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Nancy Grace
Haleigh`s Dad`s Jailhouse Interview
Aired January 27, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Satsuma, Florida. A 5- year-old girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone. Daddy comes home from the night shift to find not a trace of little Haleigh. Last person to see her alive, new stepmother, 18-year-old Misty Croslin, who takes to the airwaves to claim she`s innocent. But even in that one brief interview, Croslin can`t keep her story straight, including a 180 on a failed lie detector, claiming she passed, then admitting on TV she failed.
Bombshell tonight. After Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings, and baby- sitter-turned-stepmother Misty Croslin both handcuffed, arrested and booked, Haleigh`s dad breaks his silence tonight from behind bars. Tonight, we get the jailhouse tapes of how exactly he explains himself. What -- what -- if anything, do these felony arrests mean in the search for 5-year-old Haleigh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you do for a living, ma`am?
MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S BABY-SITTER: Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry?
CROSLIN: Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have released arrest reports detailing how Haleigh`s former stepmom, Misty Croslin, allegedly sold over $2,500 worth of prescription drugs to an undercover cop who was wearing a wire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you have people who are on drugs, they really don`t pay attention. They are negligent.
CROSLIN: I don`t know where she is.
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: It`s hard to believe that she don`t know more, but it`s also hard to believe that if she did know more, she ain`t already talked, you know, especially if they got her locked up like they got me, man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police allege pills were sold during six separate transactions, all of those sales allegedly involving Misty Croslin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old are you?
CROSLIN: Just turned 18.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also allegedly at some of the sales, Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings.
CUMMINGS: I`ve been slandered into a (INAUDIBLE) I took good care of my kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cummings is charged with three counts of drug trafficking.
CUMMINGS: This is a setback in my life that`ll -- when I come out, will remind me, you know, what I should be doing and not what I was doing, or whatever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Misty Croslin, his former wife, is charged with six counts of drug trafficking.
CROSLIN: He just jumped in and took everything I had and said he was going to shoot me!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is afraid. She`s giving as many details as she possibly can in a short period of time. She did not do that the night Haleigh went missing.
911 OPERATOR: Does the door look like it was pried open?
CROSLIN: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Does it look like you had some sort of -- someone try to enter into your house?
CROSLIN: Hold on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) sit down across the table from her, look her in the eye and say, You`re not going anywhere for a long time anyway. You want to tell us what you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. After Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings, and the baby-sitter-turned-stepmother Misty Croslin both handcuffed, arrested and booked, Haleigh`s father breaks his silence from behind bars. And tonight, we get our hands on the jailhouse tapes, how he exactly explains himself. What, if anything, do these felony arrests mean in the search for his 5-year-old little girl, Haleigh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Cummings, you`ve been charged with four counts of trafficking in hydrocodone out of Putnam County...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arrest reports just released show that in just a month`s time, Haleigh`s former stepmom/baby-sitter, Misty Croslin, allegedly sold over 300 prescription pills to an undercover cop.
CROSLIN: Some black guy just jumped in my car and stole my whole (ph) purse and threw me out the car and had a gun and said he was going to shoot me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With these highly addictive substances, we`ve seen people commit crazy crimes against their own family members.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought all along that she had something to do with it.
CUMMINGS: I said, What are you doing up at this time? She said, The back door`s wide open and your daughter`s gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who was with her -- the last person with her? She was.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ronald, you don`t think she could have just wandered off?
CUMMINGS: No! There is no way! My daughter`s afraid of the dark!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s afraid of the dark.
GRACE: I think she`s high as a kite. Her mind is fried. That little girl, that baby didn`t have a chance.
CROSLIN: You know, I was really exhausted that day, you know, really exhausted. And when I lay down, I guess, you know, I just -- I was out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meanwhile, Haleigh`s grandmother, Teresa Neves, reportedly says her views of Croslin have changed, saying Croslin is definitely not who Neves thought she was.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We would love to have a break in this case, and we really would not care who it implicates as long as it brings Haleigh back to us.
CUMMINGS: How (EXPLETIVE DELETED) could you let my daughter get stole (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
I don`t care if they get me with unjustifiable homicide. I don`t care. If I find out what happened to my young`un, it doesn`t matter to me. It`ll be -- it`ll be worth life without parole or the death penalty or whatever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have they asked you about Haleigh yet?
CUMMINGS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What -- what -- when was that?
CUMMINGS: Wednesday, right after they captured me, or apprehended me, or whatever they want to call it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What did they -- what happened?
