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Brittany Murphy`s Husband Sues Warner Brothers; Jay Leno Speaks Out on `Oprah`; Interview With Whoopi Goldberg
Aired January 28, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight, on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, when actress Brittany Murphy died tragically at age 32, there were a lot of fingers pointing at her husband Simon Monjack. Well, Simon is pointing back and says he`s suing Warner Brothers for wrongful death.
Also, in an effort to fix their images, Tiger Woods went to sex rehab and John Edwards went to Haiti. Jay Leno has outdumbed them both, he went to Oprah.
And I saw Whoopi Goldberg just a few hours ago on "The View" but she`s here on my today. She likes me, she really likes me.
All this and more starts right now.
Actress Brittany Murphy`s sudden death shocked many but was it caused by something other than natural causes? Her husband thinks so. Simon Monjack is planning on suing Warner Brothers for firing his wife from a movie, claiming the stress led to a fatal heart attack only two weeks later.
Joining me now to talk about the details of this claim is Gerald Posner, chief investigative reporter for "The Daily Beast". Hi Gerald.
GERALD POSNER, CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, THE DAILY BEAST: Hi Joy.
BEHAR: Now you got an exclusive interview with Brittany Murphy`s husband. Did this claim surprise you?
POSNER: Yes. Absolutely surprised me. Look, you know the business as well. Actresses and actors are fired all the time, they`re let go from contracts. But his claim is -- and this is an interesting one -- you know, she was looking for a comeback vehicle. She hadn`t had hits since the `90s really with "Clueless" and other films that had made her such an aspiring talent.
And at 32 -- it`s hard to believe but that`s Hollywood, you know -- she`s looking for something to bring her back and she thinks this animated role of Gloria is going to establish sort of the comeback. And when Warner Brothers says guess what, it`s pulled out from you, he says she`s under such tremendous stress that it leads to what he believes is the heart attack and so he`s going to sue.
Look, it`s a long shot. But it`s interesting -- yes...
BEHAR: It`s a long shot. Monjack says that the studio killed her; that`s a little extreme. I mean people are out of work all over the country. People are getting fired and they`re not having a heart attack over it.
POSNER: No, I agree with you.
But here`s the thing that -- and you know, you read this story. What surprised me about is, is when you do actually listen to Monjack, that you get more of the story about Hollywood and how people are disposable.
You know, you`re making money for a studio, they`re there for you. They`ll send a private plane, they have the makeup artist. You want to go to dinner, it`s great.
And when you`re not -- you know what she was down to? Here was a girl who was making a few million dollars a movie and now they were offering her $10,000 a day for a five-day minimum, so she could collect $50,000. That was going to be her role on this.
That may be a lot of money -- I understand that -- there are some people who are working two jobs to support a family. But in Hollywood that`s not a lot of money.
BEHAR: No.
POSNER: And what had clearly happened is as Monjack says -- and he`s got a great line here -- it`s not a line in that, you know, he just uses it. He said there`s always another girl stepping off the bus. So people like her are disposable after a while.
BEHAR: I guess so. But how does he plan to prove this claim? I mean what is going to do.
POSNER: Well, what he`s going to do he says -- he says that he has spoken to pathologists and he`s spoken to doctors who are willing to take the stand to say this stress caused by this particular move by Warner Brothers is what caused the heart attack.
But guess what, Joy? The coroner in L.A. hasn`t released the final cause of death. So I said to him, "Wait a minute, you`re assuming it`s a heart attack." That`s because he swore on a stack of Bibles that he never saw her do drugs. She never did a line of cocaine. She never smoked any marijuana. That she had a glass of champagne on New Year`s. She wasn`t a drinker and she was afraid of even drinking too much coffee.
So I said what if worst-case, it turns out that she does have drugs in her and they give a report that says not a heart attack? He said well, then they`re doubly responsible because then she was somebody who didn`t do drugs and was driven to kill herself with drugs because they had stressed her out so much.
Look, he`s going to have a tough time having a jury buy this.
BEHAR: Boy, oh, boy, is he? But you know he`s been accused of capitalizing on his wife`s death for the reasons that you are basically stating there. But Brittany`s mother is supporting him.
POSNER: She is supporting him and here`s one of the things that I`ve been looking at, that I was surprised at. Look, originally when she died, I was very hard on him. I knew the nickname Conjack as well and I`ve heard that. But guess what, it turns out he owns the house that they`ve been living in, this large Hollywood Hills house. He`s the one who was spending the money and actually she had already lost her stardom by the time they met.
When they married in 2007, he was sort of the one keeping her going. He had met all of these early British artists like (INAUDIBLE) and others, had bought canvasses (ph) early. And it turns out that his grandfather was one of the major shareholders in British Steel. And I checked on that and it`s true.
So he comes from money background. He`s been involved in a lot of litigation. He lost a $500,000 lawsuit to a bank. There were rumors that he was drunk on her last set -- he adamantly denied that...
BEHAR: Yes.
POSNER: So all of that -- so he`s a character, there`s no question about that. And there are people that didn`t like him. But he does make a very, very sort of impassioned plea that he was truly in love with Brittany. And you do tend to believe that if you talk to him.
BEHAR: Thanks very much, Gerald. This is very interesting. Keep us posted on the story, ok?
POSNER: I will. Thanks Joy.
BEHAR: All right.
The next story is not really as tragic, to some any way. Jay Leno sat down with Oprah today to give his take on the whole "Tonight Show" fiasco. So was Jay stung by Conan`s barbs or NBC`s treatment of him?
