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Young Socialite Found Dead in Her L.A. Home; Interview With Captain Sullenberger
Aired January 05, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Casey Johnson, 30- year-old socialite, was found dead in her L.A. home. Is this yet another case of the party ending early for a rich and famous party girl? We`ll discuss.
Then, it`s a bird, it`s a plane, it`s Sullenberger. Super pilot, Sully Sullenberger touches down in the studio for a one on one.
And Beyonce gives a private concert for the Gadhafi family; singing for your supper is one thing, but for a terrorist`s son? All this and more tonight.
Good evening, everybody.
Unfortunately I have to start tonight with a story we`ve heard time and time again. A young woman dies of supposedly natural causes alone in her home. But rumors about prescription drug overdose have surfaced and investigations continue.
The latest case is 30-year-old heiress, Casey Johnson, whose body was found yesterday in her Beverly Hills rental mansion.
Here to discuss her tragic death are Lauren Sanchez, weekend anchor and correspondent for "Extra"; Brad Lamm, board-registered interventionist and author of "How to Change Someone You Love"; and Rob Shuter, columnist AOL`s Pop Eater (ph) and friend of Casey Johnson`s.
Greetings. Welcome.
Lauren let me start with you. Police are saying apparent natural causes but others are saying apparent drug overdose. The girl had a history, right?
LAUREN SANCHEZ, WEEKEND ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT, "EXTRA": Yes. First of all, she also had a history of diabetes and she had been in diabetic comas before. So that`s where everything gets a little gray. And her girlfriend -- actually her fiancee Tila Tequila has said from an anonymous source that she thinks that she used way too many prescription drugs.
So they`re saying, police are saying it`s natural causes but we don`t know until the toxicology report gets back. And that`s going to take a few weeks.
BEHAR: That will take weeks. And what about the autopsy, that`s coming when -- today, tomorrow?
SANCHEZ: Yes. Those reports will probably come back in a few days, depending on when their family says that they can perform an autopsy. We don`t know when that`s going to be. I would say a couple of weeks.
But this was a woman who, on paper, had it all, Joy.
BEHAR: I know.
SANCHEZ: She was the heiress of the Johnson & Johnson family. She was beautiful but she did have erratic, crazy behavior going on and so no one really knows right now.
BEHAR: It reminds me of the Brittany Murphy story very much, doesn`t it to you?
SHUTER: Absolutely.
BRAD LAMM, INTERVENTIONIST: A lot of similarities. In fact, both of them had struggled with prescription drug problems and they both struggled with their weight. Those are just a couple of the similarities between these stories.
BEHAR: And they both have this history of diabetes allegedly. That was another thing that was similar. You knew the girl.
ROB SHUTER, FRIEND OF CASEY JOHNSON: I did. I did, I mean...
BEHAR: Tell me what you knew about her personally.
SHUTER: She was one of the saddest girls I`ve ever met, and I don`t mean that in a negative way. She had everything that should have made her happy.
BEHAR: She was a very wealthy girl...
SHUTER: And beautiful.
BEHAR: And pretty, very pretty.
SHUTER: Beautiful girl and smart. She was not a stupid girl. What she had was that awful attitude of, so what, like everything I do, nothing can be bigger than what my family did. So she almost was like cursed by this family name and this family fortune.
She would call me when she was in town to have dinner. And she really didn`t know me that well but there was nobody else there. She was really just by herself.
BEHAR: I was just reading that they didn`t find her body for several days.
SANCHEZ: That`s right. A maid found it. Her maid found it and the police are saying that she might have been dead for a few days. And everyone is asking, why didn`t her fiancee -- where was her fiancee?
They were allegedly fighting. So Tila Tequila hadn`t spoken to here in a few days and she said that her phone was off so that`s why no one knew she was dead.
BEHAR: She was engaged to reality star Tila Tequila.
SHUTER: Right. But she like grew up being along. She was most comfortable by herself. She knew how to be alone. She didn`t know how to have friends. She didn`t know how to have...
BEHAR: What do you make of this?
LAMM: I look at it has somebody who has been through rehab time and time again and the stories coming out of the press today say that her family had started to try tough love. They had consequences. We`re going to have no contact with you unless you go back to rehab.
And I think that`s just a mistake that a lot of families do. They say, hey, we`re not going to talk to you ever again and they walk away. My approach is, we invite them into a family meeting and we try to use love as the motivator. I think that`s a much better motivator.
BEHAR: It`s a rather cold thing to do to just walk away from a girl in trouble.
LAMM: That`s the prevailing wisdom, families. They ask somebody to accept help and when the person says no, they say, "Ok, we have to go to consequences right now" and they say so often, "I will never talk to you again unless you do what I tell you and then they walk away.
BEHAR: She has a strange history of behavior though. Besides being in and out of rehab, she was arrested for breaking into her ex`s home. She set her girlfriend`s hair on fire. That`s a tip-off.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Her mother took custody of Casey`s adopted daughter. She was cut off from her parent`s fortune for reportedly not reentering rehab. But she still was going to get money, wasn`t she?
SHUTER: She got money from her family. I don`t think it was the amount that people assume she got. There was an enormous amount of money in this family. They gave her an allowance each month. I don`t know how much she got. You know, I know that...
BEHAR: She had funds.
SANCHEZ: She did have access to everything. She just talked about it in a recent "Vanity Fair" article but she said she hated having it all because she felt like she couldn`t do anything on her own. She said, and I kind of quoting here, "How many times can you go shopping? And it makes me feel so empty that I`m not doing anything."
And another thing, she says her biggest regret in her entire life was not doing "The Simple Life" with Paris Hilton. You have to remember, this is one of Paris` best friends and went to Casey first to ask her if she wanted to be on it and Casey said she didn`t want to. And I think, you know, she`s regretted that from the day that she said no.
SHUTER: But I think she regrets it for the wrong reason. I think she regrets it because Paris at one point felt lost too and I think through fame Paris found an outlet. Paris found something to do. Nicole Richie found it through her kids and her husband.
Casey never found an outlet. She never found a hobby. She never found -- her hobby was herself, which I think Paris is...
BEHAR: Paris` hobby is fame and herself. And her little dog she carries around.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMM: I think there are a few broken people that -- (INAUDIBLE) line of people that are addicted is off in crisis and -- like I was an addict for many, many years before I got clean and sober.
