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Joy Behar Page
Edwards-Hunter Sex Tape?; Michael Jackson`s Children Pay Tribute to Late Father at Grammy Awards; Interview With Gayle Haggard
Aired February 01, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Rielle Hunter and John Edwards made a baby together and apparently they`ve made a sex tape as well. Rielle is suing to prevent the release -- film at 11?
Then at the Grammy awards, Michael Jackson`s kids are trotted out to pay tribute to their father. Thank God. They were mere inches away from a normal childhood.
Plus, people were shocked when Reverend Ted Haggard confessed to having homosexual experiences but no one was more shocked than his wife Gayle who`ll join me in the studio.
All this plus a cold shower starting right now.
According to former John Edwards campaign aide Andrew Young, Edwards and Rielle Hunter shared more than a love nest. They shared a camera crew.
Take a look at what he told ABC`s 20/20.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW YOUNG, FORMER CAMPAIGN AIDE OF JOHN EDWARDS: It`s a sex tape of Rielle and John Edwards, made just a couple of months before the Iowa caucuses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Now Rielle Hunter, Edwards` former mistress, has obtained a court order demanding that Young turn over the videotapes to her.
Joining me to talk about this hot property is Nicole Narain, a reality star who made a sex tape with actor Colin Farrell. Dan Savage, sex columnist and editor of the stranger. And Steve Kornacki, columnist at the "New York Observer" and contributor to "The Daily Beast".
Steve, let me start with you. Now she claims -- he claims that there is a sex tape. She wants an injunction on it. Doesn`t that pretty much tell you that it exists?
STEVE KORNACKI, COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK OBSERVER": Yes. And his claim on this, it sort of doesn`t make sense to me. Why exactly he should have the legal right to this. It`s not -- obviously something he made. His story is that he stumbled across it because she had moved into his house briefly in 2007. Then she moved out and he came back and he was sort of cleaning things up. He found I guess in the trash can a tape marked special. She basically just left it there.
BEHAR: Wasn`t it though?
KORNACKI: And, you know, so it seemed like, you know, A, she should have taken better care of it if that`s truly how he came across it. But B, when he came across it he obviously felt -- I think he could see where things were kind of maybe going with this and he wanted some protection for himself so yes, I`m going to hold on to this.
BEHAR: Well, you know, as Freud says there are no accidents. So I wonder why she was so neglectful of those tapes.
Well, Andrew Young was on "Good Morning America" this morning when he was asked why he was so sure it was John Edwards and Rielle Hunter on this sex tape. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: I`m positive it`s John Edwards. You can clearly see his face. I can`t speak for the rest of the body parts. With Rielle, it`s clearly a pregnant woman. It was taped several months before the election. There are distinguishing jewelry that she wore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He`s not sure of the body parts. I am. It`s him, ok?
Dan, what does that mean? He`s not sure of the body parts?
DAN SAVAGE, SEX COLUMNIST: I guess it means that Andrew didn`t -- Andrew Young didn`t service John Edwards in every possible way.
BEHAR: Ok.
What does it mean to you, Steve what does it mean to you?
KORNACKI: That there were no distinguishing...
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
KORNACKI: It`s funny because if you remember when there was a picture about a year or two ago that emerged, before Edwards admitted anything. There`s a picture of him holding the baby. It was clearly John Edwards.
And he was asked on ABC News, you know...
BEHAR: He said something.
KORNACKI: Who? No, I don`t know what that is.
BEHAR: Yes.
KORNACKI: That`s the whole body, so...
BEHAR: It`s like you`re going to believe me or your eyes, one of those.
So let me ask Steve one more question, and then I`ll get to Nicole. Can he be sued for fraud by Elizabeth Edwards?
KORNACKI: Can...
BEHAR: Can Young be sued for fraud?
KORNACKI: You know it`s interesting. I was thinking about that.
When this story broke, when we just found out that Rielle Hunter was pregnant, was having a baby remember, the birth certificate was left blank. Very intentionally, the father on the birth certificate was left blank which I think was clearly like a legal thing. Let`s make sure nobody, if this ever comes out, can prosecute Andrew for this.
I wonder if she could. But at the same time, is that a kind of lost -- think about what would be involved in like the discovery process in a lawsuit like that. Is that something she would really want to get into? I don`t see how an aggrieved party can bring action against him.
I think the key decision he made was making sure his name wasn`t on that birth certificate so the prosecutor couldn`t get hold of this and say, here`s a technicality, we`re going to prosecute.
BEHAR: But Andrew Young and Edwards were in this fraudulent cover-up, this lie to the American people and to Mrs. Edwards. Isn`t that fraudulent?
KORNACKI: Sure. I think the problem is, if you ever pursued anything, the question would be how much did she really know? How much did she suspect? How much did she intentionally shield herself from? And I don`t think she wants to go down there. I don`t think anybody would want to.
BEHAR: Ok.
Nicole, you had a sex tape with Colin Farrell, right?
NICOLE NARAIN, HAD SEX TAPE WITH COLIN FARRELL: Many years ago, yes.
BEHAR: How many, how many years ago?
NARAIN: It`s a long time ago. Like over five years ago; it was really long time ago.
BEHAR: It`s not that long.
NARAIN: Well...
SAVAGE: It`s an eternity in sex tapes.
