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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Jackson`s Doctor Pleads Not Guilty to Charges
Aired February 08, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight stunning, late- breaking developments in the Michael Jackson death probe. After weeks of swirling rumors and drama, Dr. Conrad Murray finally turns himself in and is officially charged with involuntary manslaughter. A media frenzy as the Jackson clan turns up in force at court and sends the message: not enough.
So what happens next? Can Dr. Murray practice medicine as he awaits this trial, and is the City of Angels ready for another chaotic media circus in their courtrooms? We`ll get the inside information from Michael Jackson`s famous defense attorney, Tom Mesereau.
Plus, head-spinning new twists in four tawdry tales of sex, lies, and even videotapes. Tiger Woods, ex-ESPN (inaudible) Steve Phillips, Governor Mark Sanford and former senator and one-time presidential hopeful John Edwards. Sex scandals burning through the sports and political worlds. But we have to ask: is it just about the power? We`ll explore infidelity, sex addiction, starting over. And what`s the deal with the Edwards sex tape?
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hallelujah! It`s finally happened. We`ve been waiting so long. Michael Jackson`s personal doctor facing charges in his death.
Dr. Conrad Murray paraded into court today through throngs of reporters and Michael Jackson fans who heckled him. He pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter. His attorney tried to address the media after the hearing. News helicopters hovering overhead. He was hard to hear.
Here he is, though, blasting the prosecution`s case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED CHERNOFF, MURRAY`S ATTORNEY: Well, look, we haven`t seen any of the evidence. You know, for eight months we saw nothing. Now the package we were given today doesn`t even have any of the drug levels or any other information that would actually help us make a determination about whether or not -- really we can focus on whether intoxication was the cause of death. We know nothing.
Now we planned to get to work immediately and get that information, but right now I can`t tell you how difficult it`s going to be. I can tell you that, if it took them eight months to get this far, it must be difficult for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The Jackson family showed up like their own little army, filling the first two rows of the courtroom. There they are, Joe and Katherine.
Jermaine told the world how he feels about the doctor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jermaine, your reaction to the involuntary manslaughter?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jermaine, what do you think?
JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL`S BROTHER: It`s not enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Murray admits before Jackson died he gave him the powerful knockout drug Propofol to help him sleep. The judge had some strong words for the doctor regarding anesthesia. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE KEITH L. SCHWARTZ, L.A. SUPERIOR COURT: You may not, under any circumstances, use any anesthetic agents, specifically Propofol. You`re not to be using that. You`re not to prescribe that. You`re not to have it in any manner whatsoever. Do you understand that? A unique issue where you would sedate people -- in other words, I don`t want you sedating people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Murray doesn`t look too happy there to hear that. That`s got to hurt. I want to hear your take on all of this. Give me a call: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Are we being too harsh on Dr. Murray or not harsh enough? 1-877-586-7297.
So much to get to with my fantastic, expert panel: Firpo Carr, former Jackson spokesman and Jackson family friend. Great to have you, Firpo.
FIRPO CARR, JACKSON FAMILY FRIEND: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bryan Monroe, the last person to interview Michael Jackson before his death last year. And the one and only Lisa Bloom, CNN legal analyst. But we start with Ted Rowlands with CNN.
Ted, I want to get all the latest. But first, I have to ask you. You and I have been out there on the front lines together covering Jackson. We covered the trial together. We know how intense it can get when the words "Michael" and "Jackson" are put together. What was it like outside court when Dr. Murray finally arrived?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I`ll tell you, Jane, it brought back memories of when you and I were in Santa Maria for the molestation trial. You had fans jeering him, and then you had Conrad Murray when he was coming in, and then the Jackson family coming in, very reminiscent.
Joe Jackson, Katherine Jackson, sitting there in the front row in the courtroom, very hushed. They didn`t talk at all during it. But you -- you had Jermaine afterwards. Obviously, they`re very upset that the prosecutors didn`t roll the dice and go for a second-degree murder charge. But after six months, they determined that this was the best course to go, just involuntary manslaughter.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s listen as Dr. Murray enters his plea in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHWARTZ: This is Conrad Robert Murray. Is that your true name, sir? Counsel, wait for the reading.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to waive the reading of the complaint, judge, and just enter our plea of "not guilty" to that complaint.
SCHWARTZ: All right. "Not guilty" plea is entered, denied all prior special allegations, should they exist. Please have a seat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let`s take a look at some of the major parts of the prosecution`s case.
The morning Jackson died Dr. Murray gave him several doses of five sedatives. OK, You see it there listed. And then, at about 10:40, finally, since Jackson couldn`t sleep, he gave him the Propofol.
Then, after Michael Jackson stops breathing, Dr. Murray reportedly waits more than an hour -- more than an hour -- to call 911. During that time, he made three cell-phone calls. He also performed CPR on Jackson on the bed, which, you know, they`re supposed to perform it on a hard surface. Anybody who`s seen "CSI" knows that. You do it on a hard surface. This guy is a cardiologist.
