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President Obama's Budget Freeze; Video of Roeder Arrest Released; Man Arrested Harboring Large Arsenal; Company With Fraud Conviction Receives Stimulus Funds; Police Brutally Beat Young Boy

Aired January 26, 2010 - 15:00   ET



RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Making the LIST right now.

Call him Mr. Freeze.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The freeze that the president is talking about is a scalpel, not a sledgehammer.

SANCHEZ: Taking a page from the GOP talking points, the president freezes discretionary spending. Take that.

Look what three police officers are accused of doing to this child. They thought he had a gun. It was a soda bottle.

MEL GIBSON, ACTOR: I gather you have a dog in this fight.

SANCHEZ: Mel Gibson at it again. Was he being anti-Semitic again?

Who is comparing Jay Leno to Hitler? Really?

SEN. JOHN ENSIGN (R), NEVADA: I am not going to answer that question.

SANCHEZ: He could not answer my questions. Now the FBI wants to ask and the and the Senate Ethics Committee wants to ask. Will he answer them?

The lists you need to know about. Who is "Today's Most Intriguing Person"? Who is on "The List That You Don't Want To Be On"? You will find out as our national conversation on Twitter, on the air starts right now.


SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Making the LIST right now on our national conversation, there is new video released just today of accused killer Scott Roeder. Now, we start with our breakthrough segment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Driver, raise your hands. Raise both hands, driver. Yes. Driver, with your left hand, take the keys out of the ignition!


SANCHEZ: This is video that's just in. That is the very first part of the video, as police followed Roeder on interstate 35 in northeast Kansas. Here's the background of the story. You ready?

Witnesses told police they had just watched Roeder walk into their church, hold a gun to Dr. George Tiller's head and pull the trigger and killed him in cold blood right there with everyone watching. It was a mess.

Dr. Tiller was a well-known abortion provider who performed rare late-term abortion procedures and explained that he did so in only specific cases, where the woman's health, he said, was in jeopardy.

But Roeder says the doctor needed to be killed to prevent future abortions, so he killed him, according to his admission and according to police. Here is the rest of the capture shown for the first time today in court.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the keys! (INAUDIBLE) I'm going to bring him back to you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, bring him back to me. I will cuff him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Driver, with your left hand, open the door from the outside. Driver, step out of the vehicle and face away from me. Move slowly. Driver, stop. Where's the gun?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Driver, with your left hand, move your shirt out of our pants. With your left hand, grab your shirt behind the car and lift up your pants. Lift up your shirt.

All right. Driver, step backwards. Keep walking backwards. Driver, stop. Get down on your knees. Keep your hands up. Get down on your knees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Just have a seat there and just (INAUDIBLE) lay back.


SANCHEZ: That was the video that so many have wanted to see. Prosecutors just aired that video, by the way, there in court.

Here is what is interesting. Roeder admits that he killed the doctor, making many wonder exactly what his defense is going to be?. It is the prosecution's turn right now, and we are going to continue to follow this. Obviously, if there's any more developments like that video we found just before we were able to go on air, we will bring it to you.

And this: Has President Obama ripped a page from the GOP playbook? You know, it is like he is saying, how do you like me now? What exactly is he doing? I am going to tell you.

And then you are not going to believe what happened to that dog. I mean, you are simply not going to believe this. Hint: Our competitor spent almost an hour talking about that dog. That is ahead.

And you say what? You want some Yellin? You want some Yellin? She is coming up.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back.

Let me try and catch you up with what we have got going on now.

First of all, let's go Rick's List. This is where I tell you exactly what is happening with relevant people who are following the news. And we think that they have something to do with the news.

So, let's go first to Haiti. You know, one of the things we have not talked about, because we have been so busy with all the rescues is, what about the kids in Haiti? What about the schools? Are they even going to be able to go back to school?

Well, here, this is news. "Will continue counting schools all week. Absolutely shocking blow has been dealt to the educational system there." Again, that is coming in from Fireside. That is one of the folks that we have been following there in Haiti.

