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Nancy Grace

Missing Baby Gabriel May Be Disguised as a Girl

Aired January 20, 2010 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A gorgeous 23-year-old mom takes off from her Tempe, Arizona, home by car for a thousand-mile road trip with a beautiful 8-month-old baby, Gabriel. Mommy spends Christmas holed up in a local San Antonio motel, calling the 25-year-old bio dad, threatening he`d never see the baby again, even saying she killed baby Gabriel. Turns out Mommy`s trying to give the baby away the whole time to an Arizona couple.

Mommy alone, no baby, hops a bus to Florida December 27, 24 hours after the last credible sighting of baby Gabriel alive, her car abandoned. December 30th, cops find Mommy Miami Beach, no baby. Car recovered San Antonio, baby`s carseat still inside. When pressed, Mommy says she gives the baby away to a couple she just bumps into at a Texas state park.

Bombshell tonight. Is baby Gabriel alive and disguised as a girl? Police investigating, but why? And tonight, new details tracking Mommy`s movements. We now know she heads to a local library and logs on to the motel computer, but can those e-mails be salvaged? Johnson on MySpace just days after her baby boy vanishes telling friends her mood was, quote, "adventurous," Johnson back on MySpace repeatedly just before she`s arrested in Miami Beach.

Police confirm tonight there are two parallel investigations, missing child and homicide. Tonight, where is baby Gabriel?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOGAN MCQUEARY, GABRIEL`S FATHER: I think about it every single day, whether he`s dead or alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are concerned for Gabriel. We don`t know where Gabriel`s at.

MCQUEARY: The only conversation I did have with her was right after she had sent me the (INAUDIBLE) that she had killed Gabriel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quite frankly, we don`t know if he`s dead or if he`s alive right now.

MCQUEARY: She said that, I stuffed him in a diaper bag and -- she suffocated him, put him in a diaper bag and put him in the dumpster.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives have searched dumpsters.

MCQUEARY: I want to believe that he is alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives are looking into the possibility that someone has changed the boy`s appearance to look like a girl. These are the last-known photos of Gabriel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gabriel`s mother took them when she and her 8- month-old were on the run in Texas. They show Gabriel holding a medicine dropper, looking groggy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that investigators are hoping to gain more information from these photos and develop a timeline.

GRACE: If they were taken on one of those digicams, a digital camera, did she send them to anyone?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know at one point, when she was at the Homegate Suites hotel here in San Antonio, from the desk clerk -- that at one point, she did use the computer there in the lobby of that hotel. If that`s the case, there`s a very easy way for her to send those photos out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hopefully, it`ll give us some sort of leads as to figure out what baby Gabriel`s last days might have been.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, to South Carolina, a 12-year-old boy vanishes from a local McDonald`s. Only clue, his little bicycle found abandoned there in the McDonald`s parking lot. Who took 12-year-old Brett Smith?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s just 12 years old, but tonight he`s missing. Brett Smith left his home around 1:00 PM Monday on his bicycle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deputies say Brett was last seen riding his bike around the block, a common activity here in this family-friendly neighborhood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was the last time anyone saw Brett.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The real concern, however, came when his bike was found at a nearby McDonald`s without him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His bike found just seven hours later at a South Carolina McDonald`s, but no sign of the boy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His parents say he hasn`t done anything like this before, so of course, this is another concern of ours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say Brett Smith is 5-foot-05, 140 pounds, with brown hair and blue eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While several state agencies have been notified of Brett`s description, as well as national ones, an Amber Alert hasn`t been issued.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement asking anyone with information to call South Carolina Crimestoppers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, is baby Gabriel alive and disguised as a girl? Police investigating, but why? And just days after her baby boy vanishes, Mommy`s on MySpace telling her friends she`s, quote, "adventurous." I bet she is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it`s a very real possibility that Elizabeth killed Gabriel.

ELIZABETH JOHNSON, GABRIEL`S MOTHER: Everything is so false.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s also a possibility that she handed Gabriel off to somebody else.

MCQUEARY: I want to believe that she did give him away, so that maybe he`s safe and he`s with, you know, somebody that`s taking care of him right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on her own statements going back and forth, we`ve shown that she`s not truthful.

JOHNSON: Everything that she said is so completely false.

