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JOY BEHAR SHOW
Tiger Woods in Rehab?; Late Night Face-Off; Palin`s Broadcast Appeal
Aired January 13, 2010 - 21:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, "People" magazine reports that Tiger Woods is in Arizona and he may have entered a sex rehab clinic. Is he trying to fix his marriage? Clean up his image? Or is he just trying to meet women with asthma. You decide.
Then Jay Leno takes a shot at NBC. Jimmy Kimmel takes a swipe at Leno. And Conan O`Brien takes a pass on following Jay. I`m having trouble following any of it.
And she turns fat into thin and losers into winners. Trainer extraordinaire Jillian Michaels of "The Biggest Loser" joins me. If she asks me to do a sit up I`ll have to kill her.
All this and more starting now.
Tiger Woods is still missing and no one misses him more than I do. But here`s the scoop: according to "People" magazine, Tiger isn`t missing at all, he`s in sex rehab at a clinic in Arizona. "People" also reports he`ll be out by Valentine`s Day and that`s important because let`s face it, the man has a lot of shopping to do.
Here with the latest dirt on Tiger`s clean up are Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of VH1`s "Celebrity Rehab 3"; Stephen A. Smith, columnist for the "Philadelphia Inquirer" and syndicated radio talk show host; and David Caplan, senior editor of "People" magazine.
Ok. Dave, is it true he`s in rehab in Arizona?
DAVID CAPLAN, SENIOR EDITOR, "PEOPLE" MAGAZIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Tell me.
CAPLAN: Sources are saying that he actually entered there around the holidays, Christmas time. It`s in Arizona at the Meadows. And that he`s going to be there about four or five weeks which will bring it to Valentine`s Day, so maybe perfect time for reunion date or something.
BEHAR: With the wife?
CAPLAN: I don`t know. I don`t think she`s interested.
But maybe there in this clinic actually, they specialize in sex addiction as well as other addictions, drugs and so forth.
And the town outside -- the town there is buzzing about him being there. People are even -- pizza shops are putting out signs welcoming him to the community.
BEHAR: Really? That`s so sweet.
He`s in rehab. Where`s the wife?
CAPLAN: The wife, I know she`s in south Florida still, near Windermere. She`s been photographed dropping the kids off, taking them to the play ground. And that she`s staying at her home. We`re not sure if it`s whether -- we`re not sure whether or not it`s one of the Woods` homes or a rented home, but she`s down there. She`s seen walking around, being photographed. And a friend of hers tells people that the message she wants to said the people that, "I`m ok and I`m basically moving on without Tiger."
BEHAR: Without him. No wedding ring, nothing.
CAPLAN: She`s not wearing a wedding ring, nothing.
BEHAR: I read somewhere, maybe in "People", that they had a joint therapy session over the holidays.
CAPLAN: Yes, actually over the holidays, we are reporting that a source tells us she actually went to California and that her and Tiger, they went to joint counseling sessions together to work over their issues.
BEHAR: Did it work? I guess not.
CAPLAN: No -- you know it really didn`t work out. And also they have also been trading phone calls as well. He really wants to get back together with her.
BEHAR: He does?
BEHAR: All right. Well, Dr. Drew, is Tiger a...
DR. DREW PINSKY, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: What do you think, is he a sex addict? You`re an expert on this. Is he a sex addict or is just a horny guy or a love addict? I love that expression, a love addict.
PINSKY: Right. You asked several questions here. It certainly has all the earmarks of sexual compulsion, right. And what makes him different than just somebody who is sexually -- very sexually active is this has caused him great harm, great personal pain. He wants to change. He is ashamed of it. It has destroyed his family.
These are all the signs of a sexual addiction. You bring up the love addiction piece. And that`s the fact that not only is he going out and acting out sexually but he`s actually developing his relationships with people where he actually tries to control them, he feels bad if they see other people. That`s the love addiction piece of this.
BEHAR: Because I mean, the guy does sounds -- it sounds from some of the stuff I`ve read, it sounds as though he tells them he cares about them and they love him and each one of these women thinks that he loves them more than the others. It sounds like -- remember in the old days -- women who love men too much and men who love women who hate men -- or whatever the heck it was. I mean it was sort of like that again with him.
PINSKY: And Joy, really it begs no discussion any longer. If he`s at the Meadows, that`s a program that treats addiction. You have to, by law, you have to meet criteria for addiction to be admitted to a program like that. That`s the way the regulations stand. Whether or not it`s a chemical addiction and/or a sex/love addiction, we may never know. But addiction is now the diagnosis because that`s where he is, evidently, allegedly.
BEHAR: One more question on sex addiction. When you have a sex addiction, do you also have another addiction or is it like alcohol?
PINSKY: It`s very common. We don`t know what the primary issue is here. For instance, many opiate addicts and even alcoholics will behave exactly in this manner and when you treat their primary addiction -- their chemical addiction, the sexual piece settles down. Whether that`s primary or whether the sex and relationship issue is the primary issue, that`s really his issue.
But I have to say here Joy, it`s really important for me to say this. Whenever I have treated patients like this that have a big public profile where there`s lots of public discussion and people are sort of demeaning them and making fun of them for the actions they have taken or for their behaviors prior to treatment, when I then sit down and close the door with these patients, you cannot imagine how profound the pain is they`re in. Not only are they publicly shamed and humiliated, they`re carrying the pain of the shame of this behavior with the destruction of their family and their lives. It is overwhelmingly painful.