Also, this. This is from the House Democrats. And you know we are about to get into a lot of politics here in just a little bit. "Emergency aid to American survivors of the Haiti earthquake to be considered later today in the House." So, there's emergency aid from the U.S. apparently being considered by our elected officials. And as soon as that thing is done, we will let you know the final outcome is.

Meanwhile, I want you to watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Headache. I was dripping blood everywhere. The pain was tremendous.


SANCHEZ: You betcha. An 18-year-old honor student says that Pittsburgh police did that to him. Did you see that picture? I mean, did you see what his face looked like? They thought he had a gun, but reported that they only found a soda bottle on him. Look at that. That is ahead.

Up next: President Obama makes another populist move, one that a lot of Republicans have tried before. Jessica Yellin going to be yelling. She is around the corner. So are we. This is the LIST. You're watching it we are scrolling on, folks.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez, and this is the list.

When was the last time you heard a president of the United States say, you know what, if I'm not reelected, I'm OK with that; I would be happy to be a one-term president.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, I would say that the one thing that I'm clear about is that I would rather be a really good one-term president than a mediocre two-term president.


SANCHEZ: Jessica Yellin is going to be joining me now.

I got to tell you, Jessica, in one breath, he is telling us polls and elections be damned. I will be OK being a one-term president. But, at the same time, he's also rolling out this crowd-pleasing budget freeze that sounds to many like the opening shot of the elections next November. Are his critics being too harsh when they point that out?

JESSICA YELLIN, NBC CORRESPONDENT: You are accusing him of being politically expedient, Rick? Shocking.

SANCHEZ: Well, he is a politician, after all.

YELLIN: No, he's going to be different, remember? He promised to be different.

Sure, there is plenty of political expediency here at play, and there's also some actual strategy and thought here. And, so, you are going to see a heavy debate on this one.

The president, as you know, needs to show that he has some fiscal restraint, because he is being accused of explosive spending in his first year. So, what their argument is by restraining their own budget to some extent, they can then say, we have felt the pain at home, we have made our own cuts. Now it is time for you members of Congress to make some cuts and even for you folks to be willing to let us cut -- make changes to Medicare, Medicaid, and be OK with that.

So, there's a sort of culture of restraint they are trying to enforce here. But the other thing is, it sets up a fight with the liberals, which could be helpful for the president, because liberals are going to scream if this cuts social services, and it makes him look like he is being tough on his left's flank, which could help him politically and have a big, big political fight coming up.

SANCHEZ: You know what his problem -- you know what? We talked about this yesterday. It is the perception from many Americans that the whole -- his Wall Street ties are -- run maybe a little too -- let me show you a poll. Let me show you something, all right? Look at this. Let me read what it says here. I want to get the numbers right.

Americans are asked, Jessica, has Obama paid more attention to financial institutions or, B, the middle class? Sixty percent of Americans say he has paid more attention to financial institutions, while 28 percent say that he has paid attention to the middle class.

This guy ran as a populist. That is not a good poll for a guy who ran as a populist? Or am I wrong?

YELLIN: No, no, that hit got them in the gut in the White House. That is not a number they want to see.

And it's -- look, it's pretty simple, Rick. At this point, jobs, jobs, jobs is what matters. And they have been talking health care.

From -- it feels funny to be saying this on air, because it's not the viewers who need to hear this. It is the folks here in Washington who need to hear this. When we are out there talking to people, what they want is more help getting a job, more help fighting the bank that is trying to foreclose on their house even though they could afford some kind of payment.


YELLIN: And, instead, they have been hearing about all about health care, which will bend the cost curve down the road.

If you don't have a job and you don't have health care, which is your number-one concern?

SANCHEZ: Yes. But, to be fair, as well, to be fair, a lot of the reason that health care became a major issue was -- and my number may not be exactly right, but it was something like $357 million that was spent by many in the health care industry to make sure Americans thought this was the most important and worst thing that could happen to you, when, in fact, they should have been pointing their finger at Wall Street and saying look what they are doing to you over there.

