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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Professor Charged with Shooting Had Troubled Past
Aired February 15, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, outrage on campus. Terrifying new insight into the professor accused of killing three faculty members at the University of Alabama. Cops say this whole thing started when colleagues questioned her job performance. Now we`re learning this very same woman gunned down her brother more than two decades ago, and she was the prime suspect in an attempted mail bomb. What in the hell was she doing teaching?
Also, a porn star drops a baby bombshell in the Tiger Woods sex scandal. Adult film star Joslyn James now claims she was pregnant with Tiger`s baby, not once but twice. Abortions, miscarriages, toxic secrets. Will this put Elin over the edge? You don`t want to miss this.
Plus, Casey Anthony loses her lawyer. Fast-breaking developments tonight. A member of Casey`s legal team has dropped out of the case because of check fraud allegations. Wait, isn`t that what Casey`s accused of? What the heck is going on here? And how will this affect the trial?
ISSUES starts now.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight a college campus, an entire nation, in fact, in shock after police say a university professor opened fire on six colleagues and murdered three of them in cold blood. Forty-two-year-old Amy Bishop, that lady right there, charged with capital murder. She faces the death penalty.
Friday afternoon cops say Bishop, who taught neurobiology, went on a shooting rampage during a faculty meeting at the University of Alabama in Huntsville. Bishop was reportedly upset that she was going to lose her teaching gig.
Her husband said she might have gotten a, quote, "nasty-gram" from the higher-ups there saying she`d been denied tenure. Here`s what Amy Bishop herself said about her alleged shooting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, do you have anything to say? Do you know about what happened?
AMY BISHOP, ACCUSED SHOOTER: It didn`t happen. There`s no way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the people who died?
BISHOP: There`s no way. They`re still alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Guess what? It did happen. Those victims are not still alive. Those victims are dead.
Meanwhile, this isn`t the first time this odd-ball mother of four has been in big trouble.
1993 Amy Bishop and her husband grilled about the attempted mail bombing of a Harvard professor who was evaluating her work. And seven years before that, when Amy Bishop was just 19, she shot her 18-year-old brother to death. It was ruled an accident at the time. But now there are big questions about a possible cover-up. The case file is missing.
I want to know what you think about this very disturbing story. Give me a holler. The number: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to my extraordinary expert panel: Wendy Murphy, former Massachusetts prosecutor, author of "And Justice for Some" and professor at New England School of Law. Great to see you, as always, Wendy. Brenda Wade, a clinical psychologist and founder of DocWade.com. Brenda, you`re going to be working overtime tonight. We need you badly with this one. What a kook.
Marc Harrold, veteran police officer and attorney. Judge David Young, former Miami-Dade County judge and former assistant state attorney, who took to the bench and the airwaves as the host of his own syndicated court show, "Judge David Young." There he is, and there`s the show. We`re going to get his wisdom tonight.
But we begin with Donovan Slack, investigative reporter with the "Boston Globe."
Donovan, almost scared to ask, what is the very latest on this one?
DONOVAN SLACK, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, "BOSTON GLOBE": Well, you know, we`re still trying to put things together here. I mean, this is unfolding, you know, day by day.
Saturday we learned that she had shot her brother dead. Yesterday we learned that she was questioned and was a suspect in the bombing here at Harvard of a professor -- or I should say the attempted bombing. Today we`re just trying to go back and put some more pieces together. Who knows what`s next with this lady?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And she`s kooky and a weirdo. This is what people are saying. I`m not convicting her of anything except being an oddball, which apparently everybody is in relative agreement about that.
One of the professors killed in Bishop`s alleged shooting spree was colleague Maria Radlon (ph) Davis. Her stepdaughters appeared on ABC`s "Good Morning America." One of the girls had Amy Bishop for a teacher. Listen to this description.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA DAVIS, STEPDAUGHTER OF MARIA DAVIS: She would come -- you know, come to the class, and it would be a little unorganized. I remember always thinking, I`m not sitting in calculus or anything like that, you know, because of the organization. And she would start teaching. She would go rambling off about stuff, and a lot of the tests and stuff, you would have to study the books because what we went over in class was completely not was on the test a lot of times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brenda Wade, it`s obviously not funny, but we could all call ourselves disorganized. We could all say we ramble occasionally. But when somebody is disorganized and engages in rambling. And then their students say, well, the questions on the test make no sense. And then when you ask them about a rampage and they say it didn`t happen and those people are still alive when they`re dead, what does it say about this woman`s psychological makeup?