GRACE: Police now state they are working a parallel investigation, a missing child and a homicide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caught in the middle of a custodial tug-of-war, detectives say Gabriel`s mom, Elizabeth Johnson, took the boy to San Antonio, where he vanished. Detectives are looking into the possibility that someone changed the boy`s appearance to look like a girl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He may be alive, but we also, unfortunately, have to proceed with the investigation that she may have killed him. They have checked the dumpsters there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have, you know, cubic yards and tons of trash that they`d have to pick through, not to mention that if there`s -- if there`s -- if, indeed, there is a death, the decomposition does deteriorate any type of viable evidence that might be helpful in determining what the cause of death was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that those photographs were taken at that Homegate hotel in San Antonio.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re very heartbreaking, I mean, because his clothes are just filthy and he looks like he`s out of it. He looks worn out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What they can do is look at the card, the memory card that`s in her camera, and try to find out if there`s images that might have been deleted that might give us more information about the baby`s whereabouts.

MCQUEARY: She`s very, very stubborn, very secretive. She -- you know, it`s hard to get anything out of her. I`m just hoping, you know, she`ll have a change of mind and change of heart and just tell somebody exactly what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Is baby Gabriel alive and being disguised as a girl? And Mommy on MySpace describing her mood as "adventurous" just about 24 to 72 hours after her baby boy disappears? I don`t like it!

Straight out to Mike Sakal with "The East Valley Tribune." Mike, what can you tell me about the possibility this baby is alive and disguised as a girl?

MIKE SAKAL, "EAST VALLEY TRIBUNE," (via telephone): Well, Tempe police -- they continue to say they are looking into everything and all possibilities with this baby, whether he is dead or alive, and also, if Elizabeth did give Gabriel away, like she says she did, that this couple can really, you know, want to keep this baby and are doing what they can to keep him under wraps.

GRACE: And what can you tell me, Mike Sakal? Are police searching or not searching San Antonio landfills and trash dumps?

SAKAL: That is what I have heard. I have not confirmed any of that from the FBI...

GRACE: Well, wait! Well, wait!

SAKAL: ... the FBI in San Antonio...

GRACE: You said that`s what you`ve heard. What have you heard?

SAKAL: I`ve heard they are definitely focusing their search in San Antonio, as well as waiting to see if the tip in Nashville leads to anything.

GRACE: What tip in Nashville?

SAKAL: The one of the lady that Tammi Smith was connected to in regards to helping with adoption information.

GRACE: OK. What more can you tell me, Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story, about the Nashville tip? And I`m not getting a clear answer. It`s a yes or no, OK? Just try, yes or no. Are you with me, Matt?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes. Yes, I`m with you.

GRACE: Are police currently searching landfills or trash dumps?

ZARRELL: No.

GRACE: Why? They must know something that suggests the baby`s alive.

ZARRELL: That`s a good point. At this point, the only thing that we know is we know cops know exactly where in the landfill the garbage was dumped, but at this point, they`re not searching. They`re not sending cadaver dogs out there, at this point.

GRACE: Do you know why, Matt?

ZARRELL: No. Cops are being very tight-lipped at this point. They`re just -- the only thing that they`re doing is they`re asking the public to help. They`re having trouble getting tips in. They`re begging anyone, if anyone knows anything, even if it`s the tiniest information, please call police.

GRACE: Well, we can thank the baby-sitter. As soon as she heard about this story, she immediately came forward. She can verify a lot of the story we know so far about the baby there in the San Antonio Motel 6. But what else can you tell me about this Nashville tip? Now, I know that - - I believe it was Tammi Smith, the would-be adoptive mother, put her in touch with a woman that handles adoptions in Nashville. And the mom, Elizabeth Johnson, spoke to this contact by phone. Is that correct, Matt?

ZARRELL: Yes, it is correct.

GRACE: What more do we know?

ZARRELL: Well, apparently, from what Tammi Smith tells us, the conversation did not go well. Janet (ph) -- this woman, Janet Morris (ph), was trying to convince Elizabeth Johnson to bring the baby home. It did not work out. Now, police did, apparently, a "knock and talk" in Nashville. They went to a number of homes and questioned people just to try and get the word out. So far, we haven`t heard any leads coming from there, but police are being tight-lipped.

GRACE: Elizabeth, if you don`t mind, please show me some before and after photos. You`re seeing before photos. And when you compare baby Gabriel before and after Mommy goes on the run, you can see that his face has lost weight. He looks -- his eyes are droopy in some of his photos. If you look at them carefully, as we have done, specifically, the little onesie on the left, it`s not clean. It`s dirty. Look at the picture of him on the left right there. This is of when he`s on the run with Mommy. These photos have just emerged. They`ve been released by police for us to see. In some of them, he`s even clutching a medicine bottle.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Eva in Georgia. What`s your question, Eva?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, have they checked any of the bus stations along the routes from San Antonio to Florida, any of the garbage dumps there?

