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Joy Behar Page
The Haiti Crisis; Suze Orman Talks Dollars and Sense
Aired January 18, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: On tonight`s JOY BEHAR SHOW, President Obama enlists Bill Clinton and George Bush to help in the Haitian relief effort. It`s great to see that the boys in the Oval Office Club can play nice when it comes to a worthy cause.
And financial guru Suze Orman admits she carries no money at all but she`ll tell us how to keep more cash in our pockets.
Then, NBC`s late-night soap opera continues. Are Conan and the network close to signing the divorce papers? Will jay and his "Tonight Show" audience kiss and makeup? Like sands in our underpants, these are the days that annoy.
All that starts right now.
If your weekend was anything like mine, you spent it glued to the devastating news from Haiti and the impossible to forget images of destruction, chaos and grief. But we`re just watching the horror. There are others on the ground trying to do anything they can to help.
One of those people is CNN`s own chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta who joins me now. Dr. Gupta, you were left to care for a hospital full of patients alone this weekend. What happened?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we were there at this particular field hospital, covering the story of these hospitals setting up. Throughout the day, Joy, we got some murmurs the doctors were going to be leaving at night because of security concerns.
Frankly, you know, I just didn`t think that was going to happen. I just didn`t believe that could happen throughout the day. And then I don`t know what time it was, 9:00, 10:00 I think at night, these U.N. trucks came in and these doctors left. And there were 25 patients, Joy, in this field hospital, many of them who had just had operations; many of them who were pretty sick. You know, had been pulled out of the rubble after several days and were just very, very sick and needed, you know, care.
And it was just sort of a shocking thing to see. I looked at my crew and I said, "I`m going to stay. I mean, these patients aren`t going to -- they`re not going to survive or get any kind of care." I said, you know, you decide what you want to do. The whole crew, we all stayed and took care of these patients throughout the night.
BEHAR: Well, when they left, did they take all their supplies with them?
GUPTA: They took some supplies. And I don`t know why -- still, why that was. They left some. They took some. I thought maybe they weren`t going to come back ever or what that was all about. But them taking some supplies made the job even a little bit more challenging.
BEHAR: It`s kind of unbelievable they would leave in my opinion. I guess they were under orders to leave. But did they want to go?
GUPTA: That`s a good question. I want to be really fair here because I was reporting on some of these doctors all day long. You know, Joy, there was anywhere between 50 and 100 people so it`s hard to know what was in every individual`s mind. But some of the doctors that I was talking to, I really don`t think they wanted to go.
And, you know, one of the doctors -- I won`t forget when he did come back the next day and, you know, he and I just went into doctor mode. I started saying, here`s what happened to these patients overnight. This patient needs some more bicarbs. This patient came in with this. He looked at me at one point and literally put his hand on my shoulder and he said, "You know what? Today I`m embarrassed to be a Belgian."
BEHAR: Wow.
GUPTA: And I could just see the anguish in his eyes and his voice. He didn`t want to leave, Joy. He wanted to sit there and take care of his patients like a lot of doctors do. But you`re right I think maybe he was forced to leave or -- I don`t know.
BEHAR: I`m sure you`ll have more to say on this when you come back. Thanks for sharing some of your stories with us. We really look forward to seeing you. You`re a hero to me, Dr. Gupta, thank you.
GUPTA: Thanks Joy.
BEHAR: Former President Bill Clinton is in Haiti today, just two days after Obama enlisted Bill Clinton and strange political bedfellow George W. Bush to raise funds for the ravaged island nation.
But all the carnage isn`t limited to Haiti. Bush spent the weekend repairing the political damage created by Rush Limbaugh. Here he is on NBC`s "Meet the Press."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID GREGORY, NBC ANCHOR: In some circles, the president`s been criticized for politicizing this disaster. Do you think that`s fair?
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don`t know what they`re talking about. I`ve been briefed by the president about the response. As I said in my opening comment, I appreciate the president`s quick response to this disaster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me now is Congressman Alan Grayson, a Democrat from Florida, and Julie Menin, host of "Give and Take" and contributing blogger to the Huffington Post.
Why is Bush so amicable? Let`s start with you, Julie.
JULIE MENIN, HOST, "GIVE AND TAKE": Well, it`s really incredible. We certainly see this out of George W. Bush when he was president. And I hate to use the term "shining moment" and George W. Bush. I never thought I`d use it in the same sentence Joy.
BEHAR: Yes.
MENIN: But that`s what we`re seeing. And I think he realizes that he needs to rebuild the legacy that he created after Katrina. He did a terrible job with the Katrina relief. He`s really trying to combat that.
I also think he realizes there`s certain moments in history, this being one of them, the terrible disaster in Haiti, that transcend partisan politicians. So I think he`s doing the smart thing and he`s also trying to rebuild his reputation.
BEHAR: Yes. He really did suffer from the Katrina disaster because he was -- really looked bad in those days.
Representative, do you think that -- why is Bush so quiet and Cheney still so loud?
REP. ALAN GRAYSON (D), FLORIDA: Well, listen, I think that he was just as appalled by what Rush Limbaugh said as almost any other decent human being was. I mean Rush Limbaugh, if you want to say one good thing about him, at least he`s consistent. Maybe he thinks that all those people who are trapped under the rubble in Haiti are going to be freed by the invisible hand of the free market.
BEHAR: Do you believe Bush or do you think he`s just being quiet, he really does secretly agree with Cheney. Or is he playing games here or what?
MENIN: I definitely...