BRENDA WADE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, Jane, this is a lesson for all of us. There`s something to learn here. Clearly, this is a very disturbed person, but what was missed if there`s a pattern.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
WADE: And we all have to learn to look at patterns. The pattern started when she was 19. And I`ll tell you something, it probably started before that.
But this is a person who had this schizoid, probably borderline personality. She never quite fit in. She always had extreme reactions to situations, is my guess. Given the extremity of she killed her brother. And she never, as far as I know, received any sort of...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, yes.
WADE: She wasn`t held accountable; she didn`t receive treatment.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me bring Wendy Murphy in on this. You know, when I forget to pay a $24 bill because I move from one state to another, oh, my God, there`s records everywhere. It`s kept forever.
But this woman shoots her brother, OK, and then is a prime suspect in an attempted mail bombing, and there`s no record at all? If you check her criminal record it comes up blank. What`s the fairness in that?
WENDY MURPHY, AUTHOR, "AND JUSTICE FOR SOME": It`s outrageous and, you know, there`s so much to say about what went wrong in this case. But I`ll tell you this much: if you know the facts about what she did in the `86 shooting of her brother and the `93 mail bombing attempt, if you know the facts, you wouldn`t hire her if she tried to become a university professor, because you would know that she was dangerous. Not just nutty, dangerous.
And yet here`s one of the reasons she didn`t even have an arrest record. The mail bombing case in `93, you know, that`s a hard case to make. It`s hard to prove who did what. She was a key suspect for good reason. But they didn`t arrest her because it was impossible to prove that she did it.
But the `86 case...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
MURPHY: ... the reason she didn`t have an arrest record is because, when they brought her to the police station to book her, which would have given her an arrest record for homicide, somebody, apparently on behalf of the police chief, as has been reported, made a phone call, and the next thing you know she was being escorted out the back door.
Why? Well, some say it`s because her mother had political connections in the town. I don`t know. But I know this...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s get into this. Let`s get into that case. You`re from Boston. This happened in Boston. Amy Bishop, 19, shoots, kills her 18-year-old younger brother.
Now, here is what the current police chief has to say about that incident. Listen carefully. A lot of hints in here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF PAUL FRAZIER, BRAINTREE POLICE DEPARTMENT: She shot her brother in the chest, fled the home. Prior to fleeing the home she fired one more round from the shotgun. She fled down the street, pointed the weapon at a vehicle, trying to get that person to stop. The person drove by, and subsequently our officers found her and arrested her at that time by gunpoint.
She was brought into the police station. She was released without any charges being filed against her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why was she released? She fires more than one shot? You don`t have to be a neurobiologist to know that, when you fire more than one shot, it`s not likely an accident. She tries to carjack a vehicle at gunpoint, and they call that an accident?
Well, guess what? Friday`s campus massacre has blown this whole case wide open, and now there are allegations of a possible cover-up in the old case in Boston being denied by the police chief at the time. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN POLIO, FORMER POLICE CHIEF, BRAINTREE, MASSACHUSETTS: Reports were made, reports were submitted. Reports were required (ph) and rejected. Where they are, I don`t know. Cover-up? That is really a new word for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it shouldn`t be a new word for anybody that age. The word "cover-up`s" been around for a while.
HLN affiliate WCVB says the 23-year-old police report about Amy Bishop gunning down her brother and running away and trying to carjack, apparently, another car, according to the police chief anyway, has vanished. Our affiliate also learned Bishop`s mom served at the time on the personnel board, OK?
So I`ve got to ask you, Donovan Slack -- you`re the investigative reporter -- could this accident with a missing file turn into a major corruption scandal now?
SLACK: I mean, I don`t know if it`s going to turn into a corruption - - I can tell you that they`ve certainly opened an investigation into what happened to the records. It`s very unusual that a police report suddenly just disappears, and they say it`s been gone for 20 years.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s very unusual.
Anita, Alabama, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: ... talking about what I was thinking. First of all, I`m from Alabama. My sons go to the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. And I was wondering, don`t these colleges do a very in-depth, you know, background check on their teachers, of all people?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Marc Harrold, you`re the veteran police officer. I mean, how could they not know about this even if it wasn`t on a criminal file? Couldn`t they hire somebody to check up on their background? Wouldn`t this come up on a Google search?
MARC HARROLD, VETERAN POLICE OFFICER AND ATTORNEY: Yes, you -- well, you would think so. I mean, these types of professional teachers are pretty defined fields, narrow fields, and everybody seems to know everybody.