CUMMINGS: Nothing. They just told me that their main focus was not on putting me in jail but finding Haleigh. They didn`t really question me, man. They already know that I don`t know nothing about Haleigh`s disappearance...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Right.
CUMMINGS: ... or otherwise I would have already been in DOC.
I mean, the 911 call -- I haven`t changed my mind about the 911 call since the minute it was made.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
CUMMINGS: That still remains that it don`t matter, 40, 50 years from now, if I find out whoever done it before they do, you know, whatever might be done, whether they took Haleigh because they lost a child or whatever the case might be, you know. Yes, if I find out who or however, there`s two people, three people, whatever did it, whatever took my daughter wherever, then when I find out, if I find out before the police, it`s going to be done for them, done dealing. I`ll have satisfaction knowing that I got the person who stole my daughter from me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have the money at this time to hire a lawyer?
CROSLIN: I have a lawyer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who`s your lawyer, please?
CROSLIN: Robert Fields (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you had a chance to contact Mr. Fields?
CROSLIN: I talked to him yesterday. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll give you an opportunity to speak with him. I`ll show (ph) at this point (INAUDIBLE) retaining Mr. Fields. If you`re unable to hire a lawyer on these charges and you need the assistance of the public defender, you can tell Judge Berger (ph) that when you`re brought before her or the circuit court in -- or Putnam County, and a public defender will be appointed. Do you have any questions about that?
CROSLIN: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, you can have a seat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Jailhouse tapes. We`ve got them. Ronald Cummings, Haleigh`s father, along with the stepmother, former baby-sitter, 18-year-old Misty Cummings -- let me tell you, people, they`re some of the hardest working people in America because according to this police report that I`ve got right here in my hands, they`re out selling dope 4:30 in the morning until nearly midnight at every gas station, convenience store, truck stop right there on the street, you name it.
To you, Marlaina Schiavo. What do we learn in Ronald Cummings`s jailhouse tapes?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: We learn that Ronald, even behind bars, facing a lot of jail time possibly, that he will still only talk about Haleigh. He says that to this moment, he has not changed his mind. If he finds the person that killed Haleigh, he will kill that person. He doesn`t care what kind of jail time he will face. He doesn`t care if it even offers up the death penalty. It`s worth it to him, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, let me ask you this, Marlaina. And I appreciate all that feeling, all that emotion he`s got about revenge. But why is he selling dope instead of out looking for his daughter? Can somebody tell me that?
SCHIAVO: Well, Ronald`s not going to tell you that. The only thing he said about this is that it is a, quote, "setback" in his life. He`s not talking about the drug charges. All he knows is that he may be facing a lot of prison time. He doesn`t call Misty anything but a friend/ex-wife and he doesn`t say anything about selling drugs with her.
GRACE: Well, he can start calling her his co-defendant.
Take a listen to more of the jailhouse tapes we have obtained. Ronald Cummings, as you know, along with three others, busted on felony drugs. And listen, I`ve been with Ronald Cummings from the get-go. He would come on the show repeatedly, answering your questions live. He volunteered for a polygraph. He did everything right in the search for his little girl, 5- year-old Haleigh Cummings. As you`ll recall, Haleigh taken from the home, according to the baby-sitter, in the middle of the night from the same room she`s in as they lay sleeping. Does the story stink? To high heaven.
Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what would you do? I mean...
CUMMINGS: With what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With that person?
CUMMINGS: Kill them! Same thing I said on the 911 call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Well, I just want to make sure...
CUMMINGS: I`m telling you, I ain`t changed my mind. Not a bit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what did they ask you about her, or what did they say to you, just that they -- I mean, is that all they said?
CUMMINGS: Yes. That`s it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So they haven`t questioned you or asked you if you found out anything from Misty or found out anything from anybody else or...
CUMMINGS: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did they...
CUMMINGS: They know I haven`t found out anything, Dana. They know I haven`t because they know that they`d be the first ones to know. I wouldn`t call them or nothing else, they would be notified probably by the news media or somebody, you know, reporting a homicide. So they already know that I haven`t found out anything. They don`t have to ask me a dumb question like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you`re saying that if you found out, you`d do what you think you need to do and they`d find out about that.
CUMMINGS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have they asked you about Haleigh yet?
CUMMINGS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What -- what -- when was that?
CUMMINGS: Wednesday, right after they captured me, or apprehended me, or whatever they want to call it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What did they -- what happened?
CUMMINGS: Nothing. They just told me that their main focus was not on putting me in jail but finding Haleigh. They didn`t really question me, man. They already know that I don`t know nothing about Haleigh`s disappearance...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Right.