GRACE: Well, we know, Eva, that when she got on the bus in San Antonio to go to Miami Beach, she was alone. She did not have the baby with her. Is that correct, Mike Sakal?

SAKAL: That is correct. She was seen on video surveillance leaving the parking lot of the Motel 6 without the child, going towards the bus station. She did have a backpack on her, or a duffel bag. We do not know what was in that duffel bag, but she was not seen with the child as she was getting on the bus.

GRACE: To Matt Zarrell. Was that duffel bag recovered when she was arrested?

ZARRELL: As far as we know, it was not at this point. Police aren`t saying.

GRACE: Because if they`ve got it, they can check it for DNA. Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Is baby Gabriel alive and disguised as a little girl?

As we go to break, everyone, as you know, thousands suffering in Haiti. Don`t let this be another missed opportunity in life to do something good. Please call 800-554-8583 or go to United Methodist Committee on Relief -- .com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCQUEARY: I want to believe that he is alive. I just want her to tell the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to look into all leads and all information that we have available.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to carry on with the course that he may be alive, but we also, unfortunately, have to proceed with the investigation that she may have killed him.

GRACE: Telling the biological father that you smothered the baby, concealed his body in a diaper bag and threw him away in the trash is reason to suspect the child is dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s playing everybody like an absolute yo-yo. What she`s doing is cruel, vicious and absolutely inhumane.

TAMMI PETERS SMITH, HOPED TO ADOPT GABRIEL: I just knew the second I saw her, There is something wrong there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was kind of weird the way he was acting and the way she was treating him. I did consider calling CPS.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whether the child is in a home, whether the child has been taken across the border of Mexico, whether the child is at the bottom of a landfill, we have to try to find, you know, the information the best we can to try to recover Gabriel, whether it`s dead or alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Is the baby still alive but disguised as a girl?

We are taking your calls live. To Elizabeth in Kentucky. Hi, Elizabeth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, hi, Nancy.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. I was wanting to see if maybe the mom -- did she have -- where did she get her money from, or is she using a credit card where they can trace what -- you know, where she went?

GRACE: Excellent question. Matt Zarrell, we`ve tried to track down the money amount as best as we can. We know she had cash. She had expensive manicures and pedicures while she was on the lam. And she went on a couple of shopping sprees and bought all new clothes for herself. But when the baby-sitter was in the motel room, there was hardly anything for baby Gabriel. How does the money add up? Hold on. I know that she sold her dog or dogs, right before she left, for a couple hundred dollars. She took in a renter for $400 or $500. What else do we know? Did she sell her laptop?

ZARRELL: Yes. Apparently, she sold her laptop. She gave away baby clothes. But what`s interesting, Nancy, is what police are saying is the numbers just don`t add up. If you add up the hotel stays, the visits to the salon, the bus ticket, all of it, the gas for the trip, it doesn`t add up. How did she still have almost $500 in cash with her when she was arrested in Miami?

GRACE: We also learned that from behind bars, she has admitted that she will not cooperate with police in finding baby Gabriel because she`s already looking at hard time for interference with custody and kidnap. Now, is that incentive not to help police find your missing baby?

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Right now, you are seeing her MySpace. This is where she logged in after the baby goes missing. The baby vanishes, we know for a fact, 12:27. It says "Kiss my A-S-S suckers." That`s her frame of mind.

Not only that, lawyers -- Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, Atlanta, John Burris, defense attorney, San Francisco. What about it, Rockwell? Your client writes on line, "Kiss my ass suckers," and then describes her mood as adventurous. This is after her baby`s missing.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I sure hope you don`t think that`s going to be...

GRACE: I want to see -- please put Rockwell and Burris up. I want to watch them as they try to explain this. Go ahead, please.

ROCKWELL: OK, Nancy. You sure don`t think that that`s going to be used against her in court.

GRACE: Yes.

ROCKWELL: I would be more concerned about what she`s saying...

GRACE: Yes, I think -- well, first of all -- first of all, since you opened the door to that, Ms. Rockwell, let me tell you how it`s going to come in under the evidentiary code -- to go to frame of mind, motive, course of conduct, intent. She wrote that. That was her state of mind in the hours after her baby vanishes.

ROCKWELL: I`m not concerned about that being used as something that is going to be held against her as incriminating. What she needs to be worried about, Nancy, is what she`s telling other people. Number one, she told the baby`s father, I`m going to kill the baby...