GRAYSON: I think he`s appalled by Cheney as well, you know. I think if it comes to it, he`ll speak out again on Cheney ultimately as well...
BEHAR: You do?
GRAYSON: ... because I think every reasonable person has to feel that way. Cheney at this point reflects the evolution of the Republican Party for the past 100 years. Teddy Roosevelt said, "Walk softly but carry a big stick."
What you`re seeing from Cheney now is that he talks loudly and acts like a big you know what.
MENIN: Those are fighting words; I like those words.
But I think that`s exactly right. And I think that Bush realizes he has to fight back against this Limbaugh rhetoric. I mean after all, Limbaugh was the one who said we should be in Iraq. He had no problem nation building in Iraq. He had no problem nation building in Afghanistan. That`s obviously intellectually inconsistent with saying we should not be in Haiti and shouldn`t give relief.
BEHAR: Well, this is humanitarian. This is not to start a war.
MENIN: Right.
Limbaugh is not taking cues from Bush still going after the White House. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Will somebody ask Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel who is Rahm`s brother and one of the lead White House people on health care whether they`re planning cost benefit considerations for each Haiti victim. Will they consider age? Potential contribution to society? All the other factors that we`re assured are not death panel guidelines in our own health care system.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BEHAR: And he says that Obama`s politicizing Haiti.
MENIN: Well, that`s exactly it. It`s Limbaugh who`s politicizing this. And we could not -- I have to stress -- see this in the days after September 11th. After September 11th, the nation pulled together after a terrible tragedy and you didn`t see partisan attacks.
I think it`s a very bad harbinger of where we are politically that right away after this disaster in Haiti you see Republicans like Limbaugh jumping on this bandwagon.
BEHAR: Exactly.
Let me turn the conversation to health care. Obama went to Massachusetts to fight for Martha Coakley`s seat. They say that this election in Massachusetts could make or break health care. Representative Grayson, what do you say to that? Is that true?
GRAYSON: I don`t see it that way. I think everybody in this country, every adult, recognizes that you don`t solve problems by ignoring them. We have a big problem in this country in health care; we`re not going to solve it by ignoring it.
The Republicans can say no all they want. But anybody who`s given any thought to this recognizes that we have to move ahead with reform one way or the other. And despite their best efforts to stop it, I`m pretty confident that we`ll see health care reform in America.
BEHAR: But is it possible a Republican could take Massachusetts after Ted Kennedy`s time?
GRAYSON: Listen, it`s not the first time that we would see a Republican in state-wide office in Massachusetts. You may recall that one of them ran for president in 2008.
BEHAR: Right.
MENIN: That`s exactly right. I mean listen, this race is obviously too close to call. But what I think we need to remember is only two times in the last 100 years has a party in power been able to hold on to both seats in the House and the Senate. So this is not unusual to see that the party in power is facing these kinds of attacks.
BEHAR: Right, that happens.
GRAYSON: You have to also remember the Republicans are pouring every last penny into this race just as they did with New York 23 where they tried to Scozzafava all of us. And I think the result will be the same.
BEHAR: I like how you used that as a verb now.
MENIN: It`s the new verb now.
BEHAR: It`s a verb.
I hate to get Scozzafava especially in the humidity.
Is it possible that Coakley just ran a bad campaign?
MENIN: I don`t think she`s the best candidate.
BEHAR: Or is there an anti-Democratic momentum going on?
MENIN: I have to say it`s a little bit of both. I don`t think she`s the best candidate. I think Vicki Kennedy would have been better and might have connected better with voters.
BEHAR: Why didn`t she run?
MENIN: I think it was a personal issue. She had been through a lot and decided she didn`t want to put herself out there.
Listen, she endorsed Coakley; she`s been an active part of the campaign. So is Coakley the best candidate? Now, probably not. But still she`s right on the opinions.
We have to remember brown is on the side of the health care insurance industry, on the side of the Wall Street firms. He`s hardly a populist.
BEHAR: Representative, do you think that one of the Kennedy children should have run instead?
GRAYSON: I don`t know. I do know that the Republicans are trying to buy the race. I think people that will pick up on that between now and tomorrow.
BEHAR: Isn`t that common though, buying the race? I mean people throw money into it like crazy. The system is built that way which is not great.
GRAYSON: Well, in this case, it`s all outside money. Probably a lot of it is insurance company money. They want to make sure that they can do everything they can to stop health care reform in America and derailing the Massachusetts race is one way to do that.
BEHAR: Thank you very much, both of you, Congressman, Julie. Up next, Suze Orman tells me who holds the key to sparking our economy.
Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUZE ORMAN, AUTHOR, "WOMEN AND MONEY": You don`t need, number one, a third banjo. Number two, you don`t need to spend $15,000 on a banjo. You do not have enough in retirement to generate the income that you may need later on in life if you get ill, if you need an aide, you need nurses, you need things like that. Those things happen. You do not need a banjo. And you cannot afford it. Denied again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Denied. I love that. She tells it like it is. And she dispenses tough love, financial advice that people don`t always want to hear. But if anyone can make them listen, it`s Suze Orman, host of "The Suze Orman Show" on CNBC and author of "Women and Money: Owning the Power to Control your Destiny," which is now out in paperback. And she`s here now with me. Suze Orman.
ORMAN: Joy.
BEHAR: Ok. You know, Suze, you were not always the big muckety-muck that you are now with money.
ORMAN: That is true, yes.
BEHAR: I know a little story. Tell me your little story.
ORMAN: Well, you know, the story is, back in 1973 to 1980, I`m now almost 30 years of age in 1980, if you`re doing the math...
