this is tearing me up every single day because I don`t have my granddaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me direct you so we can go ahead and talk about what I`m asking you...
ANTHONY: Can we actually get to the reason why we`re here today is to clear Mr. Morgan client`s name, that she`s not Zanny?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re getting there in just a moment, ma`am.
ANTHONY: OK, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me go on back here, all right, because I want to focus. There are two different opposite things. One is that she`s working and she`s staying out and she has to crash over at Zanny`s, as you told the police officers. And the other thing is that she wasn`t working.
ANTHONY: I don`t know if she was staying out. You`re speculating, and I`m not going to speculate. She could have just been staying with a friend and her and Caylee and the friend could have had just a nice night. I have no idea, and I`m not going to speculate on where my daughter was. I`m not going to speculate, and you shouldn`t, either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK...
ANTHONY: You don`t have a crystal ball.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I thought you told the police officers -- and again, we just looked at the clip -- that she would have been crashing at Zanny`s. So that would have been your understanding. Basically...
ANTHONY: That`s on the -- that`s what my understanding was at that time. And since then, I found out that Caylee -- Casey wasn`t working, and I found out a lot of stuff since then.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, well...
ANTHONY: But unfortunately, you know, you`re asking me something I don`t know. I don`t know where Casey was at. And I don`t know the circumstances.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it fair to say, then, if you didn`t know where Casey was at, it`s very possible that your granddaughter was never with Zanny?
ANTHONY: I can`t speculate. She could very well have been with Zanny.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. But you really don`t have any information. And you also know now that she wasn`t working during this time period that she said she was.
ANTHONY: You know what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you cross-examining her or...
ANTHONY: Yes, you know, I`m not on trial here.
(CROSSTALK)
ANTHONY: Bottom line is -- yes...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen -- time out.
ANTHONY: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time out. You can...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No. If you have an objection, the rules of civil procedure are objection to the form. If there`s some sort of privilege that I`m impinging on between attorney-client, then you can get involved in this. But I don`t want to have you interrupting and coaching this witness because I`m doing an examination.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not coaching anyone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to make sure. No. If you have an objection, go ahead and make the objection. But I am entitled to do my examination. I intend to go forward with my examination.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My objection is...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s what I`m going to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that you`re cross-examining. Just ask her a question and let her answer it. That`s what she`s trying to do for you.
ANTHONY: Listen, bottom line is, I shouldn`t be answering any questions that is not relevant to Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez, that is a civil lawsuit against Casey Marie Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, I...
ANTHONY: And I am graciously answering these ridiculous questions that have nothing to do with Mr. Morgan`s client that is C. (ph) Zenaida Gonzalez.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Ma`am, we`re going to...
ANTHONY: OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand you want to...
ANTHONY: So...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I may? Ms. Anthony, I appreciate it. And I have a job to do here, and I understand that you want to short-circuit the process.
ANTHONY: I`m not trying to short-circuit anything!
(CROSSTALK)
ANTHONY: You`re accusing me of short-circuiting -- you know, I`m giving Mr. Morgan what he wants. He wants a frickin` TV show, we`re getting it, you know? This is all what he wants.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am...
ANTHONY: This is why we`re here today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, if you can answer my questions -- hold on. If you can answer my questions, if you do your best to answer them...
ANTHONY: I think I`ve tried up until this point...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, and we`re going to go -- we`re...
ANTHONY: ... to answer your questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want to argue with you, and I don`t want to argue with you, all right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So let`s go forward, OK? So between -- during this time period, up to May, when she said she was crashing at Zanny`s, you`ve come to learn now that it wouldn`t be because she was working late because she did not have a job, is that correct?
ANTHONY: That`s what I`m understanding.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So -- but your daughter told you she was working late, and working, right?
ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it fair to say, then, that your daughter was not being truthful with you.
ANTHONY: That`s correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that wouldn`t have been the only time she was untruthful with you, is that right?
ANTHONY: Kids are untruthful all the time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This -- her being untruthful about this, though, is particularly important because it has to do with your granddaughter, though. So she was untruthful with you about the location of your granddaughter, certainly from this time period when she said when she was working late, she was crashing at Zanny`s, is that right?