BEHAR: What were you on?
LAMM: Alcohol, crystal meth, two packs of cigarettes a day. I was sick. And there were always chaotic things happening in my life. And since I got clean and sober, I`ve never let anybody set on fire. And so those are wakeup calls -- those concerns are wakeup calls for family members, when these chaotic things are happening to somebody that they love.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But you can`t blame...
BEHAR: Tell me about the daughter, Lauren. Or either one of you.
LAMM: No, Lauren. I`m not blaming them.
BEHAR: Tell me about the child.
He`s not in the blame game. This is the rehab game.
SANCHEZ: I feel bad for the family as well. They`ve lost their daughter and it`s hard to say, you know, what was the right path and what was the wrong path. I`m sure that her family did everything they could to save her. It just may not have been the one that worked for her.
BEHAR: She once described her family`s money as golden handcuffs.
SHUTER: She told me that once...
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s a very creative way to describe things.
SHUTER: I was shocked. This wasn`t a stupid girl. This was a smart girl who just hadn`t and found what she was looking for. But when she said it was the golden handcuffs, I asked her, "What do you mean?" she said I live in the lap of luxury, but it`s a prison.
BEHAR: She was alone for the holidays, too. Tell me about her daughter. I want to hear about the child for a minute.
SANCHEZ: Ava Monroe (ph) she had a 2-year-old daughter that she adopted. However, you know, reports are that Casey`s mother actually got custody of the daughter because she was worried that Casey was doing too many drugs. And that`s -- so reports are that the daughter is with Casey`s mother and has been for a while.
BEHAR: How did Casey react to the mother taking over the child.
SHUTER: I don`t know. I know that when she got the daughter she said it was the happiest day of her live. She and her friends assumed that this would be the one thing she needed in her life, something to do, someone to love, someone to look after.
The problem is Casey had never been given those skills. She had never learned how to be a mother.
BEHAR: A lot of people are in that position Rob. It`s not pretty either.
LAMM: Yes, but so many times I see addicted Moms that will say my child is the most important thing in my life but yet it`s very far down on the hierarchy because...
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Go ahead, Lauren.
SANCHEZ: No, no. It`s not the skills, your parenting skills. You have a baby and you don`t know what to do. But if you`re doing drugs and alcohol, then you really don`t have the capability to take care of a child.
BEHAR: Also if you`ve been neglected and ignored as a child yourself, you`re not going to be a very good mother yourself.
SHUTER: I think it`s not the drugs or the alcohol. I think it`s the money. I think it`s the money. It`s not the drugs, it`s not the alcohol; she had too much money.
BEHAR: But you know what, a lot of people have a lot of money Rob and they don`t get into this position.
SHUTER: But if you were born into that wealth -- I don`t know many people that were born into the Johnson & Johnson wealth.
BEHAR: She had siblings. Doesn`t she have siblings. Are they drug addicts?
LAMM: No.
BEHAR: There`s your argument right out the window, Rob.
LAMM: A lot of people have a lot of denial.
SANCHEZ: I mean, look at her father. Her father is owner of the Jets and he was born into the Johnson & Johnson family.
BEHAR: Ivanka Trump, she`s a great girl. It`s not necessarily the money.
LAMM: It`s not always hereditary.
But I will say often times I`ll see with people that have a lot of money or at the top of the food chain, they not only have denial but they have the enabling behavior all around them. They don`t really have anybody to say no to them.
BEHAR: That`s true.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: This is a woman who just recently got engaged to Tila Tequila. You know, a reality star that`s known for being, you know, sexually out there you might want to say. And actually there`s a tweet from her -- I don`t know if you guys want to...
BEHAR: Yes, I have it. I`m going to read it for you. She tweeted on her Twitter account, "Everyone please pray for my wifey Casey Johnson. She has passed away. Thank you all for your love and support, but I will be offline to be with my family." There`s something strange about that.
SHUTER: There is something strange. And (INAUDIBLE) already is that she`s saying wifey and I don`t know if it`s true or not.
BEHAR: Wifey but let`s...
SHUTER: She wants to be part of whatever might be left is what people are saying. I don`t know how truthful that is but if this is her wife and there`s an awful lot of money here.
BEHAR: Doesn`t Tila have her own money?
SHUTER: I don`t think she has Casey Johnson money.
BEHAR: No, well, no one does.
SANCHEZ: She doesn`t but Joy, there`s actually another one. The most recent tweet...
BEHAR: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... was she said, "RIP my angel, you will forever be in my heart. I love you so much and we will marry when I see you in heaven, my wifey."
BEHAR: You know, it`s sort of like the Twitter has taken the place of an obituary now.
You know and there`s something so -- I think it`s so strange, I`m sorry, this is my opinion, I`m entitled to my opinion.
SANCHEZ: I`m with you on that one.
BEHAR: I think it`s weird and it`s self-serving and it becomes about the person who is doing the tweeting...
SHUTER: Yes.
BEHAR: ... rather than the person who has passed away.
LAMM: Well, but if there can be a take away from this. I think that we start talking again about things that families can do, you know, because here was a girl that lived, with family nearby and she was just isolated living in squalor.
BEHAR: Yes.
LAMM: You know, the family didn`t know what to do.
SANCHEZ: I know that is what they said when they went to the apartment, they said it was just a ransack it was just a mess.
BEHAR: Well, if you`re on drugs...
LAMM: If you`re not a great housekeeper...
SHUTER: This is a girl that grew up having nannies and maids and people that cleans up and washed up after her and left to her own devices, she didn`t do that. Like this wasn`t a girl that knew how to you know necessarily leave a tip on a credit card.
I remember once we had lunch together and the bill came and Casey really was a little useless. Her assistant was with us and she dealt with the check. It was quite odd to see.
BEHAR: She didn`t know how to handle money.
SHUTER: No.
BEHAR: She didn`t know how to handle a child.
SHUTER: No.
BEHAR: She didn`t know how to handle a relationship.
LAMM: And there she died alone.
BEHAR: She didn`t know how to handle herself.
LAMM: Yes.
BEHAR: Poor girl.
SHUTER: And the interesting thing -- it`s very interesting that because ...
SANCHEZ: Yes I know.