BEHAR: And I can`t but...
ORMAN: ... I guess everybody`s doing the math, ok, fine, we`re getting there.
But I was a waitress making $400 a month. And I made $400 a month essentially for seven years. So make a fast story -- long story very, you know, short. I wanted to open up my own restaurant. The people I was waiting on gave me $50,000 to open up my own restaurant.
BEHAR: Why?
ORMAN: Because this guy, Fred Hasbrook (ph), who I had been waiting on for seven years, he came in one day and he said I looked sad. And I told him that I wanted to open up my own restaurant and I asked my mom for $20,000 but she didn`t have that kind of money. And so I was always going to be just a waitress. And he told all...
BEHAR: This is like one of those...
ORMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: ... old Margaret O`Brien stories.
ORMAN: But it`s a true story.
BEHAR: And then I said to Mr. Potter...
ORMAN: Please, Mr. Potter. And he went and told all the guys that I had been waiting on all those years...
BEHAR: Yes. They loved you.
ORMAN: That I was sad and they`d liked me and they all wrote checks totaling $50,000.
BEHAR: Wow.
ORMAN: And then told me...
BEHAR: That`s some story.
ORMAN: ...to deposit it at Merrill Lynch. And I did. Had a crooked broker, lost all $50,000. And then I didn`t know what to do so I thought, I know, I can be a broker, they just make you broker.
So I went and I applied for a job at Merrill Lynch and they hired me in my opinion to fill their women`s quota and the rest is history.
BEHAR: Wow.
ORMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: So you never had to give that money back to these generous men.
ORMAN: It`s not that I didn`t have to, but while I was working at Merrill Lynch, I ended up suing them because...
BEHAR: Suing Merrill Lynch?
ORMAN: Yes, because they lost the money. The broker lost the money when he shouldn`t have been gambling with the money, buying options, which is essentially gambling...
BEHAR: Ok.
ORMAN: ...and they gave me all the money back so I was able to pay everybody back, plus 18 percent interest and there you go.
BEHAR: Well, you know, I have a similar story. Only that I was close to 40 and I was divorced, single mother. And I got fired from my job at "Good Morning America". And I had nothing, I had no savings, so I was really broke.
And I woke up and I said, boy, oh, boy, I better do something now. Because, I`ll be a bag lady; the bag lady scenario that women have in their heads. And I just did it.
I mean what do you say to women like me? Who, I mean, I can tell you how I did at another time. But what do you tell women what to do at that point?
ORMAN: Here`s what I say.
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: That sometimes a no leaves you that much closer to a yes. In essence, I became who I am because of a tragedy, so-called tragedy, all that money was lost.
BEHAR: It`s a difficulty...
BEHAR: ...and then I didn`t know what to do.
So I was forced to do something outside of my comfort zone because how was I going to pay back $50,000? You were at 40 you were forced to do something outside of your comfort zone. And here you are today.
So maybe if we can just look at this recession a little bit, that`s forcing many people to do things that they never expected. Maybe years from now they can also look back and go thank God. Probably not, but just maybe.
BEHAR: So do you think that that`s the key to women getting out of the rut that they`re in, in this country? Even men? To try to get out of your comfort zone and take a chance?
ORMAN: Yes, you have got to push your comfort zone.
BEHAR: Isn`t it hard to do when you have three kids to support, mouths to feed and...
ORMAN: Well, I got news for you. Women are more capable of doing it than men.
BEHAR: Why?
ORMAN: I don`t know why. All I know is that during this past year, two years where it`s been very difficult, Joy with money, women are doing anything and everything possible to make sure that the family is going. They are waitresses, bartenders, working...
BEHAR: Anything they have to do?
ORMAN: Anything, Avon reps, you name it, they are doing it. Men, when they lose their white collar job, they`re making $80,000 a year; they will not go and just do anything. They will wait and wait and wait until they can find another job paying them $80,000 a year, which they never do, at least during this unemployment of 10 percent. And it all falls on the women...
BEHAR: Well, you think it`s ego-driven?
ORMAN: I think it`s partly it is ego driven. I have to tell you, I`m not putting men down here, this isn`t about it, it`s just their...
BEHAR: Oh no, it`s the way there is...
ORMAN: ...it`s just nature.
BEHAR: It`s not their fault to...
ORMAN: No, women, nature is to nurture. It is, we have the ability to give...
BEHAR: A lot -- a lot of times women don`t -- who are married don`t even know what kind of money is coming in. They don`t know what they`re husbands are doing with the money. I was thinking of Ruth Madoff, for instance.
ORMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, that`s an extreme obviously an extreme example. But do you think she even now what Bernie was doing?
ORMAN: Somehow I think she knew what Bernie was doing.
BEHAR: You do?
ORMAN: I -- sorry to say, I don`t think she was the innocent wife. I don`t think they were the innocent sons. And he obviously was not the innocent man.
BEHAR: Well, that`s true.
ORMAN: This is a whole another story. However, it is shocking to me -- yesterday, I was doing a show, executive producer, anchor. Now, you would think that these people -- they all say Suze, I love you, listen to you all the time. They have kids. Do they have a will? Do they have a trust? No.
One of them says, I just give the money to my husband. I don`t even think about it. You know very well when I used to go on "The View" and Elisabeth would say, "I don`t deal with the money, my husband does." And it would drive me out of my mind.
BEHAR: I think she`s changed that tune.
ORMAN: Yes, maybe she has.