How this slipped by, how people didn`t know about this with the type of crime it was, fleeing the scene and this sort of thing. If there`s no police report and her mother had some pull, and they made the records disappear, maybe there was no way they could find it. It might not have been on Google.
But boy, you have to wonder, as someone who`s served on a faculty, how they didn`t at least get wind of this and look into it further. But something got missed here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We always catch it after the tragedy, and that`s not what we need as a society. We need to catch these things before.
Everybody, stay right where you are. We are going deep into this professor`s dark past, and we`re taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Plus, just when you thought it could be winding down, nothing to see here, a new bombshell rocks the Tiger Woods sex scandal. This time a porn star claims she was impregnated by Tiger, not once but twice. We will talk to this woman`s famous attorney and get the jaw-dropping details.
But first, bullets rip through a college campus. Cops say a female biology professor with a very bizarre past and a kooky reputation went on a deadly rampage over her tenure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She didn`t seem like, you know, she would do anything like this. She wasn`t, you know, I don`t want to say crazy, but it wasn`t anything like that. She didn`t seem that way. She was -- she was a teacher, you know? You went to class and asked questions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not at all. Not at all. She made jokes and everything. She was a normal -- normal professor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, do you have anything to say? Do you know about what happened?
BISHOP: It didn`t happen. There`s no way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the people who died?
BISHOP: There`s no way. They`re still alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this something you did?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. I think that`s one of the most bizarre perp-walk interviews we`ve ever witnessed here at ISSUES. So strange we couldn`t believe our ears. Cops say this woman massacred three colleagues, including a wonderful step-mom, while wounding three others.
Listen to this from ABC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: She always made sure she gave us a hug and gave us a kiss and kept telling us that she loved us. That was her normal routine. I saw her the day before the incident. And that was her normal routine. She gave me a hug, told me she loved me. She never would let you leave without doing that. She -- she -- yes. She`s a very loving person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. That`s a relative talking about one of the murdered victims, even though the suspect says it didn`t happen, they`re all alive.
Linda, Missouri, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: Yes, hello. I`m calling to let you know I wouldn`t miss your show for the world. I watch it every night.
To get to the professor, I believe that the statement she just made about it didn`t happen, she didn`t shoot anyone, they`re not dead, I think she`s setting herself up for an insanity defense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, brilliant. Brilliant observation. Judge David Young, you probably see that all the time.
JUDGE DAVID YOUNG, "JUDGE DAVID YOUNG SHOW": Yes. She`s not a dummy. That`s -- I can tell you that for sure.
But you know, you really have to lay the blame of this whole thing on the University of Alabama. If they had done their homework, they would have inquired at the people at Harvard and said, "Hey, have you ever heard of this person? They claim that she worked for you." And they would have known, then, that she was a suspect in a bombing, an alleged bombing.
Then someone, I`m sure, would have said to them, Jane, "Wait a minute, I think she may have killed her brother." So for them not to have followed any leads, they get an "F."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think you`re making a very good point. It`s not just a criminal record. I mean, most people don`t have a criminal record, but corporations check up on them before they hire them, and if they find something strange, they don`t hire them.
That brings me to my big issue. Amy Bishop had a reputation as a weirdo and a nerd, but were there signs she was a possible campus killer? Tonight`s big issue: are we coddling campus kooks? And that`s hard to say, but I`ll say it again: are we coddling campus kooks?
The Virginia Tech massacre: Cho Seung-Hui killed himself after shooting 32 people and wounding 25 others. Seung-Hui was involved in at least three stalking incidents at Virginia Tech. In eighth grade, he wrote about wanting to repeat Columbine.
Raymond Clark, an animal laboratory technician at Yale University, is charged in the murder of grad student and animal researcher Annie Le. Clark has been described as a, quote, "overbearing control freak." An ex also claimed he stalked her after a troubled relationship ended.
So my question, Wendy Murphy: have campuses become a sort of sick safe haven for troubled, kooky, overbearing, weirdo people? They can walk around in their white coats and keep their heads in some laboratory cage and nobody questions them. Would these weirdo freaks survive in a corporate environment?
MURPHY: Well, it`s an interesting question. Academics and professor types, I guess, are often expected to be a little weird. It comes with a lot of gray matter, I think, or at least we think that way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
MURPHY: The fine line between dangerousness and weird isn`t that difficult to figure out sometimes.