ANTHONY: I don`t know that because she could have been crashing at Zanny`s. You`re having me speculate that Casey was not at Zanny`s. You`re telling me that I know for a fact that there is no Zanny.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Well, let`s go forward here. I want to ask you another question on that point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY: Zanny became Caylee`s main primary baby-sitter, from what Casey said, probably from October, probably around right after Caylee`s 1st birthday, until the present time. You know what I`m saying? So this person wasn`t made up just a month ago, or whatever. But what I`m thinking -- I think that Zanny at this point was a real person, in the beginning. But I think Zanny is now whoever is watching Caylee. In my mind...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Transferred to (INAUDIBLE)
ANTHONY: Yes. So I think she refers to -- I believe...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think we`re spinning our wheels looking for Zanny?
ANTHONY: I`m not sure. But I have two theories, and I`ll share that with you. I think Zanny could either be Amy or Jesse at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. So again, we`re talking here, and this is today. And this interview with the police was taken some time ago, obviously. I think it was in August of last year, is that right?
ANTHONY: Yes, I think it was, like, August 1st.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Next, more of grandmother Cindy on the hot seat under oath.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Investigations reveal there is no baby-sitter named Zenaida Gonzalez who tot mom claims kidnapped little Caylee. But while under oath and on video, grandmother Cindy Anthony tries to justify tot mom`s story that there is a Zanny the nanny.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... we`re talking about Zanny, but you`ve told police that it was -- in your mind, there was a thought that Zanny, while she may have been a real person at one point in time, had evolved into anybody that was watching Caylee.
ANTHONY: That was my feeling on August 1st.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Now, here we are, whatever today is, April 9th. You`re saying what you told the police officers on August 1st was not accurate?
ANTHONY: No, I`m not saying that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, because...
ANTHONY: That on August 1st, that I believe that Zanny could have been -- because Casey at one point told me that one of the pictures that Caylee was taken at was Zanny`s apartment when it was Ricardo Morales`s apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand, the one with the drums. But let`s get back with this, though...
ANTHONY: There`s several.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
ANTHONY: There`s several. There`s one Caylee with her blanket. There`s several pictures of Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me just do this because we got to change tapes and we`ll take just a second here. When you say in this clip, when you`re talking to investigators, that you think Zanny may have been a real person at first, but then later it was somebody who was watching -- ma`am, if I may -- whoever was watching her. That is what you said back there in August. And again, you were telling the police officers...
ANTHONY: That`s what I said could be a possibility, yes. At that point, we were looking at all possibilities, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve said (INAUDIBLE) here a few times that you don`t believe that this person, Zenaida Gonzalez, was the one who was watching at any time.
ANTHONY: Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And as you sit here today, you don`t have any information that she had anything to do with watching Caylee or the disappearance or anything else. Is that correct?
ANTHONY: Correct. I mean, on the same assumption that, you know, Casey gave me information regarding Zenaida Gonzalez, she told me her name was Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. She told me she was 25 years old. She also told the sheriff`s department -- it`s in the discovery...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
ANTHONY: ... page 28, her description of Zenaida Gonzalez. That was her handwritten statement taken on July the 16th at 10500 (SIC) AM.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Let me -- let me focus in on that. And this is an important point. That description you`re talking about, you know that your daughter gave information to the police, is that right?
ANTHONY: Yes, I was there when she wrote the statement. I was there when she told Yuri Melich. I was there when she told the other detectives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And it`s also your understanding that subsequent to when she was incarcerated, when she first was first put in jail, that she actually had been interviewed by the police about -- about this person, about this Zenaida Gonzalez is that right?