BEHAR: Did you make any with anybody else? Because I have a hotline to Regis Philbin in case you`re interested.
NARAIN: No. No, no. If I had to do it all over again, it`s like, you know, I mean, I had to learn the hard way so...
BEHAR: Why make a sex tape when you know it`s going to get out? Sex tapes leak.
NARAIN: I don`t -- well, I don`t think a lot of people go into it thinking that they`re going to leak, you know? It just depends on the situation.
But I do know that it`s 2010 and people will continually keep making these sex tapes and at the end of the day, what I`ve learned is if you want to make a sex tape and you`re with someone and you love them and you want to be with them, as much love and passion that went into making that sex tape, then you should have some hammers by the side of the bed so that when you`re done, you can destroy it together and watch it and then destroy it.
BEHAR: That`s...
NARAIN: That`s the only...
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you. What you said is true.
Dan, I just have to ask you though, I mean, this is a presidential candidate making a sex tape with a pregnant woman. There`s something so low and weird about that. Comments?
SAVAGE: Well, everybody when you look at other people`s sex lives thinks, that`s low and weird. Pregnant women are sexually active with their sex partners. Probably better if your sex partner isn`t running for president and isn`t committing adultery and cheating on his wife.
NARAIN: He should have known better.
SAVAGE: He should have known better but people take risks for their sex lives. Men are aroused by risks. When the Clinton-Monica Lewinsky thing went down, people said, how could he do that in the Oval Office? That was so risky. Didn`t he know it was risky?
Yes, he knew it was risky. That was one of the things that made it so arousing for him. Presidential candidates, political big wigs are risk-taking personalities. And that extends also to their section sex lives.
NARAIN: And I don`t think it helps that his wife has cancer. I mean I know that is a big issue and I know that I`ve had friends in the past who had spouses who were going through cancer and they`ve strayed from their marriage. And I think that what happens is there`s that natural animal instinct to -- that you want to feed.
So unfortunately for his wife, he sought elsewhere for, you know, his -- to feed that hunger. And on top of that, he took it to another extra level with the kid and the sex tape. He just kept it, like, going and going. It`s ridiculous.
BEHAR: Right.
SAVAGE: Sex and romance are messy. Also in a long-term relationship where one partner -- you know, I`m gay and I`m 45 and I watched a lot of people die from AIDS. There`s a point at which in a relationship, a long- term relationship, where one person is very, very sick, where the roles really shift from spouses and sex partners to caretaker and patient. And that`s not a very sexual role.
And there`s a lot of people who have been in long-term relationships where one partner is very sick who sought sexual relief on the side so they could stay in that relationship and keep playing the caretaker role. I`m not saying John Edwards...
BEHAR: Really.
SAVAGE: ... was motivated by that reason or doing it for that reason...
BEHAR: Let`s not let him off the hook for that one.
SAVAGE: Well, I`m not trying to let him off the hook. I`m just trying to say that not every circumstance where someone has a partner who`s very, very ill and they see someone on the side is it is squalid and desperate or unethical really as this was.
KORNACKI: Well, you know, the thing is the sex is the most titillating part of this. It`s the part that`s going to make the biggest headlines. But the story to me is really about just the wholesale fraudulence of John Edwards. It`s not just the fact that he cheated on his cancer-stricken wife. It`s not just the fact that he denied paternity. It`s not just the denials about the sex.
It`s about all the other stuff that`s come out about how totally artificial this personality was. At the very beginning of the 2008 campaign he took a lot of grief for living in a -- basically a gated mansion. The guy who was talking about two Americas, the guy who was talking about poverty -- and I defended him at the time. Saying the Roosevelts were great defenders of the impoverished.
BEHAR: That`s right.
KORNACKI: But you know what, I think there was something to that. I think there was a certain degree of artifice with this guy. That`s what we`re seeing now. It`s not just about the sex. It`s about the little anecdotes that come out about, he has the Italian, the Gucci, the Versace label whatever it is that he cuts out and he takes the American thing from Andrew to show the unions that he`s American so even though he wants to have the Italian shoes...
BEHAR: What a jerk.
KORNACKI: Yes, it`s just a lot of things like that.
BEHAR: I didn`t hear that one, that`s just jerk behavior.
NARAIN: But you know what Joy, I wanted to answer your question. Young, if the tape is made between Edwards and this young woman, he can`t go out and -- he can`t really legally have rights to the tape. So that`s between Edwards and...
BEHAR: Who? Andrew?
NARAIN: Yes, he doesn`t have any rights to it.
SAVAGE: Everyone involved in this has acquitted themselves badly. Everyone involved in this whole mess. You read the books that were coming out about the campaign. Elizabeth Edwards doesn`t sound like Saint Elizabeth anymore either. And Andrew Young is a cad. And John Edwards is a horn dog and a fraud obviously.
You know, we`re losing sight of who the real victim of all this is going to be. One day, this kid is going to Google this and look up all the YouTube videos; what a burden it`s going to be for that child.
BEHAR: I fear for the future Googlers, to tell you the truth in all of this, this entire month. I fear for all those little Googlers.
Thanks, everyone. In case you want even more details about this alleged sex tape and the case, former Edwards aide Andrew Young will be my guest this Wednesday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.
But up next, newly elected Senator Scott Brown sat down with my own Barbara Walters yesterday and you won`t believe what he said about his nude Cosmo photos.
Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m Senator Scott Brown. But you can call me Scott.
Oh, hi, Barbara. How`s your health care plan going? I`m against the public option but I can offer you a pubic option.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Oh, God. That was newly elected Massachusetts Senator Scott Brown getting the "SNL" treatment this weekend. But he also made an actual appearance on Sunday on ABC`s "This Week" guest-hosted by -- now, let me check the name again -- Barbara Walters, right. She must be new on TV.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA WALTERS, ABC ANCHOR: This is pretty raw stuff. Ok.
BROWN: Cosmo in 1980 I did "Cosmo" let`s not get carried away here.
WALTERS: Yes but that`s ok.
BROWN: I think if someone`s qualified, regardless of what they did in their youth. We all make mistakes. I`m not perfect.
And do I regret doing that? No. Because if I hadn`t done that I`ve never would have been sitting here with you. It`s all connected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Joining me to discuss this appearance are Arianna Huffington, the co-founder and managing editor of the Huffington Post, and CNN political correspondent Candy Crowley, the new host of CNN "State of the Union".
Ladies, Arianna, Brown says he wouldn`t be where he is today without that "Cosmo" spread which I thought was an odd thing to say. Is that truth or spin? What does it mean?
ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: You know what, I actually believe that whatever we do in our lives, especially in our failure, somehow are all connected to the successes we have.
Certainly is true in my own life. I tell my daughters that all the time. Don`t be afraid of trying something that doesn`t work. In his case, that was a pretty good centerfold. I don`t know precisely how it led him to be the senator-elect from Massachusetts. But I believe him. There is a kind of magic to these connections in our lives.
BEHAR: That`s interesting. Candy, do you -- do you think that youthful indiscretions now mean nothing in politics anymore?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it probably depends on the indiscretion. But somebody posing naked with a staple in the appropriate place doesn`t count anymore, you know? And we have too many mature indiscretions going on now to worry about what somebody did, you know, 20, 25 years ago and you just talked about that.
And so yes, I think, depending on what it is, you certainly can get by it in a way that maybe you always weren`t in a time that was more sensitive to these sort of things.
BEHAR: I think also the fact that he`s relaxed about it.
CROWLEY: Right.
BEHAR: And he`s not making a big thing...
HUFFINGTON: Absolutely.
BEHAR: ...it probably helps.
CROWLEY: Yes.
BEHAR: Now, Brown also talked about his views on abortion. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Roe v. Wade is the law of the land. But I think we need to do more to reduce the amount of abortions. And the difference between me and maybe others is that I`m very -- I`m against partial birth abortions. I`m against federal funding of abortions. And I believe in a strong parental consent notification law. And we should do more for adoptions.
WALTERS: But you`re still pro choice?
BROWN: Yes. Because I feel this issue is best handled between a woman and her doctor and her family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Wow. It should be handled between a woman and her doctor and her family. I don`t think I`ve ever heard a Republican say those words before. Have you, Arianna?
HUFFINGTON: Oh, yes. There are pro choice Republicans. We just don`t hear as much from them. But he`s a pro choice Republican from Massachusetts. You know? And obviously he is not an arch conservative. But what was interesting, is when Barbara asked him about "don`t ask, don`t tell," which he wants to actually end, he was very wishy-washy. And that kind of concerns me.
Already, before he`s even in Washington, he`s beginning to adopt some of the Washington ways of trying to have it both ways. And that will be a shame, because part of what made him appealing was this kind of easy way he had about him and his occasional independence.
BEHAR: Right.
Candy, I was going to go there. And I mean, once he goes to Washington, it`s all going to change, isn`t it?
CROWLEY: Well, it does change. I think there`s -- it`s kind of like you know how your mother always used to say, now there`s a certain way you talk when your grandmother is in the room and then there`s a way you talk with your brothers.
So I think it`s kind of the same way. In his state, he is almost the perfect Republican. He has some moderate to more liberal social views depending on where you are on the conservative side of things. But he remains a fiscal conservative as far as we can tell.
He will change, but also there are those within the Republican Party who are going to look at Scott Brown as proof positive that, in fact, the Republican Party doesn`t have to go hard right to be successful, particularly in places like Massachusetts. So it will be interesting to watch him as he comes up against the Republicans in some of these votes. But fiscally and that`s what this year it`s all about, those fiscal votes, he`s going to be with them.
I think just on the "don`t ask, don`t tell," what a lot of Republicans I`ve found have been doing when I`ve talked to them over the past couple of weeks is waiting to hear the military. They`re kind of waiting for that sign off.
BEHAR: Ok.
Also in that same show, a debate broke out between two of Barbara`s guests. One was Fox News president Roger Ailes. And the other one was you, Arianna. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUFFINGTON: There`s a tradition, as the historian Richard Hofstadter said, in American politics of the paranoid style. And the paranoid style is dangerous. When there`s real pain out there. I mean...
ROGER AILES, PRESIDENT FOX NEWS: I agree with you. I read something on your blog that said I looked like J. Edgar Hoover, I had a face like a fist and I was essentially a malignant tumor.
HUFFINGTON: Well that`s...
AILES: And I thought and then it got nasty after that.
HUFFINGTON: Well, that was never from anybody that we approved.
