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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Self-Help Guru Charged with Manslaughter; "30 Rock" Star Needs Kidney Transplant
Aired February 4, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, breaking news -- 10 Americans are now charged with kidnapping Haitian children. The missionaries could end up in prison for decades. Haiti's prime minister is here in his first interview since they were formally charged and he's not holding back.
Plus, self-help guru James Ray -- once the picture of success, now the focus of an alleged crime. The man who had thousands of followers is being led into court into shackles. Ray's attorney will join us in a prime time exclusive and claims his client is not guilty in the deaths of three people in a sweat lodge.
And then, a "30 Rock" star is in need of a kidney transplant and he could die if he doesn't get one.
Next on LARRY KING LIVE.
James Arthur Ray pled not guilty to three counts of manslaughter today in Arizona. He's charged in connection with three deaths that followed a Spiritual Warrior sweat lodge ceremony he held last October in Sedona. Ray was arrested yesterday. It's quite a fall. The handsome self-help leader was looked a lot -- looked up to by many and now he's wearing a prison jumpsuit.
We're joined by Brad Brian, who's James Ray's attorney.
How's he doing, by the way?
BRAD BRIAN, JAMES RAY'S ATTORNEY: You know, he's doing the best he can. He -- he's been devastated since this thing happened on October -- October 8th.
KING: Bond set at $5 million.
Is he going to post it?
BRIAN: You know, we've got a hearing next week. One of the things that's come out that I think that's -- people should understand, James is not a wealthy guy.
KING: Oh, no?
BRIAN: He's not able to put -- post $5 million in bond. We've made a motion to reduce the -- the bail. He's not at any risk of fleeing the jurisdiction. He looks forward to his day in court and we've got a hearing next Friday with the judge...
KING: To reduce the bond?
BRIAN: Yes. And I hope to tell you...
KING: Meanwhile, he remains incarcerated, too?
BRIAN: He's going to be in jail until then.
KING: Can -- well, you need 10 per -- you -- can he post $500,000?
Can he do that?
BRIAN: You know, he's you've got to post the -- you've got to post cash. You've got to get property. You've got to get friends and family. You know, we're trying to put all that together. But, you know, the -- the bottom line is he doesn't have that kind of disposable cash and -- and property.
KING: He's charged, Brad, with negligent homicide.
Was he surprised that he was charged?
BRIAN: He is surprised. I mean, he -- he's devastated. You know, it's -- this was a tragic accident. Nobody -- nobody, including James, could have foreseen consequences anything like this. And remember, these people who died were his students and his friends.
KING: Does he have any feeling that he had something to do with it going wrong?
BRIAN: Let me put it -- let me put it this way, when this thing happened, he immediately reached out to the families. We've been in conversations with their lawyers, some of whom have filed lawsuits, some of whom haven't. He has been trying to get to the bottom of this. He's been devastated.
So in that sense, you know, he feels like -- he feels a sense of responsibility, in that sense. But that's a lot different than -- than legal liability and certainly criminal liability, which he denies.
KING: All right. Following last October's tragedy in Sedona, CNN's Gary Tuchman did phone and face-to-face interviews with a number of witnesses, one, a former employee of James Ray International; the other, an attendee of the retreat, who describes some of what happened inside the lodge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEVERLY BUNN, SWEAT LODGE PARTICIPANT: He made one comment and they did say, "She's passed out. She's passed out. I don't know if she's breathing." And he said, "The door has now closed and this round has begun. We'll deal with that at the end of this round."
MELINDA MARTIN, FORMER EMPLOYEE AND WITNESS: Bodies everywhere, passed out. I mean and then they -- he walked out of there looking like a million bucks.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What was James Ray doing during this time?
MARTIN: Watching. Standing above and watching. They hosed him down and he said, "Oh, thank you and" -- you know, and then he walked past the guy who was screaming, saying -- he was earlier saying he didn't want to die and please don't let me die.
And when James walked by him, this guy went to -- said to James from his sitting down position, he goes, "I died. I literally died and I came back to life."
And James is like, "Hey, all right, man." He gave him a high five. You know, it was like fantastic. And, James, I think, was completely oblivious to the pandemonium that was taking place around that sweat lodge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: He is denying that, right?
BRIAN: Well, let me -- let me -- let me say a couple of things.
One, James put in place safeguards for this sweat lodge experience that went beyond anything we've been able to uncover. He had a nurse outside the sweat lodge. He had people trained in CPR. He had an aid station. He had people stationed both inside the sweat lodge and outside. This -- this idea that he somehow prevented people from leaving, the facts are that about 20 people left the sweat lodge during the event. About...
