Return to Transcripts main page
Joy Behar Page
Mel Gibson Promotes New Movie; Interview with Tracey Ullman
Aired January 29, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Mel Gibson fresh from rehab for alcohol, anti-Semitism and "Apocalypto" is making the rounds promoting his new movie "The Edge of Darkness" -- whatever.
Then John Edwards has legally separated from his wife, Elizabeth. Does this mean he`s now free to impregnate even more women he`s not married to?
And John Edwards is not the only new baby daddy around. Reports show that schools teaching abstinence only as their sex education curriculum have a much higher rate of teen pregnancy.
All this and more starting now.
Mel Gibson has made another movie called "Edge of Darkness" and therefore is making another round of talk show appearances. Just the way Mel likes it -- another round. He seems to be representing himself as the happy jokester of the old days. So is this the beginning of a Gibson comeback?
With me now to discuss are Jeffrey Ross, comedian, author of "I Only Roast the Ones I Love"; Michelle Collins, comedian and managing editor of bestweekever.tv; and Ben Widdicombe, celebrity journalist.
He was on Jimmy Kimmel this week where he played the late night host in a fake trailer for a movie about Kimmel`s life. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jimmy.
MEL GIBSON, ACTOR: Go away. It`s Jimmy`s special spinning time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your show starts in 2 minutes. You need to go over your queue cards.
GIBSON: You know I can`t read.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok, so what is he? Is this a -- is he making a comeback, Jeff?
JEFFREY ROSS, AUTHOR, "I ONLY ROAST THE ONES I LOVE": I don`t think he needs a comeback. I asked Jimmy Kimmel about this. And he said Mel Gibson`s last movie was shot in Aramaic and still made $50 million.
BEHAR: I know it`s true.
ROSS: He never went away.
BEHAR: Who are these people who speak Aramaic? Do you know them?
MICHELLE COLLINS, BESTWEEKEVER.TV: I wish I did. I wish I hung in those Aramaic circles.
BEN WIDDICOMBE, CELEBRITY JOURNALIST: They got a lot of Libyans apparently.
BEHAR: Have you seen it?
WIDDICOMBE: No.
COLLINS: I have not.
BEHAR: Have you seen it?
ROSS: I did see -- it`s called "Apocalypto".
BEHAR: "Apocalypto".
ROSS: I though it was awesome actually.
BEHAR: You did?
ROSS: You know my whole thing with Mel Gibson is this is a guy who thought Schindler`s List was a romantic comedy, you know. To me you have to have a forgiving heart, you know.
BEHAR: Yes. Do you forgive him?
ROSS: Well, Buddy Hackett was one of the greatest comedians ever. He told me when you`re holding a grudge the other guy is out dancing. So to me, you forgive but you don`t forget.
BEHAR: I don`t forgive. Go ahead.
ROSS: You`re Italian, it`s different.
BEHAR: I`m Italian. I have Italian old timers, we forget everything but a grudge. Go ahead.
COLLINS: I don`t know. I`m happy to see Mel Gibson back. I feel like today`s slew of celebrities -- these young kids are so boring. They don`t offer a funny thing. But Mel Gibson is like crazy, he hates Jews. He actually makes it kind of fun.
I feel like you need a crazy Jew hater to show how crazy it is to hate us. Versus like, you know, if he was a normal Jew hater, that would be horrible and he might have a point. But I like Mel...
WIDDICOMBE: But he`s not sorry.
BEHAR: Do you think he hates Jews?
WIDDICOMBE: Yes, I do. I think that he said some very ugly things when he was -- whenever he`s drunk.
BEHAR: He said Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world.
WIDDICOMBE: For the wars. He told a Jewish police officer, mind you. He said this to. But you know...
BEHAR: But it`s about his father too. His father is a Holocaust denier...
COLLINS: That`s right.
WIDDICOMBE: Right.
BEHAR: ... and we`re not so sure if he doesn`t agree with daddy. That`s the real issue with him.
WIDDICOMBE: And Mel runs a very conservative Catholic Church. He literally has a church on his property in Malibu. And he decides who...
BEHAR: How quaint.
WIDDICOMBE: ... who in the congregation is allowed to be there.
BEHAR: Let`s move on to another story, which incidentally is just what Elizabeth Edwards is finally doing. This week we learned she`s now legally separated from her husband. This, after he confirmed to the world that he fathered a child with his mistress.
Ok. Michelle, are you happy that she left him finally?
COLLINS: John Edwards is single, girls. I am thrilled. My (INAUDIBLE) had a lot of fantasy. They`re finally going to come true Joy.
He`s a piece of garbage, he`s well endowed -- I don`t know but did you read that?
BEHAR: NO. Oh, this is new.
COLLINS: Oh my God. Joy, this is breaking all over.
BEHAR: Allegedly there`s a sex tape. You heard about the sex tape? And I heard on my own station tonight, something about how, you know, Rielle Hunter was a videographer and so duh.
ROSS: It was going to be shot really well.
BEHAR: So they say there`s an image of a man, his face is shown, having sex with a pregnant woman.
ROSS: She`s pregnant.
BEHAR: How low have these people gone that taking pictures of themselves having sex while pregnant? I can`t take it. That to me is -- I mean, Elizabeth Edwards, you know, is she touchy or is she -- what?
ROSS: I think now that her book tour is over it`s safe for her to dump him. That`s what she did.
BEHAR: She denies in her statement that she came out with today, the things she said -- they`re a falsehood and this guy Andrew Young`s book. And one of the things is the allegation that she sought to politicize her cancer is unconscionable, hurtful and patently false. So what you just said, she denies that.
ROSS: Yes. Well, it seems like her sickness is in remission and his political career is terminal.
BEHAR: Do you think that -- you know, she was playing very nice with the love child for a while, Elizabeth, bringing the kids gifts and everything. Isn`t that above -- would Joan Crawford do a thing like that? No.
COLLINS: No, she`s been long gone.
WIDDICOMBE: They would visit in a hotel room. She went to meet the baby, who was 23 months old at the time. And they had a mediated visit at the hotel room.
BEHAR: To meet the baby. Hello.
ROSS: You ruined my life, nice to meet you.
BEHAR: Do you believe the sex tape rumors? Because it`s only allegations...