You know, one of the issues that we should talk about on another show for a long time is the fact that one of the biggest issues that encourages school officials to turn a blind eye to high-risk factors on campus is that they actually have better liability protection if they turn a blind eye.
In other words, the more they know, the more they pay attention, the more they notice the red flags, the greater the risks they could be held liable when something bad happens. We have to really turn our laws around and create a better incentive for campuses to ferret out those high-risk cases. Then I think we would begin to see a reduction in these kinds of violence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And how about getting rid of tenure entirely? I know we should get rid of it for public schools, because it`s ruining our public school system and allowing failing teachers to remain in place. But why not just get rid of tenure and just say, if you do a good job, you get to stay? If you don`t, you don`t get to stay. I mean, wouldn`t that be a smarter way of doing this, Brenda Wade?
WADE: You know, Jane, I don`t want to lump all the good professors who are out there in with the people who have earned tenure or haven`t earned tenure.
But I do want to say that, in a case where someone has made threats in the past, someone has been violent in the past, that`s our best predictor that that person is dangerous, and that`s what we have to pay attention to.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Stay right there. Is Casey Anthony`s dream team falling apart? One of her lawyers quits because of his own serious legal problems. What does it mean for her case?
And straight ahead, more on the University of Alabama shooting. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I`m a former investigator. Guns don`t go off accidentally and then go off again accidentally. This isn`t just adding up.
Apparently, there`s just an entry in -- you know, the station log. They can`t find a police report. What happened to the paperwork? Someone is shot and killed. There has to be an autopsy report, a police report. Nobody can find the paperwork right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was HLN`s law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks, talking about the 1986 incident where Amy Bishop shot and killed her younger brother. Now she`s accused of a massacre at the University of Alabama.
Phone lines lighting up.
Cindy, Colorado, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: Yes, I was wondering. Whenever I`ve gotten a job at a gas station or convenience store, one of the things we did when we got those kind of jobs is fill out a little psychological profile that let them know if we were thieves or whatever. I`m wondering wouldn`t a university have a similar form during the application process?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excellent question. Marc Harrold, you`d think so.
HARROLD: Yes, you would think so. It just depends on how they actually do their hiring, how centralized it is, how university-wide it is, department focused. But you would think they`d have something like that. For my experience I don`t believe that they always do, just depending on -- I think there`s some fear that they`re going to weed out people who have different ideologies, a psychiatric type or psychological things, based on what they think about the subject matter.
But you would definitely think there would be some factor that would flag them as to this woman`s history. Seems like she had a real web of misery and aggression in her past. And the paperwork is just not there. And, you know, it`s a shame, but somebody really fell down.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Somebody dropped the ball.
HARROLD: Yes, absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, clearly. If she -- if she killed her brother, there`s got to be at least one news story about that somewhere in Massachusetts. Again, a Google search.
One of the mysteries unraveling about the victims of this massacre is how the alleged shooter, Amy Bishop, knew who to target. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: From my understanding, Dr. Bishop was able to find out who actually voted for her and who didn`t, and I do think that played a big part in the incident that happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Judge David Young, that`s scary. I mean, should this granting or not granting of tenure process become more secretive, given that obviously, cops feel she decided anybody who voted against her was her mortal enemy and should be gunned down?
YOUNG: Well, you know, every university does tenure a little bit differently. I was familiar, because I was very involved in Tulane University, and my godson is at Yale University, who just got tenure.
But the bottom line here is the university messed up. They were totally, blanketly, incompetent. They could have weeded her out from day one. She never should have gotten a job there. If they would have done any due diligence, they would have seen what a whack job this woman was.
Listen, once you kill somebody, you`re never the same again, and she clearly killed her brother. Now the university should be worried about being civilly liable for the death of those three people, because if they have done their job, then they would never have given this whack job a job they called professor, then this never would never happened. They gave her the job. They didn`t do what they were supposed to do, and they are going to be sued for a lot a lot, a lot of money.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Wendy Murphy, ten seconds on that thought. Maybe lawsuits here.
MURPHY: Yes. Here is my ten-second response. I`ll take the case, please.
You know, look, she not only had a history of violence. She had a history of being lethally violent toward people with whom she had disagreements. If you`re going to bring somebody like that onto a university campus, people disagree all the time on campus. That`s part of the learning process. She was not appropriate to teach at a university.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got to leave it right there. Fabulous panel, thank you so much.