ANTHONY: Yes. My understanding is also what I`ve read and I`ve seen on the discovery, page 4 of the narrative from John Allen, that he pulled your Zenaida out of the David (ph) file. He went down and spoke to her. And then he showed Casey a picture of her, and Casey did not recognize her. John Allen also told me that there was only two Zenaida Gonzalezes in Orlando.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: When we come back, grandmother Cindy Anthony under oath.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A videotaped jail visit between tot mom and grandparents George and Cindy Anthony comes into play as grandmother Cindy under oath.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we stop for a second? You guys are making it awfully hard on the court reporter. You`re stepping on her, she`s stepping on you. Can we -- can we...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll slow down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... go to a question and let her answer it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I appreciate that. On this point that we`re talking about, though, you -- you have an understanding that there was -- your daughter had bee shown a photograph. I`m focusing on that now. You visited with your daughter in jail right around July 25th? You remember that?
CINDY ANTHONY: That`s correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s take a look at that visitation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Did you -- did anybody ask you to describe her? Like (INAUDIBLE) drawing of her?
CINDY ANTHONY: Not once.
CASEY ANTHONY: And when they went to interview that girl down in Kissimmee, they never showed me a picture of her.
(CROSSTALK)
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, they told us that you couldn`t pull her out of the a lineup.
CASEY ANTHONY: They`re full of (EXPLETIVE DELETED)! I had told them multiple times, Find a sketch artist. Show me pictures. Show me something. I can point her out to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, now...
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, so (INAUDIBLE) I`m understanding that you were asking her about whether they ever showed her a photo and she`s saying no. And didn`t you just tell me...
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So...
CINDY ANTHONY: But what I`m telling you is based on what John Allen told me and what I read in discovery is my understanding of what happened...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right...
CINDY ANTHONY: ... that they showed her a picture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So based on what -- based on what John Allen -- you read, was your understanding...
CINDY ANTHONY: That`s what John Allen personally told me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you don`t believe John Allen is lying to you, do you?
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I don`t believe John Allen`s lying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So if John Allen`s being truthful, then, in fact, he showed your daughter a picture of this Zenaida Gonzalez and she said she didn`t recognize her. Is that right, based on your understanding?
CINDY ANTHONY: That`s my understanding.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just saw your daughter say that they never showed her anything, and that girl they interviewed down in Kissimmee, this girl here that was interviewed down in Kissimmee, they never showed her a picture of that. Did you see that?
CINDY ANTHONY: That`s what she states, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Do you believe that to be true or not?
CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea. I was not in the vehicle with Casey when John Allen showed her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you just told me a moment ago that you believe John Allen when he said that he showed a picture of Zenaida Gonzalez...
CINDY ANTHONY: You asked me if John Allen would have a reason to lie, and I said no, I don`t believe that John Allen would have a reason to lie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So assume for me hypothetically John Allen`s being truthful, and the questions you were asking her were, in fact, truthful, that you had been told or it was your understanding there had been a photo lineup. Well, your daughter`s saying something quite different there, isn`t she.
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And what she`s saying, based on your knowledge of what happened in the investigation -- what she`s saying is, again, in accurate.
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, again, you know what? I don`t know that. I wasn`t in the car with Casey. She could be telling the truth. John Allen could be lying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so...
CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea. I don`t know why he would.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. At that point in time, then, who did you think was telling the truth, John Allen or your daughter?
CINDY ANTHONY: At that point in time, I really didn`t know what to believe because at that point in time, I wasn`t trusting the sheriff`s department.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So -- but you had an understanding, though, because you talked about it, that this person down in Kissimmee had, in fact, been interviewed. You knew that, right?
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. As you sit here, this person down in Kissimmee we`re talking about -- you know that we`re talking about Zenaida Gonzalez that is sitting here, is that right?
CINDY ANTHONY: I only know that because she interviewed with channel 6.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) I just need to know. When you`re talking about...
CINDY ANTHONY: You were asking me a question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let her answer the question. If you ask her too broad of a question, she`s going to give you the answer she (INAUDIBLE)
CINDY ANTHONY: Ask me a yes or no question, then I`ll answer yes or no. But if you ask me an open-ended question, I`m going to answer the question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fair enough. Let`s go back to this statement by your daughter. At that point in time, when your daughter said this to you, you`re saying you didn`t know if it was true or you didn`t know it was false, right?
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And you -- when you went in there, you`re going on information from John Allen that you think to be -- thought to be true at the time.