SHUTER: ... this is a girl that I don`t believe could stick to a schedule, if given a self injections, this was a girl that was late for lunch. I can`t imagine her injecting...
BEHAR: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, thanks Lauren, I have to go.
Thanks very much for all your insights.
Coming up, are we safe to fly? I`ll ask Hudson River hero Captain "Sully" Sullenberger next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Captain Sullenberger meets some of the crew and captains from New York Waterway, the company that rescued most of the passengers.
CAPT. CHESLEY SULLENBERGER, PILOT, U.S. AIRWAYS: It was great that your boat was ready, that you were preparing for the afternoon rush hour shift.
CAPT. MANUEL LIBA, NEW YORK WATERWAY: It could be any -- it was perfect timing. And we saw the landing, of course, we were kind of like struck in awe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Before January 15th, 2009, Chesley Sullenberger was a highly experienced but little known U.S. Airways pilot. But since that fateful day when he landed safely a plane filled with 155 people on the Hudson River, the man they call "Sully" has become a national hero.
That clip you just saw was from TLC`s "Brace for Impact: The Chesley B. Sullenberger Story".
I`m happy to welcome Captain Chesley B. Sullenberger to the show.
SULLENBERGER: Hi Joy, good to be here.
BEHAR: Welcome to the show. Tell me about this show.
SULLENBERGER: I`m very proud of it. Dan Berman, the producer, had a list of things he was trying to get of access. And he thought if we could -- even half of them will be lucky while we`ll be getting all of them. We had access to the actual airplane I was flying that day. I was able to walk around it, tell about it.
We have access to the FAA air traffic control centers and the controllers who were working that day. We got an amazing ability to tell this wonderful story that`s inspired people for so many months now.
BEHAR: Well, was it hard to rehash the story? I mean, after all, you must have had post-traumatic stress disorder. And to go back there, was it difficult?
SULLENBERGER: It`s a wonderful reminder of the remarkably good day we had that day. And of course at first for the first few weeks or months, it was traumatic and it was stressful. But we`ve had a long time to process that and realize that we really did the best we could with the situation we faced in the time we had to deal with.
So it`s a very good story and it`s one that I don`t mind telling again it all.
BEHAR: Was there any point where you thought -- I`m not going to be able to pull this off?
SULLENBERGER: No, I was confident from the outset that we would find a way to solve each of the problems in order until we finally solve them all. And I had a great crew and Jeffrey Skiles and I worked together very quickly and very closely to make that happen.
BEHAR: The passengers, there were 155 passengers. They all thanked you personally, I understand. Oh why wouldn`t they?
SULLENBERGER: You know, I`ve met almost -- I`ve met almost all of them. And I have a few we have to meet and -- but they`ve -- they have kept in touch. I got a lot of Christmas cards this season.
BEHAR: I`ll bet.
SULLENBERGER: And yes, their words mean the most to me.
BEHAR: I guess it`s kind of like a family of people at this point.
SULLENBERGER: You`re right.
BEHAR: Yes.
SULLENBERGER: We`ve all been joined I think forever because of this remarkable event, passengers and crew.
BEHAR: Yes, do you think that flying is the safest way to travel still, even in view of what has been going on lately?
SULLENBERGER: Oh absolutely.
BEHAR: You do?
SULLENBERGER: But we have to also work very hard to keep it being safer and safer. We have to keep making new investments. And we have to solve some of the problems that we have in the industry that we`ve known about for a while. Like fatigue and experience levels and make sure that we are doing it the best that we know how.
BEHAR: Yes, well, you`re an experienced pilot and I think that after the incident on the Hudson, people were talking about the fact that, you know, thank you that we had an experienced pilot who knew how to, I guess, splash they call it, splash land?
SULLENBERGER: Well, we certainly did splash. But yes it was an emergency landing.
BEHAR: But did -- wasn`t there a special thing that you knew how to do that -- about landing, some gliding? You had experience in gliding?
SULLENBERGER: I had experience gliding. Yes.
BEHAR: Yes. That helped a lot. So if the pilot of the plane didn`t have that, it would have been a whole different result.
SULLENBERGER: Well, I think -- I think I brought all my life experiences to bear that day. And of course it was a very difficult problem we had very little time to solve, but we made some important decisions very quickly that ultimately resulted...
BEHAR: Well, a lot of people in this country see you as a hero and we very much need heroes in this country. Do you see yourself that way?
SULLENBERGER: I know that my crew and I did our jobs very well and I can understand how people want to feel that way about us. And I don`t want to deny their gift to us.
But I think what people see in me is qualities that we think of as typically American. And if they do, then I`m glad.
BEHAR: Yes, well, they see you as an American hero. They also see you as an American sex symbol.
SULLENBERGER: Well, I know what you`re talking about and in one interview, my wife did say that...
BEHAR: Yes.
SULLENBERGER: ... we`ve become closer that way.
BEHAR: She did?
SULLENBERGER: And you know these kinds of stresses either push you farther apart or you bring them closer together and we`ve tried to make it bring us closer together.
BEHAR: Yes and is it working?
SULLENBERGER: Yes. It`s working.
BEHAR: Oh that`s good. I`m glad, I think that it taps into rescue fantasies that women have, some women, maybe men have it too. You know that they`re going to just -- Superman is going to come in and take them away.
SULLENBERGER: The prince charming on the white horse.
BEHAR: Yes.
SULLENBERGER: I`m working on the horse.
BEHAR: So are you still working as a pilot?
SULLENBERGER: I am.
BEHAR: You are.
SULLENBERGER: Of course, I`m so busy with all these other things too that I`m not flying a full schedule.
But I was able to be reunited with my first officer from the January flight when I came back to work and also with Patrick Hardin, the air traffic controller whose voice you heard on these tapes so many times.
BEHAR: Yes.
SULLENBERGER: He came in to work early that day just to work our departure from New York.
BEHAR: So you`re not skittish about getting back on a plane again? Get back on a horse -- the old saying -- that`s ok?
SULLENBERGER: You know, it`s a big part of who I am and it was a very familiar place to come back and get in the cockpit again.
BEHAR: And I`m just curious. Before we go, the 155 passengers, are they scared to get back on a plane?
SULLENBERGER: I don`t think so. In fact, several of them joined us back in the fall when I was reunited with Jeff Skiles and flew that same flight again.