Stunning new reports in the Tiger Woods` scandal. One of his alleged mistresses claims he got her pregnant, not once but twice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A porn star drops a baby bombshell in the Tiger Woods sex scandal. Adult film star, Joslyn James, now claims she was pregnant with Tiger`s baby not once but twice. Abortions, miscarriages, toxic secrets -- will this put Elin over the edge? You don`t want to miss this.
Plus, Casey Anthony loses her lawyer. Fast-breaking developments tonight; a member of Casey`s legal team has dropped out of the case because of check fraud allegations. Wait. Isn`t that what Casey`s accused of? What the heck is going on here and how will this affect the trial?
Tonight, could there be a new low in the Tiger Woods` sex scandal? Just when we thought it was dying down, we see this. "Tiger Baby Shock": The screaming headline on the cover of today`s "New York Post".
Porn star Joslyn James claims Tiger impregnated her twice during their alleged three-year affair. She says both times she was pregnant at the same time as Tiger`s wife, Elin. Listen to this from "Inside Edition".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSLYN JAMES, ALLEGED TIGER WOODS MISTRESS: The first one was when she was pregnant with Sam and the second one was when she was pregnant with Charlie.
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": How did you tell him?
JAMES: I didn`t tell him.
MORET: Why?
JAMES: Actually the day that I was going to tell him, I ended up having a miscarriage.
MORET: And he never knew?
JAMES: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: As you just heard, Joslyn says she had a miscarriage with the first baby. She says she aborted her next pregnancy.
Here is Joslyn earlier this month sharing personal details about Tiger at a news conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES: I was in love with Tiger, and because of what he said to me and the length of time that we spent together and how long we were together, I believed that he loved me, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So why didn`t she tell Tiger about the alleged pregnancies? You will hear Joslyn`s tearful explanations in a moment.
Now to my fabulous expert panel: I`d like to welcome back Judge David Young; also joining me criminal defense attorney Darren Kavinoky, who`s also an addiction interventionist -- very good for this evening, that`s for sure; and Lisa Guerrero, special correspondent for "Inside Edition" which broke the pregnancy story, great to see you Lisa.
But I want to start with renowned attorney Gloria Allred who is representing Joslyn James whose real name is Veronica. Gloria great to have you on the show again.
GLORIA ALLRED, LAWYER FOR JOSLYN JAMES: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joslyn, a.k.a. veronica, held a news conference with you almost two weeks ago and didn`t say anything about allegedly getting pregnant by Tiger. Why is she coming out with this bombshell now?
ALLRED: Well, first of all, she gave up the porn business at the request of Tiger Woods according to Veronica and then she had to go into hiding when the Thanksgiving scandal broke because she didn`t want to talk to the press. Finally she came out of hiding when they put her photo on a golf ball and she felt that that was an issue involving violence against women because golfers would be taking a swing at the face of a woman, namely hers. And she felt that she just really couldn`t stay silent anymore and she wanted to come out and say that that is wrong. And so now she`s not going to stay silent anymore. She is going to tell her story.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Joslyn claims she was carrying Tiger`s child in 2007 but never told him. Here she is on "Inside Edition".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORET: Did part of the you want to tell him?
JAMES: Yes. But after I lost the baby, I didn`t -- I just didn`t want to talk about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joslyn says she became pregnant with Tiger`s child a second time but this time she had an abortion. That was about a year ago. Once again, she says she did not tell Tiger. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES: Elin was pregnant with Charlie at that time, and -- sorry -- I just didn`t want to ruin anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Lisa, you broke this story. I have to ask you, first of all, just get it out of the way, was she paid to do this interview.
LISA GUERRERO, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": First of all for "Inside Edition" we don`t talk about how we get our sources and the arrangements that we make for any kind interviews at all. Nothing should be read into that. We just don`t discuss that at all on "Inside Edition".
She did however come across as very credible. She discussed her relationship which she said spanned three years from 2006 to 2009 and that she was pregnant twice. The first time she miscarried as you said, Jane, the second time she had an abortion.
And what she told us she really didn`t want to upset the apple cart. Things were going well with Tiger. She enjoyed the relationship with him and she didn`t want to upset Elin. She didn`t want to take the chance of Tiger having -- potentially breaking up with her.
So I think from her perspective, from what she told us, she just didn`t want to upset Tiger and didn`t want anything to happen.
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hang on one second. Forgive me, Jane. I have to jump in on this. It seems disingenuous that somebody would at one point not want to ruin anything and then would have no reluctance whatsoever to jump in now after Tiger has done his time and been released from the sex addiction rehab and is presumably working very hard to try and piece his life back together.