KING: The doors were not locked?
BRIAN: The doors were not locked -- it's a tent. Now, there are rounds of the tent and people are encouraged, if they can, to stay. At least one person left during rounds. Of the 20 people who left, five or so came back.
The other thing I think that's -- that just really hasn't been accurate in -- in the press is that, the notion he somehow abandoned people. He didn't. He was in shock. There's no doubt about this. He did not expect anything like this. Nobody did.
But when they -- when they found out there was a problem, they called 911. He and his team tried to take care of people. James himself was holding an IV and was trying to help until the -- the authorities detained him.
KING: Had he done these before -- these sweat lodges? BRIAN: He had -- he had done these, yes.
KING: No incidents before?
BRIAN: Yes. He had had one -- I'll call it -- I don't want to call it minor -- but one incident in 2005 where a gentleman became somewhat disoriented. I mean, these are horrible. These are hot. And -- and one gentleman became disoriented. They calmed him down. They dealt with it. He got some medical care. And then James put in some additional safeguards.
KING: And I want to get this right. In the so-called white papers that the Ray legal team put together in response to what it calls "inaccuracies and innuendo," you make this assertion: "Mr. Ray did not lead or pressure participants into making a choice they otherwise would not have made."
BRIAN: You know, he -- he -- everybody was told about the sweat lodge. Everybody was told it was going to be very, very hot -- very, very difficult. People were given forms. They signed waiver forms. They had -- they did not have to participate. At least one person chose not to. And, as I said, people chose to leave during the sweat lodge. Some stayed out of the sweat lodge. Some came back.
KING: Were -- were any people psychologically pressured not to leave?
If someone said I'm going to leave, were people working on them to say, stay?
BRIAN: Only -- what I would analogize it to is like running a marathon. I've never run a marathon, but I've watched them. And when you get to mile 23, yes, people encourage you to hang in there, you can do it.
So James -- I think we would say James did that. I think others in the sweat lodge, too, encouraged others. There was encouragement, but no compulsion. Everything was voluntary.
KING: Did police -- did people sign a release?
KING: They did?
Saying that he would not be held responsible?
BRIAN: Yes. Yes.
KING: What's the purpose of the sweat lodge?
BRIAN: You know, it's -- it's part of the -- it's part of the one -- the five day experience of the Spiritual Warrior. James' philosophy is -- it's not just thinking great thoughts, it's converting thoughts into action. He motivates people. He wants them to realize that they can push themselves. That's part of what the Spiritual Warrior event is. And the sweat lodge is -- is about that.
You know, sweat lodges are common. High school students in Los Angeles use sweat lodges. Professors use sweat lodges. Professional people use sweat lodges.
KING: They've been successful?
BRIAN: They've been successful.
KING: We'll take a break and come back.
James Ray was on this show a few times. We'll show you one of those clips, when we come back.
KING: James Arthur Ray was a guest on this program several times before the Sedona tragedy. He took part in a discussion of "The Secret."
Here's part of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM MARCH 2007)
JAMES RAY: And I think what we have to understand, Larry, is that there are certain things that we're all designed to do. Not everyone is designed to be president of the United States. Not everyone is designed to be Larry King. Not everyone is designed to be James Ray.
We all have a special purpose and -- and a mission to fulfill in this lifetime. And part of my passion is help peo -- helping people really understand what true wealth is, that state of wellbeing, finding their unique gifts and then using the secret to create the life that they -- that, really, they're meant to -- to...
KING: I got it.
RAY: ...to create and meant to live in this lifetime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: What did it cost to go to this Spiritual Warrior thing?
BRIAN: I think it was a -- I think it was a little over $9,000.
KING: For the week?
BRIAN: For the week.
KING: Do you think that means you're kind of committed and you're agreed -- less inclined to leave if you've shelled out $9,000?
BRIAN: What I think it means is that the people who went to this are -- are largely professionals. I'm not saying that they're rich folks, but they're -- they're people that are not duped. They're people who make voluntary choices. They're looking for the kind of balance, the kind of motivation that James provides.
KING: He told "New York" magazine he left Arizona the morning after the sweat lodge tragedy because he had to drive back to Phoenix to catch a flight. And two participants were dead. One was hospitalized, who later died.
Why didn't he stay?