Lisa Bloom, is there any way to explain away the strange behavior, particularly not calling 911 for more than an hour?
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don`t know what it`s going to be, Jane, but I`m sure the defense is going to have something. I think the best bet is to argue causation that, yes, Michael Jackson died after the Propofol, but there were a lot of other medications in his system.
I read the autopsy report. There were medications in Michael Jackson`s bedroom that were prescribed by other doctors. And I guess this could be a battle of the experts, where the defense brings in their own doctors to say it wasn`t the Propofol, or the Propofol wasn`t the main factor. It was the interaction of a lot of different medications that caused the death.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I have to go back to Ted Rowlands on this, because this is something that I`ve wondered about. Is there the possibility of a cover-up? Do you think the prosecutors will argue that he didn`t call 911 because Michael Jackson was already dead?
TMZ reported way back in July that their sources said the paramedics felt that Michael Jackson was dead at his house and that Dr. Murray insisted the singer be transported to the hospital.
Now, we just got the coroner`s report, which TMZ had obtained, and it says here when the paramedics arrived they found Jackson asystolic. So I looked that up, and it says absence of electrical and mechanical activity in the heart, lack of a pulse. In other words, it sounds like TMZ as right, that they thought he was dead there.
ROWLANDS: Yes, but one thing, Jane, you`ve got to keep in mind is that during that 911 call, clearly there are efforts to revive Jackson and Murray is in the background. So I think that the idea that he didn`t call 911 because Jackson was dead probably isn`t accurate. It wasn`t some sort of cover-up.
One could also argue that you call 911 to get an ambulance driver there. Well, they already had a physician there. Calling 911 is not as advantageous, you would think, of having an actual doctor trying to revive you. Obviously, though, he was unsuccessful.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very good points.
All right. Well, tonight`s big issue: is Dr. Murray getting special treatment? Just a little while ago his lawyer said, hey, he`s a doctor and he`s going to continue to lead his life. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHERNOFF: Yes, he`s going to keep practicing. He`ll be back in Vegas this week at his medical practice. He continues to operate his medical practice in Houston, and he`s looking forward to getting back to his patients.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, his legal team has spent days negotiating the terms of his surrender. Now here`s our version of Dr. Murray. This is what he was desperately trying to avoid. See, there he is in handcuffs. OK?
Most defendants in a homicide case get they get picked up, they get handcuffed, they get dragged into court. Not Dr. Murray. OK, we did this little graphic, because he was not handcuffed as he walked into court. Why not? What leverage does Dr. Murray have to make demands?
Bryan Monroe, please take that one.
BRYAN MONROE, INTERVIEWED MICHAEL JACKSON: Well, you know, it was interesting watching the whole dance last week and this week about is he going to turn himself in, is he not? There`s also a back and forth between the district attorney and -- and the police department about who`s going to get the play on this.
But, you know, the thing that`s interesting is you look at the crowd that was outside of the courthouse today: not only the hundreds of media but the fans, the fans that were out there cheering support for the Jackson family, as well as yelling some pretty nasty things at Dr. Murray. There is a lot of heat around this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sandy, Oregon, your question or thought?
CALLER: Yes, I`m so glad to see this finally happening. This man clearly was in the wrong. And I`m sure he knew what was doing was wrong. And I`m kind of hoping to see him lose his license, because I`ll really be upset if -- if he gets away with doing what he did. But I`m glad to see that this is happening.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well...
BLOOM: Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got to ask Lisa about that. Yes, they said he couldn`t do anesthesia.
BLOOM: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But he could still go and practice medicine, right?
BLOOM: Look, you know, the medical board could have investigated him a long time ago, the day after Michael Jackson`s death. They didn`t have to wait for this criminal complaint to be filed. I don`t though why they have taken so long, and the medical board has allowed him to continue to practice. That`s their responsibility. And I don`t know what`s taking them so long, frankly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, listen, Firpo Carr, we`re going to get to you after the break. You`re the Jackson family friend who`s going to give us insight into what they`re going through.
More on Dr. Conrad Murray`s surrender in a bit. And we`re taking your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Plus, ex-ESPN analyst Steve Phillips, you can add his name to the sex rehab graduates` roster. He admits, "I`ve broken my wife`s heart," but is he really a changed man?
Back to Dr. Conrad Murray finally facing the music in the legendary pop star`s death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. CONRAD MURRAY, CHARGED WITH INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER: I will be fine. I have done all I could do. I told the truth, and I have faith the truth will prevail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: The fact that they are here in force, including Katherine Jackson and Joe Jackson, makes it clear that this family is going to see this from start to finish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: CNN`s Ted Rowlands at the courthouse where the Jackson clan showed up in force for today`s hearing, Katherine, Joe, Jermaine, who said it`s not enough. But is that an emotional statement, Firpo Carr? Would it be better in the long run to win a case of involuntary manslaughter than lose a case of second-degree murder?
CARR: Well, you know, I`ll tell you something, Jane. You mentioned a word that sets this whole thing in the right context, when we first came on, and that is "hallelujah." I tell you, which means praise Jah.