BEHAR: With you? With you, sure.
SULLENBERGER: They came and joined us that day.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks you very much for joining me today. Very nice to meet you, Captain Sully.
TLC`s "Brace for Impact: The Chesley B. Sullenberger Story" airs this Sunday and his book "Highest Duty" is in bookstores now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Well, we love her on the "Real Housewives of New York City" and we love her more for being with us to talk about her new book, "Skinny Girl." Bethenny Frankel is the author of the "Skinny Girl Dish: Easy recipes for your naturally thin life". Welcome, Bethenny.
BETHENNY FRANKEL, AUTHOR, "SKINNY GIRL DISH": Thank you.
BEHAR: It`s a New Year, we`re looking to lose weight. What can I do to start losing right now?
FRANKEL: First of all, there`s no such thing as a resolution and starting. It should always be the same. You should always -- your diet is always going to be a bank account and you`re always going to decide when to splurge, when to hold back and this shouldn`t be any different.
And basically if you`re doing it right, then there should be no December 31 or January 1st, it should always be kind of balanced. Because then you`re never going to be hysterical and drastic.
And this is the week that everybody is eating everything fat free and dry and panicked and regretful and being emotional about it instead of just being balanced and saying let me just reel it in a little bit, let me eat well, let me eat high volume foods with a lot of colors, with a lot of flavor, a lot of -- sort of good fats.
BEHAR: Good fats?
FRANKEL: Good fats but like if you use different herbs and -- when you go to a spa, it`s low fat but it`s always colorful and it`s always a big event. And you kind of have to do that a little bit at home.
BEHAR: What about white foods? Should I stay away from white foods?
FRANKEL: I would say it`s the lesser of evils, yes, to get the raw sugar, to have the whole grain and to have the whole wheat pasta. Not always, not be obsessive. If you`re in a restaurant and you want pasta, figure it out in that moment. Try to load it up with vegetables. You eat all the vegetables first then you`ll have a little bit less of the pasta because you fill up on the good stuff.
BEHAR: No, you won`t.
FRANKEL: You will.
BEHAR: No, you won`t.
FRANKEL: You`ll have the salad first.
BEHAR: You`ll eat that pasta any way.
FRANKEL: Well, you can cancel your membership to the Queen Clay Club (ph) and leave one bite, two bites just to get yourself used to that or just order an appetizer portion and you kind of get used...
BEHAR: Well, that`s (INAUDIBLE), you can`t order a half order.
FRANKEL: You can`t order a half order.
BEHAR: Of pasta yes.
There`s a way to do it. So it`s the old dreaded portion control.
FRANKEL: The old dreaded portion control but if you do have a soup or salad first, it does tend work. If you had a club soda, it really does work and you feel like you`re participating. You`re not hating pasta, you`re not afraid of it.
BEHAR: Right, right. Don`t fear pasta.
FRANKEL: Don`t fear food because food is not your best friend...
BEHAR: And I don`t like the fat free either. It`s like rubber.
FRANKEL: No, my book is all -- it`s lower fat. I renovate recipes. I take the fattening, spinach, artichokes, fattening guacamole or chicken pot pie and I renovate keeping all the flavor and a lot of vegetables and taking out whatever I can take out but not too much.
BEHAR: You renovate chicken pot pie did you say?
FRANKEL: I do.
BEHAR: How do you do that?
FRANKEL: I make it lighter. You really don`t need to use a lot of butter and a lot of white flour. You can use the whole wheat crust or you can use the white crust. The crust is probably about 100 to 120 calories. It`s the inside that`s fattening, all the butter and all that thick stuff...
BEHAR: Yes. The best part.
FRANKEL: I know, but you can make it good, make it healthy.
BEHAR: I know. All right, whatever. Listen...
FRANKEL: You`re like, screw you, I`m getting the real chicken pot pie.
BEHAR: If I were to pull three things out of your book that I should follow, what are they?
FRANKEL: The first thing is to not -- don`t go for the fat free, don`t go for the (INAUDIBLE) you have to -- quality versus quantity. If you want ice cream, don`t go buy fat-free frozen yogurt, have a small, real ice cream.
BEHAR: Ok. Number two?
FRANKEL: Number two is a variety. Have a lot of bright colors and a lot of different variety.
And number three, it has to be easy and accessible. All these recipes, I teach you how to use what you have in your house already.
It`s like, you put a scarf on. Is this a scarf? You put your earrings on. That`s accessorizing. You have things in your house and you just pull in a couple of things at the supermarket. I don`t like to go and shop for 25 ingredients when I`m cooking for myself or one person and be overwhelmed. I like it to be easy and I like to accessorize. And I think about it.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you, Bethenny. Don`t go anywhere because you`re sitting there.
Her new book is "The Skinny Girl Dish: Easy recipes for your naturally thin life". Back in a minute. She`ll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Fans of "2 1/2 Men" can breathe a sigh of relief. Charlie Sheen has returned to the set to get back to work on his highly rated sitcom. That comes after being arrested Christmas day on domestic violence allegations. Here to talk about this with me and a lot more are Bethenny Frankel, author of the Skinny Girl Dish and star of "The Real Housewives Wives of New York City" and comedian extraordinaire Paul Provenza. Hi guys.
BETHENNY FRANKEL, AUTHOR, AND STAR: Hi.
PAUL PROVENZA, COMEDIAN: Hi.
BEHAR: Now, do you think it`s acceptable for Sheen to go back to work so quickly after he allegedly beat up his wife?
PROVENZA: Well I think after such a horrible incident of abuse, to allow him to abuse the public by doing another episode of that show.
BEHAR: Exactly.
FRANKEL: I think he should be in a confined environment.
BEHAR: A confined environment.
FRANKEL: Right, he should have activities that don`t involve weapons. I think it`s good, it`s like a child putting him in a time-out. He like has to play and work well with others.
BEHAR: But what about CBS? Where are they coming from with this?
PROVENZA: You know he has to go back to work to pay the huge divorce settlement that`s clearly in the offing.
BEHAR: Oh my heartbreaks.
PROVENZA: You know.
FRANKEL: Or the $8,500 bail. That`s like the cheapest bail I ever heard in my entire life.