It seems an awful time to -- the timing just seems horrible and very disrespectful to both Tiger and Elin.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s let Gloria Allred respond to that since she`s Joslyn`s attorney.
ALLRED: Well, there`s no good time to talk about this and there`s no bad time to talk about this. The point is she has been silent for a long time. She`s been hiding. The press have been trying to find her.
She just can`t stay in hiding for the rest of her life. She needs to come out. She needs to break her silence and tell the truth as she knows it about their relationship and what she was doing to try to protect him for a long time.
Unfortunately, I don`t see Tiger trying to protect her at all and now she`s going to speak out. And, you know what? She had a relationship with him. We have over 100 texts to substantiate that relationship.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Have you seen those texts?
ALLRED: Pardon me?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Have you seen those texts?
ALLRED: Of course. I`ve seen every single one of those texts, and actually there were thousands of texts but we have been able to see more than 100 -- I believe more than 120 of them.
So we know there was a relationship plus we have other evidence of it. She knew her role in his life, and she felt that he was in love with her, that she was the only one other than his wife. She was in love with him. In a way she is still in love with him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What?
ALLRED: And there`s no reason why she shouldn`t tell her story.
KAVINOKY: But she really doesn`t have to tell her story and if she`s really in love with him, then this -- shouldn`t this really be a private matter that`s dealt with between Tiger and her if at all?
ALLRED: Let me tell you this, let me say something, Darren, that I want to stand up for her. If, in fact, she was unaware that there were allegedly 14 other women or however many there are, it`s hard to keep track. I have a scorecard somewhere but I forgot to bring it to the set.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, that is liable to make any woman very angry. So there is emotion here. Just because somebody was a porn star doesn`t mean they`re not a human being and doesn`t shed tears.
KAVINOKY: No, of course. Of course, but this story had in a sense -- but this is had already in a sense died a quiet death. Tiger -- all of this relates to transgressions that if they happened at all happened at a time in the distant past now. There`s really no compelling reason why this needs to be brought forward today.
JUDGE DAVID YOUNG, FORMER MIAMI-DADE COUNTY JUDGE: Can I interject for just one second?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on one second. Let Gloria answer that.
ALLRED: I want to say that, unfortunately, Tiger betrayed her. He was very, very jealous of her being in adult films. He was jealous of the fact she would be with others in the film even though she had no emotion for them. It was a job as far as she was concerned. And he wanted her to give that up because he wanted to be the only one for her. And he led her to believe, according to her, that she was the only one for him other than his wife.
So now she`s been totally betrayed and she has a right to speak out and to tell her story and there`s no reason why she should have to live in silence. He knows what the relationship was. She knows what the relationship was. And I`m proud of her that she has the courage to speak out.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Joslyn says her affair with Tiger lasted from 2006 to 2009. She says Tiger would send her as many as 30 texts a day.
Here are just a few of the alleged texts. "Baby, I`m not going anywhere or doing anything. You please me like no other has or ever will. I`m not losing that."
And, get this one, allegedly from Tiger, "Great thing is we have a lifetime of this," end quote.
Joslyn is the second porn star or former porn star to claim she slept with Tiger. Holly Sampson claims she and the golfer took a romp at a bachelor party.
It`s safe to say that Tiger -- if any of this is true -- sought out a particular type of woman; similar look, similar style. But what concerns me, Lisa Guerrero, is the issue of protection or lack thereof which relates to the subject of pregnancy.
GUERRERO: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Apparently she told "Inside Edition" -- well, you tell us. What did she tell you about protection or lack thereof?
GUERRERO: Yes. She told our Jim Moret that they did not use protection at all, that he never discussed it with her. It just kind of go -- went without saying that they were not going to use any kind of protection. So obviously that`s alarming on a lot levels. You worry about Elin, you worry about Elin`s kids.
But apparently that was something that they never discussed. It just never happened and they never did use protection.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Judge David Young, quickly. That`s a double irresponsibility if it`s true. And we know why.
JUDGE DAVID YOUNG: It is not only irresponsible, it is absolutely wrong. And but -- you know my thing is, Jane, who cares about Tiger Woods? He`s over. He`s yesterday`s news. Let`s move on to more pressing issues.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, I disagree. This is a guy who made -- oh, how many hundreds of millions in endorsement deals?
DARREN KAVINOKY: But he doesn`t --
YOUNG: And he`s coming back.