COLLINS: I love those rumors. I have nothing else to live for right. And that he likes a pregnant woman, she`ll be like a little (INAUDIBLE) someone -- a good thing for us bigger girls...
ROSS: I think ABC just announced that John Edwards will be the bachelor this season.
BEHAR: Really? Perfect.
And this new endowment information, that`s got to play on "The Bachelor".
This has certainly been a week for people renovating their public images. Chief among the players was the commander-in-chief himself. Even though Obama was the one in the spotlight, MSNBC`s Chris Matthews managed to get quite a bit of attention too after he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC ANCHOR: He is post racial by all appearances. You know I forgot he was black tonight for an hour.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROSS: Wow.
BEHAR: Ok. What do you make of that?
ROSS: This is exactly what Thomas Jefferson said to Sally Hemmings in the barn. This is insanity.
BEHAR: What do you think he meant? I don`t think he meant any harm.
COLLINS: I don`t think -- well, he came back and apologized. He kind of explained what he meant. I was watching him do that, for a moment I forgot that he was a journalist. I was like -- but then I remembered he was white and clearly an idiot because only a white idiot would say something so stupid.
WIDDICOMBE: It also indicates other than that hour, it`s very apparent to him that the president is black. If he only forgot for one hour, then he clearly is not as post-racial as the president is.
BEHAR: Yes. Did you see the State of the Union last night?
ROSS: I watched the first 4 1/2 hours. That speech was so long 80,000 people lost their jobs during the speech.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s true.
ROSS: I grew this beard during that speech.
BEHAR: But Obama, isn`t he a gentlemen, Obama? I find him so amiable and so adorable to watch.
COLLINS: I loved him today. I felt like it was Obama`s bar mitzvah. He walked in, everyone shaking his hand. Joe Lieberman is asleep and everyone is clapping.
BEHAR: Joe Lieberman did he -- or is this maybe -- he looked like a geriatric Pillsbury dough boy?
COLLINS: Ruth Bader Ginsburg looked like Anakin Skywalker.
BEHAR: What happened to her?
COLLINS: Did you see her? She looked like she took her helmet off on the show. She literally looked Ruth "Darth Vader" Ginsburg.
BEHAR: She seems to have fallen asleep during the whole thing.
WIDDICOMBE: They didn`t have a Red Carpet for the State of the Union, don`t you think? So we can watch for the clothes.
BEHAR: Ruth Bader is very ill, so we don`t want to go after her. But she was like this at some point. I thought maybe she passed away.
(CROSSTALK)
WIDDICOMBE: Sonia Sotomayor looked like Margaret Cho sitting there.
BEHAR: Really? Sonia Sotomayor and Margaret Cho?
WIDDICOMBE: I thought they looked alike.
BEHAR: Oh really?
ROSS: You know, I forgot you were white for an hour.
BEHAR: I thought Samuel Alito looked exactly like Yoko Ono.
Ok. This is the thing about Obama. He`s so amiable that even when he called out the GOP, he looks amiable. Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We cut taxes for 8 million Americans paying for college.
I thought I would get some applause on that one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Look at this. Look at Boehner.
ROSS: Obama got 58 standing ovations, which was five more than John Edwards got during his sex tape.
BEHAR: But Nancy got up and down so much she`s going to have to put botox in her knees. Ok. Also I -- did you notice the side of the screen, did we show that already? Where there was a note passed. Look at this. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I don`t think American elections should be bankrolled by America`s most powerful interests or worse, by foreign entities. They should be decided by the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Did you see the note passed?
ROSS: What was that?
BEHAR: I don`t know, what was in that note?
ROSS: I actually heard that the note said "Go see Jeff Ross at Cobs in San Francisco February 4th."
BEHAR: That was shameless -- shameless plug. Who was that woman any way?
COLLINS: I love her. She`s like the kid in third grade, like, "Do you like Obama, circle yes or no." A little romance, something.
BEHAR: Did you watch the rebuttal?
ROSS: That was so pathetic.
BEHAR: Well, we were thinking. The last time I was talking I thought the new senator Scott Brown, the one that was in the middle of Cosmo, he should have done the rebuttal in the nude. Call it the rebuttal -- get it?
ROSS: This guy from Virginia has been on the job 11 days, that`s the best the Republicans can offer up.
BEHAR: Yes.
ROSS: The newest guy.
BEHAR: And where were Michelle`s arms? I couldn`t see her arms last night. Well, you know we love to see her arms.
COLLINS: I love her.
BEHAR: Yes.
COLLINS: Her arms -- I mean, they`re terrifying.
BEHAR: Her arms are the -- these arms. Listen you guys were great.
ROSS: You love my songs.
BEHAR: Yes, they`re ok.
The very funny and multitalented Tracey Ullman joins me next, so stick around.
Thank you guys.
WIDDICOMBE: Thank you.
BEHAR: Ok.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Security screener Chenelle Monticello (ph) is dealing with the early morning show.
TRACEY ULLMAN, EMMY AWARD-WINNING COMEDIENNE: I`ll talk the way up, I talk the way -- it isn`t in the sack, it isn`t coming back. Go on and take those shoes off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on is that really that necessary?
ULLMAN: Yes, it is. We learned in training school that you can hide a nuclear device this big inside a child`s pink Crocs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Or a bomb in your underwear for that matter.
That was Emmy Award-Winning comedienne Tracey Ullman as a bossy airline security agent in the third season premiere of her Showtime show "State of the Union." Tracey, so nice to have you here.
ULLMAN: Hello darling. Thanks Joy.
BEHAR: Now, you play so many characters on your show. My God, that no one is safe.
ULLMAN: I know, I wish you played on with that bit, because we break into a wonderful dance sort of like an homage to Michael Jackson because my choreographer Van Jone Malone (ph) who was one of the passengers there I used to be in all his videos.
BEHAR: Oh...
ULLMAN: And so we suddenly break out and dance. It was just so much fun.
BEHAR: Well, we`ll have to rent the videos. It`s probably on the DVD now, right?
ULLMAN: That was the show that premiered last night. So it`s going to be on iTunes.
BEHAR: Or Showtime on demand or something...
ULLMAN: ...iTunes -- yes...
BEHAR: Who is your favorite character, do you have one?
ULLMAN: You know, it`s ridiculous. I`m somebody for 15 minutes and I`m ready to move on. But that`s why -- if I could just think of one character to be, if I could be like Angela Lansbury in "Murder She Wrote"...