GRACE: OK, wait. Wait. Stop. Elizabeth, did I ask you to please put Renee and Burris up? Thank you. I want to see -- now you say that`s not going to come in as evidence?

ROCKWELL: No...

GRACE: I explained to you how it will. Then you say, Well, I don`t care about that. OK, what`s your fallback?

ROCKWELL: Nancy, what I`m saying is that is not good, relevant evidence against her. What`s going to come in is the fact that she`s told the father, Hey, I killed the baby, stuffed him...

GRACE: Agreed.

ROCKWELL: ... in a dumpster, put him in a diaper bag, the baby`s gone. Then she`s gotten into some other kind of affairs with people where she`s talking about adopting the child out, et cetera.

What is important that I think that`s a new development, Nancy, is that she`s been now charged with a conspiracy to interfere with the custody. I wonder if there`s some more people that have been discovered and are about to be arrested and the cops are just not saying anything.

GRACE: To John Burris, weigh in.

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t think that it`s going to come into evidence on the question what happened to the child. It may be state of mind. It may be character evidence (INAUDIBLE) how she is as a person. But in terms of evidence to prove a particular crime, I don`t think that evidence -- that comes in as evidence that`s relevant on that issue, state of mind or not, because it`s not the state of mind how she is as a terrible person. The question is state of mind and whether she killed someone or killed this baby or kidnapped this baby. And I don`t think it comes in for that purpose at all.

GRACE: When we come back, Marc Klaas and Jack and Tammi Smith, the would-be adoptive parents who have been named persons of interest in baby Gabriel`s disappearance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: Elizabeth Johnson, 7/24/86.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Arizona mother of -- at the center of the baby Gabriel missing boy case is now in jail in Maricopa County, Arizona.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s currently facing charges of kidnapping, which is a class 2 felony, child abuse, which is a class 4 felony, and custodial interference.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The defendant is the only person who knows where Gabriel is, if he`s dead or alive.

MCQUEARY: I do believe she`d give him away and not really care about it because she didn`t really seem like -- you know, she was never really around. I kind of see how it was kind of easy for her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Joining us, in addition to Marc Klaas tonight, of Klaas Kids Foundation, Jack and Tammi Smith, the would-be adoptive parents. To Tammi Smith, what do you make -- thank you, first of all, for being with us. What do you make of her saying from behind bars she`s not going to cooperate with police in finding baby Gabriel because she`s already looking at hard time, so it won`t help her any?

TAMMI PETERS SMITH: I`m really upset about that. And I was really hoping that, you know, maybe police would, you know, make a plea bargain with her, that if she would help them find the baby, maybe they would change that or something and -- I don`t know. They just need to find the baby.

GRACE: Were you surprised, Jack Smith, when you heard that? I mean, have you ever heard anything more than self-serving in your life, I refuse to help find my baby unless there`s something in it for me?

JACK SMITH, HOPED TO ADOPT GABRIEL: No. No, I`d say it was quite a shock to me.

GRACE: And I want to add for the lawyers` benefit, she said that not to police but to a visitor in the jail, which means it`s not constitutionally protected. That can come in at trial.

We`re taking your calls, but first to Marc Klaas. Weigh in, Marc. What do you think at this juncture? What about the theory that he is alive and disguised as a girl?

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I think -- as far as that goes, what can you do to disguise this little boy? You can pierce his ears. You can put him in pink clothing. He`s going to have the same face. I mean, there`s very little that you can really do with babies.

I believe that -- here`s part of the problem. This woman has absolutely no credibility whatsoever, forcing law enforcement and the other authorities to investigate absolutely everything that comes out of her mouth, which obviously wastes an awful lot of resources.

GRACE: It`s just like Casey Anthony.

KLAAS: Oh, yes.

GRACE: And you know, you were upset, angry, earlier last week about people trashing the father, the bio dad.

KLAAS: Yes.

GRACE: Listen, nobody believes anything this woman says -- anything this woman says, nothing. In fact, I typically believe the opposite from what she says, Marc Klaas.

KLAAS: Yes, absolutely. And I think people have to listen very carefully to Logan. He`s the closest to the baby. He knows more about this baby than anybody but Elizabeth.