BEHAR: But I mean, when you`re an alcoholic and then you stop drinking, people just always say, I`m still an alcoholic. Are you always going to be a sex addict? Like that?
PINSKY: It`s a little bit of a semantic issue. Some people say that it takes about three to five years to completely treat a sex addict. And there are theories that you could completely treat them. So I guess...
BEHAR: That`s a lot of babies in those years. A lot of damage could be done in those years.
PINSKY: That`s absolutely true. Well, during the treatment presumably they`re not continuing to act out. But one of the sad things about Tiger`s case is you really want the spouse. You want the partner involved; that can hasten the improvement. That can really get them to a great place together. The outcomes can be quite good.
I`m sure what they were meeting about back in California is whether or not she`s willing to commit to this relationship and do some work.
CAPLAN: Right now she`s not really willing to commit. She doesn`t want -- she`s really not taking any of his calls, she`s being strong. She doesn`t want to be part of any really -- even anything that`s a PR stunt on his behalf. Sources told us if he`s not genuine, she doesn`t want anything to do with it.
BEHAR: Ok. Let`s talk about his image for a minute. Stephen, is the rehab sort of going to be fixing his image, do you think?
STEPHEN A. SMITH, COLUMNIST, PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER: No. I don`t care what anybody says. This is just ridiculous. I`m sorry, listen, I`ve been watching Dr. Drew for years, I have profound respect for him. Dave does a phenomenal job for "People" magazine. I`m not trying to dismiss anything. But let`s just call it what it is, the man loved women.
If you want to point to his sex addiction, let me tell you some nuggets of information that might have some credibility with this. If it is true that he was messing with porn stars unprotected, that`s a legitimate case to say that somebody is sexually addicted, because that`s just flat-out stupid. If he sat there and had these women in his home while his pregnant wife was out, that`s another form of stupidity of the highest degree.
So you can look at that from that standpoint and say maybe, just maybe there`s a sexual addiction.
But everything else, last time I checked, it falls right back to what Chris Rock, the comedian, said years ago when he said a man is as faithful as his options.
He`s Tiger Woods. He`s a billionaire. He`s got hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars; women are throwing themselves at him. And it`s a matter of looking at the situation on far too many occasions. And even Dr. Drew must admit this where men are sitting there and they`re going like this, "If I`m not attracted to you, it`s no big deal. If you`re too much work and I got to chase you, I`m not interested in that. But if you come to me on a silver platter and you are fine."
The first question a guy is asking is, can I get away with this? It`s unfortunate, but it is something that has happened over and over and over again and the only reason that people hesitate to acknowledge it is because we live in an oprahfied world where it`s just not wise to just come out there and admit that as a man, period.
BEHAR: Dr. Drew, would you like to respond to that?
PINSKY: I just love hearing Stephen talk. I`m very entertained by it.
And I know the point he`s making and the differences between men and women are things that I like to shine a bright light on as well and the motivational differences of what you`re talking about. But let`s look at it from the stand point of a licensed institution under state regulatory standards. If they have not admitted somebody with a medical syndrome that meets criteria, they got big problems. They may want to talk to Stephen because they`re in big trouble.
PINSKY: Let me say this to you, Dr. Drew, in regards to what you just said. Who is deciding that criteria? I`m willing to bet my check -- and it`s not that much by the way, Joy -- we can talk about that another time - - but I`m willing to bet my check that there are an abundance of women on that board defining the criteria.
We`re talking about men here. Listen, sit a physical thing. We covet what we see. This is why women walk out -- they know when they`re dressing well, they know when they`re looking fine, they know that men are coveting them. And it`s like -- all I`m saying is this. Some men are worse than others. But at the same time...
BEHAR: What is a woman supposed to do Stephen? What are we supposed to do, lock you guys up in the attic?
SMITH: No, Joy. What you`re supposed to do is be judicious because - - and the reality is, and you are the most honest person in America when it comes to what I`m about to say. You look at a situation and define what you want. If you want this particular guy, you might not have a problem with what you got to work through. If you don`t want him, you`re not interested in tolerating that. You know that as a woman. Let`s not play these games.
BEHAR: Ok, I`m not playing any games with you I tell you that right now.
The other thing about this story that interested me is that Mel Gibson is saying he feels sorry for Tiger. Wait till he finds out Tiger is Jewish.
But Dr. Drew, let me ask you another question. You have MacKenzie Phillips coming on your show?
PINSKI: Yes. No, MacKenzie we treated her back in the spring and she told me about what had happened but she asked that we not talk about it on camera because she had this book coming out and it really was not germane to the treatment she was doing at the time.
PINSKY: ... most opiate addicts -- you need to know but Joy, most opiate addicts I treat have trauma, sexual trauma being the most common, often with very close family members. This is nothing unusual in my world.
MacKenzie was actually a guest on my radio show "Love Line" last night and we talked in great detail of what had happened.
And she told me that he would inject her with drugs and the first time she remembers waking up having sex with him was 18 but she`s sure it happened away before that. And then she adopted sort of this, what she perceived to be consent to it, when in fact you can`t consent for that kind of thing. That`s just a child`s distortion of an overwhelmingly traumatic experience.