BRIAN: Well, you've got to understand that -- that despite his efforts, you know, on the day it happened, he was detained by the authorities. And at that point, it had become an investigation. And, you know, they really didn't want -- they being the authorities -- didn't really want him involved in...
KING: They didn't want him around?
BRIAN: They didn't want him involved in the investi -- because any time there's an investigation -- and I'm not, in any way, faulting the police for this -- they don't want the -- the suspect, so to speak, to be sort of mucking around in their investigation.
KING: All right. The three people who died -- Kirby Brown, James Shore, Liz Neuman -- had he met them?
BRIAN: Oh, yes. I mean Liz Neuman had participated in a number of these events before -- a number of these events.
KING: He could face, what, 37 years in prison?
BRIAN: You know, I haven't counted it up, but there's -- he would face some -- some real jail time if he got convicted.
KING: What's your defense, Brad?
I'm what's the...
BRIAN: The def...
KING: ...angle of the defense?
BRIAN: The defense is that this is a tragic accident; that -- that nobody, certainly not James, did not foresee consequences like this. He took, as I said earlier, he took safeguards that, as far as we can tell, are -- go beyond other sweat lodges and, as I say, did not prevent anybody from leaving if they got in trouble.
KING: If the clip we showed of that woman is indicative of the kind of witnesses the prosecution is going to present, you appear to be up against it.
KING: I mean she looked very sin -- you know? BRIAN: Well, one of...
KING: Are you going to have to present other witnesses who say she's not telling the truth or what?
BRIAN: I've been doing this for 30 years and I -- I feel very -- very strongly about our criminal justice system. You know, the government has to prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And this is a -- this should not be a criminal case. This should not be a criminal case. This was an accident. And, you know, I don't want to say that we're looking forward to it, but because we're going to be there, we're confident that if the truth comes out, no crime will be proven here.
KING: Would you agree that it doesn't look good?
KING: In other words, yes, we presume innocence. It's God -- that's the Constitution in America.
But would you agree it doesn't look good?
BRIAN: Three people died.
BRIAN: That's a tragedy. There's no escaping that. James Ray -- I've gotten to know him a -- a lot. And I can say this. He is -- he thinks about those three people every minute of every day since October 8th. He does. He's devastated. And I -- and I really mean that.
KING: Has he paid any civil monies to the deceased victims...
BRIAN: We've had -- we've had meetings...
KING: ...or relatives?
BRIAN: We've had meetings with their lawyers. And we've -- we've begun those discussions. But he's -- you know, he wrote some -- some checks to try to help the families out. But they've not had extensive settlement discussions.
KING: Has he made appearances since, public speaking and the like?
BRIAN: I (INAUDIBLE).
KING: Self-help groups or anything?
BRIAN: You know, he did one program. I think it was -- I think it was one shortly thereafter. And what he soon realized is he really needed to focus all his efforts on -- on getting to the bottom of this and dealing with this and -- and, frankly, trying to help bring this to closure. KING: Would you say you're optimistic?
BRIAN: Yes, I am optimistic. It's a sad situation, so I'm not happy. But as a lawyer, I'm optimistic, but I'm sad as to what happened to those three people and now to my client.
KING: Thanks, Brad.
BRIAN: Thank you.
KING: Brad Brian, attorney for self-help guru, James Arthur Ray.
A "30 Rock" star needs a kidney transplant with no hope on the horizon.
What does he do in the meantime?
We'll ask him in 60 seconds.
KING: Joining us in New York, Grizzwald "Grizz" Chapman. He was a member of the cast of the very popular NBC show, "30 Rock." He plays "Grizz," which was part of Tracy Morgan's character's entourage.
In real life, he is undergoing dialysis waiting for a kidney transplant.
And with him is Kevin Brown, who plays "Dot Com," another member of Tracy Morgan's character's entourage, on "30 Rock." In real life, they are good friends, he and "Grizz".
Now, Grizzwald, how long did this -- when did this kidney problem start?
GRIZZWALD CHAPMAN, "30 ROCK" STAR NEEDS KIDNEY TRANSPLANT: Well, I got diagnosed with hypertension about -- I was about 24 years old. And I was immature and really didn't pay attention to, you know, what -- what the doctors told me. But in -- in a sense, the doctors didn't explain the seriousness of hypertension.
And, you know, no one told me that it was going to affect my kidneys. And, you know, I could -- I could end up having diabetes and things of that nature.
KING: What were you supposed to do that you didn't do that might have prevented this?