BEHAR: You`d make...
ULLMAN: You know what I mean?
BEHAR: ...you`d make a lot of money.
ULLMAN: Yes, it would be a lot calmer for me.
BEHAR: Have you -- you do some men also, right?
ULLMAN: I do. There`s nobody I wouldn`t attempt really. Yes, I did Barney Frank in this show. You know when he talks sometimes he (INAUDIBLE) his teeth in -- when he`d go -- when he`s waiting to do a question. I love Barney Frank.
BEHAR: I do too.
ULLMAN: I love his voice. I know that he loves you.
BEHAR: Yes, why does he look like he doesn`t have any teeth?
ULLMAN: I don`t know, does he? Bless him, I don`t care.
BEHAR: He`s very good, he`s very smart.
ULLMAN: Oh he`s smart.
BEHAR: And he`s always great on TV. I want to have him here.
ULLMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: So what about Glenn Beck or Limbaugh, do you do them?
ULLMAN: I didn`t. I was going to be Trish Limbaugh, I was going to be like Rush Limbaugh`s sister.
BEHAR: Oh how would you do that?
ULLMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: Are you working on it?
ULLMAN: But I decided not to do it.
BEHAR: He`s blustery, blustery.
ULLMAN: He`s blustery...
BEHAR: Yes.
ULLMAN: ...and I didn`t know if I could do that amount of bluster. And then the sketch would just be about bluster.
So I ended up being Simona Cowell, I decided to be...
BEHAR: Simon Cowell`s sister...
ULLMAN: Yes, Simon Cowell`s sister, who sits around his pole in LA and picks on the maids.
This sandwich is absolutely terrible. I mean, it`s absolutely, it`s disgusting. You have taken a basic classic and destroyed it.
So I did that. But yes, I had a great time this year. Seven shows, "State of the Union". I go across the country. I will attempt anybody...
BEHAR: Really?
ULLMAN: I thought about you for a while.
BEHAR: Maybe I`m next.
ULLMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: The voice alone will kill you. Hello.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I sound like Don Corleone. It`s ridiculous.
Do you ever hear from people that you imitate? Like get mad at you or anything?
ULLMAN: No one has come up to me yet.
BEHAR: No.
ULLMAN: No, they probably would love to.
BEHAR: Do you think so?
ULLMAN: I imitated Megan McCain last night and she left a little tweet.
BEHAR: I think we`re going to show that later...
ULLMAN: Yes, I laughed at -- which is nice.
BEHAR: A little footage of that.
ULLMAN: And look what I look like today? Snooki, from "Jersey Shore". I`m down with "Jersey Shore" bitch. I love those kids. Don`t you love those Italian American kids?
BEHAR: No.
ULLMAN: Not they like -- you know you do. That`s funny.
BEHAR: They are funny.
ULLMAN: Just like girls when we were younger.
BEHAR: I was never like that. Stop it.
ULLMAN: Oh come on. There were girls -- she wants to be a veterinarian. She`s a nice girl.
BEHAR: Who, Snooki?
ULLMAN: Yes, Snooki does.
BEHAR: That`s a good idea for her.
ULLMAN: Please.
BEHAR: You have to study science, Snooki, ok.
ULLMAN: I think she does.
BEHAR: Yes.
ULLMAN: I like her, she`s cute.
BEHAR: What is the difference exactly between you and Sybil?
ULLMAN: I`m a happy schizophrenic.
BEHAR: Yes.
ULLMAN: I`m not tortured. I don`t know. And I`m pretty happy to be me at the end of the day, Joy.
BEHAR: How do you work, I`m very interested on how you would work on a character -- like what`s the first thing you would do with a character?
ULLMAN: Just if I can -- there`s a word that you say or -- I just love voices, I hear voices in my head. I did it as a kid you know some kids throw a football around. I would hear voice -- I imitate the teacher. I imitate my family. It got me attention. And I don`t know, I just hear a little buzz word and I want to do it.
Like when I did Laura Bush. Everybody`s a hero. I would hear just these words and want to do it.
BEHAR: That works, that`s good.
ULLMAN: I did Rachel Maddow and I realized that she has a goofy laugh. She goes -- and if I can get one little sound and I think oh, there you go, I`ll do that one.
But I never used to impersonate celebrities.
BEHAR: No.
ULLMAN: But everyone is so obsessed -- celebrity obsessed.
BEHAR: Oh it`s fine.
ULLMAN: And if you throw a sprinkling of them in a show, you get more attention imitating a celebrity than you would with yourself.
BEHAR: You know you were talking about when you were a kid and hearing voices and everything.
ULLMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: You know, a lot of people think that comedy is a defense basically. You`re defending yourself from something.
ULLMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: What was yours? What was your early -- what were your early years like that brought you to comedy?
ULLMAN: I`m not one of those -- everyone says that comics are really sad, and they`re tragic...
BEHAR: I never believe that.
ULLMAN: No, I mean are you? Tragic, sad?
BEHAR: No, no.
ULLMAN: Not really. I just like a laugh.
BEHAR: Right. But usually there`s a side spin.
ULLMAN: I`ve never done stand up like you. I mean I couldn`t stand up and tell jokes...
BEHAR: No, but you`re funny.
ULLMAN: Tour the country and stay in a travel lodge and talk about airlines. I just...
BEHAR: Oh I don`t see that either.
ULLMAN: Did you ever do that?
BEHAR: No.
ULLMAN: Can you imagine?
BEHAR: No, I did the tri-state area, that was it for me.
ULLMAN: Yes, you did tri-state.
BEHAR: Yes. Snooki and that`s it.
ULLMAN: Snooki those girls. I love them. Sorry, sorry.
BEHAR: But you know like sometimes -- I had very curly hair.
ULLMAN: Did you?
BEHAR: They used to tease me. And so...
ULLMAN: Are you straightening it now.
BEHAR: Yes, of course, so I was defensive against the insult.
ULLMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: You know that`s one of the things you do with comedy.
ULLMAN: Yes I was told I look like a troll by my uncles.
BEHAR: Oh, that`s charming.
ULLMAN: Oh they still say that I look like a troll but that makes me laugh. You might be successful but you still look like a troll. And that`s fair enough. You got to laugh at yourself with my family.