CINDY ANTHONY: At the time, John Allen told me that. At the time, I did not read the discovery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As we sit here now, though, you`ve read the discovery.
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you believe the discovery to be true.
CINDY ANTHONY: Actually, I don`t believe half of the discovery because -- I don`t!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand. I understand.
CINDY ANTHONY: Because there`s a lot of typographical errors in the discovery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
CINDY ANTHONY: In fact, if you look at page 45 and 49, there`s a typographical error on the card that she filled out at Sawgrass Apartments.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sure there is. We`re going to get to that in a moment.
CINDY ANTHONY: And it`s not a typographical error because someone added a Z to her name after it was picked up from the sheriff`s department.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I`m not talking about typographical errors. I`m talking about what you -- ma`am, I didn`t ask you...
CINDY ANTHONY: Well...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t say anything about typographical errors, ma`am.
CINDY ANTHONY: Gonzale and Gonzalez is two different names.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
CINDY ANTHONY: So you`re asking me a question if I believe everything that I read in the discovery. I`m answering that question because I`m telling you exactly why I don`t believe it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry. I didn`t ask the question, and if I did ask it this way...
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, you did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am...
CINDY ANTHONY: You...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I asked it this way, I apologize. Let me ask it more specifically.
CINDY ANTHONY: OK, ask more specific.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The statement made by the police officer, John Allen, that he, in fact, showed her a picture of Zenaida Gonzalez and she said she didn`t know who it was -- you believe that statement to be true.
CINDY ANTHONY: He told me he pulled it up...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me ask you...
CINDY ANTHONY: ... on the David. I don`t know what a "David" is. I don`t know if...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me ask you...
CINDY ANTHONY: ... it`s a computer or a picture. A picture is this. So you`re asking this question, yes or no. Clarify it for me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will...
CINDY ANTHONY: A picture, I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. I`ll clarify it.
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You at this point in time, as we sit here today -- ma`am, if I may? Please. I`m trying to ask this question.
CINDY ANTHONY: Don`t be condescending to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m trying not to be (INAUDIBLE)
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. As you sit here today, you`ve read the discovery and you`ve read the part of the discovery -- and this is what I`m focusing on -- about that he, John Allen, or somebody from the police department, showed your daughter a picture this Zenaida Gonzalez. You understand that. Is that yes or no?
CINDY ANTHONY: He told me...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have that understanding?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) yes or no.
CINDY ANTHONY: My -- yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
CINDY ANTHONY: He said that he showed something with her picture on it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you believe that statement that he told you -- you believe that to be true.
CINDY ANTHONY: At the time, I believed it to be true.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. At the time he told you that, you believed it to be true?
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that before you spoke to her?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. So you knew -- something that you believed to be true at that point in time was that this police officer had shown her a photograph of our client, Mr. Morgan`s client, and that she had exonerated, said, No, that`s not the right person.
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was in your mind that that was true.
CINDY ANTHONY: That`s correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when you asked your daughter these questions, it was also in your mind that that was true.
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that correct? So when your daughter tells you that she was never shown a photo lineup -- on this exact point -- do you believe your daughter at that point or do you believe Mr. -- Detective Allen?
CINDY ANTHONY: At that point, I can`t remember what I believed. At this point, I still don`t know what I believe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Well, what is the truth and what isn`t true, then, as far as that statement? That`s all I`m talking about. This statement here that your daughter was shown a photograph of Zenaida Gonzalez, my client -- what do you believe to be true? Do you think that happened or not?
CINDY ANTHONY: My belief has nothing to do with it because I wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand you weren`t there. Do you believe that happened or not?
CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea. I really don`t know what I believe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
CINDY ANTHONY: And that`s the honest to God`s truth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During this time period here in July, though, when you were speaking with your daughter, she was -- you were asking her to relay messages to you and that so you could relay messages through the media because you were talking to the media at this point, is that right?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. I was talking to the media quite a bit...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And she...
CINDY ANTHONY: ... to get Caylee`s picture out there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that. And obviously, we saw one clip already from Greta Van Susteren. And there were other news organizations, too. But it`s fair to say, like we have today, there were cameras around you, is that right?