Here to give me the little lowdown are Gary Rosen, publicist -- and they always know everything -- and president of Gary Rosen Communications; and author and comedian -- they always know everything also -- Jim Norton and a contributor to "The Jay Leno Show".
So you guys, welcome to the show.
You Jim, you have a little, you know, you`re prejudiced.
JIM NORTON, COMEDIAN: A little responsibility for the show being yanked.
BEHAR: Yes. So what do you think? I mean, how responsible? What`s going on?
NORTON: Look, it`s amazing to me how many people are acting like Jay`s a criminal because he was number one, they asked him to leave. And then he wants to go back to his old show when they offered it to him.
What was he supposed to do? Just sit home and look at the window? It`s like people are so dumb. The guy was great at what he did and they`re angry that he wants to go back when he`s offered when Conan had a tough time. It`s just silly.
BEHAR: Let`s look at something. So many people have been vilifying Leno that he tells Oprah he started to question himself. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, NBC HOST: I always thought that you`re doing the right thing. I always felt I was doing the right thing. You go how can you do the right thing and just have it go so wrong? Maybe I`m not doing the right thing. I would think maybe I`m doing something wrong.
This many people are angry and upset over a television show.
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": Did you ever ask yourself, "Am I being selfish?"
LENO: Sure. Yes, you ask yourself that every day.
WINFREY: And your answer was, is?
LENO: I don`t think so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Now, Gary, you`re a publicist and it looks as though Jay is in full damage control here. How is he doing with that?
GARY ROSEN, PRESIDENT, GARY ROSEN COMMUNICATIONS: I think it was a great move.
BEHAR: To go on Oprah?
ROSEN: To go on Oprah. Absolutely. He needed a forum and he needed an extended period of time. She had it on for an hour. It wasn`t a sound bite on "Access Hollywood" or "Entertainment Tonight".
BEHAR: Right.
ROSEN: He told his side of the story and she let him tell his side of the story. And I think it was misunderstood prior to him doing it. I don`t think there`s any -- we`ll see how the papers play it tomorrow. But I don`t think if you were going in, that it was going to be worse for Jay Leno after doing this. I think he`s going to convert some of his fans back to his side.
BEHAR: So if you are his publicist...
ROSEN: Yes.
BEHAR: You would say go on Oprah, you wouldn`t say go on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW?
ROSEN: I would say that tomorrow, I would. I would say go on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW tomorrow, full hour.
But no, absolutely. Go on Oprah. It`s a huge audience...
BEHAR: Yes.
ROSEN: Everyone watches her. Everyone respects her. And he told his side of the story.
Look, in 2004, he said I`m going to give "The Tonight Show" to Conan O`Brien five years later. The first time he said he was devastated. Of course he was devastated.
BEHAR: He didn`t like it.
ROSEN: Of course. Why should he like it?
BEHAR: Right Jim? He didn`t like it. No.
NORTON: No, he was toeing the company line which is why he`s a success and I have aspired to mediocrity because I would have shot my big mouth off and blown the gig. He just said all right. Let`s just stay at number one and he did and he made himself indispensable. That`s -- he`s a smart guy for doing that.
BEHAR: He`s a hard worker is what he is.
He told -- Oprah told Leno what she and a lot of other viewers thought, when he took a pop shot at Letterman`s infidelity after Letterman took a low blow at him.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WINFREY: I thought, whoa. You know what? I thought that was beneath you actually. I thought -- why did you step into that?
LENO: How many jokes of that have I done? One. I did one joke in the middle of the week and I never did another one because I said -- There I had a cheap shot thrown at me and I threw one cheap shot back and I moved on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. You know what the cheap shot was.
NORTON: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Ok. Let me just remind the audience that Letterman took a cheap shot at Leno saying that he basically stole material, which is -- that is a complete sense of comedians -- to accuse anybody. It`s like stealing money from children, we don`t like that. So that was nasty.
NORTON: It`s the worst insult. The worst insult to a comic. I was so happy that Leno took the gloves off. I like Dave. I think Dave is funny and he`s a good comic. And he was doing what he should be doing.
But I wanted to see Leno take the gloves off and he did and he should.
BEHAR: But Leno, so Leno went back at Letterman and made a joke about his wife. A lot of people say that was pretty bad, too.
ROSEN: Listen. You`re a comedian, he is a comedian. The bottom line is Letterman was beating him up every single night and funny. Television doesn`t get any better than this.]
I mean Conan was funny, Letterman was funny, Leno was funny -- he took a shot back. You`ve always said that nothing is really off-limits.
BEHAR: I know. The ratings all went up for all of them. Nobody really lost that much.
ROSEN: Absolutely. And when Jay comes back, the ratings will be blockbuster for the first week. He should have Hugh Grant on and Hugh Grant should ask him, "So what were you thinking?"
BEHAR: Yes. Well, that was the tipping point for his ratings.
ROSEN: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Now, let me ask you Jim. If you got the $35 million to not work like Conan did, what would you do?
NORTON: I would probably be dead within a week in a hotel.
BEHAR: Why?
NORTON: I`d relapse on drugs and prostitutes. It would be an ugly scene. No dignity whatsoever.
BEHAR: Ok, so just give me briefly what do you think is next for Conan?
ROSEN: I think Conan`s going to probably go to Fox. I think he can compete at 11:30 on a younger network. It wasn`t the right fit for him.
BEHAR: Right.
ROSEN: For NBC for 11:30. They should never have taken Jay off to begin with.
He`s he going to go back. Is he going to be number one? Initially he will be but then he`s going to have to wait it out with Dave. He has to win back the public.
BEHAR: Are you going to continue to be on Jay`s show?