AILES: And then it really went nasty and I thought, gee, maybe Arianna ought to cut this out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Arianna clear this whole thing up now. Because I read the transcript now of the writer, the blogger, and it`s -- Roger just distorted the whole thing as far as I could tell.
HUFFINGTON: Yes, well, first of all, there`s a big distinction between who your anchors are, who are your employees and what they are saying and what your bloggers are saying. And in our case, of course, what he said, what our blogger as he was quoting said, was started by Roger, because he never called him a tumor.
He said Fox was a tumor, on American society, which is a legitimate view that many people hold.
But more important is the fact that Roger never really answered my fundamental charge which is that there`s Glenn Beck warning his audience that they are going to be the next victim of the killing spree and that they are going to be slaughtered. That health care is -- health care reform is going to be the end of America as we know it.
Now, you could say these are just fantastical statements but at a time of real pain, at a time of real anxiety out there, it is dangerous to be making statements like that that are completely paranoid based on no fact at all. And Roger actually said that when Glenn Beck made the statements, he was referring to Stalin and Hitler.
Well, we have on the side Glenn Beck saying these things and he wasn`t referring to Stalin or Hitler. He was referring to the Obama administration.
BEHAR: You know as long as Glenn Beck gets those ratings Roger Ailes is going to defend him. That`s the way it goes.
Let me just end this interview with Candy because this is kind of a special day because you`re going to be starting a new talk show on Sunday and we`re all excited for you. You`re the first woman on Sunday talk to be hosting a show.
CROWLEY: It`s pretty exciting. What`s interesting though is when I first -- I do want to give a shout out to Cokie Roberts who co-hosted the ABC "Sunday Show" with Sam Donaldson for a time. I`m told Lesley Stahl at one point for a short period of time did host the CBS Sunday venue.
But it is -- it is tremendously exciting. But I thought of it first as a journalist. And then my mailbox got flooded with hip-hip hoorays from very young women. And I was -- that surprised more than anything. I expected to hear from women my age but I didn`t expect to hear it from young people.
BEHAR: You`re a great role model. But stay right there. We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: America.
Oh my goodness. That was awesome. Give it up for Rush Limbaugh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Wow, TMZ caught Rush Limbaugh dancing to Lady Gaga at the Miss America contest on TLC this weekend.
I`m back with my panel. Arianna, where did he get that fist bump, "The Jersey Shore"? I mean did you see him over there on the left? Bouncing around.
HUFFINGTON: There was a tiny bit of heckling not as much as I thought. But it`s just another indication that he is a divisive figure, even at the pageant where they invited him to be a judge. Remember, the NFL would not accept him as an owner and it consists almost entirely of white Republican multimillionaires.
BEHAR: Yes. Candy, since when are beauty pageants the gathering place for conservatives? This seems like it should be Democrats in this kind of thing.
CROWLEY: Certainly -- just the whole idea that you could get Lady Gaga, the Miss America pageant and Rush Limbaugh all in the same sentence says something about how wonderful a story that is.
BEHAR: That`s true.
Now, some people actually booed Limbaugh when Gretchen Carlson introduced him. This is from TLC. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRETCHEN CARLSON, CO-HOST, MISS AMERICA PAGENT: From the field of communications and interviews, the outspoken star of "The Rush Limbaugh Show", Rush Limbaugh. Hey, Rush.
RUSH LIMBAUGH, HOST, "THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW": How you doing, Gretchen?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. They`re booing him. Has he lost his mojo with these audiences, Candy?
CROWLEY: No. No, I don`t think so. He is a very solid -- the key there is outspoken. You`re never -- you`re going to go very few places that is homogenous in terms of the politics of it; doesn`t totally surprise me. But he chooses to be outspoken.
What I found about people like Rush Limbaugh and others who are very much identified with hardened position on either the right or the left is they thrive on that. That doesn`t bother them to be booed. It`s kind of a part of their thing. They expect it in some ways.
BEHAR: Right, it`s like being -- yes, go ahead, Arianna.
HUFFINGTON: I think it`s really important to make a distinction between strong positions based on fact and strong positions based on fantasy. And that`s really the problem with Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck, you know, that they are basically saying anything. It doesn`t matter if it`s based in reality or not. That`s a distinction we all need to be very conscious of.
It`s not just what political perspective you`re endorsing. But is what you are saying factual?
BEHAR: So I guess making stuff up is still protected by the first amendment, right? So their stupid speech, then we can counteract it with what we say, isn`t that how it works?
HUFFINGTON: Exactly. But at least we should counteract it.
But you know before we leave, I just want to say that my favorite thing about Candy getting this job is the fact that she announced to the world that she was looking at her life. Remember, after the campaign, you started meditating, Candy, you took care of your health and yourself. And it`s great to see those things being rewarded. Because as we are getting more and more women to try for better and better jobs, you know, it`s important to realize we don`t have to give up our own work life balance to do that.
CROWLEY: That`s true.
BEHAR: I know Congratulations, Candy.
CROWLEY: Thank you so much.
BEHAR: It`s a really great thing.
CROWLEY: Thank you all.
BEHAR: And you`re just the best reporter.
CROWLEY: Thank you dear friend.
BEHAR: And thank you, Arianna, as usual, fabulous. Thank you, ladies.