CINDY ANTHONY: On which particular day?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anytime. If you wanted to talk to the media...
CINDY ANTHONY: I couldn`t sneeze without a camera around me, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand. That`s what I`m getting at. So when you were talking to Casey in jail there, earlier in the day, I think you asked her if she had any messages for Zanny. Do you remember that? And she...
CINDY ANTHONY: I remember at some point. Whether or not that was that particular one, I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So it`s fair to say that she was giving you the authority to speak for her by passing along messages.
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So when -- when you were talking to the media, you were talking on your daughter`s behalf for the idea...
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to try to find Caylee. You`re speaking for her, is that right?
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So you`re saying that on this particular day, that statement, you don`t know if it was true or not. You don`t know what to believe. Let`s skip forward here. Did you also talk to the media on the 28th?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: They`re calling my daughter a liar. Are they lying to us when they told us there`s only one in central Florida and she`s in Kissimmee, and because, you know, my daughter said that she didn`t recognize her? My daughter said they never showed her a picture. She said she didn`t look at any lineups.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so...
CINDY ANTHONY: That`s true.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Well, I don`t have a question pending (ph), so we`ll go ahead and focus (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: More of tot mom`s apparent lies emerge concerning the Zenaida Gonzalez she claims kidnapped Caylee.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The grandmother, Cindy, still defending tot mom, even attacking the real Zenaida Gonzalez connected to Sawgrass Apartments. It`s all on video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve gone and you`ve had this conversation from your daughter. She`s now empowered you to go ahead and basically broadcast or publish what her thoughts are, her statements. And as we`ve seen here, you`ve gone and you`ve broadcast her statement about this particular Zenaida Gonzalez really to the world. Is that right?
CINDY ANTHONY: I broadcast her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. The statement -- I just heard it -- about the -- whether she was shown a photo lineup, that type of thing -- that was now published to anybody who wants to watch, is that right?
CINDY ANTHONY: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And obviously, this case, as we all know, has a great deal of public interest, right? Is that correct?
CINDY ANTHONY: Of course.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So the statement that the police officers have made that your daughter has denied that this Zenaida Gonzalez is the actual Zenaida Gonzalez -- that now has been undone by this statement you`ve made because your daughter has told you and you`ve broadcast to the world that she never was shown a photograph.
CINDY ANTHONY: No, it`s not undone because Casey`s handwritten statement does not describe her. Her birthday is not September 1st. She`s not 25 years old. She`s not 5-foot-7. She`s not 140 pounds. She doesn`t have black hair. She doesn`t have perfect teeth. She`s not a 10. I`m sorry, ma`am, you`re cute, but you`re not a 10.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, ma`am, did you say all those things to the press here?
CINDY ANTHONY: I didn`t need to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, but did you say -- when the camera was there, did you say anything about how you just described Ms. Gonzalez for me -- did you...
CINDY ANTHONY: Not on that day.
(CROSSTALK)
CINDY ANTHONY: Ask me a question if I ever talked to the press about that young lady.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I`m going to -- we`re going to go one question at a time.
CINDY ANTHONY: And then I`ll answer it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to do one question at a time, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) questions (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that`s true, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brad can -- Brad has the right later, Ms. Anthony, to ask his own questions (INAUDIBLE) for you to clarify...
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, he just asked me if I ever talked to the media about it. Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) saying is, we -- we`re -- we`re entitled to ask our questions. And I know there`s questions you may want us to ask, and then later, Brad will have that opportunity for you to be -- for you to clarify.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So on this date, when this statement was made -- and I`m talking about this statement here, if I may -- the statement to the media that your daughter has authorized you to make, OK -- again, that is something that you`re talking about, the photo lineup and whether a photograph has been shown to the police about my client -- that`s what you were talking about on this date, correct?
CINDY ANTHONY: I believe so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. So...
CINDY ANTHONY: But that`s only part of the interview. You never see the whole interview on TV.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, I...
CINDY ANTHONY: SO I can`t tell you if I didn`t say more on that day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s entitled to answer the question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. No, no.