NORTON: I hope so.
BEHAR: I hope so too Jim.
NORTON: ...I really do too.
BEHAR: You`re very good.
NORTON: Thank you.
BEHAR: Thank you. Thanks, everyone.
A little later I`ll be talking to pal Whoopi Goldberg. So stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT SCHIMMEL, COMEDIAN: And why are hemorrhoids called hemorrhoids and asteroids called asteroids? Wouldn`t it make more sense if it was the other way around?
And if that was true, you wouldn`t be a proctologist, you would be an astronaut.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was very funny, Robert Schimmel. His latest book is called "Cancer on $5 a Day (Chemo not included): How Humor got me through the toughest journey of my life".
Welcome to the show, Robert.
SCHIMMEL: It`s good to be here.
BEHAR: So nice to have you here.
So you are very, you know, you`re out there with your stuff. You`ve got cancer, you had chemo. Did you say to yourself "oh, goody, 20 new minutes of material?" I mean...
SCHIMMEL: No. But my parents did that day. The day I got diagnosed they`re with me and the doctor said, "Well, there`s non-Hodgkins lymphoma and there`s Hodgkins disease. You have non-Hodgkins and I said "Well, that`s my luck, I got the one that`s not named after the guy."
BEHAR: I see.
SCHIMMEL: Then he said, he said, "If that`s the way you`re taking it, you`re going to be ok."
BEHAR: Well, so the good -- what was the good that came out of cancer for you?
SCHIMMEL: What was the good that came out of it? Your priorities change pretty fast and you realize what really means something in life and what doesn`t. And when you live in L.A. like I do and you let somebody else try and dictate what success means and having a BMW or a Mercedes...
BEHAR: Right.
SCHIMMEL: ...and Plasma television and all of this other stuff a house in the hills, if you don`t have that then you`re not successful and you didn`t make it.
When I went for chemo therapy the first day, I realized there was no parking space for the BMW next to my bed. Those things don`t get to go with you. It`s your family and your loved ones, your friends -- that`s who get you through it.
BEHAR: But you have a particular talent and I`ve seen your performances. You just make fun of yourself in that way. I mean, you even -- I know that you had a tragic story about your child...
SCHIMMEL: Yes.
BEHAR: ...who passed away, right?
SCHIMMEL: Yes.
BEHAR: And you were at a Make-a-Wish Foundation.
SCHIMMEL: No, no, no.
BEHAR: Tell me about that story.
SCHIMMEL: No, no, I was -- I was doing Howard Stern for the first time. And I didn`t know what to expect. I went in, I sat down and you know, Howard said, "You have a dead kid, right?" And I`m like, what? And he said didn`t you have a son that died? Like in 1992 and I said yes, he said that must have been tough. And I said well, the Make-a-Wish Foundation came to our house, they wanted to make a wish come true and I said that he wanted to watch Dolly Parton consummate a honeymoon night with me. Not in those words and Howard cuts a commercial -- we were still on Terrestrial Radio and said you can be on for the rest of your life.
And I really did say that to the Make-a-Wish Foundation. They were stunned.
BEHAR: They were?
SCHIMMELL: They said we were thinking Disneyland or you know or not spiritual and I said hey, she can do it in Disneyland and that`s very fun. I don`t care where you are.
BEHAR: So when you make jokes like that about your deceased child or your cancer and the fact that your Holocaust -- you`re family are Holocaust survivors...
SCHIMMEL: Yes.
BEHAR: ...you`re parents, right?
SCHIMMEL: Yes.
BEHAR: How does the family deal with it, how do they take it?
SCHIMMEL: Well, I don`t think my parents will find it funny about my son but my son would have been the first to laugh at it.
BEHAR: Does it help you to laugh at it.
SCHIMMEL: Oh absolutely. And I think that finding humor in the worst things is -- you know when you`re in the hospital and your family and your friends come to see you, they don`t know what to think.
And I`ll tell you what they think. They open the door and they`re facing the wrong mortality. You represent exactly the thing that scares them the most.
BEHAR: That`s right.
SCHIMMEL: And I think if you find humor in it, then you let them off the hook emotionally and they can be themselves around you instead of walking on egg shells.
Once my mom came in and she was -- I could tell she was crying in the hallway and I said mom, you just missed it there was a guy in here that wanted to sell me a crotch wig.
BEHAR: A what?
SCHIMMEL: A crotch wig.
BEHAR: A crotch wig?
SCHIMMEL: Yes...
BEHAR: Yes.
SCHIMMEL: ...they have them.
BEHAR: They do?
SCHIMMEL: Yes the do.
BEHAR: For what purpose?
SCHIMMEL: For your crotch because you lose all your hair and the head is ok. You know, women, there`s a double standard. You know women can shave there, guys think it`s sexy. A 50-year-old man is bald down there and I lost a testicle, not to cancer, my insurance is aware co-pay but it just doesn`t look good.
BEHAR: Yes.
SCHIMMEL: It didn`t even look like a penis anymore; it looked like a sad whistle.
BEHAR: So...
SCHIMMEL: And they have wigs.
BEHAR: They have wigs for that.
SCHIMMEL: Yes.
BEHAR: All right.
SCHIMMEL: Different styles. It`s not just one.
BEHAR: All right.
SCHIMMEL: There`s the executive, the adventurers, salt and pepper, the surfer.
BEHAR: Is that a fact?
SCHIMMEL: Yes.
BEHAR: I`ve never heard this.
SCHIMMEL: It`s called the Merkin, M-e-r-k-i-n.
BEHAR: I didn`t know you`d needed that but ok.