Michael Jackson`s kids accepted an award at the Grammys last night. We`ll decide if it was touching or tacky, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The Grammy awards aired last night. And the show included plenty of over the top performances including an appearance by Michael Jackson`s kids, Prince, Michael, and Paris. Who took off their veils long enough to accept a lifetime achievement award in his honor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED: We`d like to thank God for watching over us for these past seven months. And our grandma and grandpa for their love and support. We would also -- we`d also like to thank the fans, our father loved you so much. Because you were always there for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So, was it a touching tribute to the king of pop or are these kids being exploited by the Jackson family in an effort to keep them in the spotlight? Here to discuss are Andy Borowitz from borowitzreport.com. Paula Froelick, former editor of Page Six. And Rob Shuter, Popeater columnist. You know, all the time that Michael was alive, these kids were under veils and under wraps and now they`re out there. There`s something weird about it. I don`t think Michael would have liked it.
PAULA FROELICK, FORMER EDITOR OF PAGE SIX: I don`t think so either. I mean there`s something nice that they`ve finally taken off the bursa.
BEHAR: Yes.
FROELICK: But you know on a separate note, the thing is, he always wanted them out of the spotlight. He didn`t want them raised the way that he was.
BEHAR: Yes.
FROELICK: And all of a sudden, you`ve got Joe Jackson saying, they`ve got great voices, it`s in the genes. Because they`re not biological.
BEHAR: Well according to reports, they are his children, are they not?
FROELICK: Well I think they`re his legally. But I don`t see a family resemblance.
ROB SHUTER, POPEATER COLUMNIST: Well it`s a little surprising when a 12-year-old boy has a lower voice than their father. Like he was much deeper than Michael. However, I thought it was awfully touching. I got all --
BEHAR: You got verklempt?
SHUTER: I got verklempt.
ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: It was touching, but on the same level, I just sort of felt like these kids have been through so much, should they be subjected to Taylor Swift`s duet with the girl from Fleetwood Mac?
BEHAR: Or pink`s water hole thing.
BOROWITZ: Oh I know.
BEHAR: The Cirque de Soleil thing.
SHUTER: It`s like Rehamas and Trevor please. It`s like water. I thought the kids were great.
BEHAR: Do they have any talent, these kids? It looks as though they`re being groomed for some sort of talent thing.
SHUTER: If I was Madonna`s daughter, I`d be worried. Like Paris Jackson is going to be a superstar.
FROELICK: Stop, send them to school. Let them be regular kids. Oh come on.
BEHAR: And what about little blanket? Where was little blanket?
SHUTER: If you noticed, he was back stage, he was mentioned to go on but on the eleventh hour -
FORELICK: Oh oh, oh oh.
SHUTER: He got to nervous. He was meant to go on. He decided not to go out there.
BEHAR: That`s a signal for Joe Jackson to push the kid out there.
FROELICK: Blanket`s still in the burqa.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: As long as he`s not under a quilt. Let`s jump to another topic. On Friday, CBS turned down a super bowl ad for man crunch. A gay dating website. I love that name, ManCrunch, don`t you? Sounds like Larry Craig`s favorite candy bar. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what I`m talking about, baby. You suck! Yeah. That`s right. I want to kiss this guy I really, really, really want to kiss this guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Right, so should CBS have turned down the spot? Especially after initially okaying a controversial pro-life ad a few weeks back?
BOROWITZ: No, this is so hypocritical. You know their going to mix this ad and then CBS is going to show three hours of guys in tight pants slapping each other on the butt.
BEHAR: Exactly. Exactly.
BOROWITZ: You know, to me, the super bowl is one long gay dating ad. I mean, I am straight, but after watching the super bowl, I want to call up a few guys.
BEHAR: I know.
BOROWITZ: It just puts me in a gay dating mood.
BEHAR: Exactly, they can have the penetration in the end zone.
SHUTER: Oh, right.
BEHAR: You know?
(CROSSTALK)
SHUTER: I thought it was right they turned it down. I think it`s the best thing for this ad. We`re all talking about it. They saved themselves $500,000.
BOROWITZ: That`s true. Right.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
SHUTER: They`re getting more press then you can ever imagine.
BOROWITZ: Man Crunch is now one of my favorites on my computer because of that.
FROELICK: Yes but you don`t think it`s hypocritical at all that they`re having this pro-life ad? And that - so they`re already into politics. They`re doing a pro-life ad featuring the Tivo. And by the way, the story is coming under question as to whether the mother was told to have an abortion or not. And you just go, come on this is ridiculous.
BEHAR: Right.
FROELICK: Not to mention, I didn`t realize, like, the advertising community was so security right now, you could be turning down ads.
SHUTER: Right.
FROELICK: I just spent a week at Sundance with a bunch of advertisers saying, we`re not doing it, it`s too expensive.
BEHAR: Well they`re saying that it didn`t meet network standards.
FROELICK: I don`t understand why not.
BEHAR: Two men jumping on each other.
(CROSSTALK)
SHUTER: -- not going to start jumping on each other because of this ad.
BOROWITZ: Well speak for yourself. I found it very inspiring.
BEHAR: Well doesn`t it make CBS look homophobic?
FROELICK: A little bit.
SHUTER: ABC when they canceled Adam Lambert, like you know.
FROELICK: Oh, stop.
SHUTER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
FROELICK: CBS has "Two and A Half Men." where they`re ogling women. But yet two guys can`t -- they don`t even show them kissing. They just show a guy lunging over.
