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Jay Leno Breaks Silence; What Made Elizabeth Edwards Leave?; Interview With Ted and Gayle Haggard

Aired January 28, 2010 - 21:00   ET



LARRY KING, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the late night wars land Leno on "Oprah."

OPRAH WINFREY, TV HOST: So you thought one cheap shot deserved another?


WINFREY: You know what? I thought that was beneath you actually.

KING: Jay is returning as host of "The Tonight Show." But can he reclaim his ratings and his nice guy reputation?

WINFREY: Now you're being made to look like the bad guy?

LENO: I am going to work hard to try and rehabilitate that image.

KING: And Elizabeth and John Edwards have split. She stood by her cheating political husband for three years. Even met his out-of- wedlock little daughter. What made her call it quits now?

Then a gay, sex and drug scandal destroyed Ted Haggard's megachurch ministry and devastated the family. Why did his wife, Gayle, choose to forgive and stay married?

All that and an amazing musical pairing, next on LARRY KING LIVE.


KING: You all know the story. Conan O'Brien left NBC after a very public battle with the network. Jay Leno was set to return as host of "The Tonight Show," and once again today he spoke publicly about what happened.

Joining us to discuss it all, Tom Shales, the "Washington Post" TV columnist, wrote a book a while back, "Live from New York." Terrific read about a lot of this.

Jerry Penacoli, correspondent from "Extra", is here. And also Dick Cavett, the former "Tonight Show" writer for Jack Par and Johnny Carson, host of his own late night talk show back then.

Jay was on "Oprah" today. Here's what he had to say about Conan.


WINFREY: Have you talked to Conan in person since all this?

LENO: No, I haven't.

WINFREY: Did you want to pick up the phone?

LENO: Yes, but it didn't seem appropriate.


LENO: I don't know. I think -- let things cool down and maybe we'll talk.

WINFREY: Do you feel bad for Conan at any point?

LENO: I did. I felt really bad for Conan. I think it's unfair, but TV is not fair. I thought it was unfair for me.

WINFREY: You felt that for Conan but you didn't think you caused -- you were the reason that he was...

LENO: No. I wasn't the reason. The reason were the ratings.

WINFREY: Mm-hmm.


KING: All right. Tom Shales, who is probably now the dean of American television critics, what do you make of all this?

TOM SHALES, TV COLUMNIST, WASHINGTON POST: What can be made of it other than it's a horrible, horrible mess? I don't think 20 years ago when Dick Cavett was on the air or lesser time than that, we would have had this kind of public airing of this stuff where they would come out on their own shows and bad mouth one another and bad mouth the network.

It's all gotten very public and there's no kind of backstage anymore. But then television never really did have a backstage. It's all been sort of out in the open there. Not to this degree, though. And I...

KING: Jerry, does anyone come out looking good?

JERRY PENACOLI, CORRESPONDENT, "EXTRA": You know, I think at this point Letterman looks pretty good.


PENACOLI: Seriously.

KING: But he's been taken them on every night.

PENACOLI: Yes. No, but I think seriously, though, you know, this is all about business and this is what we're forgetting. Back when the decision was made in 2004 that Jay Leno would not be doing the "Tonight Show" in 2009, I mean, think about that.

That decision was made five years before. The guy had to do his show for five years knowing there was an expiration date. Both guys are very funny. Both guys are very different. Both guys are going to be OK.

KING: Dick, I want you to watch this clip and then comment. Here, Oprah asks Jay if he's been selfish.


LENO: This is almost the perfect storm of bad things happening. You have two hit shows, "Tonight Show," number one, "Conan," number one. You both -- you move them both to another situation.

And what are the odds that both would do extremely poorly? Now, if Conan's numbers had been a little bit higher, it wouldn't be an issue. But in show business there's always somebody waiting in the wing.

WINFREY: Because if Conan's numbers had been higher you would have never been asked to go back to take the time slot.

LENO: I never expected this to happen.


KING: Dick, do you think that Jay should have turned down taking back a job that Conan only had for seven months?

DICK CAVETT, FMR. LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: I don't have any reason to think so. Jay is too smart not to have smelled a rat from the very beginning. Not just five years ago where they told him, in effect, we can do without you.

But in knowing, as he has said, as I think I have seen, going at 10:00 never seemed like a terribly great idea. And of course it wasn't. I mean, the whole thing is one of the dumbest things that ever happen in the media since Arthur Godfrey fired Julius La Rosa on the air and fringed his own career.

KING: Yes.

CAVETT: And -- I don't know. We were on about this before, weren't we, Larry? And I wonder if I had said to you then at the height of the frenzy that I could see NBC from the window here and they put out a banner saying mission accomplished.