CUMMINGS: ... or otherwise I would have already been in DOC.
I mean, the 911 call -- I haven`t changed my mind about the 911 call since the minute it was made.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
CUMMINGS: That still remains that it don`t matter, 40, 50 years from now, if I find out whoever done it before they do, you know, whatever might be done, whether they took Haleigh because they lost a child or whatever the case might be, you know. Yes, if I find out who or however, there`s two people, three people, whatever did it, whatever took my daughter wherever, then when I find out, if I find out before the police, it`s going to be done for them, done dealing. I`ll have satisfaction knowing that I got the person who stole my daughter from me.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911. Do you have an emergency?
CROSLIN: I need someone to -- what is this place called?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know.
CROSLIN: I just -- some -- some black...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s across...
(CROSSTALK)
CROSLIN: Some black guy just jumped in my car and stole my whole purse and threw me out the car and had a gun and said he was going to shoot me!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Where are you at right now?
CROSLIN: Go up to this road...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) let me just (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Take a deep breath for me, OK?
CROSLIN: My arm is all (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up!
911 OPERATOR: Where are you at now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) find out (INAUDIBLE)
CROSLIN: Hold on.
911 OPERATOR: Where did he go?
CROSLIN: I don`t know! He took off with all our stuff!
911 OPERATOR: Did he take your vehicle?
CROSLIN: He took -- no, he jumped in the car and grabbed my purse and my phone and everything!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Were you stopped in the car or...
CROSLIN: My -- this girl was getting out -- out of the car, and he just jumped in and took everything I had! And he said he was going to shoot me!
911 OPERATOR: Were you in the vehicle?
CROSLIN: Yes. And he (INAUDIBLE) he pulled me out. My friend started to go, and he pulled me out and I fell out the car while the car was going!
911 OPERATOR: Ma`am, you stay on the phone with me, OK?
CROSLIN: Oh, my God! My leg and my arm hurt so bad!
911 OPERATOR: Do you need an ambulance?
CROSLIN: Yes, I think so. Oh, my God!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unlock your door.
CROSLIN: (INAUDIBLE) Oh, God!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) door!
CROSLIN: My purse is ripped (INAUDIBLE) I can`t move it! I can`t move it! I can`t move it!
911 OPERATOR: OK, stay on the phone with me, OK?
CROSLIN: OK. Oh, my God!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CUMMINGS: It`s hard to believe that she don`t know more, but it`s also hard to believe that if she did no more, she ain`t already talked, you know, especially if they got her locked up like they got me, man, because this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) will drive you crazy. This place ain`t but the size of two sheets of plywood.
I want my family to know I love them, my girlfriend to know I love her, my kids to know I love them, Haleigh to know I`ll never give up on her, and that this is a setback in my life that`ll, when I come out, will remind me, you know, what I -- what I should be -- should be doing or not what I was doing or whatever -- whatever, you know, what I`m being accused of doing.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. I can`t help it. I got a soft spot for Ronald Cummings because I remember him when Haleigh first went missing. He was out, I think, in his front yard, crying and screaming, with his face down in the grass because he didn`t know what to do about his daughter, gone missing.
And maybe it`s because -- let me go to you, Art Harris. I mean, you know, I`ve tried a lot of cases and I`ve pled out thousands of dopers, the worst of the worst. There`s something about Ronald Cummings and what he`s saying from behind bars -- he still breaks my heart. Yes, I think he was selling dope with that Misty Croslin-Cummings. But still to me, he is still talking about Haleigh.
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Well, you know, and when I had dinner with him one night down there, Nancy, he was very, very angry, saying the same things now that he said then, that if he ever found whoever did it, he would unleash the revenge of a father...
GRACE: He would marry them? He would marry them if he ever found them? He`d marry them then divorce them? I mean, look, Art, there`s an obvious problem. She`s the last one to see Haleigh alive. Her story stinks. I can punch holes in it with a big pin from a thousand miles away, but yet he doesn`t see that. It just seems to me at some point, he would have grilled her.
HARRIS: Well, you know, I think he doubted her, Nancy, all along. Here in this interview, he says he doesn`t understand, how could she hang onto this information if she knew it? She`s locked up in this place. I talked to her family. She`s afraid. She`s lonely. And how could she hang onto this information so long? He doesn`t -- he doesn`t...
GRACE: Well, she`s really going to be lonely in a couple of years. Let`s unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss, family law attorney, New York, Renee Rockwell, veteran defense attorney, Atlanta, Georgia -- she defends -- one of her specialties are dope cases -- Doug Burns, former fed, defense attorney out of the New York jurisdiction. Welcome to all of you.