SCHIMMEL: It didn`t help.
BEHAR: Now, so -- so -- so this is a way of calming everybody down, dealing with a tragedy by being funny, which I was talking yesterday to Tracey Ullman about how comedy is a defense. You`re describing exactly what I mean.
SCHIMMEL: Yes.
BEHAR: And you know this is only way and you`re making other people happy while you do it. But your parents are Holocaust survivors, right? Do they joke about that?
SCHIMMEL: No.
BEHAR: They don`t? Do you?
SHIMMEL: No, my parents...
BEHAR: Do you?
SCHIMMEL: I did once. One time, my parents are in "Shoa". My parents are in the Simon Wiesenthal....
BEHAR: The movie "Shoa"...
SCHIMMEL: Yes.
BEHAR: The film, yes.
SCHIMMEL: Yes, Center for Holocaust Studies, not -- the one on Cartoon Network -- don`t think I`m not going to hear about that. And they`re in the Holocaust museum in Washington, D.C. So I go to the museum with my parents. And if you`re a survivor, you don`t have to wait in line. You get like a VIP pass to go through there.
And it`s really horrifying -- I mean, to -- that your parents went through that is really unbelievable. And when you get out, it`s like being in Vegas. You`ve finish the museum and you dump into the gift shop.
BEHAR: Right.
SCHIMMEL: And I said gee, the only thing missing is a T-shirt that says, I survived the Holocaust and all I got was this lousy t-shirt. And my parents look at me like, what?
BEHAR: Yes.
SCHIMMEL: Yes.
BEHAR: Well, you know, you saw Larry David`s episode on "Curb Your Enthusiasm"...
SCHIMMEL: Yes.
BEHAR: ...where he had survivors there from the Holocaust and he also had a survivor from the show "Survivor" and he sort put those together. I`m sure he got tons of mail over that.
SCHIMMEL: Yes.
BEHAR: But again, it was a way of dealing with the horrifying tragedy of it.
SCHIMMEL: Yes, my father, he has survivor`s guilt. He feels guilty that he made it.
BEHAR: That`s common isn`t it?
SCHIMMEL: Because he lost everybody else.
BEHAR: Where were they, by the way?
SCHIMMEL: My parents were both in Auschwitz.
BEHAR: And they got out.
SCHIMMEL: And they got out, yes.
BEHAR: They were lucky.
SCHIMMEL: They were very lucky.
My dad saved my life in the hospital. I had one more treatment to go and I was going to quit. I couldn`t take it anymore. I have neutropinic (ph) fever, my white blood count was 0.5...
BEHAR: Yes.
SCHIMMEL: ...isolation for 21 days, I couldn`t see anybody he came in and I said dad, if you love me, you`ll unhook me and help me jump out the window and -- because I can`t take it anymore. At least if it jumped out, when I hit the sidewalk, the cancer dies when I do.
BEHAR: Right.
SCHIMMEL: And he said, "I`ll be right back." And he walked out and came in with my 9-year-old daughter and my 2-year-old son. Stood them at the bed and said, "Tell them what you just told me."
BEHAR: You couldn`t do it.
SCHIMMEL: And then he sat on the bed and talked to me. I said how did you make it? His mother and father, sister and brother were killed. He`s the only survivor.
He said that he was marching one day in a forced labor march. His best friend was in front of him and couldn`t walk anymore. German soldier came over, shot the kid -- the kid falls down dead. The father bent down to hug his son and the guy shot the father turned around and said to everyone else, "If you want to survive, you have to keep moving forward."
And my dad said, "You know what? I hate to quote a Nazi soldier, but if you want to survive, you have to keep moving forward. You can`t look back. You can`t change the past.
BEHAR: It`s profound.
SCHIMMEL: It is.
BEHAR: It`s profound and you make comedy out of it. I think it`s remarkable.
SCHIMMEL: I don`t think I have a choice.
BEHAR: You don`t?
SCHIMMEL: I really don`t.
BEHAR: More with Robert Schimmel in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with comedian and author Robert Schimmel.
You know, you`ve been a frequent guest on Conan. What do you make of all of this? It`s sort of coming to an end now?
SCHIMMEL: I think Conan is smart for leaving and I really don`t think it has anything to do with Jay and Conan. They really have no say in it. I think that it`s the network that makes all those decisions.
And it`s totally a different time because I remember growing up with Johnny Carson and that was a ritual to watch Johnny Carson at night. He was in your living room or your bedroom every night. And they would have never changed his time spot to an earlier spot and slid someone else in there because you knew he was on at this time.
For Jay, it wouldn`t make a difference because Jay`s act is the same, and I don`t mean it in a bad way, but he`s safe no matter what. He can do an afternoon show. But Conan had to be different coming down to an earlier time. He couldn`t be as edgy.
BEHAR: They didn`t give him that much time to figure it out. He was only there -- what -- seven months. They gave Leno 12 years basically, although he did do very well.
In fact, he`s coming out of this like the villain, which I don`t really understand.
SCHIMMEL: Me neither.
BEHAR: I think it`ll be fine.
SCHIMMEL: Conan`s -- they`re both great guys. Conan was very, very good to me.
BEHAR: Didn`t you get in trouble for an inappropriate joke on his show?
SCHIMMEL: Yes. Well, here`s what happened. You know when you do these shows, you have to go to Caroline`s or Gotham or someplace to run the set for standards and practices and for time and everything. So I get there, I`m in the green room and Karlan (ph) was on the same show I was on. He had just came off and Jeff Ross (ph) came over to me and said "Ok, Karlan already went way over anything he could do on the show, so don`t try and compete with him out there, like you ever could."