KAVINOKY: I don`t -- I don`t care if he`s -
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- as a family man.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, then, let him come back --
ALLRED: Why do you think it`s only about Tiger Woods? What about the woman that he has hurt?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.
ALLRED: Why does she not matter to you? Why does only Tiger matter to you? Women count.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Women do count, Judge.
YOUNG: Yes, women absolutely count but the story does not count --
KAVINOKY: And it`s part of the same war on men.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got to leave it right there.
YOUNG: -- it`s immaterial, it has nothing to do with our lives.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re running out of time, seriously.
We`ve got jaw dropping developments in the Casey Anthony case. One of her high-powered lawyers has called it quits. You will not believe what he is allegedly in trouble for and we`re taking your calls.
Thank you, Gloria, and the gang. Lisa Guerrero, for joining us on that last story and we`re up with Casey Anthony next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Seismic developments in the Casey Anthony murder trial. Is her defense team falling apart? Casey`s legal dream team is losing one of its hardest hitting attorneys.
Todd Macaluso has been accused of check fraud and he`s off the case. He`s the lawyer who presented the linchpin of Casey`s defense. He insisted Casey could not have murdered her own daughter. Why? He says little Caylee`s body was dumped in a field while Casey was already sitting behind bars.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD MACALUSO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The body or the remains of Caylee Anthony were placed there after Casey Anthony was locked up in the Orange County Correctional facility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now the California Bar Association is accusing that defense attorney of misappropriation of clients` funds via checks, about $100,000 worth. Kind of sounds familiar to me, oh, yes, I get it. I remember now. Just a few weeks ago his client, Casey, pled guilty to check fraud. How ironic is that?
Casey admitted to swiping a friend`s checkbook and stealing more than $600. She was caught on camera during a Target shopping spree stocking up on essentials -- food, beer, clothing, bras. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I want to let everyone know that I`m sorry for what I did. I take complete and full responsibility for my actions and I`d like to sincerely apologize to Amy. I wish I`d been a better friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now that Casey`s dream team is down one man, will this be a huge setback for her defense? How will it affect her murder trial?
Plus, a massive dump of brand-new evidence is going to be released tomorrow morning. What will it contain?
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel: former Miami-Dade County Judge, Judge David Young; criminal defense attorney and legal analyst for "The Insider", Darren Kavinoky, also known as the "Voice of Reason"; and WDBO radio reporter Nikki Pierce. Nikki, you`ve been tracking this case. What is the very latest?
NIKKI PIERCE, RADIO REPORTER, WDBO: Well, it looks like Todd Macaluso is indeed off the case because he has to deal with legal troubles of his own in California. As you said he`s been accused of misappropriation of funds and spending client money to the tune of over $200,000.
He -- yes and he has to face an alternative discipline program to deal with these counts. He`s not going to be able to practice law during that time. He announced to Jose Baez and the rest of the defense team last week and Jose Baez put out a press release yesterday, which was Sunday, to that effect to let us know that he is off the case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fascinating.
Now, Darren Kavinoky, we still got -- wow, a bunch of heavy hitters. Do you think this is going to hurt either the credibility of the defense team with these charges? It`s very serious charges against this guy.
KAVINOKY: Yes, this is something that shouldn`t be admitted or discussed in the trial at all, although it certainly can impact the hearts and minds of the potential jurors in the court of public opinion and that`s always a concern in a high-profile case.
In looking at the materials that are available publicly on the California State Bar Web site, I do have to jump to my colleague`s defense in at least a couple of areas. First of all this is conduct that appears to have happened, if at all, some time ago, several years ago, in fact and relates primarily to what would appear to be the mismanagement of his client trust account as opposed to out and out thievery and of course, he does cite to several factors that were going on at the time including the sudden unexpected death of his brother who passed as the result of a heart attack at the age of 44 and then, of course, leaving Todd to take care of their elderly and ailing mother.
So there appears to be a number of extenuating circumstances --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok.
KAVINOKY: -- and that`s probably why he was afforded the opportunity to do this alternative program.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, if he ever needs an attorney, you should be his attorney, because you just did -- you did him a good.
All right, this attorney, Todd Macaluso, was spearheading the idea that somebody else killed little Caylee. The defense team pointed the finger at meter reader Roy Kronk and he`s the guy who cops say is the Good Samaritan who discovered little Caylee`s body and made this chilling 911 call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROY KRONK, METER READER: I`m in a holding area down by the school. I need you like now. I just found a human skull.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now the defense team says the duct tape found around little Caylee`s mouth could implicate Roy Kronk in the murder. Both the defense and the prosecution will question Roy Kronk`s ex- wife this month. Are you sitting down? She says Kronk was abusive and used duct tape to restrain her.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JILL KERLEY, ROY KRONK`S EX-WIFE: He duct taped my hands one time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you learned that Roy Kronk had found the remains of Caylee Anthony, what went through your mind?