But let me tell you this, the Jackson family is steeped in religious tradition. Interestingly enough, the Constitution of the United States is predicated upon the Judeo-Christian ethic. Given that fact, the Jackson family believes that it would be biblical justice, as well as social justice, for this man to have been charged with something more than involuntary manslaughter. And that`s how they see it. Jermaine was speaking for the family when he said that whole thing.
And in fact, even if it was accidentally done, that is, even if Dr. Conrad Murray accidentally killed Michael Jackson, you had something in the T`nah (ph) or the Torah that actually states that, if a person does this and is an unintentional manslayer, he can go to one of six different cities, and he still had to pay, even though it was accidental. So this man is guilty in the eyes of the family.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: First of all when I said "hallelujah," it wasn`t a commentary on Dr. Murray. It was a commentary on the fact that, if I had to report for one more day that we were all waiting around for him to be surrendered or whatever...
CARR: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... my head was going to fly off.
CARR: Well, not just yours.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
CARR: That`s why I`m not at the courthouse. You and I, we saw it there in 2004 -- 2005. We were there. It was very draining. So I know exactly how you feel.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
CARR: And that`s why I`m not there. It`s like, oh, no thanks, I`ll pass for now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, is there any way you could quickly explain to us the difference between involuntary manslaughter and second- degree murder?
BLOOM: Yes, it`s all about intent. All right? If you intend to kill somebody and you kill them, that`s murder. That`s first-degree murder.
Second degree is a very conscious disregard of danger to another person. You take a gun, and you wave it around, and you shoot it. And somebody gets killed. And you can`t say, "Well, I didn`t intend," because it`s so highly likely to kill someone. But it has to be a very high likelihood.
Involuntary manslaughter is the next level down. You engage in reckless, careless conduct that takes the life of another. That`s what he`s charged with. He didn`t intend to kill Jackson. Nobody thinks that except the Jackson family.
Prosecutors are saying he engaged in conduct that was careless. Giving Jackson Propofol, even though Jackson wanted it, was so dangerous, and it took his life. That`s a crime. That`s a major felony.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, Murray was wrangling over when to surrender. He decided to visit Jackson`s grave. Yes, that is true. Take a look. We`ve got the photos to prove it.
Here is Dr. Murray Wednesday afternoon at Forest Lawn Memorial Park near L.A. He is sitting right outside the mausoleum in this shot where the King of Pop`s body was laid to rest. He doesn`t look very happy.
I have to wonder, though, if this was a genuine gesture or a staged photo-op.
And with that we go to the phone lines. Bruno, Indiana, your question or thought?
CALLER: Yes, first of all, I want to thank you very much for accepting my call.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`re welcome.
CALLER: I would like to describe that, you know, I`ve been listening to this for ever since Michael Jackson`s death.
However, you know, at the very beginning I understood that this doctor, he was supposed to be in very financial problems that he had. And I feel that, you know, Michael Jackson was supporting, quote/unquote, he was supporting me, giving me "X" amount of dollars a month or year, whatever, you know, I surely don`t want to kill him by doing...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not laughing -- yes, I`m not laughing, but it is a very clever observation. And I want to read his history, and then we`ll get some commentary on it.
This is not the first time he`s faced criminal charges, this Dr. Murray. In `94 he was accused of domestic battering against his then girlfriend. He was tried and acquitted.
He`s also faced several paternity suits, having fathered seven children with six women. His youngest child, 11 months old. Dr. Murray has been staying with the baby`s mom, 27-year-old Nicole Alvarez. Dr. Murray reportedly met her at a strip club. She was a stripper. The "New York Times" says he gave Alvarez a check for 3,500 bucks the first night and she told a friend, quote, "I hit the jackpot," end quote.
Now, Dr. Murray grew up very, very poor in Trinidad in the ghetto, and he ended up a successful cardiologist, but he`s had his share of troubles. Lisa Bloom, there`s the bankruptcy, too. Tell us the money problems.
BLOOM: Yes, he`s had a lot of money problems, as you just outlined, Jane, and I believe that he did declare bankruptcy at some point. I`m sorry. I don`t remember off the top of my head. I think it was last year.
But he was in such financial distress that, when this case offer came along from AEG to pay him $150,000 a month to have just one patient, Michael Jackson, this must have been his golden ticket.
And so I agree with the caller. He would have absolutely no motive to take Jackson`s life. If anything, he probably would have done anything to keep him alive, to keep the golden cow alive, because this was his only source of income, and this was a very nice source of income for him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Annette, Arizona, your question or thought?
CALLER: Hi, Jane. Thanks for taking my call.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi. Thanks for calling.
CALLER: A bizarre question. Is there any medical possibility that this doctor was performing CPR for the amount of time that he did, in hopes of getting medications out of his system before authorities were involved?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think that`s -- that`s an interesting question. And I want to go to Bryan Monroe. I think that, you know, the big question is what the heck was going on during, I think it`s something like 81 minutes that he did not call 911.
MONROE: That`s going to be seen as the missing hour, an hour and a half or so. Was he doing CPR?