CHAPMAN: Well, the first thing, I could have -- I could have kept my weight down.
Secondly, I could have -- it could have saw the signs, you know, because, you know, every -- every person has a bunch of signs that they -- that they get. And, you know, some of the signs are swelling of the ankles; you know, a metallic taste in your mouth; you know, things like that. KING: Yes.
CHAPMAN: And I could have -- you know, I -- I could have just tooken the medicine. But, you know, nobody -- nobody really explained it to me.
KING: Yes. How long -- how long have you been on dialysis?
CHAPMAN: I've been on dialysis right now about two years.
KING: What is it, every other day?
CHAPMAN: I go three times a week at -- excuse me. I go three times a week at three-and-a-half -- no. I go three times a week, four-and-a-half hours a day at the DaVita Dialysis Center.
KING: Kevin, how is your friend doing?
KEVIN BROWN, DOT COM ON "30 ROCK," CHAPMAN'S FRIEND: Well, my friend's doing quite well, believe it or not. But before I answer the question, Tracy Morgan dared me to call you liar. So, liar, my friend -- my friend is hanging in there.
BROWN: Yes, liar. So my friend is...
KING: Kev, you're not able to give -- you're not able to give your friend one of your kidneys?
BROWN: Well, you know what, we haven't gotten to that point yet, you know?
The point that we were at for the last, I guess, year now, is getting "Grizz" to the right weight, where the doctors would even agree to do the surgery.
Are you following what I'm saying?
BROWN: So that was the big thing...
KING: So, "Grizz," you have to be lighter in order to get a kidney?
CHAPMAN: When I -- when I -- when I first came down with -- with the sickness, I was -- currently, I was 505 pounds. And they will not...
CHAPMAN: ...I repeat, they will not do the kidney transplant at that weight. So I had to -- I had to, you know, bring myself down to a reasonable weight, anywhere from 300 to 350 pounds, in order to have the -- the kidney transplant.
KING: What are you now?
CHAPMAN: I'm actually right now at 350.
KING: Kevin, if you -- what do you -- what do you have to match, blood type?
What has to match to make someone a kidney donor?
BROWN: Well, from -- from what I understand, they do like three months of extensive testing. So it's just a matter of, you know, getting the opportunity to, you know, go through whatever -- whatever phases. But it's not -- it's not a simple thing. I don't think it's as simple as, hey, his blood is this and his blood is that and we just, you know, do the transplant.
KING: All right.
Would you be a donor if you could be a donor?
BROWN: Well, you know what, yes. I have -- I have absolutely considered it. And, you know, we -- we've really just got to see, you know. We've got to see if I'm healthy enough, because, you know, "Grizz" just sort of spoke over the being the 500 pounds when we met. And that was in 2006 when we first met doing the -- the pilot of "30 Rock."
And we both had problems, you know, with our weight. I wasn't as -- you know, I wasn't as heavy as he was, but for him to get down and lose 150 pounds was very impressive. And I wanted to join him in his struggle to lose the weight. So I recently started NutriSystem just so I could lose the weight and sort of, you know, give him that moral support -- hey, you're not the only one trying to lose the weight, I'm trying to lose it.
Well, "Grizz" -- "Grizz," have you got other people who are desirous of giving you one of their kidneys?
CHAPMAN: Well, I had a few people. After -- after I did the -- after I did the -- "The Dr. Oz Show," a bunch of people came out and was willing to give me a kidney. But, you know, like Kevin said, at that point, I wasn't the weight. So now this is...
KING: But now you are.
CHAPMAN: Now -- now I am. So now it's just a process of getting the right person to -- to donate the kidney, because being that I'm -- I'm a larger -- I'm a larger man, you know, I just can't take a smaller person's kidney, because everybody's...
KING: I'll bet.
CHAPMAN: ...kidney is the size of their -- the size of their fist. And, you know, you see here, I have a -- I have a pretty big fist. So I'm going to need a pretty big -- you know, a decent sized kidney.
KING: A pretty big kidney.
KING: What happens if "Grizz" doesn't get one?
That's our scenario.
And that's next.
KING: "Grizz" Chapman, what happens if you don't get a kidney?
CHAPMAN: Well, if I don't get a kidney, I'll be on dialysis for the rest of my life.
KING: And that can be trying, can it not?
CHAPMAN: It's -- it's definitely trying. You know -- you know, some days, you know, I'll be so tired, you know, after -- after the dialysis. It just -- it just drains your body so much. That's why -- you know, that was one of the biggest reasons why I came out to bring awareness to the situation, because there's so many people -- there's 26 million people walking around today that have chronic kidney disease and they're not even aware of it.