KING: Tom, did Conan do the right thing, do you think?

SHALES: I think as much as he could, he didn't have much latitude either way. I mean what else could he have done? And if he is walking away with $40 million and a contract to do a sitcom for NBC, which is another little irony of all this, you know, they all hate each other but they'll do business with each other even so.

It's a kind of a crazy bunch of contradictions and ironies in this thing. But yes, I think Conan -- I think Conan of all of them looks the least culpable in this. He seems like mostly -- more the victim certainly than Jay who doesn't have a victim's bone in his body, I don't think. And...

CAVETT: Isn't this something -- Tom, isn't this something -- maybe this is what you already said. Of the idea that people go around saying, why, they didn't keep their word. People keep their word all through show business except when money rears its head and then word goes out the nearest window.

SHALES: Exactly.


KING: Do you think -- Jerry, do you think Leno can top Letterman again going back?

PENACOLI: You know, anything can happen at this point. But I think that the huge variable here is where and if Conan shows up on another late night show. You know...

KING: Don't you think he will?

PENACOLI: Well, I mean, there's a good chance, I mean, the talk is that he could end up at FOX. There's a big problem there. The affiliates -- the FOX affiliates need a lot of convincing because they make a lot of money in late night syndication.

KING: In late night shows. Yes.

PENACOLI: So the pot has to be sweetened there for them.

KING: Tom...

PENACOLI: Yes, I mean there's obviously a chance that Leno can recoup that audience.

KING: Tom, where do you think Conan lines up?

SHALES: Where does he line up?

KING: Yes.

SHALES: Maybe on a cable network. You know they haven't really made inroads into late night TV very much. And he could be the first cable star in late night -- you know, present company exempted. But you don't do the kind of talk show that Conan does.


SHALES: I walked right into the wall there.

KING: No, so wouldn't it make sense for him to go to Comedy Central?

SHALES: Or something like it, exactly.

KING: Yes.

SHALES: And also he would be less censored. He would have more latitude on the cable network and that might give him an advantage in a way. But I think Jay is damaged goods. I don't think the public is going to flock back in anything like the numbers that they used to have.

CAVETT: That's ironic, isn't it? That they reduced their man, enhanced Dave Letterman.

SHALES: Right.

CAVETT: The enemy.

SHALES: Right.

CAVETT: Boosted his ratings. And...


KING: The only way to sum this up is the inmates are running the asylum.

Tom Shales, Jerry Penacoli, Dick Cavett, thank you. Good seeing you.

PENACOLI: Thank you.


KING: John and Elizabeth Edwards have separated after 32 years of marriage just a wee after he publicly announced he's the father of his mistress' child. After years of sticking by him, what was Elizabeth's final breaking point?

We're going to find out right after this.


KING: Elizabeth and John Edwards have split up, first revealed on this program by John Edwards's former top aide last week. But wait until you see "People" magazine tomorrow. There's the cover. It all is about the breakup.

Galina Espinoza, the senior editor of "People," is with us in New York and Roy Sekoff, the founding editor of the, is with us in Los Angeles.

Here's the statement a spokesperson issues today. "Elizabeth is moving on with her life and wants to put this difficult chapter behind her. It was an excruciatingly painful period for her. And she has no interest in rehashing the past. Based on the limited portions of the book that have been made available it is clear it contains many falsehoods and exaggerations. She will not engage in a dialogue on each of the false charges but would like to set the record straight on two key points.

"First, the allegation that she sought to politicize her cancer is unconscionable, hurtful and patently false. Second, she believed Andrew Young to be the father of this child until her husband confessed his paternity to her this past summer. She had nothing further to say."

The book she referred to is Andrew Young's just released, "The Politician."

All right, Galina, the cover story says "Elizabeth's Breaking Point." The breaking point was what?

GALINA ESPINOZA, SENIOR EDITOR, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Well, you know, Larry, this separation has been a long time coming. Over the past three years Elizabeth has had to deal with one tawdry revelation after another coming out, one lie after another being uncovered. And she finally said, you know what, I am done. I've had it. I can't do this anymore.

KING: This should not be surprising, Roy, is it?

ROY SEKOFF, FOUNDING EDITOR, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: Larry, remember when the worst thing that they said about John Edwards was that he spent too much on a haircut?

KING: Correct.

SEKOFF: Those were the good days. I mean Maureen Dowd used to call him the "Breck girl," now he's like the "Breck boy."

KING: What happened to him?

SEKOFF: Larry, I mean, it's like a Greek tragedy or a bad telenovella. I mean this guy has become the poster child for hubris ambition and hypocrisy. Don't forget. When he was a senator he trashed Bill Clinton for his affair with Monica Lewinsky, and then he turns around and he makes the sex tape with his pregnant girlfriend while his wife has cancer?