YELLIN: Right.

Well, that is part of the same problem, which is, these were the smartest guys in the room saying, what really matters in the budget is the health care curve over time. We are going bend that cost curve. People are a lot more angry at banks right now than they are at insurance industry, aren't they, at the health insurance industry?

And the problem is maybe they could have had the same health care fight without this much damage if they were at the same time looking like they were being really hard on the banks. (CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: That makes sense. You know what? What you have just said makes sense.

YELLIN: Is that validation?

SANCHEZ: You did.


SANCHEZ: Stop that. My wife does that to me.

That's a great point.

Let me ask you something else. What does the president -- you know what? I want to skip that question. I want to talk about something else.


SANCHEZ: I want to talk about this character John Ensign. I'm going to turn a corner with this. You know about John Ensign, under investigation now by the Justice Department. The FBI wants to question him. I got a chance to question him just a little -- I guess it was about a week and-a-half, two weeks ago, and it was interesting, because he would not answer any of my questions, which made me wonder, why is this guy here?

Regardless, let me set it up with this. Take a look at this.



SANCHEZ (voice-over): Senator Ensign, you see, is embroiled in a scandal that involves much more than sex and cheating. He's admitted he had an affair with his best friend's wife. That's Cynthia Hampton, his campaign treasurer, who just happened to be the wife of his Senate staffer Doug Hampton, the tall guy in the picture.


SANCHEZ: All right, a fair aside. And I was just talking to Ali about this a little while ago. I don't know if you heard me. And I said the affair is noteworthy, but it's not necessarily newsworthy. It's one of those things that is highly personal.

What is really newsworthy is, were there any alleged payoffs to the Hamptons? We have heard of them, as we have heard of perhaps deals he did with Senate lobbyists and the possibility that he may have violated or helped Hampton violate the Senate ban on lobbying.

Now we hear the FBI is looking into just the Senate Ethics Committee is also going to be looking into this. How much trouble is this guy in? YELLIN: Well, it is not a ideal situation to be in when you have both of these entities investigating. And there's going to be some fallout from this.

SANCHEZ: Fallout for him in particular? I got to tell you, Tom Coburn is a straight-up guy. If you read what has been written recently by folks who I consider to be real good writers who have dug into this, they say Coburn took him aside and told him, stop this now. Break up with that woman. Go back. Apologize to your wife. Fix your situation.

According to Coburn, himself, he didn't do that. He didn't listen. So, this isn't -- I think -- is this something -- let me ask the question this way. Is this something where Republicans are going to be able to say, look, he really has not acted like one of us?

YELLIN: Well, that is the political problem for him, Rick, aside from the investigations. If this is a party that values the way we -- the culture of family and morality...

SANCHEZ: Which most of them do.

YELLIN: ... it is a problem. And it's the trend. There are so many Republicans over the recent years who have had the same problem. It becomes a political problem for the party if this investigation has leaks, if those leaks are damaging, if there is explosive material.

So, Ensign, I am sure, would love that investigation to be shut down. If there are two, he would love them both to be shut down. It is not going to happen. So, he's going to have to answer some questions...


SANCHEZ: Why do you think he decided on New Year's Day to come on my show?

YELLIN: I don't know, Rick. He wanted to talk to you.



YELLIN: He wanted to chat? He was lonely? People like to talk to you.


SANCHEZ: Thanks. You, too. Thanks, Jessica.

YELLIN: You know, it helps to just show that you are out there answering questions, even if there is not substance to the questions. PR crisis intervention 101 is look like you are talking. So, maybe it's crisis...

(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: But the questions he did not answer are now on the record.

YELLIN: Right.

SANCHEZ: Right. Thanks, Jessica.

YELLIN: Good to see you.

SANCHEZ: Let's do some tweets, if we possibly can. Rick's List we go.