So, you know, I just...
CHAPMAN: ...I just felt, you know, if I have my 15 seconds of fame, I can come out and I can -- I can tell my community, you know, go out, get yourself checked. You know, the National Kidney Foundation, they'll -- they'll -- they'll check -- they'll check you for free. They have a program called the KEEP Program. You know, this is kidney -- it's Kidneys Early Evaluation Program. And you can go on Kidney.org and you can go on Kidney.org...
CHAPMAN: You can go on Kidney.org...
KING: All right...
CHAPMAN: ...and you can check out, in your community, where they'll test you for free.
KING: To go.
Kevin is the cast is -- is Tina Fey, Alec Baldwin, all the rest, getting behind "Grizz" in this?
BROWN: Well, absolutely. You know, what we found out was one of the brothers of one of the executive producers has kidney issues, also. So they did an episode -- I think it was season three -- where it was a kidney telethon or something like that. So one of the things that we were concerned about when "Grizz" first found out that this had happened was, how is the show going to act?
How are going to treat him?
Are they going to let him get the time to go do his dialysis?
But before we found out, they told us we were part of the family and they really stuck by that, you know?
Whenever he has to go do his dialysis or has an appointment or something like that, they will juggle the schedule and give him all the time he needs to get...
KING: That's great.
BROWN: ...you know, proper medical attention. Tina is great. Alec is great. Tracy's great. They've all been very supportive.
KING: People watching, "Grizz," who may want to offer help, may want to offer a kidney, who do they contact?
CHAPMAN: You can contact the National Kidney Foundation or you can go on Kidney.org. They have, you know, all the information there and they'll take you...
KING: They know all about you?
CHAPMAN: Repeat that?
KING: They know all about you?
Supposing a very heavy-set person wants to volunteer to be tested on giving you a kidney.
He or she could contact that foundation?
CHAPMAN: Yes, they can contact the National Kidney Foundation or they can go to their local hospitals and, you know, they'll -- they'll take care of you.
KING: They know your case?
BROWN: Can I jump in, Larry?
KING: Yes, quickly, Kev. BROWN: You can also contact NBC. NBC knows how to find us, if you want to offer a kidney.
KING: All right. That's simple.
KING: All right. Go to NBC.
KING: They'll take your call.
BROWN: NBC.com, yes, and say I want to give "Grizz" a kidney.
KING: All right, "Grizz" a kidney, NBC.com. Let's get in line.
Grizzwald "Grizz" Chapman and Kevin Brown, you love them on the show, why not help them now?
Now it's time for heroes. This week, we salute a 2007 hero currently working amid tragedy in Haiti.
Before the earthquake, Bobby Duval was serving about 1,500 kids from nearby slums in his sports and feeding program. Now his center is also home to more than 100 homeless families.
Tonight, CNN honors Bobby Duval and his enduring organization, Athletes of Haiti.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): More than two weeks after the earthquake, Bobby Duval is overwhelmed. The soccer field he built for kids is now a home for hundreds.
BOBBY DUVAL: It's really something. We were already in a hole. Now we are deep -- in a much deeper hole now.
COOPER: Duval was a CNN Hero in 2007. He founded a soccer training center called Athletics of Haiti, giving kids from some of the poorest neighborhoods in Port-au-Prince an opportunity to get off the streets, play a sport and get a meal.
That program is now a life saver. Many of the families of the children who played soccer for Bobby have now moved onto the field, with nowhere else to go.
DUVAL: What we're trying to do is just set up some bathrooms, set up the -- some water and give them care.
COOPER: Duval provided what tents he had. Those without them have gotten more creative.
(on camera): Are these goal posts, too?
DUVAL: Goal posts, yes.
COOPER: Someone has made a little home out of goal posts.
COOPER: (voice-over): Families are making due the best they can.
DUVAL: Save as many as you can and serve as much as you can. That's -- that's it.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
KING: In a couple moments, we'll meet the prime minister of Haiti. First, let's check in with Karl Penhaul in Port-Au-Prince, our CNN correspondent. Major development in that case today of the ten missionaries detained last week while taking -- trying to take 33 children out of Haiti. What happened to them today, Karl?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was a real bombshell announcement, because today the ten Americans went before prosecutors who decided their fate. And the prosecutors have decided to charge all ten Americans with kidnapping children and criminal association. These are crimes that are considered so serious there's no possibility of bail. And for the charge of kidnapping, technically under Haitian law, that could carry a maximum sentence of life.