GRACE: Everyone, thousands suffering in Haiti. Don`t let this be an opportunity you miss to do something good. Dial 800-554-8583 or go to Umcor, United Methodist Community on Relief.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Police now state they are working a parallel investigation, a missing child and a homicide.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There`s an investigation in Arizona through the Tempe Police Department. There`s also an investigation in San Antonio to be able to try to track down some of that information. If she did, in fact, meet someone at a park. About the two hotels, digging more into this babysitter.

TAMMI PETERS SMITH, PLANNED TO ADOPT BABY GABRIEL: I just knew the second I saw her, there is something wrong there. And I just immediately - - what do you want to do with your baby?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to look into all leads and all the information that we have available. One of the pieces of information being out of Elizabeth`s mouth to Logan that she killed Gabriel.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: These are the last-known photos of Gabriel from the San Antonio hotel room where the boy may have been drugged.

ANALISA URIAS, ALLEGEDLY BABYSAT BABY GABRIEL IN SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS: She told me that she had already drugged him up with medication but that if he started to cry again just to give him more medicine to shut him up.

GRACE: She didn`t just text the daddy that the baby`s dead, she called him on the phone and elaborated saying, I suffocated him. I smothered him to death. Put him in the diaper bag and threw him away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s the last one with the baby. She had motive to get rid of the baby. She`s the one that`s fleeing. She`s the one that won`t cooperate.

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: The fact that she continues to remain silent, that continues to stonewall, that this has taken so many ominous turns including those heartbreaking pictures leads one to believe that it`s probably closer to a homicide investigation at this point than it is to a missing person investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "Killing for Sport." Pat, help us. What do you make of this woman? What do you make of the theory the child is alive dressed as a girl, disguised? And also, which is a conundrum for me, why cops are not searching the landfills and the dumpsters.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": I have no idea. I think they`re grasping at straws with that baby-turned-into-a- girl routine.

Let`s look at the three possibilities and Elizabeth. The first one is that she was involved in some kind of underground network. Now if she was doing that, she would have rolled over on Tammi Smith or rolled over on the network real quick to get herself out of trouble.

Secondly, she`d given away the baby in a park to some luckily sterile couple who wanted to take an 8-month-old and be charged with kidnapping. And also show up some place that they looked, I birthed an 8-month-old yesterday. That is a ludicrous story. And she would have said that baby was kidnapped rather than giving the baby away so she would get out of trouble.

So the only story left that she has a problem with really telling is that she killed the baby. And the only thing she`s going to say is, I gave the baby away, because it`s better than saying you killed the baby.

So that`s where I stand. I have never believed anything else.

GRACE: What about it -- to Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist joining us out of New York.

Patricia, what do you think?

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think there are two other possibilities, Nancy. One is that she did sell the baby. And it`s also possible that she either killed the baby deliberately or the baby died of an overdose from the Tylenol.

What I think is going on in a deeper level and why she`s stone-walling is that she finally feels in control of something. This is a woman whose whole life has been out of control and out of her control. Five foster homes, drug addicted father. A woman who`s angry, impulsive, defiant and anti-social.

GRACE: Back to the lines, Sheila, Illinois. Hi, Sheila.

SHEILA, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy. I just find this whole case just shocking. But my question is, if Elizabeth did hurt Gabriel in Texas, will they haul her back to Texas for this crime? And is there some way that we can interrogate her and make her talk like she was a -- you know, like they do the terrorists?

GRACE: Well, Sheila, in my dreams, but there`s the Constitution problem. OK? You can`t force anybody to talk. You can`t beat them, force them, threaten them. You can trick them. You can also use statements that are made even behind bars to non-police or non-state agents.

As far as, for instance, giving them Sodium Pentothal to make them tell the truth, no can do. None of that is allowed in the Constitution. But let`s take a look at jurisdiction.

Renee Rockwell, John Burris, the issue is going to be if she did kill the child, where? Now, all bets are going to be San Antonio, but when you cannot prove where the murder occurred you can go with jurisdiction where she was found and that would have been Miami.

What about it, Burris?

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think that`s true. It could be in Miami, but I think more likely than not it`s going to be in Texas. I mean that`s where the baby was last seen and she was seen leaving Texas without the baby.

So Texas seems the natural place to me. I don`t see where Miami can really claim that they want to do it, particularly when it`s pretty clear that the baby was never there given that she was seen leaving. So Texas seems to me the best.

GRACE: I agree. What about it, Renee?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m going to agree with that. But Nancy, you`ve got the FBI, you`ve got San Antonio police, you`ve got the Maricopa County. You`ve got so many jurisdictions involved. And thank God you`ve got the FBI running this circus.

But nothing is going to happen, Nancy, until they decide that there is a body of a child or that the child exists.