BEHAR: Well, we look forward to seeing that. Thank you, everybody, for being on the show.
And don`t forget to watch Dr. Drew, host of VH1`s "Celebrity Rehab" Thursdays 10:00 p.m.
Up next, how did Conan do last night after throwing NBC under the bus? I`ll tell you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONAN O`BRIAN, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH CONAN O`BRIEN": NBC says that they are planning to have the late night situation worked out before the Winter Olympics start. I said, yes and trust me, when NBC says something, you can take that to the bank.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: The late night programming drama at NBC continues and I love it. It`s like a lifetime movie but with testosterone.
While Jay Leno continues to make jokes about being canceled, Conan said he wouldn`t move to the tonight show to 12:05. I don`t see all this fighting over time slots, personally I`m on at 9:00, midnight and 5:00 a.m. all live, yes.
So now that Conan`s refusing to let NBC treat him like the redheaded stepchild, what happens next?
Joining me for a briefing on the late night wars are Roy Sekoff, founding editor of the HuffingtonPost.com, HuffingtonPost.com. Ok and Stephanie Miller, host of the "Stephanie Miller Show". What an idea.
Now, the guy says no, he says "screw you" to NBC, right?
ROY SEKOFF, FOUNDING EDITOR, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: Yes.
BEHAR: Didn`t they see that coming?
SEKOFF: Well, they needed to see this coming five years ago...
SEKOFF: ... when they thought they were like the guy on "Big Love" and you can have all the wives.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
SEKOFF: You know, we want to have Jimmy, we want to have Freddie, we want to have Jay and Conan. We`ll have them all together and I`ll play you the field, yes. It just doesn`t work like that.
BEHAR: Are they just dense or what? Didn`t they think he would say no?
STEPHANIE MILLER, HOST, "THE STEPHANIE MILLER SHOW": Well, yes, who would have known there were so many screw-ups that were not from the Bush administration? Yes, NBC executives, what were they thinking that they could put out a press release before they even cleared it with Conan? So and I don`t know this -- just bump everybody like eventually do -- you get to like sell the juicer and then you`re the host of the "Today Show" if you`re on late enough -- like if you`re...
BEHAR: I don`t know how that works but maybe.
BEHAR: I mean, last night on Conan they gave him a standing ovation...
BEHAR: ... which I thought was interesting. That means that the audience is behind him and they don`t like what`s going on.
SEKOFF: Well, it`s very complicated, though.
SEKOFF: ... as you followed the story, in the beginning Jay was kind of the one who they sort of pushed out and then he was the good guy...
SEKOFF: ... who said, ok, I`ll take 10:00, I`ll take anything. And now sort of it`s going the other way where they`re sort of pushing back and Conan suddenly like the victim.
BEHAR: I know, it`s true and Leno seems to be the target. Jimmy Kimmel is getting into the act. Last night he dressed up his Leno, take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": My name is Jay Leno and let it hereby be known that I`m taking over all the shows in late night, beginning with this one.
It`s great to be here on ABC. You know what ABC stands for?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, man, I don`t.
KIMMEL: Always bump Conan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So why is he taking shots at Leno?
SEKOFF: Well, I think two -- one thing is he wants to be part of the conversation.
SEKOFF: So if he`s not doing Matt Damon or Ben Affleck in the videos, he`s not getting much press.
BEHAR: I see.
SEKOFF: And here he is today we have him on the Huffington Post. It worked.
BEHAR: I see, but Leno is the bad guy in all of this all of a sudden.
MILLER: Well, you know, it raises an interesting point in the beginning you kind of go they sort of did the same thing to him they did to Carson like he was number one and you are going and all they had to bump him for the guy that is younger and whatever and then Conan has not been doing well. Letterman has been beating him.
MILLER: So you`re right, it`s like this is you know, like Leno said, they wanted drama at 10:00, now they`ve got it.
MILLER: So you know it`s...
BEHAR: If they pushed the "Tonight" show to 12:05 which is what they`re saying they want to do with Conan, it`s not the "Tonight Show" then its tomorrow.
SEKOFF: Then you got to bring Tom Schneider back.
BEHAR: But he...
MILLER: Oh, yes we kind of...
BEHAR: The late great, he`s good.
SEKOFF: Yes, fabulous though.
BEHAR: But since it`s the "Tomorrow Show" all of a sudden, can`t Conan then say listen, give me the $45 million, it`s not the "Tonight Show" anymore.
MILLER: But that was in his contract.
SEKOFF: Well, I think, that -- I think that`s what he`s going to do.
SEKOFF: I mean, he can`t just be pushed around like that.
I think the hardest thing is remember how many interviews he gave before the show premiered and saying my whole dream since I was eight years old was to be the host of "The Tonight Show" and then suddenly after 10 months, they`re going to go, I know you moved from New York, you moved your family, you moved your entire crew out, sorry, it didn`t work.
SEKOFF: I mean, he`s got to walk.
BEHAR: There`s something evil about it and what about the network executives who put them in this position. They seem to always emerge unscathed in all of this. They`ll get a bigger job.
This guy, Jeff Zucker, I mean, Maureen Dowd took him to task today. Did you read her column?
MILLER: I didn`t see that...