BEHAR: $8,500?
FRANKEL: Right, you held a knife to your wife throat - I don`t understand, $8,500?
BEHAR: It`s enough to buy a couple more weapons.
FRANKEL: Exactly. Exactly. He`s a disaster. He has always been a disaster. Has he ever not been a disaster?
BEHAR: Yes, he has a terrible, terrible history. He had trouble with Denise Richards and all - and a couple other things.
FRANKEL: And people then thought she was partially at fault. And she`s a real great girl. I think it`s really all him. But she sort of took some of the hits.
PROVENZA: Well here`s a couple things I want to talk about him going back to work. Is you know, WE have to remember that that while all indications may seem clear to all of us, really he`s innocence will prove him guilty until he just to say he`s not allowed to go back to work. Or CBS should fire him based on hearsay at this point.
BEHAR: Yes.
PROVENZA: Is just unreasonable. So regardless of --
FRANKEL: That`s fair, I agree. I agree.
PROVENZA: So regardless of any of that this is America still, and you know, we need to think about it that way. The other thing -
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well Tiger Woods wasn`t given the same kind of privilege. I mean he`s lost many sponsors.
FRANKEL: Exactly, exactly.
PROVENZA: That`s not quite the same.
BEHAR: And he -- Why, he didn`t hit anybody.
FRANKEL: Golf is the -
BEHAR: Tiger Woods did not hit anybody, let`s get that clear.
PROVENZA: That`s a contract that he`s entered into with people about his image. His image was a stock and trade.
FRANKEL: But he admitted that he -
PROVENZA: That`s a different situation.
BEHAR: Okay so -
PROVENZA: They are just firing somebody. I mean if you take it out of the fact that he, I mean our way -
FRANKEL: Well golf - you can`t say you can`t play golf again. Golf didn`t say you can`t golf anymore. It`s the people that he`s working for.
BEHAR: So do you think the equivalent would be if the sponsors pulled out of "2 1/2 Men"?
PROVENZA: Well, I suppose.
FRANKEL: Yes. Or he if he had a spokes person deal, which I don`t even think he has, probably because he`s had this checkered test.
BEHAR: Okay. Don`t you think he should be concentrating on his personal life right now rather than worrying about his career?
FRANKEL: Well that`s a good point. He shouldn`t be like hey, I`m going back to work on a comedy.
PROVENZA: Yes but it`s not really a choice. It`s contracts. He`s got a job to do. They got you know studios booked.
FRANKEL: That`s true.
PROVENZA: And do their thing. I know it`s impossible.
(CROSSTALK)
PROVENZA: That`s what I mean. There are so many things that are just kind of like -- if we bring them down to our level, if you`re in the unfortunate situation of having done something in crazy and you`re in trouble, whatever, you know does that mean you shouldn`t go to work until your court case?
BEHAR: Uh huh.
PROVENZA: You know what I mean, clearly it`s something a little different.
FRANKEL: And it`s a business and they realized that it`s not airing now. Those episodes won`t air now.
BEHAR: No.
FRANKEL: So it will be so far away that hopefully everybody will have forgotten it.
BEHAR: That everybody will forget.
FRANKEL: Yes, exactly.
PROVENZA: But really he should be in jail for doing that show. Let`s be honest, the real crime here.
BEHAR: I can see that you don`t care for that show.
(CROSSTALK)
PROVENZA: The real crime here is" 2 1/2 Men." let`s --
FRANKEL: It must have - it`s been doing really well though.
BEHAR: Yes. It`s a big -
FRANKEL: It`s made a big tone of money, I haven`t seen it.
PROVENZA: Of course it is. And I don`t know if you`ve heard about this but McDonald`s sells a lot of burgers.
FRANKEL: They do -
PROVENZA: Yes.
FRANKEL: I`m pregnant, I want one now. Don`t even talk about it.
PROVENZA: Oh really.
FRANKEL: I`m a natural food check.
PROVENZA: Are they connected or something?
BEHAR: All right, let`s change the subject, I want to talk about Beyonce.
FRANKEL: Oh yes.
BEHAR: Beyonce just did a concert in St. Bart`s for Gadhafi`s son. Okay, it was New Year`s Eve and she did a concert. The guy has -- the son, and we know the father is a terrorist, you know, but the son has a bad record also. I`ll read you a couple things that he has done. In 2005, he was fined and given a suspended prison sentence for beating his then girlfriend who then became his wife. Hello, another one. On Christmas, police are called to his London hotel room and found his wife with facial injuries, including a broken nose, the same one he hit when she was a girlfriend. His wife said the charges were from a fall.
PROVENZA: This was happening in Libya? Where he use to --
BEHAR: No. I don`t know where it was happening. That I don`t know.
FRANKEL: Oh it doesn`t count if it`s in Libya?
PROVENZA: No.
BEHAR: What`s the difference?
PROVENZA: No, what I`m saying is that if in fact this is the Libyan authorities going after him for these things. You can only imagine what they`re not going after him for.
BEHAR: Exactly.
FRANKEL: Oh right.
BEHAR: But he also attacked three Italian policemen, I guess this was in Italy in 2001 with a fire extinguisher. Now the question is.
PROVENZA: Wow he`s creative, he goes after people with strange things.
BEHAR: Yes, the guy is a whack job. Let`s face it.
PROVENZA: True. They`re prepared with like the red brigade, but you know, a guy coming out with a fire extinguisher, that - you know, he`s a smart cookie.
BEHAR: That`s true, but now is it the performer`s responsibility, you and I do standup, you`re a performer too, but not the same kind of thing.
FRANKEL: I - I, yes, you still have to be, you still have to have a conscience and think about what you`re doing. What you are endorsing.
BEHAR: Isn`t it her responsibility, the name Gadhafi should have rung a bell right there. Don`t you think?
FRANKEL: Whoever is handling her or managing her should be like, that`s not a really good idea. You don`t need the money. I mean, you need -
BEHAR: That`s another point.
FRANKEL: We`d put her up on the pedestal. I mean she`s Beyonce, she`s sort of perfect in a lot of ways.
BEHAR: But how much money does she need? She`s getting about $1 million to $2 million allegedly for the gig.
PROVENZA: Need is a strong word.
FRANKEL: Right
PROVENZA: But that`s besides the point really.