I think it would be hard to sort of get the medicine -- I`m not a doctor -- but to get the medicine out of the system. Propofol has a very short half life. It enters and wears off within two to five minutes, so I`m not sure if that might have been what was going on.
But what was happening in the hour is very, very important.
The coroner`s report showed that they found 11 vials of Propofol at the house. Three 100 milligram units and eight 20-milligram units. That is a lot of the stuff that they call milk of amnesia or mother`s milk. It`s dangerous, dangerous stuff without the proper care. It could -- could have indeed killed Michael Jackson.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and I have to say for me the big question is -- and I don`t know it if anybody has the answer, think about it during the break -- who was he calling on the cell phone in the 81 minutes?
MONROE: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That, to me, is the key to the puzzle.
Everybody stay right where you are. More on the Michael Jackson saga coming up.
Plus, South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford infamously referred -- infamously referred to his mistress as his soul mate. Now wife Jenny speaking up and out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, let`s get him down to the floor.
ALBERTO ALVAREZ, SECURITY FOR MICHAEL JACKSON: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, let`s get him down to the floor. I`m going to help you with CPR right now...
Did anybody see him?
ALVAREZ: Yes, we have a personal doctor here with him, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you have a doctor there?
ALVAREZ: Yes, but he`s not responding to anything, to no, no, he`s not responding to the CPR or anything, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, OK. Well, we`re on our way there, and if your guy`s doing CPR, as instructed by a doctor, he has a higher authority than me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No cuffs for Dr. Conrad Murray as he sweeps into court today while Michael Jackson fans heckle him. And they`re saying some nasty stuff we can`t repeat here.
A small army of Jackson family members, including Joe and Katherine, show up in force. Brother Jermaine cries out it`s not enough. He`s talking about involuntary manslaughter, the charge against Dr. Murray. They wanted something more, murder.
For insight into what the Jackson clan is going through, I am so delighted to welcome famed criminal defense attorney Tom Mesereau, who got Michael Jackson acquitted of child molestation charges.
Tom, tragically, you see the Jacksons go into court again. It seems like the Jackson clan always finds itself in court. Why is that?
TOM MESEREAU, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t think that`s really true, Jane. I mean, they`re celebrities. They`re known all over the world. Michael is the best-known celebrity in the world. People were constantly filing frivolous lawsuits against him, constantly trying to take advantage of him. The prosecution of Michael Jackson was a travesty; it was a sham. It should never have happened.
So they`re targets. So I don`t think it`s fair to say they`re constantly in court and doing something improper. I really don`t.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s talk about Dr. Conrad Murray. I think the big question, one of the big questions people are wondering, was Michael already dead by the time the paramedics came? Joe Jackson thinks so, and he has pointed the finger at Dr. Murray since the beginning. Let`s listen to Joe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JACKSON, FATHER OF MICHAEL: You don`t take a doctor and stick him in a room and the doctor give him something to make him rest and then he don`t wake up no more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: TMZ has long reported claims that the paramedics felt Jackson had flat-lined by the time they arrived. They say Dr. Murray insisted they not pronounce him dead at the home. If, in fact, he was dead before he went to the hospital, what can the prosecution do with that to work their case against Dr. Murray?
MESEREAU: Well, given the charge, they want to prove that he was grossly negligent, that he was criminally negligent, that was criminally responsible for Michael`s death. And I think the facts you just articulated will help them prove that.
I mean, he should not have had Propofol in the home. He should not have been administering Propofol in the home. He didn`t have the required respiratory equipment. He didn`t have the required assistance from others, who normally in a hospital setting, will monitor someone who is under Propofol. I think you put all of those facts together, and it`s going to be, you know, a strong case for them, but you never know what the defense is going to come up with.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what about him waiting something like 81 minutes before 911 was called. Even though he is a doctor, shouldn`t he have called sooner? What does that say, that he made, reportedly, allegedly, three cell-phone calls during that time?
MESEREAU: Well, at best, it shows that he`s a complete incompetent, and I suspect that`s true. He`s a cardiologist. He`s not trained to administer this kind of medication. Nor is he trained to monitor it. Nor did he monitor it, because he didn`t have the equipment or the personnel to help him.
I think, if anything, it shows he`s a complete incompetent. He shouldn`t have been doing what he did, and he`s guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, this is the day that we have been waiting for. Are you personally pleased -- we only have a couple seconds -- that he`s finally arrived at court and gotten charged?
MESEREAU: Yes, I am. You know, I really felt so highly of Michael Jackson. I still do. I think he was a great genius, a great person. I think he was a tremendous target for profiteers. I suspect this doctor...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there, Tom.
MESEREAU: OK.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So great to see you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Head spinning new twists in four tawdry tales of sex, lies and even videotape. Golf superstar Tiger Woods, ex-ESPN analyst Steve Phillips, Governor Mark Sanford and former senator and one-time presidential hopeful John Edwards; sex scandals burning through the sports and political worlds. But we have to ask is it just about the power? We`ll explore infidelity, sex addiction, starting over and what`s the deal with the Edwards` sex tape?