Sue Moss, weigh in.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Misty gets her purse stolen, she sounds devastated. She gets a kid stolen, she sounds sedated. Come on! Look at these facts! You know what? I really think that this is a drug case gone wrong. Either the kid overdosed, or maybe she sold the kid for some sort of a drug debt. The drugs, I think, are going to play a major role in solving this case.
GRACE: Liz, please rewind that video of Ronald Cummings. I mean, maybe it`s going to come back to bite me in the neck, but I do not believe this man had anything to do with his daughter`s disappearance. I do not believe it. What about it, Rockwell?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think he just got sucked in, Nancy, to this drug deal. I think these police officers hitting this dead end have absolutely set these kids up. I`m not saying set up in that they made...
GRACE: Wait. Put her up. Put her up. Renee, how long have you been practicing law? Just please try to answer the question.
ROCKWELL: OK. Thirty years, Nancy. But here`s what`s going on...
GRACE: And you`re still trying to argue that the cops set up a drug deal?
ROCKWELL: No, no, no. No, no. I`m not saying that they set these people...
GRACE: Don`t you ever get tired of that? Second verse, same as the first?
ROCKWELL: I`m not saying they set up some innocent people. What I`m saying is they have used this mechanism, and somebody is looking at extensive time, and they`re going to use this to get one of them to flip against the other.
GRACE: OK, Doug Burns, so what if they do? What`s wrong with that?
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I mean, it creates perfect leverage to get information about the disappearance. But by the same token. this woman may still refuse to cooperate. It`s hard to say, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s your relationship with Misty?
CUMMINGS: There really isn`t a relationship, you know, just, I guess, ex-wife-slash-friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. OK. And you have a girlfriend?
CUMMINGS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who`s that?
CUMMINGS: I`d rather not say. But yes, I do have a girlfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you do for a living, ma`am?
CROSLIN: Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry?
CROSLIN: Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you support yourself?
CROSLIN: My mom and my dad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old are you?
CROSLIN: Just turned 18.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The judge asked her, What do you do for a living, how do you support herself, she goes, "Nothing." Now we know.
Back to Art Harris, investigative journalist at Artharris.com. We are taking your calls live. Art, how did this whole thing get started?
HARRIS: Well, Nancy, undercover officers with Putnam County sheriff`s department heard Misty was dealing, that they could get drugs from her, and they called and asked if she could deliver. The first deal went down, actually three days before Christmas. Undercover cop called her and asked for, you know, oxycodone. She said she could get 41 to 45 pills. And he had $1,000, only wound up spending $750, shows up. She takes him -- actually, she -- she and Tommy climb into his car, which is wired for audio and video. And they first go to a bar called the Oasis, and she makes calls. Nothing happens. They then go to a McDonald`s parking lot, where her...
GRACE: Art, Art, Art...
HARRIS: ... her source calls and she...
GRACE: Art, Art, Art. I take the twins to McDonald`s and we all go to the top of the play station where Mommy gets stuck, and they go up and down the slide while I try to get down. And you`re telling me they`re doing a dope deal at a McDonald`s...
HARRIS: Well, yes. Well, that`s...
GRACE: ... while I`m inside in the play station?
HARRIS: That`s right. And she had to actually go across the street, though, to meet her connection, who got out of a -- she got into a pick-up truck, got back into the undercover cop`s car and handed it over. He was very pleased and said he would like to buy more.
GRACE: Who`s the connection. Is Donna Broch the connection?
HARRIS: No. At this point, it`s just -- it`s Misty being called by police. And she is now striking up a relationship with an undercover officer. Police are telling me they were shocked he was able to get inside and get close to Misty and just nobody ever suspected him.
GRACE: I mean, just...
HARRIS: Not Ronald...
GRACE: Let me just throw this to you, Renee, Miss "They`re all set up." If somebody came up to me and said, Hey, can you hook me up with some oxycodone, what do you think, Renee, would be my response?
ROCKWELL: Well, of course not, Nancy. But you`ve got a legitimate job. This is how this girl is making a living.
GRACE: That`s your defense, that this is her job? Did you say that? Did I hear that?
ROCKWELL: But Nancy, what I`m telling you is this is not about a drug case. This is about...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who told you that? I mean, was it somebody you.
RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I don`t know who it was.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It wasn`t any of the detectives you knew?
CUMMINGS: No.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They haven`t -- but they haven`t come to you and said, OK, Ron, let`s sit down and talk about what you heard from Misty or what you heard from anybody else outside. Now that you`re in jail, we got you here, you know, you might as well tell us everything you know.