GRACE: Right. Yes.

ROCKWELL: . somewhere else in some other people`s hands.

GRACE: Let`s talk about the fact that she has been logging on to computers leaving a trail a mile wide. Now come on. She goes to the local San Antonio library while the baby`s back at the motel. It`s about 1.2 miles away from the motel where she`s staying.

Don`t bother to tell me, John Burris or Renee Rockwell, that she`s checking out a library book, all right? So she`s going there to log on.

What do we have to do, Pat Brown, to get that hard drive? It hasn`t been taken yet, for all that we know. How do we trace her e-mails? She also logged on at the motel, in the lobby.

BROWN: Well, I certainly hope they would get that kind of information because this could lead to whether she was contacting somebody to find a babysitter, whether she was just enjoying talking to her friends, her state of mind, again, or that she was looking for some way to earn money, perhaps going on Craigslist and finding a guy who wants to pay her for something, so she can keep on the road.

Or whether she`s involved in some kind of baby transaction. They`re going to have to find that. They need that information. I would assume they`ve already gotten it. I can`t believe they wouldn`t.

GRACE: I want to go back out to Jack and Tammi Smith, the would-be adoptive Arizona parents. They never got baby Gabriel.

Tammi, how often was she contacting you by e-mail?

T. SMITH: Not until the very end. Well, actually the first time, sorry, was through MySpace and that was that day when Logan called me and we -- me and Logan for the first time got hooked up talking and she had contacted me that way.

I think we probably sent a couple e-mails back and forth through MySpace and then that was it.

GRACE: What were the gist of the e-mails?

T. SMITH: Pretty much telling her -- you know, I think the first one was basically you need to give us a call and then there was one that I had sent I think I was telling her to call Detective Aguilera. Was it Detective Aguilera? I think -- yes, Detective Aguilera.

And that Detective Aguilera told me that he was a negotiator by trade and that maybe he could help her out. And I told her that he was really nice all this stuff. And then the police asked me to do another e-mail to her basically stating that if she would bring the baby to any police station and just have them confirm, go to any police officer and confirm that he is, in fact, alive and well.

GRACE: And?

T. SMITH: And I never heard back after that one. I didn`t hear anything back.

GRACE: Jack, what do you make of her going on a spending spree with expensive pedicures and manicures and wildly spending on clothes for herself, going out partying in a mid-drift tight, low rise jeans and stilettos?

JACK SMITH, PLANNED TO ADOPT BABY GABRIEL: What can you say about that? I know that she had a conversation with Tammi. The last conversation that was in the jail and she said she left here with $2,000. She sold some jewelry and some other stuff.

So as far as the stilettos and all that stuff, I don`t know anything about the pedicures and manicures and all that.

(CROSSTALK)

J. SMITH: I`m sorry, she did.

GRACE: You go ahead.

J. SMITH: I`m sorry. She -- but Tammi noticed that at least in the jail when she saw her that she didn`t have a manicure then. But it could have been gone.

T. SMITH: Right.

GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls live. But as we go to break, a happy birthday to New York friend of the show, Rose Paladin (ph). At 103 she never misses a show. Loves her family and her prized card she received from President Obama.

She drinks 12 cups of coffee a day with 10 sugars in each cup and has done so all her life and never, ever a single operation. Well, that`s words to live by, people.

Happy birthday, Rose.

And a very special happy 80th to Maryland friend, Joan Epstein. Isn`t she beautiful? Here she is with her children, Mitchi, Dave, and Kathy Lee.

Miss Epstein, you`re such a wonderful mother. You know the proof is in the pudding. I just wonder if Kathie Lee Gifford got that beautiful singing voice from you.

Everyone, tonight, as you know, thousands suffering in Haiti. Don`t let this be your missed opportunity to do good. Please, call 800-554-8583 or go to the United Methodist Committee on Relief, umcor.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He`s just 12 years old, but tonight he`s missing. Law enforcement needs your help searching for Brett Smith. Police say he`s last seen at his home on Monday afternoon. Leaving on his bicycle. But that`s where the trail runs cold.

Brett`s bike turning up later that day at a McDonald`s but no sign of Brett. How does a 12-year-old boy simply vanish?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: At a local McDonald`s, the only clue, his bicycle left abandoned. To Faye Alexander, senior reporter, News Talk 1320 WIS, we`re trying to figure out where and who took Brett Alexander Smith. Just 12 years old. He is white, 5`5", 140 pounds, brown hair, blue eyes.