FRANKEL: And it`s easy money I guess for her. She`s sings a couple of songs --
PROVENZA: Here`s where I have to be difficult again. Because you know -
BEHAR: Sure go right ahead.
PROVENZA: That`s what I do.
BEHAR: Yes.
FRANKEL: Has it gone back to work again.
(CROSSTALK)
PROVENZA: Here`s the thing is that I think that everybody has to have their own personal integrity and everybody has to make their own choices.
BEHAR: Right.
PROVENZA: She should be judged for making a choice like that if in fact she was even aware of it.
FRANKEL: I think ignorance is bliss. She had no idea --
PROVENZA: But here`s where I`m really going, here`s where I`m really going with this. Then it also behooves every journalist that`s going after the Beyonce story to then investigate every other connection that that man, Gadhafi`s son and Gadhafi in general, and that whole phenomenon.
BEHAR: Yes.
PROVENZA: Let`s see all the corporations that they`re doing business with and let`s see all the agencies they`re involved with. And that won`t happen because they`re all connected.
FRANKEL: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
PROVENZA: Because it`s all big business. While you look at the people who do that thing -
FRANKEL: All right.
PROVENZA: It`s like every head of state has their big corporate connections and friends and everything. So, all I`m saying is -
(CROSSTALK)
FRANKEL: Fun to talk about.
PROVENZA: I know.
FRANKEL: That`s boring.
PROVENZA: I know.
FRANKEL: They`re not going to -
PROVENZA: I, I know.
FRANKEL: You know.
BEHAR: All right, you know what I`ll tell you who else was at the party?
PROVENZA: I know.
BEHAR: Can I tell you guys who else were at the party?
PROVENZA: Did they crash or a couple of other things.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Jay-Z, Jay-Z.
PROVENZA: Yes.
BEHAR: Lindsay Lohan, Paul Alan and Usher. Somebody said it`s like the Betty Ford clinic.
FRANKEL: No - celebrity week
PROVENZA: No the people that you`re not mentioning because they are boring that are really interesting which is the heads of multinational corporations and the CIA.
BEHAR: I know, it`s a bit -- it`s bigger than both of us.
PROVENZA: Yes. All I`m saying, you might be very right to judge Beyonce, but don`t stop there. Let`s look at what`s really going on. Let`s look at all the other things we should be judging.
BEHAR: I know I only have time to judge Beyonce.
PROVENZA: Well I didn`t mean right now.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: She should do a nice reality show -
FRANKEL: Joy -
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She`d be up with the Gadhafis. Okay, another story, the octomom`s fertility doctor is being accused of gross negligence by the California medical board. The board said the doctor screwed up by authorizing the series of fertility procedures on Nadya Suleman that lead to the birth of the octuplets. Okay, so what about that story?
FRANKEL: If she had six kids first. And then let`s ring the bell again.
BEHAR: That`s right.
FRANKEL: Oh wow.
BEHAR: Right the bell again.
FRANKEL: Oh let`s ring the bell again for eight more because 14 is just not --
BEHAR: Now radaronline, before we start talking, caught up with her and this is what she had to say about the doctor being suspended. Let`s watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NADYA SULEMAN: I hope not. He did nothing wrong. He did absolutely nothing wrong. What am I going to do if ever in the future I wanted to do it again? Really, what am I going to do?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Okay if she doesn`t care? Why do we care is my question?
FRANKEL: Well because they`re saying it`s not good for children. Also who can really properly alone raise 14 kids? I mean, you know what I mean it`s not - it`s like child protective services should come in.
BEHAR: You know what I`ve seen women with just one child that are less cheerful than this woman. She`s always cheerful.
FRANKEL: Well cheerful doesn`t mean -- but she`s probably on Prozac.
BEHAR: She - I hope she`s no Prozac.
PROVENZA: Again, I`m so ambivalent about this because on one hand. I feel absolutely, it`s a horrible thing to do, there is some case to be made that this is abusive to her children -- all of them, this is irresponsible, this is societally dangerous, all those things.
BEHAR: Yes.
PROVENZA: But then at the same time I also kind of feel like that`s what happens when you give reality shows to people who do lunatic things.
BEHAR: Exactly.
PROVENZA: Because people start to do more lunatic things.
BEHAR: But you know what, it`s the chicken/egg problem. They`re lunatics, that`s why they take their shows. Thank you very much guys.
FRANKEL: Thank you.
BEHAR: Back in a minute with "Morning Joe`s Mika Brzezinski. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Mika Brzezinski doing battle with her morning show co-host, Joe Scarborough. They`re sort of like the Frazier and Ali of morning talk. Joining me now is Mika Brzezinski, co host of MSNBC`s Morning Joe and author of the new memoir titled "All Things At Once." welcome, Mika.
MIKA BRZEZINSKI, AUTHOR: Thanks for having me.
BEHAR: You`re welcome. It`s nice to be had.
BRZEZINSKI: Yes it is, isn`t it?
BEHAR: Yes.
BRZEZINSKI: That`s a whole different show. We`ll talk about that - okay.
BEHAR: Some other time. But you know I watch the show a lot. And I like it.
BRZEZINSKI: Thank you.
BEHAR: I watch CNN of course, also.
BRZEZINSKI: Right, right.
BEHAR: I watch both shows.
BRZEZINSKI: Me too.
BEHAR: But the show is very popular in certain circles, I noticed.
BRZEZINSKI: Yes.
BEHAR: You get a lot of the elites.
BRZEZINSKI: It`s a boutique show that has an audience of its own that we`ve discovered. And, that sort of exciting.
BEHAR: Well how did you get the job?
BRZEZINSKI: Well I actually didn`t have a job for quite some time. And decided you know what I really want to work in television. So I`m going to have to start all over again. And I called MSNBC and said do you have another job that was kind of too crazy for my kids, that I was just about to sign the contract for. I called MSNBC and said what do you have? I want to work. I`m really tired of not working.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
BRZEZINSKI: And they said nothing that you`d want. And I said tell me what you have. And they said, well, we`ve got this day rate gig where you can read 30-second updates and I said I`ll take it.
BEHAR: You`ll take it.
BRZEZINSKI: Yes. Because it was a way to step back in.
BEHAR: Yes, get your foot in the door.