Of course, when it comes to trial, if it gets that far, then a Haitian judge will look and consider aggravating circumstance. So technically life is a maximum sentence for that. On the charge of criminal association, we understand that the sentence there is about three to nine year the, Larry.
KING: Do they have trial by jury? And are they legally represented?
PENHAUL: They do have legal representation. We understand that they have a Haitian lawyer. We did see that Haitian lawyer go in and see them yesterday, when they were under questioning down at the judicial police headquarters. We understand that the Haitian lawyer continued with them there at the prosecutor's office today.
In terms of the finer details of Haitian law and how this trial will -- how this case will proceed, I'm not sure whether under Haitian law there's a trial by jury. I understand Haitian law is based a little bit on the French law and also on Haitian aspects, itself, Larry.
KING: Thank you, Karl, who's right on top of this story. Karl Penhaul, our CNN correspondent.
We now bring aboard Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive, the prime minister of Haiti. The families, Mr. Prime Minister, of the ten Americans being held in Haiti have issued this statement: "we are anxious, fearful and concerned about our family members, especially the young people who are jailed in a foreign country. Obviously we do not know details about what happened and didn't happen on this mission. However, we are absolutely convinced that those who were recruited to join this mission traveled to Haiti to help, not hurt these children. We're pleading to the Haitian prime minister to focus his energies on the critical task ahead for the country and to forgive mistakes that were made by a group of Americans trying to assist Haiti's children."
Mr. Prime minister, having heard that, what is your reaction?
JEAN-MAX BELLERIVE, HAITIAN PRIME MINISTER: What I can say is that exactly what I'm doing is I'm focussing on the real problem of the Haitian people right now. I certainly hope that the conviction of those people are (INAUDIBLE) -- I certainly hope that the people that were arrested were either good faith. I don't believe we need that in Haiti right now.
We have so much support from the American people. We have so much people coming here to help the Haitian people during the earthquake that we believe that that's (INAUDIBLE) -- could bring some people to believe that we are not grateful. That is not the case.
KING: Do you -- Mr. Prime minister, don't you think that by charging these people who could face life in prison, who were apparently trying to do an honest thing, will hurt your image in America?
BELLERIVE: What I know is that those people were charged right now, and they are going to jurors -- have three months to decide if those people really are guilty or innocent, and they have three months to decide that. We hope so that they will decide long before those three months, and we certainly -- the government are going to give to the jurors independence in Haiti. The jurors are not dependent on the prime minister.
I hear a lot of people asking for the government or prime minister to release those people. Those people are not in the hands of the government. They're in the hands of the justice. And what we can do at the time is to support -- in order for them to do what they have to do in a most fast manner, and at the same time, we have to respect the law. It's clear that those people violated the law.
What we have to understand is if they do it in good faith or if they were linked to other traffics. I'm not in the position to decide that. It's the job of the judge or the jury.
KING: Right. As the president of the United States can't interfere with a trial or case in any jurisdiction. By the way, is there trial by jury in Haiti?
BELLERIVE: Yes, in some cases. They are convicted -- if it's considered a crime, it is going to what we call the active. There will be a jury. It would depend what the judge that is considering their case right now. As I told you, he has three months to give his final advice. He can release them. He can ask to prosecute them. In that case they would be -- follow the procedure that would bring them to the court. In that case, they would have a jury, yes.
KING: We'll take a break and be right back with -- hold on one second. We'll be right back. I got it. We'll be right back. Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive on this edition of "LARRY KING LIVE." We'll return with the prime minister right after this.
KING: We're back with Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive, the prime minister of Haiti. You had previously thought maybe these Americans could be prosecuted in the United States. Now is that out of the question? Will this -- all legal aspects take place in Haiti?
BELLERIVE: No. Right now, the justice system is doing its job and I believe that we go over the first phase. Until I receive notice that we cannot continue to the process, we will continue it. But we are also open to any cooperation in this judiciary matter. Until now, I was not asked.
KING: Oh. Other than these Americans, have other people been arrested for any kind of kidnapping? Have there been trafficking charges in Haiti since the earthquake?
BELLERIVE: No, not for what I know. I believe it is the only case that was reported to me. Generally all the American people that are here is physically to help the Haitian people in all the trouble that we are now -- helping the people in the hospital, trying to get shelters for the people. Basically, all the American people in Haiti are helping the Haitian people. Are they not involved in any illegal matter.