BEHAR: Were your parents funny?
ULLMAN: Yes. My whole family is funny. My sister looks like -- you know, she`s the Playboy bunny and gorgeous and pretty. I was the little troll one that made people laugh.
BEHAR: Do you get excited when you see yourself in the Queen? The movie "The Queen".
ULLMAN: Oh it really pissed me off that they put me in "The Queen".
BEHAR: Why?
ULLMAN: They didn`t ask me if I could be in "The Queen". They just took that clip and put me in it, the scene with Cherie and Tony Blair.
BEHAR: Yes.
ULLMAN: And I actually wrote to them and said that I didn`t say that I would be in that.
BEHAR: What -- they didn`t pay you for that?
ULLMAN: Well two people came up to me, one person came up and said why are you being horrible to the queen? And someone else came up to me and said, "Oh I love what you said about the queen." So but I didn`t ask to be in there.
BEHAR: Right.
ULLMAN: So I got them to pay a lot of money to Great Ormond Street Hospital in Princess Diana`s name.
BEHAR: That`s nice.
ULLMAN: That`s the whole story for you there. See? That`s something I`ve never talked about before.
BEHAR: Right.
ULLMAN: Do you see how happy we are?
BEHAR: What about Queen Elizabeth? Would you ever do Queen Elizabeth?
ULLMAN: No. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) did it.
BEHAR: No, that`s off limits to Brits.
ULLMAN: Well, you know, my husband and I -- you see the waving, that`s what they did it like back in England, the class system. So don`t get me started.
BEHAR: And now that you`re an American, you can really go for it now because you`re American.
ULLMAN: Yes, exactly. You got rid of them.
BEHAR: Because when I was in England, you can`t make a joke about the queen in England. They get very ticked off.
ULLMAN: Oh it`s like dropping a lead fart.
You can`t -- some people will and some people won`t. There`s a real dividing line. You know you`d be surprised who will do the whole wants the honors, wants to be service and get knighted, and you know.
BEHAR: Yes. You can do...
ULLMAN: They say the same thing when they meet you. They go, you`ve been very busy, haven`t you? Which is a really good thing to say because you go, "Yes, I have, actually." Anyway.
BEHAR: We`ll be back with Tracey Ullman and your Twitter questions. You don`t like them do you.
ULLMAN: Twitter?
BEHAR: I have some.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ULLMAN: Megan, you look like a very attractive, very talented young Democrat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not a Democrat, I`m not a Democrat, I`m not, I`m not, I`m not. Please don`t call me one.
I`ll get really, really, pissed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Nice to see that her satire is bipartisan. That was Tracey Ullman as John McCain`s daughter, Megan. And as our pal Arianna Huffington on the Showtime show "State of the Union." How did you get Arianna`s accent down? It`s very Zsa Zsa also.
ULLMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s a little Zsa Zsa, a little Ivana.
ULLMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s like a mixture of those three.
ULLLMAN: Yes, very throat, (INAUDIBLE). I saw your show last week talking about the sleep challenge. Yes all about Arianna right?
BEHAR: Oh yes.
ULLMAN: Arianna, don`t take your computer to bed. Don`t take your Twitter. Don`t tweet in bed.
It`s like an all-you-can-tweet breakfast. It`s so tempting to impersonate her. She really has been very kind to me.
She says people like you being me more than they like me being me. She`s very generous. I like her a lot.
BEHAR: She`s very good.
ULLMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: And so is Megan. Megan`s a nice girl too.
ULLMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: I`m sure she`d think that was funny. Ok. Now here are some twitter questions. Do you tweet?
ULLMAN: No.
BEHAR: You don`t? You don`t like it?
ULLMAN: I don`t have Facebook or anything. I`m just antisocial. I was like, if I ever go on those things, someone lousy from school contacts me. You know, the person you didn`t want to talk with and they`d go, remember me? You go, oh, no.
BEHAR: Facebook is for the fans, really, to write to you and interact with you. You might like that. Twittering is -- can get people in trouble.
ULLMAN: What, are you in trouble over it?
BEHAR: I can`t go into it today.
ULLMAN: You`re stressed. Why are you stressed?
BEHAR: No, it`s fine.
ULLMAN: Tell me why she`s stressed. Who -- what did you tweet? What did you do?
BEHAR: Nothing. I can`t discuss it right now.
ULLMAN: Oh no.
BEHAR: You have to let certain things go. Maybe they`ll disappear. You pray. Ok.
Here`s a good twitter question for you. "The Simpsons" got its start on the "Tracey Ullman show." Are you disappointed you`re not involved in it now? They know all about you.
ULLMAN: I hear from the Simpsons quarterly.
BEHAR: You do? They send you a check?
ULLMAN: I`m very proud of "The Simpsons". It`s extremely funny.
BEHAR: It`s a very funny show. And our pal Julie Cavner (ph).
ULLMAN: Of course.
BEHAR: I did a movie with her.
ULLMAN: I know, she`s based the character in that Nora Ephron film years ago. Remember that...
BEHAR: That`s right, "This Is My Life".
Is there something you want to do career wise that you haven`t done yet?
ULLMAN: I like to do Peter Seller`s Dr. Strangelove multiple character film. I`d love to do a really great, to have a story line that sustains for 90 minutes. That would be great.
BEHAR: That would be great. Do you do Sarah Palin and Nancy Pelosi?
ULLMAN: I didn`t bother with Sarah Palin because Tina Fey did the definitive Sarah Palin.
BEHAR: Right.
ULLMAN: She did it. She hit it out of the park.
BEHAR: You can`t follow that one. How about Nancy Pelosi?
ULLMAN: Nancy Pelosi, I did a little Nancy Pelosi thing in the very first episode. I had a little shot of her having a needle put in her forehead. But, you know, and you saw her eyes. And you saw her eyes.
BEHAR: Yes. You don`t do Obama.
ULLMAN: No. I can`t -- you know, no. That doesn`t organically come to me to be Michelle. I mean, I talk about them. Maybe next year.
BEHAR: Maybe Michelle.
ULLMAN: Maybe Michelle -- or Michelle`s mom, you know, going to yoga classes and enjoying living in the White House.
BEHAR: Yes, but we don`t know her too well.
ULLMAN: But they`ve got enough grief going on right now.