BRZEZINSKI: But not like a jagged turn for the kids because I`ve been stuck at home for a year looking for a job. And I`ve been through that with me and I kind of thought I owed it to them not to jump back in full force. So this was definitely laid back. But I would do those little like news updates between "Hardball" and Scarborough Country, so I would say the news and say, "now back to "Hardball."" or I`d say, "Now back to "Scarborough Country"".
BEHAR: Oh that was you?
BRZEZINSKI: Yes.
BEHAR: But did you feel underutilized?
BRZEZINSKI: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean you must have felt like I`m wasting time --
BRZEZINSKI: Oh no, I was totally underutilized and loving every moment of it.
BEHAR: You did.
BRZEZINSKI: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Because you could have more time with the kids?
BRZEZINSKI: I needed to ease back in at this point. I had been home a long time and learned a lot of lessons about scrambling to make a career work. And I kind of owed it to them to pace myself. And this was the good choice.
BEHAR: The book shows that there was not an easy road for you, getting to where you got.
BRZEZINSKI: It`s not an easy business.
BEHAR: You had, you encountered I would assume some sexism.
BRZEZINSKI: Sure.
BEHAR: Tell me about that.
BRZEZINSKI: Well have you encountered sexism in television?
BEHAR: Well you know with women comedians, it`s more about the guys at the top think men are funnier. So it`s harder to get a gig.
BRZEZINSKI: Interesting.
BEHAR: It`s not like they`re coming on to us because they`re afraid of our mouths, I guess.
BRZEZINSKI: Oh interesting.
BEHAR: It`s a different kind of sexism.
BRZEZINSKI: Yes, know, that makes sense.
BEHAR: Because I think with you being an on-air what do you call --
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah, sure. You`re a piece of meat.
BEHAR: An -
BRZEZINSKI: No, anchor. Right.
BEHAR: Anchorette.
BRZEZINSKI: Piece of meat. Depending on how you look at it. You`re a commodity. And you`ve got to somehow transcend that. And I think that, sure, I`ve been on every end of it actually in terms of sexism in the workplace. And you know what? That`s not really what I like to focus on. I like to focus on what I did to transcend it.
BEHAR: Well you have to keep going. I mean -
BRZEZINSKI: And you got to find a way to make it work and be a really good, honest worker with something to offer and not focus on whatever --
BEHAR: And learn how to give them a little karate chop too while you`re at it.
BRZEZINSKI: Or just say that`s not your cup of tip.
BEHAR: Yes, well we also suffer from ageism in the business, but I mean, I think it`s getting better.
BRZEZINSKI: Yes.
BEHAR: Look at Diane Sawyer, she`s 64 years old, I understand. Although maybe she`s 63. But who`s counting.
BRZEZINSKI: Whatever.
BEHAR: But she`s got the biggest job now that you can have in network news.
BRZEZINSKI: It`s exciting.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRZEZINSKI: And I will say that I`ve wanted to do television since I was 14, since I watched my dad get interviewed.
BEHAR: Your dad is Zbigniew.
BRZEZINSKI: Zbigniew.
BEHAR: Oh, oh, it`s Zbigniew.
BRZEZINSKI: Or how else you want to say it.
BEHAR: Isn`t there a W, Polish is so crazy.
BRZEZINSKI: It is - crazy.
BEHAR: I can`t, yes. Zbigniew Brzezinski.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And you know I happen to be a huge fan of his. I think he is very brilliant.
BRZEZINSKI: Thank you.
BEHAR: And whatever he`s on, he always makes sense.
BRZEZINSKI: Yes.
BEHAR: That must make you feel so good to have your father on the show with you.
BRZEZINSKI: He`s brilliant.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRZEZINSKI: I`m overwhelmed and I actually revert to maybe a 12 year old, when I see him, when I`m on the air with him. And it`s sort of hard when you go home -- to be on the air with your father.
BEHAR: Is Joe intimidated by him?
BRZEZINSKI: No. Actually the two of them together is enough to give me -- I get stressed.
BEHAR: I watched it one time when he said to Joe, what did he say?
BRZEZINSKI: No.
BEHAR: Don`t go there.
BRZEZINSKI: That was one botched New Year.
BEHAR: That was -- he made a joke of it. Joe was stellar --
BRZEZINSKI: Oh no he was great. He was terrific.
BEHAR: Now, I was reading the book and it seems as though you were overextended, a lot of it, of your career, too much work, too many, the kids and the work, it was hard to put it together.
BRZEZINSKI: Well what I hope I make the point of is that`s the imposition I put on myself. And that`s the lack of value I had in myself, in my abilities, and my confidence. And that is, I guess, the message. Because a lot of the choices I made had tough consequences along the way. And many of them were not good choices.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRZEZINSKI: I don`t regret having a career. I need one. I love it.
BEHAR: We all need one.
BRZEZINSKI: But I will say that there are better choices I could have made along had I had more self-confidence about what I bring to the table.
BEHAR: Right. But there was a moment that was quite devastating I think that I read about in the book about -- that you were so overextended. Tell me the story.
BRZEZINSKI: Well that`s exactly my point about self-value because I was working at the overnight anchor at CBS. And it`s a freelance gig but you get to anchor a network broadcast, in the middle of the night. And I had a 2-year-old, I had just moved and we got pregnant and had another baby coming and I worked the bone and didn`t you know have enough money to really have incredible child care and tried to really be a full-time mom, full-time worker and full-time wife and I wanted to be perfect at it all. And I tried to do it all for everybody. And was just beginning to spin. I lost sleep. I wasn`t healthy. And the bottom line is, and here`s the bad decision, is that when I took a few weeks off to have a baby, I went back too early. I felt I needed to get back so I could get the salary going again because it was freelance, you didn`t get paid for maternity leave. And what if they replaced me? And I need to keep this career going, and I`m just 30 years old and just starting and I don`t want to let this go. And I want to be good for everybody. Well, you know, my body was not ready to go back to an overnight shift.
BEHAR: Neither was your head.
BRZEZINSKI: Oh my god and you should have seen me. There`s some pictures that ain`t pretty. Oh no, oh no, come one.