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: But, you know, women today are still not getting involved as much as they should. They will take care of the household expenses because the household is everything that they love...
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: ...their children. But they will not do the investments. They will not do -- do more...
BEHAR: And it`s like the old days of "I Love Lucy" where she would have to hide the money and all of that.
You know, let`s just -- before we go, I want to talk about gay marriage, because you and your partner K.T. (ph) have been together a long time.
ORMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: How long are you together?
ORMAN: We`re going on ten years. I think...
BEHAR: Ten years.
ORMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: And -- you can`t get married, right.
ORMAN: No, we can`t get married.
BEHAR: What state do you live in?
ORMAN: We -- well, we`re residents of Florida. Oh that was a big choice, Florida...
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
ORMAN: ...Florida couldn`t be more conservative if it tried. But we were residents of California a number of years ago and look at what they did and look at what`s going on there now.
So here`s the problem, Joy. Even if the states pass gay marriage on a federal level, it is still not legal. So I`m a very wealthy woman and I`m glad I am. And if I die and I leave my millions to K.T. (ph) she`s going to pay a state tax on about 50 percent of it.
If she dies and leaves her millions to me, she was a very, very successful woman in her own right I`m going to lose 50 percent of that to a state tax. Something is radically wrong with that. So even on the state level if it passes, until it passes on a federal level, where it is fine across the board, it`s not going to help us.
Do you think the gay community should try to go more towards the financial part of it rather than the morality part in order to change it? Would that speed it up?
ORMAN: I don`t know what would speed it up. But of course I`m going to think the angle needs to be financial. You can`t qualify for social security -- your partner`s social security. Good luck.
BEHAR: All of that.
ORMAN: There`s 1,100 financial differences between a married couple and a gay couple.
BEHAR: And it`s really not fair.
ORMAN: Thank you.
BEHAR: It`s a disgrace.
ORMAN: It`s a travesty. It`s a disgrace.
BEHAR: All right. Don`t go anywhere. We`ll have more with the fabulous Suze Orman when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ORMAN: Suze, how do you keep your highlighted wedge haircut looking so full of volume and soft? Well, my dear friends this lady is about to spill the beauty beans. Twice a month, I borrow my friend`s speed boat and go 180 miles an hour all the way around Mexico to California. Then I rent a compact car and drive directly to Pam and Jan`s female specific barber shop and color house in Phoenix, Arizona.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Suze Orman, the real one, not Kristin Wiig, is back with me. How do you like that? Welcome to the club.
ORMAN: I love that a lot. That`s exactly what I do. I go to Phoenix, Arizona. Did she say female specific barber shop? I think that`s what she said. I love Kristin Wiig. Listen, the biggest honor one can have is to be mimicked on "Saturday Night Live". Are you kidding? Fabulous.
BEHAR: That`s true. It is the best thing. Now, I have a bunch of Twitter and Facebook questions from your listeners.
Oh this one`s funny. "Ask her why she has to be so angry when she`s giving financial advice."
ORMAN: That`s a good question. What are you talking about? I am not angry. Sometimes the questions, right, just provoke anger. What do you want from me? It`s like you`re sitting there and you cannot believe that somebody has voluntarily committed financial suicide. Or somebody has done something that has hurt them so much it`s not even funny.
Now, you people may think everything changes because you`re nice, you`re compassionate. No, sometimes things change when you give somebody a slap. And it knocks some financial sense into them.
What you don`t see is we sometimes follow up with these people. They`re all, you know, taken care of afterwards. You know, it`s just who I am. It`s not for show. It is the real thing.
BEHAR: You know, it`s not really anger. It`s not personal. It`s emphatic behavior more than anger.
ORMAN: It`s a definite opinion.
BEHAR: They want to know, what do you invest in?
ORMAN: I told everybody a long time ago that 90 percent of my money was in municipal bonds. I started to put my money in municipal bonds in the middle, about 2004, 2005.
Here`s what I love so much. Now a male financial writers started to write and do these blogs and these things about, oh what does she know about money? She`s in municipal bonds. Look at her, why isn`t she in the stock market?
Thank you very much. I have now made a fortune in municipal bonds because when the stock market tanked, I am still getting 5 percent, 5.5 percent, 6 percent on some of them tax free.
The stock market tanks. Municipal bonds skyrocket.
BEHAR: It was sort of a safe thing. Aren`t you afraid you`re going to get mugged the way you talk?
ORMAN: No because they`re municipal bonds.
BEHAR: You always say I made a fortune.
ORMAN: I did.
BEHAR: Ok, let`s mug her.
ORMAN: Here`s the thing though. Ask me if I have any money on me or credit cards. Not a penny.
BEHAR: You don`t carry credit cards?
ORMAN: No, I don`t even have a purse.
BEHAR: Does K.T. carry them around?
ORMAN: Sometimes, not all the time.
BEHAR: What happens if we have a blackout or something? I happen to be Italian, I carry a few...
ORMAN: Here`s what happens. I go in, I go, see this face, it`s good for it. Give me what I need. And they do. It`s so funny.
BEHAR: Ok. Just this one thing before we go, because apparently you said on Oprah that it`s okay to tip the server 10 percent as a way to save money.
ORMAN: I never said that.
BEHAR: No?
ORMAN: Never. Are you kidding?
BEHAR: It`s not even true.
ORMAN: It`s not even true. Oprah never said that. That`s some rumor. Here`s what -- and every single waiter can tell you who has ever waited on me minimum tip is 30 percent. Usually it`s a 50 percent tip if not more that I leave.