I mean how far can you fall?

KING: Did you talk to Elizabeth, Galina? Did "People' talk to her directly?

ESPINOZA: We talked to Elizabeth's sister as well as to John's parents, both about how Elizabeth has been coping and what the relationship of John is with this baby daughter that he fathered with Rielle Hunter. KING: What is the relationship?

ESPINOZA: Well, in fact, John has been paying child support for about a year now and he also has a visitation arrangement in place. He intends to be a full father to this child and to raise her as he did his other children.

SEKOFF: But Larry, that came two years late. I mean, the baby was born two years ago this February and for denying the paternity for so long, you know, and even his confession -- when he made the big confession on "Nightline," that was a lie. He said, you know, it was impossible.

KING: Why do you think she stayed?

SEKOFF: You know, I mean, I think she had invested a lot in this guy, Larry. And you know, I mean, that's the sad thing. There was so much between them. You know, this connection with the son dying in the car accident before and then all of the struggles to have the two younger kids. It's just -- you know, it's really a horrible story.

KING: Galina, she gets it rough in the bestseller, "Game Change," which is the number-one book in the country now. They are not kind in Elizabeth at all.

Does she discuss that or does her sister discuss that with you?

ESPINOZA: She doesn't discuss that at all. I mean she's really trying to move forward with her life. But John is the one who has told those closest to him that, you know what, you can drag me through the mud, but leave Elizabeth out it. She does not deserve this at all. Pick on me all you want but leave Elizabeth alone.

KING: She wrote the book "Resilience." She appeared on this program.


KING: She's a wonderful guest.


KING: Is this a facade? Is this -- we know John was.


KING: Is Elizabeth partly...

SEKOFF: You know, Larry -- you know, last night Obama in his State of the Union address talked about the things that create cynicism? And it's stories like this. I mean what do we believe anymore? I mean, you know, I mean, she's a very sympathetic figure but at some point she has to accept some complicity in the fact that throughout the campaign she lied to the American people. She was a party to lying to the voters.

KING: Galina, do you know where John is living now?

ESPINOZA: Yes. John is actually splitting his time between an annex on the couple's property in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, but also at their beach house which is his main residence.

He is not sharing a home with Elizabeth. She has kicked him out.

KING: What's the reaction to her in the blogs, in the chatrooms, in the -- on "Huffington Post"? Does she retain her popularity?

SEKOFF: You know, not as much. I mean, certainly she's a sympathetic figure. I mean she has stage 4 cancer. It's -- you know, it's hard. But I think people are really -- this is the kind of story where nobody comes out good.

I mean John Edwards obviously comes out horribly.

KING: Yes.

SEKOFF: In this book Rielle Hunter comes up sorry. She was cussing out Andrew Young when he told her that John Edwards had to fly back when Elizabeth was re-diagnosed with cancer. You know, but even Elizabeth doesn't come out smelling like a rose either.

KING: What's Andrew Young's story, Galina?

ESPINOZA: Well, he was definitely a close confidant of John Edwards. He was a trusted intimate, you know, and if you believe his claims he was really the guy that John turned to when he needed help the most.

KING: And he asked him to take the rap for him.

SEKOFF: Yes, he said, you know, take a bullet for me and he did. I mean, here's the weird part, Larry. Remember, he actually had Rielle move in with his wife and children in that house in North Carolina. So that was like some kind of strange sitcom.

KING: Galina, what would have happened if he were elected president?

ESPINOZA: Oh, gosh, I think it would have been disastrous. Because, you know, the thing we've learned is that in this day and age you cannot keep these sorts of things quiet. And I think what's amazing about all of this is that John Edwards actually thought that he somehow could.

KING: The Pulitzer Committee won't consider the "National Enquirer" because they call it a magazine the way it comes out. Do they deserve it, though?

SEKOFF: I mean that's the amaze thing about the story. That we're actually discussing the "National Enquirer".

KING: They broke it. SEKOFF: They broke it and they stayed on it and they were relentless. You know, actually the "Huffington Post" had the first story about it when we discovered the tapes that Rielle had shot. And then they took them down. They suddenly disappeared. Sam Stein wrote that first. But eventually they stayed on it.

KING: "People" magazine will be out tomorrow. "Elizabeth's Breaking Point."

Thank you, both. Galina Espinoza, senior editor, and Roy Sekoff, founding editor of the

Preacher Ted Haggard shocked his wife and his congregation by admitting drug use and being with a gay escort. More than three years later they're still together.

Why did she forgive him? We'll ask her in 60 seconds.