BEHAR: There he is, there`s a picture of him. He was (INAUDIBLE) at NBC in his 20s and the early 30s and now he`s being pilloried for making this decision. What do you think?
MILLER: I think he looks too much like Ari Fleischer from the Bush White House.
BEHAR: He does.
MILLER: Right away, I just don`t like him.
SEKOFF: Be careful what you say.
MILLER: Yes I just don`t like him.
MILLER: But no, but you`re right, this was a disastrous decision all around. I mean, 10:00 was a disaster for the local affiliates. It was a disaster in late night because as I said, now Letterman is beating Conan and like you say now everything -- it`s almost like trying to put something back together after an accident that didn`t really go together right and you`re like no, now it`s all...
BEHAR: It`s like Humpty Dumpty.
BEHAR: But David Letterman must be the happiest man in late night. Take a look at the clip from last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, "LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": This whole mistake over there at NBC has cost them hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. So now the last thing they want to do, they just want Conan to quit and go away and do a show in his basement. That`s what they want. That`s exactly what they want.
But he`s a smart kid. He`s not going to do that, he`s in there for the cash, or they waive his non-compete clause so he can go to Fox or come here and take my job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Letterman is having a lot of fun with all of this mishegash.
SEKOFF: Well, this is a perfect for him, right. I mean, what do they say, payback is a -- well, that`s what`s happening. Remember what happened, he was the one who was forced out when Leno got the seat that he wanted when Carson left, right.
BEHAR: Oh yes.
SEKOFF: So now he`s just sitting there going the sex scandal is behind him, he`s got double the ratings.
MILLER: Right and...
SEKOFF: He`s a pig in slop.
MILLER: And it looks like Fox may end up with one of them, right?
MILLER: ... Leno or Conan and somewhere Joan Rivers is going, nixed, ok, I`ve got to be up again.
SEKOFF: And Arsenio is going -- we`re flashing back all the bad jokes...
BEHAR: There`s something great to me about the fact that all these comics are trashing the network with great jokes and great material. It`s like so, I like it. It`s inspiring. About the first amendment, you know, just speak out...
BEHAR: Say what`s on your mind...
SEKOFF: You know what...
MILLER: On behalf of all of us...
SEKOFF: It`s great when you have the iron-clad $40 million contract, you can just let it fly.
BEHAR: Will anybody at NBC emerge unscathed? Who`s going to get screwed here? What`s your prediction?
MILLER: Now we`re in a game of chicken. What`s going to happen? Is Leno going to step down, is Conan going to -- what is NBC going to do? I mean...
BEHAR: What do you think?
SEKOFF: Here`s what I think is going to happen. I think Conan walks. He goes to Fox.
BEHAR: Conan walks, goes to Fox...
SEKOFF: Leno has his heartland crowd; they`re going to stick with him. They`re not going to be all into the inside baseball of this.
BEHAR: 11:30 to 12:00?
SEKOFF: 11:35 to 12:05 -- no, he`ll do a full hour. He`ll go back to the old "Tonight Show" -- it will be the old "Tonight Show", 11:35 to 12:35. And that will be it and he`ll be happy and Conan will start at 11:00 at Fox.
BEHAR: Stay right there, we`ll be right back with more. We`re going to talk about Sarah Palin and Fox in just a minute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: An obvious disconnect between President Obama and the White House, what they are doing to our economy and what they are doing in terms of not allowing Americans to feel as safe as we had felt and people finally saying, you know, this is not the representative form of government that we thought that we had voted in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Sarah Palin debuting on Fox News last night. Of course, her first order of business was to bash Obama and the White House.
My panel is back with me to talk a little Palin. You know she says there`s a disconnect between the White House and Obama. Doesn`t he live -- isn`t he -- isn`t that one thought? I don`t get that.
MILLER: I don`t understand the word salad. They have like translation in the Chiron because -- does it make your eye do this whenever she talks on TV? Does it just make you go like that because it doesn`t really...
SEKOFF: Do you remember like a couple weeks ago Jon Stewart did a bit where he talked about how the Fox host had to dumb themselves down for the audience. Sarah doesn`t have that problem.
MILLER: She`s perfect.
SEKOFF: She fits right in.
BEHAR: Oh boy.
SEKOFF: She doesn`t have to go through that, yes.
BEHAR: Do you think she`s going to be a hit?
SEKOFF: I do. If you remember, when she graduated from the six colleges that she attended, she became a sports caster or a news reader as they say. So this is perfect for her. As long as the teleprompter doesn`t break, she`s going to be great.
BEHAR: Don`t you think that talking about her the way we are right now or you are right this minute -- don`t you think that that just energizes her base even more against the left or does it not matter?
I hope they make her a foreign correspondent based on the stuff in that latest book. She probably could see West Korea from her house.
BEHAR: Yes. She thinks like that. I was reading in that book that she didn`t know there was a North and South Korea. I mean, this woman was this close to being the president. I mean, I can`t even ...
SEKOFF: Or even worse than that. She said that`s not true, I did know that. But the thing that she did say was...
BEHAR: She always says that afterwards.
SEKOFF: But she actually did not back off from the fact -- the claim that she didn`t know seven years after 9/11 that Iraq was not behind the attacks. This came out in the book.
BEHAR: A lot of people say that still.
SEKOFF: Seven years later, still?