BEHAR: Ah, she knows from when she speaks. Thanks very much.
ORMAN: Tip as much as you can.
BEHAR: Thank you, Suze, so much.
ORMAN: Thank you Joy.
BEHAR: We`ll be back in a minute. We`ve run out of time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONAN O`BRIEN, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH CONAN O`BRIEN": It`s getting a little nasty in the press. In the press this week, NBC has been calling me every name in the book. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. In fact, they think I`m such an idiot they now want me to run the network.
(LAUGHTER)
O`BRIEN: I couldn`t believe it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: NBC is finalizing a deal that will let Conan leave, return Jay to "The Tonight Show." and bring drama back to prime time. Please, who needs prime time drama? Who wants to watch fictional murder when you can see these guys stab each other in the back every night? And I`m watching them all. Jay, Conan, Kimmel, and Letterman and I`ve only got one TV. That`s how great it is!
Conan and Jay will go their separate ways but let`s face it, they`ll never be this entertaining on their own. At this point, each needs the other to be really funny, you know, like Laurel and Hardy or Levi and Sarah. Here to talk to me about the latest in late-night war, Alan Thicke, former late-night talk show host. Stephen Battaglio, business editor for "TV Guide Magazine." and comedian Nick DiPaulo. Welcome to the show. Steven, let me start with you. I understand this week could be Conan`s last show, this Friday.
STEPHEN BATTAGLIO, TV GUIDE MAGAZINE: As of right now, January 22nd, this Friday will be his final show on the Tonight Show. They are working out basically the terms of how much money he`ll leave with and when he can go back on the air for another network, presumably FOX.
BEHAR: Well, maybe. But how much is the payout?
BATTAGLIO: The payout is $30 million to $40 million. Which is really probably what he would have made if he stayed at "The Tonight Show" and stayed at NBC. He`s also working on compensation packages for his staff, for his executive producer.
BEHAR: Right.
BATTAGLIO: A lot of people who uprooted themselves out of New York and came to the west coast.
BEHAR: That`s right if he doesn`t go along with their contract, how come he`s getting the money?
BATTAGLIO: Clearly, they thought that -- or someone determined, NBC lawyers must have determined that he had a case. That the show was meant to be an 11:30 show. When they committed to giving Conan "The Tonight Show" back in 2004. They did not fight him hard on this it doesn`t seem.
BEHAR: I know, there`s the PR out there too. Because Conan`s popular now, all of a sudden everybody loves Conan.
BATTAGLIO: Well, it`s not just that. But also, you know, NBC is about to be merged with the Comcast. And so which means there`s going to be a lot of government regulation, a lot of scrutiny. You don`t want an ugly public battle in court going on when you`re trying to win over the sentiment of Washington.
BEHAR: You know, Nick, let me ask you a question. If you were a comedy writer on the show, how would you like to be screwed around like this, with? You know what I mean? They schlepped them out there, they moved the whole family. And now what are they supposed to do, these guys?
NICK DIPAOLO, COMEDIAN: That`s how it works in show business, you know that.
BEHAR: Yeah, but this is a big uprooting.
DIPAULO: This is how -- this is what happens in show biz. You want something stable, go into banking.
BEHAR: You`re very tolerant of this, okay.
DIPAULO: That didn`t make much sense, the way Obama`s running things. Why is Jay being painted as the bad guy?
BEHAR: I don`t know, I agree with that. Let me ask Alan. If Conan`s gone Friday, Alan, what will fill the 11:30 spot, do you think?
ALAN THICKE, FMR LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: I have no speculation on that. However, I do think that Conan should go immediately to FOX if that`s the case Friday. Because apparently he`s just cranky enough now that he could be Simon`s replacement on "Idol" at which time he would be seen by more people on one show than in a lifetime of late-night television.
BEHAR: You know I understand Conan is going to be able to keep his characters like the masturbating bear. There`s a mature idea.
BATTAGLIO: Well actually never appeared on "The Tonight Show." that was a -- the masturbating bear was not ready for 11:30 apparently.
BEHAR: I see.
BATTAGLIO: And so he never appeared on the -
BEHAR: What about triumph the insult dog, was he ready?
BATTAGLIO: Oh well he was. He did appear on "The Tonight Show." and I would guess he would take those characters to FOX where they will be right at home.
DIPAULO: They have a custody fight over the masturbating bear?
BEHAR: Yes, why not. Why not?
THICKE: Yes because they`re considered intellectual property?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Yes, right. That`s funny.
THICKE: That`s funny. The self-diddling rabbit, yeah.
BEHAR: So you think though, you know, Jay Leno`s now going to go to 11:35 again. Is he going to get his mojo back? Or has he really lost the luster?
BATTAGLIO: The audience connects with these people through what they see on the screen. If Jay goes back on there and he`s funny and he does a show his audience likes, they`ll be back. I think that this will be forgotten after a while. And I don`t think that it`s going to be that much of an adjustment. I think it`s all about what they see on the screen. Is the audience laughing?
BEHAR: Right, okay, let`s look back at 2004 when Leno announced he would be handing the reins over to Conan. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, HOST: You know this show`s like a dynasty. You hold it, and then you hand it off to the next person. I don`t want to see all the fighting and all the who`s better and all the nasty things back and forth in the press. So right now, here it is, Conan, it`s yours. See you in five year, buddy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: What a difference seven months make, huh?
DIPAULO: Yes, but like he had to say that. What`s he gonna say? NBC came to him and gave him a choice. Said in five year we want to -- and if he said no for that, they would have tortured him for the next -- no?