BEHAR: You mean with language?
SCHIMMEL: Yes. And Conan comes in and says, "What are you going to open with." And I said, "I was at the dentist, and had nitrous oxide for the first time. And I`m sitting, I`m feeling a little high and the guy goes ok, Robert, now you`re going to feel a little prick in your mouth and I said I`m going to need a lot more gas before that starts happening." And Conan laughs and says do it.
So I go out and do it. I walk out. I open with the joke and all of a sudden the band is like -- what? And they come over and go, why would you do that joke? I said Conan told me to. They said don`t listen to him. I said it`s his show. They said no it`s not. He`s the host of the show. Don`t do that.
BEHAR: Yes, standards and practices. But that was a double entendre joke and you know as Lenny Bruce says it`s in your head if it`s really blue, right?
SCHIMMEL: It`s a double entendre but pricking the mouth is people usually go for the first entendre. They`re not going how else, could he mean that?
BEHAR: So what`s next for you? Any personal tragedies coming up that you can make hay with?
SCHIMMEL: I`m going to the Mayo Clinic next week for a check up hoping for another 15 minutes of material. I did nine years, by the way. I did get in trouble with the Mayo Clinic for being on Conan. Because he put me on -- Conan called me when I was in the hospital and said whenever you`re ready to do the show -- when you`re done with chemo, you`re on. Just tell me what day.
So I`m walking down Broadway that day and I run into Jackie Mason. Jackie Mason is like with two guys. I`m wearing a baseball hat; I`m completely bald, no eyebrows, no eye lashes, nothing. He come over, what happened to you? I said I just finished chemotherapy. He goes, Oh my God. Are you ok.
And I said yes. Friends come over and Jackie says I want you to meet a funny guy, Howie Mandel.
BEHAR: That`s showbiz baby.
Come back again. You`re very funny.
SCHIMMEL: Thanks.
BEHAR: You can catch Robert Schimmel at Comics in New York January 28th through the 30th. Stay well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOLDBERG: Hey, hey, hey, be nice to Condoleezza. She`s a poor black woman that brought herself up to nothing. Nothing. She walked to school buck naked in the snow. And now she has raised herself up to be the most powerful woman in the world. That can`t sit well with Oprah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was my "View" co-host and good friend Dame Whoopi Goldberg. I`m going to call you Dame.
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": I like that.
BEHAR: In addition to winning an Oscar, an Emmy, a Grammy, a Tony, what, no bowling trophies for you? She`s also written a new children`s book "Sugar Plum Ballerina." It`s perfectly prima. Welcome to the show.
GOLDBERG: Thank you.
BEHAR: Do you miss the girls? Do you feel naked?
GOLDBERG: I thought you meant these?
BEHAR: No.
GOLDBERG: Where did they go.
BEHAR: The other girls.
GOLDBERG: Oh, the other girls. No, it`s quite nice to see you here in all of your splendor.
BEHAR: In all my splendor, in my beautiful studio.
GOLDBERG: Yes, with your evening backdrop.
BEHAR: And look, we have this from Tiananmen, from the old days. GOLDBERG: Yes see.
BEHAR: When I grew up in Brooklyn and you too. Well you grew up in Chelsea.
GOLDBERG: I yes. I grew up in Chelsea.
BEHAR: Chelsea, for people who live out of New York --
GOLDBERG: I`m from downtown New York -
BEHAR: It`s in Manhattan.
GOLDBERG: Manhattan.
BEHAR: Yes, the projects though, right?
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: The projects - but you know the projects in Manhattan is already a sophisticated place to live.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: Because you`re in Manhattan.
GOLDBERG: You`re in Manhattan and as a kid I had access to anything I wanted. You know, if I wanted to see art, I could go to any of the -
BEHAR: The museums.
GOLDBERG: Museums. I could go to museums, if I wanted to know about the sky, I could go to the planetarium. I mean there were just so many things I could go see. And you know my mom, she`s very into know what is around you, know what`s possible, what you`re capable of. So she exposed us to everything.
BEHAR: Uh huh, she was a good mom.
GOLDBERG: She is a good mom.
BEHAR: Do you think that the kids today who are growing up in the projects, let`s say, do they take advantage of the cultural activities? Children seem to be watching TV --
GOLDBERG: Well come -- I mean, you know, think about it. The cultural activities that were open for you and I were free.
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDBERG: If our parents didn`t have any money, we could still go and enjoy those things. Now you have to have some dough to live in the city.
BEHAR: Yes, it`s very expensive.
GOLDBERG: It`s a little different, it`s very different from when I was little.
BEHAR: Before we talk about your book.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: I want to talk about the State of the Union last night.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: We talked a little bit about it on "The View" today.
GOLDBERG: A little bit.
BEHAR: But what did you - what is your overall impression of it now that you have time to think about it?
GOLDBERG: Well you know I look at it this way. The guy`s been in for a year. Excuse me. And we had eight years of nothing happening.
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: You know, nothing happening. Nobody cared about, you know, pensions or health or any of those things.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
GOLDBERG: And now we have a guy who is trying to say, look, I`ve got a lot of stuff to take care of, so this is what I am trying to do. And my favorite line of his last night was I never said I was going to do this alone. BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: I never said that I didn`t need help. You know, so I also appreciate that he`s saying, you know, look, I appreciate you don`t like what I do, you know to the Republicans. I know you don`t like what I do.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
GOLDBERG: But that is no reason for you not to work for the American people.
BEHAR: They were kind of rude, the Republican people. Maybe that`s true no matter what--
GOLDBERG: Yes, it doesn`t matter who is there.