CUMMINGS: Nope.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They haven`t done that.
CUMMINGS: No, because they already know that. They all know. If I found before them, they`ll know. I mean they won`t have to question me. They know that. Otherwise, I`m sure they would have already sat me down and questioned me hour upon hour upon hour, but they already know the answers does not lie with me and the answer to the question that you`re asking me is yes. It`ll be justifiable homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And you`re mad.
CUMMINGS: Yes, I mean, I don`t care. I don`t care if they get me with unjustifiable homicide. I don`t care. If I find out what happened to my young, it doesn`t matter to me. It`ll be worth life without parole or the death penalty or whatever.
I mean the 911 call, I haven`t changed my mind about the 911 call since the minute it was made.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: OK.
CUMMINGS: That still remains. That it don`t matter 40, 50 years from now, if I find whoever done it before they do, you know, whatever might be done whether they took Haleigh because they lost a child or whatever the case might be, you know -- yes. If I find out who or however, there`s two people, three people, whatever did it, whatever took my daughter wherever.
When I find out, if I found out before the police, it`s going be done for them. Done dealing. I`ll have satisfaction knowing that I got the person who stole my daughter from me.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And what would you do? I mean.
CUMMINGS: With what?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: With that person?
CUMMINGS: Kill them. Same thing I said on the 911 call.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Well, I just want to make sure.
CUMMINGS: I`m telling you, I ain`t changed my mind, not a bit.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Well, what did they ask you about her? What did they say to you? I mean is that all they said?
CUMMINGS: Yes. That`s it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So they haven`t questioned you or asked you if you found out anything from Misty? Or found about anything from anybody else?
CUMMINGS: No. They know I haven`t found out anything. They know I haven`t because they know that they`d be the first one to know. I wouldn`t call them or nothing else, they would be notified probably by the news media or somebody, you know, reporting a homicide so they already know that I haven`t found out about anything.
So they don`t have to ask me a dumb question like that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Because you`re saying if you found out, you`d do what you think you need to do and they would find out about that.
CUMMINGS: Yes.
It`s hard to believe that she don`t know more but it`s also hard to believe that if she did know more she ain`t already talked, you know? Especially if they`ve got her locked up like they me, man, because this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) will drive you crazy. This place ain`t but the size of two sheets of plywood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: OK. We`re taking your calls live but first to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. As you all must know by now, unless you`ve been living under a rock, Marc Klaas is a crime victim. His daughter, beautiful Polly, was taken from the home and she was murdered. And he has been a victims` right advocate since that time.
OK, Marc, this is an extreme turn of events where you`ve got one of the chief suspects -- in my mind -- Misty Croslin, and the father who`s clearly suffering over the loss of his daughter selling dope together. Thoughts?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I believe that the truth may lie somewhere in the recesses of Misty`s drug- addled brain and any hope of retrieving that information probably rests on her ability to be detoxed and to be rehabilitated from this horrible drug habit that she seems to be the victim of.
Ron, on the other hand, I think continues to make some terrible choices. He decided to go with Misty on these drug busts, announcing fatalistic about the fact that he may spend a considerable amount of time in prison for it.
And I also believe that this idea of his to extract vigilante justice is ill begotten. And I`ll tell you why. Whenever I`m faced with a difficult decision, I always ask myself, what would Polly want?
And I think he needs to do the same thing. Would Haleigh want justice for whoever victimized her? Of course she would. But would she want her father to spend the rest of his life in prison for extracting vigilante justice upon that individual? No, she would not want that at all.
Because if that happened that means that the bad guy would win twice. He would take her life and he would effectively take Ron`s life as well.
I think he needs to do some very deep thinking and he has to believe in the justice system and believe the American criminal justice system in this case will prevail.
GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, you just said something that really strikes home with me because I do not think there is a single tangential murder victim, such as family of a murder victim, loved ones, that don`t feel that they should take vigilante justice and what you just said about what Polly would want, you`re right. You`re absolutely right.
I want to go to Brad Lamm, interventionist, author of "How to Change Someone You Love."
Brad, I`m going to go back to Art Harris in a second on this. But I recall Misty Croslin said she had a dream sequence where the night that Haleigh goes missing, she recalls, like, four men in the home.
OK. So what if she does what Klaas says and she dries out, she detoxes? How do we know she`ll ever be able to recover her memory of that night? Is that possible?