CINDY ANTHONY: You`re asking me a question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re entitled...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s entitled to answer, and then you`re entitled later to come back, as you well know, and ask her your own set of questions to clarify.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And all I`m asking is that she can fully answer the question because (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She will because you`re going to be able to ask her anything you want.
CINDY ANTHONY: No, but he`s shaking his head when he asks me a question. And I`m answering it, and then he cuts me off. That`s exactly what the sheriff`s department did to my daughter. They never let her speak. And you guys are doing the same thing to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you said that to the media -- and when I say "that" to the media, I`m focusing you now to -- about this statement that you said in front of the cameras on July 28th, referring to what your daughter had told you in the jail. When you said that to the media, when you were out there, you had questions in your mind as to whether this statement you were making was truthful or not. Is that fair to say?
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t get what you`re asking. You`re asking me if I thought that the sheriff`s office statement was not true or Casey`s statement was not true?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Either or both. You had questions in your -- if I may? I`ll rephrase it since you don`t understand it. You had a question in your mind -- when you said that about your daughter told you and your daughter wasn`t shown a photograph, you had a question in your mind as to whether your daughter was telling you the truth or not, is that right?
CINDY ANTHONY: No. I didn`t have a question. No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No question in your mind? So you believed -- when she said to you, They didn`t show me a photo lineup, you believed that to be the truth?
CINDY ANTHONY: I didn`t have a question whether or not she was telling me the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you have a question on?
CINDY ANTHONY: I didn`t. You`re asking me if I had a question. I didn`t have a question about any of it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So -- all right, so now, when she said to you -- and you told me before you didn`t know what the truth was -- when she said to you, They didn`t show me a photo, you believed that to be true and the police to be inaccurate, is that what you`re saying?
CINDY ANTHONY: No. What I`m saying is the sheriff`s office told me certain things. At the time when they told me, I believed them. As time goes on, I`m not sure what I believe. Same thing with Casey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So when you talked to the media on this date -- just this clip, this is the only clip I`m talking about now -- you weren`t resolved in your mind as to what the truth was and what was not the truth about this statement about the photo lineup for Zenaida Gonzalez, is that fair to say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes or no.
CINDY ANTHONY: Whether or not Casey was shown a picture? I`m not sure if Casey was shown a picture at that date.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And whether Casey -- how about whether Casey was being truthful with you or not -- were you sure or not sure or you don`t know?
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know. She had no reason to lie at that point about her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey, your daughter, had no reason to lie at that point?
CINDY ANTHONY: She had no reason to lie about the pictures that they would have shown her. It would have made no -- it would have made no sense for her to say, It`s not her, or she didn`t see the picture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So basically...
CINDY ANTHONY: Why would she lie about that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, your daughter -- is it fair to say your daughter has lied to you about many things?
CINDY ANTHONY: It`s fair to say the sheriff`s department lied to me about many things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ll get to the sheriff`s department lies in a minute, but I want to ask about your daughter. Is it fair (ph) to you prior to this time you made the statement to the media that your daughter has lied to you about many things?
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And so when you`re saying you don`t now if she had a reason to lie or not, other than the fact that there was some suspicion of your daughter`s involvement in her daughter`s disappearance, are you -- do you think that she was more truthful because she told you, or do you think she`s more truthful -- well, let me re-ask that. I apologize. At this point in time, you`re saying you`re not sure if your daughter was telling the truth or not about the picture, or do you know?
CINDY ANTHONY: I believe Casey may not have been shown a picture of this particular Zenaida.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And you say you believe that -- you believe that now?
CINDY ANTHONY: I believe that now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
CINDY ANTHONY: That there`s a possibility that she may not have been shown that picture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Now, if the flip -- now, we`ve heard through -- and you were saying it before about the description and the police showing her -- are you saying that the police are being untruthful about that they showed your daughter a picture of my client?
CINDY ANTHONY: What I`m saying is that the sheriff`s department has stated many things that have been not truthful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. But I want to go specifically to this issue because this is an important issue, ma`am, obviously. Do you believe the sheriff`s department was lying to you, and not only lying to you, lying in official documents, about whether they showed your daughter a photograph of my client, Zenaida Gonzalez?