BEHAR: I mean they just sit on their hands with sullen looks on their faces, like junior high school kids.
GOLDBERG: Yes, yes, well the Democrats do the same thing.
BEHAR: I guess they do.
GOLDBERG: I mean they use to give -- there was some looks that they gave Bush that were pretty funny.
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDBERG: You know while he was doing the State of the Union. They like - when they see him.
BEHAR: Did you notice how coordinated Joe Biden`s outfit was with Nancy Pelosi? They were like purple and a purple tie. It was so cute they were like the bobbsy twins.
GOLDBERG: Well also Michelle was in purple.
BEHAR: And Michelle was like a purple nice.
GOLDBERG: Yes it was "The Color Purple."
BEHAR: The color purple.
GOLDBERG: I thought they were speaking to me, you know.
BEHAR: Okay let`s look at something from the show.
GOLDBERG: Okay.
BEHAR: One hot moment from last night was this. Watch Supreme Court Justice Alito on the left of your screen in response to Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Last week, the Supreme Court reversed a century of law that I believe will open the flood gates for special interests. Including foreign corporations to spend without limit in our elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, I mean, he just shakes his head and goes that`s not true which is not much different from "you lie. "
GOLDBERG: Yes, I mean it`s pretty much the same thing, but they felt, I assume, that they were doing the right thing. But I`m not sure it was the smartest move for them to make, because --
BEHAR: You mean the Supreme Court decision?
GOLDBERG: The Supreme Court, because it does -- it does allow lots of people now to make campaign contributions, folks in, you know, I`m so tired. I can`t even --
BEHAR: That`s all right. I`m trying to figure out where you`re going.
GOLDBERG: Folks in unions.
BEHAR: Oh unions, yes.
GOLDBERG: You know it allows a lot of people who have not been able to give as much as they would like to give.
BEHAR: Yes but there`s no cap.
GOLDBERG: Unfortunately it opens up to many different things. So I think the President is like, look, I don`t think it was a good decision and I`m hoping that Congress will make it so we can all work with that.
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: And Samuel Alito can shake his head and say no, I don`t like it and that`s fine.
BEHAR: Well there`s nothing we can do about it. Because they say that`s it and we have to wait till they die to change the law, which is annoying.
GOLDBERG: Or the president can say, you know, we`re going to handle this from now on. I also appreciated the fact though that he said, you know what? You don`t want to get this done, I understand. You send it to me, I`m going to put a veto on the stuff that I`m sick of this now. I`m going to veto stuff I don`t believe in. You want to play like that, okay.
BEHAR: Yes, well, George Bush for the first six years did not veto anything, he did eight. Everything the Republicans gave him, he signed. The last two years when the Democrats got more power.
GOLDBERG: Uh huh.
BEHAR: The he started, he suddenly found his pen.
GOLDBERG: Well you know, sometimes when you`re menopausal, you lose your pen or something. You can`t find.
BEHAR: You think George Bush is menopausal? Well, that`s a new one.
GOLDBERG: Men get menopause, too.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s true.
GOLDBERG: So that can happen. I like George.
BEHAR: But what about Chris Matthews? Let`s talk about Chris Matthews. I mean we didn`t discuss this today, but I was interested in this because he`s taking a lot of heat for something he said on MSNBC last night. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS MATTHEWS: He is post-racial by all appearances. You know, I forgot he was black tonight for an hour. You know, he`s gone a long way to become a leader of this country and past so much history in just a year or two. I mean it`s something we don`t even think about. I was watching and I said wait a minute, he`s an African-American guy in front of a bunch of white people and here he is President of the United States and we`ve completely forgotten that tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Maybe he needs a new TV. What do you think he was driving at there? Because he`s a lefty, you know, he`s liberal.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: And he likes Obama.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: And yet he says something stupid like that. You know, I forgot he was black. He would never say I forgot he was white. He was looking at Bush.
GOLDBERG: No well, white people, you know, this is -- this has been quite a year for the white man.
BEHAR: Traumatic.
GOLDBERG: Traumatic in many ways because the things that people say now, you have to think before you speak. It sounded great in his head, I`m sure, because I know Chris.
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDBERG: I know what he was trying to say was, you know, I wasn`t concentrating on that. I appreciate that with him. But you know, people have begun to say things which they think are PC and OK and people go, whoa, maybe you shouldn`t say that. Now the truth of the matter is, you know, maybe people are starting to see Obama as Obama.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
GOLDBERG: As a president and not a black president. I think that`s what Chris was trying to get at.
BEHAR: I think so.
GOLDBERG: But sometimes it`s hard, you know, it`s like if you`re black often times people say to you, you`re so articulate, not realizing how offensive that actually is.
BEHAR: It is offensive.
GOLDBERG: You know because you would never say to somebody who is white, gee, you can dance.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
GOLDBERG: And not think it was going to be slightly offensive comment.
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: You know so we`re all having to learn how to--
BEHAR: White people say stupid things.
GOLDBERG: A lot of people say stupid things. Everybody says stupid stuff.
BEHAR: Yes, but --
GOLDBERG: Well you know what? We are now hearing it and looking at it and examining it in a way we never had to before.
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDBERG: Because people are hearing themselves and going, okay, what did I actually mean by that?
BEHAR: Now let`s talk about your little book.
GOLDBERG: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: Series, I love them, the Sugar Plum Ballerinas. Is this part of a series?
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: Because you have another one right?
GOLDBERG: Yes, there is six of them. They`re going to be six of them
BEHAR: Uh huh, it`s -- what is this about, this book?