BEHAR: Right. Well that seems to be okay.
BOROWITZ: Whisper.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: To molest women but not two men molesting each other.
SHUTER: Yes.
BEHAR: Okay let`s talk about MTV`s "The Jersey Shore." the kids accepted $10,000 per episode. Though what`s more shocking to me is the fact 5 million people a day are watching this show. So much for the apocalypse not coming until 2012. Can you believe how popular this show is?
BOROWITZ: Yes, well, you know, $10,000 though, these kids have tremendous expenses. I mean since the show has gone on the price of gel has sky rocketed.
BEHAR: Gel, yes.
BOROWITZ: Absolutely so there`s that. And you know the guy, the situation, he has all the abs to feed. I think that it`s worthwhile.
BEHAR: Did you see them this morning? They were on the "Today" show. Take a look at this first and then we`ll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED: I just think it`s different. It`s a different show. You put a bunch of, like, teenage people together, we`re in our 20s and stuff. In the summer and the Jersey Shore. We are just having a good time. There`s no other show around here that`s like that. This is different.
We`re raw, very raw.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know --
BOROWITZ: It`s like Winston Churchill really.
BEHAR: Exactly. But can I say au contraire? I like to say au contraire because I grew up with exactly those types. They`re not that different. I`ve seen it. Maybe in Montana it`s different.
SHUTER: Maybe they`re thinking of about moving them to the Hamptons or somewhere so that they are different for the next season.
FROELICK: Oh gosh, can you imagine the Hamptons? Going to get even worse traffic.
BEHAR: But I mean they`re getting $10,000 an episode.
FROELICK: That`s nothing though. Look at what "The Hills" are getting. The Hills gets half the rating. And they`re getting paid $100,000 per cast member.
BOROWITZ: You know people say that you know, teachers get a fraction of that. But I think we should do everything to discourage this cast from teaching our children.
BEHAR: That`s true.
BOROWITZ: I think it`s a good thing.
BEHAR: Overpay them. They`ll say, teaching, no.
BOROWITZ: Keep them out of the teaching profession.
BEHAR: That`s a good point. But I mean it`s a lot of people watching that.
BOROWITZ: Absolutely.
BEHAR: They`re tapping into something.
FROELICK: Yes but here`s the deal. The thing is, that the cast members are actually likable on some level.
BEHAR: They`re likable, yeah.
FROELICK: Like you watch them and you`re just like, oh, Snooki with that coach back.
BOROWITZ: I wish she would learn how to duck though.
FROELICK: Why is she always getting punched?
BOROWITZ: I don`t know.
BEHAR: But they seem to be having sex a lot.
BOROWITZ: They do.
BEHAR: Which is really a bad thing to put out there. I mean, come on. Unprotected -- no, come on. Kids in the hot tub. Unprotected sex that way.
(CROSSTALK)
BOROWITZ: It`s true, it`s true but isn`t that what sells?
SHUTER: He seems like a great guy.
FROELICK: Oh, stop, he seems like walking herpes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I should say, they`re doing all sorts of things they shouldn`t be doing.
FROELICK: Yes, but isn`t that what youth is all about, Joy?
BEHAR: Well I don`t know, I must have missed the boat, and I resent it. Frankly.
FROELICK: Come back with us, we can get you a spot in that house, I know Desanto.
BEHAR: What is "The Hills," I`ve never actually seen "The Hills."
FROELICK: Yes, you know what -
SHUTER: They`re rich kids in Beverly Hills driving around in Mercedes. It`s almost the other extreme opposite Vishire.
FROELICK: It`s actually not all that interesting either. They all just sit there and so -
SHUTER: And pochie Guccie.
FROELICK: Yes, exactly.
BOROWITZ: That`s really damning to say less interesting than "The Jersey Shore."
FROELICK: Stop. Do you not watch "The Jersey Shore"?
FROELICK: You know I sort of go back and forth between that and Man Crunching. That`s pretty much what I do.
BEHAR: And just remember, all you kids out there, here`s what you can learn from "The Jersey Shore." don`t study hard, sleep around, get drunk with your friends at the beach all day and good things will come to you. Okay? Okay, thanks everyone, up next, former pastor Ted Haggard had an affair with a man but his wife didn`t leave him. I`ll ask her why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Jenny Samford and Elizabeth Edwards left their husbands after their affairs with other women became public. But Gayle Haggard, wife of the former pastor Ted Haggard, stayed with her husband after his lowered liaison with another man. A lot of people wanted to know why she decided against divorce so I`m going to ask her. With me now is Gayle Haggard, wife of former pastor Ted Haggard, and the author of "Why I Stayed: The Choices I Made in My Darkest Hour". Welcome to the show Gayle, can I call you Gayle instead of Mrs. Haggard?
GAYLE HAGGARD, WIFE OF FORMER PASTOR TED HAGGARD: Oh please call me Gayle. Thank you.
BEHAR: Okay. You know before we even go into this book, I have to tell you, I was reading a transcript from Larry King`s interview with you and your husband. And he said that you were a combination of mother Teresa, Margaret Thatcher. And Golda Meir.
HAGGARD: Quite a compliment from my husband.
BEHAR: So I - well mother Teresa because you`re very giving I would presume. Right?
HAGGARD: I think, yes.
BEHAR: And Margaret Thatcher because you`re strong. And Gold a Mayer, do you make a good mozzarella soup or something?