BEHAR: I still hear them say it, and they`ll revise history over and over again to justify that invasion.
SEKOFF: Even George Bush admitted that was not the case. So those are the 12 percent. That`s the thing. When you say about her base being energized...
BEHAR: Did Cheney ever admit that?
SEKOFF: He kind of went, huh -- he didn`t use actual words. But I think even like a nudge with a twitch.
BEHAR: Ok. I want you both to take a look at this "In Touch" cover of Sarah and Bristol Palin with their kids. It says, "We`re glad we chose life." Any thoughts on that cover?
SEKOFF: well, from my understanding that they got paid six figures to do this story.
BEHAR: Well, that`s choosing life.
SEKOFF: So you`re choosing life.
MILLER: That`s choosing a really good life.
SEKOFF: But here`s the funny thing. Last week, I don`t know if you read this in the paper, Bristol Palin is launching her own PR company.
BEHAR: Is that so?
SEKOFF: As a 19-year-old...
BEHAR: Good for her.
SEKOFF: And I think she`s doing a good job. She`s on the cover of "In Touch", right? So maybe she will see a future for her.
BEHAR: That baby, they passed that baby around more than a joint at a Grateful Dead concert. Is she going to bring that baby on the set of Fox?
SEKOFF: Oh, her baby.
BEHAR: Yes. Any of the babies, their schlepping those babies around like crazy.
MILLER: My favorite moment of the campaign that really didn`t get a lot of publicity, Joy, was she was speaking at a rally in Florida, she is the whole family values candidate and whatever. And she was introduced, the whole family and she goes oh, and Trig, where`s Trig? Oh, well, anyway -- and then she just went on with her speech. Like she didn`t even know where the baby is.
BEHAR: I know. It`s just really going to be interesting to watch her on Fox. I love it for my show.
Stephanie, Roy thanks.
"The Biggest Loser`" Jillian Michaels joins me next.
BEHAR: We`re back continuing our week-long series, "JOY`S ANATOMY." Today we`re focusing on weight loss and diet, it is my favorite subject. There`s been a lot of talk about how obese Americans have become. But last time I checked talking doesn`t burn many calories. If it did, I would look like Kate Moss. Joining me now is someone who actually helps people get thin and get healthy, Jillian Michaels, uber trainer of "The Biggest Loser" and the author of "Mastering your Metabolism."
Plus, former "The Biggest Loser" contestants Matt and Susie Hoover from season two. And Bill Germanakos from season four. Welcome to everyone. Before we get started let`s take a look at last night`s show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): Come on! On your feet!
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): You`re going to be living in this gym today.
(UNIDENTIFED FEMALE): Go, go, go! Push!
(UNIDENTIFED FEMALE): Again, another one, go, go!
(UNIDENTIFED FEMALE): Are you going home?
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): No!
(UNIDENTIFED FEMALE): Are you going home?
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): No!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Jeez Jillian you`re tough. Where did you work before this, Guantanamo Bay?
JILLIAN MICHAELS, HEALTH & WELLNESS EXPERT: Only part-time. But "The Biggest Loser" pays better, so I`m at NBC these days.
BEHAR: Are you as hard on yourself as you are on these people?
MICHAELS: Heck no. Are you kidding? I can`t tolerate pain like that. It`s much easier to inflict pain than it is to tolerate it.
BEHAR: And you were overweight yourself at some point right?
MICHAELS: Yes, I was an overweight teenager, and I was very fortunate to have a martial arts instructor who helped me change my life via fitness, diet and exercise. That`s why I`m passionate about it as a means to build overall wellness in every factor of your life.
BEHAR: How much is the body exactly tied to the mind, do you think?
MICHAELS: Tremendously. Your mind is a very powerful tool. It can be a prison or it can set you free. Your belief system dramatically affects your health, your wellness, your immunity, your weight, everything.
BEHAR: You have to really want to lose weight, don`t you, Bill?
BILL GERMANAKOS, "BIGGEST LOSER" SEASON 4 WINNER:" You sure do.
BEHAR: You have to want it.
GERMANAKOS: You have to be motivated. It is not enough just to be inspired, you have to be motivated. And Jillian is quite a good motivator.
BEHAR: She certainly is, if you want a sadist running your show. She finds all these people that are desperate to lose weight, so that strict behavior I guess with the whips and chains next is really kind of effective, isn`t it?
GERMANAKOS: It is and don`t believe what she says. She works out hard. I never see her cheat. And she leads by example.
BEHAR: Because she was kidding. So Jillian, you were kidding, you actually do work as hard as your students?
MICHAELS: I don`t think anybody could work as hard as the contestants. They`re working out six hours a day. It is beyond my comprehension. But when I go to the gym I do, I work my butt off. I work out hard; I want to make every second count. I don`t believe in doing anything halfway.
BEHAR: So you like the harsh training?
GERMANAKOS: I can`t honestly say I liked it, but I know I needed it.
BEHAR: How about Matt and Susie, did they like the harsh training?
MATT HOOVER, "BIGGEST LOSER" SEASON 2 WINNER: Yes, Jillian was definitely the type of trainer that I needed at that time in my life.
SUSIE HOOVER, "BIGGEST LOSER" SEASON 2 WINNER:" I didn`t have Jillian, that wouldn`t of worked with me, I had Bob. He let me cry. She would have said, wipe up those tears.