Here is -- listen to this. This is from Ed Hornick. He is one of our guys and he tweeted this a little while ago. We think it is news. We wanted to share it with you.

"Influential economic minds, including Paul Krugman, are lashing out at Obama's planned discretionary spending freeze plan."

Now, interestingly enough, you will get -- the president, you will note, will likely get more criticism today from the left for this decision than he will from the right. I mean, we will try and keep score as best we can.

Look, Dana Bash is also tweeting. She just tweeted, too, this. "Harry Reid just said, there is no rush on health care. Translation: We don't know how to pass it yet." Cut to the chase, Dana. Way to go.


SANCHEZ: And, you know, but I understand that Dana has just started Twittering recently, so she is doing good.

Also, this. Need more proof that texting while driving is a flat-out dumb idea? Bam. You saw it. Here is the proof. And that is just one reason why we are starting today. There is a new crackdown that we need to tell you about. I will tell you all about it.

Also, can you guess who this person is? He is one of the our intriguing persons of the day. Here is a hint, not a fan of the president's stimulus plan. So, that is why he is there. He is intriguing. We are a list, and we will put them together when we come back. Stay there.


SANCHEZ: He is a critic of the stimulus plan, no fan of the president and very much respected by his peers. Time for most intriguing.

In 2006, he worked with then Senator Barack Obama on a Web site to reveal how every federal dollar is spent. Just last month, he authored a report with Senator John McCain to identify 100 stimulus projects they deem wasteful. The Oklahoma senator is also known to come down hard on a certain Nevada senator who cheated on his wife. He literally tried to set him straight. It did not work. One of "Today's Most Intriguing Persons of the Day," Senator Tom Coburn, who says this about the stimulus plan.


SEN. TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: The number-one priority of where we ought to be spending that create jobs. Where is number two? Where is number three? Where is number four? We did not do that. We took a tennis racquet and shot it out of the park and said, here's all this money.


SANCHEZ: Tom Coburn, one of today's most intriguing.

Question for you: Was this guy a one-man arsenal? Police found some scary weapons, including a grenade launcher, in his hotel room, and they want to know what he had in mind. That story is coming up.

Also, going, going, gone. That is the fear in San Antonio, where several houses are on the brink of falling into a sinkhole. Nobody seems to be able to stop this or figure it out.

We are back in two minutes. You're watching the LIST. Did I tell you, by the way, that you can join our national conversation whenever you visit Atlanta? All you got to do is call this number and you can just us here in studio, 1-877-4CNN-TOUR.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back to RICK'S LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Do you remember when driving while talking on the cell phone was a big -- do you remember, Brooke, when that was a big deal?



SANCHEZ: No. It was a long time ago. You are just a baby.

Well, listen, if you thought that dangerous, if you thought that was a big deal...


SANCHEZ: ... take a look at "Fotos."

SANCHEZ: You can call this guy the poster child for what not to do behind the wheel, no texting while driving. The bus driver's momentary distraction led to this smashup you're about to see.

Clearly, the Transportation Department had this wreck in mind when it issued today's sweeping new ruling. Bus drivers, truckers, no texting while driving. You need to talk, reconnect your CB radio. You remember? Breaker, breaker, good buddy, we got us a convoy.

BALDWIN: You do that well, friend.

SANCHEZ: Thank you.

San Antonio now. Homeowners there have some of -- a sinking feeling these days. Those cracks and crevasses that you're looking at, that used to be a hill. Ain't a hill anymore. Those houses, people used to live in them. Now they watch with dread.

Can you imagine living there and wondering if your home is going to be sliding into that pit?


SANCHEZ: You know how much time they had to collect their belongings? Fifteen minutes. What do you grab, your kids' pictures or your flat-screen TV? Don't answer that. Don't answer that.


SANCHEZ: Los Angeles, remember this dog, you know, the one strapped by -- stranded, I should say, by floodwaters and then soaking up an hour of news time on our competition? Well, four days after getting airlifted out of the danger, this pooch is still sitting at the L.A. County shelter.