KERLEY: That he had done it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Done it, meaning?
KERLEY: He probably was the one that murdered Caylee Anthony or had something to do with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, cops say he was a Good Samaritan who followed his gut and that this is one of the reasons why people are not Good Samaritans because they end up getting dragged into cases.
Nikki, didn`t investigators already connect the tape found on Caylee`s skull to a piece of duct tape stuck to a gas can in the Anthony garage?
PIERCE: They did say they were the same manufacturer and the striations where the duct tape was pulled apart do match but they don`t have a conclusive match just yet. Not that they`ve released anyway.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Judge David Young, I mean, this guy, he`s a meter reader. Yes, it`s odd that he insisted that cops look at this very area in the summer and then he`s the same one who discovers the body months later but is this really fair?
YOUNG: Well, you know, you really can`t take anything for granted from an ex-wife. There`s always some bitterness. Of course, she would love nothing else than to se her ex-husband get involved in this situation.
But I think we can go back to the first point about the lawyer that was -- that had the money problems. To say that a death which is very, very sad -- of a brother would make you steal clients` trust funds that`s a bunch of malarkey.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You guys can debate it after the break. Is the dream team in disarray? More Casey.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was an orchestration between the Orange County sheriff`s department and the Orange County department of corrections personnel and the medical personnel to place Ms. Anthony in front of a TV for 30 to 45 minutes while Channel 6 News was unfolding the story that the body of a child had been found.
Your honor, this is cruel, this is inhumane. This is illegal. This is unconstitutional. This defies any common sense of what law enforcement should or should not do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s in an aggressive attorney, but now he is off the Casey Anthony murder case. We`re talking about Todd Macaluso. He basically had to resign because he`s dealing with a very serious ethical matter, vis-a-vis, the California State Bar.
There he was saying, hey, they had no right to videotape Casey Anthony when she started sobbing hysterically when she saw a news report that they had found a body long before they identified it as her daughter`s remains. A lot of people thought that was incriminating.
Phone lines lighting up. Fran, New Jersey. Your question or thought, ma`am?
FRAN, NEW JERSEY (via telephone): Yes. I had a question regarding the duct tape. I wanted to know when the father tried to commit suicide it was just around the time when they found the heart-shaped sticker on the duct tape. I wanted to know if you thought it could be the grandfather realized that he gave little Caylee those stickers and then knew that it was Casey at that time?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think that that`s a very insightful question. Even if she hadn`t gotten the stickers from her father there are moments in time, Darren Kavinoky, where the denial factor wears off for the parental units, as it were, and --
KAVINOKY: It`s got to be incredibly difficult for Casey`s father, first of all, to be mourning the loss of a grandchild and then, of course, going through this legal process where his daughter`s now playing for the highest stakes around. And so peering into his mind to try and determine what it was that sent him over the edge could be difficult. I can`t even imagine what it would be like to walk in those shoes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s my big issue tonight. Slow-mo justice; this saga is dragging on and on and on. When will it finally go to trial? I know I`d like to see it go to trial. I know everybody who tracks it in our audience wants it to go to trial.
Guess what, they`re says prosecutors are now proposing a May 2nd, 2011 trial date, more than a year away. Judge David Young, that is -- it just makes me want to pull out my hair in tufts.
(CROSSTALK)
YOUNG: Look what happened to me, Jane. I tried that. You know, I understand it takes a long time to try a murder case. You want to dot all the I`s and cross all the t`s. But May of 2011, does more than hurt the system than anything I can think of, Jane. Everything has basically been done. Interview the last several witnesses and get this case to trial now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it`s not going to go to trial now. This is what irritates me.
Nikki, you`re the reporter covering it. Are the other reporters down there who have to track this every day just really frustrated?
PIERCE: To an extent, yes, it is surprising that it got pushed back so far. But there so many intricacies to this case and so many we don`t even know about, Jane, that it is driving on.
KAVINOKY: Hang on. I`m sorry -- quick objection. When it comes to justice, you have to get it done right, not get it done quickly. That`s why --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to have to stay that order. You`re watching ISSUES.
END