BATTAGLIO: The problem is trying to do a five-year plan in show biz. This is not like -- NBC is owned by General Electric and they like that type of stuff, they like orderly transitions and knowing what the project the earnings are going to be. But when you are talking about show business, this means you`re talking about emotions. You`re talking about tradition, you are talking about people. This is the most sentimental business there is. People worry about legacies and such. And you don`t know how the public is going to feel. And how the people involved are going to feel five years down the road.
BEHAR: Exactly. And they jumped the gun --
BATTAGLIO: It`s run by businessmen, that`s the problem.
BEHAR: That`s the problem.
BATTAGLIO: And it always has been, you know?
DIPAULO: And the strategy -
THICKE: And you know what - you know what --
BEHAR: What Alan? Yes, go ahead Al.
THICKE: You know, I think we`re all genius pundits now in the rearview mirror. I don`t know, if we didn`t hear this public outcry from the media five years ago. The plan sounded at least viable to everyone. And you`d have to be Nostradamus to have predicted that five years down the road we`d have so few dramas on TV and so many kardashians for instance. And then --
BEHAR: No, he has a point, that`s true.
THICKE: Certainly, that Jay would have held his audience as he has for five years.
DIPAULO: I remember saying what the heck when they announced this. I was surprised because Jay was doing the numbers.
BEHAR: That`s the point.
DIPAULO: Which is the bottom line in this business. I remember a lot of comics saying what are they kidding?
BEHAR: That`s the youthful orientation though, they felt that Conan was younger, Jay would be finished in the `60`s.
BATTAGLIO: Well it was a defensive strategy as well. I mean if, in 2004, Conan could have gone to FOX then. And he would have had another competitor and that would have hurt Jay Leno in the ratings.
BEHAR: Right.
BATTAGLIO: Maybe "The Tonight Show" would have probably not been number one.
BEHAR: But you know is he going to make the same kind of money at FOX, do you think? I mean he made a lot of money at NBC, is he going to make that kind of money if he goes to FOX, Conan?
BATTAGLIO: I think so. I think, you know this is a pretty easy launch for FOX. If they do it. I mean, Conan has a very loyal staff. They could pick that show up and he can put it right on to the network. They`d be ready, off and running. And, you know, he`s a proven -- he`s proven he can go on night after night and do the show and draw an audience.
BEHAR: What do you think, Alan?
THICKE: I think one thing that hasn`t been addressed thoroughly yet has been the fact that Jay being on at 10:00 is what has largely hurt Conan at 11:30. Conan hasn`t really gotten a fair shot even at 11:30. By 11:30, we`ve already heard the network`s minimum daily requirement of jokes about Sarah Palin`s book or Dick Cheney`s weapon or Tiger Woods` weapon. I never get tired of those myself. But there are only so many ways you can approach all that material. Jay`s now done it from 10:00 to 11:00. That wasn`t part of the scenario five years ago.
DIPAULO: You can`t blame Jay for not doing well at 10:00. It wasn`t his decision.
BEHAR: That`s right.
THICKE: I`m saying that Conan has suffered at 11:30 because Jay`s already done an hour-long talk show.
BEHAR: Yeah, yeah. Go ahead.
DIPAULO: No, but I`m saying that was Zucker`s decision to put Jay at 10:00 so you can`t blame Jay for not bringing the numbers at 10 to be a good lead-in for Conan.
BEHAR: No, so we can`t blame Conan, we can`t blame Leno. Who can we blame?
(CROSSTALK)
DIPAULO: Blame Jeff Zucker.
BEHAR: Jeff Zucker, okay, how`s he going to do, do you think --
THICKE: Yes by the way, now and even Jeff Zucker, though you know, I personally, I think -- I have to still work at NBC once in a while to pay my S.A.G. health plan until the public option kicks in so as far as I`m concerned all network execs are geniuses across the board. But this was clearly a big chance that was taken five years ago hasn`t played out for a number of reasons.
BEHAR: I think Alan should have a talk show.
BATTAGLIO: Well again, again - chances are reports of General Electric. This is the type of thing they like. They wanted to see a five- year plan. They wanted to see a transition. They wanted to see a way to protect "The Tonight Show" franchise for as long as he could.
BEHAR: Yes.
BATTAGLIO: Eventually, you got to make a choice.
BEHAR: Yes.
BATTAGLIO: And now they`ve made the choice. It`s going to be Jay.
BEHAR: Okay. Everyone`s jumping --
THICKE: I think - I think Jay will be forgiven. Jay will be forgiven, as you`ve mentioned, by his audience, as long as he doesn`t take steroids. That`s the one thing we can`t let happen.
BEHAR: That`s a killer. They`re going to take steroids to the chin already? Everyone`s jumping on the NBC bashing bandwagon. Take a look at last night`s Golden Globes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIA ROBERTS: You guys are in the toilet right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julia Roberts, we`re live on the air. I said that.
ROBERTS: I`m not saying in the toilet, I`m just saying there`s problems.
TOM HANKS: NBC said it was going to rain at 10:00 but they moved it to 11:30.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody`s taking shots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: What does it say when Julia Roberts and Tom Hanks are dumping on you?
BATTAGLIO: What happens is that -- you know, these late-night shows are -- they really guide the national conversation. And suddenly, they are the story. They`re what people are talking about. So now, you know, NBC has had to just sit there and take it. Because of what`s going on is being acted out in public. And being beamed back into the viewer`s living room.
DIPAULO: Their ratings were in the toilet long before this battle broke out - these late night battles. They`re just stinking up for years.