BALDWIN: Oh, no. He hasn't been claimed?

SANCHEZ: He hasn't been claimed. He was a stray. He didn't belong to anybody. No owner has claimed him, has no tags, has no identity chip. He is a stray.

By the way, he also bit the hand that tried to save him. Ironic.

BALDWIN: Ironic.



SANCHEZ: All righty, this 18-year-old honor student says police beat him while he was walking down a street late on a Saturday night. This whole thing was so confusing that he said he thought that he was being kidnapped at the time. That story is ahead.

Also up next, a bombshell discovery by police -- a man found walking around a convenience store with an assault rifle, and they say that there were plenty more where that came from. THE LIST continues.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. As you know, I have two "RICK'S LISTS," really, at least two twitter lists, the one with relevant folks and one with regular folks. Let's go to the one with the regular folks, Robert, because I think this is interesting. Go to one in the middle. "I'm so confused. Why you would text a message when you could talk to someone live? Texting makes no sense whatsoever." You know, he makes a good point.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is what the kids are doing these days, Rick.

SANCHEZ: I ask my kids that all of the time. Why are you texting. You have a phone in your hand, why don't you call them?

BALDWIN: I don't know. What do you tell them?

SANCHEZ: We are old. We don't get it.

Police respond to a call. It's a guy acting bizarre, and turns out he is packing an assault rifle. That's big, but, man, wait till you find out what else they found when they searched the guy's hotel room. What they found is not big, it's huge and frightening. And trust me, you are glad this guy is off of the streets.

Here is Brooke Baldwin. She has been digging around on the this story, trying to find out who is this guy, what's going on?

BALDWIN: So there are a couple of layers that you alluded to there. But I want to first say, I got on the phone with the FBI today, and they said they do not think he is a terrorist despite what I am about to tell you.

Take a look at this guy. This is the mug shot, 43-year-old Lloyd Woodson. I'll paint a picture for you. Yesterday at 4:00 a.m., he is in a convenience order, to quote the store clerk, "suspicious." So he calls the police and Woodson just runs out into the woods, police run after him and tackle him and spray pepper spray.

What they find on him, they find out he is wearing this bulletproof vest and he is carrying an assault rifle in his military coat. Move on. That is not all we can tell you about Woodson today. You will see in a moment. The New York crew hustled this back to us, because he is from arraignment an hour or so in New Jersey.

He was staying in a nearby hotel, and it is what police found there that is raising a lot of questions. So we made a list for you. Take a look at the arsenal, that a lot of people are using, an arsenal of high-powered weapons stashed back into the room -- two assault rifles -- two assault rifles and grenade launcher.

Next one is a police scanner. We also have another bulletproof vest, a map of a U.S. military compound, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, and a Middle Eastern-style head dress.

So we are wondering what is up with this guy? Woodson is in jail for unlawful possession of weapons, possession of prohibited weapons, obstruction of justice, resisting arrest. The FBI is also saying that Woodson could face federal gun charges. They are still investigating. No terrorist tie related just yet. But I did when I talked to the FBI and I want to get this on the record for all of our viewers -- I have a statement from the FBI, and they said "Presently, there does not appear to be a link to terrorism. Woodson does not appear to be linked to any terror groups or known terrorist groups nor a specific terrorist plot."

SANCHEZ: This is interesting. Did They just pick this guy out of the blue when they stopped?

BALDWIN: No, remember, he was in a convenient store acting suspicious.

SANCHEZ: That's it, though. It's now like they were tailing him?

BALDWIN: No. He was staying in the area, and that is one of the questions -- was this room a sign that he was there to stay or just moving through town. His last known address is in Virginia. He was in and out of the Navy he was a deserter.

SANCHEZ: He was, so he has a military background?

BALDWIN: Yes, but so far that is all we are able to glean.

SANCHEZ: You can't make a lot of the -- what did you say, the head dress?

BALDWIN: Middle Eastern head dress.