KING: A 2006 gay, sex and drug scandal destroyed Ted Haggard's New Life megachurch Ministry. He told his wife he was toxic and she should divorce him. But after three decades of marriage and five kids Gayle Haggard chose to go on loving her husband and forgave him.

She chronicles her decision in an extraordinary new book, "Why I Stayed: The Choices I Made in My Darkest Hour." The book is right here. There you see its cover.

This program is included in the book, by the way, as they made an appearance on this show. And they join us here tonight.

Gayle, why did you write this?

GAYLE HAGGARD, WIFE OF TED HAGGARD: I felt as though there was so much misinformation out. First of all, I wanted to correct that and I wanted to represent myself and my family in my story. Secondly I felt as though it's such an amazing story that might give hope to some people in similar situations.

KING: What was the biggest misinformation?

G. HAGGARD: Well, I think there was a lot of misinformation about what Ted actually did. Ted had taken several lie detector tests that were never reported as he was trying to prove what was true and what was false in the allegations that were made against him.

KING: But nonetheless he did confess things to you?

G. HAGGARD: He did confess. And he told me early on that some of the allegations were true. But he wanted to sort out what was actually fact and what was just -- came from the imagination of some of the accusers.

KING: The essence of what was fact, Ted, were you did have some gay experiences, right? TED HAGGARD, FORMER PASTOR, NEW LIFE CHURCH: Yes. And the reason I responded the way I did was because my faith says that if you violate any portion of the law you violate all of it. And so rather than to get in to tit for tat of what I did do and what I didn't do, even though the charges were grossly exaggerated, I wanted to submit to the church.

I wanted to be humble. I wanted to be submissive. I wanted to be kind and I wanted to model personal responsibility.

KING: Did you preach against gays?

T. HAGGARD: Not in a hateful way, certainly, and not in a way other than saying I believe God has a perfect plan for our life and every one of us need to strive for that perfect plan...

KING: But it didn't...

T. HAGGARD: ... in every area of our life.

KING: During any of this did you feel hypocritical?

T. HAGGARD: I felt hypocritical in that whenever you teach the scripture you teach ideals. Pray continually. Love people always. Always forgive. Things like that. And so inherent in that is teaching an ideal and in the struggle, yourself, to live up to that ideal.

KING: Why did you forgive him, Gayle?

G. HAGGARD: Because I knew that he was more than this struggle. I knew that we had spent almost 30 years together and there was so much to salvage in our relationship that was worth fighting for.

I knew that my faith instructed me to -- how to heal with him, how to forgive him, how to love him, and so I depended on those principles of scripture to do that.

KING: Are you surprised at what Elizabeth Edwards did?

G. HAGGARD: You know, I am not surprised. I certainly don't know all the details of their story and having been the recipient of all kinds of judgments based on misinformation I wouldn't want to jump into that one.

I just -- I feel badly that they're going through what they're going through.

KING: Did you consider divorce?

G. HAGGARD: I never considered divorce.

KING: Never -- does that shock you, Ted? You'd totally divorce her.

T. HAGGARD: It does. It does because I was absolutely convinced that she and the children would be better off without me. In an unusual situation, in our case, because of the way I'd lived my life with the church and everything, they would be better off financially and certainly better off reputation wise if they would have separated from me.

And so for them to stay with me, for Gayle and the children to stay with me meant that they would -- well, I told them, we'll probably be in abject poverty the rest of our life and we will never recover from the shame.

KING: Did you think of leaving, yourself, then?

T. HAGGARD: Yes. Well, never in the form of divorce. I got so low that I became suicidal there for a while and what's important that's in the book that Gayle covers so well is the decisions that she made that were very difficult and heart-wrenching for she and the children.

Those decisions provide an environment within which I could be healed. And I think if they wouldn't have made the decisions that they made then I couldn't have made the decision I made and that's why -- I didn't read the book until after it was finished.

I didn't participate in the writing of the book. And I was shocked. I thought -- when I finished I cried and then I said, Gayle Haggard is a combination of Mother Teresa and Margaret Thatcher and Golda Meir.


T. HAGGARD: She's a strong woman with compassion and love.

KING: We're going to ask Gayle when we come back what was the hardest thing to forgive. The book is "Why I Stayed: The Choices I Made in My Darkest Hour." The author is Gayle Haggard here with her husband, Ted. We'll be right back.


KING: We're back with Gayle and Ted Haggard. Hardest thing to forgive?

G. HAGGARD: I think the hardest thing for me was dealing with the fact that Ted had not been truthful with me. I was willing to go through whatever struggles he was facing. I just wanted to know the truth. In fact, I said I don't care how painful it is. I would rather live the truth than a lie.