A slew of new developments tonight in a series of shocking sex scandals: powerful men put everything on the line to cheat. Why do they do it when they had so very much to lose and how are their wives coping?
First, John Edwards -- this once perfect family man image demolished. News of a secret love child and rumors of sordid sex tape have ripped his family apart. A former aide says he has a scandalous tape featuring John Edwards and his pregnant mistress having sex.
Listen to this from ABC`s "Good Morning America".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW YOUNG, FORMER JOHN EDWARDS AIDE: I`m positive it`s John Edwards. You can clearly see his face. I can`t speak for the rest of the body parts. With Rielle, it`s clearly a pregnant woman.
It was left in a box of trash right outside of a room that she had stayed in temporarily in our rental home. Sure. But we think, and it`s hard to think it would be anyone else but her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight is a judge going above and beyond to make sure that tape never sees the light of day?
Plus, a sports superstar with a top secret: now that he`s reportedly out of sex rehab is Tiger Woods headed back to his wife or to the golf course or both? Maybe he should take a cue from Steve Phillips, the fired ESPN sports commentator who just checked out of the very same sex rehab center where Tiger was reportedly treated.
And listen to this from NBC`s "Today Show".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE PHILLIPS, FORMER ESPN SPORTS COMMENTATOR: It wasn`t anybody else. It was me. I couldn`t stop myself from doing the things I was doing even knowing the consequences; married, great job, great career. I risked all of that -- risked all of that to act out the way that I did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sounds like a textbook definition of addiction.
We`re going to take a look at what it`s like as we go from rehab to reality with my fantastic expert panel: CNN legal analyst, Lisa Bloom, back with us; psychologist Jenn Berman -- great to have you, Jenn; and a very special guest, you can catch him on the reality series, "The Tester" on Playstation Network, actor and comedian Hal Sparks.
But we begin with senior editor of "In Touch Weekly" Amy Palmer. Amy, let`s start with this John Edwards sex tape. I mean, it just goes on and on. What`s the latest on this?
The latest is this sex tape does exist. "In Touch Weekly" can`t confirm exactly if it`s John Edwards and if it`s his mistress but we know it exists. And what can I say, Jane, I`m not surprised by it. This story just gets worse and worse as time goes on.
It`s actually a great study and an ego that has just run out of control.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, John`s former aide, Andrew Young, says he turned over the tape to the FBI but he also says he kept a copy. So let`s listen to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: We had numerous instances where we could have sold it. We didn`t because we couldn`t live -- it was awful enough watching it once.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST, THE JOY BEHAR SHOW: Do you hold it as potential leverage along the line here in the future?
YOUNG: Well, what`s happened now is the grand jury, the prosecutor`s handling of the grand jury investigation have subpoenaed it. They have a copy of it and I`ve been instructed to keep my copy in a safety deposit box.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A judge has ordered young to turn over that tape and is insisting a private security officer go with him to the safety deposit box to get it out and also that he erase any copies on his laptop.
Now here`s my question. Why so careful about this protection of the sex tape? You remember when a sex tape of Paris Hilton leaked to the Internet, Hal Sparks? It was released on DVD, "One Night in Paris". You probably saw it or maybe you didn`t. I`m not going to assume.
HAL SPARKS, COMEDIAN: Go ahead and assume.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Despite a huge legal battle.
SPARKS: Absolutely, assume.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You did see it. Why is it that even Hilton`s lawyers -- she`s a very rich girl -- couldn`t stop that from being distributed but this North Carolina judge is going so far above and beyond to keep this sex tape about a former North Carolina senator under wraps?
SPARKS: I think you`ve hit on something. I would like to say though for the record, not all sex tapes are sordid. I`ve seen a lot of them and, quite frankly, some of them are just plain pathetic.
In this case, I love how he immediately went, having to watch it twice, oh, it`s the old religious joke -- I`ve seen every frame of this disgusting film three times and I know it`s pornography.
You know, it`s not surprising. Obviously there was a lot of protectionism going on with John throughout this entire affair. It`s not surprising that there would be political figures and people in his state helping out.
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: And Jane...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Go ahead.
BLOOM: And, Jane, what is the point of Andrew Young keeping this tape? He says in the book that he came upon the tape. It was broken and he actually sent it out to be repaired and pieced back together.
I mean, we know that John Edwards and Rielle Hunter had sex. There`s the baby that proves that. So why does he need to have a sex tape? I think this guy has -- it`s disgusting what he`s done. I mean look, what John Edwards did was terrible?
But this is a guy who was his friend, who stood by him, who lied for him over and over again, why would you save your friend`s sex tape? Why would you give it to the FBI? Why not just let it be destroyed, throw it away and be done with it?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I can only that think that he`s being paranoid. He said at one point -- he feared for his life. No, he was walking around the house at 3:00 in the morning with a kitchen knife or some kind of knife because he was actually paranoid and afraid for his life.