BEHAR: So Bob is more of a pussycat than Jillian, is that what we`re hearing here?
S. HOOVER: Back in my days. Now I watch him on the screen and I`m like I`m afraid of Bob as much as I am of Jillian.
BEHAR: Oh. How much exactly did you lose?
GERMANAKOS: I lost 164 pounds for the show, I started out at 334 and I came in at the finale at 170 pounds.
BEHAR: Matt, what about you guys? What did you lose?
M. HOOVER: I started out at 339 and I came out at 182.
S. HOOVER: I was 227 and weighed in at 132.
BEHAR: And did you keep it off?
M. HOOVER: For the most part, I did. I`m sorry.
BEHAR: What about you, Bill?
GERMANAKOS: For the most part I did. Shortly after the finale I arrived at about this weight under the watchful eye of my doctor and we both agree that this is a weight that I can maintain and sustain and I`m very comfortable and I feel great, I`m very fit these days. I can do a whole lot in the gym. I`ve become a fitness instructor. In fact, now I speak on health and wellness professionally and I have an opportunity to pay it forward and it keeps me motivated.
BEHAR: You say that you have a twin who also lost a lot of weight.
GERMANAKOS: I did, my brother Jim in my season, season 4 was the at- home champ who lost 186 pounds and --
BEHAR: He kept it off?
GERMANAKOS: He has. He`s run his second New York City marathon. He loves to lift weights and extremely strong. But the two of us now, we get a chance to pay it forward together.
BEHAR: How about Matt and Susie, have you kept the weight off?
S. HOOVER: Well, Joy, since I was on the show, I`ve had two babies and I`m about -- I have about 15 pounds more that have been hanging on since the weight I want to live at. I weighed in at 132 and for me; I could not maintain that weight.
BEHAR: That`s really low, 132 is hard to stay with.
S. HOOVER: For me, for me. Some women, it`s fine. But I feel comfortable like at 155. So I`ve got a little bit left from my last child that I`m still working on taking off.
BEHAR: Uh-huh. Are you dieting now? Do you stay on the diet? What do you do to keep it off?
GERMANAKOS: We don`t consider it a diet, we just -- there are things we can eat and can`t eat. When people say you must not eat anything, I point out on an average morning I`ll have 10 to 12 egg whites.
BEHAR: How many?
GERMANAKOS: Twelve egg whites.
GERMANAKOS: Well listen to this, Joy 12 egg whites, ready for this Jillian, 12 egg whites as many calories as two eggs. I`m a hungry guy I would rather have the 12 egg whites.
BEHAR: Jillian, I have to ask you, a lot of people are saying the show is not a healthy way to lose weight because you`re really only supposed to lose two pounds a week that is my information.
MICHAELS: Who says you`re only supposed to lose two pounds a week? That is realistic, but I don`t believe that it`s necessarily a healthy way to lose weight. I think we totally debunked that. I have people losing 10, 15, 20 pounds a week and they`re perfectly healthy. They`re running marathons. No one is dead yet, in fact quite the opposite. They`re off all their medication and they become athletes. I think the proof is in the pudding. I don`t even understand that logic that is a myth.
BEHAR: Well haven`t some of the contestants had to go to the hospital? There was some stuff about that on the show.
MICHAELS: Last season, season 8 day one they did a challenge where they had them race for a mile. Bob and I were not involved in this. This was a production challenge, and the contestants got heat exhaustion. This was not from a workout or from weight loss. They just weren`t prepared to be outside in the heat and NBC is very mindful of this. We are doctors onset at all times. We have a medic onset at all times. The proof is in the pudding. They`re hundreds of pounds lighter. Matt just completed an iron man.
BEHAR: I guess if you`re really that heavy at 400 pounds, let`s say 350, whatever it is, and you can end up in the hospital any way. Either way, it`s a dangerous weight to be over 350 like that.
GERMANAKOS: But Joy this is the way I see it, if you`re 150 pounds and you endeavor to lose 30 and now you`re 120, everyone is thrilled for you. That`s a 20 percent weight loss. If you`re 500 pounds, a 20 percent weight loss is 100. But on last night show they said we`re going to try and reach 100 pound weight loss in a couple months and people were up in arms. It is the same thing, it is by percentage.
BEHAR: How did somebody get to be 500 pounds? I don`t understand that?
GERMANAKOS: One pound at a time.
BEHAR: I know that. I understand that, but 500 -- at 400, at 300, the average person would say I`m killing myself.
GERMANAKOS: If I may, I`m a guy that would stand in the middle of the kitchen and just look around for something to eat in the middle of the night. I would eat a whole box of cereal in the middle of the night.
BEHAR: What was going on in your mind? Was that an emotional response?
GERMANAKOS: That`s exactly what it was. A lot of people they try and loose weight on their own and they try and look for short cuts. I had an opportunity through "The Biggest Loser" to consult with professionals that people don`t see on TV, registered dietitians, not only the best trainer in the world, but a psychologist. I had an opportunity to speak with and say listen, you`ve got an emotional connection to food. You`re medicating with food it is making you feel good.
BEHAR: Did you do that, Susie, do you think? Is that something you can relate to?