KING: Was it hard to, frankly, lie down with him knowing he had had a gay experience?

G. HAGGARD: You know, I write about that in the book. And most people find that the most interesting segment where I talk about having to work through that. And that very first night I had to make that decision and I remember coming up to the bedroom thinking through everything that I was hearing and all the implications of what my husband had confessed to me.

And when I got in to bed, of course, it was quiet and suddenly he reached out his hand for me, and when he did that, that was my point of decision and I decided to take his hand.

KING: You now have a normal physical relationship? The two of you?

G. HAGGARD: We never stopped having a normal physical relationship. You know we did -- we have our whole marriage. And I would say now what is so wonderful is the intimacy that we have on all levels of our marriage.

KING: Have you stopped all desires for same-sex encounters?

T. HAGGARD: Yes. It was interesting because that's what was confusing because I was such a heterosexual. And then for this experience to happen was shocking. And that's what caused the confusion that was in the HBO documentary, "Trials of Ted Haggard."

And -- but then once I got into therapy they said listen, that relates to a childhood traumatic incident. We can put you through trauma resolution therapy and that will give you the tools to deal with it and that's why my situation is different than a homosexual man dealing with issues or a bisexual...

KING: Surely you can't condemn homosexuality?

T. HAGGARD: I do not. I think all of us -- all of us -- need redemption.

KING: On the day after he confessed to his family a TV interview, I spoke with Ted as he, Gayle and several of their children were pulling out of their driveway. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The voice expert in Denver that was hired by KUSA...


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: ... has matched now 18 of the words left on the voicemail message.

T. HAGGARD: Yes. I did call him. I did call him.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And what did you call him about?

T. HAGGARD: I called him to buy some meth, but I threw it away.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And who were you buying the meth for?

T. HAGGARD: No one -- I was buying it for me but I never used it.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you ever used meth before?

T. HAGGARD: No, I have not.


T. HAGGARD: And I did not ever use it with him.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And did you ever have sex with him?

T. HAGGARD: No, I did not.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And at what point did you decide to throw away the meth?

T. HAGGARD: Right after. I never kept it very long because it's -- it was wrong. I was tempted. I bought it. But I never used it.


KING: Do you have anger toward the man that revealed this...

T. HAGGARD: No, I don't. I'm grateful to him. I think if he wouldn't have come out the way he did, even though he exaggerated things -- if he wouldn't have come out I could have become an addict.

And when I did that, I lied in two interviews after the crisis started to break. I just couldn't grasp that it was really happening and I was scared of legal prosecution at that point.

And so I lied in two interviews. And then Gayle and I had our meeting where I said, I'm going to tell you the whole truth and I'm going to take full responsibility for this and walk through that process. That's what we've been doing for the last three years.

KING: More with the Haggards in a moment. Now it's time for our CNN Hero of the week.

This week we want to acknowledge one of our 2008 heroes who's right now bringing much needed supplies and hopes to thousands of Haitians struggling after that earthquake.

Tonight we salute Tom Henderson and his disaster relief organization, Shelter Box.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: More than 1 million people have been left homeless. That's one in nine Haitians. That's what motivates 2008 CNN Hero Tom Henderson and his Shelter Box team. Since 2001 they've helped thousands of disaster victims around the globe by thinking inside the box.

TOM HENDERSON, SHELTER BOX: It really describes itself. It's shelter in a box. Prepackaged aid delivered in a box. Blankets, cooking pots and pans. A 10-person tent.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twelve minutes after the Haiti earthquake the Shelter Box crew sprang into action.

HENDERSON: The logistical challenges of getting the boxes from here into Haiti have been an absolute nightmare. Infrastructures virtually non-existent.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When boxes finally arrived last week, the impact was immediate. For Henderson, that's the whole idea.

HENDERSON: If you've lost everything, it's all about shelter, warmth, comfort and dignity. That's what shelter box is.



KING: we're back be Gayle and Ted Haggard. This extraordinary book is titled "Why I Stayed: The Choices I Made in my Darkest Hour." We're going to take a call from Olgonquit (ph), Maine. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry, my question is to Gayle. If Ted's affair had been with a woman, would she had stayed in the relationship?

G. HAGGARD: I do -- I would have stayed in the relationship, but I think there would have been a whole other set of emotions that I would have had to deal with.

KING: Harder?

G. HAGGARD: I don't know that it would have been harder. It would have just been different. Many women have told me they think that would have been harder. I think -- I wouldn't know until I had to face that.

KING: Ted, your church kind of deserted you, didn't they? They didn't want this book to be published. They were angry at you.

T. HAGGARD: Well, they wanted me to leave and be quiet. I have got resurrection life inside of me and so does Gayle. We're thankful to be where we are now.