And I think it`s a bottom line guarantee that if John Edwards, who has proven himself to be a pathological liar, in my opinion, manages to come up with some cookie explanation that doesn`t -- and weasel out of this, he has that ultimate trump card.
BLOOM: Jane it`s all about the money. He wrote a book, he said, because he wanted the money, which was refreshingly honest. He held on to the tape because he wants money. He wants to continue to get on the shows so he can talk about his book and promote his book. It`s all about money, hurting his friend so he can make a buck.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How is he going to get money if he`s not going to sell the sex tape?
BLOOM: Because he`s promoting a book and the book he`s hoping is going to sell, sell, sell. And if he has the tape, he keeps going on the shows. The book is not just a one-day story. It`s a several week story, a several month story and he can promote that book which is all about selling out his friend, John Edwards.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think we`re all right. I think he also wants to keep it as the ultimate proof that, yes, he`s not lying. He`s not making stuff up. He`s not fooling a million
SPARKS: There`s a baby. There`s a baby. We don`t need any more proof that they had sex.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Have you seen the -- have you seen the DNA report? I mean, I`m just saying, this is a guy, John Edwards is a guy who according to Andrew Young asked him to steal a dirty diaper so that he could take a...
SPARKS: Right. Create a fake DNA.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then asked him to make a dummy DNA, so I don`t blame this guy for being paranoid. But I see your point, Lisa Bloom.
PALMER: There`s nothing too low for this guy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.
SPARKS: There is a big leap, though, from pathological liar and adulterer to political murderer. There is a little bit of like the panic attack that this guy is selling I`m not necessarily buying. And I do think there`s an element of the book selling that goes in here. This is more of a...
BLOOM: Thanks, Hal.
SPARKS: A Kennedy-style sex...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to -- we have so many sex scandals to cover so I have to move on.
SPARKS: It`s not one of mine, is it? I just want to clarify.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have a big scorecard in my office and I keep checking them off.
Elizabeth Edwards has to stomach all this talk of her estranged husband`s alleged sex tape. Jenny Sanford is working on healing. She couldn`t stand by her husband, South Carolina Governor Mark Stanford, when he had to admit to the world that he lied about hiking on the Appalachian Trail when he was really doing a little different sort of hiking involving his Argentinean mistress. She still tried everything to save their marriage.
Listen to this from ABC`s "Good Morning America".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOLOUS, ABC HOST: You asked him to sign a contract.
JENNY SANFORD, WIFE OF SOUTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR MARK SANFORD: He wouldn`t sign it, right.
STEPHANOPOLOUS: You said you`d be silent if he`d give up the affair?
SANFORD: Right.
STEPHANOPOLOUS: And he wouldn`t do it?
SANFORD: Right. During those six months I did everything I could possible to try and rectify the marriage and get him to break off the affair because I`m a staunch believer in marriage. Like many women out there who are trapped for different reasons, I felt very trapped because of the house we lived in and the job my husband had.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jenn Berman, I find this absolutely fascinating. She knew about the affair before the story broke. She offered him a contract and said, look, if you just sign this contract promising not to see her again, I will never talk about this, and he refused, calling the mistress his soul mate. Weigh in please.
JENN BERMAN, PSYCHOLOGIST: She has just undergone so much public embarrassment from this man and I think that she is a very religious woman and she does believe in the institution of marriage and she so wanted it to work. But A woman can only take so much no matter how strong your belief in God is. You can only take so much when your husband tells lie after lie and humiliates you like this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well -- go ahead...
SPARKS: Also there`s an element of if she wants him to sign a contract that says he won`t have the affair anymore, they`ll just denounce it or whatever -- they had a contract like that. It was called marriage vow.
BLOOM: Yes, but they said at the beginning of their marriage -- he told her before the wedding, he didn`t want to do the vow of fidelity.
SPARKS: Yes, he wouldn`t be monogamous. Right he would not agree to be monogamous.
BLOOM: And she agreed.
SPARKS: Quite frankly, I think this is a different situation than the Edwards or any of the others that we`re even going to talk about because I think he`s genuinely in love with this other woman and that`s a whole different ...
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, then you get divorced. You get divorced. You go up to your wife and you say, "Honey, I`ve fallen in love with somebody else." But he wanted to keep his career and he thought that would help. That would hurt his political career...
SPARKS: Oh it would totally help.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ...so he`s two-facing everyone. I`m shocked that he`s still the governor.
(CROSSTALK)
SPARKS: I know. He should just go talk to Newt Gingrich. You can get away with this stuff.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Still more to come on these two-timing celebrities.
Now, former ESPN commentator Steve Phillips breaks his silence about his sex addiction. He speaks out. We`re going to hear him talk about the trauma he caused his wife and kids.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPERATOR: Did she confront you? Did she threaten you or anything?
WIFE: She has been threatening me the entire (INAUDIBLE) and phone calls.
OPERATOR: Ok, did anything happen when she showed up?
WIFE: I was out and when I pulled into my driveway she was on the side of my driveway.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Remember that, right? We`re taking your calls on all of this. 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. What do you think about all of these cheating hall-of-famers?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a crazy woman who is involved with my husband and she has come to my house to harm me and my children.