HAGGARD: I think he just admires her, he admires her strength.
BEHAR: He admires her strength, huh.
HAGGARD: Yes.
BEHAR: Okay. Now, so, I want to read from the book, the moment after he told you that he was -- had had this affair with a guy. Okay. "Tears rolled down his cheeks while life continued to seep out of my body. I felt myself trembling, tears flooded my eyes and my throat tightened until I could barely get out the words "who are you." I sobbed from the depths of my soul. Who are you indeed." That must have been something.
HAGGARD: Well, I was shocked. I didn`t - I could not put this together with the man that I knew. I had admired my husband, loved my husband, all those years. And I just didn`t have a place for this.
BEHAR: But so you had no indication before that that he had had these affairs with men. I mean, it came out of the blue?
HAGGARD: Well, as far as affairs go, I think of that in terms of a relationship. He did have some encounters.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
HAGGARD: And in hindsight certainly I saw that there were some indications along the way. I think he did try to tell me.
BEHAR: Really.
HAGGARD: But I didn`t understand the gravity of the situation.
BEHAR: What did he say?
HAGGARD: Well, very early in our marriage, he told me about an encounter that he had had in the first few years of our marriage. And he told me a year after the encounter. And he just wanted to confess it to me. And I tell this story in the book. And at the time, it was very difficult. But I forgave him. I saw it as something in the past that he had dealt with. I really did not understand the gravity of that time.
BEHAR: It`s interesting you forgave him. Would you have forgiven him so easily if it was a woman?
HAGGARD: People ask me that all the time. I do not know. I know that would probably bring forth different emotions than I had to deal with in this.
BEHAR: Well what did you think when he told you at that time? What went through your mind? My husband who I`ve been sleeping with, I have children -- I don`t know if you have children at that point but I presume you had sexual relations with your husband. Now he tells me he went off with a man. I mean, what went through your head?
HAGGARD: At that point, he just said -- he was take classes in another city and had been there and he had gone into an adult book store and had had an encounter. And I`ll leave it at that. But he had felt a tremendous guilt over it. And had come back, stopped taking classes, stopped going to that city, and saw a counselor about it.
BEHAR: Stay out of book stores also.
HAGGARD: Absolutely. Hear hear.
BEHAR: Okay. Now, an accuser couple forward. His name was Mike Jones. And he accused your husband of the affair, of the recent thing that broke up the marriage -- sort of through a whammy into the marriage. Let`s put it that way, it didn`t break it up.
HAGGARD: Okay.
BEHAR: Let`s watch what he said.
(BEGIN VIDE CLIP)
MIKE JONES: People may look at me and what I`ve done as immoral. But I think I had to do the moral thing in my mind and that is expose someone who is preaching one thing but doing the opposite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Okay. Now, this guy`s basically saying that your husband is a hypocrite. I mean, I`m sure you heard this before.
HAGGARD: Yes.
BEHAR: That he preached against gay rights I guess in the church that he was in. And then he was secretly having these liaisons with men. So is there any validity to that kind of accusation do you think?
HAGGARD: Well I think, the thing I appreciate is the fact that he did bring it out into the open. Because my husband did need to face this and deal with it openly and deal with it openly with me. However, I think so much of what he said was an exaggeration and my husband did take several lie detector tests, as did Mike Jones. Mike Jones lie detector test proved him to show deception. My husband`s showed him to be very truthful in everything he said.
BEHAR: Your husband was truthful, Jones was not.
HAGGARD: Correctly. Correct. So that`s something I get into much more in the book. But there was a problem. And my husband needed to face it. And I`m really grateful that we`ve gone through this process.
BEHAR: Well, I`m sure it`s been painful. It`s been so public. You were kicked out of the church. I mean, it`s been I would think a terrible time for you.
HAGGARD: Well, for three years it was a terrible time. I felt as though everything that I cared about was ripped from me. My marriage as I knew it. The dignity of my children. My faith. I had to walk through a process of really questioning what is true. And the church that we devoted 22 years of our lives with, we were separated from. That was not by the will of the people. But others made that decision.
BEHAR: Who made that decision?
HAGGARD: There were overseers. There were leaders that came in and made that decision to separate us.
BEHAR: But you and your husband started that church, didn`t you in a very small way, and then it grew?
HAGGARD: We did. We started it in the basement of our home and devoted 22 years and loved it and felt very loved by the people and we loved the people.
BEHAR: Yeah.
HAGGARD: But Ted -- Ted wanted to cooperate. He wanted to show that he was -- he was truly repentant for what he`d done. It had been a private battle but now it was made public and he wanted to show this is not my choice. This is not something I want to continue on in my life. I feel as though I`ve been trapped.
BEHAR: But, you know, you mean the homosexuality?
HAGGARD: Yes. Partly that and partly the fact he was lying. He was keeping that a secret.
BEHAR: Yes. I don`t think homosexuality is a choice. Do you?
HAGGARD: No, I don`t think it`s a choice. But I do think it`s a condition. And I think that --
BEHAR: What kind of a condition? Like a rash?
HAGGARD: Well, I think -- No, not like a rash. But, but, I think we do have the science and the psychology to prove our sexuality does develop through conditioning in our lives and there can be any number of factors.
BEHAR: Really?