KING: How do you earn a living?

T. HAGGARD: We travel and speak on weekends, and we thoroughly enjoy that.

KING: You get paid?

T. HAGGARD: We don't charge a fee. But if they choose to give us a gift in exchange for being there, we accept that. That's what we live off.

KING: You don't go to a house of worship?

T. HAGGARD: We don't. We're not currently members of a church. That's right. We're sad about that. That's where we are right now, because we're traveling most weekends. And it's thrilling, the churches we go to. Every church we've been to has been incredible.

KING: All denominations?

T. HAGGARD: All different denominations and all different sizes. But there are two things about them. One is they have a practical application of the gospel. They really apply the gospel and are helpful. Two, they have courage to invite a sinner like me.

KING: Gayle, do you ever doubt your faith?

G. HAGGARD: I haven't doubted my faith in this process, but I have redefined it --

KING: From what to what?

G. HAGGARD: Early on, I was so satisfied with my faith walk, and felt as though my life was just wonderful. Everything that was in my marriage, my family, seemed to be going very well for me. Then I went through this very dark time, where I felt as though there was nothing good. All the people around me seemed to be failing me. I felt like all the solid ground I once stood on felt like shifting sand to me.

But I held on by a thread, because I really trusted that God was going to show me my way through that. And I believe he did.

KING: Take another call. Charlotte, North Carolina, for the Haggards. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry.


CALLER: Mr. and Mrs. Haggard, I just wanted to know, did god tell you to smoke Crystal Meth and have a homosexual affair?

T. HAGGARD: No, God did not do that. That was me, the worst part of me.

KING: You said during the break that Tiger Woods' wife ought to read this book.

T. HAGGARD: I know the Woods family is going through horrible pain right now. We went through a three-week intensive that Gayle talks about in the book.

KING: You went in together?

T. HAGGARD: We went through it together. That's where they discovered childhood trauma issues that we could take care of and help me. And if the reports are true that Tiger is going through that right now, well, I know he loves his wife and loves his children. And some of the principles in that book are just outstanding. I've never read them in print before.

And I would encourage anyone that's interested in a strong, healthy, vibrant relationship to read Gayle's book. I was taken aback. I know Gayle well. I was taken aback when I read it.

KING: What would you say, Gayle, to Mrs. Woods?

G. HAGGARD: I would try to encourage her that if Tiger is truly repentant -- and that's something between the two of them -- if she feels as though he is, that perhaps she can find it in her heart to forgive him and to love him. However, I would never try to project on her what that would look like for her.

KING: We'll ask about their take on gay marriage when we come back. Don't go away.


KING: We're back with the Haggards. The book "Why I Stayed." Gay marriage?

T. HAGGARD: Well, I think there ought to be a quality for all. I think marriage is the church's business and synagogues and religious institutions. Probably the easiest route would be for states to accept civil unions for people, whether they be secular or spiritual. And if people want to go to a church or synagogue or religious institution --

KING: State shouldn't be in the marriage business?

T. HAGGARD: States shouldn't be in the marriage business at all. The state should be in the recognition of union business, so there's equality for all.

KING: We have a Twitter question, Tweeted to KingsThings and Ted. You lied to your wife and your church. Do you lie to god?

HAGGARD: I don't think you can. Well, if you lie to god, then, of course, he helps you straighten that out real fast. The holy spirit is given to us to make in us a holy spirit. And so when we lie to god, he convicts us. He corrects us. Because he wants us to be better.

KING: We received tons of Twitters all in the same essence. Do you believe someone can be cured, if that's the right word, or counseled out of being gay?

T. HAGGARD: I don't know anything about that. That just wasn't my story. Gayle explains that in the book, that my story was just a different story than that.

KING: What were the childhood things? Can you --

T. HAGGARD: When I was in the second grade, one of my dad's employees had sex with me. But it wasn't a traumatic experience, I didn't think. But it formed the way my mind processed things. And so then, when I became a grown man, I'd always had a normal heterosexual relationship with Gayle that was wonderful and normal heterosexual attractions, but this other thing going on.

KING: What was going on? What were you saying to yourself? What were you thinking?

T. HAGGARD: There would be times --

KING: Since you didn't relate to the childhood trauma. That came out in counseling.

T. HAGGARD: Exactly. There would be times -- it wasn't very often. I was perfectly fine 99.999 percent of the time. But there would be times when I would notice men.

KING: Did you wonder about why am I noticing them?

T. HAGGARD: Absolutely. Yeah. And so -- I wondered what it was. It wasn't normal. I would read things about homosexuality or bisexuality and I didn't fit in those boxes. That's why, when Gayle had to decide how to respond to me, which she describes in the book, it was a complex process for her to go through.