BEHAR: Yes but now ratings are through the roof now all of a sudden. People love a soap opera. That`s why we talk about the same things all the time.
BATTAGLIO: Oh that`s good. Exactly. It`s a saga. This is -- and also, it`s not just -- people don`t just watch these late-night shows now. It`s just not -- they also see the stuff throughout the day on YouTube, on CNN.
BEHAR: Right.
BATTAGLIO: It just becomes -- it just gets into the echo chamber and we hear about it over and over again.
BEHAR: Thank you very much guys, if you`re in New York this weekend, be sure to catch Nick DiPaulo performing at comics Thursday through Saturday. Up next, we`ll recap all the crazy speeches and bad behaviors in last flight`s Golden Globes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CAMERON: I`m going to try to make this as brief as I can because frankly I have to pee something fierce. I`m actually not well prepared because frankly I thought Kathryn was going to get this so I`m kind of winging it here. I just want to say - (UNINTELLIGBLE) which means "I see you, my brother and my sisters."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was James Cameron accepting the best director Golden Globe for "Avatar" which leads me to ask -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) which in a real language called Spanish means "what the hell is wrong with you?" also, it`s nice to see Mel Gibson`s appearance doesn`t cause a fury. Oh, sorry, I didn`t mean to mention Mel and fury in the same sentence.
Here to dish the dirt about last night and how it all might affect this year`s Oscar race is comedian and writer Bruce Vilanch. Dave Karger, Senior writer at Entertainment Weekly. And Associate Press Entertainer Editor Alicia Quarles. Okay, let`s start with you, Bruce. So making the sort of tacky TMI bathroom reference and then speaking in forth tongues. This is where Cameron`s at?
BRUCE VILANCH, COMEDIAN/WRITER: Well, first of all, it came two hours after the opening penis salvo from Ricky Gervais. Which is another Yiddish expression. Ricky, what the? It was totally in keeping. First of all, it`s the Golden Globes. It`s a pie throw. It`s a lot of overdressed people drunk at 5:00 on a Sunday afternoon and they know that, you know, it doesn`t mean anything particularly so by the time Cameron came on, they were all so sauced that, you know, it hardly mattered.
BEHAR: Dave, let me ask you, the last time Cameron won for "Titanic" he was the king of the world. He seemed subdued compared to that. Is he on some kind of medication?
DAVE KARGER, SENIOR WRITER ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Well maybe he`s learned a lesson. I`ll tell you something, I was actually at the Golden Globes last night. And when he made those speeches and started quoting the language that he basically invented by the way, I think half the audience was cheering and the other half was kind of rolling its eyes. But that is kind of exactly what happened with his I`m the king of the world speech. Some people were really into it. Other people thought it was so self indulgent. But I will give him props for crediting his ex-wife, Kathryn Bigelow, and saying he thought she was going to win because I think she probably deserved it.
BEHAR: Yes, that was sweet but you know, Cameron, he was the big winner. "Avatar" is the big winner these days. Does it deserve it?
ALICIA QUARLES, ASSOCIATED PRESS ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR: Absolutely, Avatar definitely deserves it. This was a movie 20 years in the making. In fact, James had to wait for the technology to catch up with the movie he had envision in his mind.
BEHAR: Right.
QUARLES: So what if he`s making up his own language. You know what, waiting for 20 years, he deserves it.
BEHAR: Very good. I hope you`re right. Listen, Bruce, listen, Bruce let me ask you something. Jeff Bridges won over George Clooney for best actor.
VILANCH: Right.
BEHAR: Do you think that was right?
VILANCH: Yeah. I think probably. I think that -- you know, first of all, it`s the Golden Globes. It is voted on by 83 wine stewards and valley parkers who pretend if they file stories to a newspaper in Croatia. I mean this is not like the Oscars which is voted on by people who actually make movies. This is voted on by people who have - who are fan boys and in love with various performers. And they put a great sense of occasion on themselves. They decided it was time that Jeff Bridges got recognized so they all --
BEHAR: He was quite good.
(CROSSTALK)
VILANCH: Why not? He deserved it. And Clooney`s been recognized before. And probably Clooney doesn`t want to have lunch with them. You know, a lot of --
BEHAR: But Clooney was so gorgeous.
VILANCH: From these guys -
BEHAR: Wasn`t he a hunk in that movie.
QUARLES: He is so fine in that movie. Gorgeous. And also, you know what, Hollywood loves a narrative. Last year it was Mickey Rourke. This year it could be Jeff Bridges. He didn`t take the fall like Mickey Rourke did. He`s always the bridesmaid, never the bride. Give him the award, he deserves it.
BEHAR: Here`s Ricky Gervais with one of the jokes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICKY GERVAIS: I hope I didn`t mean to offend anyone. It`s not my fault. A lot of powerful people here. Honestly, like a drink as much as the next man. Unless the next man is Mel Gibson.
All right. All right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Dave, you were there. How did that play in the room? Was it -- did they laugh or what? I mean, I don`t think that some of the Jewish people in Hollywood are so thrilled with Mel Gibson are they?
KRAGER: No. Without a doubt, they`re not. But the crowd was really into that side of Ricky Gervais` performance. I think the jokes that he made at other expense, people were really into. Although he did kind of make a crack that the Golden Globes could be bought, and then he said unofficially. When in actual fact it`s been well documented, I`ve written about this that it use to be that the Golden Globes voters would accept gifts from people who were trying to get nominations. There`s one year Sharon Stone had a movie called the Views, that no one really liked. And she gave all of the members of the Hollywood Foreign Press watches. And long and behold she got a best actress nomination.