S. HOOVER: Oh, yes. You know, I always say I came out of the womb chubby but I was only seven pounds when I was born. So that really doesn`t hold weight. But I grew up, that was my normal. I watched that in my everyday life. And there for that`s how I became to cope is with food. Even now I have to struggle to make the right choices because when an emotion hits, anger, your happy, sadness, that`s the first thing I go to because that was so engrained in me.
BEHAR: We all have our little addictions. Some people smoke, some people eat. It`s a question of keeping it under control. Susie, Matt, Bill thanks. We`ve got more with Jillian Michaels in a minute. Stick around.
BEHAR: People have been dieting since the beginning of time. The only reason Eve ate the apple is because she had gotten a little hippie. Some diets work, some don`t. I`ve tried a lot of them. I would like to get back to my original weight, 8 pounds, 3 ounces. I`m back with health and wellness expert Jillian Michaels, the star trainer from "The Biggest Loser." And joining us are Dave Kirchhoff, CEO and president of Weight Watchers International. Plus, Lisa Lillien, aka Hungry Girl founder of Hungrygirl.com.
Jillian lets start with you, I`ve tried Atkins, South Beach, Jenny Craig, I`ve even tried the Scarsdale diet, I didn`t loose any weight, but I wanted to shoot the doctor. What should I do now at this point?
MICHAELS: Well, you`ve tried all these fad diets but you`re not doing the thing that`s most important when it comes to weight loss and that`s creating an energy deficit. At the end of the day, if you`re counting your calories and you`re burning more calories than you`re consuming, you will have weight loss, period. End of story.
BEHAR: The old calories in and out, huh?
MICHAELS: Uh-huh. Absolutely.
BEHAR: Yes. So you represent Weight Watchers?
DAVE KIRCHHOFF, CEO, WEIGHT WATCHERS: I do.
BEHAR: Why do you think that one works?
KIRCHHOFF: Because among other things it considers calories in and out. We do it through points, but Weight Watchers basically works because it focuses on education, support and behavior change. So it`s all about sustainable small changes you can make in your life that can let you lose weight and have a good chance of keeping it off.
BEHAR: What do you think of that diet, Jillian?
MICHAELS: I actually really like Weight Watchers. I think we do share a lot of the same principles. Because points is just a way of making calorie counting more palatable for people, easier to do on the fly, in the midst of your crazy everyday life and they do support everything else that it takes for maintenance, behavioral changes. Support groups. So I`ve always been a Weight Watchers fan.
BEHAR: I like the idea of Weight Watchers like for instance one point can be an apple or it could be a whole English muffin if you get the right english muffin, that`s one point, right?
KIRCHHOFF: We`re big believers in bulking it up, which you take a little bit of food and you start adding fruits and vegetables and things like that it`s a lot of volume for not a lot of calories so it keeps you satisfied longer. It`s basically based on the principle of energy density.
MICHAELS: When Bill Germanakos was talking about having 12 egg whites versus one or two eggs, it`s the exact same principle. You can call it volume metrics. Its high quantities of nutrient dense low calorie foods, so people feel full, they are not hungry, and they don`t feel deprived. That`s something that`s actually worked for me very well in managing my own weight. It`s something that I pass onto my contestants.
BEHAR: Let me get Lisa in here. Lisa, my Hungry Girl out there, what is this 80/20 rule that you talk about?
LISA LILLIEN, HUNGRY GIRL.COM: Well I agree with everything these guys are saying, first of all, and I do live by the 80/20 rule, it means 80 percent of the time I`m eating exactly the foods I should be eating and 20 percent of the time I`m having a little fun. It`s not about depriving yourself fully because if you do that, you`ll go crazy eventually and then just consume everything in sight and that is a really bad idea. So 80/20 is a great rule to follow.
BEHAR: What do I do for cravings? I crave something, like at night I like to have a piece of chocolate let`s say?
KIRCHHOFF: You should do that.
BEHAR: I should?
BEHAR: How big?
KIRCHHOFF: No, you should -- that`s bad advice. I`m kidding.
BEHAR: Weight watchers has a sense of humor.
KIRCHHOFF: Surprising. No, you should -- if you`re a chocolate person and you say you`re never going to have another piece of chocolate again, I guarantee you`re not going to stick with it. So the trick is trying to plan it and doing it in a normal portion so that you can give yourself that indulgence and you feel like you`re living in the real world.
BEHAR: Do you agree with that, Jillian, if you have a chocolate craving at night, you should just eat it?
MICHAELS: I agree. What I like about the 80/20 rule, I do this myself. I take 20 percent of my calories every day and let myself have a craving food. But I would rather go organic dark chocolate than some garbage candy bar that`s loaded with trans fat. I still want you to make the quality of your cravings better.
BEHAR: I don`t think that the Hungry Girl agrees with that. Do you agree with that 100 percent?
LILLIEN: I do to some degree. But if you want -- every now and then if you really want an Oreo, and you have a 100 calorie pack of Oreo`s it`s not the end of the world. Because it`s not like you`re choosing between the organic this and the other things. Sometimes you need that happy median. So I don`t disagree but I think there are exceptions to that as well.
BEHAR: OK. What about like carbs? A lot of people say keep the carbs out of the diet. I know Weight Watchers would disagree with that, because yours is a balanced diet right?