KING: The United States could ask you to have them transported to America, right? I mean, you could consider that?
BELLERIVE: In any country, there is a judiciary cooperation. We have other case in recent history throughout the world. As I told you, we have to be asked. Because normally what I want basically is to respect the justice system.
KING: I understand. Let's discuss some other areas. When is the school system going to be re-opened?
BELLERIVE: Normally we issue a -- we let the people know that we want to re-open the school Monday, outside of the departments where -- the region where the earthquake strike hard. Normally, we will like to see the old eight department, where we check the schools, and we believe that the children can safely return to the school, that we'll do so.
We know it brings some problem. First, in the Tudi (ph) region, in the southeast and the west, it's not possible to do that. In the other department, we have a lot of people that moved to the department. So we have to check if it's possible to integrate these children in school. We'll have to see what is going to happen. We want to open the school next Monday, yes.
KING: Mr. Prime Minister, do we have an official death toll at this point? Do we know how many have died?
BELLERIVE: Yeah. We are over 200,000. The last number I received from my services, it was 212,000 people that was collected on the streets in different places. So the last number that we have, and we're sure we're going to be over that.
KING: A lot over?
BELLERIVE: I don't believe a lot over, but a little bit over. As you know, there is a lot of places where we are still searching for people alive and we didn't want to have big machinery there, because it was dangerous for those people, if they were still alive. Now we don't have a lot of hope to find new people. But basically I believe that most of the people already bring the dead and the people that they find outside, and we near the final goal, yes.
KING: We'll spend some more moments with his excellency, the prime minister, right after the next break. Brittany Murphy's mother and husband will join us tomorrow night. Now, the coroner's office revealed the cause of her death today. Hear what her loved ones had to say about Brittany's health, prescription drugs, and what they saw on the day she died. That's tomorrow night's LARRY KING LIVE. More with the prime minister after this.
KING: Back with the prime minister of Haiti. Couple of other things, Mr. Prime Minister. You said that you put the death toll at 212,000. How many do we know are injured?
BELLERIVE: More than 300,000. Now we, again, get support of the international community, especially the US. And we have a lot of hospitals. Basically most of people are taken care of. But we are more than 300,000. I don't have the exact figures, but we are on that figure now.
KING: So we have 212,000 dead, over 300,000 injured. Do we know how many are homeless?
BELLERIVE: Homeless, we have more than one million people on the streets right now. But you have to add to that number the people that before the events of January were already homeless, and that are regrouping with the people that are new on this. So you should have around two million people on the streets right now that are in different places.
KING: Mr. Prime minister, what's the biggest challenge you face right now?
BELLERIVE: Right now is to give shelters to all those people on the streets. As you know, until now, we didn't have rain in Haiti. We are very preoccupied about the first rain in Haiti or a lot of people still don't shelter on their head, and we are very worried about that, no only for safety, but also for public health reasons. you can imagine that when there are more than one million people on the streets, and there is no toilets, no restroom, we are very preoccupied about the public health safety on that location. So we are working hard in order to try to move those people in a safer place.
KING: Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister. We'll call on you again. We appreciate the time. Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive, the prime minister -- thank you -- of Haiti.
Deepak Chopra is next. Don't go away.
KING: Always a great pleasure to welcome Deepak Chopra to "LARRY KING LIVE." The spiritual leader, best selling author is conducting his own fund-raising chores for Haiti tonight at the American Jewish University. I want to talk about some of the things we've talked about tonight. What do you make of this missionary story and the fact that they've been now charged?
DEEPAK CHOPRA, SPIRITUAL TEACHER: I think their intentions were good to rescue these kids. They probably were unaware that they were breaking the law. Or perhaps they were aware, but I think they'll be released. I think --
KING: You think this government -- the prime minister just said he would welcome the United States taking some action in this. Do you think we should?
CHOPRA: I think we should. There was no malicious intent, to all appearance. There was no malicious intent. They were there to help these kids.
KING: Tonight, you're doing this fund-raiser for Haiti Food Project. You have the Haiti ambassador to the UN World Food Program, the former first lady, right? You're speaking, she's speaking. The Supremes are entertaining.
CHOPRA: We have the Albert Schweitzer (ph) Fellowship. Maison is an organization based here, a Jewish organization, that has been working in Haiti for a long time. What this whole disaster has done, Larry, is it's showed that people really care. I mean, your fund- raiser, the amount of money you raised.