SANCHEZ: Some kind of Middle Eastern head dress. I suppose that can be used as an investigative tool if they want to look into it, but you can't make too much out of it either, because...

BALDWIN: It is raising questions, they are still investigating. It is still a state investigation for now, but the FBI is saying no terrorist ties, but it could have federal charges, possibly.

SANCHEZ: I will tell you this, keep an eye on this guy. Not you, I mean the police? I mean, this is something...

BALDWIN: We will follow up if the FBI steps back into the case.

SANCHEZ: Well, it is curious, or as Yogi Berra would say, curiouser and curiouser.

BALDWIN: That it is.

SANCHEZ: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thanks, Rick.

SANCHEZ: All right, here we go, the company...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hired a plumber and the plumber put in garbage pipes that leaked, I would not put that plumber on probation, I would never hire that plumber again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We punished them as far as we could. They're back.


SANCHEZ: Well, a company gets another grab at the tax dollars. It did not go so well the first time they got a bunch of tax dollars. Is it going to be any better now that the company is part of the stimulus program? Well, that is what we're looking into.

We're also looking into this. Look at that face. That's what three police officers are accused of doing to this young man. They say they thought he had a gun, thought he had a gun. He and his mother join me next. Stay there.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez, and this is "RICK'S LIST."

As you probably know, because I told you a lot of this yesterday, we here at CNN have made a commitment. One of the commitments we have made this week is to be your watchdog, literally. We are taking apart the stimulus package. We think it is an important job for us.

We are committed to trying to let you know if your money is being spent well or not being spent well. Here is an example. Is giving millions of dollars to a company indicted for ripping off taxpayers really the best way to use our money? Here is CNN's Drew Griffin from our special investigations unit.


DREW GRIFFIN: As a money pit, the never-ending big dig project in Boston is notorious -- $22 billion and still counting to bury the interstate under downtown. It has been plagued by problems, leaks, cracks, mostly as a result of shoddy construction.

One company was indicted for supplying the big dig with below grade concrete that had been doctored to make it look OK.

GRIFFIN (on camera): The name of the company is Aggregate Industries, and two years ago the state of Massachusetts announced this big fraud settlement against the company, basically saying that for years Aggregate was supplying defective concrete to the big dig project, concrete that was so bad that it led to cracking, leaking, and other big defects.

So which company do you think is now getting your stimulus money here in Massachusetts? Aggregate Industries. We are going to ask the highway department why.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Luisa Paiewonsky is the highway administrator. GRIFFIN (on camera): If I hired a plumber, and the plumber put in garbage pipes that leaked, I would not put the plumber on probation, I would never hire the plumber again.

LUISA PAIEWONSKY, MASSACHUSETTS DOT: Well, if you are asking me did we have a visceral reaction, yes. If I were the sheriff, I would say --

GRIFFIN: But you are the commissioner of public transportation.

PAIEWONSKY: I have to follow the law. I am a public official and I have to go as far as the law will allow me to go. We punished them as far as we could. They're back.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Back with the low bid on two jobs in Massachusetts' cut of the federal stimulus bill. And after paying a $50 million fine and agreeing to be overseen by a federal monitor, its plea bargain with the government allowed Aggregate to come back for more federal work.

Aggregate hired Nancy Sterling to help with its public negotiations.

NANCY STERLING, AGGREGATE INDUSTRIES SPOKESPERSON: The company was hit extremely seriously. It is a very different company than it was prior to the big dig. There are new managers and owners and a whole new ethics compliance policy in place. We paid the fine, and part of the reason we agreed to settle was so we could continue to do work for the government.

GRIFFIN: It is right there in the agreement worked out by the U.S. attorney, the Massachusetts attorney general, and the federal department of transportation -- no cutoff of from government contracts for Aggregate.

There was nothing the Massachusetts' department of transportation could do legally, a spokesperson says, to prevent the contractor from coming back to bid on new contracts. Conviction or not, Aggregate is the lowest bidder and therefore the winner of some $10 million to repave some roads.