KING: Gayle, it must have floored you to learn this.

G. HAGGARD: Well, certainly, on many levels, it was devastating to me. I started on the path of a real education on the subject, something that I --

KING: Started to look into it?

G. HAGGARD: I really did. And I learned so much about the diversity of our human makeup. And all of us are the way we are for a reason. And I learned that things happen in our lives that condition us in our sexuality. Certainly, I believe -- I do believe what the scriptures teach about homosexuality. I do believe it is not God's best plan for us.

However, I think we need to be compassionate with each other, because all of us are the way we are for a reason. None of us chooses to have the particular difficulties that may spring up in our lives, but they are us and we have to deal with it.

KING: Brendan in Georgia. Another call, hello.

CALLER: Thanks for taking my call. Ted, do you really believe that you are cured from your gayness?

KING: Well, if gayness is a problem.

T. HAGGARD: That's just a different story than mine is.

KING: Your story is your story. Do you think it will never happen again?

T. HAGGARD: Here's what I think. I think I've gotten healthier. And I think growth in life is a process of dealing with issues that happen to us and trying to remain as healthy as we can. I've become more of the man I wanted to be. I believe I'm more of the man God wants me to be. And I'm a healthier man.

KING: We'll be back with more of Gayle Haggard and her husband, Ted. The book, "Why I Stayed." Don't go away.



KING: Another call for the Haggards. Boca Raton, Florida. Hello.

CALLER: Hey, Larry, how are you?

KING: Fine, what's the question?

CALLER: I've watched you over the past couple years, and I've found that you've become very arrogant and narcissistic in your line of questioning. I think you should show the pastors a little more respect. My question for the Haggards is --

KING: I'm sorry.

CALLER: -- how have they rekindled their relationship?

KING: How have they what, sir?

CALLER: How have they rekindled their relationship?

KING: Gayle, you write about it. what was the key of rekindling it? I'm asking that in a harsh manner.

G. HAGGARD: I think we make a choice to love someone. And when I chose to love Ted, that -- that brought with it all kinds of compassion and a desire to understand him, and to be there for him, to be his friend, to care for him. And so that's been ongoing in this process.

KING: Sylvester, Georgia, hello.

CALLER: Yes. I'd like to ask Ted what his take on homosexuality is? My Bible says it's a sin.

T. HAGGARD: Yeah. What I encourage people to do is read their Bibles and pray about it and come to the conclusions about God's best plan for their life. I'm not in a position to preach to anybody else.

KING: Do you think it's a choice?

T. HAGGARD: Oh, yeah. Well, I think --

KING: Why would someone choose --

T. HAGGARD: I think some things in our life are choices. Other things in our life are not. I actually think it's different in different people, because -- depending on what's going on in their lives --

KING: We don't choose heterosexuality, do we? t. HAGGARD: We don't choose our height. We don't choose our eye color. We don't choose a lot of things. But there are other things we do choose. We choose to whom we're sexually active, with whom we're sexually active. We choose how much we eat. We choose how much we exercise.

KING: I don't choose that I like bananas and don't like eggs. I didn't choose that.

T. HAGGARD: What's fascinating right now is they're doing a lot of research on why that is, why preferences are established in the brain, why one person likes strawberry ice cream one minute and chocolate another.

KING: We don't know why someone is gay and why someone is --

T. HAGGARD: We don't, but we probably will in 50 or 60 years. So I encourage people, rather than me telling them -- I'm not an authority. I'm the sinner. So read your Bible. Pray and come to the conclusion.

By the way, let me say one more thing about the earlier caller. When I was in my darkest hour, suffering horribly, Larry King called me and encouraged me on my little cell phone. He's not arrogant. He's not high minded. He was loving to he and my family. And we appreciate it.

KING: Thank you. I urge you to get this book. It's an important book. Congratulations on it, Gayle.

G. HAGGARD: Thank you.

KING: Good seeing you again.

T. HAGGARD: Good to see you.

KING: Make this the first of many trips. The book "Why I Stayed: The Choices I Made in My Darkest Hour." Musical superstars Mary J. Blige and Andrea Bocelli are here with the famed music producer David Foster making a big announcement. Stay tuned to find out how they are helping Haiti, next.


KING: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. Joining us now, Mary J. Blige, the nine-time Grammy winning recording artist, and Andrea Bocelli, the world renowned tenor, along with David Foster, 15-time Grammy winning music producer. They have an announcement to make. You make it, David.