BEHAR: You could have her doing the vegetable garden. She`s very into the organic garden.
ULLMAN: Yes, (INAUDIBLE) in San Francisco...
BEHAR: Yes.
ULLMAN: Yes, there you go.
BEHAR: That would be perfect.
ULLMAN: There`s a connection.
BEHAR: I think they`re so multitalented and multiorgasmic I hope also.
ULLMAN: Oh yes.
BEHAR: Lovely to have you, my dear. Thanks for joining me.
ULLMAN: That`s why I use clitter. Who`s going to cut that one? Get snipping.
BEHAR: Ok, thanks, Tracey. Tracey Ullman "State of the Union" airs on Showtime.
ULLMAN: They`re not real.
BEHAR: They`re not. These are. Mondays at 10:30.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELLEN DEGENERES, HOST: I am going to be the new judge on "American Idol." I`ve not missed one episode of that show. I`ve watched every single thing. I love everything about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ellen Degeneres sure seemed excited about her new gig on "American Idol" back in September. These days, however Idol`s newest judge is singing a different tune, due apparently to Simon Cowell`s behavior. He is reportedly acting like something that rhymes with pitchy. Joining me to discuss this and other earth shattering entertainment news are Lizz Winstead, comedian and co-creator of "The Daily Show." Rob Shuter from AOL`s "Popeater" and Lindsay Powers, Senior Editor for US Weekly and usmagazine.com. Okay. What happened, Rob?
ROB SHUTER, AOL`S "POPEATER" COLUMNIST: Oh it`s horrible. It was first day at work and they were mean to her.
BEHAR: To Ellen?
SHUTER: Simon was late. Simon`s always been late. Simon`s late for everything, but he was an hour and a half late. And Ms. Ellen --
BEHAR: Why?
SHUTER: Because he`s a diva. He`s been late since day one at Idol. It`s interesting is there has not been a single leak until he quite. And suddenly blah blah blah and people were leaking stuff.
BEHAR: Why are they leaking stuff?
SHUTER: Well I think he`s done now. They don`t care. Like they don`t have to protect him anymore.
BEHAR: No, they have to protect Ellen and be nice to her now. SHUTER: They are protecting Ellen. So they`re building Ellen up as this gracious lady who sat and waited for an hour and a half and told the bully off for being late.
BEHAR: I think she`s really like that though.
SHUTER: No, everything about her, she`s a great person and people love her. Like you and your staff Joy.
BEHAR: So she has the right to be angry, right Lindsey?
LINDSAY POWERS, SR. EDITOR, US WEEKLY: Well she has the right to be upset if Simon was legitimately standing her up, but US weekly confirms that he was actually signing his contract at that moment to leave Idol, to take over the Xfactor. So he had a lot of business going on. You know, let`s be honest, Ellen is the kind of the new kid of the block. Does she really have the right to kind of throw all of this --
BEHAR: Can I be cynical for a second?
POWERS: Please!
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Is it possible that this is a publicity stunt? I mean, there was Simon and Paula and the little friction and now he`s hiring Paula. Is there a publicity stunt to get some action buzz about the show?
LIZZ WINSTEAD, CO-CREATOR; "THE DAILY SHOW": Okay if this is a publicity stunt?
BEHAR: Yes.
WINSTEAD: It is the most boring scandal. This is actually -- Tiger`s text messages were actually more interesting than the stupid scandal. If he was like with Adam Lambert re-creating that, that would be one thing. He was late and this what they leak? This is the leak from "American Idol"? That Simon was late. Show business and they shoot in L.A. the guy was late. Are you high? Have you ever been on the highway there?
BEHAR: Is it publicity, Rob?
SHUTER: It probably is. We`re talking about it. But late is late, I think it`s rude. Like if you`re -- when we have dinner, if you`re an hour and a half late - it`s late
WINSSTEAD: But it`s Simon Cowell. I have never been - you know what like the gentleman, he`s not David Nivens - it`s Simon Cowell --
BEHAR: You know what it`s a boring story. Let`s move on.
SHUTER: Boring, boring.
BEHAR: What about other "Idol" news.
WINSTEAD: Oh please.
BEHAR: That big Mike, who got booted off the show because he was part of the top 24 and his father spilled the beans to the press. I understand that he spilled it to his wife who works on the newspaper. That`s a proud father or just not that bright? He screwed up his did now.
SHUTER: Pride that. Pride that, I think it`s part of the confidentiality clause.
BEHAR: Well he knew the rules.
SHUTER: Well but you know what -
BEHAR: Look he screwed up his kid.
SHUTER: He screwed up -- who cares. He was the top 25, they didn`t give us the winner. They didn`t tell us like, it doesn`t make any difference that we know. I think it`s really mean of "Idol" to do this. They should have him back.
BEHAR: They should have him back, why should be penalized for his father`s sin, yes.
POWERS: But don`t you think they kind of have to set ground rules? I mean there`s are like 12,000 kids that come to every single auditions. I mean if they`re like, everyone would still be in those seats -- the show of - the ratings would go down even lower than they already are this season.
WINSTEAD: How is the kids? I`ve seen the adults?
SHUTER: Baby, they`re 22.
BEHAR: He`s got to be under 28.
WINSTEAD: All I`m saying if he`s going to be an adult and his father, I don`t understand the sins of the father thing, you know what I mean?
BEHAR: You`re not supposed to spill the beans that your child, whoever is in the top 24, that`s all. And he did.
WINSTEAD: But did the kid get kicked out because he told the father and the father told the press, like does the kid wasn`t supposed to tell anyone?
SHUTER: I though she finally -
WINSTEAD: You can`t tell anyone?
SHUTER: No, but this person has an important point, never tell your parents anything.
BEHAR: I agree with that. Yeah.
POWERS: Well, who does?
BEHAR: All right, let`s switch it up. Rumors say that Conan is in fact going to FOX. Which makes sense that he walked off if he already had a deal, right, Lindsay?
POWERS: Yeah. It is compelling and you know I worked with "The New York Post" for a number of years and for them to be reporting that this is happening makes it seem like it`s true. And it`s a great thing.
(LAUGHTER)
POWERS: Oh did (UNINTELLIGIBLE) say that on air right there?