HAGGARD: With our physical factors. There can be experiential factors. But all of us are conditioned in our sexuality. Our heterosexuality, our homosexuality or bisexuality --
BEHAR: But how do you --
HAGGARD: It`s based on -- many times, it`s based on experiences that we`ve had.
BEHAR: Well I think that`s sort of scientifically up in the air. A lot of people are believing it`s something you`re born with.
HAGGARD: But that -
BEHAR: That you don`t choose -- who would choose a lifestyle to be vilified by the churches?
HAGGARD: Exactly. I don`t think anybody would choose that.
BEHAR: Right.
HAGGARD: Here`s what I really appreciate, is the fact that we are -- we all have this human condition.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
BEHAR: And that god sees us that way. And he has compassion on us.
BEHAR: Well, hope so.
HAGGARD: Has understanding. Right. Now, his ways, though -- the bible tells us his ways are higher than our ways. And so when Ted would teach about homosexuality, he would teach, these are God`s ways. But --
BEHAR: What was he teaching --
HAGGARD: We have to be compassionate with our human condition. My husband, was about, is kind hearted person and compassionate, and merciful a person. I think as I`ve known.
BEHAR: Well I`ve seen the documentary about him and he seems like a very nice guy. And you know, he`s struggling, he`s struggling.
HAGGARD: He never spoke against any people group. I think he`s been characterized that way but it`s not true.
BEHAR: Okay we`re going to come back with more from Gayle Haggard in a minute. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PASTOR TED HAGGARD: I made the worst mistake of my life. I embarrassed my wife and everybody in my life. I did some things that were contrary to the things that I believe. And I made a mess of my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well, that was former pastor Ted Haggard reflecting on his former sexually liaison. I`m back with his wife, Gayle Haggard who decided against divorcing him. You decided that`s it, you`re not divorcing the guy unlike Elizabeth Edwards who is now separate legally from her husband and Jenny Sanford who walked away also, what do you think about that case?
HAGGARD: Well I think that each case is unique. I think with Jenny Sanford and I deeply admire these women. But I think with Jenny Sanford, she did offer her husband the opportunity to walk away from the other woman and to -- she gave him some guidelines and
BEHAR: Yes.
HAGGARD: I`ll stay, I`ll work on the marriage but he wouldn`t. And so she didn`t have many options there. And Elizabeth Edwards, I just don`t think we know enough about that story. But it seems like a very painful story what -
BEHAR: It`s pretty sorted.
HAGGARD: She`s walked into. But I know in my situation, I was able to make the choices I made because of the choices my husband made.
BEHAR: Well yes.
HAGGARD: He was choosing me. He was saying I want to rescue our marriage.
BEHAR: Uh huh, is he trying to be straight now? Well, here is what Ted went through, what Ted was healed from was the trauma of his childhood.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
HAGGARD: That`s what he dealt with in counseling.
BEHAR: What was the trauma?
MRS. HAGGARD: Once that was -- he was abused by a man who worked for his dad.
BEHAR: Sexually molested.
HAGGARD: He was sexually molested when he was in the seventh grade.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
HAGGARD: And so because that was never dealt with in his life, and he tried to bury that, it would come out, especially in his adult years, in the form of unwanted intrusive thoughts and that led him to temptation and he succumbed to those temptations. On a few accusations.
BEHAR: I don`t want to leave the conversation with people thinking that gays have to be molested in order to become --
HAGGARD: Absolutely not -
BEHAR: Because it`s not true. I mean most of the gay guys that I know were not molested, were not abused. And they`re still guy. They were gay when they were two.
HAGGARD: That`s not true. Exactly. I am no expert on that subject.
BEHAR: Yes.
HAGGARD: All I know is our story. And it is also a valid part of the mix.
BEHAR: Yes.
HAGGARD: And so what I don`t like is when people hyper categorize people. That they think is if they see one or two actions that leads to this category where they belong, and so what I want is for people to be more understanding and compassionate and respectful of individuals in their own unique stories.
BEHAR: Well that would be nice. And it would be nice that if the church that threw you out would be so Christian in their thinking -
HAGGARD: Now the church didn`t throw us out but it - it`s -
BEHAR: On the documentary, your husband was selling insurance because he wouldn`t stay at the church anymore.
HAGGARD: That`s right.
BEHAR: They were not very nice to him.
HAGGARD: Well I keep wanting to emphasize, it wasn`t the people of the church. Because I think had they been given -
BEHAR: Well who was it really?
HAGGARD: The opportunity, they would have embraced this. Well it was certain leaders and I think it`s a way of thinking in the church that I challenge in my book because I say this is a representative of Jesus.
BEHAR: That`s true.
HAGGARD: What Jesus teaches is compassion, he teaches forgiveness, he teaches love and he teaches the fact that every one of us is a sinner -
BEHAR: You know that is a very -
HAGGARD: Something wrong.
BEHAR: You must say that because, you know, Jesus would have embraced homosexuals and the Christian right does not.
HAGGARD: That`s true.
BEHAR: And so I don`t think that they`re practicing what Jesus practiced.
HAGGARD: Jesus hung out with the so-called sinners. It`s those that he felt that didn`t fit in.
BEHAR: Okay. Thanks so much for doing this with me Gayle.
HAGGARD: Thank you.
BEHAR: Good luck with the book. Her book is "Why I Stay". Good night, everybody.
END