KIRCHHOFF: I mean on some level we believe that the basics of what you should be eating is lean meats, whole fruits, low fat dairy. Don`t eat too much. If you look at all the nutritional science, that`s what it will direct you toward. And I think spending to much time worrying about fat or worrying about carbs or worrying about protein and trying to optimize on one can often lead to you making not such a good choice someplace else or it can lead you to maybe doing something that you can`t live with and sort of make it part of your life forever.
BEHAR: Right. Jillian let me ask you something. Now you have made weight loss supplements, I understand. Is that right?
MICHAELS: Yes. Absolutely.
BEHAR: I was reading in the "Daily News" that your stuff is just laxatives. Is that true?
MICHAELS: There`s nothing laxative in any of those boxes.
BEHAR: Oh no. OK.
MICHAELS: No. Not at all. In fact, supplements, it`s that conversation we would have about fat. Is fat good or is fat bad? Well trans fat will kill you and olive oil can save your life. Supplements are the same way. Some of them are not natural, they are terrible for the body, and some of them are all-natural botanicals that help with naturally boosting your metabolism, helping to fight immunity, I mean there`s a million different benefits that go into my supplements. They`re 100 percent natural and there are no laxatives in them and it even says no laxatives and no fats on the box.
BEHAR: All right. Let me talk to the Hungry Girl again. We`re talking about portion control constantly now. A lot of people are just too hungry for portion control. Some of the people that were on the previous segments, they weigh 350 pounds and they want to get down and they`re starving. I don`t know if they can do portion control. What do you suggest with people who have a huge appetite?
LILLIEN: I think it`s about finding the foods that give you the most bang for your calorie buck. I mean that is what Hungry Girl is all about. I like to find foods that I can eat more of because volume is important. I do the many egg white thing as well, I think it`s about finding the foods you can live with for ever that feels satisfying to you, it is not about finding a quick fix or magical if it allows to lose weight very quickly and then you don`t know how to live and maintain it for the long haul.
BEHAR: So do you recommend eating an entire chicken, for example?
LILLIEN: You know, I don`t --
BEHAR: An entire chicken, I`m talking about, head, feet, everything.
LILLIEN: No toes. No chicken toes.
BEHAR: No toes, OK.
LILLIEN: The truth is, I am a protein maniac. I love protein, I eat a lot of protein, I wouldn`t eat an entire chicken but I eat a lot of chicken.
BEHAR: Half a chicken. Just the toes and the breasts. You`re a breast man, hey. Lisa, Dave thanks. Jillian, don`t go anywhere I`m done with you yet. I`ll be back with you in a minute.
BEHAR: I`m back with Jillian Michaels the star trainer of the "Biggest Loser." Jillian you are getting another show out here called "Loosing it with Jillian." How will it be different from the "Biggest Loser.?"
MICHAELS: Well the "Biggest Loser" ultimately is a game show. And loosing it is I move in with a family for seven days. It`s not necessarily teaching people how to be thin it is teaching people how to live a healthy life. I move in with them, give them the tools to communicate with their kids better, be role models for their family, fall back in love again, obviously get their health back in line, get off their medications, and we leave for hopefully three months. I`m having this conversation right now with the network, come back, check on the family, and see where they are at. You know, are the kids doing better in school, are the parents going on dates again? Have they lost 50 pounds, is their cholesterol significantly lower?
BEHAR: So you`re moving in with these people? You`re moving into their houses with them in?
MICHAELS: I`m moving in with them, yes, with families across the country, for better or worse. It`s a show in itself.
BEHAR: You also wrote a book called "Mastering your Metabolism" which I assume has a lot to do with exercise. Working out for me is not good, I don`t like it. What should I do?
MICHAELS: This is actually a diet book. It has nothing do with exercise. I`m always an exercise advocate. At the end of the day if you are eating right, you know, exercise is part of a healthy lifestyle, its preventive medicine but I actually believe diet plays a bigger role, not only in weight control but in overall wellness, anti-aging, immunity, it`s a diet book.
BEHAR: How much exercise does one really have to do, then in that case, to just maintain a healthy life and a healthy weight? Give me a number.
MICHAELS: In reality, I haven`t been to the gym in about a month. I`m working 15 hour days right now. I`m being honest with you. I lead a very active lifestyle. I`m on my feet all day long, training contestants or traveling from one place to another, I`m probably burning about 1800 a day and I`m probably eating 1800 a day of high quality foods and I manage my weight just fine.
In fact, I`m lower body fat than ever. I`m thinner than I usually am. I`m like 114. I`m usually 120. So, of course, exercise is very, very important but if you don`t have the time to get to the gym, with a healthy diet, you can manage your weight and your overall wellness. So that`s something that is incredibly critical that you lock down.
BEHAR: Thanks very much, Jillian, for being on the show.
MICHAELS: Thank you.
BEHAR: OK. Before we go I want to say that my thoughts are with the people of Haiti tonight. If you want to help, here is just a few of the things that you can do. Unicef has a website where you can make a direct donation to their relief efforts. Their address is WWW. Unicefusa.org/haitiquake or call 1-800-4unicef. Also, the Red Cross, this is very good. The Red Cross is taking donations by a text message, text the word Haiti to the number 90999 to donate $10 to Red Cross Haiti relief efforts. It will show on your next phone bill, it is as easy as that. Do it for them. Good night, everybody.