WINSTEAD: Sorry, sorry -
(CROSSTALK)
POWERS: But no, I mean I`m sorry but for FOX to come down and be saying that FOX is tighter to be saying - you see the connection right there. And you know it seems like a really good fit I feel like for Conan to end up on FOX. He attracts a younger audience. He`s going to have, you know, more of these viral videos and now FOX -
BEHAR: Right.
POWERS: when they`ve tried to do this before, bring in a night time host, they never - they never really had that clout.
BEHAR: Well even though FOX new is the to the right of Kaiser Wilhelm, FOX entertainment is very edgy and very entertaining. Married With Children, Glee -
SHUTER: American Idol.
BEHAR: Is there.
POWERS: American Idol.
BEHAR: Yes.
WINSTEAD: But the thing is that it`s all up to the affiliates. And I don`t know that they can gather 100 affiliates which is about what they`ll need to make this work. Already to have them sign on and say yeah, we`re willing to take this leap and Conan`s awesome but remember Conan`s numbers, at times like, weren`t great.
SHUTER: And also timing doesn`t have a show, remember they hired a guy that couldn`t attract an audience. It seems like it`s not going to be enough.
BEHAR: So what`s going to happen?
WINSTEAD: But what is that time slot? I think the bigger question is -
BEHAR: He`s going on at 11.
SHUTER: 11?
WINSTEAD: No, no but what I`m saying is that time slot now, I feel like with all of the new media and all the stuff we have.
SHUTER: Seinfeld, three feet.
WINSTEAD: That audience might not be the cream of the crop and there anymore. And I think that`s what we may be finding out.
BEHAR: That doesn`t spell success for Conan the way you describe it..
SHUTER: He`s got $40 million to retire.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Come on he`s young.
WINSTEAD: Yes.
BEHAR: He needs to work. He wants to work.
POWERS: I think he`s probably stuck at night.
SHUTER: So what -
(CROSSTALK)
WINSTEAD: I think people will tune in --
POWERS: I think he has a second life on the job.
SHUTER: I think this if the first week I think people will tune in and then will realize why we didn`t tune in.
POWERS: I don`t think so. I don`t think so.
BEHAR: At 11:00 right now, FOX is running comedy reruns. Now maybe the audience likes that.
WINSTEAD: Well you know we`ll see what that demographic is because that`s also the "Daily Show" demographic and they`ve got that solid spot. And it`s the same kind of viewer. So you wonder if they`ll split the difference at 11:00 if it goes to FOX.
BEHAR: Right. Well here`s a sad note, he can`t take the masturbating bear with him.
(CROSSTALK)
WINSTEAD: I want him to take it -
BEHAR: What did you say?
POWERS: We don`t know what that means for the show because it`s - you know the octomom.
WINSTEAD: Do bears even masturbate?
BEHAR: I don`t know, I haven`t really checked with the bear lately.
WINSTEAD: Okay.
BEHAR: Finally, in unrelated news, the octo babies have turned 1. I`m not sending eight gifts those children need to learn to share. I mean let`s talk about her for a minute. Do you think -- first of all, they`re having a birthday party, I`m assuming, right.
WINSTEAD: You invite no one.
SHUTER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
POWERS: Is that correct you have a party? I know.
(CROSSTALK)
POWERS: The whole invitation.
BEHAR: She has the other kids, too.
POWERS: Yes, I know that`s what I`m saying.
SHUTER: A lot --
BEHAR: Rob, what do you think about her lately? I mean she posed in her bikini.
SHUTER: She`s like a bond. I got the figure today.
BEHAR: Tell me.
SHUTER: "Star" magazine had her on the cover last week in a bikini, body belly hanging out, sold nothing. You won`t see her on a cover for six months. They won`t risk it again. So she`s trying to sell the pictures from this birthday party and no one is going to buy.
BEHAR: Why do you suppose it`s not selling?
SHUTER: I think people are over her. I think it`s a moment, an interesting moment.
WINSTEAD: She`s got to realize at some point, she had that weird lip implant and I think it`s because of her poor vagina was exhausted. Can we say that?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well who wouldn`t. Why not. On this show, yes.
WINSTEAD: Okay, all right but like no one -- she`s done, please.
BEHAR: So her 15 minutes are up.
SHUTER: Done.
WINSTEAD: I don`t know. So next time she does anything she`ll be coming through the tunnel with the elephant. But -
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: It`s over.
POWERS: I think she`s been lying - I think if she can line those kids up put them sunny hats, matching t shirts, take them to the beach, I would totally look at photos.
SHUTER: Maybe that can sell but this one of the photo in a bikini.
WINSTEAD: That`s true but I also think too that any woman who has one kid and tries to get to the gym knows that there`s not enough time in the day. How many children does she have? 35.
BEHAR: I think she has 8 and another 4 or something.
SHUTER: 4. 6 for them.
BEHAR: Oh okay, so that`s 14 -
SHUTER: 14.
WINSTEAD: So 14 kids and she finds time to do a -
SHUTER: Photo shoot.
WINSTEAD: Photo shoot and work out.
BEHAR: Where does she get the money to support 14 children?
(CROSSTALK)
SHUTER: The photograph.
WINSTEAD: Do you want to know my completely not based in truth theory?
BEHAR: Yes, sure.
WINSTEAD: That doctor is the father of all of them. I think it`s all his sperm.
POWERS: The fertility inseminator.
SHUTER: Wow.
BEHAR: Was he at the birthday party, do you think at the birthday party?
POWERS: Yes, what a riot.
SHUTER: Picture labor.
WINSTEAD: Okay so I really do think that it`s all his sperm.
BEHAR: Probably. Do they look like him?
WINSTEAD: Well who knows? They do now.
BEHAR: They need to go on Maury Povich.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What about the 15 minutes, are they up for the Gosselins yet?
SHUTER: It`s going down. People just don`t go from hot to cold just like that. It takes a little bit of time to go down that hill. So it`s certainly -- it`s over for him.
BEHAR: It`s over.
SHUTER: Kate if she keeps changing her hair and keeps you know, developing the whistles going maybe she can stretch it a little longer but he`s done. He`s done.
BEHAR: Okay, but how about the Spideys before we go?
SHUTER: The Spideys?
BEHAR: The Spidey, Montag, Heidi Montag.
SHUTER: She`s on the cover of our magazine tomorrow with plastic surgery gone wrong. So they`re going to keep going --
BEHAR: I thought it went right. We saw the pictures on people.