Look at him. He practically looks like Opie in "Andy of Mayberry." Look at that smile.

Back to you, Faye Alexander, what can you tell us?

FAYE ALEXANDER, SENIOR REPORTER, NEWS TALK 1320, WIS: Well, right now it`s not looking like Brett was abducted and it doesn`t seem like that there`s any imminent or immediate harm to Brett.

Brett is in foster care. We have established that. We are not sure where the biological parents are but we believe he may be trying to find them in Aiken County, a good hour, hour and a half away from.

GRACE: OK. Hold on just a moment. To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer.

Ellie, the parents, the bio parents, have been found, correct?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, we don`t know that for certain. Apparently there`s no evidence that he was able to get in touch with these family members.

GRACE: So he`s not with his parents to our knowledge.

JOSTAD: Right.

GRACE: Nobody knows where he is.

JOSTAD: That`s right.

GRACE: His bike was abandoned at a McDonald`s.

JOSTAD: Right.

GRACE: So, could you explain to me, Marc Klaas, how anybody could say this child is not in danger?

KLAAS: I don`t know how anybody can say that. I mean, this is -- these are ominous circumstances. This is reminiscent of Shawn Hornbeck. This is reminiscent of Jacob Wetterling, both -- who were riding bicycles when they disappeared. And neither of those had a satisfactory outcome. And certainly the Hornbeck case did but many, many years later.

GRACE: Well, if you call being kidnapped against your will, likely sexually assaulted.

KLAAS: Sure.

GRACE: . for a period of time, that`s a happy ending? The happy part of that is they`re alive.

KLAAS: Yes.

GRACE: Praise the Lord.

KLAAS: Yes -- no, that`s absolutely -- no, this is ominous. And I think that law enforcement has to look upon this as an abduction until they are shown something else. He -- if he`s missing and he`s gone and has been gone for a significant amount of time and it`s not in his history to do something like that, then there`s definitely something wrong here.

GRACE: To Dr. Eric Braverman, internal medicine, founder of Path Medical Center.

Doctor, thank you very much for being with us tonight. I find it to be a very disturbing clue or evidence that his bicycle is found at a public place and he`s not there.

What evidence, if any, could be obtained from the bicycle? Possibly DNA?

DR. ERIC BRAVERMAN, M.D., INTERNAL MEDICINE, FOUNDER OF PATH MEDICAL CENTER: Sure. Look for injury, look for blood, look for saliva. I mean, obviously, you think a kid like that was picked up and either tried to hitchhike or thought he could get to his parents. But obviously he`s in danger and not able to understand the risks.

I mean, the case is obviously scary and a child in foster care is at risk for seeking his parents and it`s a heartbreaker.

GRACE: Well, Dr. Braverman -- everyone, Dr. Eric Braverman joining us tonight from New York, the founder of Path Medical Center.

A little boy this age is probably in the fourth or fifth grade. Do you believe he could fend for himself? I just find it very difficult to believe he`s out there on his own and nobody`s spotted him.

BRAVERMAN: No, this child is in some ways -- unless he took outward bound courses, not able to fend for himself. Not going to take water or the right things. He`s obviously vulnerable to attack, either sexually or otherwise.

And so -- you know, he`s really at risk and we have to understand why even at 12 years old you`re allowed to go to McDonald`s. I mean any normal parent would say, Brett, you know, Brett, you know -- kidnapped in your place, so Gabriel, I`d die in your place.

You really have to ask yourself, what`s going on here with the parental supervision? The first case sounds like you were dealing with manic psychosis, adventurous, where you really have a mother going of the deep end in a type of manic psychosis. In this case you really have inadequate supervision for a 12-year-old.

GRACE: And we`ve just recently dealt with, Dr. Braverman, other bike abductions. Of course, Marc Klaas mentioned Shawn Hornbeck and, of course, Jacob Wetterling. Also there`s Amber Hagerman. There are many, many. Michael Palmer. Bike abductions.

Take a look at them. Mikelle Biggs. It goes on and on and on. Janice Pockett. Look at the faces of these children. Patricia Ann Miles. The list is endless of bike abductions. Charles Henderson. There`s Chucky Mauk. He was murdered on his bicycle many, many years ago, and it`s never been solved.

And now we`ve got this little boy, Brett Alexander Smith, just 12 years old, he`s probably in the fourth grade. The only thing left behind is his bicycle at a McDonald`s.

How many of you parents let your kids go in and out of McDonald`s without you being with them? A lot of people do it. Not anymore, I pray to God.