OPERATOR: Ok ma`am, is she outside?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, she is pulling down my hill right now. She is in a blue Prius, she just pulled past me.
OPERATOR: Ok, I am sending officers right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please hurry.
OPERATOR: They are coming. They are on their way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please hurry and catch her. She is crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, to cheating stars in the sports world. That was a terrified 911 call from Marni Phillips, wife of disgraced sports analyst Steve Phillips. She made the call after his 22-year-old mistress, shown here at a TMZ photo, showed up at her door.
Now Steve is just out of sex rehab. This is the very same program, the same center, that Tiger Woods was reportedly checked into. And now Steve is speaking out. He admits he is a full-fledged sex addict who had multiple mistresses. Perhaps he can give us some insight into what Tiger is going through.
Jenn Berman, should Tiger Woods, do you think, come clean and do exactly what Steve Phillips has?
BERMAN: Well, absolutely, but I also think that while I`m a huge believer in the 12-step program and all of the 12-step philosophies I think it`s very interesting how almost every celebrity who gets caught having an affair is suddenly jumping into sex rehab and I think I`m a little skeptical...
SPARKS: Yes.
BERMAN: ...of every single one of these celebrities suddenly saying, "I`m a sex addict."
SPARKS: Yes, it`s a PR mop. That`s all it is these days. I mean, there`s a huge difference, I think.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: PR mop.
SPARKS: Yes, between -- there`s a huge difference between genuine addiction; you talked about the Michael Jackson story just before, you know in the top half of the show. Here is a man who is literally anesthetic to sleep is on so many prescription medications. This is the genuine face of addiction.
Having an affair because you can is not the same thing as addiction and using that as a broad brush to paint all these affairs with I think cheapens real addiction and lets, you know, somebody who`s just being an idiot get-off scot-free.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Amy Palmer, though, listen, what do you think? Because 14 mistresses...
SPARKS: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ...is what Tiger Woods allegedly had that we know of. Ok? Now that`s, I think, compulsive, pathological behavior.
SPARKS: Really?
AMY PALMER, SENIOR EDITOR "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Yes.
SPARKS: That used to be called Warren Beatty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know what, you raise an interesting point. I mean, there is kind of this double standard in Hollywood, Amy, where -- who was it -- the sports star who said he had 1,000 affairs...
SPARKS: Wilt Chamberlain.
PALMER: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wilt Chamberlain.
SPARKS: Look at Gene Simmons. Look at yes...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, and yes -- and everybody applauded. And you know he`s seemed like he put it in his book and he was bragging about it. And it`s almost like that was like maybe what, another era allowed and this era is not as tolerant of that behavior so people then fall into the I`m a sex addict.
SPARKS: Right, it`s a PR move. Yes.
PALMER: I think that`s also because of technology. I think that it was easier back in the day to get away with this stuff. You didn`t have the Internet. You didn`t have every media outlet in the world chasing you so if you`ve had affairs and you had multiple women on the side, who was going to know? I mean, we had so many famous people in the past.
JFK is a perfect example. I mean, he was a philanderer, but did the public know at the time? No.
SPARKS: Correct.
PALMER: And if we had these sources of technology, I can guarantee you it would have been the biggest scandal in America.
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: But how can it be a medical problem if it only applies to married people? If Tiger Woods...
SPARKS: Right.
BLOOM: ...was single, he would just be a player...
SPARKS: Exactly.
BLOOM: ...and we would all be laughing about his behavior.
The only problem is that these guys are married. If they were single nobody would care.
SPARKS: Or -- yes...
BLOOM: I mean they`re so greedy that they want to be married and have the family and the wife and the relationship and they also want to have the player lifestyle. That`s the problem.
BERMAN: Yes, absolutely. I`m not...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
BERMAN: I`m not arguing about whether these guys are sex addicts or not. I think, the other -- the bigger problem is that...
SPARKS: I am.
BERMAN: ...many of these men are incredibly narcissistic; they all thought that they were invincible. Whether they`re sex addicts or now it almost has become irrelevant because they all thought that they were so invincible that they would never get caught by their wives and/or the public and they acted out.
SPARKS: I think that you know -- quite frankly this kind of behavior is permeate through all kinds of like high corporate positions in America, situations not in the public eye so they don`t get that kind of attention. It`s almost a normalized behavior. And quite frankly there are golf courses all over this country covered in guys who have the same amount of mistresses as Tiger Woods do but because they`re the CEO of an underwear company or they sell -- they have five car dealerships, nobody cares.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
BLOOM: Is there someone you want to tell us about?
SPARKS: I don`t own five car dealerships.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tammy...
BLOOM: How about underwear?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tammy in Maine, your question or thought?
TAMMY IN MAINE: Hello.
SPARKS: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go for it.
TAMMY: Hi.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think we`ve left Tammy speechless. No, go, for it, Tammy. Ask the question.
TAMMY: Yes, hi.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
TAMMY: I`m just wondering, I think it`s kind of funny how when it comes to sex and multiple partners that when you have a man and not just a star but whatever, they take the sex addict route. And yet if a woman has multiple sex partners and does that...