BRAD LAMM, INTERVENTIONIST, AUTHOR OF "HOW TO CHANGE SOMEONE YOU LOVE": Who knows, Nancy? There were still times in my life when I was getting high and I don`t know if it was real or imagined because of drugs.
But this is true that a child left in the home of an active alcoholic or addict is 70 times -- 70 times -- more likely to face a dangerous situation. And I think this tells the tale of so many children out there.
GRACE: OK, let me get that fact that you just said.
LAMM: Seventy times.
GRACE: Everybody, Brad Lamm, "How to Change Someone You Love." OK, if they`re in the home with an addict or an alcoholic?
LAMM: Yes. They`re 70 times more likely to be put in a risky situation. That involves sexual abuse, that involves kidnapping and abduction, and physical and emotional violence.
So when family and friends stand by and wonder, gosh, how bad does it need to be before we do something, you know, I think we can look at the kids and say the things we`re seeing there are probably lots of things happening that we have no idea about.
GRACE: Brad Lamm, does that -- that statistic is a wake-up call. Does that 70 percent include, like, household accidents? Like burning your hand on a curling iron or falling down the stairs?
LAMM: It does, Nancy. And I was working with a family today in Tampa, in Tampa -- who they had their home burned down because of the drug abuse and nonsense the mom was bringing into the home. They had all their childhood pictures burned up. And they were lucky just to get out with their lives.
So families are going through this crud all the time because of alcohol and drugs in the home.
GRACE: To you, Art Harris at Artharris.com. You`ve been on the story from the very beginning.
Art, refresh my recollection on that dream Misty Croslin had about the night Haleigh went missing.
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, ARTHARRIS.COM, INTERVIEWED MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S NEW STEPMOM: She talked about a dream sequence, Nancy, during some of the testing that was done on her by Texas EquuSearch. The hypnosis, the -- you know, the voice analysis.
And this was -- this was really the first, quote, "new detail," she offered that bubbled up from somewhere in the recesses of her psyche. So, you know, it`s something that then you match up with Junior`s recollection of a man in black with squeaky shoes and Junior, however, at 4 years old, was interviewed by an expert child psychologist who, you know, got the information but he`s too young legally for it to mean anything in court.
GRACE: Now what exactly -- she said that in this dream that there were four men in the home?
HARRIS: That`s what I recall her saying. And that, you know, they were just in the trailer and, you know, was she having a party? Was she passed out?
GRACE: Was she selling dope? For all I can tell, Art.
HARRIS: There you go.
GRACE: . she`s out working at truck stops and 7-Elevens all over the state of Florida selling dope.
We`re taking your calls live. I promise you I`m going to get to you when we come back. As we go to break, happy birthday, the 23rd, to friend of the show, Lauren Winters. Beautiful. Biology major. Dreams of being a physician`s assistant. Loves jazz but her true love is Crosby, her mini Dachshund.
Happy birthday, Lauren.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE CHARLES TINLIN, ST. JOHNS COUNTY JAIL: How old are you?
MISTY CROSLIN-CUMMINGS, RONALD CUMMING`S WIFE, LAST SEEN HALEIGH: Just turned 18.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They have her behind bars again and they do intend on questioning her again about Haleigh`s disappearance.
911 DISPATCHER: When did you last see her?
CROSLIN: Um, we just like, you know, it was bout 10:00. We were -- she was sleeping.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST; FMR. D.C. POLICE DET., FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: We know all along that Misty was the last one to see Haleigh -- allegedly the last one to see her alive. She knows more than what she`s been telling. So hopefully, hopefully, this will put a little more pressure on her to say, OK, what more do you know?
CROSLIN: I`m trying to do everything to find her, you know? I`m answering any questions I have to. I don`t know where she is.
BROOKS: What does Ronald know in this, too? He married her right -- just a number of months after this all happened and then they got divorced. There`s something else I think that he knows, too.
CUMMINGS: I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know. I was at work.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It`s been a year since cute little Haleigh Cummings was reported missing. And now her grandmother says she suspects Misty Croslin is the key to finding her. Here`s why. Teresa Neves, the mother of Ron Cummings, told NBC`s "Today" show she suspects.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Sheeba, Illinois, hi, Sheeba.
SHEEBA, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, baby. I haven`t talked to you in so long.
GRACE: I know. Where have you been?
SHEEBA: Right here, baby.
GRACE: We`ve been trying to soldier on without you but it`s been hard. What`s your question?
SHEEBA: My question is, how did they get all these drugs? Did they steal them? Because there`s not a physician that will write more than.
GRACE: Sheeba, Sheeba, Sheeba, how does anybody get them, Art Harris? Are they getting them allegedly from some dentist in Virginia?