WINSTEAD: No she crossed ghoul line. She crossed the ghoul line.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: All right thanks everybody. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Basically, we`re dealing with teen pregnancy in our public schools after the fact. Why can`t we just prevent it before the fact?
But we are. We are preventing it before the fact with abstinence programs.
But if you provide birth control, you`re all but encouraging these kids to have sex.
They`re going to have sex any way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was a clip from the lifetime movie "The Pregnancy Pact" based on the true story of 18 Massachusetts high school students who got pregnant the same year. Why is this a hot issue at the moment? Because after a decade of declining teen pregnancies, the rate has gone up, a lot. So despite the millions of dollars poured into abstinence programs, it seems they`re not working.
I`m joined now by the author of the New York Times best seller "Give Me Liberty" Naomi Wolf. Lakita Garth, author of "The Naked Truth About Sex, Love And Relationships." and Scott Phelps, executive director of the Abstinence And Marriage Education Partnership. Okay, Naomi, what do you think about that? The abstinence programs not working? Are they working or not?
NAOMI WOLF, AUTHOR "GIVE ME LIBERTY": Well the evidence, the data shows that they`re not working. If you get a breakdown of the states that have been foremost in abstinence education, like George Bush`s Texas, those are the same states that are the highest in unwanted pregnancies. And I think that the reason is clear. These numbers don`t say that these kids are having less sex. They say they`re having sex more destructively. They`re having sex but not using a condom or not using contraception. And I think that abstinence education, while I`m all for boundaries. And we can talk about that, it creates a situation which girls especially think I feel desire, I`m not supposed to feel desire. I`ve learned about AIDS, STDS, and gonorrhea. It`s so scary, I`m just going to get drunk. I`m just going to hook up that I can check out and not be here. And that`s when the dangerous behavior, the damaging behavior takes place. We should teach them abou desire and responsibility.
BEHAR: Let me just bring in here Lakita for a minute. Do you agree with that, Lakita, what she said?
LAKITA GARTH, AUTHOR "THE NAKED TRUTH": Well, actually, people talk about the rise in teen pregnancy, but people forget about the previous 15 years before that, when there was actually abstinence funding going, in which it reached an all-time low in a generation of not just sexual activity but also teen pregnancy.
You can actually go back several years when abstinence funding started to get cut and you`ll see that when strands and some of these programs started getting cut back, that the rise in teen pregnancy began. But we also forget that it was actually Bill Clinton was the first to give funding for abstinence education. When you`re talking about girls and what they do with desire and all these types of things, I would like to address that point, is that abstinence is empowerment when we`re talking for young ladies. Because the reality is that in our culture of instant gratification, and a hedonistic society we`re not empowering young women, we`re just teaching them to just instantly gratify themselves like we encourage males with the expectations of males.
WOLF: Can I jump into that?
BEHAR: Jump in.
GARTH: Okay for me, in negotiating a condom, we need to have girls be able to negotiate more than just a condom.
BEHAR: Okay. Okay lets -
GARTH: But to negotiate other things.
BEHAR: Okay, thank you. Go ahead Naomi.
WOLF: I just wanted to say I actually think that we have some common ground because I actually think that the straight intercourse model has been terrible for girls. Girls, there`s so much pressure to go straight to intercourse without going to first base, second base, third base, and stopping there which is what my mother`s generation used to do.
BEHAR: Yes.
WOLF: And that was actually a good model because there were social constraints not to go straight to intercourse, you could explore your body if you were a girl. You find out what felt good and you could learn to say yes and no. And ideally boys too could learn to say yes and no. So what I recommend is what we reteach is first base, second base, third base, stop. And I don`t know if that`s - if you agree with that or not. But it is a form of - I guess you can say abstinence and intercourse. But it`s yes to pleasure and sexuality when appropriate.
BEHAR: Uh huh, but you know, the abstinence programs cost, I believe, $150 million they`ve thrown into the abstinence programs. Just from a Republican point of view, isn`t it a waste of money if it`s not working?
WOLF: Yes that`s a good question.
SCOTT PHELPS, ABSTINENCE & MARRIAGE EDUCATION PARTNERSHIP: Yes, the reality is nobody wants to fund programs that don`t work. And the reality is very few kids are actually getting the abstinence education programs. All the federal funds that are available only reach about 8 percent of the teenagers that are out there. And it`s really a thimble full compared to what they`re getting in terms of safe sex messages in schools and through other programs.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
PHELPS: And actually when you`re talking about abstinence programs, it really is a very well rounded message. We`re talking about avoiding alcohol and tobacco and drugs and all kinds of things that are associated with sexual activity.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
PHELPS: And what I think kids really need is a cheerleader. Kids want to do well. They don`t want their live to end up in a ditch. What they need someone to say yes you can do it, they don`t need the, you`re going to do it anyway, so here`s the contraception.
BEHAR: No but you see that`s the flaw in the argument as far as I can see. They`re going to do it anyway.
Yes.
BEHAR: Where is the reality of the situation. If you`re a young girl and you`re sexually active, you might need contraception, you might need a condom. And the points that these people are giving them is don`t do it. Well, I`m doing it is the answer. I`m doing it.
GARTH: Joy, Joy, the reality is, is that for other behaviors, which we have age limits, such as drinking, smoking, you can`t do those until you`re 21 -- in most states.
BEHAR: They do it anyway. And they do that also -- Lakita
GARTH: You`re right, they don`t - you`re right some of them do. But the standard is, the expectations that you should not do this, because nothing good comes from a teenager smoking, drinking or having sex. Nothing. Even Jerry Springer is quoted the saying "teens should not be having sex." Now grant it, they are going to -- some are going to have sex. But what you have done is you have lowered the bar for the entire group of young people and just saying well, you`re all going to do it anyway, so therefore, a, b, c, d.
BEHAR: Yes but are you against teaching them about condoms and contraception?
GARTH: We actually teach them, let me clarify the misnomer. Because the media has been complicate in this.
BEHAR: Make it quick, I don`t have that much time.
GARTH: Okay as chairman of the largest abstinence education organization on the planet, abstinence only does not mean abstinence is the only thing that is taught. Scott can tell you, young people learn about contraception, but they learn that the best choice is to abstain and focus your energies on that. Abstinence is the only 100 percent way to protect yourself from STDS and pregnancy.