Drew Griffin, CNN, Boston.


SANCHEZ: By the way, Aggregate says that the two paving jobs are going the cost about $10 million and create jobs for 113 people, and according to the New England center for investigative reporting 13 of the 21 companies awarded stimulus projects in Massachusetts last year had a history of criminal problems. Aggregate was one of them.

You can track you stimulus projects on We will have it there for you.

Meanwhile, we are continuing to get some information from folks as we check our tweets and we'll continue to bring you more information for the stories coming your way.

Did you hear the story about a young man who was beaten by police, or at least the police are accused of that? There he is right now. I have asked him to come in, so I can answer some of the questions. He is going to be joined by his mother as well and his lawyer.

It is an interesting case. Police apparently thought that he had a gun on him. But he didn't. That is the story. Stay right there. I will be right back.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is THE LIST. And if you haven't checked us out yet, we are on everyday from 3:00 to 5:00 and you can go to my blog if you want to see what the show is all about.

I want you to look at that picture right there. Tough to look at it. That young man and his mother want you to look at that picture. His eye was swollen shut. Imagine this -- your cheeks are bruised, your head is pounded, your hair is ripped out of you scalp. Sounds crazy, doesn't it?

That young man is Jordan Miles. He turned 18 the day before being allegedly beaten by Pittsburgh police, so he was a juvi at the time when he was allegedly beaten by the police. Joining me right now is Jordan Miles, his mother is there to his left on your screen. Her name is Terez. His attorney is Mr. Kerrington Lewis. My thanks to all of you for being with us.



SANCHEZ: Let me start with you, young man. Take me through the story. Where were you going and what happened? Just tell me your story.

JORDAN MILES, ALLEGES POLICE BRUTALITY: I was on my way to my grandma's house. I was leaving from my mother's house.

SANCHEZ: What happened?

JORDAN MILES: I was walking down the steps, and I noticed a white car at the top of the street. I didn't give it any attention. As I continued to walk, I got four about houses up, and it came very fast down the street and swerved in front of me and almost pushing me onto the sidewalk.

And three Caucasian males jumped out demanding where is your gun? Where is your drugs? And where is your money? So, I thought I was going to get robbed, I and turned around to my mom's house and started running. And I took about three or four paces and slipped on the ice. And from there, they were able to jump on me and start brutalizing me. SANCHEZ: That is interesting, because from what your story, from the way you tell the story, it sounds to me like you didn't know they were police officers, right?

JORDAN MILES: I didn't know. They never identified themselves.

SANCHEZ: So usually when police officers do that, they have either jackets on, blue jackets like long jackets that say "Police" on them, or they're wearing a badge around their neck that says "Police." did you not see any of that around them?

JORDAN MILES: They didn't -- they was in plain clothes, and they never showed me a badge or stated that they...

SANCHEZ: Well, what time did you realize they were police?

JORDAN MILES: After the beating occurred and they called for a backup. They were conversating with the uniformed police officers, and at that time I realized that they were police officers.

SANCHEZ: So this was well after you had already been beaten. Did you at any time ask or were you ever told why you were being stopped or why you were allegedly being beaten by the cops?

JORDAN MILES: They stated that I had a gun and they asked me where it was during the beating. And I was saying I never had anything to begin with.

SANCHEZ: Did you?

JORDAN MILES: Excuse me?

SANCHEZ: Did you have a gun?


SANCHEZ: Have you ever had a gun?


SANCHEZ: Are you involved in any kind of criminal activity?


SANCHEZ: Do you have any reason to believe that you were doing something that would make you suspicious to the police?


SANCHEZ: It sounds like you're a good kid. Mom, help me out. I'm kind of baffled to why the police would give us this statement. Here's what they're saying to us, "We have not statement to issue at this time due to the ongoing complete investigation by the office of municipal investigations."

You'd think they'd come forward and say something, right? TEREZ MILES: Yes, I'm curious to know why they took note of my son that night, why they felt the need to, you know, do what they did to him.