HARRIS: It`s a combination. I know that she did get them from her friend, Donna Broch, who got them from a dentist in Virginia. She told a friend I interviewed. And then had this prescription of 155 endocet, which is a form of hydrocodone that she wanted Misty to sell. Because, as Misty told the undercover officer, Donna needed the money. So.
GRACE: Why do you call all these people by first name like they`re your best friends? Just curious. Don`t care. But why?
HARRIS: Well, you know, it`s.
GRACE: You do that about Simpson. You call him O.J. Why?
HARRIS: Well, it`s just sort of the vernacular. A lot of people do. It`s.
GRACE: Don`t like it.
HARRIS: What you prefer.
GRACE: Don`t like it.
HARRIS: Huh?
GRACE: I would prefer you say Croslin or Misty Croslin. Earlier you referred to Tommy, and I`m assuming that was Tommy Croslin, Misty Croslin`s brother.
OK. Listen, Sheeba`s question, no doctor would write -- I got two words to say. Michael Jackson. There were doctors and pharmacists facilitating his habit and now he`s dead. All right? I blame them.
HARRIS: Absolutely.
GRACE: Back to the calls. But first to Chris Saffran, former NYPD, CEO of Kindershield Agency.
Chris, what do you think? What do we do now? Can we crack the case?
CHRIS SAFFRAN, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE, CEO OF KINDERSHIELD AGENCY: Yes. I think the key to this will be to interview all the defendants in the narcotics case separately.
And, you know, you can therefore create confusion between one another, you know, with what was said by the other -- by the other co-defendants. So you can place a lot of -- you have a lot of leverage that you can wield with a narcotics case which you have solid, you know.
As far as the missing child case, you know, there`s a lot of speculation involved. They don`t even know if they have a homicide or if it`s an abduction or what happened. But, you know, they can definitely put a lot of pressure on Misty if, for example, her brother is one of the co- conspirators for the narcotics case.
And depending on the level of the felony charge they can say, listen, he rolled over on you and now -- you know, we know where -- you know, now we know what you did to her. Just let us know where she is. If you take us to her then, you know, maybe we can work some kind of deal with you.
GRACE: Hold on a moment. To the lawyers. Sue Moss, Renee Rockwell, Doug Burns.
Doug, I think they`ve got to do more than say, tell us what happened and maybe we can cut a deal. They`ve got to have a deal ready. Packaged deal on the dope, on Haleigh.
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.
GRACE: An attractive deal. I don`t mean give it away. But an attractive deal to make her tell the truth. That`s the only way anything is going to happen.
BURNS: I agree. I agree with what Chris was saying. I mean there`s a lot of avenues. However, in my opinion, this very well may be the case where she blacked out. You guys are getting very close to really what I think is the sad solution or reality of the case.
I think the woman blacked out that night and I`m not so sure that she has any recollection whatsoever of what took place. That`s the bad news.
The good news is, like Chris says, if they interview everybody separately they can use certain ruses obviously to get a confession, maybe something will happen.
GRACE: OK, Renee, I`ve had cases of my own where defendants have dream sequences, OK? Juries don`t believe that.
There were some men in that home that night. I don`t know what time. I don`t what, if anything, they had to do with this. But you don`t just say there were four men in the home, oops, I think that was a dream.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, Nancy. But you know what, after everybody sobered up and woke up they started talking to each other. And I can tell you that she knows something. And if I`m representing her, looking at 10, 15, 25 years, we`re going in to cut a deal, a packaged deal.
GRACE: To Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. Leslie, is there any way that if she was doped up -- come on, she was doped the night Haleigh goes missing, is there any way to recover those memories?
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Probably not. If she was really out of it would be very hard to get accuracy. But she might be able to recall some more details about the circumstances before she blacked out or before she lost memory.
She`d certainly know what happened earlier in that evening and when she became more aware and alert later on. So they could get something from her but not everything.
GRACE: I`m just going back to that dream. It`s just -- there is no coincidence in criminal law. I`m just spitting it out there.
AUSTIN: Right.
GRACE: That`s my experience. So you just don`t say, oh, yes, I had a dream about that night and there were four strange men in my apartment. No.
AUSTIN: No, that information comes from somewhere and they`d have to work to get what really happened, try and back it up with evidence. And people don`t just make up things like that when they`re talking to the police.
GRACE: Now -- and she`s got to get dried out. And that could take, you know, how long? To Dr. Evelyn Minaya, how long for a prescription drug addict to get dried out?