I take my twins there -- to you, Ellie Jostad -- all the time, to play in the play center. I never leave them alone. But it -- you know, they have McDonald`s set up to attract children.

JOSTAD: Well, and Nancy, it`s not clear that the parents let him go to McDonald`s. It sounds like the parents just thought he was going to ride around the neighborhood. This is apparently a very family-friendly neighborhood. It`s the Magnolia Hall neighborhood near the Columbia, South Carolina area.

They thought he was just going to ride around the neighborhood and then he never shows up. And then, you know, seven hours later they find his bike abandoned at McDonald`s. And that`s where the concern comes from. He wasn`t supposed to go there.

GRACE: And to you, Pat Brown. Did you see that map Liz just put up for us? Over 100 sex offenders in a 10-mile radius. Where would a pedophile go? McDonald`s.

BROWN: That`s one of the places and just the fact that the little boy is running around in his bicycle he is easy to attract for one reason or another. Especially if he`s been in foster care for a lot of his life. We don`t know that yet. But if he has been, he`s used to being around a lot of different people and moving in and out of different circumstances.

So he`s the kind of child that`s easy to approach and chat with, who may go with you if you offer something that`s -- anything attractive just for that moment and grab him.

GRACE: What about it, Pat Saunders?

SAUNDERS: Twelve-year-old boys like adolescents think they`re going to live forever, and even if he has some knowledge of stranger danger, he`s not thinking of that. He`s got target painted all over him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twelve-year-old Brett Smith left his home around 1:00 p.m. Monday on his bicycle. That was the last time anyone saw Brett. His bike found just seven hours later at a South Carolina McDonald`s but no sign of the boy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lines, Elizabeth in Arizona. Hi, Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH, CALLER FROM ARIZONA: Hi, Nancy. I`m so happy that I got through. I love you so much. We watch your show every night.

GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?

ELIZABETH: I was just curious how Brett was able to find his adoptive parents. Has he been in foster care his entire life or.

GRACE: You mean find his natural parents?

ELIZABETH: Yes.

GRACE: Hold on, Ellie Jostad, how did he find them?

JOSTAD: Well, actually, Nancy, it`s not clear that he did find them. And that`s, you know, part of the problem here. They say that there is this theory he may have gone out to seek some other family members but they don`t have any evidence that he`s been able to get in touch with them and it doesn`t sound like they know where he is right now.

GRACE: This is breaking my heart if this kid did go try to find his natural born parents and he`s never been seen since. The only clue, his bicycle left behind at a local McDonald`s.

To you, Marc Klaas, why no Amber Alert?

KLAAS: Well, I don`t know why there`s no Amber Alert. But there`s something that really kind of bothers me that`s been said here is this whole idea of putting leashes on 12-year-old kids.

I think what we have to do is arm them with good information so they make right choice, correct choices, and make sure that they all have cell phones with them so that we can do two things. Number one, have 24/7 connectivity and number two, be able to ultimately track them with GPS if that becomes necessary.

GRACE: Agree. Very quickly, Betty in Florida, hi, dear, what`s your question?

BETTY, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Doesn`t McDonald`s has security cameras outside?

GRACE: Excellent question. Ellie Jostad, what do we know?

JOSTAD: We don`t know if they do for sure. But one would assume so. Police aren`t telling us if they`ve got those tapes so.

GRACE: OK. There`s no Amber Alert, we don`t know if they`ve got the tapes from McDonald`s. There you have the state of the disappearance of 12-year-old Brett Alexander Smith. Tip line, 1-888-CRIME-SC, 888-CRIME-SC.

Let`s stop and remember CIA security officer Scott Michael Roberson, 39, Tolland, Connecticut, killed, Afghanistan. A friend, he received his degree in criminology, became an APD, Atlanta Police officer, then a detective, working undercover narcotics.

He later served in the U.N. security forces in Kosovo, continued several tours in Iraq. An animal lover, had many friends. A wonderful sense of humor, extensive knowledge of B movie quotes.

Proud of co-founding the Metro Atlanta Police Emerald Society. He loved riding a motorcycle with the iron pigs. He leaves behind a grieving wife, Molly. Their soon to arrive daughter Piper. Parents Harry and Sally, sister Amy and dear friends Kelly, David, Greg, Scott.

Michael Roberson -- Scott Michael Roberson, American hero.

Thank you to our guests but our biggest thank you is to you. And a special good night tonight from Brazilian friend of the show, Nazare (ph).

Everyone, see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END