DAVID FOSTER, GRAMMY WINNING PRODUCER: We got together the 40th anniversary of the song "Bridge Over Troubled Water." Ken Ehrlich (ph), the producer of the Grammys, picked this song for Mary and Andrea to sing as a tribute to that song and also a tribute to raise funds for what's happening in Haiti. And it's been in labor of love with these two great but diverse voices. KING: They'll sing it on the Grammys Sunday night?

FOSTER: They will, yes.

KING: How does it benefit Haiti?

FOSTER: All proceeds from Steve Jobs, Target, Interscope Records, Warner Records, everybody is donating 100 percent to the Red Cross for Haiti relief.

KING: Mary, have you sung with Andrea before?

MARY J. BLIGE, GRAMMY AWARD SINGER: Yes, I have, on his Christmas album. We did "What Child Is This," the duet on his album.

KING: What's it like to sing with him?

BLIGE: It's amazing. It's a blessing. It's a gift.

KING: A challenge?

BLIGE: He's remarkable. It's absolutely a challenge. It's so different for me. I'm so happy, so honored.

KING: Andrea, you are so famous in the world of opera. Is "Bridge Over Troubled Waters" difficult for you?

ANDREA BOCELLI, TENOR: This is a beautiful song. Very beautiful song. But I think that, in this case. it's a very important song, because we know that there are many, many children suffering in Haiti, and this is the first reason for which I'm here.

I love this country. I like very, very much to sing with Mary J. Blige. But I know that, all together, we can do big things for many children suffering in this moment. This is the most important thing.

KING: David, it must be quite -- first, as a producer, to bring these two together. You produced the Christmas album.

FOSTER: I did, for Andrea, where Mary sang with Andrea. I had help with my friend Lon Farren (ph). He and Ken kind of brain childed this project. When you take these two voices, they're so different. so to find the common ground is --


FOSTER: It took a while to crack the code, but we did. It's such an important project. I mean, you know, I mean to talk about Haiti now is almost redundant. It's such a problem down there.

KING: The song is 40 years old?

FOSTER: Forty, which makes you and I, Larry, a lot older.

KING: The song's older than you, Mary.


KING: You must know this song from your childhood.

BLIGE: Absolutely. My mom used to play the Aretha version -- the Aretha Franklin version when I was a child. And I used to listen to it with her when she played it, and sneak in and listen to it when she wasn't around.

KING: Does it have great meaning to you, Andrea?

BOCELLI: What's that?

KING: To sing it? Does it have great meaning to sing the song?

BOCELLI: I remember when I was a child, I knew already this song, and I sang also this song in the piano bar when I was younger.

KING: In the piano bar?


FOSTER: Can you imagine Andrea Bocelli in a piano bar?

BOCELLI: During the university, I played in the piano bar all the evening. With the money, I bought many, many keyboards. It was my passion.

KING: Why don't we go to a karaoke bar together?

FOSTER: What I love about these two singers is they're so fearless. They'll do anything. They are such different walks of life musically, but they come together beautifully. That's the true mark of a superstar.

KING: How has the Haiti story affected you, Mary?

BLIGE: Very heavily, because it's like a two-our plane ride away, Haiti. So it is home. It's affecting me. Not to the extreme it is affecting them, but I have to put myself in their shoes to understand their pain. It is home. You know, I am them.

KING: How is the concert tour going? Andrea has one that is sold out everywhere, right?

FOSTER: Yes, we did a Christmas tour together. And now more projects coming. Hopefully, I'll be involved with Mary and Andrea in the future. I love working with both of them. It's a thrill. Can you imagine sitting there and getting paid to listen to these voices?

KING: Have you got a tour coming?

BLIGE: I definitely have a tour coming. When? Probably this spring sometime.

KING: Are you going to record more, Andrea, with female singers?

BOCELLI: I like it. I record only with female singers.

FOSTER: Mary, you have an album out right now, right?

BLIGE: I have an album out. It's called "Stronger With Each Tear," Larry, and it's doing each --

KING: "Stronger With Each Tear."

BLIGE: That's right. With each tear we cry, we can only get stronger, I hope.

KING: We're going to hear that song coming up now. Grammy's Sunday night. We'll see that performance.

FOSTER: The great Andrea Bocelli and Mary J. Blige.

KING: Proceeds go to Haiti.

FOSTER: The Red Cross.

KING: We have more images tonight from Haiti, set to Mary J. Blige's rendition of "Each Tear."


KING: I'm so glad I recommended to her that she sing.

A sad note, Daniel Kerrigan, the father of Olympic figure skating medalist Nancy Kerrigan, laid to rest earlier today in Massachusetts. He was 70. Nancy says her father was always there to support her and describes him as having been an extra parent for her three children. Our thoughts are with the Nancy Kerrigan family tonight.

Anderson Cooper and "AC 360" live from Haiti right now.