GOLDBERG: This is about some little girls whose moms want them to be ballerinas, you know little girls now, they can ride skateboards, they can do -- they can surf, they can do anything. We didn`t do that. So we have fostered into our daughters that they can go and be ballerinas and they`re like, yes okay, we`ll do that, but we want to do the skateboard thing and I want to be a doctor and I want to be this.
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDBERG: So they make friends with each other because they are varying in colors as you can see. Because as it turns out, you know, black people come in different hues. You know that`s when the things that we want to teach folks is that, you know, just because someone doesn`t look black doesn`t mean they`re not.
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: So the little girls learn this as well. Because one is half Italian, and you know, it`s a lot of stuff.
BEHAR: OK and also, the Whoopi`s Big Book of Manners has come out in paperback.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: Which is nice, you teach children about manners.
GOLDBERG: Well this is more -- I`ve written this for children, but it`s really for adults. It`s just the basics of please and thank you. And how to answer a telephone, you know because we have lost a lot of those, you know, little tiny chips of manners. So I just want of want to bring them back.
BEHAR: Well this is about teaching people not to interrupt maybe the View girl need to read that one. All right stay right there. We are just getting started, back in a minute
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
BEHAR: That was the scene from "Sister Act" and Whoopi as a singing and dancing nun. You`re going to be producing this show on Broadway?
GOLDBERG: Yes in 2011 we`ll bring it here. It`s in London now.
BEHAR: It`s so perfect for a Broadway musical.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: It was a no-brainer to get it together, right?
GOLDBERG: Well, I, you know, I came to the process late because the original folks said that they decided to do it hadn`t contacted me and didn`t, I guess, want my input.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
GOLDBERG: And the man that subsequently took over called and said, we would like you to be part of this. Okay, sure.
BEHAR: Well, I think it`s going to be fantastic.
GOLDBERG: Well I mean it is fun. It`s fun. You know, this is never -- you never think that a movie you`ve done or anything you`ve done has another life but it is in fact a great --
BEHAR: For sure. I mine, look at "The Color Purple" they made that into a musical, too.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: You know, so you have also your standup that is fabulous, the character and the work that you`ve done. So I want to see one of those.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOLDBERG: I remember growing up, Amsterdam 20 years ago. Thank you, thank you. You`ve been? Did we share a pipe together or something? You know, I love Amsterdam, man. It`s a kicking town. And I found everything I wanted over there. Legally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLDBERG: I loved it.
BEHAR: California now legally too.
GOLDBERG: Yes. Well, you know, they say it`s legal but I don`t know if it`s legal legal yet, you know.
BEHAR: That character is supposed to be a junkie, I take it right.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: But she has a PhD.?
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
GOLDBERG: Well YOU know, junkies come in all
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: Kinds of guises. So I love him because he allowed me to talk about many different things, including my trip. My first trip to Amsterdam where I went to the Ann Frank house.
BEHAR: Uh huh, I love that -
GOLDBERG: It will knock you out.
BEHAR: Terrific part of the show.
GOLDBERG: Thank you.
BEHAR: Where did you come up with this idea, did you know people like Fontanne as a kid?
GOLDBERG: Yes, I mean, you know I was people like Fontanne as a kid?
BEHAR: I know I`ve heard you say that.
GOLDBERG: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: Tell me a little about that? When was that?
GOLDBERG: When I was young.
BEHAR: Really young?
GOLDBERG: Well not really - not like 7.
BEHAR: No.
GOLDBERG: But in the teen years I liked drugs.
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDBERG: You know, I know now that drugs are bad for you, so I don`t do them anymore.
BEHAR: Don`t worry, there`s no kids watching the show.
GOLDBERG: Yes, that`s what you think.
BEHAR: But they are - they`re not good for you. Even marijuana too, all it does is increase my appetite. I don`t like any kind of drugs.
GOLDBERG: No, you should do drugs.
BEHAR: I don`t.
GOLDBERG: You don`t need drugs.
BEHAR: I like alcohol. I like a glass of wine.
GOLDBERG: Some people - you like a glass of wine.
BEHAR: That`s what I like.
GOLDBERG: But you see alcohol scares me more than just about anything.
BEHAR: Well a lot of it.
GOLDBERG: You know because, well people think when -- the thing about smoking weed is this, you rarely hear of accidents or deaths connected to pot
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: Because potheads don`t move from the house.
BEHAR: Right. True.
GOLDBERG: They don`t get in the car. Because it`s like, why? Why would I leave car?
BEHAR: This is fun to hear.
GOLDBERG: Yes but with alcohol, it gives you a false sense of security.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
GOLDBERG: That`s why people always think that they sound fine when they`re talking to people and they`re drunk.
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDBERG: You know, alcohol is rough, you know, and people are -- you know you have all these smoking things with cigarettes and all this stuff, but I think alcohol is much scarier, much scarier than smoke.
BEHAR: Yes but the thing about your characters is they ring very true. They`re really authentic.
GOLDBERG: Uh huh.
BEHAR: And they`re from someplace.
GOLDBERG: Yes, they`re from my heart.
BEHAR: this is another one that I like from your standup act.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOLDBERG: And my mother made me go to my room because she said it wasn`t nothing on my head and I said nuh-uh, this is my long luxurious blonde hair. And she said nuh-uh, fool, that`s his shirt. And I say, no, you`re a fool, this is my hair. And she made me go to my room.
(END VIDE CLIP)
BEHAR: Now that character is based, you told me this, an experience with your daughter.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: Tell me again about that.