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, the reason I believe it`s a possibility that they were telling me not the truth about it is because they also told me in the same breath that there was only two Zenaidas that they were able to pull up. And I was able to pull up on the same day 11 myself. So that`s when the doubt came to my mind, before I went to see my daughter there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right...
CINDY ANTHONY: So yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so as -- but as we...
CINDY ANTHONY: The doubt is there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But as we sit here today -- I mean, we`re not talking about whether there`s a doubt or not -- do you believe that the police department, the sheriff`s office that was in charge with finding your granddaughter -- do you believe that they misled the public and misled you and misled everybody else about that they showed Casey a photograph of my client?
CINDY ANTHONY: I have...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that what you believe?
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know. There`s a possibility that they could have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s based upon the fact about the Zenaida Gonzalezes you`re talking about?
CINDY ANTHONY: If -- because of the fact that they told me on the same breath that he told me he showed her picture that there was only two. And that`s why he singled her out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
CINDY ANTHONY: That it was John Allen that picked her, not Casey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That John Allen picked her, not Casey?
CINDY ANTHONY: John Allen told me he`s the one that went to her. Casey never told him to go to Kissimmee. Casey never said the person lived in Kissimmee. John Allen went to Kissimmee. Read his reporter. He said he went to Kissimmee and interviewed her. Read the discovery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, I...
CINDY ANTHONY: Unless the discovery`s wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I guess that`s what we`re getting at. Besides the fact that about the number of Zenaida Gonzalezes that you just said to me -- I just want to make sure. Are you saying here now today under oath that it`s your belief that the police are lying...
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that the police are lying about that statement in the discovery?
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not saying that I believe they`re lying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Next, grandmother Cindy Anthony`s sworn testimony becomes more intense by the minute. And it`s all caught on video.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where did you pull up the Zenaida -- the multiple Zenaida Gonzalezes? What computer would that have been?
CINDY ANTHONY: What do you mean, what computer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you said you pulled it up, I assumed you pulled it up on a computer or...
CINDY ANTHONY: You`re asking me what computer or what site I pulled it up on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both.
CINDY ANTHONY: No, you didn`t. Now you`re asking both.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, well...
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, that`s what I was trying to clarify.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am.
CINDY ANTHONY: But see, now you`re -- you`re -- you know, because I went there...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I appreciate that.
CINDY ANTHONY: But see, your questions aren`t specific and that`s why...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Well, that`s my fault. I`ll make them more specific.
CINDY ANTHONY: OK. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you pulled up, and that means -- to me, that means -- pulled up means ran a search on the Internet.
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that on a computer?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What computer was that?
CINDY ANTHONY: It was my desktop.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The desktop that -- the Hewlett-Packard desktop from your house?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The one that`s been seized?
CINDY ANTHONY: Actually, it was after because they only took it for four days. They took it July 17th and I got it back on July 22nd.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So the searches that you`re talking about when you got it back -- are you saying that they -- they wouldn`t be there because you ran the search on July 27th?
CINDY ANTHONY: It was actually August the 16th when I ran some searches on her because I have some printouts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
CINDY ANTHONY: I probably ran it before then, but I have some printouts that are printed out with the dates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, this statement here was made on July 28th that you made, right? So at that point in time, you didn`t have any information about...
CINDY ANTHONY: What I just said -- if you listened to my statement, I said I have some that I printed out on July -- I mean on August the 16th, but I know I ran some searches prior to that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army 1st Lieutenant Donald Carwile, 29, Oxford, Virginia, a University of Mississippi grad, left the Army to become a police officer in his own town, reenlisted after qualifying for officer candidate school, awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, two Army Achievement medals, Global War on Terrorism service medal, put his fellow soldiers first, always said his goal was to bring his men home. His second goal, to come home himself. Leaves behind parents, Dennis and Bettina (ph), two sisters, one brother and widow, Jennifer (ph), daughters Reese (ph) and Avery (ph). Donald Carwile, American hero.
Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us for this special "Nancy Grace Investigates." I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 o`clock sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