So there no question that people care, that they have compassion. It took such a big event to make us aware that people really care. So how can we make this a global movement of compassion and action?
Immediate need is medicine, food, water, and shelter. But what then? You know, how do you build infrastructure? How do you make people self-sufficient? Where is education? The empowerment of women? Post traumatic stress disorder management? These are long- term issues and we have to address them. KING: Some others things I want to discuss. What do you make of the James Arthur Ray story? You're a motivational speaker, too. What do you make of sweat lodges?
CHOPRA: Well, they've been used for hundreds of years. They're part of the American tradition, American-Indian tradition. Sweat lodges are part of a tradition.
KING: What are they supposed to accomplish?
CHOPRA: Traditionally, they're supposed to, in a sense, detox your body and mind. I think anyone who does them should either know the traditional methodology or be medically qualified. If you're dealing with people who are middle age or have propensity to heart disease and diabetes, you can get very easily dehydrated.
KING: Are you saying the host should be medically responsible?
CHOPRA: Say that again?
KING: The host should be medically --
CHOPRA: Should take medical precautions or at least know enough about what they're doing. I think sometimes people go over their head and presume it's a safe thing to do, and it isn't.
KING: Have you ever attended one?
CHOPRA: I have never attended one, no.
KING: What do you make of -- and you took a firm stand on this when his death occurred -- the fact that Michael Jackson's personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, is expected to be charged tomorrow in connection with his death?
CHOPRA: Well, again, I predicted that, if you remember, that there was criminal negligence. I don't think, again, Dr. Murray had the intention, that he went again over his head. The only time you need to give an anesthetic is in an operating room, when you have access to a ventilator and you can intubate the patient. So it shouldn't have been done.
Leaving that aside, Larry, now the data clearly shows that the number-one cause of death from overdose in America is medical prescriptions, not street drugs. The number one cause of addiction in America is medical prescriptions, not street drugs. This is a huge problem.
KING: Doctors are at fault? You took a lot of flak because following his death, soon after his death, you came on this program and talked about drug abuse. And you were angry at Michael and his doctors. Were you not?
CHOPRA: I was frustrated at Michael. I loved Michael. He was a very close friend. He was an artistic genius. He was an amazing person. So I was frustrated at Michael. I was angry at the doctors, yes.
KING: Do you think -- where do you think this trial's going to go? I mean, this is the kind of thing you're trying to prevent, doctors --
CHOPRA: I think if anything, it will draw attention to the fact that our medical establishment has to look within itself to see that we not only perpetuate these problems, but we initiate these problems. Unless there's deep soul searching in the medical profession, this thing is going to keep going on. You just had Brittany's death.
KING: We're going to talk about it tomorrow night. You're a doctor. What do you do if someone comes in to you and says, I have a terrible headache and Aspirin's not helping and Excedrin's not helping? Would you give them Vicodin?
CHOPRA: Most usually not, because I can show them ways to help treat pain through meditation.
KING: Isn't a doctor at mercy? He can't know if you're having a headache or not.
CHOPRA: That's why you have these drugs. But as soon as you realize that the patient is demanding these drugs, and the demand is out of proportion to anything you've seen normally -- because we see normal patients who get Vicodin after surgery and they come off it in two days or three days. When a patient starts to demand, which in a range that's totally out of proportion to what you've seen normally, then you question is.
KING: Is it easy to type drugs, to do it by going to five different doctors?
CHOPRA: Yes, but most doctors do know that the patient is going to five different doctors.
KING: How do they know?
CHOPRA: Because that's the nature of addictive behavior. Every time I've seen patients who had addictions, they've actually been going to six or seven doctors. A lot of these doctors are what we call concierge doctors. They'll even send you the prescription over the mail. So, you know, this is how they make money.
KING: Are prescription drugs easy to get?
CHOPRA: They're very easy to get. And right now, it's a huge problem even amongst children, amongst teenagers and children who have access to prescription drugs.
KING: I want to remind you again, the Haiti Food Project will take place tonight. It's at the American Jewish University. you can still go over and attend, right?
CHOPRA: Yes. People from the Schweitzer Fellowship, Maison, which is the Jewish answer to hunger, the United Nations, everybody is coming together to create a global movement for compassion and action.
KING: That's at the American Jewish University
KING: Deepak Chopra, it's always great seeing you, the spiritual leader and best selling author. Time now for Anderson Cooper and "AC 360." Anderson?