GOLDBERG: Well when Alex was small, you know, I was one of those parents that, you know, said, listen, you`re great the way you are, you don`t have to look like anybody, you don`t have to be anybody else.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
GOLDBERG: You are stunning as you are. And she had a shirt on her head talking about she had long, long luxurious blonde hair and I thought why? And then I started to look at magazines and things and I saw that there was nothing that looked like her.
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: No one representative and no one that looked like her. And no one that looked like me. And I thought if she is still walking around with this, then there`s a lot of little girls who don`t have that information.
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: You know so I thought, okay, I need to address that. So that`s where that came from.
BEHAR: Do you think you`re as good a mother as your mother was?
GOLDBERG: No, god no.
BEHAR: On a scale of like let`s say Joan Crawford to Mother Teresa, where do you fall?
GOLDBERG: I probably fall -- let`s see, I probably. Who is in the middle?
BEHAR: In the middle?
GOLDBERG: Yeah.
BEHAR: Let`s say Debbie Reynolds.
GOLDBERG: I could be just as good a mom as Debbie Reynolds. Yes because Debbie had an entire career, you know, and she had to raise her kids and had to leave at times. And I could have -- I always say this in hind sight. I feel like I could have been a better parent, I could have made some better choices. You know A great parent --
BEHAR: Well everyone could.
GOLDBERG: Well that`s where am at, you know. But my -- what gives me great peace is that my daughter is a great mother, you know.
BEHAR: Uh huh, even though she started very young, your daughter.
GOLDBERG: She started very young. But you know, she got it together at the points where it need to get together. And her daughter, her oldest daughter was just like her, just as rebellious and just as out there and then clicked. They go into the teen tunnel and you don`t see them for like seven years. And then they come out and they go hi, momma. And you`re like, I`m going to kick -- go, "hi, mama." oh, you`re back. Okay. Okay. How you doing? Oh I`m fine, I have a discovered myself and I feel like I know -- and inside, you`re going, oh so now you`re back, huh? Yeah, okay.
BEHAR: Uh huh, uh huh, do you ever worry she will write a tell- all book?
GOLDBERG: There`s nothing to tell, I have told it.
BEHAR: You have told it all, it`s true.
GOLDBERG: You know there`s not much that she can say.
BEHAR: Right okay, we will be back with more with Whoopi Goldberg. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: We are talking about hot topics. And don`t worry, we made them up during the commercial break.
UNKNOWN: Ridiculous. So what if a 5-year-old wears makeup? So what? It`s cute, who cares.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know you have made it when you are imitated by men?
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: You know, the men in drag. It`s like I was so complimented by it oh, it`s interesting, they are actually doing me.
GOLDBERG: Well, you know, they do you one way or another.
BEHAR: Oh, they certainly do. Let`s talk about "The View." You came into The View, I think it was last year, right?
GOLDBERG: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: After a rather volatile year on "The View."
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: Did you have any misgivings about coming in when things - - things had been pretty, how shall I put this uncomfortable for some people and strange and interesting.
GOLDBERG: Well, you know, I always liked "The View," as you know. I always felt that I -- I felt that I could fit in some way there. And so when it came possible to come on, you know, I knew that or I believed the expectations of me coming on are low.
BEHAR: You think so?
GOLDBERG: Oh yes. You know because I, you know, once you have had someone who makes, you know, your ratings go up and skyrocket, you know, you can`t expect that every time you get someone to come in - so.
BEHAR: Well controversy will bring the ratings in.
GOLDBERG: Apparently some.
BEHAR: But we have kept them up.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: They are up since you came.
GOLDBERG: And you know we are having a good time. And we are having a good time. You know we can -- we can be controversial and confrontational and then the next moment, you know, we are talking about breast feeding. You know --
BEHAR: Yes, it is just --
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: But the thing about it is that, you know, we get into trouble sometimes with things that we say over there. Quite a bit.
GOLDBERG: Yeah.
BEHAR: Yes but isn`t that a comedian`s job is to get in trouble with things we say in a way? We are supposed to say what the truth is to us.
GOLDBERG: Well you know your truth may be different from my truth and might truth might be different from somebody else`s, but the key thing is the show is called "The View,"
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: So everyone has one.
BEHAR: Mm-hmm.
GOLDBERG: So if you are mad at that or you are mad at this, the issue with it really is, you know, I`ve found that people hear but they don`t listen.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
GOLDBERG: You know, they don`t -- they don`t listen to what you are saying. They are not putting it in context. They are just responding to something that they think you have said. So, I --
BEHAR: That`s true.
GOLDBERG: Now that I understand that even if I know what I said, someone else will interpret however they need to interpret it.
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDBERG: And sometimes they write and say, you know, really garish stuff. And you know, sometime these say things that are just kind of like, what -- what show were you watching?
BEHAR: I know. But you know, they can perpetuate the big lie very often in the media now and they get into trouble.
GOLDBERG: Well you know, that`s been happening for the last five or six years. You know, once you put it out there, it`s there forever. So one of the things that we do is try to be really accurate
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDBERG: About the things we say and if we are not sure we say --
BEHAR: We correct it.
GOLDBERG: We are not sure, but we think this is what`s going on because these days in the media, once you put it out there it`s out there for life. For life.
BEHAR: Well I just want to you know, we have to go I want to you know that I always wanted you on "The View."
GOLDBERG: I know.
BEHAR: I always thought you would be good on "The View" and so happy to have a friendship with you now.
GOLDBERG: Joy Behar.
BEHAR: I mean it, I`m serious. Thanks for joining me, Whoopi. Buy her new book "Sugar Plum Ballerina" and pick up Whoopi`s Big Book Of Manners in paperback. Good night, everybody.
END