BEHAR: Tell me what happened how did you --
BRZEZINSKI: Well, I went back to work for a few weeks. I was exhausted. I didn`t - I kicked myself thinking why can`t you do this? On a Friday afternoon I was letting the babysitter go, getting the 2-year-old and the newborn back into my custody and walked right off the top of the staircase and fell down to the bottom with my newborn in my arms and ultimately she ended up underneath me at the bottom.
BEHAR: The infant?
BRZEZINSKI: Yes.
BEHAR: Uh-huh. What happened to her?
BRZEZINSKI: Well, that day we spent numerous hours in the hospital. She stopped moving. They couldn`t get any response out of her toes and at one point they were talking about spinal cord damage. And I remember just having this sick awful, wanting to die feeling that my rush to be all things at once.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRZEZINSKI: . actually led to me hurting my child in a permanent way, and it was defining. And it led to the reason why I took the scaled-back job at MSNBC, and that was my lesson in life that I didn`t want to repeat.
BEHAR: It`s a terrible -- that must have been a terrible time for you.
BRZEZINSKI: It was horrific. She had a broken leg. She was in a body cast for eight weeks and traction for five weeks.
BEHAR: Oh my god.
BRZEZINSKI: The cutest baby in traction you can find .
BEHAR: I can imagine.
BRZEZINSKI: There`s a picture there.
BEHAR: But she`s okay?
BRZEZINSKI: She is okay.
BEHAR: And everything turned out okay.
BRZEZINSKI: It did.
BEHAR: You now know that you have to pace yourself.
BRZEZINSKI: Yes, but you know what a lot of people when I tell this - how cute is she? When I tell this story -- that was our Christmas card from the parents of the year because we learned to laugh.
BEHAR: Yes, I saw that. I have to go, Mika. I`m sorry to interrupt you. But you know television; you`re in the same --
BRZEZINSKI: I`m in it. Wrap it up, baby bee.
BEHAR: More with Mika when we come right back. We`ll be back. I`m sorry.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We are back with the host Morning Joe, Mika Brzezinski who is now on the show, Evening Joy.
BRZEZINSKI: Hah, I love it, it`s a good show.
BEHAR: Thank you. Okay. Now, in the book you describe something called a bad boyfriend job.
BRZEZINSKI: Have you ever had a bad boyfriend?
BEHAR: Of course, who hasn`t? But bad boyfriend job, what made you make that lead?
BRZEZINSKI: Well a bad boyfriend job are jobs that you give everything to. You give everything to. And they give you nothing back. And, in fact, in the end they really don`t care about you that much but you sit there holding on to hope and doing everything to make it work for them because you think that permanent position or that job that want or that promotion you want will happen. And I think in this business a lot of these women allow these jobs to become bad boyfriends.
BEHAR: In television and the media.
BRZEZINSKI: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Yes. And the stakes in the media are high too so people do stay there.
BRZEZINSKI: Yes. And at are CBS, I loved CBS and I loved my work there. But I let it become bad boyfriend. I was all things to all people, running around and pleasing everybody and then you kind of forget who you are.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRZEZINSKI: And you got to find your niche.
BEHAR: Yes.
BRZEZINSKI: And know your boys and your value. And I ultimately didn`t allow that to happen at NBC, but it took a lot of work to get to a point where you could say, you`re a bad boy friend.
BEHAR: Well you talk about being a perfectionist, which is interesting to me. Were you raised in some way that would lead to you being a perfectionist?
BRZEZINSKI: I was actually.
BEHAR: You have a very famous father.
BRZEZINSKI: I do.
BEHAR: And your mother in a artist.
BRZEZINSKI: A sculptor.
BEHAR: A sculptor.
BRZEZINSKI: And she has a great show coming up next month in New York City. She`s amazing.
BEHAR: Oh that`s nice, what`s her name?
BRZEZINSKI: Her name is Emily Brzezinski.
BEHAR: Okay. I mean that`s a high roller family.
BRZEZINSKI: Yes.
BEHAR: So I would think that you have to jump through high hoops for them to get there.
BRZEZINSKI: Well you know, it`s funny I always felt like I couldn`t keep up with them. You know my brothers, one is a very successful Republican, foreign policy expert. And my other brother a Democrat --
BEHAR: Oh the boys, the over achieving boys are difficult in a family.
BRZEZINSKI: Amazing. Yes so that`s -- and I was sort of the one kind of flailing in the back. And you know, 8I don`t think perfectionist is a word that I would use for myself. I`m working at it.
BEHAR: No but being a perfectionist is not a good thing.
BRZEZINSKI: Oh okay.
BEHAR: It`s not. It`s like you have to sort of always be perfect.
BRZEZINSKI: Oh I`m definitely not that.
BEHAR: But you shouldn`t want to be that because all it does is give you anxiety and make you crazy.
BRZEZINSKI: You`re right.
BEHAR: And you probably trip up. That`s part of the reason maybe that you this accident. You wanted to get it right, you wanted to do it all, it`s not good.
BRZEZINSKI: And I wanted to get it right in what wasn`t - in what was a totally impossible dream, to be a great wife, to be a great mom all the time, and to great at something that you do.
BEHAR: It`s impossible to do.
BRZEZINSKI: It`s totally impossible.
BEHAR: It`s like the way we use to feel about finding a man that is perfect. We know that that man does not exist.
BRZEZINSKI: No, they are not out there, which is why --
BEHAR: There is no perfect man out there.
BRZEZINSKI: Yes, I mean my advice to young people is if you want to get married, start looking. Because there are a lot of choices out there.
BEHAR: Start looking now.
BRZEZINSKI: Yes.
BEHAR: And the bad boyfriend job just to say something about that. I think that in this economy, people have to stay with it sometimes.
BRZEZINSKI: Absolutely.
BEHAR: You know, it`s a tough thing.
BRZEZINSKI: Absolutely. Yes.
BEHAR: You know not everybody has the luxury. You didn`t.
BRZEZINSKI: No, I didn`t. It took a long time to be able to kind of demand that you are heard as a real, you know, spouse.
BEHAR: Right.
BRZEZINSKI: And I asked NBC to marry me. They ultimately did but it took a little doing.
BEHAR: Well you got the divorce. And thanks so much for doing this. Good luck with your book.
BRZEZINSKI: Thank you for having me.
BEHAR: Thank you and thanks to all of my guests for joining me tonight. Good night, everybody.
END