DR. EVELYN MINAYA, M.D., WOMEN`S HEALTH EXPERT: Well, it depends on how long she`s been using. And remember, we`re always assuming that it`s just prescription drugs that she was doing. It also involves alcohol, it can involve also other drugs as well.
So it can take between -- and you have to put it in a facility and she has to be under a doctor`s care as well. So it could take one to two weeks, even a month.
GRACE: A doctor`s care?
MINAYA: Doctor`s care.
GRACE: Why can`t she just sit in her cell?
MINAYA: She cannot sit in her cell. She actually needs others -- especially for alcoholics, also to detox, you need to give them something to substantiate them because a barbiturate, believe it or not, detox is very dangerous and they can die. And then we get no information on Haleigh whatsoever.
GRACE: OK. You know what, Brad Lamm, I do not believe that if this girl sits in jail without special treatment that she`s going to die.
Minaya, I always agree with you but on this -- she`s not going to kill over.
LAMM: I think that she`s a young gal, I`d be really surprised if she had such a troubling alcohol dependency that would require a lengthy detox. You know, I also think that they probably did a tox screen when they put her in jail, too, and ascertained if she needed a real detox.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUMMINGS: No TV. No radio. No nothing, man. I got a telephone through the doorway. That`s it. A toilet, a sink and a bed.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You haven`t heard anything about Misty? They certainly aren`t going to let you talk to her.
CUMMINGS: Nope. I have heard that her and Tommy`s bond were both reduced.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They told you her bond is reduced?
CUMMINGS: Yes, her bond was reduced to $150,000 and Tommy`s bond was reduced to $7,500.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Michelle Gonzalez`s playroom is disturbingly empty tonight. Her two little nieces who are usually scurrying about are missing and are now the subject of an Amber Alert.
Michelle said she was babysitting the 3 1/2-year-old Isabel and 2- year-old Kaydence like she does every day. Their mother, Meccinna Dufore, who does not have custody, stopped by to visit. Michelle left the room for just a minute.
MICHELLE GONZALEZ, BABYSITTER: When I came out, they were gone.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No one has seen them since.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, that story stinks. To Will Sterrett, assistant news director, Newsradio 740 KTRH, I understand the babysitter, who is also the aunt, has changed her story. Now she wasn`t in the bathroom, she went to a store?
WILL STERRETT, ASSISTANT NEWS DIR., NEWSRADIO 740 KTRH (via phone): That`s correct, Nancy. The initial story, of course, was that she went to use the restroom. When she came back, they were gone.
GRACE: Where, in Macy`s?
STERRETT: The aunt -- the story that we`ve gotten today is that she went to the store. She was gone for about 20 minutes. And when she came back, the kids were gone.
GRACE: To Sergeant Doug Thomas, a special guest joining us out of the Missing Persons Unit there in Houston, Harris County.
Sergeant, thank you for being with us. Sergeant, I don`t like it when witnesses start changing their story.
I think I got Sergeant Thomas with me. Are you there, sir?
SGT. DOUG THOMAS, MISSING PERSONS UNIT, HARRIS CO., SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Yes, I am.
GRACE: OK, Sergeant, has she changed her story? What store are we hearing she went to leaving the children at home?
THOMAS: We have not had that story. The story we have is that she arrived home from going home to the store and she had the children with her and found Meccinna in her yard waiting on her. They went inside to visit. She asked if she could come and visit her children. And she granted her that permission.
When they came in and she said could you watch them while I go to another room? And while she was gone from the room for just a few minutes, she came back and the kids -- her and the children were gone.
GRACE: Sergeant Thomas, did the mother have a vehicle?
THOMAS: As we went back and interviewed Michelle, she advised there was no vehicle in the driveway or different vehicle that she saw around the home at the time.
GRACE: OK, to Will Sterrett, KTRH, have there been any sightings of these two little girls, one is 2, one is 3? Tipline 713-755-7427. Any sightings?
STERRETT: To the best of our knowledge, there have not. There have been a couple of false positives so far where, you know, they thought they`d seen the mother in a van with a man. But at this point, no. There have not been any sightings.
GRACE: Everyone, again, the tipline on these beautiful little girls, 713-755-7427.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Daniel Scherry, 20, Rocky River, Ohio, killed Iraq. Dreamed of being a Marine since she was a boy when he would dress in military fatigues.
Loved life, football, time with family, friends, a recent grad of the Fire Training Academy, dreamed of being a firefighter. Leaves behind parents, Bob and Miriam, sisters, Casey and Lauren.
Daniel Scherry, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
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