SANCHEZ: Look at this picture. Roger, put that picture up one more time of the beating. That's him in the hospital or at home? What is that? We're looking at a picture, he's in a bed, and seems to have a neck brace on.

TEREZ MILES: That was in the hospital.

SANCHEZ: That was in the hospital.

Go to the other one, the tight shot where we see a close shot of his face. That's a pretty severe beating. How long after the alleged beating was this picture taken?

TEREZ MILES: That was taken about 22 to 24 hours later. We were in the hospital at the time.

SANCHEZ: Are most of the injuries gone now? How long ago has it been since this happened?

TEREZ MILES: It happened on -- the beating happened on January 12th.

JORDAN MILES: It's just been a couple weeks?


SANCHEZ: Hey, Jordan?


SANCHEZ: Put Jordan on camera again real quick. Do you have anything left? Go tight on Jordan, if we can. I wanted to see if we can see if Jordan has any of the markings. I'm told -- there you go. I'm told that one of your eyes is still messed up. Is that right?


SANCHEZ: Show me, which one? Oh, yes. Turn toward your lawyer -- that one right there, right?


SANCHEZ: Can you see out of it?


SANCHEZ: Counselor, is there anything that you can put together for us here to make us understand exactly what was going on here. I imagine you've reached out to somebody to try to get some answers. What have they said?

LEWIS: We've asked the FBI to investigate this matter. SANCHEZ: As what? What would the FBI do?

LEWIS: Well, the FBI is going to look into this as the abuse and excessive force used against Jordan. Jordan is an honors student. He attends a special school. He's -- in terms of talent, he plays the viola, he's going to Penn State next year as a freshman.

He's never been in any trouble in his life. The police were undercover. You talked about badges, but this was a brutally cold night, and Jordan was four, five houses from his mother's house heading to his grandmother's.

And when these cops, which he didn't know were cops, exited the truck or the SUV, they were dressed in undercover clothes with no badges. And in that neighborhood where he lives, it's a rough neighborhood. There are drive-by shootings.

SANCHEZ: So what do you think they thought?

LEWIS: Well, he was afraid. You know, he was afraid he was going to be hurt.

SANCHEZ: Jordan what do you think the police thought you were?

JORDAN MILES: I thought they thought that I was a gang member or maybe a thug.

SANCHEZ: Did you ever ask them -- at any point, did you ever say to them, why did you do this to me? And what did they say?

LEWIS: No, he never said that. He never asked them why they were doing it to him. This man -- this boy was beaten by three narcotic undercover guys. They were just on a proactive sweep. In other words, they were going around the neighborhood looking for anybody that might be involved in narcotics.

SANCHEZ: Final question, then -- I get that, counselor. And I think we're starting to get a pretty good idea of what, perhaps, happened here, if it was indeed a mistake, which is not our place to say. Mom, what do you want?

TEREZ MILES: I feel like those police officers should be fired for what they did to my son so that it will never happen -- they won't be able to do it again to anyone else's child.

SANCHEZ: Jordan, you agree?


SANCHEZ: My thanks to all three of you. Interesting information, hell of a story, I'm telling you. I think it's got a lot of folks watching this all over the country shaking their heads and wondering how stuff like this -- how stuff like this keeps happening in this country. Once again, thanks again. We'll see you. We'll be in contact.

JORDAN MILES: Thank you.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He indicated that he in fact had an argument with his father, that that argument became physical. He grabbed his father around the neck, and at some point the father collapsed to the floor.


SANCHEZ: Nancy Kerrigan -- remember Nancy Kerrigan? That's her brother. He's at the center of a family tragedy, a real tragedy here, putting the Olympian at the center of another possible headline, like the last thing she needs.

Also, Himalayan glaciers will disappear in 25 years. What? Is that true? Who said that? That's what we'll ask.

Speaking of disappearances, a guy whose comments some people wish would disappear from the national spotlight. They're on our list as well, "The List You Don't Want To Be On", next.