SPARKS: Yes.
TAMMY: ...you never hear the sex addict.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they have other names for her that we can`t repeat on and that`s the other double standard. Very good point, Tammy.
TAMMY: Exactly.
SPARKS: Look at the Carla Bruni -- look at you know, that scandal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
SPARKS: ... and Nicolas Sarkozy`s wife.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
SPARKS: ...these are -- there is almost actually a level of honor to it like wow, that`s kind of impressive ma`am, you know.
BLOOM: But you very rarely hear about prominent women, especially in politics, having a sex scandal. It`s extremely rare. And you know, women in a lot of power have all the issues...
SPARKS: Not because it isn`t there.
BLOOM: ... of ego, narcissism, et cetera. But somehow they manage to not have the sex scandals.
SPARKS: That`s true. I think males who are involved in an affair with a married woman are a little better being quiet about it maybe. That might be it. They don`t want that other...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think that`s because women are attracted to power and so they gravitate to these men and in their defense I will say -- and I`m not condoning it -- that we all know, and I`m sure Amy Palmer will attest, that whether if you`re a Hollywood star or a sports star and you`re a guy, there are women coming up to you 24/7, 365 offering their bodies to you. I think one star -- famous star was quoted as saying, "I just got tired after having sex every half an hour."
BLOOM: Oh, geez.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to keep that in mind. But don`t go anywhere. We`re going to talk Tiger Woods, golf`s golden child and the latest on that, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elin, how are you? Do you still love Tiger, Elin? Will you ever forgive him? Are you going to divorce him, Elin? What do you think of his 14 mistresses? What would you say to them?
ELIN WOODS, TIGER WOODS` WIFE: How about something nice like how are you holding up?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you holding up, Elin?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was Elin Woods from TMZ. She has refused to speak out to any reporters since the Tiger Woods scandal broke.
Now, Amy Palmer, what do you know? Because I`m reading reports here one of in the "Daily Mail" says Tiger Woods` son Charlie celebrated his first birthday today. No sign of Tiger around even though he has reportedly been reunited with his family. We`re also hearing, however, he may be gearing up for a golf tournament as early as next month.
What are you hearing?
PALMER: Yes. We`re hearing different reports. One thing that is definitely going to be the case is I think Tiger Woods is going to show the world that he`s still number one in golf or he`s going to try to. I think he knows that is his best chance at rehabbing his image.
He`s been so -- he`s been so -- he hasn`t done the right things in terms of stepping out in front of the story, talking about the issues. So I still think he`s going to continue with that almost like he`s still cocky about the situation where he`s going to show that he`s still number one, he`s still a fantastic brand for all of these companies to invest in on the golf course. If he can do that I think that`s a real indication of his mindset and where he`s at.
SPARKS: I find it -- you know, when we talk about whether -- him getting ahead of the story and doing kind of all the mechanical things that we always see when people are talking about a scandal that comes out, I think it`s a little worrisome that we ascribe this mechanical way of apologizing to the public, going into rehab, coming out and making your PR statement then moving on as image maintenance as if it`s a normalcy. I don`t think it should be.
There`s no reason to believe that him coming out and saying this might not actually make people think less of him. Perhaps by remaining silent, that is a good...
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what my question is? How could you possibly play golf thinking about everybody looking at you thinking about everything you`ve done? I don`t know about you, when I play tennis if somebody even walks by I can`t hit the ball.
I can`t -- I know that he`s a professional golfer. But the idea of him returning to the course and teeing off when you have to know the entire world is looking at you and not thinking about, wow, that was a good drive, but...
BLOOM: Jane, he`s the best golfer in the world. He has the concentration. He`s playing under stress. America likes nothing better than a comeback story.
Believe you me, he`ll get on the couch with Oprah, he`ll cry, he`ll have a couple bad days in the media and then he`ll move on. I think people are already getting tired of the Tiger Woods story. They`re ready to see him get back out there and move on.
By the way, he didn`t break any laws. He didn`t physically harm anyone except himself. He hurt his wife, he did a terrible thing...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: ... but I think people are ready to have -- see him in action.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When you`re linked to two adult film stars I don`t think I need to even say anything more.
SPARKS: Sure you do. I don`t -- I know some adult film stars and they happen to be lovely people. For the record, I would like to...
(CROSSTALK)
PALMER: His commitment to his family.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... the risk posed to his wife, that`s all I`m saying.
PALMER: How do you know them Hal?
SPARKS: I kid, but in all honesty I think one of the biggest people behind him getting so quickly through this process and back out on the field is all the people involved in the golf industry because it`s been a huge hit for them. You know, I think they were saying something upwards of $1 billion would be lost by the end of this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a very boring game aside from Tiger Woods.
SPARKS: Yes. As a role model, who`s he a role model for? But 50- year-old guys who watch Viagra ads.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I actually play golf, very badly.
Thank you, fabulous panel. You`re watching ISSUES on HLN.
END