Now they`ve changed their rules since and they`re not accepting those gifts anymore. But I do find it hysterical that these Hollywood stars who couldn`t care less about these journalist, the other 364 days of the year are bowing down to them and thanking them at the Golden Globes.
But you know what, Golden Globes does sell movie tickets and increases their salaries.
BEHAR: Uh huh. You referenced it but one joke, one joke seemed to kind of bombed at that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICKY GERVAIS: One thing that can`t be bought is the Golden Globe, officially. I`m not in the (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Bruce did the joke bomb because it was true?
VILANCH: Absolutely yes because they know that it can be bought. You buy it with lunches. Sharon Stone doesn`t have to give them a watch. She can give them a cheeseburger. I mean these people don`t do anything most of the year. All they do is have this credential of being part of the Hollywood Foreign Press. So it means nothing. And the easiest thing in the world is to wine and dine them and they vote for you. And it has very little bearing on the other awards in any events. So it - it -- people are sitting in that audience you know. They are in full makeup and the lights are on and cameras are crawling up their nose all over the place. And they don`t want to be seen laughing at the idea that they know that this thing can be bought or know how phony this award is.
BEHAR: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Do you agree with them?
QUARLES: Yes.
VILANCH: Well the movie people are there because they don`t want to not be there in case they win and they can make a fabulous Monique speech which will help them get an Oscar. And the TV people are there because they`re so excited to be near the movie people. I mean did you see those kids from Glee as they danced past Sophia Lauren? They were orgasmic.
BEHAR: I know they were. Everyone stay right there, we`ll be right back with some more of it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW BARRYMORE: Okay. I can do this. Michael, I`m sorry I got so nervous. I didn`t know the etiquette of coming up here when you win these awards because I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with Bruce Vilanch, David Karger, and Alicia Quarles we`re talking Golden Globes. Now, Drew Barrymore won for her show in Gray Gardens which I love -- don`t you love it?
QUARLES: I loved it. So, so good.
BEHAR: But she seemed it little (UNINTELLIGIBLE) girl.
QUARLES: Joy -
BEHAR: If she can`t -
QUARLES: I was hoping and praying that Drew won simply because I wanted to hear her speech. This is so true, you`ll never know what she`s going to say. Drew`s all over the place, but that`s the beauty with Drew. Her speech made no sense. It was rambling all over the place but that`s Drew Barrymore. I loved it.
BEHAR: Uh huh, David is that why they don`t serve booze at most of these award shows?
KARGER: Yes, I mean these people act for a living. You would think they could be more composed. I do find it funny. Listen, the Golden Globes are really fine. It`s always great to go but it`s hysterical to me that these celebrities melt into butter just because 83 journalist they don`t care about give them an award. It`s not the Oscars, it`s not the Emmys. It`s a fun show. But I`m often surprised at how melodramatic the people can me sometimes.
BEHAR: And I was impressed, oh, go ahead, go ahead, Bruce.
VILANCH: Look - who`s ever given Drew Barrymore an acting award? This is the first. You know I mean what she was saying there last night was that if it wasn`t for these people she`d be in celebrity rehab with Dr. Drew. I mean the other Drew. I mean Drew Barrymore has had notorious problems. I mean she was 7 years old when she went to the Golden Globes. So for her this is really -- represents a tremendous achievement.
BEHAR: Yes.
VILANCH: And she`s actually on top of her game. She`s acting for a living and that she`s all together and probably of all the people there, she was not drunk. I think that she was sober. So I think that she was just really, really excited.
BEHAR: Yeah.
VILANCH: And when you`re a Barrymore, this is your family, right?
BEHAR: I guess yes.
VILANCH: Show business, but when you`re a Barrymore, I don`t know, I wasn`t born a Barrymore,
BEHAR: I mean who wants them for relatives?
QUARLES: Yes.
VILANCH: Yes, that`s another thing.
BEHAR: That`s another thing. You know I couldn`t help notice the contrast between the fact that Golden Globes and all the dress and everything. And all the hoopla and yet Haiti was happening. So Meryl Streep had enough class to mention Haiti. Let`s watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MERYL STREEP: I am really honestly conflicted how to have my happy movie self in the face of everything that I`m aware of in the real world. And I want to say that that`s when I have my mother`s voice coming to me saying partners in health, shoot some money to partners in health.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Bruce it`s hard to juggle the two of them, isn`t it, when you`re writing this? I know you write for the Oscar`s.
VILANCH: Yes.
BEHAR: So how do you do that when there`s a tragic thing going on in the world.
VILANCH: Well you make mention of it the way Nicole Kidman did at the very beginning of the show by indicating George Clooney`s telethon is going to be on later this week and you let them know why you`re all wearing ribbons about it. And the whole show was done in the shadow of the tragedy in Haiti but at the same time, there is a show to do and there are awards to be given and it`s nice to get an acting award and you put it in perspective.
BEHAR: Right, right.
QUARLES: And I think escape is key. I think it`s been such a heavy time for the whole entire world, it was a breathe of relief to go and see these Hollywood stars, dressed up, still making mention but we could just let our minds escape for a little bit and get caught up in the glamour of that night.
BEHAR: Right, okay thanks to all my guests
(CROSSTALK)
KARGER: It didn`t feel as wrong as it normally does, that was appropriate.
BEHAR: Right, okay, well, thanks everybody for joining me in this conversation, and thank you all for watching, good night everybody.
END