(CROSSTALK)
WOLF: Okay, I`m not the chairman of an organization, I`m the mother of a 14-year-old daughter. And I think that to just say, well, you know, the best thing is no sexual activity at all until you are married is --
GARTH: Okay, you define that.
WOLF: Bear with me. Well, I think we should define it. I think it would be great to teach sexual gradualism. What I mentioned before, but with that said, were you guys sexually abstinent until marriage? Scott?
GARTH: Yes, I was. I was a virgin when I got married. And it really wasn`t that hard, it wasn`t that hard at all.
WOLF: Really.
GARTH: Because I actually had standards and unqualified applicants need not apply. Because as a president and CEO of my company, you have to fill out an application just to clean my toilet. Most girls are not given that requirement just to take off your clothes and have sex.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Am I hearing her quickly correctly --
WOLF: How about you?
PHELPS: How about me what?
WOLF: Were you sexually abstinent until you were married?
PHELPS: First of all my subjective experience doesn`t have anything to do with the fact of reality.
WOLF: I think it`s very important because we`re telling kids to do something that we`re not willing to do or able to do.
BEHAR: But am I understanding correctly that abstinence-
GARTH: I agree. Which is why we should not put business Bristol Palin as a spokesperson for abstinence.
(CROSSTALK)
WOLF: We didn`t name her as that.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: The moose is out of the barn as they say.
GARTH: Get some who succeed it. I want financial advice from the wealthiest man in the world, I don`t want financial advice from a man - not someone who got ripped off by Madoff.
BEHAR: But am I to understand that the abstinence programs do teach to use protection also? If you are sexually active. That`s just what I`m - confused about.
(CROSSTALK)
PHELPS: The safest healthiest best message for sexually active teens is you don`t have to keep going down that path and our most responsive, listen.
(CROSSTALK)
WOLF: We know that.
BEHAR: But if you give a seat belt to a kid in the car, why not give them a condom when they`re in the back of the car?
PHELPS: Yes.
BEHAR: Don`t go anywhere we`ve got more to talk about, be back in a minute.
GARTH: Because the vast majority --
BEHAR: Hang on Lakita.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel and we`re talking teen pregnancy and abstinence education. And you two were getting into an argument about personal --
PHELPS: A wonderful discussion -
GARTH: I agree -
(CROSSTALK)
GARTH: I`m the best qualified person on here to talk about be abstinence because I actually did it.
BEHAR: Okay.
GARTH: So I can tell you how to do it.
BEHAR: Okay wait a second, hang on, go ahead.
PHELPS: The point is, everything that we teach is objectively factual research-based. It has nothing to do with personal subjective experience. I don`t go to class when I talk to kids about what I did and didn`t do. So much as tell them what is the objective fact. Waiting until they are married to have sex is the safest healthiest choice. We right now are out of 40 percent wedlock birth rate, we are 5 years away from a 50 percent out of wedlock birth rate. We must teach this generation that marriage matters and you should wait until you are married to have sex and have children. It`s a critical message. it`s an objective message.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: When you say sex education, are you talking about intercourse specifically? Because a lot of these girls -
PHELPS: We are talking about all types of sexual activities.
BEHAR: Because a lot of these kids are doing oral -
PHELPS: Because what Naomi is talking about is -
BEHAR: Because they think what you`re saying is intercourse only.
PHELPS: Yeah and so what Naomi is --
BEHAR: So a lot of STDS are increasing because of that.
PHELPS: That`s right.
WOLF: I think bringing back petting. Petting -- was safe, healthy, it was good for you. It felt good.
BEHAR: Yes, I love petting - I love petting now.
(LAUGHTER)
WOLF: You know, if you tell me -
BEHAR: I`d be a virgin again just for the -
(LAUGHTER)
GARTH: I can tell you about being a virgin. And when this show is finished, my husband and I have a lot of time to make up for because I actually waited. Now, listen - let`s get back to what Naomi said --
BEHAR: Listen, Lakita that doesn`t always work, okay, I waited also and it didn`t work.
(CROSSTALK)
GARTH: But you know what, it really wasn`t - it was not that hard to wait. And that is because the very thing we were taught.
WOLF: It was very hard to wait.
GARTH: Naomi is talking about what about the kids that actually are sexually active. Well actually Eunice Kennedy Shriver, herself, in a study that was conducted in Atlanta Georgia. The vast majority, like 2/3 of girls who would have sex regret that they had sex and wished that they had waited but nobody told them. So we`re not even looking at the cues of those that have had sex.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Hold on. WOLF: I have to tell you, if you look at the data that I examined in my book, promiscuities which is about sexual maturation - when teenage girls in northern Europe where they teach girls about desire, girls don`t learn where their clitoris are in sex education classes here. Men learn, boys learn about erections and ejaculations, girls don`t learn the first thing about how to pleasure themselves so they can wait, for god sakes.
GARTH: What we are saying here -
WOLF: In northern Europe, the rates of unwanted pregnancy are lower. Girls know about their bodies, about their desire and how to take responsibility --
BEHAR: But I think what Naomi and I are saying is -
GARTH: Nobody is against that, Naomi.
BEHAR: Wait a minute, hold on Lakita. You know what we`re saying is, teach abstinence but teach the rest of it, too.
PHELPS: Yes, they are getting the rest of it.
BEHAR: Don`t just say abstinence is the way to go when it`s not the only way to go.
PHELPS: The reason for abstinence is -
WOLF: Good. Well said. Good policy.
PHELPS: Thank you, the reason for abstinence education is because they were only getting the other stuff. Teens are learning about contraception in school and abstinence doesn`t include that. The abstinence program are to say there`s also another choice. We believe that kids should have a choice.
WOLF: Absolutely.
PHELPS: Kids today are so pressured. 10 hours of media.
BEHAR: There`s a lot of different messages.
PHELPS: Ten hours of media per day saying, go, do it. What we think kids need is the opportunity to say, you know what you don`t have to give into that pressure. You can stand up to that.
BEHAR: I agree with that.
PHELPS: So what we are teaching them is how - that`s exactly what abstinence education is about. Okay so we`re all one happy family.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You two take it outside. Thanks everyone for joining me tonight. Thank you for watching. Good bye Lakita, good night, everybody.
END
